Screen Time: Rebecca (2020)

oceans eight. Like this entire last half of this movie it didn't make I was like, what are you trying to do? That is a masterpiece. Welcome back to Popcorn Book Club. Danish Swartz here, joined as always by Karamadan Qua, Tian Tran, Melissa Hunter, and Jennifer Wright. Today we are continuing our Rebecca discourse. I was trying to combine those words for a second in my head before I said

it and then bailed immediately reccaseccase. We're continue our conversation about Rebecca and the adaptations there within this time, focusing on the Netflix adaptation that was literally just released the day before. We're recording this starting really James and Army Hammer before no judgment to everyone involved. Because it did just release yesterday. Did we all get a chance to watch it? Yeah? Baby? Is everyone ready to have a party where we slowly chant Rebecca burned subtext in the

fires of Manderland. Joe, Okay, so first of all, we should say that if you worked on this, I'm sure you worked really hard and it's really hard to get and nothing made. And yes, the costumes were beautiful, and you should be proud of yourself. And I get your mom is proud of you too, yes, And Kristen Scott Thomas, you are hast designer. Julian Day, you killed it. Screenwriter Jane Goldman, I've really enjoyed a lot of her work before she wrote the screenplay on Stardust. And these guys

a lot of caveats. So, now that you've said that it's really hard to make something good, it's hard to get anything, it's incredible that anything is ever good. Honestly, that a movie or television show is ever good is an actual miracle. That is really real, thinking about all the people that have to touch it and that everything, all the gatekeepers. That is so real. So we thought it was dad, Wow, we really didn't. I laughed the whole time I had. I had a great time. It

was amazing. I did have a Manderley ball with it, you know. Yeah, I didn't realize how bad it was until the ball. See, I was like this, it's not dripping me. I am very bored. But the costumes are nice and enjoying, like all of this, you know, English countryside. And then they get to the falsey where everybody in costume gathers around her for no every reason that I can understand. I don't think she's on like a hallucinogen. It trip about it feels that way, and they all

just screamed Rebecca's name. It felt like a non commitment to a surreal scene, like they're like dipping, like it's someone who tries to do like it almost feels like you're at a ball and there's like a circle and there's a dance circle, and you go in the middle and you start to do like some kind of weird dance and then you immediately bail. You know. That's what

the whole Secrets felt like. It felt to me like it was an internal expression of what was what she felt was going on at the party because she had shown up in the wrong dress, like the wrong dress, and she's like everybody's thinking about Rebecca. Everybody wishes I was Rebecca. This is what it feels like. But it wasn't clear her nightgown but also horrible. Yeah, the worst dres But also even if that was her fan, I

mean it was her fantasy, like her nightmare. You can be a little more subtle than just people chanting Rebecca could just settled or just go hog wild and have that whole sequence be the surreal nightmare like pick a side direct. Yeah. My overall review of this movie is that it felt like a two hour do your Perfume commercial? Yeah, like good with these like gorgeous models and in beautiful costumes in this beautiful house and that's it. Yeah. Well, I started watching it hear the same age. I kept

watching the romance between this age of prop couple. This is obviously attracted to each other because you know, Karama, you had brought up before your ideas with the prologue and like how it affects the book. I will say, this movie's problem to me, it was like you said yes, but for the first the ending is a nightmare. Will get to that, but at the beginning we get the prologue,

but there's no tension there. What's what's scary about the prologue And like even the scene of them in the hotel is like that's their prison cell, that's their punishment for killing this woman and getting away from it. They live now in shitty hotels, being boring with each other, and there's like a sense of dread. And so you go into this fantasy knowing that there's a sense of dread, that something's gonna go wrong and they're gonna be trapped together.

But this we don't get that. And so it's like here's a pretty girl and she meets a handsome guy who's nice her and they have a really nice romantic time on the beach, I mean an Olivier and like they make him charming on purpose, and there's no tension, and like she's immediately okay standing up to Mrs Danvers and like being outspoken, Like there's no dread. It's just like you said, like Melissa, like a perfume, Matt, It's

just like flat. Yeah. I think it's a problem too, is that it tried to do too, Like it tried to be two different movies. It tried to be like a weird rom com because there's like a meat cute, she's clumsy, they fall in love at the end, and it also tried to be like this thriller and then also then a detective movie at the end where she's like running through the doctor's office, like it turned into a caper in the third act and you're like, she just oceans eight like this entire like last half of

this movie. It didn't make. I was like, what are you trying to do? Is a masterpiece? But it is? And say all the way through, you know I who commits I will say. The thing to me that felt wrong is I'm trying to make this movie like feminist e girl power Like they were like, oh, she won't be such a wallflower, like she'll have agency and the thing don't really get rid of the whole book. Ye I had the whole book and also made it more sexual. How is not? How is the book more feminist eighty

years ago than this movie is? Melissa? Girl power is a girl sneaking into a doctor's office for her man. No, girl power is getting to drive your convertible on the cliffs. As soon as she got on the driver's seat, he I was like this movie is totally different. If Maxim is giving her the keys to the car, like, come on, he loves her because she's like a child and an innocent that hasn't been corrupted by the world. He doesn't

want her drive in the car. No, No, he wants her because he can control her, because she's subdued, like Rebecca was untamable. Well, I think so much of the book is about whether or not women can maintain their identity in marriage, and Rebecca can by floating all the rules about marriage. And Mr Winter never even gets a name, like she can't. She is completely a prisoner of her marriage. I just have to say, I felt like at every turn that completely shifted the female characters and made them

somehow worse, except for Mrs Danvers. I feel like Mrs Danver's was the most consistent in terms of from the book to this film adaptations. Less gay, annoying, definitely, but still the most consistent. Like I felt like Mrs van Hopper in the book and even in the nineteen forties movie, she was an unpleasant person, but she was unpleasant in a normal way. This movie was just like she was literally a monster lady, but it was the book was The book was funny because she was unpleasant in a

relatable way. And the book is very funny because like people act in ways that people actually act. And this was like it was like written as if an alien had never heard a joke before. Like, yeah, and Dowd in a different movie, I would have loved this performance that and Owd gave because she was just eat chewing up the furniture. It's like you go go to the Leven and Dowd, but then it's like then it's like surprised. We we directed a completely different movie outside of you.

