Positively Gam is sponsored by Vasiline. See how they are working towards equitable skin care for all at vasiline dot com. In this episode, I speak with qualified specialists. If you wish to explore any treatments or products mentioned, please consult with your doctor first. At the end of the day, though, I think I really recognize that with my age, I really need to be paying more attention to my skin because I think people would be surprised how little attention
I paid to my skin. What's up, everybody, I'm Gammy and this is positively gam. Every week I have raw, in depth conversation with inspirational people pushing for change or everything from aging, relationships, politics, wellness, to the current issues facing the black community. In this episode, we're going to be discussing skincare because that is one of the top questions that I could ask all the time, my skincare routine and my exercise routine, from beauty routines to what
happens to our skin as we age. That's what we're gonna talk about today. With us, we have Dr Heather Woolery Lloyd. Dr Woolery Lloyd is a board certified dermatologist and a member of the American College of Lifestyle. She currently serves as director of the Skin of Color Division for the University of Miami. Welcome, Dr Heather, thank you, Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely we are
glad to have you on the show. Also with us is Dr Alicia Barba, a Miami based Board certified dermatologist who is a recognized authority on cosmetic dermatology and skin treatments. She is often asked to share her expert piece to the Spanish speaking media about the latest advancements in skincare. Welcome to Positively dam ladies. Thank you. So, I think I want to start out by just asking how does one determine what type of skin they have, whether they have oily skin or dry skin. How do you go
about making that determination. I'm a full time working dermatologist, I'm in the trenches, so skincare is something that I do every day, and often times I find that patients know more or less what kind of skin they have. How about you, Yeah, I think you're right. I think most people do know that they have dry skin or
sensitive skin or oily ethny prone skin. But in general, I think people are pretty well versed on that yeah, I think I pretty much have combination skin and more probably towards the oily side, which is great because I feel like when you're on the oily side, you can use more products because we don't have to worry when you're on the oath side. As derms, then we're just much more concerned is she gonna get irritated? Is she gonna have Like in darker skin types, if you get irritated,
you can get something called post inflammatory hyperpigmentation. So that's something that I love when my patients say they're normal to oily, right, But it's much easier, especially when we're treating acne and teenagers. The worst type of teenager, the worst type of skin and a teenager is a teenager or or a woman even with adult acne that's already
starting with dry skin. I find that for me that's the most challenging because acne medicines, for the most part, tend to dry the skin, and if you're already starting with dry skin, it's gonna be really hard for me to give you some of the best active mudians and prescriptions at skin care products and to treat your acne if you're already starting with a dry base, and even when I'm treating hyperpigmentation, same thing. The higher the ingredients,
the more active ingredients, the more aggressive the regimen. Generally speaking, the more irritating, the more drying. You're lucky you eat now lifestyle. Does your lifestyle affect you're the type of skin that you have, or would it affect the type of skin routine you develop for yourself? Yes, definitely, lifestyle plays a huge role. As you mentioned, I'm board certified also in the specialty of lifestyle medicine, which is a specialty that focuses on lifestyle changes to treat and prevent
chronic diseases. So you might think, what does that have to do with dermatology. It has everything to do with dermatology, because what's good for our body is good for our skin. So all the things we know we're supposed to do. We're supposed to eat lots of fruits and vegetables, were supposed to sleep well, right, get enough rest, and get enough good quality and quantity sleep. We're supposed to, you know, not be too stressed out. Stress has a tremendous impact
on our skin. I definitely felt during the beginning of quarantine, I thought my skin change. I called Alicia, I said, you have to fix this. So there's so many lifestyle factors that influence our skin, and studies show that. So their studies that show people who eat more fruits and vegetables have younger looking skin. Their studies that show that if you live in a more polluted city, you have more wrinkles and more brown spots. So all of these
things play a role. And you know, never underestimate the impact of lifestyle on your skin. And lifestyle is absolutely something that I take into consideration when I'm recommending skincare and when I'm recommending treatments. And so the very first question that I will ask a patient is what are you doing that exposes you to the sun. Are you a voter? Are you a golfer? Are you playing tennis?
