Rebecca (Part 2)

murder me and then his life will be ruined. She knew how to arrange a party, she knew how to arrange a floral arrangement, she knew how to orchestrate a murder. I'm realizing now we didn't even talk about the plot, but there really is very little plot in one sentence. In one sentence, Uh, the second Mrs de Winter, who's the narrator we never know, start as a paid companion to an awful American in Monte Carlo. She meets this was paid by and doubt I can't wait. That really

so fun. She meets uh, a handsome widower named Max to Winter, whose first wife died in a mysterious accident that no one wants to talk about. She goes back to Manderley, his ancestral home, finds it haunted by the everyone's memory of how fabulous Rebecca was. And then, as we mentioned, we find out that she was I don't want to say sociopath, but had tendencies that the lay person might call a sociopath. Uh. She and Maxim never

were in love. She was a wild philanderer and had many lovers, and Mrs Danvers was loyal to her the entire time. And Max murdered her because she said she was pregnant with uh Jack's baby. But then spoiler alert twist, she wasn't actually pregnant. She was never pregnant. She had uterine cancer I believe, or cancer of some sort. And so the whole thing, she was trying to gone girl and trick Max into murdering her so at least she

would go quick and then maybe Mac would get in trouble. Right, Yeah, yeah, that's good summary. I was like, I'll just do it super fast, get it out of the way. I was just gonna say, like the whole gone girl part of it, it made me really happy that at least Rebecca got her last joke you know, and that she like died smiling. It's just so it is a very sociopath thing to do. I'm just saying, it's like, I'm so happy that my husband's going to murder me and then his life will

be ruined. But yeah, it was, I mean, it was very she she got it, she got hers in, she's gonna die, She's gonna go out for a little. She knew how to arrange a party, she knew how to arrange a floral arrangement, do a decorade of room. She knew how to orchestrate a murder. Side and again, like I know that the second Mrs de Winter really wants to believe that Rebecca was a sociopath, and Um and Maxim and apparently I do too, and Max I really

want as this woman is associate paths. But Max a list two people that can super confirm that Rebecca was a sociopath for him, and it's Frank and it's his sister. Um. His sister does not seem to play into the idea of like Rebecca was the sociopath, we're also glad she's Dand his sister calls the second missister went about the phone. It's like she never would have committed suicide. This is crazy. You should look into it. That's not the way you behave if you think, I'm so glad this sociopaths is,

but it was the sociopath. But also think they were murdered. But I still don't think they do. She deserved to be murdered. And I also think for me, it was just about Danny's description of her and made her and I think I think she hit it. Rebecca even hid it from the sister. I think the sister was sort of charmed by her public face but didn't like her because she maybe slept with her husband. She definitely went after the husband. So don't think that Beatrice was on herself.

So Beatrice was sort of like I'm sure she was always like publicly charming to Beatrice, but then like Stuft with her husband said, she's like, no, I don't like her, but like she might like she sucks, but like she was always chilling. Yeah, I think Beatrice and her brother killed her. I think I don't think so. I think she's very nice. I thought I thought Beatrice was was one of the few redeeming characters in the book. Like she was very, very nice to the new Mrs Dewinter

tried to like help her out whenever she could. When the whole dress thing happened, she was the only one who was like, hey girl, come on, let's take this off till out per minute. Uh. And you know we've all had that, you know, I have experienced dressing up for Halloween and becoming a bit of a mess and then your friend is helping you in contume, which is hilarious. So the thought of her like running around like in

her fully culturally appropriate apple boy. But oh boy, but like that image to me is very funny to like help help a gal pal out when you're like fully in halloween costume. Is that's fun? Good job? Yeah? Oh yeah? Can we also just talk more about Mrs dan Verse, who plis? I think you accurately clocked, Wasn't you said the most interesting character in the book? Uh? Tian, what

are your what are your dan Verse feelings? I mean, after after you learn that, like she clearly knows that this this very close person of her was murdered by this man. Like the fact that she is even being remotely chill about it, I'm like, she's really holding it together, Like I know she's kind of mean and cold to the Mrs the new Mrs de Winter, but I find it to be I have a question, do we think we're sure Mrs Danvers thinks it's murder or did she

actually believe it was a voting accident. I think she believes. I think it's because like they talk about how Rebecca is so proficient at sailing that she like she wouldn't have had mistakes. And I also think that confirmation to me in retrospect was her having Jack come over when when Maxim was out and like make sure everyone else was out because they want to talk ship. They want

