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Agatha All Along is a darkly funny new Marvel show on Disney+. It stars the selfish, sardonic, and hilariously petty witch Agatha Harkness played by the great and good Catherine Hahn. When a mysterious goth teen saves her from a spell she's...
been trapped in, she assembles a coven of witches so they can together undergo a series of trials that will grant them each what they most desire. Thing is, though, the other witches hate Agatha's guts, and there's more to this goth kid than meets the eye. I'm Glenn Weldon, and today... we're talking about the insidious, perfidious Agatha all along on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.
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from a news show. One thing we're wondering lately, is Black Friday a ripoff? Peel back the marketing blitz, and what do you have left? That's coming up on Here and Now anytime, wherever you listen to podcasts. It's almost Thanksgiving, and if you're hosting this year, how well do you know how to cook the main event? A turkey, in the grand scheme of things, not actually that hard. There's just a couple little things you have to keep in mind.
requires a little bit of planning ahead. On a new episode of Life Kit, we talk turkey. Listen wherever you get your podcasts. Joining me today is NPR producer J.C. Howard, and he killed Sparky too. Hey, J.C. Hello, hello. Let's go down the road. Also with us is New York Times food reporter and author of the best-selling cookbook Indian-ish Priya Krishna. She bit a kid once. Hey, Priya. Hi. Excited to go down, down, down the road. Yeah. Let's do it.
Agatha all along spins out of the Marvel series WandaVision, in which Elizabeth Olsen's Wanda Maximoff, aka Scarlet Witch, trapped an entire town in a spell that riffed on classic TV sitcoms. When this new series begins, Agatha is still trapped. in The Scarlet Witch's Hex until two people show up. First, Rio, a fellow witch who has a complicated and very sexy history with Agatha. She's played, because this series gets me, by Aubrey Plaza.
I am not the only one that wants to see you dead. Wants to see you burn. Or hang. Or drown. There are no new options. Also a goth teen whose true identity remains a mystery for the first half of the season. He's played by Heartstopper's Joe Locke. What were you after? The road. What road? You of all people should know.
They help free Agatha from Wanda's spell, but she's left without her powers. To regain them, she's going to have to travel the Witch's Road and otherworldly path through various deadly trials. But she can't do it alone. The only way to travel the witch's road is to gather a coven of witches to walk the road together. Enter, which is played by Sashir Zameda, Ali Ahn.
and Patty freaking Lupone. Also in the mix is Deborah Jo Rupp, back from WandaVision. Each of them will get tested, and some will die along the way. Now, as we tape this, the first seven episodes have aired on Disney+. We haven't seen the final two, but we will be discussing... the episodes we have seen, including the big reveal in episode five and then another one in episode seven. So here is your spoiler warning. All right, kick us off, JC. What do you think? I love.
agatha all along here we go and honestly i've loved it all along since the agatha kind of uh jingle so to speak in wandavision uh-huh been very much into it and i think katherine han makes this show i mean she creates it she's all through it she is I think the exact right mix of camp and cool. She's over the top and also nonchalant. Somehow Agatha takes everything seriously and also nothing seriously at the same time. When I was thinking about this, I was thinking for my...
hocus pocus comrades out there. She's kind of a Winifred Sanderson 2.0. I love that. Good pull. You know, she's sarcastic, self-aware, and... completely unfazed. And I think that's what a comic book character should be. She's, you know, kind of like Deadpool, kind of like Spider-Man from the comics, just like creating a world of her own. And as we may see.
Quite literally. We're in some ways reaching late stage Marvel. There's some Marvel fatigue. And the show kind of walks in some of these mistakes. But overall, I was excited for every episode. I can't wait to see how they wrap it up in the last two. Yeah, it seems to be getting better as it goes along. What do you think, Priya? I was really excited about the show. I didn't love the first few episodes. They felt a little bit formulaic. I just like... wasn't that compelled. And then...
the big reveal in episode five happens. And I feel like that's when the show really starts. And I feel like I started to feel the way I felt watching WandaVision, which is, oh, there's this really cool mystery and I'm watching it unwrap. And every episode is giving you like little tidbit and you want to keep coming back for more. I think the casting is just.