Are you outdoors with the kids at the park. Do you still have little kids where you have to be outdoors, you know, watching them swim. And the reason for this is because sun exposure is going to determine or how much sun exposure is going to determine what skincare active ingredients I'm gonna recommend, and what procedures I'm going to recommend or stay away from right because a lot of these ingredients and treatments do not go hand in hand
with sun exposure. And so if it is somebody who's actively getting sunshine, I am going to stay away from some active ingredients and I am probably not going to recommend laser treatments for example. So lifestyle even determines what I can or can't do. Okay, so the listeners can't see me, but you guys can see my face as you're talking about the sun because I love the sun. Okay, I love the sun, but I don't I don't feel like it's something that I wouldn't say that my lifestyle
has me out in the sun all the time. It's just when I go on vacation, I don't feel like I'm on vacation unless I'm at the beach. That's number one, and I wanna be Yeah, I mean I gotta have I gotta have the beach. I gotta have the waves, the surf, a pool. If I don't have that, then I'm not on vacation. We all Miami, So when you know I live here for a reason, Alicia lives here for a reason. You can love the sun. You have
to wear sunscreen wear sunscreen, wear a hat. You know, as long as you really protect your skin, you can you know, you can't get excessive amounts of sun, but you don't have to hide. You want to live your life, but you have to protect yourself. And what I'm curious about is when you say you love the sun, do you love the sun where you actually have to go out there in a bathing suit to get a tan and feel the sun on your body on a weekly basis, on a monthly basis, once of one vacation out of
the year. So what where are we on that? Yeah, it's well because I I'm laughing because I know I'm wrong. I know I'm dead as wrong, but I have, Um, I have a pool, so I'm I spend my summer at the pool, at the pool, like swimming or actually on a lounge chair getting last you want to have, you want to get a little color, and you just love the feeling of the your skin. Yes, And it's just been I would say in this past year that I've been like, Okay, for real, you're sixty seven. Your
skin cannot absolutely cannot handle this anymore. Because I have noticed that I have some dark spots on my forehead on my cheeks. I don't know if it's sun damage or if it's just age. It's both. It's the age, it's the accumulation of you know, all those years in the sun that presents at a certain age. So I always say it's both. I do wear sunscreen, though it's not I'm not out there just I mean, like when I was younger, I would just put on a sun
tanning lotion. Yeah. I love this conversation because this is one that I have with my patients every single day in Miami, which would probably be the same conversation that I would have in California, in a state where there is sunshine around us year around, which is why we
live in these amazing cities, right. So this is it is not uncommon for a patient to come to see me with brown spots, who loves the sun, likes to be outdoors, is on a boat, plays tennis, plays golf, and is getting active sun in the setting of complaining about dark spots, and that's my job really hard. I say, it's like the equivalent of you want to be skinny, and you're gonna work out three hours a day, but you're gonna go home and you're gonna eat the whole
box of doughnuts? Are you gonna be skinny? Right? And you know, my patients always last when I give them that analogy, But my hands are tied. You're gonna have to You're gonna have to decide who you want to be.
You know who you want to be, you know, gorgeous gam with you know, more uniform skin or are you going to say, you know what I need to do, what I need to do in order to feel good, relieve some of the stress, because especially now during COVID, a lot of us it's what we've done, right with those of us that are fortunate to live in a city that has to beat your pool and we can go and enjoy these things and get a little sunshine. And so I always say, you're gonna have to decide, Yeah,
I will add. I am like you. I do being outside. I walk outside every single day for at least an hour in Florida sun now. But I do modify so I go early in the morning, so I try to finish my walk before eight am. That's ideal. I wear sunscreen and a huge visor, and I take roots that are shaded so you can spend out time outside and protect yourself. But if you need it, because you need it, I get it. Really make a huge effort. You if you're at home, cover yourself in sunscreen. It might not
you know, might not look great. You might have that white gray cast all over your face. But cover your face and sunscreen so you don't get one drop of sun on your face. Wear a huge hat, sit under an umbrella, do all of those things so you still get that experience of being outside without you know, you can't escape it completely, but at least minimize it. I can do that. So is it is the face the main part of the body that I need to be
really really worried about. As far as protection from the sun. I always tell my patients, were sunscreen every day on your face. My patients are gonna I'm not gonna be outside. Yes, I'm gonna tell you two reasons why. One reason is because it becomes a habit. So just like everything in life, you know, if you put on sunscreen every single day, then when you really need it, you're already gonna have it on. So that's one reason. But also we know that UV a so we have different types of ultraviolet
light from the sun. UV A and UVB uv A can penetrate windows. So they're actually pictures of people who worked next to a window their entire life, and one half of their faces completely wrinkled and the other half is completely normal. And so I do recommend a broad spectrum. It could be moisturized of a sunscreen as long as SPF thirty. You should wear a sunscreen every single day. It has to become a habit. It's like real estate, location and skincare. For me, it's sunscreen on your face
every day. Okay, So SPF thirty is the number that we're looking for. Okay, got it. I want to talk a little bit. I think about how often do you think the average person should exfoliate? But how do you answer that question? There's so many different skin type and age and everything that's involved. How how do you determine that? I always say, if you have maybe once weekly for normal to dry, and if you're on the normal to
dry side, your exfoliator might be something more gentle. It might not be you know, a really strong likecholic or a really strong retinal. Might be something else, maybe a mild mechanical ex foll leader. And if you're normal to oily. You can get a little more aggressive with that. You're exfoliating every time you bathe, that's right, and so there's that, you know, also to take into consideration. And what are
you using when you bathe? You know, are you just using your hand, are using a washcloth, are using something like a mitten. That's a little rougher. So I agree it can be confusing. And so for the most part, I tell patients once a week is fine. In the summertime, you know, maybe twice a week is okay, especially if you're going to go to the beach and you know, you know, I want to make sure that everything is glowy.
