I Know This Much Is True (Part 4)

Know this Much is true. Because this is Popcorn Book Club from My Heart Radio, and on this episode we continue our discussion of Wally Lamb's novel I Know this Much is true, which you know, it's like, I Know this much is incredibly traumatic. So we're diving into the story of Dominico on no Fryo Tempesta, the grandfather of the Birds, EA Twins and folks. Things get weird. I will not have a wife. I will have this monkey in a cross stitch on someone's house. You'd be like,

I gotta get out of this house. This is part four of our series, so jump back to episode three if you want to start a little bit earlier, or up one if you haven't caught up yet. Here we go. Welcome back to Popcorn Book Club. I'm Danish Schwartz and as always I'm joined by Cromadanca, Jennifer Right, Tantran, and Melissa Hunter. Hi everyone, Hi, could someone describe where we

left off last time? I went through the book and I like made a bunch of notes and like tried to make a timeline, but then I had to keep going back and adding stuff and like changing and altering. And I was, you did do the homework. I thought, you're good at therapy. Thank you. Can I graduate now? Yes, I say, you can graduate. Thank you, Betsy. I hope

you're listening to this. Betsy is my therapist. So the last part that we had talked about was the beginning of Domenico on all Freo Tempesta's story, where he talked about coming to the United States and he was on the deck of the ship and there were those rich people who were like, get backed down into the browels of the ship where you belong, and he was like, the world is full of stairs. Some go up and some go down, which is not an expression I'm fully

sure I understand. But um so, then Dominic is at home after having been released from the hospital, finding out that Joy cheated on him with her uncle who was also her molester as a child, and that she was pregnant. More on that later. UM, and he considers suicide and he's sort of at his lowest low. He really hits bottom when he's at home from the hospital, but thankfully he calls Leo, doesn't make an actual gesture or attempt at suicide. He gets help, which is probably part of

the work of the therapy honestly. Well, yeah, and so then it becomes very largely about Domenico story. So we can now talk about the things that happen. Um. Starting get all that out of the way. Those brothers, UM. I think it was Melissa who said something was going to happen with the brothers. She was like, nothing is good, so the brothers aren't gonna end up well, and thankfully it wasn't that they raped Dominic's mom but thank god,

which I think we were all shocked by. I think, um, so many terrible things happened in this book that I just fully assumed that Dominic's mom was by an uncle or her father, And no, she wasn't put a put a nice turn of events. Well, yeah, we'll get into that later. But yeah, I will not go into the rape or incest foreshadowing. Oh. So, yeah, Domenico comes to the United States and he befriends a librarian in New York.

They live in a thriving Italian community and he works as a janitor, and then he and his brothers find out that there's this sort of like new up and coming Italian community that's going to be in Three Rivers, Connecticut. So he's like, Oh, let's all move to Three Rivers, Connecticut and get jobs there because they've got lots of jobs and they've got some Sicilianos and we can just go hang out with other Sicilians in this new place.

And so they do that, and then he starts working as Domenico starts working as like a fabric dyer at a factory. And both of his brothers are sort of ne'er duels in different ways. One of them a little not neir duels, that's like a but a little like quirky quirky. They have different quirkies, have one primary trait. One is one of the night and the other one

is obsessed with his pet Mommy. The monkey monkey has actually come up a lot in which is wild because I was like, it's a lot of monkey imagery in here, because prospering and who will get into a little bit later, but she's constantly described as looking like a monkey and referred to as the monkey throughout Domenico's story and then Dominant Dominic it's called the spider monkey by his mom, which did make me think of Twilight, and Dominic calls the Tiffany a little monkey, but in a in a

sweet way, it seems like, yeah. And then also the rabbit imagery is the mom would call Thomas her little rabbit, and then she was called a rabbit. And then there's some witchcraft with rabbits that will get into and then some curse forgiveness with some rabbits. There's sometimes describing this book to other people feels like a mad lib. Yeah, it does. Okay, I'm gonna I know I'm breaking my rule of breaking out of domenico story. But have any

of you read Holes? Yes? Okay, so you know at the end of Holes where uh he Stanley breaks the old his grandfather's curse by carrying zero open hill and then everything works out and then he gets and then he finds the money and everything's great. Rabbits, he broke the curse, he broke Prosperines evil lie curse, and then it's like, and now you get your your bad luck of schizophrenia and suicide is over. Now you get money

and wife and now dad. Yeah. So it felt like it felt like he broke the curse and then he just got to have everything he wanted. Just because of the premise of this podcast, I do have to say that Holes was my first really positive experience with a book to film adaptation. I feel like when they did a very good job of adapting and also including rap, so good job. Yeah. If you guys, if the three of you who have not who are not familiar with Holes, want to go enjoy it the Holes Rap, I highly

recommend it. It's called digging. Okay, I'm already who wants to dive into what happens to the brothers? And then we get the sisters, well fake sisters or cousin fake cousins. Um I can so Vincenzo, whose primary trade is that Vincenzo loves to fuck um She's the statue of liberty and says if all the women in America this large, they will need need me to fill up their enormous pussies,

all right, like strong, strong stoke from Vincenzo. Um So Vincentso ends up being employed at a grocery store, and one of the reasons he's employed there is because he's constantly having sex with women, and women come in to the grocery store to ce Vincenzo and have affairs with them. Well, you know, you know Jews, they're so greedy, they higher

