Okay, so does this sound like you? You love NPR's podcasts, you wish you could get more of all your favorite shows, and you want to support NPR's mission to create a more informed public. If all that sounds appealing, then it is time to sign up for the NPR Plus bundle. Learn more at plus.npr.org.
The Korean drama Squid Game became a global sensation when it dropped three years ago. The show, which became the most popular offering in Netflix's history, combines pitch-black satire of late-stage capitalism with bloody violence. I'm Stephen Thompson, and today we are talking about the second season of Squid Game on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.
Joining me today is Jaeha Kim. She's a syndicated columnist whose work runs in the Chicago Tribune. Welcome, Jaeha. Hi, Stephen. Thank you for having me. Also with us is Janet Wujung-Lee. She's a producer on NPR's Education Desk. Welcome back, Janet. Thank you. Excited to be here. So Squid Game's first season won six Emmys, spawned countless Halloween costumes, and even spun off a deeply ill-conceived reality competition show in which thankfully no one was gunned down in court.
So it's only natural that Hwang Dong-hyuk, who wrote and directed season one, has made a second season with a third scheduled to drop sometime in 2025. It's hard to discuss season two without spoiling elements of season one. so consider yourselves warned. In season one, we meet Sung Gi-hoon, who's deep in debt and estranged from his family. He's recruited by a mysterious stranger on a subway platform and soon winds up in an undisclosed location.
456 participants in a massive competition. They must play children's games against each other, at which point it becomes abundantly clear that those who lose are slaughtered in brutal fashion. At the end of season one, Gi-hun wins the game, and with it, a massive cash prize. But he's haunted by what he's seen, and he pledges to get revenge on behalf of the people who've lost their lives. Naturally, and this isn't a major spoiler, Gi-hun winds up sucked back into the games where he must...
fight for his life, rally new players to his cause, and try to destroy the system from the inside. And his efforts are complicated by the presence of the front man, played by Lee Byung-hun. He's posing as a player in Echoes of the First Season. Season 2 of Squid Game is streaming on Netflix now. Jeha, I'm going to start with you. What did you think of this new season?
I thought the season was very good. I know that some people are saying, oh, we didn't need a season two. And actually, that's what I said when I was last on talking about Squid Game. I thought the ending was pretty perfect three years ago. But with that said, the director, Mr. Hong, does bring about a lot of new aspects to the show that I think viewers will find intriguing. And it's not just boom, boom, everyone's going to die. There's a lot going on there that we can.
unpack. How about you, Janet? I feel bad now because that was very generous of you.
I'm going to be honest. I was a little disappointed. I think I am still working through some mixed feelings. The highs, I would agree with you, Chaea. I think there are a lot of new elements that really worked for me. Some twists in the games. And I think when we're back in the games, actually, I'm just as... into it and locked in as i was in season one the lows i wasn't as big of a fan as the main plot line of this season when trying to
bring down the front man and shut down the games. I think the pacing was a little off. I think it dragged a little bit. They spend roughly three episodes kind of setting this all up. And then I can't be the only person here who finished it. and then looked up how many episodes are in Squid Game.
Because I couldn't believe that that's how it ended, right? Yeah, and I kind of come down right in between the two of you. I think that in general, I felt like the season doesn't feel superfluous. I understand people who felt like it ended. perfectly with season one and there was no need to do more. I mean, Huang has said in interviews that he basically did seasons two and three to make the money he should have made on season one, which tells you something about the system.
that this show is commenting on I do think it feels like it has a reason to exist I agree with Janet that there are several episodes that feel really misshapen my biggest issues with this season are with the first episode and the last episode where the first episode to me just takes way too long to get going. When you only have seven episodes in a season, spending this much time on throat clearing felt...
It felt in a way both padded and rushed. The last episode, it kind of devolves into fairly repetitious violence that to me is nowhere near as compelling as a lot of the stuff that you're getting. in the context of these games. I do appreciate, and kind of the next thing I wanted to talk about, I did appreciate how quickly this show got me hooked on a bunch of new characters. Because, you know, Gi-hun goes back into the games, and of course, he's now one.
of 456 people and you have to suddenly meet and become invested in a whole bunch of new people and they introduce like a a really creepy rapper. They introduced a crypto bro and his pregnant ex and kind of the repercussions of this crypto scam gone awry.
There's a trans woman who's looking to fund her transition and move to Thailand. There's a debtor whose mother winds up in the games with them. There are a lot of these really compelling storylines that aren't... taking you out of the central plot, but are introducing new people to become invested in and care about.