Amazing. I could watch these women forever more. I think this is Joe Locke's second gig ever after Heartstopper. I'm very impressed with the way he's playing his character. Episode 7, I thought was the best of the entire season. Yeah, I agree. You know, I'm just really, really excited for these last episodes. I feel like it's capturing the WandaVision magic, and I just really hope it sticks the landing. Man, I am happy.
Having such a great time with this show. And I was in it from the jump. Then I kind of trailed off because there's a certain thing in the middle that happens. It's kind of like we start to feel like it's hitting.
Familiar narrative, Beach, but then it gets better after the episode five reveal. I was in it from the jump, especially the Agnes of Westview, Mare of Easttown Rift, where Agnes trapped in Wanda's Hex. Instead of it being a sitcom, now it's a kind of... quality procedural, quote unquote quality, because that's how I knew how good the writing was because of how specifically bad the writing of that bit was where it's not like a broad parody, but the writers have a real ear for cliche.
You could predict every line out of every character's mouth because they know what perfunctory first draft dialogue sounds like and they – Nailed it. And, of course, Captain Han is there playing this disaffected detective. Like, she's got a downtrodden. She's got no makeup. And I got a sense these people know TV. They love TV. But they're also impatient with TV. They want TV to be better. They realize it can be better. Everything from that opening bit were the coffee cups.
that the detectives are carrying are clearly empty. That is such a good bit. It's so funny. When the title comes up, based on the Danish series, Wondervist Dyson, that is also a great bit. And then we get the real show, and I was impressed if, again, I had some qualms with the... the perfunctory nature of some of this plotting.
I was impressed because it quickly becomes clear that this show is going to be an ensemble piece. Yes, Katherine Hahn's at the center, but they know that if you're going to build a show around a villain, you've got to keep them a villain. You can't do this thing, which is the instinct in TV now. to say, okay, they're a villain, but here's the trauma that humanizes them. Here's where they come from. And it's like, nobody, nobody.
It is so boring to your point, JC. What you do instead is you do this. You give her characters to bounce off of so she can still be just as funny and vindictive and petty. and still be a villain, still be a fun villain, right? Yeah, I will say that this coven, we have to make all the commotion in the world for Agatha and her coven. It truly is an ensemble, and this ensemble is... Chefs.
Kiss. Oh, my God. From beginning to end. Cheers, Ameida. Joe Locke. Aubrey Plaza. Glenn, as you said in the intro, Patti freaking Lupone. The energy is there. The performance is there. It feels like it was. A fun and also kind of legendary set to work on. Yeah. You know, and kind of to re-invoke Catherine Han. As Glenn, you were talking about the kind of crime drama episode. There's this interrogation scene.
that we see from Agatha's perspective in episode one, and again from, we see it again from the teen's perspective in episode six, I believe. And there is this one line from the interrogation that I cannot stop thinking about because of how... how much fun Katherine Hahn is having when she's delivering it. I love that part, yeah. She asks where the teen was during the murder, and he says he was in bed, and she writes in her notebook. Asleep in bed.
Total loser? Or totally lying? Let's find out. And she got to do that. Twice. And like Sashir Zameda telling Patti LuPone that she's pitchy. Oh my God. Like during the singing of the witches. It's just everything is just so much fun from beginning to end. Love it. I was saying that I really think that.
Patti LuPone in episode seven. That is like some of the best acting of the series that I've seen. I was really blown away. Let's talk about episode seven because I was liking the show and then episode seven hits.
Patti LuPone Showcase, and because I am a middle-aged gay man, of course, I'm in love. I'm glad to hear that you guys are there as well. There was an episode earlier where they have to face their worst fears, and I was like, okay, this is fine. This is Buffy. I've seen it before. But something about the way the show...
its puzzle pieces come together. So that even stuff that's a little bit boring in the beginning, it comes back and it fits. So I knew those vision fragments dialogue were going to come together at some point. That was all laying track for her episode. Yeah.