I sing I did. I didn't feel about that. It's like, oh, the Italian grocers like, why won't he work it here, and it's like, I don't know, and the Jewish grocer is like, yes, no, come bring us money. Yeah. Obviously Domenico is someone who is not an ally of the Jewish community. I imagine. I think it's just an ally of Domenico. That's fair. So at one point, Um, the local priest comes to Domenico and says, please stop your brother from having sex with every single woman in the

town of Free Rivers, Connecticut. It is bringing a bad name up on all Italians. And Um Domenico is very angry about this. Um it's uh, it's a rift between him and the religious community. And shortly after his brother of Vincento, is caught my jealous husband and shot and dies. So that's why, yeah, yeah, that's I feel like that's

also a theme that very topic comes back around. Um. But you know, life goes on for Domenico, and he still has his other brother, who he certainly is not having sex with a bunch of ladies, but gets this pet monkey that he loves perhaps too much. UM, and we don't know. I'm gonna to couch it by saying allegedly, I don't know having sex with the monkey, but there becomes a rumor in town that he's having sex with

the monkey. And also I want to point out the one really embarrassing anecdote that Domenico says is he walked into his brother's room one morning and his brother had morning would and the monkey was on doing his pant page. And he told that story to the priest, and like the way the priest navigates, being like, okay, I know a boner in the morning is normal. He can't know. Hey, the priest was basically like the criminal justice system. He's like, I know, you walked in and you saw this, but

it's circumstantial evidence. But I also do respect that the priest was saying, like the brother I think was dead at this point, and so that the priest was saying. The thing that Domenico really needed to hear the priest was doctor Pertel. Yeah, yeah, Domenico's doctor Hotel didn't work as well for Domenico. But no, but I think it's really better that those of them um sought to unburden themselves of these kind of horrible secrets that had been

making them very angry for so long. So she's brother past qualite. He's probably not having sex with the monkey, but it definitely loves this monkey very very much and takes it everywhere with him and demands that the monkey live in the house um so which they are building. So he is helping Domenico build a house in Three Rivers, Connecticut, which Domenico really really wants to be a homeowner in

this town. And the plan is that they will marry two newly arrived eighteen year old Sicilian women and they'll both have a wife. And because the Dreaming isn't interested in that, he just wants staying out with his monkey. But Domenico thinks that'll be the thing that will make it normal, that'll make him forget about how much he loves his fat monkey. And one day well was sucking the monkey look I mean the five thing it was

taking off his pants. We was weird. Was like, I would never have a wife over this monkey, like this money. It's just there was an implication that the monkey was his wife, whether it's sexually or not. Like if I don't think if you had like a cat or dog that you loved your significant other, was like, you have to choose me or the dog. Like people might choose the dog and that would be valid. Um, people love

their pet. I don't know. I don't know if I would get rid of my cat based on a new boyfriend. I guess I I definitely think it's that's what the seid of, Like I will not have a wife, I will have this monkey in a cross stitch on someone's house. You'd be like, I gotta get out of this house. Yeah. He wasn't even trying to date and see if this woman maybe would be open to cohabiting with a monkey. He was just like, no wife, just a monkey. Okay, maybe I just didn't want to get married. That could

be normal. That normal, like lots of people just you know, want to want to have a pet to live alone. That's okay, he's not sucking the monkey. I want to one of the things I love about you, Jennifer, as you always you do see the good in people, and you always look for the bright side. And I I also think that maybe he was having sex with them.

Here's here's what I think on the monkey business. So um, the thing is it was twofold because Domenico was like, you will get rid of this monkey, and the monkey can maybe live outside, and you also have to get a wife. So I think that the two being intertwined

for Domenico is what made them intertwined. For um, for Pascal or Pasquale, I don't know how you pronounce his name, but I think that ultimately, if there had been a woman who accepted the fact sort of someone like Likedessa, who was like who accepted Thomas and loved Thomas for who he was despite his flaws and the difficulty of having Thomas in her life, I think that somebody would have been like, Yes, this monkey is a part of

our life for the rest of its natural life. And maybe it's not ideal, but I care about this person, and I see this person's gentleness and the love and care he has for that monkey, and if he can love and care for me in the same way, then we're good. Also, how to build on what you were saying, I think like maybe that relationship is just mirroring the

thing about his mom and and Thomas. It's that like what Domenico saw and his brother was a tenderness that disgusted him, and that he saw something that was not manly or not representing like the ultimate man that his brother should have become. So like that is a I appreciate that read. And also maybe he has a weird relationship with the monkey and Yan. I think what's really important about that is what really I think made Domenico the maddest was the way other people perceived the relationship

between Pasquale and the monkey. I think that Domenico is someone who was so um insecure in his own you know, worth the dominant that to have other people gossip about his brother and the monkey, he couldn't protect his brother the same way that you know, the mirrors the way that Dominic was always so humiliated by Thomas, and like I didn't know how to protect him that when people made fun of Thomas, rather than being like, hey, you know,