Did you guys have favorites among those? For me, my favorite was Hyunju, the trans woman. I love that she was presented as a full-flesh character instead of a farce or a stereotype, which Korean dramas have been. you know, known to do this with members of the LGBTQ plus community. I know that there was a lot of controversy about them not hiring a trans actress to play the role that Park Song Hoon played, but... You know, one of the things that was brought up is there are very few.
openly out trans actresses in South Korea right now. I'm hoping that, you know, that this character kind of opened the door for more opportunities for actual trans actresses or trans actors. to tackle these type of roles, but I do think it was an important inclusion in this season. I really enjoyed who she was as well, because she wasn't just like one of the women that didn't know what to do. She turned out to be one of the heroes.
in my opinion absolutely and she's not defined entirely by her transness she's also as you say a full-fledged character and a heroic one and and one who's very brave and bold and strategic Definitely one of the people in whom I'm deeply invested. Yes. Yeah, and especially at the end, we learn that she was like an ex-military... Special forces. Yeah, special forces too, which...
In Korea, that's like a whole other deal for those who have to serve in mandatory military service to be like, I served in the special forces. Yeah, I also really, really loved Hyunjoo's plotline. I think the other one that I would probably add... It's also kind of a dynamic we didn't see in the first season, the mother-son pairing. Oh, man. The moment they showed up on screen, I knew they were going to be the ones to make me cry. And they sure did.
I've been a fan of Yang Dong-geun, the actor who plays Yong-shik for a while. He's also a really talented rapper and hip-hop artist. So I was first really interested in seeing him in the show in general.
But I was really, really, really moved by the performance of 강예심, the actor who plays his mom, 금자. What a phenomenal, like... pairing their chemistry i thought was incredible which i also want to point out kind of represents a lot of i say korean moms like in her age range towards her son and specifically son kind of coming from that patriarchal society south korea comes from
that he could do nothing wrong. She's literally in the games to pay off his debt. And there's one scene when the front man questions her son's morals and that he might have...
left her behind or gave up on her in a game that she might have lost her life. And that's the only time where she speaks up and says, do not think ill of my son. And not just to the front man, but once they... reunite at the end of that round of the games she actually comforts him and tells him that you did nothing wrong and she wants everyone including her son to think that he did nothing wrong and to think nothing ill of himself
That scene just broke me into pieces. Yeah, that performance by Ganga Shim as the mother is really, it is a remarkable performance. And, you know, one thing that the creator of the show was saying. kind of that kind of in between season one and season two. You know, he had a hard time in some cases casting roles that he wanted in season one. Right. And then it became this massive global phenomenon and he was able to sort of get everyone he wanted. Suddenly.
Squid Game season one opened all these doors. And there are some truly magnificent actors on this season. And she is one of them that I just kept. fixing on her face. And while we're talking about... things that work really well in the season or that I really appreciated about this season, let's pause to give thanks for the fact that there are no appearances by American VIPs. Yes!
There's like an entire episode of season one that is like completely derailed by the presence of these Americans who are like... I was like this, like, no, please don't pop on again. I think they were universally disliked, not just because of who they were and the characters, but because of the poor acting. Well, and to be fair to those actors.
I'm not sure the English language screenwriting was as strong as the Korean language screenwriting. This is true. If the VIPs show up next season, that it's with better acting and lines and actors. Actually, I'm hoping they don't appear at all. I was going to say, they could just hang out in season one. That's right. Yeah. I guess instead, this season, we got to hear a little bit more about... The staff who work for the show. Yes. Yeah. Another twist I liked. I really love seeing how Noelle.
yeah appeared in this because at first i just thought oh she's she's the north korean defector so of course she's going to be competing to get money to get her baby out of korea and then when it turned out that dude you know she had the pink suit on and the mask i was like what is going on here and she had such
depth to her that I can't figure out why she's there. Like, is she a good person? Is she a bad person? Is she a little bit of both? Is she just doing whatever she needs to, to get what she needs? I thought she was an intriguing character. It's interesting because I think it built up a little bit about how including the North Korean sniper, as well as the front man in certain way, telling us like at the end of the day.
Both of them are in different ways victims of the same system as the players, but they took a very different route, I guess, in responding to that. When I got to learn more about the front man's backstory of losing his wife.
You know, that chilling scene of him telling the story in present tense as if he's going back to his wife, right? Right. I felt a little bit of hope that maybe that Gi-hun can pull all this together in a way that he can reunite all forces. But then with the way the season went... And sort of how even the crowd that's playing the game being so divided through this new voting system.