But I will say that I will watch. I would watch and Owd have the flu for like an hour and a half. She was so funny being sick, just like like that that drool that was like really did the close up of the drool? I gasped, like be more? Going back to Karama, what you were saying about dan Verse,

I totally agree. She was amazing. What I didn't like that they made her do at the end is say all of the subtext in a monologue, her momog at the end, it was literally the Chanting Rebecca of speeches where she's like I had to burn it down it was our place, mine and Rebecca's that I care about. I couldn't let you have it. It's like, you don't

have to say a suicide. Seeing suicide don't mean she also could you just you could have just seen that shot if that was the choice that decaid to make, and you could understand, like you don't need to say a goddamn word. Yeah. I didn't love the trying to convince her not to kill herself when all you've done is being odds with each other, like Mrs de Winter wants her to die. Like, I just didn't power the

women helping seem very wrong. Come to me. They were like, here's a montage of party planning, and we're on the same team. Can you believe my god? That was I actually kind of liked the party planning were on the same page part because I knew that it was fake Mrs Danvers, and I was kind of like, oh, okay, this is like when Regina George says, oh my gosh, I love that skirt. Where did you get it? And I just knew that as soon as she turned her back, it was going to be like, that's the ugliest effing

skirt I've ever seen. Why don't you jump up a balcony. I have a question, and I wasn't sure about this, and so I'm asking you, as like smart TV writing people, they made a choice of changed from the book that seems sort of minor, which is that Danvers fed the dress idea through the servant and I like that, okay, but here's the thing. The difference was, it wasn't a

servant in the book. Her servant just came to the house and she was brand new, and so she wouldn't have seen Rebecca at the party, which is why when she's the only one who sees her in the dress, she's like, great, you look great. Have fun. At the party where this maid was there at the beginning, she was just like a chambermaid. So she knew that Rebecca had worn that dress, and dan Verse told her and she was like, oh, I just I thought you would like it, And she said that Mr. De Winter would

be so happy. She should fire hold these people the minute that happen. She did try. She was bad at it. Oh my god, remember when she tries to fire dan Verse and then Max got mad at her because he thought that she was having an affair with with Jack was so weird, although I will say he was perfectly cast favel. I thought that was exactly the right amount of like the in between that we've been talking about

in terms of the actor. Thigh scene was sexy, but what didn't make sense in real life she would be I think, too embarrassed to have said anything where in this she can't be confident enough to fire Mrs Danvers, but not conid enough to tell Jack like funk off. And then why would Max ever think She's like, Hey, a weird guy showed up at our probity today, whoa

to visit? You know that your question about Mrs Danvers in the movie making the choice to like manipulate Mrs de Winter through the the Maid, I see what you're saying because in the book, to me, I'm like, Mrs Danvers would handle her own ship, like she wouldn't like delegate that manipulation to other people. Like I liked that in the book that like she is the one that she's doing, She's the one doing the game manipulation. Yeah, and I do, yeah, just from a writing perspective, and uh,

you know, christ and Scott Thomas perspective. You have this great actor and I think The reason why I was like, what at the montage was it was such flip as opposed to you could have you could see dan Verse like warm to Mrs de Winter and say like are you having trouble with your costume? But you could see the manipulation and just like you see in the book and you're like, don't do it. It's like saying like don't go into the basement or whatever in a horror movie,

and you don't get that in this one. It just goes from them not liking each other to a montage where they're planning a party. Yeah, it's like where someone if someone is mean to you, but in like a dominant way, there is something sort of like weird and manipulative. Then they kind of like give you a tidbit that you're like, oh, thank you, that's really helpful. Like I wanted to see that relationship laid out with it nance

health point. But what I said, even in the last one um for Rebecca and for the book, why on earth would she trust Mrs Danvers when she tells her to wear this costume. So for me, the reason it made sense for her to have her go through the main Clari's was because Clara's has no reason to lie or to not be friendly to Mrs de Winter. So that's what I liked about that, because it was a tactic. She was like, look, she's already tried to fire me. She is like very sauce right now. So if I

do this through Hoosie, what's it? She might actually wear this and I can get my revenge for the movie. I think that makes sense because in this book, Yeah, because in the book, why can keep calling her Rebecca Mrs i Am the American audience that is like Rebecca because she doesn't try to fire Mrs Danvers at the beginning like in the book. I love that Mrs Danvers is such a slow burn that there isn't anything, egregiously a red flag for Mrs de Winter that it would

make her feel untrustworthy. But in the I mean, in this movie, they're just like, I mean, yeah, because it does feel like it could have been a more interesting relationship like the book, Like you were saying, crama of the Regina George, who is so good at manipulating and is so good at like you're terrified of her. But then when she's nice to you and suggests you wear that top, you wear the top, you know, And I feel like that's what was missing in both movies. Frankly,

that's fair, that's absolutely fair. And both movies were directed by men who generally don't find themselves in those similar manipulative relationships. True. Do you think that making Clarise does it assumes that Clarice is dumb to the point of being treacherous. I think if she had any instant word self presentation, at least she requestioned whether or not that was advice that she should pass along immediately to her employer, a person who can fire her immediately. I bought her

as dumb. I bought her too. I kind of liked in the book the way that Danvers planted someone with her who had not been in the house before, because I think that that also sort of know dan versus sort of like spider touch, that she knew like, Okay, I'm not going to give her someone experienced you can like contradict me in anything, so I'm the only expert in the house. Um. But I guess that is also very subtle and maybe couldn't have been conveyed as visually.

