Beef

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The first season of Beef was a huge hit for Netflix and won a bunch of Emmies. It starred Ali Wong and Steven Yun and followed a road rage incident with devastating consequences. Now it's back for season two, and this This time there's an all-new cast and an all-new beef, and it involves two couples, Oscar Isaac and Carrie Mulligan face off against Charles Mountain and Kaylee Spaney.

Just like in the first season, their feud reveals way bigger underlying issues for each of the parties involved. To put it mildly, everyone's a mess, and it's a surreal journey to behold. I'm Aisha Harris and today we're talking about beef on Pop Witcher Happy Hour from NPR. Joining me today is one of the hosts of NPR's Code Switch podcast, Gene Denby. Welcome back, Gene. In my personal experience, the colors don't affect the quench.

No, they don't. Great to have you here. Also with us is Walter Chow. He is a writer, critic, and film instructor at the University of Colorado. Welcome back to you too, Walter. Thank you so much for having me. It's so great to have you both here. So much to talk about because so much happens this season. It's which feels like in like compared to last season it's like

Whoa. But yeah, Beef Season 2 stars Oscar Isaac and Carrie Mulligan as a married couple, Josh and Lindsay. He's the general manager of a Montecito Country Club and she's an interior designer. Now, their relationship is hanging by a thread, and one evening they have this nasty drag out fight at home that teeters on the edge of turning violent.

Their spat is accidentally witnessed by Austin and Ashley, an engaged couple who are low-level staffers at the club. They're played by Charles Melton and Kayleigh Spain. Austin and Ashley capture the worst of the argument on video, and they have the intention of bringing it to the police at first. But then they see an opportunity to leverage the video for better pay and health benefits. And that's when the beef starts cooking and cooking and sizzling and all that juicy stuff.

Beef was created by Lee Sungjin and is streaming on Netflix. And Jean, I'm gonna start with you. You know, how are we feeling about the beef this season? I really dug the season. It's like a very different tenor. Yeah. Right? Like the last season the two main characters literally slam into each other and they like hate each other and it becomes it becomes this animating thing for the rest of the season. And then this season

There's like all these different sort of cross beefs. Like the couples are squaring off against other couples, but they're also squaring off against each other. Sort of it's like all these different sort of like layers and and directionality in their beef. It feels like sillier than last season. Like I feel like I feel like there are moments of like like leaning into like goofiness. Particular particularly Charles Melton. I'll take the red one. That's for my fiance. How about the yellow?

Mm I'd rather not. Well, if I may say this, man, in my personal experience, the colors don't affect the quench. I've never seen this cat before but I was like oh I'll watch anything he's in. Have you not seen May December? I did not see May December. You're the second person that said it to me. Yes. Because you ha okay, anyway, you have to see that movie, you know, Natalie Portman, Todd Haynes. Anyway, but yes, yeah.

Abs I will absolutely check this out. But the beef seems like a little more muted, like even though it's happening in all these different directions. But the stakes are so much higher than last season. Like all the steaks seem like really, really big this season. And it's just like

And at first I thought this was gonna like turn into like a, you know, a square game type of thing where it was like, Oh, this is about like class anxiety and contempt, right? And it actually kinda isn't that, right? It ends up being sort of A bunch of things. I really dug the season. I thought it was exceptionally well cast. There were moments of like laugh out loud humor in this season, but it also just like tonally is

Kinda odd, you know? Like it's like kinda it's doing a lot of different things. Anyway, but I dug it over.

Yeah, yeah, definitely kind of all over the place. But Walter, I want to hear your initial impressions of beef this season. Yeah man, I I'm kind of polarized maybe the opposite way. I totally agree there are laugh out loud moments. There's really totally agree that the cast is great. I do fear that that Mr. Melton perhaps is being typecast at this point. It's sort of like a Dimension.

Pretty boy kind of character. I I hope better for him in the future, but he is good here. Yeah. But he essentially plays the same role that he played in May December. Mm. I've seen him do this before and do uh seeing him do it for eight hours is tough for me a little bit. It kind of reminds me of the uh Asian character on what was that show where she's a survivor of a cult? Oh, um Kimmy Schmidt? Yeah, and she has a boyfriend for a while in that who is also like this really beautiful Asian guy.

Oh that's right. Dim is pretty dim. And and I understand the cross casting of like lift dispel this really dangerous stereotype about Asians being smart. Believe me. As an Asian guy, I know a lot of really stupid Asian people. Let's dispel the stereotype. Let's do that. I get it. Let's cross cast.