back off, that's my brother, he internalized that chain And I think Domenico. When people make fun of Pasquale, you know, even if it was just like joking, like kidding about he really internalized anger, crystallized Andy's uncle. Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. I also will say I think if Puss passwal I had not died, Prosperine would have been totally cool with living with a monkey. I think they would have had a really cool kind of sitcomy

dynamic between postqualit, the monkey and Prosperine. I would have loved to see it. I think they would have had way more fun on their side of the house. Yes, absolutely, anyway, so that's a good transition into prospering and Violetta what are we gonna call her? Yoletta Ignasia. Melissa brings us into offering Agnasia. Well, we didn't talk about how pas died actually, which I think is super implant cover it real quick. So, um, the priest of the town and

his underling, I'm not sure how that is exactly. Assistant priest uh to come to the house, cer like why aren't you coming to church? And they're still working on the house and uh, and they get into a fight because Domenico doesn't want to go to church and the priest Wall plus quality is up in a tree, I believe, trying to cross to like do some house work. I think his monkey is in a tree. Yeah, he gets bedeviled by blue jays and then on the roof putting

on Yes, that's what it is. And so while they're in a fight, Domenico throws cement at the priest. It's a very silly fight, and then the priest curses the house and the monkey gets spooked at the same time by the birds get spooed because the monkey did get spooked, and the monkey jumps, and then Pascually tries to save the monkey, and the monkey is okay, but Pascual it falls to his death. Um, and it is very sad.

And then, uh, much like the mother did with Dominic and Thomas promising to take care of Thomas, Domenico promises last dying breath to take care of the monkey, and he immediately fails that in a most terrific scene that just fails like actively, Yeah, well, I think he tries for like a day and then it's like nope, and uh kills the monkey and it really drowns the monkey.

And it's very very upsetting because the monkey knows what's happening and I don't anyway, moving on from the monkey death from they couldn't you just give the monkey to someone else? The monkey totally responsibly his brother's Thomas's death. A lot of drowning in this book. God, so much drowning. But um, okay, So after that chapter of Domenico's life, he still has these brides, teenage brides waiting for him. Uh, with these with these Italian plumbers. Um, I thought that

when I was reading. And then and they're like, come on, they can't wait for a long they're too hot to handle. And so he goes. He's so excited to meet these brides. He's gonna choose the eighteen year old one rather than the seventeen year old probably named Prosperine, and he's like waiting. I love this moment where he like starts at the feet like he looked. He literally pans up to the face and so he's like, oh, she's like a little skinny. I don't like that, and then sees her face and

it's like she's ugly and old. She's like thirty. Um, I mean I think he's like thirty six or something anyway, and he's like horrified and angry and it's like, how dare you tricked me into this hag? And uh? Then god, I love the pipe and she's a She's like, I don't give a shit about you. Fine, thank god. And then um, Ignazia comes in and it Nausea is just the most beautiful woman he has ever seen. Is closer to eighteen, which is great for him. Um, and she

doesn't want anything to do with Domenico. She's in love with a redheaded man. I forget what he does in the town. Um he lives with his mother and yeah, and so there's some deal making back and forth. He's like filled with lust for a nausea. Then finally he agrees instead of getting a dowry to pay for these women and and also take prospering, even though he didn't

want to. Well at first, he actually he at first he also like bargains with the cousins and then to go home and then comes back because he's like because he's just yeah, he can't. He gets his ass on the train. It's also like the hilarious way that it's the first he's been so dedicated to working and building himself up as like a proper man in America in three rivers and he's like, this is the first time I've ever been horny in my hole. I can't believe it.

I've never felt like this before, Like like all the energy is rushing through me and I can't contain myself. Yeah, he was like a teenager, but in but a really problematic teenager because Ignazia wants nothing to do with him, and so drags these two sisters supposed sisters um to his house and they hate it and they don't like him, and Prospering is just like especially aggressive for Domenico and

doesn't give a shit about him. Well, I think I think the one thing is on their wedding night, oh yes, which I think is the main thing that really crystallizes the relationship between Prospering and Yes Dominico. They have sex, she doesn't bleed right, and then he accuses her of not being a virgin and beats her even though she says she is. Uh, and it really sets a real tone for their whole relationship. Um. But the next morning, what I like is Prospering is really protective of Agnosia

and he's like chopping onions or something. With a really big knife, like like a noticeably big knife, bigger than it has to be. And she's like, you ever lay a hand on her? I will, yes, yes, I think it was kind, but like it's implied and she's like yeah, oh, and she's kind of like I've done it before, bitch. Yeah, I've killed a man. I've killed a man. Whatever, No you haven't. That can't be true. Uh, it turns out it is true. But we'll get to that momentarily. You're

listening to Popcorn Book Clive for my Heart Radio. We'll be right back after this quick break, all right, So let's get back into it. So Ignazy gets pregnant and has or was pregnant. You don't know at the time. It's like I'm pregnant, I'm doing what do you do? Uh? March maybe February? Who knows these things anyway, don't pay attention to the date. I did the math. Actually it's