to talk it and be like, yeah, she didn't. Like they want to talk about how she got murdered and what to do about it, And I think she was laying in wait, you really don't think it's that. I think mus really wants to believe that Rebecca had what would be for her a good death. U that Rebecca never wanted to grow old, she she was so strong, like the Mrs Dancrews wants to think the only thing that could conquer this indomitable woman is she talks about

how like, yeah, she didn't die for a man. The scene that could take her UM, and I think, as someone who is Rebecca's mother and maybe love her UM, that's really tolerable for her. And I think she just wants to get together with jack because jack Um and Rebecca had this really close relationship, and she also had a really close relationship with Rebecca. Like the only way that they can kind of remember her is if they get together and tell stories about her, which is sad

but makes perfect sense. And the reason I think all of this is because if Mrs Andrews had no one that Maxim killed her, she would have burned down that house of media, like she would not have weighted until he was all and I take it back. I also think that, like, just like you said, that monologue she's giving when she's suicide murdering the second Mrs de Winter, she makes it very clear that she thinks it was

an accident. I full believe that Mrs Danvers has some sort of sexual tension with Rebecca, like that was immediately, especially in that segment where she talks about how like, oh, sex was just a game for her, it was all a game, And I'm like, oh, did you play the

game and lose? Maybe I'm so sorry um. But I think that Mrs Danvers is fascinating in the art of psychological warfare in a way that is not fair to the new Mrs Winter, because it's like she went out to the battlefield wearing like her fuzzy slippers and Mrs Danvers is like a trained Amazon warrior from Greek mythology.

It's not a fair fight. And I think that it's really fascinating to watch that dynamic, and it sort of mirrors the fact that there's this also uneven dynamic between Maxim and the new Mrs de Winters, and she's like at both terms. The person who's supposed to help her with the household stuff so that she can try and even out her relations with Maxim is like psychologically trying to annihilate her. And I find that dynamic really intriguing, which is why I said I think that there are

some really interesting things about the story. I just did not like the way that the things were written, and so I'm excited to see the adaptations. And I think that's the thing about an adaptation. Sometimes you'll like a book and not like the movie, and something like a movie and not like a book. I will say about dan versus. One thing that I wanted to say about why I find her so fascinating is this kind of reframing of her throughout the book. And because in the

beginning she is the ultimate antagonist. She's like the living, breathing version of like, this is Rebecca's home, I'm going to make your life a living hell for our narrator. And I hated her, and you know, I understood she was pissed, but she's channeling it to the wrong person. Like, if you're pissed Maxim got over Rebecca so fast, be mad at Maxim. Don't be mean to this poor girl. Uh, And that I mean and the fancy dress thing. It's like the end the day after with her like literally

being like killing herself. But but then it's this whole flip of like she's realizing, you know, as Jennifer Riley point out pointed out that that Rebecca did not die on her own accord, that Maxim killed her. And it's this building mounting evidence and just this horrible, great new kind of grief for her, for this mother who like

essentially mother who lost her child. And and then she becomes kind of the protagonist at the end in a weird way of like being like, oh, the system is not going to get this man, so I am going to ruin his life. And I loved that arc. Nobody treats her like a mother who lost her child, and that is infuriating to me. She from acency and people are all like, oh, dead, you will run the estate. She's clever, We'll fire her if she doesn't do a

good job for you. Um No, like this, this woman is clearly clinging to Manderly because it is the last remnant of her child. That's why I think the psychological warfare is warned well from from Danny's From Danny's perspective, Max bring it on. You know her, his beloved wife, who's the most amazing person in the world dies in tragic ways. He's almost like good riddens, and then less than a year later brings home this teenage nobody to

where Rebecca lived. The outrage, Yeah, I just felt like the outrage was misplaced on this for naive girl, that's like, what's going on. I'm so sorry for existing and not being mad at Maxim who like brings you don't know, you choose, Yeah, just in advance. If I die, your mysterious circumstances, and Daniel marry somebody else who was nineteen

and under your burned down my fucking house. That went without saying okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, take it out on another woman, honestly, for burning down the house of any man over the age of forty that marries a woman under the age of twenty, regardless of prior relationships. Just burn it down. Just burn it. It's not normal. I don't think that I think that there's something going on there. I personally think that we should take breaks from this discussion,