At the same time, the show is really skirting on some stuff that's made me kind of uncomfortable. Like if the bad guys are these Koreans who are very organized and very cold and very whatever, it's like I don't know, man. I don't know. You know, the the first season was kind of groundbreaking for Asian Americans to have just a c normal contractor guy.

getting in a roadway beef with a normal woman and they don't know martial arts and they're not mystical, you know, their dad's not a hundred thousand year old snake monster. Do you know what I mean? There's nothing mystical about these Asians. Even during the middle of the last season, I felt like maybe they're running out of steam a little bit and they're starting to escalate to a place where it's like

It's felt started to feel a little desperate. I was glad that it was over after ten. This season in only eight episodes. It felt like to me a continued escalation where there's so much stuff getting thrown out of the wall here. I feel like they really left some really kind of important stuff.

off of it that I wanted to know more about, to the point that I'm not even sure what the beef was exactly. Yeah. Like what is the real what are we mad about at each other? You know, they bring up this idea that Gen Z workers are lazy and uninformed. They make a lot about how, you know, Ashley and she thinks that an insurance deductible means a refund. Ela disse, você sabe, super high, deductible, R$5,000. We can deduct five thousand dollars? What if it costs less? Do they give us a difference?

It's kinda the opposite. And he thinks M I S C w was a typo for mist instead of a shorthand for miscellaneous. It's like the the degree of their ignorance is so out of bounds. But I was left feeling like Yeah, you actually did dishonor to some of the stuff that you did establish in the first season, which was, you know, itself marred with some controversy. It's just like, you know, that lack of sensitivity to those sort of issues.

seems to be explored in full in the second season and I'm not sure on purpose. And I think maybe that's where I am. Interesting. Yeah. I mean you mentioned the Korean sort of Subplotter though. eventually it becomes plot. Like it's becomes a plot. And so that's involving the chairwoman of the country club that they all work at, who's played by Yunya Jung. I think most American audiences will recognize she's the Oscar winner for Meenery.

I think the grandmother in that movie. I think she's actually great in this role. Like she seems like she's having fun with this role. And I was so happy to see Sung Kong Ho playing her much younger husband, Dr. Kim. He's Of course, if you've seen some Bong Jun Home movies like Parasite, the host, Memories of Murder, he's a very recognizable face and he's always great to see. But I agree with you, Walter, that it does feel as though that subplot turned plot.

it just becomes kind of unwieldy because there's just too many other things now. I mean, Jean, you did mention like it felt less like a class situation, but I did feel like it kind of turned into that with that Korean subplot because We learned after a while that like it's not just about this very like sexless, unhappy marriage between Oscar Isaac and Carrie Mulligan. It's also like they are in debt, they're drowning in debt.

They are doing illegal things to try and like make their dreams come true and try to like put a patch over this leaking boat. a little imbezzlement to keep a couple together you know what I mean I know. It kind of is in many ways like a keeping up with the Joneses type of season, right? It felt less fresh than the last season. It felt more like White Lotus to me and

That's not necessarily a compliment. Like have I seen every season of White Lotus so far? Yes. Do I find pleasure in it? The fact that I have, maybe not. And that was kind of where I felt about this season. Yeah. I care a lot less about really rich people being mad at really, really, really rich people. I feel less interested in the travails of Oscar Isaac and Kerry Mulligan.

But they're not even rich though. To me, the more interesting relationship it's not it's still not the most original, but like the Oscar Isaac and Carrie Mullikan characters, they have this proximity to wealth. You could argue it could be just as or like even more kind of

difficult to manage emotionally because you've tasted what it can feel like to be in that world. And just the way that like Josh, the Oscar Isaac character, kind of has to maneuver his job where he's like kind of friends with some of the people who are clients there, but he also resents them because Works for them. Yeah, he works for them and also they're demanding and it's that weird relationship that you often see with like employer, employee or like your job depends on them liking you.

We get to be friends! We had dinner with Bob This is the thing, you think that they're your friends, but they're not your staff. They pay you to be around. Well one of us has gone. Amen. It's a weird dynamic. And I thought that was an interesting thing to see, but I've also seen that before.

Yeah. There's that really interesting scene where Oscar Isaac is essentially told by the chairwoman that his butt is hers now because he's she's discovered, you know, the shady stuff or whatever and makes him bow in front of the webcam, like all the way down. Yeah. In Korea to show respect, you bow, bow down lower, lower, lower. You bow, Josh. To show respect. Yes, I'm... I respect you very much. Yes. แล้ว

Oh man, that's really triggering. I mean that was one of my l my corporal punishments as a kid. But but even as I'm looking at that I'm thinking about, you know, not only have I seen it before to your point, Ayesha, but The idea that the two representations of Asian women in the in the show are as this sort of really cold, icy dragon lady, the the chairwoman, and then this really kind of Altyazı M.K.

Sexy Anjano played by the amazing Jong Su Young, you know, very intelligent but also very flexible. And I I just feel like eunus. Yeah, eunus. Exactly. And and I feel like, you know Why are these the two representations of Asian women? When in the first show you have Allie Wong who is amazing. She's just an ordinary person with ordinary beefs, right?