But yeah, I think by empowering, I'm putting that in quotes like Lily James's character in like the most routine like Hollywood notes way, they totally undermine the point of the book, like she's not supposed to be confident. This is a weird arbitrary space with weird arbitrary rules where if you have not been raised in it, it is designed to make you feel. And that's why the turn in the book is so powerful when she does like

come into her power, because it's not real. It's her feeling like I am now on the team of this man. She's now like complicit with this murderer, and that's what gives her the power, and that's why it's so fucked up and and subversive. You know, she can only be she can only get her power, like like Jennifer said, by like totally subsuming her identity to her husband. Yeah, yeah, apology, you understand that you want to help your husband get away with her. No, I'm still not there. I will

never be there. There is no person on earth that would be my partner that I would help get away with murder and definitely not a man. Okay, So now that that's been put aside, I don't know your apology for that you will never apologize for that. What I do owe you an apology for is you were like, I think it's important that we never see Rebecca, and I was like, no, I want a dame named Rebecca, and they gave me the exact thing that I wanted, Like, I didn't like that for her to be in a

red dress. It's like, can you be more predictable? Like the vibe that I got was like, you know how when in the you Belong with Me music video by Taylor Swift, the villain like the girl that the boy is dating is Taylor Swift, but with brown hair, and when in a red dress, it gave me very like mid mid career Taylor Swift vibes. You know what was more upsetting than seeing Rebecca is to seeing the like um swarm of birds representing one of That was one of the three notes I had when I watched this.

I'm like, I wish the birds spelled out an R. I'm breaking with the rest of the movie. It might hang out on the top half spelled out? Are is that like supposed to be an homage to Yeah? Like what the hell? Which Daphne did? Mario also as they were like what if we just threw two Daphne's in one, throw some birds in there, put in a dame named Rebecca. We got the whole shebang. No, but I love birds more than anyone else in this chat. But I did

not with the birds were disrespected. Those birds were not my least favorite part of the movie. Every time about this movie, everybody's least favorite part. I'll go first and say my least favorite part was the action movie ten minutes or she alone drives to that she's got to find the doctor. No, you don't second for Mrs winter h. I mean this might be obvious, but my least favorite part was the end. Specifically, Can I read the last line? Because I posit and rewound it to write it down.

It made me so mad. I can see the woman I am now, and I know that I've made the right decision to save the one thing that is worth walking through Flames for love. No, that's the opposite of the books, because of this marriage, because he got shot in the face. Do you see the love? Oh my god, question Mark, it's not even an ending for this weird movie that I put together. But they didn't set that up at all. I have to go real quick walk through Flames for love. So let's take a break. Okay,

we're back with Popcorn Book Club. Armie Hammer as Maxim was the most boring thing I've ever seen. He's like a nonentity in this movie. Like when he was not on screen, I forgot he existed. Yes, I have to say a thing that I said about Armie Hammer before this movie came out. I told someone I said the words I feel as sorry for Armie Hammer as you can for a conventionally attractive, wealthy male movie star, because Hollywood has been trying to make him a star and

it just doesn't take. And then I watched this movie and I thought, maybe he just doesn't have it. I think you would have got a great Jack Alt. He's exactly who I amnted when I am ancing Jack developing like a little little puffy, Like was like unbelievably attractive ten years ago, but now like he's a little bit puffy and like maybe he drinks a little bit too much. He'd be perfect for that. Did he have a take on this character at all? Stiff Man? I mean, I'm

like Armie Hammer a lot. I think I'm probably a bigger fan of Armie hammert than he's great. I think he's it seems like a nice guy Onstagram, is very funny Sorry to Bother You. I thought he was really a movie. A movie just has to use him, right, Yeah, this feels like they kind of all the stuff that makes interesting this movie. They knew like a normal man who didn't seem like maybe he's a sociopath, a prommercial

Army Hammer take. So, I think that the problem is Armie Hammer is too hot and no, no, no, no, hear me out. He's too conventionally attractive to quote unquote hot. And I think that he has like character actor energy in him, because Sorry to Bother You is probably the closest he's ever come to like a character acting part. And that's where I think he shines the most. And all the things I've seen him in John Hammon energy, that James Marston, James Mars, Jamie Harrison problem. But he's

a really good character actor that West World, right. Yeah. I love James Marson. I love James Marson, but I think that's his problem is that he's so conventionally handsome. People don't always see what like a good actor, you know what. I am positive that Arnie Hammer will do like an amazing HBO show five years from now, and he'll have a lovely renaissance and it'll be a great Yeah. Yeah, he should be on succession. That would be amazing, That would be that would be perfect. Do well in The

Man from Uncle. I think I heard good things about that, but I never because I'm very fun. People supposed to stand for something I don't know, confused, and I'm not going to see it. He's he's fun in projects that like use his energy like in a fun way, and this was just like what if we don't I mean in the classics of the script, could anybody be used well? And that's what I felt like, both him and Lily James,

who I've seen both do good work. But that's why Defwite felt like a perfume mad because they just felt like pretty models that were just told to sort of. It just all felt very stilted, from the writing to the acting to the directing, like it was just it felt like people just going through the motions of what

a movie should be. Like what you were saying about the fact that like everything that made Maxim an active part of this original story is stripped away from the movie and like the worst parts of him is that he sleepwalks to the west, like that is supposed to

be the spookiest part about this man. Another loss I feel like in this movie and why I'm so mad about the take because it was such a lost opportunity to show an interesting modern take on an abusive relationship, where like the outbursts that Maxim has in the book and the way she describes his face changing. It's like, for one moment he's like just Maxim. In the next moment he's she's a person. He doesn't she doesn't recognize.

That feels like such an none of that was there, Like none of those Like he was mad at the rocks and just walked away and was like piss, pissy, but like not scary, and that's what you want. You want those moments of her being scared by him and

then it goes away. I think it also why he's attracted to women, Like I don't want a murder daddy myself, but people want to recognize that some women want a murder daddy, and that is an archetype of man that it can be like very attractive in part because they have these volatile move swings um and that is godship. Was there even a second in the movie where you thought that he still loved Rebecca and was mourning her?