seven months, right, Yeah, it's seven months. She was about twenty nine weeks because they got married in mid May and then the babies were born in early December, on December two, so that means like twenty nine weeks for the babies, which means that if they were born, and most twins are born early but not that early, they

probably need time in the nikko for that um. But I will say everyone I was originally like conspiracy theory, it's definitely the Irishman's baby, but everyone says that he looks looks so much like Domenico, where I was just like, I'm going to suspend my disbelief and assume I is. I would say yeah, because at first I was like, that's what they're saying that, and then I'm like, oh no, because they're saying Domenico is actually his father, and that I feel like that was the real like it's not

his grandfather, it's his father. But then now that I know that it's not either, I think he is the grandfather. Also, because my grandma has red hair and she did not have any red haired children, but her great grandchildren, three of them are redheads. It's like that Jane sticks the funk around, so I think, ah, there might have been some redheads. You also think that one of the seams of the book, he said, it's not just biology that

makes a father. My father is someone who bears witness to your life, and the father is someone who's there, and um, I don't freaking debate whether or not that's entirely true, but um, I think that's how he comes to feel about Ray later, that Ray is not his natural father, but Ray it's his father, and you know, maybe maybe the same could be said of Domenico, and um, I think it's important to to make the distinction that like none of this, like that Dominico raped his wife,

like none of the sex was ever consensual in an upsetting upsetting and the most upsetting thing is that like Dominic doesn't really grasp that in his explanation of his his grandfather's story to people, like that is so glossed over in a way that like make which makes him getting back with Sorry I'm jumping, but it makes him getting back with Dessa so upsetting to me because it feels like those conversations about consent and him being a rapist does not get talked about in the same way

that we literally see every single conversation of every like every other conversation that Dominic has with people, the one that he has with Desa is the one we don't get to see, which I thought was like, yes, really really, I will say I will say Dominic does recognize some of the rape that happens, but it's not he doesn't recognize that all of it is non consensual from the second that Domenico bought right, Yeah, yeah, she wanted nothing

to do with him. Yeah, and then I will say the one reprieve that Agnologia has in her life then is the birth of the twins is so traumatic on her body that the doctor is like, you literally cannot have sex with her anymore or she will die, Like if she gets pregnant again and has another baby, she will probably die. Which uh, then it becomes this like horribly brutal, vicious weapon that a story is so utterly tragic. Yeah. Absolutely, but so we go through this like he is mad.

The twins come out, and it's a boy who's who's stillborn, and then a girl with red hair, and he fixates on this idea that the boy was his baby and the girl was the redheads, which again is not He is possible in like cats, but not possible in humans. Um, so that's just I think a thing that he believes but is not true. But he he fixates on it and believes that the daughter isn't his, which then goes into this main theme that Jennifer was talking about about,

like raising someone else's child and what that means. Well, he literally treats her like a redheaded step child, like that is the yeah, but um, he talks about her being a Sicilian girl. Later when he talks about how she can keep secrets, she's she's a Sicilian. Um, it feels like maybe to love her he has to ultimately come to the belief that she is his, and he

does point out later that there's resemblance there. And in the most horrible moment of you know, when Ignazia does die at the end that chapter for Dominico, it's like, and then I loved her, like it was so it's so awful, but it but that was when he began to love her, which is so insane. I don't know, it's it's just so terrible. It's almost like Connie chose him over her mother. Yeah, I mean she chose being

a survivor. She chose because yeah, like Ignazia is like, I literally cannot take this anymore, which I understand because her life became a living hell. And then you know, Connie decided to be the stoic, brave one, which is so you know what I mean, Like, it's it's interesting because Dominic always saw his mother as a coward, and we see this really quiet form of courage in her and all she survived. Yeah, there's a thought that happened

between do Medico oh that night. That night we get the story we were about to launch in just chands down my favorite part of the whole book. That is the best part of the whole book. Y'all told me in the group chat you were like, oh my god, prospering story. And I was like, okay, yeah, and then I got halfway through it. I was like, well that was wild. And then I realized, wait, there have been

no rabbits yet. What And then the were rabbits and murder and the first time we get like a story from a woman's point of view and where I know it it's so exciting and from joy We did tiny bits. But I will say it's very interesting to me because we were talking about how at the end of the book, the feed the resolution of the female characters in Dominic's timeline feel very thin and like very much like they just served Dominic. But I will say, like, these are fun,

well fleshed out, interesting female characters. I like, yeah, they're very cool, very complicated. Does anyone want to take um Prosperine? Well, one night, I think it's like after dinner, right, and they've the three of them, Dominico, Ignacia, and Prosperine have been living in this like terrible tension and unhappy house. And so Prosperine is getting fucking drunk off the wine that Dominico has and she starts, just for the first time ever, talking to him really like like having a

full on conversation and telling telling him her story. And I know we're short on time, so I kind of want to just because there's so much going on. But it's a very rich text. It's a very but Prosperine grew up in a small Italian seaside town, right, and she is one of three daughters, and she's like having a great time hanging out with her sisters and her best friend, this woman named Violetta, and they're having a great time. Violetta is the daughter of a macaroni maker,

