Aging is Timeless w/ Tina Knowles-Lawson

be no end in sight for her. I am so excited to have Tina Knows Loss and join me on today's episodes. So let's go. Tina Knows Lawson is a fashion designer, entrepreneur, philand entropist, talk show host, author, mother, grandmother, and actress. Hey, Tina, welcome to Positively gam I'm so excited to have you on. So excited. Well, I'm excited to be here. You know, I follow all of your your Instagram and see all your thanks going on, and you remind me of me. Okay, so it's good to

be here. Awesome. We all know you are the mother of two beautiful and talented daughters, Beyonce and Salange. But this show is about you. I want to talk about you. I read that you were a makeup artist at nineteen years old and later opened up your own hair salon in Houston, all before designing the costumes for your daughter's group, Destiny's Child. So already that's like three somewhat related careers early on, before you even move into the realm of entertainment.

And you know, like for me, a lot of people grow up with this goal from their parents to just go to school, graduate from high school, and get a job. Graduate from college and get a job. And there's no right or wrong about that, no judgment, but a job is not a career. And it seems like, just like right out the gate, you had this entrepreneurial spirit. Where did that come from? I think my entrepreneurial came from my parents. My mother. Actually, my mother was a seamstress.

She was a stay at home mom. I mean, I thought, oh, my mom didn't work, But as I got older, I realized that she really worked, as she worked hard and that was a career even though she took in sewing and so she was a great designer and she made these beautiful beated jackets for women in Galveston and evening gowns and that type of thing. She was a beater so and a seamstress. So I got it from her figuring out how to make a Yeah, and so did

she teach you how to sell? Because I know my mother taught us how to soul when I used to make a lot of my own clothes too. I never designed them, I used patterns, but we did. So we made a lot of our own clothes because you picked out the fabrics and put your own touch right. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Yeah, she taught us all how to sew. My nephew was my best friend, Johnny, and she taught he and I how to sew when we were like maybe ten years old. And I was in a singing group when I was

in high school. And uh, my mother and I made all the costume. Look we dressed better than we sugg. That's funny. Oh so you can sing as well? Wow, I'm learning so much already. Not Okay, I was a pretty good singer when I was younger. Okay, okay, So let me ask you what inspired you to try new things throughout your life? Oh? Wow, I've been the decorator interior decorator, anything that's creative. I I love it. I

thrived because and it all comes from my mom. You know, my mom just could so she could a post, the furniture, she could decorate, she she could just do anything. She could cook. So she taught me all of these things. She had me at forty four, so I was kind of like her friend. Okay, we hung out a lot and I learned everything. I attribute everything I know how

to do to her. So is that something that you think that you wanted to show your girls as well too, because they have participated in some things outside of just their music careers. They could all open a hair salon today, and including Kelly. Kelly came to live with us when she was ten, and they grew up in my salon sweeping up hair. And they can cut hair. They can do I mean they're doing hair. They can design things

they don't sew, but you know they can. They know how to do a mean dart or something to make their close to make some adjustments. So what we're kind of focusing on in this conversation is successful careers later in life. And I want to know if you ever felt like your age got in the way of anything that you were trying to achieve. No, I really haven't. I mean, if anything, the older I got, the more confident I got in my ability to be able to do many things. So I think I got more confidence

later on in life. And you know, I have a bucket list like everybody else, and I've checked off most of the things on my bucket list. Wow, good for you. That is not my strong suit. I have to say it's not my strong suit. I've always been someone who was just I had very low self esteem and very insecure. I didn't do anything that my sister didn't do. If my sister wasn't going. My sister is two years older

than me. I'm I'm the baby. I had two sisters and a brother, and the sister closest to me, if she wasn't going, if she wasn't doing it, then I wasn't doing it either. So yeah, I understand that with sisters, you know, because you have somebody older to protect you and you feel protected. But for me, there's a big gap. It's like a five year gap between six year gap between me and my next siblings. So I was kind of like an only child and I had to do it for myself. So I had to get the courage to,

you know, do things for myself. Not that I wasn't scared half the time, but you know, I'm if I have a challenge, I really kind of psyched myself out to rise to the okase, Yeah, you don't let your fear hold you back. Yeah, And that's something that I haven't quite conquered yet. I mean I've taken on some challenges, yes, like even me coming to Red Table. But it was also a circumstance that I, you know, Jada was there.