Because he did not play that at all. He's he has to play it in a way where like you believe that Lily James up until that point thinks that he's being cold because he misses his ex wife, and this movie totally didn't do that at all, not for a split second. I have a question for the panel, um that my least favorite moment in this movie also connects to that. When they're on the beach and the romantic part is him taking little clumps of sand and

putting it on her shoulder. Did he spell out an M because she goes back and looks at it in the mirror. Was it a tanned I was very key, That's what I'm asking. That's what I didn't watching, is that is that fucking M on her shoulder? Because why I was I was just like, oh, that's a thing. I guess, okay, I know she at it. That's why I was like, do that makes sense again? A little

heavy handed? If that's what that is? Very heavy and that's like the idea of a sand brand like that sounds like a late night made like a seen on TV products sand brand when you want to mark something as yours, but you don't want it to be a permanent or painful sand But I like that if that is what happened, that we didn't get to see the full scene. So Maximum is like, okay, just lay right here. I'm going to put a clump of m on you. And then he's like, don't move. Don't move for an hour.

At least they didn't for he didn't for a second make Rebecca seem cool and like awesome, and they didn't for a second make Lily James seemed lame enough. Like that contrast is important. And also when he can confesses to the murder to me by this point, like he doesn't say anything that in any way justifies it at all, where at least like in the book, you like got his character and like what type of person he is? Where in this with this character you're like, what, yeah,

you murdered a lady. He seems like a very normal man, Like he seems like I think the normal human man reaction to your wife announcing that she's going to be non my opus, It's like, wow, we had a big miscommunication divorce. So yeah, it makes no sense that he would respond by letting this go off for ars and then shooting her and not just getting a divorce. So okay,

they tried to make it make sense. They didn't make it makes sense, but they tried to make it make sense in that scene where they're in the car driving and he was saying, oh, I have no airs and you know, if I die, my estate goes to my sister, and you know, I love her kids, but they're not de Winters. So the whole thing is that he needs to have de Winters at Manderly. Fine, okay, yeah, but like I think that's why he shot her because it was like, you can't prove that this baby is not

yours and it's just bang. But it's like he should have gotten That's that's why that reason makes sense in the reading of the book, where it's like he just likes our protagonist because she's like a young, fertile innocence, Like he does not care about her really as a person. He just wants someone he can kind of manipulate and doesn't Rebecca's like spunk getting there where it's like this guy and literally James like like a guy so obsessed

with his family legacy. You're like, all right, if he has like a crazy sense of humor, maybe he shot a guy, shot a lady and and now is married to this like nobody. Fine, But the way they play this as like a straight up love story, You're like, it doesn't track, it's now, it's just the most important thing is love, Okay. And I think the other problem with this with the idea of making it like a Will met love story where they both seem like very confident,

beautiful people. He would not marry a woman that confident, like his whole goal with his second wife should be I need a woman who will never cheat on me. I need a woman that I can pop airs out of, who will never so much with look at another man because she's too timid to do that. And um, Louis das a pretty confident from the beginning. I mean, she's not cheating with Jack Favell, but like, give up five more visits. I don't know if something could happen. Yeah,

she was not writing. She was not writing side saddle. She was writing us ride like they did make Lily James. Is that what they teach you at prep school? Karama. That is not what they teach us at prep school. That's just me projecting onto the nineteen forties. I think that's when this was. It also was not clear when it was sometime after ninety five and before nineteen anyway. Sorry,

I was just going to say. They did make Lily James's character stronger, but also they made her really weepy in ways that didn't feel like her Her naivete from the book was never It never felt like that. It felt more like her being insecure and more internal, and it would like she would have these flights of fancy that would never take her to like full on almost

being in tears at every single like conflicted scene. Like I was like, she did not have a boss in the book, screaming to a large she was always That's what I was saying about Mrs van Hopper because I kind of liked Mrs van Hopper from the book and from the first she was in a normal way, like

everything has an aunt. That's kind of that, you know, It's like, oh she was she was supposed to be attacking American, and they didn't make her American either, which is like and dad could have to slam dunk she could be attacking American. Yeah, I couldn't tell if she wasn't American or if she was doing a like mid Atlantic accent. I just like was like, what's happening and it was. I think this woman would be more popular than this van Hopper in the book is he's a

crazy polster, extremely interesting. I would love to part this. She seems honestly very fun, I mean, deeply brow get somebody's face and that every party if it goes well. I do love people throwing drinks in people's face. I just want to see it happen. Um And I feel like if I met my slady on vacation, she would make sure it happened. And probably I didn't feel I didn't feel like Lily James was like helpless enough, which sort of needs to be to need to lead her

identity onto this guy. And then because they were like, okay, let's make this a two handed love story, the character like they made every wrong choice because if if Mrs van Hopper is that insane, this only James wouldn't work for her. No, she's They made her clumsy, like like a rob clumsy person, just like dropping stuff. The beginning of the scene where you're supposed to that whole monologue where she's like, I don't really know much. I haven't seen the world, and she like walks in front of

a group photo. I'm like, yeah, you're drumb for doing that, but like you shouldn't better than that. She's and she's like having conversation with Maxim where it's like she's very outspoken and yeah. I think the part where I was like, oh no, and it ever, I knew it was going to be bad was when she was like she talks about like some plant that she knows about, and it's like, oh, you know a lot of things like oh, I read a lot about it in books, but I've never seen

the world. And I'm like, oh no, you just in a movie. Can we also say, being delivered a plate of bad cold ham and being too embarrassed to say anything is way funnier and more relatable than being banned from the terrorists or for accidentally ordering oysters in the morning. You know, I actually really like I was like that I would do that. Did she did she order twelve twelve? She ordered because she ordered some oysters? Yeah, I just I thought I know she was trying to say some

eggs right. No, she just was repeating what the fancy lady had said with no context and no understanding of what the food was, which also is insane to me, because like I like to know what I'm putting in my body before I asked for it, so like I don't know, I would order a food I knew about, and I would be attacking American and be like what does this mean? She also she also just kind of if she's just gotten the same thing that he got.