and right, isn't it right? She's a fishmonger. Right, I'm sorry, I wasn't I was just laughing because Matt, daughter of a macaroni maker. It's just it's very funny to me. Prosperine is the daughter of a macaroni maker, and they see this woman in town who's kind of like positioned as the witchy, hunchbacked like they describe her as like having like a huge boil on her head, and she's like the witch of the town who like looks at everyone with an evil eye, and they make fun of

her behind her back. But two Prosperines, you know, Dismay. She finds out that her father has actually sold her to this woman through this woman's son or godson, godson who happens to be like a famous artist who's doing stain glass like triptychs of old saints that he's trying

to put together. And so she starts, she gets ripped away from her family, hates her dad for it, starts living with this woman and I think in the day that she moves to live with that woman, Violetta had gone with her, and that's when this artist meets Violetta, her best friend, and like falls in love with her but also is so creepy and non consensual about how that happens. But starts using Violetta as the model for his saints are like stained glass windows. She's his muse.

She's his muse. That's the correct word. She's his muse. Fast forward and Violetta starts ignoring Prosperine, and Prosperine has now taken kind of the position of like the witchy person and the yeah, which in training, which in turn at this paid which he intern at this Italian seaside down um, and then so many things happened between that.

But I think the big thing that that she shares is that Violetta goes away and comes back and it's clearly like has been abused, has been terribly treated by this artist husband of hers that they find that they actually ended up getting married, gets terribly abused, and that artist comes back home and moves back in to that old witchy person's house. Right yeah, I think, so stop

passed away and the witch has passed away. Um, right side, there's a there's a weird moment unrelated to Violetta and the artist, where as the witch and training is the witch in turn, Um, she's prospering as watching the way you know, butcher animals for people in the town square and there's like me and school teacher comes and he's like, fun, I wouldn't buy one your rabbit. I could get twice as much meat from someone else. And the witch is like, oh, really,

how about this? And she magically makes the one skinny rabbit turned into two skinny rabbits in half and it turns into two rabbits. Yeah, like King, what's his face? Was it? King Solomon? Yeah, that doesn't become two babies.

But yeah, there is one other aside I want to say that I love in this section is that any time Domenico interrupts, Prosperine like punishes him by like being like I'm not gonna say anymore, and he's like, I don't care, wait tell me more, and like he just she just commands respect from him in a way that it's just tickled me so much, which the old witch lady taught her about. I find that there were there were two very um tender moments of like female not friendship,

but like female connection. One describing the way that Prospering came to love this old woman who she had like originally mocked and found like terrifying in her disfigurement, Like eventually she would like touch the boil and find it very like sweet. And I just found the way that that was described really sweet. And then the fact that when they were a young women like Violetta, uh, they had been best friends. But Violetta is always like more

beautiful and more flirtatious. And then when she becomes like the artist mused, she becomes like the popular girl in town, starts like ignoring uh, Prospering in a way that like is an ache to any girl who's had like a girl in high school become cool or whatever. But when she comes back, that relationship with Violetta and Prospering rekindles

in a really intimate way. Even though that Violetta is like, I'm the mistress of this house, I'm the boss, but there's still that like Prospering still cares for her so much because they still have that base of female friendship.

It's such a complicated, toxic, like kind of toxic relationship between the two of them because Violetta continues to wield this like popular girl, I'm the woman of the house kind of you know, energy towards Prospering the whole time, and it kind of ebbs and flows throughout and even despite that, Prospering is like, you know, I've seen I feel like Prosperine is so tender because she's like, I've seen how much you've suffered. I'm going to continue to

be good to you and help you well. Prosperine is the only person she has any power over, Like, Um, she's in a situation where she's so brutalized by everybody else. Her husband beats her every single night. Um, Like, the only way she can cling to the old remnants of like being bold and popular and beautiful is to be like, no, I'm the mistress of this house, and you take care of me. That's the only person she can do that too in her entire life. I just I found prosperinges

like devotion very touching. The fact that she's like, even when you're mean to me, like even like you know what, I'm going to protect you because you need to be protected. Yeah, Prosperine like she's not being beaten by anybody. Um, Prospering Is has infinitely more freedom at least in that regard than Violetta does. And I think Prosperine is probably aware

of that that she doesn't have to answer to any husband. Um, she gets to sit around and spoke her pipe and sell rabbits and sexual violence again and she is not righted constantly. Yeah, and to kind of build on that protection, prospering and Violetta kind of put this plan together to murder the artist's husband by feeding like shards of glass to him. Um, and that ends up like ripping his insides apart, and he like dies a horrible graphic death.

But the funny like whoopsie daisies, three stooges aspect of this is that they had left food out when the priest because of the priest or the doctors doctor, that's right, the doctor decides that he died of a burst of pandex first of all. Yeah, and there's like a sigh of relief of like, why we pulled it off. Yeah, we got away with the murder. And then they like turn into the kitchen and he's just like spoon feeding himself. This like the chicken. The chickens stuffed with glass shards

and lead water. They also include lead water. Right. You know what, if you're going to poison someone, just make sure you have one dish and save all the other dishes and put them away because doctors will come and check it out and eat it. That was the last and then catch him because I think as he's dying, he his wife finds like glass shards and his Yeah, the doctor doesn't die because he just has the one meal. So the wife like looks in the chamberpot. She's like,

wait a second, this is shining. So they're like, oh, these two girls murdered them. They go on the run. They go they start like trying to work, um and you know, Violette as a tough time and they work as a as laundresses and then they have a scheme to get fake passports uh and to be on the run. And she gets really subsidized by Bye prosperins father, which was very weirdly, I think because they're so little touching things.