I knew that she was gonna protect me. I knew that she was my comfort, you know what I mean, she was my comfort. If I had that opportunity without that padding it, trust me, it would not have happened. I don't think I would have done it very good at it. You're a natural because you're you're you know, I love it because you guys are not trying to present something or or say things through a filter. You just it really seems very genuine and you and we're

not giving advice, that's the other things. We're just trying to have conversation, just trying to have conversation. So, do you have any advice for people who are older and want to still have a successful career, or who might want to make a career change. I think just to get out there. I mean, there have been things that I, oh, Dad, of course, but I just move on to whatever else, the next challenges, because you know, you don't have to be succeed in everything you do. But I think if

you don't try, then you'll never know. And I exactly I was thinking the same thing. Yeah, I have some friends that are scared to try because they're like, yeah, hold, and I'm too, And I'm like, I don't ever think like that. You know. I just go with it. And sometimes I might look a little silly doing it or might fail at it, but it's okay because then you know, it's just too many things that life is just too short. Right.

I'm a Chicago stepper and I love that dance and I know, as I've been trying to learn on that it's one of the things that holds me back when I'm trying to dance is that I don't have confidence in my dance and my ability to follow the lead that the gentleman is giving me. That's a the same thing people tell me all the time. And one of the things that they say, they tell me, the instructors will tell you is don't worry about making a mistake. It's just a dance. Don't worry about making a mistake,

and you're gonna be all right. Yeah, you're great. Like you know, my husband tells me all the time. He's like, Tina, can you just let me leave? And I don't know. I'm trying really hard, but I think it's maybe it's trust issues or whatever. But I'm always I'm not a good follower, okay, you know. Yeah, so that's what stops me because I'll be doing good and then I mess up because you know, I get in my head about it. Yeah, you start doing your own thing, all right. I want

to move on to this book that you published. You're an author and you published this book. I haven't right here Destiny Style, I do. I have it. Bootylicious Fashion, Beauty and Lifestyle Secrets from Destiny's Child. I have it, Yes, I do. And it's really funny, it really is. It's such a beautiful display of all your designs through their career. Was that something that you always wanted to do to publish a book? Being a fashion designer. Why I always

wanted to be a fashion designer. Someone just came to me and they kind of I won't say pressure, but they kept on me about it, and I said, oh, it might be fun to do. But it's so funny because that book is probably what fifteen years old, and recently someone gave me one because I didn't even have a copy of it, and I looked to like, Lord, have mercy thinking on some of these office It's really funny. And my kids, you know, my kids look at that book and they're like, oh, Mama, we hope nobody sees

that because you know, it's from fifteen years ago. The hairstyles, the you know, it just shows you how much growth that we've had over of course, of course, but I mean this is part of their history. This is what you can see, the change that that occurred. You know, it's a it's a lot of growth. And and you know it's funny because I did a little cooking section and honey, listen, don't try it. I have it. I'm gonna get to that. I'm gonna get to that. But

wait a minute. Before before we get to that, I'm gonna ask you about out of all the costumes and outfits that you've designed. Which one was your favorite. Do you have a design or a gown that that stands out in your mind that you're most proud of. Yeah, I think probably um the first Grammy gown when Beyonce was nominated for like I think she got five Grammys that year. I wanted her to look like a Grammy statue.

So I did this gold I had custom uh piece made and it's really one of the most beautiful things. I just saw it recently. Somebody put it on Instagram and I was like, this dress is so pretty. It's one of them. And then for Destiny's Child, I did these carsets. I did some custom black leather carsonites and leather pants and skirtings and for them for I think that might have been for Grandmas too. I still love that outfit today, even though it's probably what nineteen years old. Yeah, so, yeah,

it's timeless. Yeah, I saw you you reposted that that gown that you're describing on Instagram recently, right, Yeah, I saw that it was beautiful because probably you know, sixteen years ago and I look at some of the stuff. There's an Oscar dress that that somebody just recently posted that was really beautiful, and I was like, you know, I did do some great things because you know, when the girls came along, I wanted them to be like

the Motown you remember the Motown day. Yes, on the Supremes they look like exactly, but sometimes that went wrong. Why don't have the money to really you know, put the money into it, and so a lot of it I made it myself or we I had this guy to make it, and you know, we couldn't afford to really get stuff custom done and all of that, and it was always a shortage of time, like I might need some office in three days. So some of them

look a little crazy, but that's yeah. And it's it's interesting that you bring up Motown too, because back in the days with Motown, they if you look at the history of Motown, the way they set up that company was amazing. They had a department that spent time grooming their artists, teaching them how to present themselves to the public. So I feel like you guys did that with Destiny's Child.

