Screen Time: V For Vendetta

like Unit two directors. But all that to say, vitam movie starry Natalie Portman and Hugo Weaving s V and I'll go on the record as saying it's my most basic opinion, but I really like this movie. I also like it. I will say though, since I've seen this movie many times, including once a couple of months ago. Uh, I think that after reading it, after reading the graphic novel, it definitely shifted my perspective of it in terms of looking at it as not just a movie that I like,

but also as an adaptation. And one of the things that comes in very early on is the idea of like romance. And in that very first opening scene where we see Guy Fox being hanged, Uh, there's the like, but what of the man? And we see the woman who's like his wife or whoever in the crowd, and I'm like, oh, I don't care for that. But like watching it again, I was like, I don't think we needed to start with this. I think we could have started with the two of them getting ready. I think

that this was unnecessary. Yeah, I will say where I think the biggest misstep of this movie is is the little romance between V and e V. I don't think it needs it, but felt felt very like an unnecessary Hollywood thing. But other than that, I think this is better than the book. I think it's cleaner. I think it makes more sense than last week. I think that it's better than the book, and I do stand by that.

But I definitely did see it in a different light in terms of adaptation, And there were some things that I was like, Oh, it makes so much sense that they did this instead of that. There were other things where I was like, that really does, Like Alan Moore is kind of right. This does really change the way that the thesis is perceived. And if you know, Alan Moore at the end doesn't have his name in the credit,

It just says from the novel. Illographic novel illustrated by David Lloyd, it doesn't He's like, no, yeah, he just disavowed himself. He was like, I ain't write this. I don't know what this trash is. But I did not write it. I mean it's a bold stance, like i'd be like, I hate it. He I didn't he I thought. He refused. He didn't watch it either. He just read the screenplay. I read it and like was like, I hate this, Which it was funny to me because I

my reaction to this movie was I loved it. I thought the script and the adaptation from a script perspective was a plus, like just so like taking out all of the ideas and streamlining and making it really compelling and really making it about V. I thought the directing was a little B movie, Like I think I wish the Wachowskis didn't just shadow directed. I wish they directed

directed it. I know that you mean be like A versus B. But I was thinking it was very a lot of similarities to be movie storied, a lot of the same motifs and themes. Um. Yeah, I think it was like no offense to the director, but it felt like almost a director trying to be the witch. How skis and wasn't quite as adept to be fair, I mean, James mctigue has not had a long career after this movie.

His biggest credit up until this movie was assistant director on Star Wars Episode two, Attack of the Clones, a beloved movie by all movie goer. This was this was his first feature film. I think it was cool that the wowskis when I looked it up, because I was like, why did they direct this? And I got very up in arms about it. I was like, Oh, they didn't want to. They wanted a break and wanted to just kind of direct from the side and maybe probably get

more sleep. Um, so they brought up their first a d which is a cool thing to do. But h I really like Alan Moore hated it so much when I thought there were so many little love notes to the book in this movie. They're just all these wonderful easter eggs, like like the dolls in Prothrow Shower where they don't talk about how he's an avidult calender, but like if you've read the book, you know, and it's

a fun little nod. Or the show girls in their show girl costume on Dirty d Tricks Show and you also reference they reference, Um, there's a little tiny little clip of Storm Saxon. Yeah, and I do. I think if you watch it for a second, you see that the villain is like a really um racist caricature of an Arab person, which does feel like into thousand five, And I mean that was a little more bush like bush era what the racist villain absolutely would be on

a show like that. I particularly liked this adaptation for the character choices that were made, like letting Ev have a lot more agency, putting her in a position as someone who works in the like state media news. UH station. Also loved the choice of how V was directed and how he's like much more charismatic, much more like kind of devilish and fun. And I also liked the choice that they made for Finch to to actually like let that, like the very final panel in the book now feels

appropriate for the Finch that was depicted in the movie. Yes, this person who is like has been working under the thumb of this like this terrible authoritarian government and is starting to see how bad they are and is trying to piece together the puzzle and in the end makes the choice to let e V send that train. Yeah, I loved that, and like the fact that she frames

it as hope I think really gives me chills. I will get to it, but I the end of this movie, when everyone's removing their maths and we get which I always whisper quick flashes of her parents and of a Valerie and of Gordon. Oh, I'm getting chills just saying it. I find such a such a whamp. I'm like, Oh, it's so good. They're all there and he's there, and

there I am. And it's an idea, it's effective, effective, it's super cathartics at the cathartic ending that we wanted from that we talked about last week of just like there's hope, and also V goes out the way that V wants to go out. M yeah, So I really love that they make e v older. I think it is weird that she's sixteen in the graphic novel. I am uncomfortable with it, especially when she gets into that intense sexual relationship in book two. Uh. But something else

that I really like. I love the scene where VS introduced and where EV is introduced to V. Because as I was reading the latter half of the graphic novel, I was like why why do I like V Like I don't think I do. And in the movie watching the movie again, I was like, oh, that's why I've always liked this character, because he's definitely still a little like not all they are all the time and doesn't think the way that I think we would think, as you're lay people who are not theater people who took

what cyclass. But like in that scene where he does his like monologue with all the vs and in view of thisissitude, but I did three vs, I cannot do the whole thing. And there was a point I was like, I'm gonna learn this when I was like twenty, I'm not gonna learn. But I love like when Evie asks him who are you? And he says who is? But the form following the function what and what I am is a man in a mask? And then she's like, right, I can tell that He's like right, I'm just saying

mask who they are? Like I love that, Like it's like the Brits say they got good Bana, yeah, and sand totally right that. Like he is way more fun and funny in this than he is in the graphic novel. I also really we're talking character changes I really love what they do with Gordon, who's played by my favorite. He's basically an invention for the film. The only similarity is he's, you know, an older man who Evie comes

to for like protection and safety. But in the film, if you haven't seen, in that, Gordon is a host of a television program and he's famous and as money. Yeah, he's laurened Well and he but he hosts the show. He's Stephen Colbert, he's more. He's more Stephen Colbert. Yeah, and he In the first night that Eve's out on the streets, she wasn't trying to work her first night as a prostitute. She was going on a date to visit uh Dad Gordon Dietrich at his house, Daddy Dtric