It was very touching of like he she realized her father always left her, even though it was complicated the way he behaved through all that. But although there are worst lives, worst lives for like an unattractive daughter who maybe wouldn't be married in this town economy than to be a witchy intern. Yeah yeah, yeah, like no, I mean, I think if if not for violed is incredibly abusive husband, Breastbine could have had a very good life as kind

of the town. Which, yeah, like you, I had so much sympathy empathy for the father because like, that's what you had to do in those times, sort of right, You had to get your macaroni store and you get the money from it. He sold the macaroni store. I think the father also chose her because he knew that

she was the one who could handle herself. And also I think that she was the least attractive conventionally attractive of her sisters, and he knew that she was probably less likely to get raped if she was given to this artist to serve in his household, which just really hurt me that he had to think about that and that that was a consideration. He's like, no, you're going to do a great job, and you're homely and you're

good at work. M h um. And I mean as as I think we find out later, Preferring has no interest in being married to a man that is not on her list of goals in life. Um, it seems much better for her to take a job where she will not have to do that. Yeah. Also happy pride, prosperinge, Yeah, yeah, which then, as we find out colors her relationship with Violetta, that her protectiveness was not only uh, female friendship, but romantic love. I mean she said pretty early on that

she had nice tips. So yeah, Domicos like, you talked like a man, and he's like, no, not could that be. But hotly for furthering the stereotype that lesbians are, which is whiches or carpenters, which is occupation. That's the binary. But yeah, so Prospering tells Domenico that Theoletta died in the Old Country. Funny, he really, she really comically realizes that she needs to backtrack, that she's telling the story. And then he's like, wait, both of you, both of

you came to America. What She's like, No, I said, just me. She dead? Yeah. She has two explanations. First of all, she says, she's she's dead, and then she says, um, she married the lawyer. She married the lawyer who got us the passport, so it was fine. And she says, I thought you said she was dead, and she's like, yeah, that's right, she married the lawyer. And and also it was like and she's she was almost as beautiful than that. She has now now I thought you said she said,

I mean she would have been anyway she was. I don't know. I didn't see her. An hour ago became very clear that the Aletta was in fact Ignazia in a way that that I love that. Even Dominico, it's so like dumb that he so he kind of angrily just doesn't want to believe it and also wouldn't think that's rad of his wife. Where you're abusing someone and you find out that they murdered the last person who abused them, that would not be rad for you. I guess if I was married to be Aletta, I would

be like that was rad. Any of us were married to Aletta much better than her. Life of Domenico is. You're listening to Popcorn book Club for my Heart Radio, and we'll be back right after the break. Okay, we're back with Popcorn book Club. I haven't watched the HBO adaptation yet, but I want to find this scene in it better exist of its episode five. I haven't gotten there yet. I watched the first four episodes, so I

actually finished right at the return of Nedra Frank. Yeah, so right, she's dropping the thing on him, which he did not drop on his foot. She like put it on him a little forcefully, but not in the comical way that happened in the book. I find a brief aside. I found the show hard to watch because because the things that are described in the book are really brutal, but there's a certain distance of it just being text.

We're like seeing someone saw through their hand. They show the show it, they don't show it in close up, for which I am very grateful thing. But then it PAMs up his stump. No I, I screamed, oh good, okay, I live alone. Didn't I don't know if that's something wrong with me or I live alone? And so no one. I wasn't like with anyone saying it, but the sound out of my mouth was okay. Back to the story, he's Domenico's reaction is like, this sucks. I now live with a murderer. I want to get her out of

my house. Well, he's like, yeah, you're right. This doesn't end well for the abuser, and then he refuses to eat anything. And it's weird that that's not like a cautionary tale for him of like, I better be nice to these ladies. Don't kill me. You know, he just he just eats his food outside of and puts his dresser in front of his door. But he's still sleeping with Ignace, which is probably a huge relief for her. Yeah, so one reprieve in her life, I know, but instead

starts sleeping with a teenager at the like it's a secretary. No, no, no, start sleeping with teenaged like sex worker and then down to the secretary. You also that sex workers. Seemed like maybe she was also an intern because she was sweeping when he came in. He thought that she was going to take him to his lady of the evening, and then she was his teenager, she's a secret and he was like, man, she was so young. Anyway, I continued

to funck only her just such a wretched man. I feel like, when when this is justice for At the beginning, when Nidro was like, don't give this to your mom, yeah, Nature was like he's the worst and awful and this is a bad gift for your mother. Yeah. No, Nedro was like a hundred percent correct, and she was she was trying to protect Connie and Dominic and definitely not Domenico. I think that she was like, he's horrible I hate this.