But it works so well between the editing and the directing and the performance. The way the tarot cards flashed to visual images from past episodes that you might not have noticed if you weren't looking for it and my girl Patty knocking it out of the park. I mean, everything about this episode just clicks. Put Patti LuPone on the Comic-Con circuit.
All right. Just put her on there. She would not have a good time. She would like the adulation, but she would be a little freaked out by the degree of the adulation. So everything about this show is working for me. It's cast. It's queerness. It's jokes, solid jokes. And the fact. Talk to me about this, JC. The fact that it's often its own...
dark magic corner of the Marvel Universe so we don't have to waste time like WandaVision did doing MCO logistics, right? Doing origin stories for the character of Monica Rambeau because she's going to come back in a thing. I mean, I guess, as I say that, I realize this series is introducing the character of Wiccan.
You know, that's the reveal at the end of episode five when we learn that Teen is actually Billy Maximoff, the son of Wanda Maximoff, who was one of the twins that she had in that series and that he disappeared and then he's now back.
inhabiting the body of another kid, and he'll go on probably to go on in other Marvel properties like Young Avengers, for example. Yes. But he doesn't seem shoehorned in. It doesn't seem like it's just doing like Marvel's bidding, right? That's right. And you're touching on one of the... kind of problems that I had with this but you know overall as I said I loved it but one of those problems is that I think Agatha
does continue marvel's biggest mistake which is pointing us to something else yeah pointing us to another show another movie and and again i i don't have a problem that this is a sequel to wandavision right that's fine the things that wandavision did right i think that this also does right. It's a fresh story, mysteries in abundance, a new take.
But I feel like it also has those Easter eggs that only pay off if you watched three other shows. And it plants seeds. As you said, you know, the origin story of Wiccan for a new Young Avengers thing. I think the show is great, but I'm just tired. I watch television to relax, and if your show...
comes with more prereqs than a calculus class. I feel like maybe I need a breath from the Marvel fatigue. I would counter that, JC, and I would say that I hadn't watched a lot of Marvel stuff in a minute before watching this. And to me... this just felt like a standalone fun spooky season watch like I think if you have watched no other Marvel it just feels like fun and campy and silly and seasonally appropriate, which honestly, like, I feel like every time fall rolls around.
I want my Beetlejuice. I want my Hocus Pocus. I hope that this becomes like this era's Hocus Pocus, this era's Beetlejuice. Like I could see myself rewatching this next Halloween season. Oh, that's a great point. I think I will too.
because Halloween is the queerest season and this show is easily the queerest thing Marvel has ever done. And this is another reason, J.C. White, might feel like it's not part of the Marvel machine because you've got between the Agnes and Rio dynamic and Joe Locke's Billy.
and all the Wizard of Oz references and Patti Freakin' Lupone and that one episode's Nancy Meyer's ivory interior design. Yeah. You keep expecting Diane Keaton to just pop out of a doorway in like those evening gloves she wears. all the time, like those crew evening gloves. This is a Halloween-y. This is campy. It is dark. Can we talk about what Catherine Hahn is doing here? Just her physicality. As the Agnes of Westview, mayor of Easttown, like put upon no makeup detective, she kind of –
But then when she's Agatha, she swirls that purple coat of hers. And in the most recent one, episode seven, the road turns her into the wicked witch of the West and she's moving with this kind of grace, this. Her arms – like at one point she sits down at that chair at the tarot table and she puts one arm behind her and one out in front of her. And it's such a master class in, I don't know, languid precision in just finding a character and running with it. Yeah. To me –
If you'll forgive another musical reference, it's giving like Sweeney Todd when he gets his razors and it's like, at last my arm is complete. Like she says that the Wicked Witch of the West was based on her. The fact that she's like coming into herself as a true, just like a wicked witch. Like she is the villain. She's the antihero. She is the moment, if you will. And like on top of that, I.
love the way they're doing the trials, that each trial is sort of its own universe. And I feel like it gives Catherine Han and the rest of the cast. Just like fun space to play. Room to play. That's right. Yeah. Here's my worry. This is how TV works. Agatha is going to get an arc. And she'll learn lessons and she'll show that she truly loves Billy by sacrificing something, either her powers or her life. I don't want any of that to happen because that would be this show reverting to the mean.