I think I had like a bit of mixed feelings about how it was all going. There's still a lot to tie up. There's like loose ends everywhere that I think viewers want to have, like you were saying, some kind of closure with at least some of the characters who we're not going to see.
in the next season because they died or they supposedly died, you know? Right. Yeah. I mean, I think it speaks to one of the central issues that I had with the season that I think a lot of people had with the season is it really does feel like half of a season. It ends certainly on like kind of a dramatic cliffhanger, but it doesn't feel like there's a complete arc.
I did want to talk a little bit more about the twist that we've alluded to a couple of times that's introduced in this season, where in this round of games, there is this very dramatic... very consistent with the rest of the show, very visually compelling angle in which at the end of every round of games, the participants vote on whether to continue and whether to basically split.
what is there in the pot of money at the end of each round. And that introduces a ton of character development. You get a sense of where everybody who's participating in the game stands. And kind of what some of their motivations are. Because part of what everybody's trying to do is they're participating in these games in the first place because they're deeply in debt. And some people are more in debt than others. And so the amount of money that they've earned.
isn't necessarily going to be enough to justify the bloodshed they've experienced. And you also get a sense of the kind of element of gambling that goes into it. I found that to be a very compelling and I think it's certainly. is going to speak to a lot of people, you know, and sort of what it has to say about inherent flaws in the way democracy has carried out.
There's been a ton of conversations in any country that's had elections about how people vote and how those votes pertain to their self-interest. This season has a lot of really chewy and interesting things to say. about democracy i agree i mean in the first episode when we see the salesman the gong you character go into the park i had to like look really closely i was like that's top called park in seoul And that is the scene of what a lot of Koreans went to fight against Japanese colonialism.
Why can't I say the L's? It's because I'm Korean? Colonialism is a hard word for all of us. It's hard to say, yeah. Jeez, it's not like I'm a reporter or anything. But I thought that that was a really clever aspect because... Here on the one hand, they're showing this is the site where democracy lived at one point. And then they show the salesman.
not really offering a valid choice to the homeless. It's like, here, you want a bun that could satiate your appetite for now? Or, hey, here's a lotto ticket that, you know, it could change your life. And almost everybody picked the lotto ticket and they lost. And then he cruelly stomped on all the leftover food. I mean, what was their choice for the homeless here? Did they even have a choice? They were basically competing for hope like they do on the island with Squid Game.
I just thought that that was a really clever touch that they added because people, especially Koreans, will pick up on that site. Yeah, I was thinking about that. And going back to the scene or sequence you're referring to, Steven.
It was really painful to watch. It ached a little bit. I also thought visually it was... incredibly effective they're wearing these patches with the x and os and it really heightens up towards the end they don't even mingle anymore in fact it felt like the scarlet letter you know yeah it's like the scarlet letter and yeah sometimes like you see
Later on, like Jungba being embarrassed that he voted O and like kind of like sometimes like hides it in front of his friend once he realized. Almost covering the patch on his chest. I mean, the patches are such a clever.
visual cue to just to get a sense of where each person stands you can just look at them yeah and get a sense like okay this person voted to continue this and how much this show has to say not only we've touched on what it has to say about capitalism and what it has to say about democracy, but also what it has to say about gambling.
And a lot of the people who are in this situation, and this was true in season one as well, are people who racked up enormous amounts of gambling debt. So then putting those people in a position. to vote whether or not to continue. You're literally standing there looking at two buttons and deciding whether to play double or nothing. And it is a very, very powerful metaphor.
And you really get a sense of how these people are just under a boot heel and the system is set up in such a way that getting out from under that boot heel is so difficult and also disincentivized. I think on the note of gambling, one other thought that I had was the demographics of players shifted a little bit this season.
South Korea saw a huge number of young people investing in cryptocurrency during COVID. And I think that's a reflection of that. You definitely see that in Aime Siwon's character, Byungi, who's... you know, the cryptocurrency investor, YouTuber, influencer guy, and a bunch of young men like chase after him. It's like your fault that I am here. Right. They lost their money on his coin. Yeah. It shows how these young characters, you know, some of them.
if you owe like $10,000, you know, you could recoup it when you're maybe 30 or 40 or 50, but owing millions, how are you going to do that? I think that. the show did a really good aspect of showing that it's not just one age group that this is affected by. I mean, it's not just one microcosm. So a lot of us remember kind of the now iconic games from season one. They do change up a bunch of the games here. And I was wondering what you guys thought of these different games that were introduced.
in this season i really like the merry-go-round one because it was shocking and at first i was thinking it'd be kind of like that Korean variety show, Running Man, where you just have to run around and sit on a chair. And then when I realized, oh my gosh, it has to be a certain number to get into a certain room. And the losers, I mean, they lose with their life. That one was the one that was the most shocking and compelling.
for me yeah also at the merry-go-round there are moments where they it was like an aerial shot and it really looked like these weren't people and they were just kind of little chess pieces like standing on like a board and i i thought That was really visually effective going into this season in terms of the games.