much like I took a break from reading the book. Okay, we're back with Popcorn book Club. On one character that we haven't mentioned yet, but who I think is also a Beatrice and it's very sweet, is Frank the property manager. Well, I love very sweet and very nice to the second Mrs de Winter. And you get the impression that Rebecca made unwanted advantage to him and he did not know how to handle it. He truly did not know. She was the most beautiful woman I bet creature. But also

he was very complicit in the whole dang thing. I think he's the only one who really knew what happened. Uh oh yeah, I guess he did so. I he did cover a murder. He did. He also seems like that like the buddy of like the hot, like popular quarterback that's always like wanting to be like he wants. Oh yeah, I was thinking of Michael Sarah if they had made this in two thousand seven. I do like that him driving her back from the inquest after she fainted and they're both in the car, not sure if

the other one knows that Maxim murdered her. Yeah, they both know that Maxim murdered this lady, and they both want him to get away with it. They have to communicate that somehow. Okay, we actually, oh my god, there's woulda be so good with the modern apptation because with like Instagram, you always know like how beautiful your new boyfriend or husband's X was. Yeah, yeah, that there was something when she when she's like, I'm just gonna go to the West Wing. I'm not gonna look, I'm just

gonna go. It felt like somebody like I'm just gonna check her Instagram. I'm just gonna look for one second. I'm not going to go back to two thirteen. Absolutely not. That's crazy, who would do that? And just to see her body, what does it say? Oh my gosh, oh I love it her profile because just like Rebecca's if all her Instagram is just her on the boat, like it's just her on the sailing. Rebecca is a wellness

but she writes. She writes thank you notes in fountain pen with like homemade baked goods that she sends everything feeling that girl. What's her name? Who started? Who founded moon Juice? Amanda shawntal Bacon's her? That's that's like. But I think fundamentally and like the aesthetic of it, I think she's like very classy like that, like the bo and the handwritten notes, and like she knows she's like a handwritten toastess. Has wonderful parties, like themed parties. She's fun. Yeah,

I want her. I want her handwriting as a font. Like that should be a good marketing campaign for this because the way they describe it looks gorgeous. Who do we think the dan Verses in modern modern day? I think the casting is actually perfect. I think Kristin Stewart so good. She's going to be really good. Yeah, that's a very good one. I'm just now I'm really disappointed that and Owd plays the lady at the beginning, because she's only at the beginning and I want more and

owed you know, she'll chew up the furniture. They'll just be like, all right, and Dowd, why don't you do one for fun like that, she just gets to go on some runs. Yeah, that this marriage was not gonna

work out. I mean she was. She wasn't wrong, but she was wrong for the reason she wasn't wrong, you know what I mean, Like she was being a jealous necessarily, like looking out for her and being like, hey, sweetie, I know that you don't have a mom, and I know that I've been kind of shitty in that respect, but like, don't marry a dude you met on vacation three weeks ago. That's really good everyone. Uh look, I don't know that under normal circumstancesively be though, like otherwise, okay,

if this hadn't happened, No, don't marry a stranger. Don't marry you got married, Daniel, and I knew we were getting married very early on. But okay, that's but you did not marry That's that's a good one. But I didn't said I was not like a penniless wife who was being trained to be a companion, which, by the way, is not a real job. Um whose like the greatest possibility was I was gonna keep trappling with this lady and they she's gonna leave you, and they have no skills.

I figured it out the modern day equivalent. Sorry, she's a personal assistant. She's a personal assistant. Yeah, yeah, that's a real thing. That's like, okay, yeah, well that was a thing. Then if Maxim had not been a murderer whatever, her life had been worse than even if this is like a loveless, weird marriage with housekeeper who will tell you to kill yourself. Yeah, her, like she had an option to just go to maximum. It's like, Okay, this lady is crazy. She tried to push me out away,

trying to push me out a window. We have to fire her. We'll hire somebody new. She'll be good too, It'll be fine. But I think also we forgetting that, like even before until the murder thing came to light, Maxim was a terrible husband to her, terrible, but her life is terrible, and terrible has to accommodate Mrs van Hopper, who is a terrible boy and who she's very attractive to Maxim, but like, what if she then meets someone

who treats her he was that bad. I think that Mrs van Hopper was like kind of a ship employer, but not in like a completely abusive way like this. I know I've been using the term psychological warfare, but I feel like Maximum is also engaging in that to some degree, in terms of like she's like, oh, well, he didn't have time to say that he loved me, I'll say it later. Yeah, look a lot older than he.