Oh no, I can talk absolutely doing that because she wants she wants to seem like she's a sophisticated person and one order in fresh and it's an order that she heard the lady at the next table make yesterday. I definitely have done that in France, like just being really embarrassed and like looking at what's on the menu and then hearing something like lemm shows Minley's paper thing is actually very minor. But it bothered me a lot.

Is that the dog was not as cute as the nineteen forties version dog, Like I just didn't I felt nothing for this dog. I criticized the casting directors who cast that dog. There aren't that many dog guys in Hollywood hero. Hopefully I never need a dog for anything, because they're gonna hear this and they're just gonna black life. I don't know. I think there is really good dog casting. I forget what it was recently, but I was watching a movie with Jeremy and I was just like, completely

sincerely said that's a really good dog actor. And he looked at me just started laughing and I didn't mean to. I meant it. It was a really good dog actor. Sometimes dogs do a really good job. I got the Jasper in the nineteen forties, Rebecca was killing it. I loved that dog. I cared a lot about that dog. He was a cute dog, and this dog was cute. These dogs were very, you know, like aesthetically pleasing dogs.

They were good looking dogs. But I was just kind of like, you're a plot device and I don't care about you at all. Yeah, They're acting was wasn't grounded whatsoever. It was a little over the top. They're not nominated for an that's the dog dosar Okay, neither neither movie did this, and I understand because it might not like communicate well visually. But a thing that I realized I

missed about the book was something that I like. I feel like not many has not been portrayed to me in book or film or television, and yet it's a feeling I find very relatable, the feeling of like being in a big house and now it's mourning, and like being very bored and like you can't do anything. She just like doesn't know where anything is, and her husband is gone and Mrs Sandfords is taken care of anything everything, and she's just like, what do I do now? Like?

I like that, and I think that would be difficult to convey on screen, but would be good. I love that. But that was that anxiety, you know, but you're not you're not in your home. You're not in your home, you're in you're in some it's like waking up before your friend had a sleepover. Yeah, I've never been bothered by country house weekends. I find it you've ever said country house weekends plural, that's what knows weekends. I was

about Jen. I was about to say, well, you know, I think that you're a little more comfortable around immense wealth than some of us. But I think you took care of that. Oh my god, country house weekends. I love that. Magazine I've been subscribing. Now you're going to be e can't be a breakfast when everybody's ready like around him? And what do you do? What are you doing for graduating? And you could scatch sure you can

go to the card walk. I'm up. So let's ask each other what we thought the best part of the movie was. I can't take this anymore, my god, I want to have a country house weekend on weekend. I am very available for a country house weekends. Jennifer, I don't believe in then, so I don't think people should own more homes than they can live in it one time. But I'm sure, totally totally agreed. But I am open to anyone listening to this with a country house. I'm

okay with it. I'm totally comfortable and have a very nice talk. Yeah, and I will bring you a basket of Janssenda. Thank you card. Yeah, you guys are writing billionaire son right now. Okay, that is the movie. I made him a movie. It bottles of homemade vanilla. If you invite me to your country home weekend, I'll bring you homemade vanilla with a card. I literally cannot make this country home weekend conversation. All right, let's favorite part

of this movie wasn't Bracka's Weird beat Shock. It seemed really fun. It seemed like she had some good times here. There were like a lot of empty champagne bottles scattered around, interesting wee things, nice blankets like it's a weird paintings there that I clearly didn't fit in the main house. She's a little fun place. I bet you had good times there. I liked it. I like the cottage for Goblin core Vibebecca's weird little beat shack. Grandma was your

favorite thing? Grandma? I love. I rated her in the movie. She wasn't in nineteen forty, but she was in twenty and I kind of liked that they took away the sort of it felt like an Alzheimer's moment in the book, where like where's Rebecca, Where's Rebecca? But in this she's just like, no, you're not married to my grandson. That's silly. It wasn't Rebecca is married to him. It's no, you definitely aren't. I don't know who you are. I don't know what this is. I just I don't buy it.

I don't believe it. That's not my grandson. You're not that bitch, And I love that one quick thing I really like. My favorite thing is I liked a lot of the costumes. But one note that I had with the Caveat is why did he wear that same mustard suit? Because he's very rich, do not wear the same ugly suit?

And also, I imagine that this is a movie. I would I mean, it was directed by a man, but I would have hoped they realized that, like women would like it and want it, and Armie Hammer is a really attractive man, and like women might want to look at him. Why didn't we get like good shots of him and like well cut suits and like Vulture you that we all ready They specifically called out the bile yellow suit. You know what it makes me think of the costuming that I would have loved is um in

Lovecraft Country. The the Alexander Skarsgard looking guy that is actually the girl. The way he dresses, that's good. That's for women. Um and came in you know anyone who's attracted to men. But I will say my favorite part was the casting of all of the the Downstairs The Help. I loved christ and Scott Thomas. I loved Firth. I loved Um the Maid, that her maid. She was such good casting and I love and I loved the downstairs party that she goes into the kind of Titanic looking

like party, and that books fun. I wanted more of them and their drama. Yeah, I just wanted down to nappy. I kind of want most things that have like service people to be down to nabby where it's like, Wow, these are fully rounded, three dimensional characters, and I like care about Carson, Yeah, I care so much. My favorite part of this movie is Kristen Scott Thomas. She absolutely made this film for me. Anytime she was on screen,

