ABC Listen. Podcasts, radio, news, music and more. Housing in Australia is broken. Sold, sir. Congratulations. Now more than ever, buying a home is out of reach. The biggest challenge is renting while trying to save for a deposit. But for investors, business is boom. We've massaged that portfolio now. At one point it was over 40. So why is the supply and demand for homes so out of whack?
Join me, Sam Hawley, to find out how Aussies became housing hostages. Find ABC News Daily's five-part series on the ABC Listen app. It was the Oval Office meltdown that has shocked the world. Donald Trump spitting the dummy during his meeting with the Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelensky, kicking the Ukrainian leader out of the White House.
And as world leaders stepped up to support the Ukrainian Prime Minister, the language from our own Prime Minister strengthened. But as Anthony Albanese tries to walk what is a political tightrope with the US, is our alliance... really safe. Are the US a reliable partner? Welcome to Politics Now. Hi, I'm PK. And I'm Jacob Greber. And Jacob, while the Prime Minister was hoping to spend the weekend focused on his, what, cheaper beer, only marginally cheaper, but cheaper beer announcement.
An increase in urgent care clinic announcements, which of course is very good retail politics for anyone who can't get a meeting with a doctor. That was really quickly overshadowed by these spectacular scenes that we saw in the Oval Office between the US President and Volodymyr Zelensky. I mean, everyone knows those scenes. Literally, I don't think anything's been more watched this weekend.
As is the way with this entire political campaign as we head towards an election, PK. It's the stuff offshore that is just... It's just splashing over the top. No one's able to control it here in terms of the political narrative. These events are happening. And this thing, as you say, was gobsmacking. I went back and had another look at the whole thing because I'd only...
The whole 40 minutes, right? The whole 40 minutes. I'd only seen sort of snippets, the kind of most extreme bits. It's really worth watching because you can see the way the tension builds and both men, you can see. the irritation on their face and then it just explodes into the open. And it's, I mean, I think there's all sorts of people who've been in these sorts of meetings for real, private ones between leaders, saying that they've never seen anything like this.
So it's wild stuff. You had J.D. Vance, the vice president, weighing in. The antagonist, right? Essentially the one who seemed to really fire Trump up. Trump was sort of okay up until that point. And then he really blew up and accused Zelensky of being disrespectful. arguing about how he was gambling with World War III, and then over and over again saying, you do not have the cards, as if it's a game of poker.
And Zelensky does not have the leverage, because that's how Trump always thinks about these things in terms of leverage and who's got the deal. So, Pico, I don't know what you made of it. It sort of, it doesn't look like those people can do a deal. Well, obviously they are the most extraordinary scenes that anyone has seen in the Oval Office. That is fact.
Fact checked, there's no doubt about it. But I think if we just bring it back to our own debate, that point you made, Jacob, like we are literally about to have an election called potentially, a bit of debate about that, but maybe even this weekend. And every time the Prime Minister has tried to recapture the public imagination and talk about domestic issues, cost of living issues, if you're talking about urgent care clinics, Jacob, you're talking about cost of living, right?
because it's about making people's healthcare costs cheaper. This is what the message is consistently. That's what they're trying to do. They get dragged back into the world sphere. My view is they have to suck it up, right? Like that is the reality we're in. We are in an international crisis point. There's no doubt about it.
It is a problem for us because the US is our closest ally. It is an ally we are spending billions of dollars to be in alliance with. We are relying on them for our security in a way that is... unprecedented. And so it deserves in many ways to be considered because we're seeing our biggest ally line up at the UN or in rhetoric or in action. With Russia, I mean, that has huge implications for us. Now, the Prime Minister, of course, has been asked.
He said it's an issue of doing what is right. He's also said that it's in Australia's national interest to stand up for Ukraine. I don't know what you made of it. Jacob, but I did think the PM strengthened his language and was less kind of technocrat or something this weekend when he talked about Ukraine. He referred to Russia as a bully. Still wouldn't be drawn into...
giving a commentary on Trump per se, or the way he behaved in the Oval Office. But he was stronger on Ukraine, wasn't he? I'd agree with you, PK, on that. He's definitely sounding stronger. about the importance of Ukraine, the importance of Europe working together, the fact that Australia has contributed to this war effort with real money and, of course, material. And he's making the point. without directly criticising Trump. He's kind of doing it.
in a sort of de facto around the garden pathway by saying Australia stands with Ukraine and the brave sort of, you know, the extraordinary presidency of Zelensky is the sort of... wording he uses. Now, I think all of that masks what is deep, deep concern within all sides of politics about how this is traveling. As you said, Russia seems to be getting everything it needs from Donald Trump. The Defence Secretary Pete Hegseth, a Fox News host. Weekend.