He's toxic, but I need to protect this lady because she does not need to know in her last that her father hated her mother. Yeah, routinely. Okay, I can't believe that I'm going to mount any kind of defensive Domenica, who you know, is very, very bad. He's a bad person. But the one thing that did make me feel a little bit of sympathy for him was this woman does not want to marry him, but he says she will

see my house and she will love me. And I think he is so limited by his perceptions of what a good man and a good husband would be of Like I did the thing. I came to America. I worked really hard, I built house. That is what it means to be a good man, and my reward for

that it will be being loved. And he just doesn't have any of the tools for how you actually create a relationship through communication and through tenderness and through gentlenes us that maybe she's brother, Frankly had more of brother, both brothers, like I don't know. Vince seemed pretty fun, how he seemed good with women like he seems he seemed to be giving them a pretty good time. It's like it is a tragedy too, and that I feel like that's what Dominic gets out of reading this book.

He's like that tragedy of what masculinity is in Dominico's mind, which is like build a house, have a wife, make an income, be loved. That's how it works. Well, it's it's also being he had these dreams of being like revered and widely adored, and he had all these like that word Dominic cause he's a grandiose like he was.

He had this big view of himself. But you could see it's like it all came back to his father who had the metal and had to give it away, and that he gets this metal, you know it all. But it's and then when the mayor like is like, oh these you know, Italian immigrants ruined everything, and you know, it feels it is tragic. It's he's a but he's a very flawed bad man. But it's a tragic story. Um,

he does get that. The one happy moment I guess for everyone is when he kind of he goes back to the church and he confesses, um about among other things, he's he's terrible worried that his brother was fucking a monkey, and um, the priest navigates it really, really nicely, and the priest also tells him that he has to humble himself and that one way he can do that is he can start writing down what's happened to him and he can start, you know, considering how those things shaped him.

And sadly, the only way to Menico knows how to do that is to couch it in the guys of being a guide for Italian young men of how to be great like me that because I'm so awesome. So um, he's not really able to humble himself, but it is a kind of therapy. So then just to fast forward bullet point through the next few plot points, which I might get the order wrong, but he basically sends Prospering.

He calls the monkey to work at the boarding house like five or six days a week, and that's sort of their new stasis until they he catches Prospering and Ignausia trying to run away to New York, and he uses the classic Tempesta strategy to get them back, which is a weaponizing policeman, and he makes his peace with the church, and um, the head of the church asks him to volunteer his time for free to help build a school, and it's kind of the only nice moment

for everybody in his life that you know, he about how like God, I'm giving away millions of dollars essentially to do this for free and free advice. But it makes him really happy, like he gets to build something good. And when they have a ceremony to open the school, the priest who knows about his father's medal, um says that this wouldn't have happened without Domenico Tempesta and he gives him a medal, and his wife is really proud of him, and his daughter collapse and says Papa, Papa,

and it's probably the best day of his life. Yes, and then he has his medal. I think something that's also important is the catalyst for them running away to New York is the fact that in a fit of rage, Domenico was like a slam a door and he slammed it on Connie's finger. And Um, the reason he is here is is because Prospering spits on his medal and tells him that his medal is dumb because hear it every single week, but it means a lot to him, like it does. It has great sent him told, but

also he sucks whatever. He slams Connie's fingers by accident, but it's even like too proud and too angry to even say it was an accident or apologize or even like he does. He does slam it by accident, but it's in a fit of rage or just not an accident. And I feel like that's important to clarify because a lot of abuse that happens in homes is like, oh, it was an accident that I punched this wall and scared you, or I didn't mean to like knock over

this chair and hit you. Raises the same thing later about raking Connie's arm. Yes, it's just an accident. Yes,

thank you for that clarification. So uh Nausea and Prospering do the very smart thing of getting the hell out of there, away from this incredibly abusive man, starting over with almost no money, which is very scary because all uh they do is he just whenever she needs to buy something, he gives her the exact chain age, which is as Domenico even comments, I mean, he doesn't couch it this way, but it is an act of abuse and control because then she doesn't have income to to

be independent to leave him. Oh yeah, no, I mean I think, um, it's not a form of abuse that's talked about very often, but I think men who really really limit their wives finances enough that they could never leave that is a form of abuse. And then, uh, the boarding house lady tips him off. He beats them to the train station, and like I said, weaponized systemic sexism, racism, classic Tempesta move. Befriends the policeman and pretends like he's just picking someone up and he's like, and if I

need something, I'll just I'll just wave. He confronts them, they get on the train. He threatens them with the police. Uh, and Ignazia gets scared because she thinks that Connie is going to be taken away from her. I mean, maybe justifiably, because as we see later, Domenico is very ruthless and awful, and Prospering gets on the I'm gonna bullpoint because we have so much to cover, so I'm gonna skip over, and I want to talk about the show too. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Prospering Uh gets on the train, Ignasia comes back with Connie, and then you know, there's a new stasis for a little while until he catches Prospering back in the house back from New York, having sex with Ignazia, and we realized that there was this relationship there all along, and that you know, that was sort of the only intimacy that they had had. He's furious. He locks Prospering up