at his house. Um. But we find out that he sort of invites her as a front, that he is a closet gay man, and that he you know, is a member of this party, but is um secretly rebellious. He has a copy of the Koran, he has banned art, and eventually he's arrested and killed in a way that maybe if someone who works in media, I found so affecting because you sometimes think that like money or fame or at least like public attention will save you. It's

very much. I mean that he was like he thought that he was going to have to do a boring fund phraser of five fine after doing a show that made fun of the Chancellor. And I know you will note I think it's viscerally scary to see someone like that then get his uh it's not come up, and but then get it made. That was like the moment where I'm like, oh, this government is fucking scary. And I felt that fair so viscerally because he was someone

with what should have been power but then was made powerless. Yeah. I do also feel like I should point out Daniel where my husband works for a talk show. For a very long time, he worked for Cool Bear, and every time he has seen the show that Dietrich puts on, he points out that it is a terrible show. It's very dub and done to Benny Hill music, but it's effective. It's very no. No, yeah, you know, I've seen Monny

Python like I could have done a lot better. Um so yeah, So Danny Ditrice puts on this um appallingly bad like vaudeville sketch making fun of the Chancellor, and I think that's actually really effective because I think to any modern audience, that show is very bad um and everybody in their society loves it, like that is the most rebellious thing they have seen in decades in the wildly subversa by their standards. I think it's intentionally bad.

I know, my husband just thinks the people making this movie had no idea what talk shows are in the head indeed never It's interesting that you said decades because what's really weird about this movie and watching it again, the timeline for how long they've been under this dictatorship

was much shorter than I had imagined it in my head. Yeah, they were still making regular No, it was less because in Valerie's thing, because the years have been shifted obviously for the film, because the film came out in two thousand five, So they were like, we're not going to set this in the nineties. This is I think it'll resonate more if we said it in the future, which

is set in UM. So she says, in two thousand five, I came out to my parents or whatever, and then in two thousand I think fifteen was when she was when she was taken but we know, but we know that maybe they only came for gay people later, because Evie's parents were taken when she was when she was twelve, and we can assume that she's probably twenty two now are younger. But so I I assumed maybe like they came for political dissidents first and then it just got

worse and worse worse. And also I think we also have to assume that Valerie was hiding for a while, that they maybe weren't public about their relationship. I mean, Valerie was also a movie star. Yea, Valerie might have had the protection that comes from being a wealthy white woman in almost any society for a while until she didn't. Much Like Gordon Dietrich, that whole that whole thing made

me cry. It's so beautifully so the VALERIEU. The Valerie sequence is maybe one that is the closest to the novel, and I think it really works. What do you guys think? I love verbatim from there were They were just like slight changes that I noticed having read it very recently. It was like, oh okay, But I think that they were changes that were meant to honor and uplift the story, not to take away from it. I think generally the changes in the movie were made to honor and uplift

the story. To me, as people who really loved the graphic, I love it. It's very clear they love it. I mean, I love the choice to of like getting like going back and forth between Valerie and also e V like going through the motion or being tortured and like coming back to the story every like. I loved that sequence. Also loved the outfits that those lesbians wore to come out to her parents. I was like, this is what

you think. This is amazing. These outs are insane, seeing like when was this movie made two thou five, like two thousand five dystopian lesbian clothes? I was like, nailed it, loved it. There was a tiny thing that I realized watching it again this time, because again this is probably like the fifth or hey, the fifth v um but at least the fifth time I've seen it. Uh, there was.

He says that the notes were passed to him the same way that they were passed to her in the cell, which I'm like, cool, cool, cool, And then I remember that his entire body was burned in a fire. Where were the notes made of toilet? Paper. He but he's the one who set the fire, so maybe he oh yeah, he set that fire. So and then he emerged through it and his entire body was burnt. Maybe he'd been it's paper, Maybe he hit nose pieces. He wanted to say that, Remember I said, I imagine he read like

hundreds of times. I feel like put it in he was collecting things. He put a little too. We put the two of his butt right before the But I will say into that end, I really liked the detail of seeing these hands, Like I thought that was a really good, creepy but perfect moment of like seeing the hands and because that's all you need to understand is like that he is not the man behind this mask.

And then it kind of puts that to rest and in a way that is like delicate and like you see her at first kind of strike back and then have this sympathy and like wanting to know more, and and it gives you that point of interest of like what did happen to him? If you hadn't read the book. Um, I really thought so many of the details that enriched V in this in this movie really made me love V a lot more. And to that end, I want to talk about Hugo Weaving. Um we stand stand Hugo.

I feel like we were talking about this on our thread, but just to bring listeners in that like who was it? I haven't pulled up um that James pure Purifoy Purefoy was hired to play V but then he couldn't get into the mask stuff and was fired and now and then he believing who played the villain in the matrix? Who that in that performance in itself I think is just completely underrated. Um and he was an LTR came in and it was like I can take use my mask work from and I'm like, great, we have a

nerdy theater theater major coming in playing V. It is perfect. Um. I still felt the real theater major annoying theater major. Flair I wrote at some point when he was fun, he was putting up all those dominoes. I was like, I was like, the dominoes are just for him, and weeks weeks putting up those dominoes. Do you know how long it takes putting up as it takes a really long time. I read on the like Tribuna on IMDb that it took thousands of hours for multiple people to

put together those dominantes. They were experts. They were domino experts. Is to be a domino expert, I don't think so. And also I will say the dominoes are lifted directly from the graphic novel, but it was a much less elaborate set up. In the graphic novel, they were like, oh, we're just going to do the outline and then the circle, like we're good. Yeah, they filled it in. I got different colors filling it in, gonna knock it down, like was in of hours. I mean, how many times I'm

just thinking proper prop work. He didn't even call Evie in like, hey, even look at this, look at this, this is gonna be really cool. Look look, I know I know that I'm like I don't live my life for other people, and like you should try like doing things just for you more. But if I set up all those dominoes, I would definitely like call my mom like yeah, he did good job. I'd be proud of myself. And it's like, I want to say, it's weird that

he doesn't just for himself. But in this particular instance, I was like I don't get it, Like this is elaborate Okay, I have to go set up thousands of dominoes just for me. I'll be back slightly back to

the film. I think the movie makes a very strong choice to want to tie everything up in a much neater package than the book does, where first there's the his first main announcement at Jordan Tower is like the day after I guess, the day of November five, and he says, in one year, this is what's going to happen. I'm gonna do this. So the entire movie has the entire timeframe of one year. But also and also maybe they was smart and screenwriting just put a clock on it.