I was just like, oh not. She's like a fox first of all, and just smoldering the whole time and so scary, like so scary. I couldn't. I can picture myself being like a a person just like in this big house and Mrs dan And if she starts walking towards me, I will be scared and turned on at the same Yeah. The Purpose movie that I hated the most because I did not catch to say my least favorite part is when Danvers kills herself. There is nothing of part of her character that leads me to believe

that she would ever do that. She survived the loss of her lover slash daughter. She's not gonna jump off a cliff because she couldn't drive the second and sister Winter to suicide after she just won. She just burnt down the house. Good for her, go to France. Yeah, leave. I like and like a tone of ambiguity where you almost I mean, you know she burns down the house, but like you don't know know it like the book

ends at the perfect moment. Yeah. Um, and I hate Lily James having should try to help her at the last night. Just first of all, I don't think you should have any relationship with someone who tries to crack you just suicide. Um, and just like that right out there, I think it is insane that you would talk to Nanrew's at all, let alone try to pull her back from a cliff. I'm gonna go sand brand my partner right now with my letters of my name, so I'll

be right back in a few hours. Actually, all right, so let's get back into it. I need to shift the conversation before this goes on too long. To the climax of the movie. This like Courtroom in Quest of I will say A thing that I thought was very prescient about the book is how the system is designed to make the white rich landowner as comfortable as possible

throughout the entire thing. And I thought that was very funny and like spot on an astute that at every turn the magistrate and the corner was like, we are so sorry Max, So we don't mean to inconvenience you, Mr de Winter, and we just this, we have to do it. Oh no, your wife was shot, but oh no, it's not like we would ever want to inconvenient too. And this they're like, nobody is above the law. But I will say I didn't think it was prescient of the book. I think it was an accurate depiction of

always yes, sorry, well well said, well said. But yeah, I did like the Lawyer just in terms of like liking a legal drama, and like all I do right now is watch Law and Order with my mom on we TV because they have all of the episodes every day cent when we show it on BBC America. Yeah, there there's always Law and Order on and that's what we watch. But I like the Lawyer for that because he did feel kind of like a district attorney Jack McCoy.

But I didn't like that in terms of that's literally not what would happen in this place, in this time with this person in this book that was sourced for this, like did you read Yeah, And the fact that they made it like paparazzi, like the book is they wanted it to be discreet for a reason. It's because they were trying to protect Maxim and like for them to turn it into this whole like circus, turn it into Chicago, Um,

I was like not digging it whatsoever. And yeah, it just felt like every step of it was a real misunderstanding of the book, which is so strange because there is a movie already that mostly like they got it roughly like seventy percent of the way and I'm like, nail, yeah, And it's like, oh, the whole point of that back sequence is like the tension building and then it gets released and then there's a new tension and then it gets released and a new tension and released and you

know it's going to end badly, but you don't know how. Um. And so it just feels like dread building on dread building on dread, and they just like we're gonna be like this is now it's an episode of law and order,

Like what's happening? It's really subtle and funny to me when uh, when Favel and when Favel's at the house and keeps demanding more drinks and he's really like uncouth and you can tell that even though he is right, and the reader knows he's right, you're like, yeah, of course the police is, Oh, it's going to be fully on maxim side because this is just like and that scene that they cut from this movie that was in the Hitchcock movie that I think was maybe my favorite

scene in the book was when it's Favel and de Winter and Mrs de Winter and then the cop comes, the magistrate comes over, and then Mrs Danvers comes in and Frank is there, and it just feels like, wow, that is such a fun scene to film because it is such a like building and there's so many people and they're all just there's like a little furtive glances going back and forth. Then it's just like that feels fun and cinematic and they're just like who knows what?

Who's going to reveal what? Yeah. I also owe an apology to Alfred Hitchcock because I feel like I now appreciate the artistry of Rebecca. It was a much better movie than I gave it credit for last week. And I retract some of my statements, which ones you can guess it's hard to make a good Rebecca adaptation. I think we've learned. And good job Alfred Hitchcock. Congratulations picture this. This movie did a better job of what we had

talked about. That was missing from the Hitchcock film was just like the little hints of Rebecca in in the you know, the handkerchief and in the in the hair brush, like those little moments where she's constantly haunted or she's just her presence is there, but she's not like running away in a red dress. But they like did both, which I thought was totally unnecessary, but they did do a better job of that, just like how her ghost is there in the objects, and like how the house

is held. And the handwriting was better, Oh my god. Yes, yes, the handwriting was what I was after and gorgeous. I will say, after this movie, I googled personalized stationary and made we want to getty. It was so pretty. Somethings on their way to country House weekend, Oh my god, and we got, sorry, a glimpse of the flower room

she ran through. I really like something that I think was in the book, also because it was the r um, but something I really like about the fact that Rebecca's personalized, stationary, and like her pillowcase and all this crap has an R and it's never a DW for de Winter, and it's very much that like, no man can own Rebecca. She is Rebecca, and I really like that. And nobody tried to make it an R D W at any point.

They're like, no, it's an R. We're not going to have a dame named Rebecca, except in this version they did. But you're gonna see her in that pillow case. It does make me really wish, though, that either I or my future husband had a last name with a D E at the front of it, because I think there's something very cool about an R D E lower case W, and I would love like an M D E lower case something your name, you know, Darcy Cardon, the actress from The Good Place, her name didn't have She added

that apostrophe. Yeah, when she was like fifteen, you know, like every every child like changed their name to make it more interesting. Some of us started to do that. Did you all like the part where she has that bad dream and she's walking in the hallway and she gets eaten by the flower. I don't like any dream sequence almost. Yeah, I will say the best dream sequence in cinematic history is the opening scene from Bringing On. Yeah. I'm not thinking you're right, Yeah, that is great. I

think it's open dreams. I don't hate that. Yeah, A goofy movie has a cold open dream. That's the person only example. These are feel like we need to be covering. I'm racking my brain for a cold open dream. I can't think of one right now, Jennifer. I did want to make very clear. I want to say, even though as someone who would say you were right, or die for your husband if he eat murders, I will say this as someone who knows and loves Daniel. I think he's great. I am very very glad you did not

change your name and remain Jennifer. Right the initial rebecca and are not Jennifer. Um it's yeah. Uh. The only person who felt strongly about me changing it was my dad who really found that I should change it to my husband's name. But your name is so much better. Sorry, Daniel. I mean we we all loved Daniel very very much.