in an insane asylum. Settle, Yeah, with Settle, that's the Settle gets her in the insane asylum and then begins really viciously basically torturing Ignasia by having sex with her ending like and then as she's falling asleep, whispering in her ear like, I hope I got you pregnant. It bursts your heart and it kills Yeah, that's what you just horrified. The added detail of that he like waits for her breath and sobbing to subside, and like waits for her almost to fall asleep, like that is the

unsettling moment of cruelty that like chilled my blood. Yeah, and I and after torturing, being tortured by this abusive rapist who institutionalized her lover and only friend in the world, Uh, she takes Connie and uh, well, she commits suicide by going into the pond below the ice um. But she attempted to bring Connie along with her and make it a murder suicide. But there's a sign of struggle and and and Connie escaped and ran away from her mother

and comes back to to Domenico. Also she poisoned a dog, got a dog, really and she's not allowed to have any friends Americans. But even the woman who runs the boarding house, the Italian woman, it's like, oh, your wife doesn't come to see me lately, Like why is that? And of what she does not say is because I'm not allowing courtesy, because that was like especially painful was that because of that too, She like didn't get a chance to practice English, didn't get a chance to practice

like Italian dining, reading anything. It was just like a complete isolation and cutting off, cutting her off of like any resources whatsoever, just like completely dehumanizing this woman. You can't be friends with any American. Well, you can talk. It reminded me of what happened was Ray and Connie that when they go to the movies and they have a bad experience on the bus, she tells her kids, you you can't talk about it because Ray won't let us go to the movies anymore. Well, and um, that's

that's not something her husband should have control over. That's that's a call you should be allowed to make on your own it. Um. It reminded me. It's a little later in the book, but I highlighted it of like, uh, when it's about the gang Green raised Gangreen that has to cut off because it's dead, and says, you know, I keep on talking about starved something long enough and

it dies. And he keeps on talking about how Domenico eventually died of starving, like he starved himself and he but he also starved Ignasia and you know, all of and Thomas was starved. It's like everyone in this book was starved of their needs. Um. And that's how all of them collectively and individually. That was like the theme of all and Deessa specifically even says that like you, you sucked all the ac I can't. I can't breathe.

It's like she that marriage died of starvation too, because Dominic was incapable of giving her the emotional support and affection that she needed after their daughter died. Yeah, so woof that is uh. And then the story basically and Domenico story basically, and you know, Connie grows up and he's like, and I loved her, and I'm a man of the town and I'm great, uh, and everything's wonderful and it's fine. And he said he loved her because

he didn't tell anyone what happened. He was good at keeping secrets, and in that moment, I loved her, Like was the reason he also liked me to eat cigarettes. I mean, I think his perspective of love is still so yeah, he doesn't he doesn't have a it's not a happy story about a single father. Now. It's not like, Wow, the young are really changed from that point on. It was just a wacky l family comedy. His own story.

He interrupts his own story several times. I'm like, oh, my ugly daughter came over to make me lunch like an asshole old and she keeps telling me to lie down and take a nap, and I'm like, bitch, bring

me an onion. Literally something that happened. But the story ends with Dominic not getting the answer that he wants, which is he was reading this whole thing hoping that it would either have the horrific reveal that Dominico raped Connie and that the man that he thought was his grandfather was actually either just his father or also his father um or who his real father was. So he doesn't get that, and so he's like, oh, well, this sucks. It was like what was the point of reading? But

so that's that's uh, oh my god. There's so much in the six I don't even know we're gonna even tackle dominic scited story. And I do want to say something about the Domenico story. The last thing um he talks a lot about, which is this like Sicilian silence and stoicness that exists, and this for him is the

closest he's ever come to breaking this silence. And I think that it's interesting that he made all the arrangements for his own burial and his own death preparation, which is just like so type a um and on his headstone it says the greatest griefs are silent. Yeah. He talks about sort of how all of this grief existed in him in that way, but that he kept it silent and he maintained ota unlike the people in the north of Italy who were just like talking about how

they feel all the time. M hm. And I feel like Dominic sort of maybe epigenetically has inherited this opta and the then we talked a little bit about how the happy ending for him could have just been him going to therapy and sort of breaking this silence, and in a way, it's really good that he did do that, and as well, I think it's something that affects every man that we really learn a lot about in the course of this book, This idea that you can't talk

about your feelings, you have to be strong all the time, and how incredibly harmful and toxic and sometimes deadly that can be to those people. Um that it doesn't just cause pain for all the women around them, although it does, um it causes so much personal internal pain for them as well. That's our show for the week. Thank you so much for listening. I'm Danish Schwartz and you can find me on Twitter at Danish Swartz with three z's. You can follow Jennifer Wright at Jen Ashley Right Drama.

Donqua is at Garama Drama, Melissa Hunter is at Melissa f t W and Tan Tran is smart enough to have gotten off Twitter, but she is on Insta at Pink Tina. Our Executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis, and We're produced and edited by Mike Johns. Special thanks to David Wasserman. Still to come. The exciting conclusion of I Know this much is true the Home Game edition, when Ralph is like, Hey, you need to get your brother tested for HIV, I was like trauma, Bingo, here we go. That's what I'm

waiting for. Popcorn book Club is a production of I Heart Radio