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In the Disney film Moana, a girl who had always yearned to go exploring, got her chance to see more of the world. And now in Moana 2, she's older and has a new purpose. With the help of her chicken, her pig, and her demigod pal Moana. Maui. Moana wants more than just exploration. She wants to connect with people from new places. I'm Aisha Harris. And I'm Linda Holmes. And today we're talking about Moana 2 on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.
Also with us is Ronald Young Jr. He is the new host of Pop Culture Debate Club from Lemonada and the BBC. Hello, Ronald. Welcome back. Hello, Linda. Hello, Aisha. I'm happy. to be back. You are back. So Moana was a big hit for Disney in 2016. It was also nominated for Best Animated Feature at the Oscars. And it's no surprise that we are back for another round. Please.
Auli'i Cravalho once again plays Moana, who's a few years older than she was when we left her. Dwayne Johnson is back as Maui, the demigod who talks to his tattoos. But while in the first film, Moana was trying to establish herself, She's now a hero to her community and a well-known explorer. So she takes on the task of figuring out how to reunite her island with people from across the ocean, reestablishing bonds that were broken by a curse.
There's a new batch of songs, although Lin-Manuel Miranda didn't work on this one. Songwriters Abigail Barlow, Emily Baer, Opitaya Fuai.
And Mark Mancina worked on this one. Moana 2 is in theaters now. Ronald, I'm going to start with you. How did you like Moana 2? Before I even stepped into the theater, I... looked up the details as i often do and i saw that there was three directors and if you look at the history you walk in with three directors you're automatically saying what was the history of this movie and it turns out that it started off as a series and there were parts of this movie in the beginning that felt like
like a television series more than it felt like an actual film. And while it got bigger as it moved on, kind of the tone and the pacing didn't really go beyond television for me. Watching it just kind of felt like just a straight shot right down the middle where I wasn't super excited. I also wasn't super like I didn't hate it. So it was like kind of right down the middle for me.
It's interesting that you mention that because if you take out the very long credits that these kinds of films always have as a result of the amount of work that goes into them, this is roughly an hour and a half long. And it takes about...
a half an hour for her to even really kind of start the journey that she's going to go on. And I felt like that was a little slow at the beginning. I kind of had that same feeling that like, okay, I, you know, especially since she's starting out in this position of. kind of being beloved by everyone and she's everyone's hero. That to me is a less...
compelling setup on its own than somebody who is kind of your traditional I want song. Aisha, what did you think? Well, I do want to say that having three directors for an animated film isn't that unheard of. I mean, a lot of these films tend to have. at least two. I think of like Frozen. That's not that uncommon. But to your point, Ronald, I do agree. It was giving kind of like The Little Mermaid the series, which I, that kind of vibe. But overall, you know, I thought like...
Again, just like the first film, it is beautiful to watch. It is gorgeous. Like, as far as animation goes, this is, I think, one of the... like the pinnacles of animation as it stands right now. There's a moment where we have like a vision of Moana's future. Like she's looking at what the future could hold for her. And at one point the colors get sort of muted gray, like gray scale, but then there's a little hint.
of color here and there. And it's just like, it looked great. I loved it. I loved that aspect of it. Oh, I'm sure we'll get into this, but Glenn Manuel. People like to clown on him all day for various reasons. And he can be a lot. He can be, he's big theater kid energy. Yes. But you know what? He is a huge reason why the first Moana might be.
Like exactly what a Disney animated film should be. That is what I hope for. And while when that movie came out, there were a lot of comparisons to The Little Mermaid. And yes, it's similar. I do think it stands on its own. And here we've got a sort of almost, not a carbon copy, but like a light copy and paste of its direct predecessor, Moana. I was very kind of mixed on this overall. Yeah, I think this misses.
the songwriting, I think. And I want to be fair to these songwriters. One thing that can happen is sometimes you get either directly or indirectly the message that they want the music to kind of be just like the music in. The first one, if you're coming into something, it had a very well-loved set of songs in the first one. And the truth of the matter is like.
You know, he writes in a very specific way that if you like it, you like it. And if you don't like it, you don't like it. But it's very particular. And it's really funny to me. If you're very familiar with some of his other work, you hear these little there intervals. and pieces of phrasing where it's like, yeah, this is him. This is him. I am not sure whether they really had free reign to create. Because you noticed, Aisha, some similarities between.
these songs and the songs in the first one that sort of mapped one-to-one. Yeah, I mean, there are a few songs that... map pretty closely to the first movie, either sonically or thematically, or even both. Here in Moana 2, we have Finding the Way. And in Moana, we had, we know the way. Moana's big I Want song in Moana 2 is Beyond. What lies beyond Under skies I've never seen Will I lose myself between Which is basically just how far I'll go from the first movie.