But also the most like come together thing that I think they do is something totally different that's not in

the book. But the idea of this St. Mary's virus that there was there there are these these testing facilities, uh lark Hill, like these concentration camps, but at these concentration camps, the thing that the test saying that they were doing on v which wasn't really specified in the graphic novel, if I recall, was we find out in the film was genetic warfare, not genetic viral warfare, which is like a now illegal under the Geneva convention, but

they were they were coming up with what they thought would be the next Adam bomb, which was a a virus as a weapon, So that is specifically what they were testing at this place where v was. And then we find out or the detective discovers that the government

actually used this St. Mary's virus on their own. People said it was Islamic extremists and then used that to overthrow the government, which is a not so I mean, it's it's a little bush to nine eleven, but in not so veiled uh connection though to like, well, when there's an act of extreme terrorism from an outside force, government consolidates power under nationalist identity, like that is something historically, I mean. And also that they had the cure too,

that was the big part of it. It would be crazy if they called it something like the China virus or something, right, Oh yeah, well that would be topical. I mean that whole part when they were showing the newspapers and it was like it was eight thousand day, the government today thousand, and it was just like, oh even in like the wildest imagination of the wachowskis that like eighty thousand dead to a government would would be

like ruining. Not imagine if people found out that the government had done nothing and they were like, we loved those guys, fought them in for another term. I literally had to take a nap after I saw that. I was like, I can't. I just paused the movie and took a nap because I was like that to people to like hearing a film to reference like you can't leave quarantine, I was like, I know, a real bummer.

It also made me very sad because the government like specifically probably like targeted the St. Mary's School because like, oh, an attack on children is so Irish. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. It turns out there are gonna be a lot of people being like you should open up St. Mary's like that. I was thinking, like, oh, just like open up school. It's no big deal. That's it's everything is worse than

any dystopian director coal To possibly imagined. Yeah, well I thought it was interesting also how there was I mean, Alan Moore complains that it's very American and not British the way he wanted it to be. But I did think I was just not a great not It's funny to me that I used to think that like I was like, yeah, she's doing it and watching it at this time. I was like, she's trying, love you girl,

but that she needed a better dialect coach. Yes, But what I was gonna say was there's this scene and where Creedy is talking to Finch and he's basically accusing Finch of doing his job poorly on purpose because he sympathizes with the terrorists. And he's like, well, your family's Irish, right, It's terrible what St. Mary's did to the Irish, And there is like a lot of subtle not I mean it's not subtle, but there's a lot of like racism

towards the Irish. Even before prothero dies, he's talking about his Irish lighting director of photography Patty. Yeah, he calls him a Patty. He's like, I don't want to see him there. Get rid of him. He doesn't know how to light me. If you don't get a new DP tomorrow, things are gonna be bad for you. And I'm like, things are about to be real bad for you. I mean, you wish you weren't racist in your last moment to

find new people to be racist Melissa Place. Oh, just while we're on Pro throw him in the shower with his massive screens all around him, Like what, I just like, does he loved it to himself? Yes? Right, he's probably Musk has a bathroom like that, just like yeah, yeah, yeah, why would you need it if you're not going to

jerk off in the shower exactly? I mean, even if he's not physically jerking off, he is emotionally jerking off to the idea of him being the voice of England and but alternate idea that he is more charitable than

he deserves. Maybe he can't stand to be alone with his own thoughts, um, Like you know, do you ever have that thing for you have a lot of anxiety about like things going on, like you just need the television on in the backroom that he's mouthing the words the thought of like you know, maybe he doesn't want

to be alone when he takes a huge ship. Maybe he's he's guilty, Maybe he feels guilty and doesn't want to think about I mean, I think you're not wrong these I mean there are elements of trip to that where it's like, yeah, these are people who don't want to think critically. They want to distract themselves constantly well, and I think that, like, it's interesting looking at this from the perspective of it being made in two thousand five, before social media was the behemoth that it is now.

Having all these screens in your bathroom does seem like bananas, But usually most of us have a screen in the bathroom with us now. Yeah, And like two thousand five, my Space existed. Facebook was just about to like become a thing, but only in collegests. Yeah, it was about it was. It existed, but it was about to become like a revolution and destroy democracies. Revolution. You're talking there

because I joined Facebook, I think in two thousand six. Yeah, And that was when you still needed to be a part of a network. And it was a big deal to us when they when they introduced no network, when anyone could join Facebook destroyed Facebook, did you guys? Yeah? Yeah, did you guys? Like um when Evie Uh, A thing that she does in the movie that she doesn't do in the book is when she opens the window for v for the pedophile priest that she's like, help me,

I'm the terrorists, I want immunity. Someone's gonna murder you, and he thinks she's playing along. I thought that that from a screenwriting point in the moment you're like, shut up, Evie, But from a screenwriting standpoint and also from like a narrative standpoint, it does it feels relatable where you're like, yeah,

she has no loyalty to this insane guy. And also then it gives her like a chance to to grow, to to get on board with his ideology because yeah, that maybe is what I would do with you know, he let me out and it's a murderer guy. I think that was one example of how the screens play really worked for me in points when the directing did not, because I there was something about like the way it was staged and directed and shot that I was like not in it emotionally with her, Like you weren't just

with her in that moment. You didn't see moments of her right before feeling terrified, Like it didn't tell that story to me in that moment, So it felt very jarring. And maybe it was also because I just read the book and was expecting a different outcome, But like from a storytelling perspective, it felt very grounded, like that's what a young woman would do who felt trapped and had no loyalty to this man. But uh, but yeah, I

didn't fully buy it. You're right. It would have been so much better if we got like a moment where she's like scared and like, yeah, so we see that internal thing. A good point, thank you, rebuttal Uh. It felt to me more calculated in terms of she had Daddy Dietrick's address on a slip of paper in the shadow gallery and we see her looking at it and she's like, you know what, you can do this, and then she takes a moment to try and then be like, oh, v you know, I want to help more. How can