But yeah, I had written, I had my second book coming out by different I was engaged, Like it just didn't really make sense for I could never figure out how I was going to have this name that I published books under and I did all my writing under, but I also had a different name at home, and like, what name would I give to people if I was out in public? And day just really honestly seemed easier

to keep my own. And it wasn't like a twenty one year old woman getting married when I had an accomplished professional things yet I'd written a bunch of books under my name. Also, Alt No Shade Kimble Smith is a silly sounding name. It is a very silly sounding there. It's it's a real choice on Peter's part that they wanted to go down that road. We should all add the D before our last name. So the end, oh

the engine, this is the thing. They turned it into a grand love adventure where actually manderlike burning down was a blessing in disguise because they can travel the world together as young age appropriate lovers thoughts, and also they're in Cairo, like what was that they're supposed to be in Cleveland. He would never he would never be in Cairo. Maxim would not go to Cairo when too hot and

there are too many brown people. Yeah, what I really needed for that scene was like if you know, if she was reading a book and he grabbed it out of her hands and was like, you're seeing the world now and like three little crow, Yes, yes, you don't need to read to read, and then she was like

love is real. What they need to do is go into a cafe or some like I don't know, something that's like Cairo specific, that's culturally specific to where they are, and then meet somebody else who is of the West and haven't be Judy Greer. And then she becomes best friends with Willie James and I love that. I love Judy Greer and I wanted to be in every movie. It was would always bring your movie up a few notches. I agree, what a jarring way to end a movie to that at all? No, it was. It was odd.

It was very odd and very uncomfortable, and I was like, wait, did I miss the whole point? Yeah, the point in if you're super well your husband and you definitely put up at the fact that he shot his last like, hey, you play detective for him? Do you get to live happily ever after? On a beautiful, all expensive paification around

the world. The thing about the book Rebecca is the husband maximum Gasola actively gaslights her the entire time by not having a simple conversation and making her actively think for a good reason that he is still tortured by the thought of and love for his first wife. He is a bad husband and those that cannot be. That plot is also not compatible with like and he's a

Cairo adventured Yeah, it's a it's a unhappy ending. It's intentionally like this woman like, yeah, it's gasolt the whole time, and then she gets drawn in and then she's quote unquote in love. But we're so far along in with and we understand who this man is and who she is that we know it's not real and that it's a trap and that it's bad, and now she's stuck with him forever. The other thing that really bothered me about it was the choice of the narration in the

beginning in the end, because it felt like such a cheat. A. But B if you're going to do it, then just have narration the whole fucking time, because like, then, just let's be with her. Let's be with her and understand her point of view, instead of it being like so, dear reader, like my dear audience, here's how this story ends. Like it just felt like a weird fairy tale ending. So what you're saying is you wanted a fleabag breaking

of the fourth wall throughout the entire movie. I would love that people who wrote this movie listen to this second and take all of our good suggestions like putting Judy Greer in there and breaking the fourth wall and is redo the whole thing, Rebecca, It would be a fun mate wild and let's see what happened, you know, Melissa, when you were quoting the very last line. I also love that this Mrs de Winter chose like we walked through fire. No, that you through the murder. Murder is

the thing that you are working through. They literally did not want to was on fire. The maids walked through fire. Her active choices and I'm putting all this in quotes as a strong female protagonist. At the end, her frantic little drive to the doctors totally pointless because the second they opened those folders they know she has cancer. If the movie really wanted to commit to that, it would be the she opened the things, saw that Rebecca was pregnant,

and like destroys it. At least that is committing to this choice. This is like weird and passive, but that's like for a different But they're trying to move, They're trying to make it, but have it both ways of like having it be oh, yes he did murder her, but also we love them for it. Like it's just like what are they good or bad? Like what are you trying to say? I have a question, Yes, a logistical question. All right, So house burns down, sad sad, cry, cry,

All the maids are out of work? What are they going to do? Set that aside for a second. Focus on the rich home. You don't care about them, they're not people. Focus on the rich, hot protagonists. They have now gone to travel the world looking for a new, permanent home together, free from the specter of Rebecca. Okay, I don't agree with that life choice, but understand it in the context of the film. But where is ster

de Winter getting his money? Because my understanding was that he had generational wealth that was invested in the house and the estate, and that all of the money came from like in downtown Abbey. How they have the estate and there are people that rent, and there are farms and things like that. Like that's my understanding of estates

based on doubt Nabbey. How they travel into Cairo where they get Cairo money, I will say, based on my limited historical research or knowledge, Actually those houses are often very very expensive and upkeep and if you all have to now yeah, and so that's like why they tore it. So actually, if you have generational wealth, it's and you want to keep your generational wealth, those houses hemorrhage money where like actually it is smarter to like burn it down or sell it or get rid of it and

just have the money. So shoot, did them because starting it insurance? They did? They get insurance money? Yeah? Someone arson that not them. They weren't even there, yeah for them not Yeah, they didn't walk through fire. And then they're going to do to Cleveland Beauty. Financially, it's a great decision for them. Those houses are huge money sucks and and actually like a drain on wealthy family's income.