And but not, you know, Yunus who is the translator for, you know, the most powerful woman in the world according to everybody, right? She she influences political elections, she does all you know, we we hear it, we see it. To the point that I just feel like

Why is this even a thing and you know and the Kerry Mulligan character also is this such a difficult character to like, especially after an event that happens pretty early on for me. There's certain things that people do in shows uh or movies that I It takes a lot for them to come back from it. beyond the pale like, Okay, now I can access this.

Exactly. I just don't know that there's forgiveness for this in my heart, you know? And and so do I need to forgive all the characters? Do I need to like of course not. Of course not. I like ambiguous films, I like anti hears, I like all this stuff, but Yeah. Really the entire character of Austin, I don't entirely understand his motivations. I don't understand why he's doing whatever. I thought he was gonna be the sweet kid who has regrets.

But then he takes full advantage of you know the situation that is in, but then he doesn't and he wants to do the right thing, but then he doesn't he wants to I I guess I don't need characters to be black and white, but I do need characters to not be So like divided, right? So like you know. There's definitely a tonal whiplash going on. Yeah, he he reminds me of Two Faced in the Batman comic.

Right. It's like, you know, I would not have been surprised if he pulled out like a scarred quarter at some point and just started flipping it to decide what he was gonna be for that episode. very much seemed like he was the sort of voice of reason when actually was like sort of cooking up these like you know kakamami schemes. You know, he seemed to be when he had this like obviously like very intense flirtation with Eunice.

He felt really guilty about it. Actually sorta suggested him that he could pretend to be physical therapist. Oh my god. A licensed physical therapist, which he was not. And at first he was like, This is nuts. I I can't pretend. Yeah, exactly. I'm gonna get in trouble, right? And then very quickly he sort of turns which like I can get like he's like oh he's he's like this nice life he can have and then like, you know. But it felt like to your point, like he kept

being the naive voice of reason. And also, you know, he wasn't working when she was like grinded, you know, but like I d I do think his like there are a bunch of his line readings that suggest that he's like more savvy. There's a bunch of stuff that suggests that he's not a a complete rube. You know what I'm saying? No. I think but his character holds a little bit more emotional intelligence than he does like practical. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

To me he he was like the most emotionally intelligent person on this show. And he made some mistakes, but he's also supposed to be, you know, pretty young. And some of that you could chalk up to inexperience or just like not being out in the world in a way. I don't even know that where this fits in the conversation. I just I just thought it was like a funny sort of like, Oh yeah, these kids don't know anything. It's true.

When they let the couple know that they had this video of them and this this horrible sort of scene, they're in the car driving away and she's like 45k, 10 days paid vacation. Health insurance. We're set. We are set for life. For sure. We're living the dream. Yeah. And he's like, I feel like we could have got a little bit more from that. Yeah. From them. I just Wonder Yeah. Maybe we could have gotten something from me, too. You know? I'm just now realizing that we didn't even think about that.

It's too much. Late now. I was like, oh man. I was just like uh I just remember when I got my first job at the New York Times a million years ago and it was basically that and I was like dog you can't tell me nothing, you know what I mean? Like That was a that is was incredibly realistic and just shows how especially younger people are just encouraged to just like take the first thing you get and

I mean, yes, is blackmail not a good look? Sure. But also if you're gonna do it, do it right. Right. And I and I wanted more for them. I don't know that you can show like introspection that easily at that point. And you know, I think the same goes with like this other character, Whoosh. Who's played by a you know a uh big big star Rapper. Yeah, yeah. He's played by a rapper named BM and Woosh is like we come to find out he has like a connection with Cherwoman Park.

Yeah, and and and when you talk about F boys, that's really just what he's there for, to take off his shirt and provide whatever. And I feel like this is very broad. This is very broad and you're sticking these people into these categories and ultimately It's not that interesting. You've got really serious actors. You know, my favorite part of it maybe is the part where uh it involves psychedelics. And you know, Oscar Isaac is phenomenal. And you're gonna grasp at everyone around you.

Going down. It's phenomenal. And and I feel like we've missed something here to either go all the way in Or to back out and make it a different kind of drama. But what they try to do in the middle is sort of like you know, when the Brady Bunch goes on vacation and they find the haunted thing. It feels like this to me, like a late sitcom. where I'm out of ideas. Hey, somebody get on the phone to Phineas. Is he available? Just make a cameo real quick.

Yeah, there's a lot of cameos in this this season. Those are the things the moments I was like most taken out of the sort of the current of the show was when random celebrities popped up. Like at first I was like

Wait, I said my wife was like, Is that Baron Davis? Like why is there a former Golden State Warrior here? I was like, that's so random and it was like and then the scene in which this happens is like a high stakes poker game. And they wanted to sort of signal to us, the audience, that this is these are a bunch of like high rollers, including a bunch of celebrities and like very well known actors.