I help? So it felt more like a woman in a domestic abuse situation trying to get out, and then in that moment with the priest, she's like very hurried because she's like, you have like twelve seconds to help me get out, and I've been planning this very carefully and I need you to be better than you are in this moment and help me. But also why why did she open the window for? Yeah? That felt confusing to me. That was the one thing I couldn't wrap

my head around. Yeah, and I because yeah, I just felt like I didn't buy it from an emotional perspective like I wasn't with her and worried for her in that moment. I was more like, Oh, this is a turn, you know, and not a way that she also cres on the news all the time, like when she's I know she's wearing pigtails. But when she says ef Hammond, presumably he has seen many pictures of Ef Hammon. I love that His response is like, Oh, I like this

game this is. But it's also like I'm just gonna keep pettified context thing where it's like, if you assume someone came from the agency you're you're in that you're primed. Okay. I've been in situations like that where it's like I've

seen a person's face a bunch of times. Dana, there was a time in college where we were waiting for a shuttle together and you were talking to this guy who had just written a very controversial bed for the newspaper, and the whole time you were talking to him, I didn't realize it was him, and he kept looking at me like he was scared I was going to get him at him because a lot of black people were

managing at that point. Um The op ed basically implied the only white men with land should be able to He was like, yeah, we set that's like when he left, and you were like, oh, that was I'm not going to say his real name. I forgot his don't say I know it, but I'm not going to say it. But like that was writing mcgriderson and I was like, oh, yeah, that was so that. I think I'll give him that. He was expecting a child prostitute in that moment and

not a terrorist. I mean, yes, I also think that is a little bizarre because in the book, v actually is very young, Like the fact that she's sixty means that she is a child. She would still look like a child. Badily Portman looks twenty five and she cures pedophilia. She's very pretty, and she's dressed in pigtails. Sure yeah, and he's like this is great. When that camera whips to reveal I was like that this is this is a stretch. I'm sorry, but this is actually this is

too five. Did have that costume ready to go? Yeah, that's ready to go. And then there's that moment later in the movie where he dresses up like another person and it's like surprised, like it felt very much like he's the master of disguise. It also felt like he Yeah, not only Portman's pigtail output. It felt like it was from another movie, Like I was like, oh, this is like a Hunger Game style where I was like, didn't

like American Pie, Like what movie is that? I will say, I will defend the movie by saying that is an almost exact replica of the outfit that wears, but it doesn't fit the aesthetic. This graphic novel was written in the eighties. I also feel like her betraying him in that way does change the like his motive, like the way he betrays her later by like tricking her into thinking she's held prisoner, Like there is something. I don't have a strong opinion of whether that's good or bad,

but it is like it's not just this. Yeah, the change of him, of her trying to betray him is like, and then it feels a little vindictive that v did this thing to her until little punishment. The fact that she did actively run away and then he captures her back and tortures her just in the abstract is gross. Yeah, you say that in those words in that order, because it also and this is why I also didn't like

this choice. Is I really liked in the movie after she goes through the process of false imprisonment and shaves her head and is freed, and the rain and all that stuff is the rain is beautiful and that whole sequence. Um when she leaves on her own volition, is like, I'm what are you gonna do? You're a one to woman, and she's like, I'm not afraid anymore, and she just walks away without a real plan. Did she go? Yeah? Where does she go? I don't know where she goes?

But but I but I felt like, to me, the more emotionally honest thing for her to do is to stay under v and not try to escape with the priest because she is this wanted woman and she was afraid then. So I don't know, I actually agree with you where I think a better way to have played it is that she is in on the plan. She did not prep it. She's not going to betray him with Gordon. You know, Gordon's dad dressed the way they prep that. But in the moment when she's with the priest,

she has a freak ap. Yes, But then I think they could have played that a little more grounded in a way that still makes her feel like she has agency and she's a three dimensional character. But I mean to go back to what you said. When she does leave V's lair and finds in a like where did she go? How did she get that other apartment? How did she get the like cinder block bookcase that she

put together? She does say fake, I D. We just don't know how she gets says fake idea and that people don't I think there's she's they said something like, oh when people people don't see me as e V anymore, I think you changed more of me than you know. Her work friend hands her her wallet and doesn't recognize her. Yeah, the logistics of it, I mean, if you live in a city long enough, you know where you can go to get a fake. I D like I know where to go in l A to get a fake. I gad,

I've lived in Chica. I mean I grew up in l A. Also, so like I was a teenager, I knew where people would go to get fake. I did get a fake, I D when I was a teenager, when I was like nineteen. But I don't know where that guy is. He's I don't think I don't know. I mean there are places anyway, regardless, I'm not encouraging anyone to get Where would I go to get a fake? You tell me how to do cry, Well, you go

to fake? I d in my city dot org. But what I want to say my take on the priest thing, and then I want to definitely move us away from that. I don't want to harp on it too much longer. But for me, the thing about the graphic novel one six team, and she is not aware that V has killed anyone other than the Fingerman at that point. Um. Also, he didn't kill pro Throw in the graphic novel, he just made him definitely, so she in the movie she knows that he killed pro Throw. So she's like, oh,

I'm with a murderer, okay. And I think for me, her making that choice to try and extricate herself in this situation, like it was one thing when he was blowing up a building and like doing news broadcasts for for like a revolution, but this is a whole other level. So I need to get out. And for me, the reason that she opened the window because you asked that, and I did have to think about it. But me, for me, the reason that she opened the window is because she needs v to be able to come inside

so that they can take him. So she is able to help with the capture of then she can get the amnesty that she's asking for. I'm not saying it was the best choice, but I'm saying this is how it makes sense. Makes sense. Thank you, It makes sense. Yeah. I think that is very grounded that someone who has lived within a system her entire life and works for this system would not want to immediately throw that all

away for a murder stranger. And she also does have the moment where she realizes that she makes the police officer the detective and she was like, why did I do that? So she she kind of has her moments

of helping him. She was unwitting in the beginning. She was like, I'll just go on a walk with this man that saved me from being raped by the police, and then he blows some stuff up, and then she actually assists him with time, and then he kidnaps her and then she finds out that he used her I d to go and murder the Voice of England, So I think that there's a progression there. Oh yeah, he used her idea I forgot. I forgot about that, Karama.