I feel like you guys did that with the girls because they presented themselves so well, so gracefully and respectfully. How they carried themselves in public. Was that important to you? My ex husband used to play videos of motown stars all the time, say to the girls, you see how polite they are, Like you see eye contact, you see how they you know, they know how to get out of someone if someone asked them an inappropriate question, how they can gracefully get out of it and not strike back?

You know, for me, like really, yes, so we you know, we really taught them how to maneuver through that. We taught them etiquette classes you know I had. So it's true, and thank you for noticing that. Absolutely, that's important when it comes to yourself. How much input do you have in your own styling? Do you style yourself or do you have a stylist, Like when you go to public events and award shows, you style yourself all the time because you know, I'm a stylist right, um, And it's

just easier and it's way cheaper. I'd like that, I would. I would have to agree. I tend to style myself as well. You know, you know, people like the stuff that I wear, they like my shoes, they like you know, how I present myself on Red table Talk. But yeah, I saw myself as a stands right now, I don't have a stylist. Now, what type of voice do you feel like you were recreating for women in the fashion industry as you were designing the clothes for Destiny's Child?

Because the fashion industry is heavily dominated by men. I'm always find that so interesting, even when it comes to shoes and fashion, it's just like it's the people that don't have to wear it exactly, and that's why the shoes hurt. Shoes hurt. But yeah, for me, especially at the time that that they came along, it was, like I said seventeen eighteen years ago, it was really hard for me because for one thing, I'm not, you know, formally trained. It's something that I knew how to do,

and I did it out of necessity. I never meant to style them. I was throwing their hair because and and their makeup and that type of thing. I packed up the clothes. I was the packer, the agent. You know, you do what you know that, you do what you have to do to make sure that you know your kids are taken care of. But I was doing the hair and we were in Jamaica and we couldn't afford to have a stylars travel with us because it was great. The label would give us small budgets so they would

send the clothes. I was steaming the clothes and put them on the girls. They were all ways not sending the clothes or the clothes got stuck at the airport. So we were in Jamaica for MTV and the clothes didn't come and I had passed my little side on the road where they had all this camouflage stuff. So I went back and bought those clothes, cut them up, sold them up overnight. White Club John was there of the Fujis and he said, Wow, who style y'alls? Beyonce said,

my mom. He said, you need to style them all the time because they're unique and they don't look like everybody else. The girls were like sixteen. I think b was like sixteen and they were seventeen, and it was like everything that came was black and super sexy and clean, and I was like, they're fifteen sixteen. So I put them in color and prints and things like that, and that's how I got the style in them. But I never aspired to be a stylist. It just kind of happened.

When you talk about insecurity, you know Beyonce, I used to joke with me and she was like, mom, if you got some locks in your hair and you talked with an accent, they would love you. Because I was this country woman from this this big hair and they were just treating me so badly all the time, like you know other stylists or people in the industry. They just didn't have a lot of respect for me at that time. But they're gonna copy my stuff though. Alright,

So congratulations. I would say for your Facebook watch show Talks with MoMA Tina that came out last year, do you have plans for a second season? I do? I um. I have had some offers because that was a one time uh sixth episode, and I actually did seven. I did one with Kevin Hart as well, and I still have that in a camp. But I just really, honestly have been so focused on so many things that we'll see what happens. Okay. I have to say that I do love on your show how you started out feeding

your guests. I think that was a grand way to make folks feel welcome and and comforted. And so I have your book that has the gumbo recipe in there. Everybody knows that I can't cook, but I'm gonna try to make your gumbo, so I have to let you know, yes, please let me go. You know, my folks are from Louisiana, and I tell my kids all the time that we used to go to Louisiana and the thing part of

that culture is that you surprise people. So we were showing up at our cousin's house or relatives house at one o'clock in the morning. They get up and start frying chicken, and they were so hospitable and they've always made you feel welcome, not that you were intruding. And so it's my custom everybody that comes to my house, I picked something for them, cook something for something, and it makes them feel, like you said, very safe and warm, you know. Yeah, so that's where that love for cooking

came from your Louisiana roots. Yeah, got you, got you. So now we're gonna move on to this new career that you have just established. Yes, as an actress, you had just got through during the Lifetime thriller movie called Wrath, a seven deadly sins story premiered on Lifetime, and you're in it, and and Michelle Williams is in it, and you play her mom. Tell us what the story is? You know it's Bishop Jake's who I love. Yeah, he produces the Seven Deadly Sins. Oh, he contacted me, and