There's just no telling how far I'll go. It is kind of wild how similar they are. I agree with you. I also think for everything that you say about Lin-Manuel Miranda, like I feel like that style that he has fits. Disney movies? Yes. Between him and then Robert Lopez and Kristen Anderson Lopez, who did Frozen, I feel like there's a certain type of energy and type of flow that you have as a songwriter that fits perfectly for Disney movies. And I feel like if you're not the top...
of that, then you're kind of writing in the shadow of those songs. And that's what these songs felt like to me. Yeah, I felt like these songs had a little trouble being as playful as I wanted them to be. I want Disney songs always not to be. Lin-Manuel Miranda playful, but just to be playful. A lot of the songs in The Lion King are really playful. A lot of the songs in Aladdin are playful. When they really go for that, there's one number that Moana does that's sort of supposed to hype up.
everybody who's traveling with her. It was fine. I didn't think it really took off as a playful song. And then there's inevitably, you know, it's interesting because I think the kids in the theater when I saw this. Sort of lit up when Maui showed up, which doesn't happen until about halfway through the movie. Oh, it's late. It felt late to me. And he then has a song, which, of course, he had You're Welcome in the first movie. I did not think the song that they had him do in this was.
as successful and I also think they pushed him farther you know Aisha mentioned this kind of distinction between on the one hand what's like really rapping and what's kind of the music man rhythmic talking patter thing but I feel like this pushed him more towards trying to rap, which he is not a rapper and you can really feel that he's not. And I, listen, I think he has a lot of charm. I think he did surprisingly well. Like when I heard him do You're Welcome, I was like, okay.
This is not bad. It's pretty okay. When they get into the kind of thicker, more rap-type parts of this song... I felt concerned. Can I get a Chi-Hoo? That song, Can I Get a Chi-Hoo? This is one of the songs that doesn't neatly map onto Moana. He's kind of trying to give Moana confidence here. And so while this is happening, we've got this like American Gladiators or like Rocky montage sort of thing happening where she's.
you know, jumping over various objects. And it also kind of reminded me of like, I'll make a man out of you from Mulan. It's like, that's what we're trying to do here. That song slaps. That song? It's a banger. You can play it right now. I'm ready to go. Yes. Let's get down to business. Maui does not really get down to business here. And I'm sorry. He does show up somewhat early in the film, but then he's like. And then he doesn't come back until later. And it's like.
Okay, what are we doing here? Not that we need to like Urkel this. He doesn't need to take over the entire thing. But we do need to give the people what they want, especially the kids what they want. And the kids clearly want Maui. He was the breakout. Say what you will about Dwayne Johnson. Yeah.
As this character, he is electric. He can be electric. This is a great match of character and voice actor. Yeah, and that's what gets lost here. Despite, I haven't said too many nice things about this film, but I did find it charming. There were little jokes. here and there. I think one of my favorite new characters is Kelly. He's the grumpy farmer voiced by David Fane. He joins Moana on this voyage and he's just like, he had some really fun, he also just has like a really expressive.
base. He does. And I just enjoyed having that, like those little sides, like there are little moments here and there that I think are really kind of just like fun and tossed off in a way that made it feel a little bit lighter than it might have otherwise. Charming, yes.
fine is kind of like the word that jumps out of my head. Like this was fine when I left. And I feel like maybe there's kids that will enjoy this more than I will. I think the problem with something like Moana 2 is that in my mind, I'm not comparing it against Gladiator.
to or wicked in my mind i'm not comparing it against those i'm comparing it against the wild robot which is also like a children's movie and i walked out of that movie changed you know and i feel like in terms of what animated movies were doing during this
surge of animation. Basically, let's call it the Pixar DreamWorks surge of animated movies. They were proven to us that animated movies can be both topical and funny and enjoyable for adults while also maintaining the line for kids, telling a story with the beginning, middle, and end.
with conflict and all of that. And I feel like in a world where the best of these movies are at the top and are in best picture conversations, when you come with something like Moana 2, my question is, hey, y'all can crank this out. And yes, it is merchandising.