I'm back on board. Yeah yeah, I'm here too. Okay, I gotta really quick put my hair in pigtails and seduce the priest. I'll be back in the plot. Then she goes to stay with Gordon, which is a sequence that I genuinely love. I love I really like him as he's very funny. He's one of the characters in this who is kind of a rare character in this who seems to have a really lovely sense of humor. He makes her the eggs. What do you guys call that?

In my family, we always called it hole, egg in a basket, called it hole in the eye, which doesn't make any sense. But never I have been in the basket. That sounds terrified. We called it egg in a bird's nest in my house. You no, I've never had that. Was like I saw that. I was confused by what it was like, what which really I thought? The first time that V made it, I was like, well, this is a cool dystopian breakfast to yourself. It's fun. You use like a little glass and you cut up and

then it's very easy to do it. One slice of bread and one egg, okay, great and a cookie cutter fun shape if you want, what's it called hole in the Eye's family understand, could be a lot of things, okay.

I also really liked the storytelling of this storyline where it's, you know, in the beginning, you think he's a creepy older man that's trying to have sex with e V and like Daddy d trick, and it's like, as soon as that was said, I'm like you, Like, I just was a meeting them, and then I saw him like that guy and then they go over and you know, and I'm like, oh, he's actually really sweet and when is he going to be a creep And I was like, oh, no, he's not, agree and then it just became so lovely

in such a sort of surprising relationship within this movie. In many ways, he's like a version of Fee that continues to operate within this society. He secret room to where he has art in the Koran and things that would get him killed if anybody found out about them, and then does unfortunately does. I did also wonder though, like did he have this secret room built first and then put the things in it? Or did he have the things and then put them in a secret room

that he then had built. Like what was the progression and like, how did he explain to the contractors what he was getting got He gotta have a secret first, you don't. You don't get this stuff unless you have the secret room ready to go. That's what I'm thinking. But then what do you say to the contractors? Do you say, like, this is my play room, like you're Christian Gray, Like what's the A lot of people panic

Crimson room. Yeah, I didn't even think or just make it a regular room and put a big bookshelf in front of it. Yeah. Yeah, these are things that you think about in a dystopia. You gotta prep your secret Keran room. Did we ever get a sense of what his show was like before the No. I think just like bad like Carson, Yeah, like British panel show. Yeah, like a bad version of the Graham Norton Show. Yeah, like perfect. Yeah. I love Graham Norton. I loved all

the teeth. I loved all the portrayals of TV and media in this because like the reporters as well, just to like kind of tangentially but like the report, like the his reports felt very box news vibes, which like she she blinks a lot when she does a story. Yeah. Um. But I also loved and it's such a minor detail of this movie. I love the shots of people watching television in their homes because you get to see how

normal their homes look. And I think a lot of people think that, you know, if we lived in the dystopia, it would look like soil and green, like everything would be terrible and falling apart. And no, their homes look really lovely, like at least one couple is some really nice built in bookshelves. It looks really pleasant and normal.

And that happens right, and autocracy grows up around you and things keep looking normal for a lot of people unless you're a minority, or a reporter, or not straight

or not sis, and then everything looks horrify. I think that's a really good point, And because it was connected to something that I like the change of e V having this job because she as like a young, pretty white woman, she would have a job in this society, and it does feel like she has that privilege even if and it is like comfortable for her, even if she is living in this authoritarian regime, and it does feel like in the book the options for women are

a lot more limited. She has a female boss in the movie. Yeah, And that's why this feels more grounded and more relatable, especially to today, because it's like, oh, you can still have creature comforts in regimes that are very scary. And I like the choices of seeing thee like the families at home, because you don't get that in the book really, like you don't get to see the effects of like what V is doing or what EV is doing, and what essentially what the government is

doing either. But I love seeing like that one scene where the young girl starts to realize that the news is then she gets up and is like bullocks, And I'm like, this is such a great tiny detail just to show that, like what he the idea that vas pushing is starting to like seep its way into people's consciousness. And I think the movie makes a very smart choice of taking the core climax of the novel, which is that V is purposely sewing chaos to tear down this

totalitarian government. Sending out the masks to people is like a tangible that's very smart, where it's like, yeah, if you want to sell better than poetry, if you want to sew chaos, and he does. Don't send people weird poems, send them symbolic masks that kind of make them feel empowered to do things they maybe otherwise wouldn't. And also it makes it harder to identify him, and it makes it more like this isn't just me. I'm not the only one. Anyone who puts on this mask is a

part of this. Oh yeah, and that's why I love that. Like Spider Man, I was gonna say, it's like Spider Man into the Spider Verse, anyone can wear the masks that at the newsroom where he broadcasts, and then he puts his mask and all those people. It's such a cool,

um like cinematic scene. But it also how the mask shifts in the movie is like in the beginning, it's like essentially hostages are wearing these masks so that the police doesn't know who who is who, And then thousands and thousands of people are wearing these masks because they're all him, and so I feel like that's a really cool device within the movie. Another small logistic thing though, he said, like seventy mask and this is like, I guess, did you see in two thousands five when it was