Fox News, mate. Now head of the world's most lethal military has announced a short time ago that the US would no longer be conducting cyber operations, offensive cyber operations against... Russia. So these are extraordinary developments. We sort of sit here, I guess, in geopolitical terms, well out of them. Yeah, we're a little fish, but an important fish. But it's nonetheless a really important test for both men, Albanese.
and Peter Dutton as to how they're going to deal with this. And Peter Dutton was also making some comments earlier about it being disappointing, the scenes. Again, he's not saying it was Donald Trump's fault that this unfolded. in this way or even that it was Zelensky's fault or J.D. Vance's fault. He's just saying it's disappointing and that he would sort of be pushing Trump to accept what I think is the more conventional European-Australian.
position on Ukraine. I think he said that he didn't agree at all with what the US position is now on this war. And that he would perhaps even lobby Trump if he was in that position, right? Which, of course, everyone is doing. Yeah, OK, sure. But can this... this be a reliable partner to us. Malcolm Turnbull has raised this in an interview with me. This is not the same United States, this idea that it's just an aberration. Donald Trump's been elected twice. The most...
I think combative person in that office was J.D. Vance, who is potentially the next president if Donald Trump doesn't try and change the Constitution and get a third term, but let's park that. I mean, this is not some aberration. This is the new America we're dealing with. And so what does that mean for us in our region? There is this coalition of the willing being assembled in Europe, which is, of course...
extraordinary in and of itself. Europe is in crisis. They are trying to rise to that challenge, it seems. Clearly, Trump playing his hand as he has has meant that Europe has had to take this more seriously. But in our own region, we are putting all of our eggs in the AUKUS basket. David Spears on Sunday interviewing James.
James Patterson, who's, you know, one of the key members of the coalition frontbench, shadow home affairs minister. He, you know, really interesting line from Patterson that you... They stood for Ukraine, as you say, and Peter Dutton's been clear about that. But you double down on intelligence sharing with the US. You double down on all of it. Is there any incoherence with selling all of that to the public?
You know, we're staunchly with America. They're with us. They'll run to our defence. But here, when they're being challenged in the real theatre, where it currently exists, they're not doing it. It's changing, Jacob. It's changing incredibly quickly. And that's why I brought up that point about the Defence Department. That is a cyber, offensive cyber program. Now, I don't know the ins and outs of how those things work.
We're a Five Eyes member. So we're a member of this club of nations, like-minded nations, that shares this kind of information between them. Is anyone asking questions about how that unfolds? If one of them goes, I hate to say it, but it sounds like they're going a little bit rogue here on the Russian stuff, that being the United States under Trump. So how do we...
manage that risk, how are we playing in that game? We're not bystanders here. We're very active members of a community of countries that work together. Trump's argument in response to all of that, PK, will be. You all need to spend more money on your own defence. You need to increase your budgets from one and a half percent of GDP to some big number. And that's probably what will happen now in Europe. And I dare say this country here in Australia.
We're certainly not having that debate at the moment. But the coalition's trying to put it on the agenda, right? Trying to put it on the agenda. And as we saw with the... this Chinese task force that's doing a slow circumnavigation of Australia. Hi, guys. The flotilla, you know, are our... levels of defence and security where they need to be in this very, very dramatic, changing world. I don't know, Pico. And to me, to get back to the election, this is the debate that is sort of...
You can tell neither side, but perhaps the government more so doesn't really want to have this debate. You've nailed it. So are we about to have a sort of pseudo-car key election by accident? Well, when you speak to the pollsters and cause some... Damaris goes on about this, especially after their latest polling. He says, it's cost of living, cost of living, cost of living now. I know people have heard that a zillion times, but the point of that is...