you know who can say no to Bishop Jake's. But I was really nervous because I have never acted before. I was in a MTV movie many years of O ironically with my now husband, like twenty years ago. But you wait, you're kidding. No, you know, I've known Richard for thirty three years. But I just my friend Latonia Jackson, Sam Jackson's wife. She was in and she asked me to do They asked me to do a part, a little part, and play myself in this MTV movie and

just so happens Richard played her husband. How crazy, But that was like me playing myself. So this was really scary to me. But it was fun and actually was fun. I liked it. So did Richard coach you? No, Blue coach to me. Blue Ivy helped to coach you in your life through my line and she was like, Grandma, I don't know if this is right for you. I don't know if you can do this. I was like, forgiving me, that's company. Yeah, I mean, that's that's huge

to me. That's huge to me because you have to memorize your lines and you know, you're in front of all these cameras with it. I mean, people think that acting is easy. It is not. It really is not. It's doing stuff over and I'm like, we gotta do this again, you know. I talked to my husband, Richard, and I said they did that. I was like, that's enough for that, and he was like, they are never

asking you back again. It's like you do that. I was like, we're gonna have to do this again because they do it far away then close up and I'm like, right, do you see that as something that you would like to try again? Do you see yourself really diving into acting now? No? I love producing. That's not like is the producing part of it. I would love to produce. And if I made like a you know, a small appearance in and maybe that that's it was fun. Yeah,

And you know it's easy because Michelle is like my daughter. Yeah, exactly, just easy. I just pretended that we were in one of our conversations and yeah, so much more comfortable when you're dealing with someone that you're so close to Okay, so I wanna jumpkie switch gears a little bit and talk about you and Richard, because, like me, you found love again at an older age. So how did you first meet Richard? Everybody knows that you're married to the

handsome and wonderful Richard Lawson. Yeah. I met Richard forty years ago. I was pregnant with Beyonce, actually, and I met his sister over the phone. Believe it or not, my ex husband was at a Xerox party and I started talking to this girl. He said, I know she's related to you because her family's last name is Broussard and my family's name is Russart, and we're from this little,

tiny area and they were from the same area. So we started talking and we were like, you know, we our families definitely were related, but it was very distant, so let's not get rumors started. Yeah, let's not be careful. But but anyway, we became the best of friends, and I met Richard with her, and he was just always the nicest guy, because you know, he was on. I

think I believe that he was on. He had done Poltergeist and some of these movies, and I thought he was so handsome and um on that him, and I thought he was gonna be like the movie star. You know, when you're from Texas, you think everybody, if they've been on TV, they like a millionaire and they a movie star. But he was helping somebody moved. The first day I met him, he was helping Larry Hilton Jacob's move, and I was like, God, movie stars helped people move with

they rent trucks and they do this stuff. And he was just so nice and down the earth, and we are we're all friends. My ex husband, all of us were friends. He was married, I was married, and then through the years we saw each other and his sister unfortunately died at forty and from breast cancer, and of course we were together during that time, and we stayed in touch when he would come to Houston. I keep

his daughter, and so our families always intertwined. And who would have ever thought that we wind up together, But we actually connected The week that my ex husband was getting married, and I was sold like sad, not about because I wanted him back, but just because I was sad because he was married and I was still not even really dating. And so my friend called him to take us out and then we you know, we just became friends and then that developed into you know, us

having a close relationship. I think we always had a lot of admiration and things in common. But of course we were married. So that's faith, that's God. Well, how did you meet your husband? Did you know? One time? I did? I did. Rannie and I dated many years ago. Yes, uh huh, we dated many years ago. He drove me to take Jada to college. Why yeah, but we yeah, we dated for about probably about four years back then.