made for me. It was about the logistics of getting those masks, and like also just people are different sizes in their bodies. And he didn't just said masks. He also sent like caps and hand and I have a very large head. Most hats do not fit in my head. So I'm just like, where did he get all these one size fits all hats and cakes? They're like baseball hatsened by the hats. I just know that the sending out the mass, I assume that everyone just like went

out and bought those tips. No, you can see the when it's open. Yeah, he said the cakes. Well, I will say there is something about this movie that I enjoy in terms like in terms of the heightening of it to make me a little bit of a superhero, like not a full superhero. And he does die, he is mortal, but like he is like those matrix he and whatever, like with the knives and the swishing swishing of the knives because in the book he is larger than life. He is like it does feel kind of

like a demi god. And so it is all of these moves then feel of a piece. It's like, I believe the way you can move around a room, makes me believe you can set up those dominoes and makes me believe you couldn't figure out how to ship seventy masks. He does. They do mention in like a tiny aside that during during the experiments that subject five got heightened reflexes and like they give him superpowers and super it's a little X Man. Yeah, he's not very I liked

me either. I think maybe some executive was like, he's very good at dodging knives? How did he do that? A little aside, It's like he loves and I like that in the movie. Another thing that we don't get in the book is he he loves the Count of Monte Cristo, which is just like kind of fun and for like a little personal detail, and he likes that it's romantic and its sweet. Yeah, if you get your sweet. Yeah, it makes me seem like a lot more fun to hang out with. You you can eat like anabasca, to

watch a movie with. If he's always quoting Alistair Crowley at cross, I mean, I love that cat power on this jukebox practice Antony and the Johnson's I was like, Okay, he's he's got a great He's got great taste in music. Practicing cat power another point in that he's getting you right, Anthony, very Anthony practicing his sword work against the night. That armor is adorable, adorable, while quoting the movie at the same time pretty cute. I mean, that's afraid of that guy.

This V is so great, And this V to me gets the ending that I wanted in the book, which is like he shows up to a to a situation that he will not win. Obviously, it's like all of Prothero's men, and so to have him like take all these bullets and then be like, Okay, now my turn, I was like, this, this is the ending that I

wanted for him. Yeah, he gets to hear and I forgot this is the first time you've seen the movie because I was waiting for them my turn, and like waiting I wish I could experience that the first time again. He's like him describing how he was going to kill Creedy. It was so fun, and it was like exactly because I'm so used to watching like superhero superhero movies where they actually can't die, and so it is so fun to see him have these like cool higher level moves.

But then he is still a mortal man, Like that is what was so satisfying about it to me, Yeah, two things. One, I the scene where he's like, this is how I'm going to kill you reminded me of the scene in Charlie's Angels the film where Drew Barrymore's character is like, I'm gonna tackle all of you and then I'm gonna moon walk out of here. And then she does it, and I'm just like, I love when you set up a goal, a hypothesis and then use

alved it with your experiment. It's like that there and that scene which you were like, yeah, it's the ending I wanted. I totally agreed. And it also to me felt like the best example of the screenwriters taking an element from the book and then translating it into being satisfied where what they took was like, what VI's plan was is he knows that in this system there's going

to be backstabbing and discord among the party members. But rather than do this like weird elaborate puppet master ruse that wouldn't make sense, he literally goes to Creedy, sets up this backstab, and then reaps the results like we see the cause and effect in a very clear way, where even though the pieces are the same as they were in the book and the point is the same, the cause and effect is much cleaner, much clearer. And then we get this fun moment which we get a

dramatic death. Yeah, I love the creaty does not understand the oncept the bullet froof bulletproof best, just like why are you dying? Also the best if I mean, I've knock on wood, never gotten hit by one. They would knock you down. They don't stop. They stopped you from dying, but they also you'll like be bleeding or bruised. Right, No, it wasn't perfect. But also he was like, but I don't understand how you are still alive, And I'm like, it's clearly a bullet proof situated. You are a cop.

You should know me. I mean that ending too, of having Um the High Chancellor being killed by Creedy felt really satisfying too, instead of I mean, I know they intentionally streamed blind Rosemary out and Helen Higher out of this, and I think it. I think it worked. I think

the addition of the good reason, I think for good reason. Yeah, no, the problem in this dystopia is not the patriarchy and I do feel like that's different the book, where, yeah, the powerlessness of women in that society is a big part of the book. Yeah, so like not having those two I think was again a great a great choice on the on the Wachowski sisters to like not add any more extra extraneous stuff just to honor the book.

I thought that was a great choice. And the only time we even get the other body parts of the Norse Fire Party are during like when Adam h his name is it's not Adam Susan, Adam Sutler and this they made it sound more like, oh oh, I didn't think about that, but yeah they did. I read that on IMDb. That was not an organic realization. I thought they were just like the last name Susan, that's yeah. Yeah, I thought the same thing where they were like it's

sort of weird. But I was saying, there's like the the only time we get like, um, that's the names like Dascom and Etherd just he's like Bethridge, how are things at the year you know that I could say. The only thing about the ending that was a little unbelievable was well, little tiny Natalie Porman being able to pick up the like she did. She was not working out, she didn't do foreshadowing of strength being used. Can I

pick up the Bleeding Man? Last week? I promised that there was more I wanted to say about the destruction and creation two sides of anarchy, And I think that we get this lovely scene where Evie is like God is in the rain, and she's gone out to the rain to sort of like have her renaissance moment literally rebirth moment um. But they enter they like intersplice it with the scenes of the coming out from the fire and fires used to destroy and rain is used to create.

And I thought that was really interesting. There we go said the moment. I was just going to say. Then the end where he gives her the choice to pull the I think it's great because you know, the choice should be to the people. What I didn't love was m I don't mind a kiss. I think a kiss to a mask can be sweet and can be earnest. I didn't love the I love you. We don't need them to love you can okay, But Valerie loves everyone like I think the movie and the kids they don't,

they don't play it. I would have That's why I was okay with the kids. I kissed to me would have played like a Valerie love but the way they play it feels like a play it as a love story, especially like that moment when he when Evie leaves and he is left alone and he like throws his mask and cries. It's like Beauty and the Beast. It's very Beauty and the Beast where he's like, I just wanted to see your face one last time. That's like a

line actually out of Beauty and the Beast. And he's like, I promise, I promised, too good mess and make it like a little weirder, I promise. He really does such a good job of bringing life to that mask. Like I know we joke around like the Juggle, but like he really did. He's very expressive, crazy, he's clicking his hair around all the time. And also what's wild to me is that the whole all of his audio was done in post. Oh we didn't know that. That's so cool.