It's giving like that early scene in Oceans Eleven where it's like Topher Grace and like a bunch of other people. Sunset Boulevards with a card game with all the old silencers, right? Yes, yeah.

This scene would've worked fine without like the wooden line deliveries from you know, from Baron Davis and Michael Phelps and later SUNY Lee. Like why should you know it's like it's like it felt very like, you know, in the sitcoms where somebody would like randomly come in and like woo اشتركوا في القناة When Biggie shows up in Martin. He's like, okay. Exactly, big on Martin. And it's like Ha ha ha ha. They they didn't have Sunny Lee for no reason whatsoever do a backbend. Like you flip over.

At one point he says, I loved you with the Paris Elliptic. Oh man. Right on the nose. Oh my god. It's an honor. You were incredible at the Paris Olympic. Thank you. So Josh says that you'll work with my team to get me right for LA. Well and and also beyond that though, there's this implication that that he's able to this master of treachery, Austin, is able to fool a professional athlete, nod goofily, and this world class professional athlete is saying All right. Yeah, yeah.

I mean you'd be surprised you'd be surprised how someone being as attractive as Charles Melton can how much they can get away with. Like even with a world class athlete. Like, I don't know, you know. I mean, I think that's the silliness, right? I mean For me, where where I liked the show the most and where I wish it had kind of focused more on overall is the relationships and when it was really honing in on the fact that these two couples they start off seemingly to be very different, you know.

Different generations. One is very doe-eyed and like the younger couple is like they don't know anything, you know, like they're like, Oh, we're in love. And it's like, girl, you've known this guy, how long? And then the older couple who's jaded and whatnot. And the fact that they both are trying to convince themselves, like even after Josh and Lindsay, you know, the Carrie Mulligan and Oscar Isaac character have their big, big spat at the beginning

right after they're kind of trying to convince themselves, Oh, this is normal. People fight. That to me is interesting. It's like the delusions that we tell ourselves in relationships and how that might go head to head with both like This couple's needs and wants and this couple's needs and wants. And like how that beef could really sort of like.

cause that tension. You see it here and there. I I think for me the the strongest episode is the one where they're in the hospital, the ER waiting room It also that's when the show starts to get really kind of tiptoe into the surrealist territory where weird things are happening and they don't really explain it.

That was when I could I felt like the Austin and Ashley character were really locked in in terms of like how their relationship was falling apart and how they were both kind of clinging to this idea of what it could be. But then you also have like this example of how Josh, uh the Oscar Isaac character, is able to like

continue that beef that is happening in a way that is absolutely like devastating and awful. More awful maybe than anything that happened in season one. I don't know, it depends on How you feel about it, but like the way he's able to wield his power and his proximity to money to harm them. really devastating and I kinda wanted more of that. Are you seriously toying with my health right now? toying with your health. Right now. Boomer!

And maybe that's why I I got that episode was so I thought so effective to me because there was enough sort of moral ambiguity around both of those characters in a way that is like maybe not true to your point. Gracias por ver el resto de la semana. Yeah. Such a good episode. Yeah, totally. To both your points. You know, I love the ambiguity of that. I love the

fraughtness of it. And and I I also love how smart that episode is. And and the the show occasionally is really smart about identifying exactly what's wrong with us right now and all the things that we're actually worried about. It does have its finger on the pulse sometimes. But it seems like the ultimate moral of this is like

But go along to get along is the ultimate moral of this thing. And I think that maybe misreads the temperature of the room a little bit. I'm just like, I don't I think people are filling the streets right now, not to go along with billionaires. I I think there is a problem now that we're recognizing that we put these people in positions of power who don't deserve it. And yet it seems like the show is kind of

Nihilistic in that sense, where it says, you know, hey, ultimately money will corrupt you. You know, you become what you hate the most, and then you're you're satisfied, you want to keep it. And What is the tail is all the sign? We we know this. Full circle. Yeah. People on the margins are desperate.

Well, it sounds like we all had, you know, varying reactions to the show. The season two is not quite as juicy as season one was, but we enjoyed it. We had a good time. Definitely recommend checking it out. Well look, I was uncomfortable by it, but I couldn't stop watching it. Yeah. So he pulls you in and you kinda want to find out what happened. That brings us to the end of our show. Jean Denby, Walter Chow, thanks so much for being here. This was very fun. Right.

And uh just a reminder, signing up for Pop Clutcher Happy Hour Plus is a perfect way to support our show and public radio and you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor-free. So go find out more at plus.npr.org slash happy hour or visit the link in our show notes.

This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, Hufsafatima, and Mike Katziff and edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy. Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris, and we'll see you all next.