And but always if you're gonna remember one thing of this conversation is every time you exfoliate, you must moisturize. Exact system does not happen without moisturization. Like you need to put all of those things that you took off in addition to your skin cells there the dead skin cells. Good things came off, like your proteins and your lips and natural moisturizer. So you need to make sure that you're putting that back. Not all care is created equal.
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Talk to me a little bit about retinal. That is a term that kind of is a little scary to be nothing to be scared of. Retinal is just and first of all, so retinal is the name that's in our body is retinic acid. It's a hormone that we all have in our skin, so it's not some foreign chemical. It's something that our body makes. But you can apply it topically over the counter. It's retinal. But what do they do What's the most important thing? So the most
important thing is they increased cell turnover rate. So um, they exfoliate, just like Dr Barbara was mentioned to help foliate if you have pigmentation. They can help with pigmentation. They in multiple clinical studies improve fine lines and wrinkles. So if you if your concern is fine lines, you
should be on a retinoid daily. Usually I don't know what aged you start your retinoids your patients God fifteen sixteen because we use it for acting so as so as a retinoid a product that you would typically use at night, Yes, so simple regiment, clans serum, sunscreen in the morning, clans retinoid, and a great moisturizer at night, and any other anti aging that if you have hyperpigmentation,
some other things you might want to add in at night. Okay, So this is the other thing that I did that I think really made a huge difference in my appearance. And this is something that is typical I think mainly for black women, and it's the little moles. Like my family is extremely moldy. And I think about my girlfriend back in Baltimore. She was like, you know, her name is Wendy Pittman. I'll never forget it. She's the one
who suggested this to me. She was she has beautiful skin, and she said, you know, you would look so much younger if you just got all of those molds just burned off. Let me tell I did that, and it may. I'm telling you it may a huge I swear it took ten years off of me. Yeah, you know what it is. It got rid of the background noise, always got rider the background noise. We could all of a sudden just see your skin kind of glow because we weren't being distracted by all of those little brown spots,
which are not mold. By the way, Yeah, what are There's a name for poses pepulosa niagara. We call them dPNs and dermatology. Okay, So I tell my patients a few things. One, the hereditary they run in families. They're not dangerous. You don't have to remove them, but if you do remove them, you'll see a tremendous improvement in your skin. And so typically you put on a numbing cream for around ten to fifteen minutes and then we use a tiny little thing all the higher cater that
just superficially burns the top player of the skin. They fall off and around three to seven days, and I tell you, everyone will notice what happened. You look so you look so much younger. That was. So that is one thing that I would recommend to my black listeners. If you know, if you have that condition, it will take years off of you if you can just describe
what the what the condition is. So these tiny little brown kind of growth they look like almost like little flat or freckles almost or freckles right, and they're usually like on the size of the cheek, on the sides of the face, but they can also be on the neck, right on the body, on the back. I had a lot of them taking off of my back about a month ago, and so I'm always very sensitive though when
I bring it up with my patients. It's not just black my black patients that get them, Latin patients can get them too. I get covered in them and I got a lot of them during pregnancy. But I'm careful because some people actually do think they're beauty marks. You know, if you like them, keep um and so I'm always respectful if somebody says, you know, I like them, and I would ever close your boat. But it made a huge difference, all right. So now we're starting to wind
down though. So as far as your products, your moisturizers, and we didn't really talk about owners, but for all of your your skin care products, isn't necessary to spend a lot of money. I think that it's not necessary to spend a lot of money as long as you're choosing clinical grade products. There are lots of products that are over the counter available at drug stores that have lots of scientific testing to prove efficacy and that they
do improve the skin. So the key is that you have to spend a lot of money, but you should do your research and just don't fall victim to marketing. You know that you're looking at the ingredients and that the company has done studies, So how would the average person know that? Which should we be looking for? Most companies, if you spend the money to do a study, they want to shout it out, you know, because beauty editors really want to hear. They see so much stuff, they
want to hear things that are based in science. That would be my advice, Just do a little bit of research. What do you think. I always say a cleanser doesn't have to be expensive, sunscreens don't have to be expensive. Probably where you're going to spend a little bit of money is going to be on your antioxidant serum, which I think is key in everybody. A vitamin C, a vitamin C E with relic acid, an antioxident that goes on in the morning, basically to get rid of free radicals.