I mean, he was saying things while he was there. Obviously he wasn't like miming, but they had to redo everything in post and so it was a great physical performance and then a great voiceover perform and then voice over a little bit that was from the first guy. Oh yeah, could you tell could tell I was looking? I think it would. I think they probably just used it for like like fill our shot, you know what

I mean, like some basic shots that they couldn't read. Well. No, he worked for like six weeks before were he like, but we don't know what they saved and what they didn't they you know, call it Eric Stoltz worked for six weeks on Back to the Future before they fired him. Yeah. Yeah, in her it wasn't supposed to be Scarlett Johansson. It was someone else, Samantha Mors, Samantha Morton, and they were like all of Joaquin Phoenix's um acting is against Samantha Morton.

Oh that's very interesting. I didn't know that. A lot of fun voice over and casting facts that we're getting here. Um, what was I going to say? I do think this is This is the one time where I was like, I think this is that other dude the scene where it's the show within the Yeah, I was like, I think it's that other guy there where he's being he's like being a little scamp and he's got his little I think it's neither I think it's just a rand

him guy. You think that was just like a bubble. Well, I also think what's interesting about this is like he did such a good job with it, but it also is a character that lends itself to such great physicality because this character is so theatrical and like so there is so much body movement. I think about in comparison The Mandalorian, where I get very frustrated with that show because it's just like Pedro pascal is behind that mask. Why can't we just see Pedro pascal um And it's like, oh,

there's just a lead character that gives us nothing. But that's because it's a stoic man behind a mask and that's boring. But a theatrical man behind a mask is great. Yeah, he like flips his hair like an anime character all the time. Very fun. Love it stars to come out, It's great. I love the hair. Also. Yeah, I don't know. I always really enjoyed the like help me to I'm Chic, I work I work close from Chico. I really loved the Shadow Gallery. I thought it was like better than

I could have imagined. And I feel like whatever location that was was so cool. It wasn't like I was. I guess since this two thousand five, it wouldn't have been as but like nowadays, that probably would have been some kind of green screened situation of some like magical sort of place. But I like that it just felt like a real um cool, old English uh built it.

It also to me feels much more um homy and exciting than the shadow gallery that we get in the book, which like I can't picture its dimensions, but the shadow gallery in the movie, like I want to listen to. They just invent new dimensions. In the third book, did you know there was an elevator here? Well here it is? Uh yeah. In the end, I think Creedy's journey, which doesn't involve LSD, but he still figures out he somehow without LSD figures out where uh these hideout is sorry,

not creaty Jesus Christ. Uh uh, Finch figures it out even without l s D gets there. But let's e v pull it because at this point he had come on this journey and realized that this government needed to fall, and I think that that is a very hopeful and cathartic moment. And then it's paired with this tear jerker

of a finale. Yeah, I think what I like the best is that the shots of Gordon and Valerie and the audience are so fast it doesn't it doesn't make it, you know, it doesn't condescend, yes, and it does blend them with the other people that we've been watching watch television, the family, the little girl. Like I think that's really yeah, what you were saying, we never talked about the little Yes.

Uh she be describes it in voiceover or someone else does that with all this like finished does that with all this chaos, someone is going to do something and people are going to boil over. And what happens is this girl wearing a v mask is spray painting and

upside down anarchy symbol which I obviously immediately recognized. If the vehiclego and uh, he shoots her, he's a plain clothes finger minute turns out, but the crowd is furious, and the crowd moves on him in a way that shows that everyday people are rising up against the government. And uh, yeah, I'm just gonna say, I think when um policeman shoot unarmed young people, people absolutely should rise

up against them. I mean, I think it's also it was a very hopeful ending that like all of the folks in the v masks are walking towards like the wall of military men and they put their guns down, and I was like, this is such a hopeful choice, but it's seeing but it's the orchestrated because all the hierarchy are all dead, can't follow orders, Like it's like they're just there. I was just following orders people, but

there are no orders. So it's because they're like what They're like, Adam Seller is not coming through and there will go to Creating and they're like, Creating is not coming through, you know, like it's like he figured out the system where it's like with no orders to obey. They just were like, oh we don't. It's like toys without anyone to play with. I mean, I still think it's a very hopeful. Yeah, it's very optimistic. I want to go back to the young woman who died um.

I think that it's really interesting. In the news reports after that, they talk about riots in Brixton and and I was like, I don't know a lot about England, clearly because I asked the other day, like in one of our previous recording sessions, does England have just the bbs, so clearly not very in the note about England. So I looked up more about Brixton because it's a place I had heard of in like grime music. I'm like, yeah, Brixton blah blah blah blah blah. Like I was like, okay,

I don't know what that means. So, and Brixton was actually the site of riots in the eighties, So I thought that was a really interesting nod to the origins of the story. Look at that, right, I learned that. Thank you. Yeah. I think where the book, you know, Ellen Moore was mad that they, you know, didn't make

it specifically about Margaret Thatcher and anarchy. I think that it the movie working so well and resonating so well, I do think speaks to the universality of the themes and it is it feels very weird that an author wouldn't be like excited about that. I think it's so it's cratchy. It also seems like we're talking it seems like an author that is too precious with their work.