But Jennifer, she couldn't meet He's not the last. He doesn't seem to be great way twenty years and then you wait, I'm sorry. Was that the defense? Yeah, I mean she could get someone else to like, and he's definitely going to Maria Murder and Jennifer Wein did talk about this, we were texting a little bit. Her devotion to Maxim is sort of similar to like a Mrs Danvers to Rebecca, Like she instantly becomes obsessed with acts and is totally on board and justifies everything he says

and does in a way that is unhealthy. I mean, it's it's right for her because there was no alternative. But in a dream world, you stay with Mrs van Hopper and then meet a nice, normal accountant who treats you well. She was never going to be is what the book should have been. This is what the book should have been. She should have gone to New York with Mrs van Hopper, and then when she got to New York, she should have saved up all her money, left her employ gone out into the city to be

a city gal in New York. And yeah, met a fabulous, wonderful, mysterious woman who was like a socialite in the New York City like hot scene named Rebecca, and she learned how to be a cool it girl from Rebecca. This is then Rebecca Mysterious. It is very gossip girl. And then Rebecca mysteriously disappears and it's about her remembering her friend Rebecca. Hey, Karama, why are you telling this very good book that you should write. Write that book, everybody.

We need to cut that out, and the need to write that book from Twilight. Not that, not that it will be much better than that. But you know, I love Twilight. Complete meant I loved Twilight. I'm a twyheart, but I meant fifty great, it's not, you know, but I will I will say it does feel like this whole book is, or the beginning of the book is just like the lesson as trust your instincts, like it,

you know. And she just keeps like, I highlighted this one little section where it's like, um, then they suddenly decided to get married in there. It was such an adventure. I smiled to myself as I had my knees bla. I was to be Mrs Winter. It was foolish to go on having that pain in the pit of my stomach when I was so happy. Nerves, of course, and I just highlighted it and said, red flag when you have the nerves in the pit of your stomach, runaway. Yeah.

My mom taught me always trust your gut, and then she told me several stories of people who were murdered when they didn't trust their gut. When I was like a teenager, She's like, so trust your gut otherwise you'll be murdered. Yeah, that's a good mom. Okay, let's take a brief moment here for an head break. So we're back with Popcorn Book Club for My Heart Radio. She was so obsessed that she was willing to be like, I'll just I'll just be your friends a dog. I

don't care. I know you're you're still not over. Part that I did highly that I thought was absolutely crazy was where she was like in that exact conversation when she's like, I know you love Rebecca so much, and he goes, what why would you think I loved Rebecca? Why would you not red flag? Why would your wife think that you loved your fabulous ex wife? He's like, what, you stupid idiot, you thought I loved my wife. Here's

the thing about red flags. I feel like, if there are some red flags, but there are an exponentially larger number of green flags, you can kind of forgive some of the red flags, but maxim to winter at zero green rich rich, handsome, nice house, rich rich rich rich flags. That is an economic state of being, that's not a green flags. I'm just saying those are his only positive attributes.

There's a bow Jack Horseman quote that goes some thing like when you're looking through looking at the world through rose colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags, um, And I feel like that's what it is. Like. She was so smitten by this handsome man with a good jaw line and a and Amanda Manderley that it's like, I don't know what these flags are there just flags.

I love flags someone giving her attention for the first time in her life and like talking to her like an equal and not as a employ And I think on some levels she wants it, Like she wants the waiters to be more respectful of her when she's at the hotel. Dare she doesn't want people just throwing a cold ham at her. Yeah, that's so very understandable. But she also hasty of like alright, like I'll skip over

all the hard parts of becoming an adult. It'll just skip to the part where I'm in my mid thirties and I'm the lady of the house and everybody respects me and thinks I'm fabulous. I will say, as someone who has dated older people, that is like a fantasy that I share, and it never goes Well, I keep telling you to stop doing I've stopped. Yeah, enjoy being young, Benome. It only took five years for you to start listening to jump in. I only ever dated, I don't think