Right. And the creators have said it's not going to be a redemption story. And I hope they're telling the truth because right now this is my favorite Marvel TV show ever. And I think it's going to go down in history if it sticks the landing as. To Marvel TV what Andor is to Star Wars TV, which is not just Marvel good.
But good, good. Yeah. So what do you predict? What's going to happen to our Agatha? I guess I am afraid that it's going to go the way of WandaVision. Yeah. And I just, that finale was so disappointing to me after such a clever show. That's true. I needed to end. with her Evil laugh cut to black. I think that's what I need to be satisfied. Okay, so what I think will happen is the same thing that, as you have both mentioned, happened in WandaVision and in Loki.
But in this particular case, just the complication of everything. I feel like Loki season two fell off for me because it was so complex. And instead of it being as this was, kind of a simple story, Wizard of Oz down the road. Like, you know, that's what this started out as. And I think it's probably going to get more complex. I am very curious if the reason Rio is here is to claim Billy's soul. Because the reveal in Episode 7 is that Rio is the personification of death in the Marvel Universe.
That's kind of a big deal. There is a fan theory out there that this is all Billy's magic, right? That this is not the actual witch's road. It's the idea of the witch's road that was created in Billy's subconscious that he's making real because he's got this untapped power. And that Agatha knows that.
But Billy does not, which is why there's plenty of support for this in the show. Because, you know, Agatha keeps hanging back and saying, oh, yeah, do what you need to do. And so she's giving little hints throughout. That seems to be building toward that. What do you guys think of that theory? I love it.
And also hate it. I only hate it in that it's kind of retrotting the road of WandaVision. I love it because, like, it's a good misdirect. I guess it matters how they do it. It's all about the execution. I agree. but I'm like, I'm ready for another big reveal. Like I love the way they're unspooling the mystery on this show. I have a quick question for y'all. And there is no wrong answer. Which arrangement?
A Ballad of the Witch's Road is your favorite. I'm a middle-aged gay man, as I say, and there's the one that we are introduced to it with is the close harmony musical theater power ballad in a minor key. And Patti LuPone's one of them singing it. So, yeah. That's me. Down, down, down the road. Down the witch's road. I am also a power ballad gal. And I would say that from that.
episode and that rendition I was like on the subway singing like down down yeah I will say I'm partial to the gritty crime drama version that we got in the first episode. That one from Agnes of Westview, that bluesy one, substitutes the word winding for witchy. So down to the winding road. And that's very Tom Waits, The Wire. That's the vibe it's giving. Yes, it felt very much like The Wire. I will say also the kind of 70s... Fleetwood Mac from episode four. It's a very close second.
Well, we love it. But we want to know what you think about Agatha all along. Find us at Facebook.com slash PCHH. Let's just hope it sticks to the landing. That brings us to the end of our show. Priya Krishna, Jason Howard, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me in your coven. Always a pleasure to be in your coven.
Cub and Glenn. There we go. And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show on public radio and you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.com.
Or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Hafsa Fatima and Liz Metzger and edited by Mike Katzif. Our supervising producer is Jessica Reedy. And Hello Come In provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. Glenn Weldon, and we'll see you all tomorrow. Take a moment to unwind and give thanks this week with NPR's All Songs Considered.
as listeners share their favorite songs of gratitude. This song speaks to me, and the basic thing is, everybody turns, turns, and lands in the place that they need to be. Download new episodes of All Songs Considered every Tuesday wherever you get podcasts. Thanksgiving was a national holiday created in the middle of the Civil War to unify a country that was split in two.
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