And yes, it looks like you might be setting up for Moana 3, but like, do y'all really care about being the best anymore? Or do you just care about just getting the movie out to like capitalize on the wave and the holiday and all of that? I think in an effort to get...
from sort of under the shadow of the first one and try to do something new. What they did is they just complicated the plot in a bunch of ways. I think the... plot of this is pretty messy there's there's a lot of like you have to do this to do this but then there's a thing where you got to go on a kind of a side quest and then you got to go over here and you have this character who is played by afimai fraser who is kind of the baddie, and I don't think they really resolve that story very...
successfully and she kind of seems like she drops into the movie and it's not clear entirely why except to provide some plot. I think the plot wanders in this one quite a bit more than it wanders in the first one and quite a bit more than I prefer. for the plot to wander in a Disney movie, which I think really can be fairly straightforward. It makes me sort of feel more like things are sort of getting checked off a list. Like we wanted to have a number like this.
And this is how we fit it in. Yeah. I mean, that was one of my big takeaways after getting out of this film was like that. I still am not entirely sure what they had to do to accomplish. And the thing is, they explain it multiple times. But like, I can imagine being a six-year-old kid and being like, I don't know what just happened here, but Mally was cool. So I do think... You know, every empire eventually falls or just like has ebbs and flows. I think Disney is constantly like.
part of its legacy is, you know, constantly being at the top for a very long time and then falling off. And Disney has been in that stage for quite some time now of having like some, you know, they had the sort of... The 10s had its period, you know, Frozen, Moana, Zootopia, Big Hero 6. Like you have those films doing pretty well.
critically and commercially reaching new heights, I think, for the company. But now it's stuck. And when you look at what they have coming for the next few years, most of them are sequels. Even on the Pixar end, we've got Toy Story 5 coming. It's very, very rare that we get like a Toy Story.
story two that justifies its exit or even a toy story three which i think is yes that happened and then they got really confident they're like oh toy story three people loved it also it did really well let's just go all in now so it's like oh No, you're taking the wrong lessons here.
I feel like what gets me about somebody like a Disney or anyone doing animated films is you have to know what exists now and what people are getting excited about. And we're getting excited about Spider-Verse. We're getting excited about mutant mayhem from the Ninja Turtles.
gonna get excited about those so you have to take this seriously and not just put out a movie i think there was a time when people felt like the really adventurous and wonderful animated films were coming out of disney or pixar and they were really doing wonderful and exciting and different things with animated films. They made a lot of the leaps in the animation itself people first saw.
I agree with Aisha. I think the animation in this film is really stunning. You can tell they have a lot of fun animating her hair, which there are things in this that have become so realistic looking that I think it's... It's just a great thing to sit back and look at. But I, listen, with all this said, I think the kids in the theater with me had a pretty good time. They laughed at Maui. They love, they love Maui. They love Maui.
And more power to him because I loved characters like that when I was a kid, too. Agreed. Yeah. All right. Well, tell us what you think about Moana 2. Find us on Facebook at Facebook.com slash PCHH and on Letterboxd at Letterboxd.com slash NPR. pop culture. We'll have a link in our episode description for that. Up next, what's making us happy this week?
If you're the kind of person whose idea of a good party conversation starts with, I heard it on NPR, it might be time to take your super fandom seriously. Deck yourself out in style. NPR swag, from t-shirts to ball caps to the almighty NPR tote, are all at 25% off through December 1st at shop.npr.org.
Hey there, it's Tamara Keith from the NPR Politics Podcast, and I will keep this quick. Giving Tuesday is almost here. The perfect time to support the independent news source you rely on to stay informed. Please give today at donate. npr.org. And thank you. Take a moment to unwind and give thanks this week with NPR's All Songs Considered as listeners share their favorite songs of gratitude. This song speaks to me.
And the basic thing is everybody turns, turns, and lands in the place that they need to be. Download new episodes of All Songs Considered every Tuesday wherever you get podcasts. Holiday travel is stressful, especially if you're dealing with family baggage on top of your actual baggage. I'm going home. I'm going to... revert back to old family roles that are stressful. And so this traffic jam is the straw that's breaking the camel's back. But don't worry, we're here to bring you some relief.
Listen to the Life Kit podcast. We'll help you out this holiday season. Now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What's making us happy this week? Ronald Young Jr., what is making you happy this week? It is pie season. And for me, that means that I just make a bunch of pies between November and January 1st. When I'm making pies, it's very relaxing, very nice. But what has made it even better recently was that...
Famed rapper Kendrick Lamar came out with a new album called GNX. And I'm not a huge Kendrick Lamar fan. I've been team Kendrick throughout this entire beef. We have a whole episode about it on PCHH. Go listen to that. That's even better.