because the fantasy. Well, I also don't want to pretend I'm interested in a boyfriend playing video games for like two hours. Um, you don't like watching boys play video games? Jen No, And I don't say it comfortable. I'm married now, it doesn't matter. The secret is out. Yeah. I don't think Maxim says like one good thing to her. And I'm like, thinking about back on the book, I don't think. I don't think he says like one decent or like even complimentary, like when he proposed to it, he calls

her a silly little fool. He and like even when he finally tells her that like she has murdered or he has murdered Rebecca, his like blind that I thought was very funny was him being like, and I'd make you a mother, like after never talk about like anything about their relationship. That's like the first thing that he There was one scene where she's like, she's like getting ready to go meet someone, and she was very to care about it, and she was like, is my like

skirt or harrokaite? And He's like, yeah, whatever, it's fine. I do you know. I'm looking at the director and and you know, I'm sure he's very good, but it I think this movie I wish they had hired a female director for this movie, because I do think what I want to experience in a movie like this is that feeling of being so clouded by infatuation and and this first feeling of love as a young woman that you ignore the things that scare you and you ignore

your intuition. And I feel like it's very different the way you know women being afraid of men like that is a very real thing that they might kill you, which in this case he does kills him a woman.

But I just feel like we've a lot of women have been in this situation of like being totally infatuated with a very scary bad man, and I feel like it would be but the feeling of it of like the twist of like, look at this perfect prince charming and then like the reality sets in when she goes to Manderley, Like I love that, and I hope that that he does service to it. It's such a female story.

I agree. Yeah. I think one of the things that I noticed and we talked a little bit about it, Mrs Danvers has all this misplaced rage and disappointment with Mr de Winter that she then just dumps onto the new Mrs de Winter, and I think that it's really interesting how this, even almost a hundred years ago, has that aspect of women are mean to each other because

they can't be mean to men. And I think that getting into that, I do wish that there were a female director because I think that showing that and I'm not saying that a male director cannot do that. I mean a man directed Mean Girls, which is a classic of women meet girls being mean to each other because they can't be mean to men. Um. But I do think that there is something about that that is so ingrained in people who are raised female. Yes, And I

think like the changing the subject slightly from gender. I think the class issue. I hope that the film covers that and and dials home because I do think that is a very important element of the book that's in mostly in subtext, in the major class and power differential between Max and his wife and Mrs Danvers and the restricted behaviors that come with that. Yeah, and I hope that he hold like this director doesn't make Army Hammer person.

I think they're going they're going to make it a romance. Well, I think that Army Hammer was kind of shitty, and I mean, he was very shitty, but I think that they actually did a good job of showing him as shitty and sorry to bother you. Yeah, but yeah, but I hope, I hope that that stays true, because like there's not there's really nothing charming about Maxim in this book, and I think it could be really easy for an adaptation to inject some sort of like charm to him,

so that I hope. A preview for the director said that he wanted to make Conversion that's more about love, um and very I mean, it's about exaction in an interesting way. But Maxim de Winter does not strike me as sexy. Um. Rebecca strikes me as impossibly so like just like a woman whom everybody would want to sleep with. Yes, every Rachel is a great example. Yeah. Um, Maxim strikes me as frosty and detached and as like Prince Charles kind of like like this like a sexual like so

well bred that they're just like a non entity. Yeah yeah, I want to a sexuality. No no, no no, no, so sorry, that's you're completely correct, um de sexualized when the framing And but I will say that, like what I like about the start of the story is that she does meet him on vacation, and it's all through her perspective, Like we as the reader, can see that he is an interesting and perhaps dangerous but we're in her head

of like imagining a life. And I do think I love the idea of meeting someone on vacation and then you go back to real life and it's like, oh no, they suck, like the idea of the prince charming of Cinderella and then you go back to the palace after what's supposed to be happily ever after and it's just terrible and fraught. Um, I mean, none of the Protestants actually get married. All he all he offers her is

status and did Tristan Yeah, yeah she's still married. Good job, not that getting divorces a bad job, but married just yea working good for you. Yeah. Clearly she could listened to who the people were on the show and paid attention. I was like, oh, I think that I could build a life with this person as opposed to this person is hot. Right now we have the fantasy suite, let's do this making decisions that I think it was fine.