That's what I mean what it comes down to, because we're talking about all the changes that we really like that we felt like made the story better, and I feel like for Allen Moore, it's basically like every every change is a comment and a criticism on his work. I would assume, is I mean, you're allowed to feel that way, Like there are lots of writers who don't want to watch movie adaptations off their work because they

just want it. That's fine. Yeah, taking his name, for taking his name on so much and vocal about it, and you're like, I don't I hate it. I wonder what he thinks of the current Watchman because I I

think he probably likes it more. I bet not. I bet like this is a good movie, yeah, the show or the movie the show I'm talking about the show, which is also good to go, Yeah, the movie of the movie is bad, but this is a good movie and he hates it, which leads me to believe that, like the Watchman TV show is so good, but probably Alan Moore and he's like where the Wizard Cave is like, but in my imagine sequel it goes like this, Like he doesn't seem like someone who can let go of

his characters. It's just his right and he's still letting them make It's like he's like, if the people want this thing. I'll let them have it, but I'm not going to say that I condone it. Yeah, I think it's kind of funny. I like the I like the quirkiness of it. And it's like, oh, Alan Moore, you're just like letting these kids run around with their books. Be like, I, oh, those stupid kids have it frimas. Yeah. So yeah, Alan Moore has said he wants nothing to

do with HBO stand Watchman's love that for him. That's that's I was ready to let him be like, yeah, people like this, this is cool, but he's He's consistent if nothing else except for from hell he loves Stopwatch. Really really, we were like, wow, Helen Whore is happy. We just want him to be happy with something. But question, So, this movie was made in two thousand five, a thing

that we have said multiple times. But my question is the world now is very noticeably different than it was in two thousand five, and arguably two thousand five is more similar in the way that the world was to the nineteen eighties when when we forbid that it was written, then two five is to now. Even so, if this movie were to be made today, how do you think

it would be different? Like are there things that you're like, Oh, there's no way this would fly in an adaptation today, or this feels very dated, Like I'm curious about like looking at this in for some of you, having seen it for the first time, how that feels. Okay, I saw this in theaters and I don't remember people thinking it was a hyper political statement. Um, like maybe they did. Um, but there are so many alright, guys who have a

profile picture of v for Vendetta. Um, so apparently there was a way to like watch this movie and be like I love Donald Trump Andrey for Vendetta, and I don't know how those two things fit together in your break. I mean, I was gonna say, I think that it probably will be adapted again very soon, and it will

be a limited series for HBO. Like I think this kind of movie if they were made now, I think most of these kinds of like big idea movies are now limited series or or several or like Hyman's Tale Washman, and I think they would include all of the other characters. I think they wouldn't include Rosemary and Helen Higher And they would be all of these um different sort of storylines wrapping together and uh and it would probably add

more story than it would subtract. Think it would be also dark as hell, like I can imagine that it would be. The adaptation for this in Your in the limited mini series would be like very bleak given what we're experiencing, right, I think we are going to get a sad cabaret if they love I feel like a prestige drama loves like sad sexualization, like when it can

something can be both very sexy and very sad. Yes atab oh yeah, West World, or I think of Natalie Portman in Closer, um yeah, where she's like, oh, lying is the most fun a girl can have without taking her clothes off, but it's better if you do. Obviously that was a play first, great adaptation. I love that movie up and also if it were made into an HBO limited series, Alan Moore would want nothing to do. That's the one thing we go through line Taylor's all

this time. The thing that very famously happened was Natalie Portman actually shaved her head and that was the real footage that they used. I just kept thinking, like what if they fucked up? Like she has to be crying for that, and I was just like, oh, my god, they only get one shot. I know entertainment baby hadn't seen that clip in pop culture, just like reused over and over and over again. To see it in the film,

I will say it made me laugh. I know that will not the intended purpose and that he had like having yeah, just having seen this like crying Natalie Portman, and then it did not have the effect that I think it would have had if I had not seen all the other crying Natalie Portman's that's kind of the danger with seeing media, not danger, but kind of the collateral damage of seeing media later than it actually, like later than immediately, because we memify and like make things

into gifts so quickly and turn them into something else. And like, I haven't seen Marriage Story. I never will watch Marriage Story, but that scene where um Adam driver punches a wall has just been I'm not going to take it seriously if I watch the movie. Yeah, it is better than the meme. The meme made me not want to watch the movie because I'm like, there's a dumb movie. And then I was like, oh, it's actually much better than that, right, and things are better in context.

But something I wanted to say about the shaving scene. Is that it's like in The Four year Old Virgin when they need to do the waxing scene. They really did that to Steve Carrell, and they had one shot because you cannot fook waxing, Like I mean, there's a lot of those one shot things you know, done in certain movies, and it is I feel like everything comes

down to camera focus. It's like, because that's a lot of the time why things get you know, they need to go again as you know, it's actually depending on the director, but like acting comes last to it usually, and it would I would just laugh so much if it's like they did the scene she was cropped full crying shaved. It's like, oh god, we're yeah, we're a little soft on the focus cameras. They used three cameras

for that makes sense. One one has to get them. Yeah. Um, So before we wrap, any final notes on be for Vendetta the film A plus adaptation good, really enjoyed it. Would suggest it to all friends the best adaptation of the ones that we've watched. I would say, yes. I mentioned last week there are a small handful of films that I think are better than the books they're based on. The Vendetta I think is one of them. Fight Club is another, and it's a it's a pretty small list.

And then there's a very very short list. I e. One film that is exactly true to the book. They're exactly the same, and that is Holes. Holes is a perfect adaptation. I've said it before, I think I said it. We were talking about like normal people, you'll have not seen Holes and read the book. It is perfect. Like I will not I will die on that hill, I will die in that hole. Um well, on that note, I've been wanting to say van Archy in the UK this whole time and have now found a reason to say,

oh no, perfect but Vanarchy in the UK. That's our show for the week. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Danish Schwartz and you can find me on Twitter at Danis Schwartz with three z s. You can follow Jennifer Wright at jenn and Ashley Wright Karama, Donqua is at Karama Drama, Melissa Hunter is at Melissa f t W and Tan Tran is smart enough to have gotten off Twitter, but she is on Insta at Hank Tina. Our executive producer is Christopher Hessiotes were produced and edited

by Mike Johns special thanks to David Wasserman. Popcorn Book Club is a production of I Heart Radio