But I yeah, And I don't know how much of my story, you know, but I was I am a recovering addict, and I was still suffering and struggling with my addiction at the time, and so the relationship didn't work, and so that that relationship ended and I ended up getting clean. But I also had another marriage in between before I'm married. Because I've been married four times, Tina, I've been married four times. So Rodney is my fourth and last husband. It looks like one. And then and

then that was great. I mean, that's the best. I think at this point in our lives, we know who we don't want, you know what we do want, and I think you know, Richard and I say that all time. We've been through enough because he's been a couple of times. I've been married before. We know what we don't want to have in our lives, and we try not to make those safe mistakes against I think it's the best. It is the best. And we also recognize how important

it is to have friendship in a marriage. But beyond the love, the friendship that's right, Thank you. I say that all the time. Do you like him right? Do you like him as a person? Okay, so important, so important. So before we wrap up, because you talked about having a bucket list, what are some of the things on your bucket list? I want to go and spend like a month in Africa. That's I've been several times. And when I go, I got a schedule of here, there

to there. I just want to go where I don't have anything to do and I can do whatever I want and go wherever I want. Pretty much everything else that I had, I had a really long bucket list I have. God has blessed me to be able to do to travel and you know, I mean I always

wanted to produce a show. I got to do that, and you know, I got to act in the show, and yeah, the rest of it is just I think that's about the only thing that I haven't ever had in my life is just to be able to go on a trip where I don't have a schedule and I don't have anybody to answer to, and I could do what I want to do. Now I have to jump back a little bit and ask what did Richard think about you jumping into the acting role? He jokes all the time, you know she want to be an

actress and I don't. But he wasn't surprised. He just was doing a project at the same time, because they actually asked him to play my husband, but he couldn't do it because he was doing another film and he couldn't help me with my lines. And that's why I got Blue to help me at the last minute. But but he thought, I mean, he thinks that I should do it. I should pursue it. And I said if he maybe, if he helped me and coach to me, I would feel more confident because I was pretty nervous. Yeah,

I can imagine he would. Sounds like he was supportive even though he wasn't physically present. And Rodney has been that for me. He he actually um pushes me and encourages me to do more. So it's it feels good to have your partner be so supportive of the things that you're trying to do in your life. Absolutely. Yeah, what are you currently working on right now? I am

doing a lot with developing some businesses. Okay, So that's the thing that's been keeping me the most busy right now, and I'm not at liberty to talk about what they are, but it's exciting, it's fun. Okay. Then we'll keep our eyes and ears open for whatever you have coming down the pike. So now it's time for this segment that I have. Wouldn't you like to know? So I have a couple of rapid fire questions I'd like you to answer, Tina,

simple questions. All right, what book are you currently reading? The Body Keeps the Score and it's about your mind, body, and soul. And I'm trying to understand how trauma works because people talk about trauma. I've had, everybody's had trauma, and it is the best book because it tells you how to connect the dots on you know, things that you don't even know. We're trauma for you and that your body keeps the score of that it's there, it

doesn't go away. Yeah, yeah, that sounds interesting. I'm gonna have to check that out. What it's one thing you would like to get off your chest? If you don't try, you'll never know. So, you know, please, if you have some dreams or aspirations, don't let fear, negativity or other people telling you you can't do it stop you from doing it. Go for it. What do you have to lose. I need to hear that myself. Thank you. We're keeping

positive exactly. What's a model that you live by? Probably the biggest one is that you gotta be cute on the inside. You know. My mama drove that into my head as a kid, and it used to get you. You know, pretty is as pretty does, and you know it was like I don't, But I have instilled in it my kids in a different way, and they instilling in their kids because you know, it's nice to be cute on the outside, but what about your heart and

what about but what's going on in the inside? Absolutely, because that other thing just finds a way to come out some kind of Absolutely on the outside. Tell us where people can find you on social media Tina. I am on Instagram on Miss Tina Lawson, and it's the same for Facebook. I just got on Facebook maybe a year ago. Okay, thank you so much for taking the time out joining us here on positively gab. It was

such such a pleasure to have you. I've been waiting for you to come on, so thank you so much. Thank you so much. To have a great day. Okay you too, alright, alright, bye bye. That was such a great conversation with Tina Knowles Lawson. I was so excited to have her on. And my one takeaway don't let fear hold you back. Today was a great episode. You can submit your questions to positively gam at red table talk dot com for a chance to hear me read them on my next episode. And that's our show for

this week, a positively gam. You can follow me online at gammy Narris and now on TikTok at Gammy Naris. Also help us out by leaving a five star review on Apple Podcast and by hitting the follow button on I Heart Radio. Stay grateful, y'all. Positively Gam is produced by Red Table Talk Podcast and I Heart Radio. Executive producers are Adrian Vanfield Naris Valin Jethro and Jada Pinkett Smith. Our audio engineer is Calvin Bailiff, and our associate producer

is Irene Bischoff Burger. Our theme song is produced by d Bats