This episode is sponsored Christ forever. I do think it was also before the Bachelor became such a property that it's like you're now an influencer, that's your job. This was like back before then you became Instagram famous, when it's like, these are just normal people we have. He's a pilot or whatever. It's not an Instagram influencer who's already been on six seasons of The Bachelor. Okay, so in terms of Bachelor architects, since we're now on the Bachelor,

I don't watch The Bachelor. I have never seen The Bachelor. I've seen many things about The Bachelor, so I have a working knowledge of it. But I did watch Unreal and they have all those different like like wifie villains, let's get cut all that stuff. Talking about the characters of this book, the new Mrs de Winter, who do we think that she is? Do we think she's wifely? I know that she gets the guy, but I don't

see her as a wife. She's the weird and scure virgin who and this is Unreal character who like is too awkward to like wear a bikini on their group date and get to cut? Yeah, yeah, I love that. That is absolutely true. And then who's Rebecca? I don't know, how can we all like she wins. Heaven. We all know a man who dated incredibly interesting women and then they break up and then the next woman they date is like a pale meeting insipid person who like says, oh, asparagus,

I've never seen that before. Sorry, that was kind of question. Is that plucked from life? That's are like, very very real. Maybe she lived in a food desert and was not. It's true, it's very it's you know what, that's so true. That's like a fertile crescent of produce. And we're also lucky that we've seen a fracas, but also like maybe she could have seen it in a picture. It seems like you just don't like this woman, and this is

kind of you. I do sound you know what. She sounds like a wet boy, like you know, sometimes you don't like somebody, and it's like, oh, look at the way she choose gum horrible. You know, I get a job. Yeah, when you love someone, they no matter what they do. I think we hold producer of the show. Is Rebecca wins the show for sure? Then I think Rebecca's runner up? No, I think next season, Oh, no up? And then she yes,

I think she wins. But then they break up, but she then makes it a sob story about how he dumped her and left her completely blindsided, and then she's bachelorette. She wouldn't lose a competition. See I think. I think Rebecca is one of the like hot ones. But then she starts in like an a fair relationship with one of the Vietnam and doesn't even did happen. It's happened

in Vietnam, it happened in Australia too. I agree. I feel like she wants to play the game to win, and to play the game to win for her is not getting the man. It's getting to be the next bachelor at because that will extend the life of her career. Um. Yeah, and she wants to have control. And so then when she picks the guy there, it's like, okay, we can be famous together as long as you don't sunk up my ship, like I'll put you on my Instagram. I mean,

it's a pretty good deal she made with Maxim. I mean, she was straightforward about it. She's like, this is the deal. It wasn't a deal because she kind of forced it on you. Yeah, that's true. But he was chill about it because she had like a sex attack by the scene, like we net All and Shack. He didn't get rid

of it. Yeah, well that's because he can't go down to it, like it's too horrifying for one Okay, I mean the tragedy in this book extends to Mrs Danvers and the second Missister Winter, obviously, but it also extends to the limitations placed on Rebecca. Like Rebecca is clearly somebody who if she was alive today would be running a fortune. Like she wanted the money in the house.

She did not want to have to commit herself to this one man who was kind of dealt and Danvers said, like she they always said, you should have been born a boy and like it. In that time, It's like that's the only way she could have lived the independent life she desired was to be a man. She had to marry well in order to have the life that

she wanted. And it's again why I don't know how much better the second this is de Wint's life would have been if she had a very maxim like maybe she would have met a nice person in New York that she made it pretty she met she win. Yes, she made it clear she was not interested in those man that she hated younger man who were always asking her like do you like hot music? Yeah? I understandably she doesn't want to go out to jazz clubs. Yeah. She wasn't looking for a nice boy. She wanted a daddy,

a murder daddy, a murder daddy. I think, Jennifer, that's really poignant with Rebecca is like, yeah, she wanted a certain life that if she was a man, would have been allowed to live, which is just like throw amazing parties and have sex with whoever you want. Yeah, Jay Gatsby, Yeah, the sex with whoever you want, because he just wants to have sex. Yeah, and he just wants to have sex with his shirts. But but if but if Jay was Rebecca, he would be hot enough to seduce her. Yeah.