Reference yourself. There you go. Go to the PCHH episode on Kendrick versus Drake. You could get your primer there. What's important to know is that he released the album. Obviously he has the Superbowl and this album is so good. And there's one song that while I'm making pies, I've been listening to. over and over again. It's called Dodger Blue. I was wondering how you were going to connect this to...
Let me tell you, Aisha, if you've been following me on Instagram, I keep posting videos of me like whipping up chocolate, like kneading dough, all of that to this song because it is smoother than butter. I'm telling y'all right now, if you're like. I don't want to listen to the GNX album, which you probably should listen to the whole thing.
But if you only can have time for one song, check out Dodger Blue from Kendrick Lamar's new album, GNX. Do it now. I love it. That's one of my favorites on the album. I love it too. It sounds like pie making music to me. All right. Thank you very much, Ronald. Aisha Harris, what is making you happy this week, my friend? Well, staying sort of in the music lane, if you know me at all, or even a little bit, you know that Stevie Wonder has been a huge part.
of my life since birth, basically. He is one of our national treasures. We should all honor him and honor him. This podcast does. I have been obsessed with The Wonder of Stevie. It is a audible podcast hosted. by Wesley Morris. Here's where I have to insert that Audible is part of Amazon. So Amazon supports NPR and pays to distribute some of our content. End of obligatory comment there. But it's hosted by Wesley Morris.
He is an amazing critic. He's at the New York Times. He is one of our foremost thinkers on all things cultural and pop culture related. And in this series, he is going in-depth into Stevie's imperial era.
So basically he's examining the classic albums he released between 1972 and 1976 from Music of My Mind to Songs in the Key of Life. And sonically, he's just weaving in so many interesting... points and really focusing on these songs and getting into the context of what was happening in the world, what was happening in Stevie's life at the time.
He has interviews with Barack Obama, Smokey Robinson, Questlove. The Obamas do actually, their higher ground company is also a producer on this. So that's why they're involved. But it's just. Such a great listen. So that is The Wonder of Stevie, the podcast, and find it wherever you get your podcasts. Amazing. Thank you very much, Aisha Harris. This week, Slate published the 25... most important recipes of the past hundred years. Now, with all such things, please understand, it's just 25.
important recipes. I don't think it's important to get into the absoluteness of this kind of list. However, with that said, this is a really, I think, pleasurable... They did a really interesting job, I think, of picking, you know, both things that you might think of as kind of like classic. Toll House cookies and Caesar salad and stuff like that. But they've also, I think, tried to come all the way up to...
very kind of contemporary recipes that people have really gotten into. They talk about the Kenji Lopez-Alt reverse seared steak, which is one of those things that... if you make steak, you will run into as an idea. He helped popularize it. They include Helen Rosner's soup recipe, Roberto, which if you...
are on Instagram and you were to search for like the Roberto hashtag, you would see a whole bunch of people making soup with sausage and beans and greens. And it's because Helen did a really beautiful job at one point of like... posting a recipe that's not exactly a recipe. It's like, this is sort of how you make this. And it's just written in this really friendly, lovely style. And much to my delight, they included Eric Kim's.
cookie recipe from New York Times Cooking, gochujang caramel cookies, which are... They're so good. And I was so delighted to see it on there. So that made me happy this week, reading all about the 25 most important recipes of the past 100 years, which you can find at Slate. And that is what is making me.
Happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter at npr.org slash popculturenewsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Ronald Young Jr., Aisha Harris, thank you so much for being here. Glad to be here. Yo. Welcome. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and Huf Sabathema and edited by Jessica Reedy and Mike Kassif. Hello, Come In provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NHL.
I'm Linda Holmes, and we'll see you all on Friday. Thanksgiving was a national holiday created in the middle of the Civil War. to unify a country that was split in two. Learn about the origins of Thanksgiving and how the unity and division that we see at our Thanksgiving tables was there from the very beginning. Listen to the ThruLine podcast from NPR. It's almost Thanksgiving, and if you're hosting this year, how well do you know how to cook the main event?
A turkey, in the grand scheme of things, not actually that hard. There's just a couple little things you have to keep in mind. Requires a little bit of planning ahead. On a new episode of Life Kit, we talk turkey. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Rachel Martin, host of NPR's Wildcard Podcast. I'm the kind of person who wants to skip the small talk and get right to the things that matter. That's why I invite famous guests like Ted Danson, Jeff Goldblum, and Issa Rae to skip the surface stuff. We talk about what gives their lives meaning, the beliefs that shape their worldview, the moments of joy that keep them going. Follow Wildcard wherever you get your podcasts only from NPR.