Um yeah, yeah, And now they're gonna I guess be in Cairo, even though the whole point of Maximum de Winter, Sorry I'm rant again is that he is a boring bad guy who was provoked to murder his wife, and he is boring and wants a wife who will not challenge him in any way. And now, good for you second, Mrs de Winter, you get to read to him in a beige hotel room. M hmm. Yeah, it's like a

no exit sort of ending. Yeah. Yeah, Rebecca was literally killed and now the seconds you're slowly dying for you know, foreable feature with her husband who doesn't who doesn't love her? You are either literally or metaphorical by the patriarch. Yes, well, I like Beatrice. I would say she lost a little bit of her bite from the book and from the first movie. But she was the only woman helping woman that made sense to me. Where she was like, let's just get you in a new dress. You're gonna go

back down there. You are not gonna let somebody trick you into leaving your own party that you planned. You're a big girl, so put on your big girl nightgown and go downstairs. Very ugliest. Let's put you in the ugliest we ever seen. It was a costume party. So I think that they were like, it's it's ugly costume. She's ugly costume. It did feel very um, very like a girl's in a bathroom, you know, like one of

them is crying. It's like, all right, let's get that eyeliner effects and then you're just gonna go out and funk your ex boyfriend who cares that he's with today you you forget about Steve. Steve can go to hell and you can have a great time with Meredith, and you're gonna have a great time with me. I just picked names out of the hat. I don't know. Meredith are no the immediate support network of drunk women. Yeah,

that's the best, and I can. We spent a lot of time ragging on the women supporting women of this film, and it's because it felt an authentic and out of place, not because of that idea is something we are again. But I just I think that that was the one instant, the most word all women supporting in the montage. If it's turned otherwise, get it out of our money, Well you don't. If you're friends with every single other woman, that's really true, shared experiences and like usually they don't

try to practice suicide and then be their friends. So yeah, if they're cold, imposing monsters bitches to you, you don't have to have a fun party montage. Yeah. A part of felinism is not having being forced to like every woman. Yes, yes, And I think she should have stuck to her guns with firing Mrs Danvers. She should be like, you know what, it's very nice that you have this remorse. Now take

that to your new job. Yeah, it's an easy firing too, Like I just have my own people, like people I have a relationship with, and I really think that they're going to be able to run the house away. I

see it being run. I'm so mad that they had her try to fire Mrs Danvers because the whole point is that she's too insecure exactly know how to run up this massive estate, which is huge, and then to know like, oh maybe all like house masters are like this, like you know, maybe I'm just being too sensitive, like she's a little insecure mouse. Yeah, Mrs she is not of her she is no, I mean, she is not

hashtag girl boss. Yes, grandma, but she's never seen down to Abbey, so she doesn't know you, we don't know what year this takes place, so we actually do not know she's never seen down Navvy End where they were, like here, where are I mean? And I'm not saying that you have to hit us over the head with

what year it was. I do know that they did have the invitation for the Maskball from Rebecca in so I think that was supposed to ground us, but also just kind of it felt maybe because I don't know enough about fashion and what clothes would have been in style in a specific year, including this one, because I'm bad at fashion. But eight was the year of the

mustard suit. But like I kind of wanted to know when it's Mrs de Winter's or second Mrs de Winter's outfit, and I was like, oh, I just saw that on and other stories like that's how I wasted pant and blouse. I know that. Look, I know a lot more pants than I thought she would. But she's supposed to wear only Uly skirts. She's not. Yeah, both literally and metaphorically, she wore a lot of pants that we weren't expected. Look, I think if they did, the inevitable story from Rebecca's

perspective that I pretty play surprise doesn't already exist. Lily tanks would have been a great person to playback. She could have worn lots of pants and written ran about horses and strike and a lot of girl power montashas with Mrs Stanfords, Jennifer, I feel like you have your next book. Oh I mean wow, um talk somebody hasn't done up. I think would be a great Rebecca. And Rebecca is Rebecca Hall. Oh, Rebecca's Rebecca because she's very tall.

Got that person explain her to me. I know her because in the movie Starter for ten she plays the first Jewish British girl I saw in the movie when I was a kid. Yeah, she was in thick Christina Barcelona. Okay, she sounds lovely. You think she would go, Oh, she's in she's very confident that what I know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I got her and she's British. Something something I wrote down when I watched the movie is that Maxim was like, Oh, you wanted to see the world, so come with me

to Manderley And I'm like, that's literally just her house. Yeah. That is the craziest most straight white man thing I've ever heard anyone say you wanted to see the world, come to my house? Like can you imagine getting that text at two in the morning from a dude named like Chad, just like, hey, I know you said you wanted to see the world. I got a place for you to start drop that stuff. Yeah, mm hmm. It's well. I will say I thought he did a pretty good

British accent sounded. I was not bothered by his British accent. It seemed fairly inoffensive to me. Good job, I forgot he wasn't British. Yeah, I guess I did too. On that note, good job Hammer, You're you're doing your best. Jen You're making a face that it wasn't a good British accent. But here's what I want to say. Counterpoint, Peter Dinklig in all of Game of films, like, there are some middling British accents, and Armie Hammers was like, not great, he didn't I didn't think he was British.

I wasn't like, oh yes, British actor Armie Hammer, but when he was talking, it wasn't like, yo, that's an Americ. See I also a fantasy show. It's like a rich I have fucking dragons. Are you going to say? Well, I was gonna say I forgive just fine British accent from an American because we are constantly bombarded by British actors who went to fucking Rada who are like, I know how to do a Southern accent, no problem, and everyone's like, oh wow, this wonderful British woman can do

a accent from Georgia. It's perfect and that's never right. But it is hard to accents and they're like, how dare you touch the RP when they when Americans try to do it, like he was fine, you get enough to like make make it not a problem. It was the least defensive, very offensive movie. Again, thank you for listening to Popcorn Book Club from Dana di Schwartz, Karamada, Ti de Tran, Jennifer dr Wright, and Melissa D. Hunter

Like a good sign up. I'm Danis Schwartz and you can find me on Twitter at Danis Schwartz with three z s. You can follow Jennifer Wright at jen Ashley Wright. Karama down Qua is at Karama Drama, Melissa Hunter is at Melissa f t w and Tian Tran is smart enough to have gotten off Twitter, but she is on Insta at Hank Tina Our Executive producer is Christopher Hessiotes were produced and edited by Mike John's Special thanks to David Wasserman. Next week we are going back to Lovecraft Country.

We'll get some more screen time to talk about the second half of the season of HBO's adaptation. Popcorn book Club is a production of I Heart Radio.