Perhaps perhaps Indeed. I have thoroughly enjoyed this, uh, the intellectual discourse of the Bachelor and which people they would be. And I want to thank you all for going down that road with me. And who would Maximate, Oh, he would have been cut in the first episode. I think I think they would have made Maxim would be a bachelor that you're like, this dude's a third string quarterback. For an NFL. I think that anybody's hands on the

producers would have realized, osh it, he's so boring. We have to cut around him and make the women really interesting and seem toxic because he has nothing to offer up but he's Yeah. I think if Maxim were on the Bachelorette, he would make it through the first couple of rounds of cuts, but then he would get into a huge fist fight with another person with another contestant, and then he wouldn't get cut. He would leave in a huff, and then he would do like an expose

on about what really happened. I don't know. I think he talked about his house incessantly and it might get him to the episode where they go home to meet the family, because and the producers really wanted. And I also think he would still be a widow, which would be really interesting on the Bachelor, Like that's the whole angle, and he would be able to use that as like she's like, oh, he needs a new a new wife, and I need a murder daddy. So it would work

out for a while. One quick question when he is murdering her and she's like, I'm pregnant with Jack's baby. What you're gonna do about it? I'm gonna raise him a mander, Like, um, is he so scared? Like could he not get a divorce? Like I know the scandal was that she would turn everyone against him, but he literally was like that scandal was so outrageous to him that he had to uh murder her. The one thing that the Second Winter have in common. Obsessed with how

other people might. Yeah, Remeba does not seem to like Rebecca will suck people in cottage any day because she's like, I will turn people against you when we get divorced. It's like she had waries, he had her moonlight, the moonlight picnics. Okay, that's an orgy. I mean, I feel like he made that choice because again patriarchy, he knew, Like, I think he knows he could get away with this.

He is like the epitome of that. The town centers around him, and like they all want to be in good with Maxim the like magistrate and like all of those men and so like, I think he did it because he knew he could. Divorce would be a scandal. Yeah, a divorce would be I think that if she was Indeed, because we have to remember, he genuinely believes that she's pregnant. Her pregnancy and therefore the air is still legitimate even if he divorces her. Right, I don't pretend to know

how upper white people lived in England. I think I think that's us made it clear that Jack was her lover and it was Jack's baby, and maximum Hannah slept those three years, which might happen like Jack seems just think if he going to get married. Also, before you murder her, get a second opinion or a first opinion. Well, she knew, I mean, that's the whole thing. She knew

exactly what she was doing. She knew exactly what to say, and that would corner him because she knows that he deep down he's a bad murder guy, and that like he cares about the status and Manderley more than he cares about her life. And and so she taunted him into it. I wonder was and maybe this is obvious, but I hadn't really thought about until now. The letter to Jack was that so that um Jack would discover Maxim and he would go to prison. Yes, I never

thought about that. That's great that come to the moon like cottage and maybe you would catch him in the act. Or it could be that she really genuinely was going to tell him that she had like cancer because she did to some extent care about him and he was her cousin. Yeah, yeah, well maybe maybe it was more in retrospect. Maybe when Maxim came down there, she was saying all this because because you're right, like Maxim would get away with it, but he but Rebecca probably thinks

Jack is coming up here. He I'm going to get him to kill me, and then he's going to get caught. He doesn't think he's gonna get caught, but he's gonna get caught. And stupid, stupid Jack had like a drinking night, right, Yeah he was alcohol Boys. You know, when if your alcohol consumption gets in the way of you stopping your lover cousin's murder, you might want to get to a meeting or talk to a dop. That's when you know it's that's your rough bottom when when Rebecca's where Rebecca's

body is on rock bottle. I did love the name of the boat was I returned perfect spooky detail, Johivian. I didn't even want to try the French, so thank you. This is also I don't know if you guys have read Jane Eyre, but like Jane Eyre is another one where a husband treats his first wife appallingly and then we're sort of ok, yeah, like yeah, she has such

fiery blood, Oh my god, and the house also burned down. Ye. Well, actually there was talk, so I don't know if you all heard about this, but I did some reading on Daphne and she was accused of plagiarism by a Brazilian author named Carolina Nabuco, who wrote a book called a success aora Um in nineteen thirty four, which was I believe three or four years before Rebecca was published, and um.