We have to remember that sunscreen is not a complete block. That even though we're wearing sunscreen, skin UVB and UV A race will still penetrate mainly UV A race will still penetrate and release free radicals. And so having an antioxident underneath your sunscreen is key. So those tend to be a little pricier, and so I would you know,
consider splurging on that. And then your nighttime collagen stimulator, your retinal whether you're using a open or a good grade over the counter one, that's probably gonna be on your On the priceier side, maybe I'd put my dollars there and in my antioxidant serum, and I would save on my cleanser, I would save on my toner, and I would save on my sunscreen because sunscreens do not have to be expensive. I want to talk about aging
skin a little bit before we we end. What are the different change changes that you will see as you start to age, like the loss of elasticity and crows feet and you know lines when you smile, Like, how
do people deal with that? So one of the first things that a patient will come in and complain about, and actually it's been shown in studies the very first sign of eaching that a woman will see will be the lines around her eyes the crow's feet, right, And then from there patients will come in complaining that, you know, their faces falling, right, the eyebrows are no longer where they were there lower, that's causing the eyelid skin to kind of be heavier on the eyelid and the cheeks
to be lower. And then the gels that area on the jaw line that kind of hangs right, and so all of a lot of this has to do with chronological aging. You know, it's inediable. Right, We're gonna age and we're gonna produce less collagen and a lastin and our skin will show those changes. But there's a lot of things that we've talked, Like we spoke about that
our environmental to sun is huge. It's a huge collagen degrade or it will chew up your collagen, okay, And smoking is another one and so um and so I always tell you know, my patients who sometimes they come in a panic mode. I really do believe that aging is a blessing and we need to see it as such that we can get consumed in doing these procedures and using Kinkcare, skincare, active ingredients, appeals and doing all of these things simply with the goal of looking younger.
I kind of adhere, kind of to the message that we do them to look better for where we are today life in life, and get rid of this like desire to you know, do crazy things because we're trying to look younger. I don't do these procedures to myself to look younger, and I don't do them to my patients to look younger. I do it so that they can look better, so they feel better. That's such a good point, Alicia. I love that. I love that. So I have two questions for you guys, and are wouldn't
you like to know? Segment to Alicia will start with you, what is one piece of advice you would give your patients. So one piece of advice that I would give my patients. Number one, I would say, recognize that getting older is a blessing and it's a privilege. I would say, be very careful about what you put into your body, what you're injecting into your skin, and how much you're injecting into your skin. More is not better. And then number two, I would say, be very careful of who you go to.