It kind of reminded me of when I watched the second Hunger Games movie for the first time. So it's kind of like, you know, I knew in general what the games were going to look like. I knew what was at stake. But I still think some of the strongest parts of the series were the actual games. And I think they really leveled up when it became just one of the games they chose and the production design. I also really liked the pantathlon.
When the set opened up, it really reminded me of elementary school field day in South Korea and the music they play that like kind of signals that event. You know, everyone's kind of locked in for a second. You're trying to team up. You're trying to raise spirits because you have to do this together. And then you see five.
korean traditional games i think a lot of folks my age or older grew up with um i was familiar with all of them so that was cool to just like see them playing something that i actually know how to play unlike the squid game that i never quite figured out how to play which was embarrassing me um no it's because it's hard that one it's hard yeah so i guess in a way the games are all a little more straightforward which also helped yeah there was something about
five people in some cases like the underdogs group who don't maybe have a ton in common grouped up together um going through these like rounds of games and watching their really white sneakers stepping on pools of blood. Then it cuts back into them cheering for each other to get through the next game and then it cuts back to them stepping on blood.
Something about that scene was such an emotional roller coaster for me. That was painful to watch. For me too, what that game showed me was that women actually were needed in that game. It wasn't just... the brawny men who like could run faster or lift things. It's like, they could do the duck G they could do, you know, um,
The hacky sack. Kongi. Kongi, thank you. Yeah, Kongi with the fire. Which, you know, I'm horrible at. I'm better at the hacky sack. One thing that I really appreciated about these games in particular... They seem to be chosen and played out with an understanding toward how a lot of reality TV competition works. That you not only have a competition where people are...
Living or dying based on their ability to play these games. But there is also this element where you are introducing opportunities for interpersonal conflict. You're introducing opportunities for resentment. Particularly in the merry-go-round game, which is kind of this game of musical chairs where you have to choose the exact number of people to go into these rooms. But you're forced.
to either team up with people or abandon people. And when you are abandoning someone, you are effectively, you're certainly risking their lives, if not killing them outright. is such a way that games like these would be orchestrated to create interpersonal conflict because they are trying to get people to want to kill each other.
That, to me, felt like this is a show that is made with an inherent understanding of how reality television works. I think that, if they had gotten that wrong, I would have noticed. And so it's worth it. acknowledging how much they get it right. You know, one scene that stands out to me is when they serve... their meal of kimbap and there was a fork in there and i was thinking kimbap is not eaten with a fork it's literally a finger food or chopsticks when i saw that fork
They wanted them to fight more. They wanted them to kill each other off more before the official games. That itself was horrifying that they're thinking, oh, this isn't enough killing. Here, have your meal and then stab each other to death. And that's exactly what they do. So I wanted to mention one more thing before we go. Speaking of food. I watched several episodes of this show on Netflix with commercials.
And some of you spring for the ad-free. Some of you might get the version where there are occasional commercial interruptions. There is an ad in the rotation of commercials that air during Squid Game for Domino's Pizza. And is set in red light green light. What? So a guy is playing red light green light in Squid Game with the creepy doll.
And he's like lunging forward and he's like, boy, I could use an emergency pizza right now. And then like a Domino's delivery driver like pops up through a trap door and is like, here, have your emergency pizza. And then it's like, oh, we moved. A free pizza to use when you need it most. Not since Squid Game The Challenge. Oh dear. The reality show based on Squid Game. Has there been such a deep...
deep misunderstanding of what Squid Game is trying to say and what the audience is meant to be feeling while watching it. Okay, Stephen, would you have been happier if it was a Subway ad? Because that pops up in K-traumas everywhere. This is crazy. Oh, wow. All right. Well, we want to know what you think about commercials on Squid Game. We want to know what you think about the second season of Squid Game. Find us at facebook.com slash pchh. That brings us to the end of our show.
Janet Ujung Lee, J. Ha Kim, thanks so much for being here. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Janet also provided additional translation help. Thank you for that. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Lennon Sherburn and edited by Jessica Reedy and Mike Katz. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all tomorrow.