The need from the voters for politicians to be engaging on the economy primarily is overwhelming, right? That's what they want. And so... I don't think the public wants a khaki election. The coalition... would prefer to have a car key election because they think on national security, it's their strong suit. So while there are a few challenging issues in terms of the US alliance and how to answer some of those questions, which is even challenging for someone like Peter Dutton.
Ultimately, they think it's their ground and they're willing to have it because they've already said they want to go further than Labor in terms of defence spending. They think it's friendly ground for them. Do you think, PK, though, that one of the problems here with it... It's very risky, and I think maybe one of the reasons voters don't want to have this issue be sort of front and centre is because, frankly, it's really, really expensive.
Everything about geopolitical instability and a close ally like the United States doing things we don't like means we have to spend so much more. And there's only one way that goes, and that's much, much higher taxes. It's less money for all the other things that Australians are really, really used to, from education, aged care, you name it. All those things become very, very difficult.
And that's what the budget experts tell us and the geopolitical people, the people who watch all of this very closely have been telling us for a long time, the clock's kind of running out on this. But the bottom line is it's still going to be a lot more expensive. Peter Dutton will have to explain to Australians why there'll be less money for other things in their lives if the world goes in this direction that it seems to be heading for. No, Jacob.
Before I let you go, I know I always say it's banal and I'm taking you to the banality of it, but I'm going to make it spicy. Election timing. Now, all of the good money is on this weekend. Sunday or Monday even is what my mail is. But there's a little disruptor, and I don't think it's necessarily a small thing. It all depends, of course, how it works out. But that cyclone that looks like it's going to hit the coast and the potential devastation of that cyclone, this is a huge...
event, can you really call an election? It's a bit of a disruptor, isn't it? It may well be. And I was talking to people in the government. just this morning about this very issue. It's front of mind for them. They're watching the bomb as much as anyone else. They're watching the bomb. They're watching the bomb. This thing is forecast or...
The models suggest it's going to hit anywhere, I think, from Bundaberg down to the New South Wales border. So it's a very, very highly populated part of the country. Election campaigning in the middle of, say, some terrible cleanup or... you know, with a lot of disruption may not be.
possible, like even from logistics, let alone be a good look. So we'll see there. That's very much throwing a bit of a sort of curveball into the mix. I still think this weekend they'll kick it off. Well, it depends on the extent of the damage, as you say.
It does. And I think there's a counter narrative and there's a bit, you sort of never know whether it's spin or they're trying to, you know, distract you from, from the main game. But there is also a sort of sense creeping in that he hasn't made up his mind yet. even at this stage, on whether he goes this weekend or waits until May, which would then mean we have a budget. And one of the arguments is the government feels that the longer...
this thing drags out, the more people are looking at Peter Dutton. The government's saying there are some little signs in some of the pollings that they've taken that show people are starting to...
You know, when they look at Dutton a little more carefully, they start to have questions. And so the government's sort of saying, look, the longer we can do that, the better it'll be. And they can kind of dig themselves out of what is frankly a pretty deep hole in the polls for them at the moment. So that's a one argument. My guess is still April 12th. Oh, and one thing, PK, as you know, what happens with the budget two days later? The opposition leader gets a broadcast budget reply speech.
where he has a platform of his own to say what he wants to the nation. Why would the government give him that? I just don't think they want to deliver a budget. They never have wanted to. Never been of the plan. Although, if everything goes...
wild literally this weekend. They might have to. It might just be too much of a bad look. Of course, Easter interrupting is a big issue and then you just get forced to having to deliver a budget, right? So that is ultimately, you know, in their hands, I suppose, or in nature's hands. perhaps. And just one last thought. Can't help yourself. WA elections on Saturday. PM might be there, in which case, does he have to rush back Sunday morning overnight, do the red eye to get back to the...
to the Governor-General's all night. Is that why one minister, someone said to me, Monday, why are you so obsessed with Sunday car, Dallas? Yeah, I think you've got the hint there. You've got the hint, the giveaway hint. That's politics. Now, we'll be back in your feed tomorrow.
bringing you the latest breaking news and analysis. And as always, if you have any questions, please send them to thepartyroomatabc.net.au. Frank Kelly and I will look at that on Thursday for that edition. See you, Jacob. See you, PK.