There is a lot of misinformation in our communities of color, in our brown and black communities, where there are these clinics that are where they have non certified physicians, non board certified dermatologist, plastics. They're not even plastic surgeons. They could be a pathologist with an m D. And they
can do medical surgical procedures. I feel that a lot of these clinics pray on our communities of color because we want to be beautiful and sometimes we want to we don't have access to to some of these procedures because they can be expensive, and so they bombard us with these images of gorgeous women, but they don't talk about the risk in some of these procedures, particularly in these bbls, the Brazilian butt lift, where they're taking fat
from one part of body and injecting it into our behinds. So I'm very passionate about that. I want our communities to know that these procedures can be done safely. But you need to be very careful as to who you're going to make sure that your physician is trained or board certified in the specialty that they're practicing. Never go to someone's home to get injected, Do not let a salon inject you, and don't go to a hotel to
do any of these tricks. That is so important. And I don't know what's happening a lot in our community, Yes, and we see it, unfortunately a lot in Miami. And what also happens in Miami is that these international doctors they say, come into town and set up shop in a hotel room in somebody's home and they actually inject patients. And then when that person takes off, guess who's there to pick up the pieces? Guys? Got it? Got it? Final question, Dr Heather, what is something in the beauty
industry you would want to normalize. So that's such a great question because that has been a big part of my career. As I mentioned earlier, I developed a skin care lines specifically for women of color, and I do think that in general, we have been ignored by the beauty industry when it comes to creating products that are safe and effective and address our needs and concerns. So
I took it upon myself to develop a line. But you know, there's space for everyone, right So I want that to be for me in the beauty industry to be the future where you see every skin type, every skin color, and that not only in skincare, but in makeup, in in all of those things that we do in the beauty industry. When I grew up and I know when Alicia grew up, we didn't see anyone who looked like us ever, And that's changing now. That's changing. But I hope it's not a fad. I hope it's not
just this year. Oh, it's trendy to include people of color and marketing and to develop products specifically designed to address their needs and their concerns. But so I'm hoping that this trend which I think is a wonderful trend, and I really do feel finally that the beaunty industry is hearing us. We're a huge buying market, huge end more of our paycheck on personal care than any other group. So really, as a group, we really need to be
paid attention to. That's the biggest thing for me. That's one of my passions is really just increasing access, increasing selection, and just making sure that we're all included in the conversation when it comes to beauty and skincare perfect. What about you, doctor Alicia that Heather, thank you so much
for sharing that I feel exactly like she does. I still feel that there's kind of a stigma associated with talking about boat talks and talking absolutely modulators and fillers, and that we tend to be a little more reserved
about sharing those things with our friends. And I would like to see it normalized because oftentimes what happens is, say a forty year old or fifty year old will come in and they're comparing themselves to other forty and fifty year olds in their social circle that are cheating, and they're and we're no longer comparing apples to apples. Mean when I say cheating. I mean by doing a
little something, doing a little baby boat talks. Yeah, but even even you calling it cheating, doctor Lee should right, you're right through, it's putting, it's putting some hesitation the who are absolutely right right, we have to I have to think of a better way to say that. But the point that are doing things to ourselves to make us look better. And I think it's I think it's as simple ast saying that it's okay if that's what you choose to do, yes, and not being kind of
so sneaky. And sometimes I even see it in people being interviewed where they refused to say that they do some of these things, and it is so unfair because we know that they're doing some of these things. Um, and so I would just like, yes, we are, goddamnit, yes we are and totally okay. And the reason we're doing it is because number one, it works, and it's they're safe and they make a difference right to normalize.
It's kind of that conversation around fund it so where if we do a little bit that we can be more kind of transparent and share right and not and and that there not be a stigma to it. Yes, I always say, we don't need to frown this. This little forehead has around for here again. But again, it's so important that you trust the person that you're going to. Absolutely, I don't know about these people that have botox parties and all of that. Pay attention to where you're getting
your information from. Never done one. I would never do a treatment outside of my office ever. I think it's a careful people that belongs in a medical practice. Yeah, thank you guys so much. This was such a wonderful conversation. I so enjoyed it. And so before we go, please share with the listeners where they can follow you on social media. I'm Dr Heather m D. You can find me on Instagram, on TikTok, on Facebook. My content that I created about wellness and dermatology perfect. I'm gonna look
up your products to thank you. You're welcome and you got your Alicia. So I'm Dr Alicia Barbara. You can find me on Instagram. The handle is at Barbara Beauty and at Barbara Skin Clinic. Thank you both so much for joining me today. Thank you. Thanks so Here are my takeaways from Dr Alicia and Dr Heather. Number one, A basic skin routine does not require a lot. Cleansing serum and moisturizes with active ingredients and some block and
you're done. Number two, it's best to use retin all products with your nighttime routine, with a good moisturizer to follow. Number three. Every time you exfoliate, you must moisturize. Number four it's necessary to go broke on expensive products. What is important is the act of ingredients, so take the time to do your research. Number five, some block with a minimum of SPF thirty is a must. Find one
you love and apply daily. No excuse is accepted. And number six, it's a privilege to age gracefully and remember health and healthy skin is what's really important. If you're listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to rate and review the podcast. Follow me on my Instagram at gammynars to share with me your thoughts on this episode. I'm here, I'm talking, and I'm listening, and as always, stay grateful y'all. Positively.
Gam is produced by Westbrook Audio. Executive producers Adrian Vanfield, Norris, Jada Pinkett Smith, Amanda Brown, and Fallon jethro Co Executive producer sim Hoti, Segment producer Ash Francis, associate producer Erica Ron, editor and mixer Calvin Bayliss. Positively gam Is in partnership with Art nineteen