One of the things that she kind of used to her advantage when she was accused of this plagiarism was well, Jane Eyre deals with similar things, like it's not a new idea, but like it was a whole situation where Carolina Nabuco was like, I'm not going to sign any of the paperwork that your agents keep sending to me, saying that the coincidences are just coincidences, like the similarities are real, and you plagiarized me and Daphne Dumourier actually

wrote to the New York Times because the New York Times had suggested that it was maybe plagiarized in their review of Rebecca, and she wrote a letter to the editor and she's like, can you not excuse you? And she was like, maybe it was just a coincidence because we're dealing with similar themes. Did you ever think about that? Like, do you even think bro Um? And I mean, this

book is exactly like that. It is, Honestly, if it's plagiarized from anything, it's Jane Eyre, which is that you fall in love with an older, mysterious man who's very cold to you find out he was an asshole to his first wife, who was crazy. It's all her fault. She deserved it. And then the house burns down and a success Saura. I'm probably pronouncing it wrong because I do not speak Portuguese, but that was also adapted. It was adapted into a telenovela in the seventies worth checking out,

especially if anyone speaks Portuguese or can read Portuguese. That would be fun. Yeah, I did not know that. I also wrote The Birds, just getting all of his Yeah, yeah, when I started reading it. When I started reading it. I was like, yeah, no, she she wrote the birds. This is the same plodding. Oh no. I read The Birds after I finished this because I'm so excited, and uh, it's so much better than the movie. I liked it

so much. It was It's very short. It's a really like little quick short story that we'll keep you awake at night. So it's great. Question does it doesn't vilify birds as much as the movie? Because I like birds a lot, and I feel like the birds are unfairly maligned by the films birds. If you relate two in the book the humans say are murdering, I would say it would out her Win Birch for you. If you say this when you're like, yeah, I must see golf, then yeah, it's a great moment for you. It's like

a moment from the Birch Rise office. Okay, I do like bird solidarity. Birds aren't time is now? Yeah? Send it there. Like, just because there are some murdering birds in one book doesn't mean all birds are murderers, you know, Like right, it's okay, think about it like a zombie apocalypse. Yeah, house birds are not murderers, but in this book they all become murderers, and you know, I appreciate you assuaging my fears. I follow the Audubon Society on Twitter like

a you and Jonathan Brandon. At least, don't ever compare me to Jonathan for you do you go bird watch? Do you go bird watching? I do not go birdwatching. But okay, so you know those scooters that were everywhere bird scooters? Yeah, I went to those are not birds. No. I went to acting class and my scene partner was like, hey, how are you? And I was like, I'm good. How

was your weekend? And he was like, oh, I went birding this weekend And I was like really, And I didn't know that he meant like riding a bird scooter. I thought he went bird watching. And then he thought I was a nerd because I was like, tell me about the birds you saw? You know movie that I watched on a plane called The Big Year. It's just about um the year when um. I guess people in the Audubon Society all try to see how many birds they watch? Me here, you like birds and bird watching?

You got? I watched it on a plane. It was pretty pleasant. Dyna made fun of me once because I had pet birds growing up. Yeah, I think I don't. I don't think birds belong in homes, pet belongs, but birds can fly. Okay, No, my my ex girlfriend had a bird, and I then it was weird it about it, So I think you mean, I mean they scare but

we did. We didn't have a bird that was that we had to give away to a bird sanctuary because honey Pie, who had named her, turned out to be a male bird who was that we didn't know for years was a male bird and was squawking all the time because he was horny and needed to mate um. And so honey Pie went to a bird he got made, which is better because we also had cats, and those cats terrorized poor Honeypie. What if we all wrote an

adaptation of the birds, but it's the scooters. It's a modern adaptation, and the scooters are coming to kill you. Why are we giving away this gold on air sand might cut that out? Imagine how terrifying, Imagine how terrifying it would be to see a barrage of bird scooters coming at you with no riders, just like I'm already seeing the handlebars like treated like eyes. So they may come across the court like they peer around a corner

and just like come at you, I'm gonna write. I'll write it, I'll write it all write Okay, great, great, great. That's our show for the week. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Danish Schwartz and you can find me on Twitter at Danis Schwartz with three z s. You can follow Jennifer Wright at jen Ashley Wright Karama, Donqua is at Karama Drama, Melissa Hunter is at Melissa ft W and Tian Tran is smart enough to have gotten off Twitter, but she is on Insta at Hank Tina.

Our executive producer is Christopher Hessiotis and we're produced and edited by Mike John's special thanks to David Wasserman. Next week it'll be screen time. We'll take a look at Alfred Hitchcock's film adaptation of Rebecca, and if you want to plan ahead, we'll be watching the rest of Lovecraft Country on HBO and then moving on to V for Vendetta. Popcorn Book Club is a production of I Heart Radio