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and if there's a better way forward. Find ABC News Daily's five-part series on the ABC Listen app. The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, flags he'll consider boots on the ground. For Ukraine, right as the Trump administration hits pause on military aid going in, it's a stunning development for the US aimed at putting pressure on the Ukrainian president. But what does it mean for the global world order? Welcome to Politics Now. Hi, I'm PK. And I'm Claudia Long.
So it's a stunning development. US President Donald Trump has now reportedly directed a pause to US assistance to Ukraine. That's just an extraordinary escalation really and devastating for Ukraine, which relies on military assistance, of course, overwhelmingly from the United States. This comes in the wake of that incredible... like Oval Office scene that everyone has heard about. Jacob Graeber and I discussed that in Monday's podcast, if you haven't listened.
But this is a huge development and it comes just as our Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, suggested he would give consideration, Claudia, to any request for Australian troops to be sent to Ukraine. That's right, PK, and it's quite remarkable because it wasn't too long ago that he really seemed to be shutting the door on that. Now that door's been opened again. So according to White House officials, the US president is pausing aid to ensure, this is a quote from them, ensure that it is...
contributing to a solution as they pursue a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine. But look, just as you said, PK, the comments from our own leader at a press conference on Tuesday morning are fascinating in the wake of this development. Yeah, let's go through what he's actually saying. Is it just an opening of the door? Is there real serious consideration being given by the government into what we might be able to do? It seems like...
both of those things simultaneously to me because you've got, you know, they were ruling this out not too long ago and that now seems to have changed even just as recently as this morning. You've also got the factor, of course, of the United Kingdom and France.
looking at putting together some kind of coalition in this regard as well. So there's a lot of moving parts at the moment and I think the federal government seems to be spinning a lot of plates around this issue and looking at where we could fit in. We do, of course, already offer support to Ukraine.
but not in the form of troops and, you know, as we call them, boots on the ground. But I think certainly, you know, this door is open and it's not going to be shut anytime soon. Yeah, so the Prime Minister's language, as I discussed yesterday with Jacob, has been strengthening, I think. to be really accurate. We've always been in solidarity with Ukraine. That has never wavered. It's just about the emphasis.
And his own personal kind of leaning in and talking about it, I think it's amped up in the last couple of days and not surprising. There is a coalition of the willing being established in Europe. America is changing fast. I mean, this latest development, it's seriously high stakes.
Without military support like this, and we'll hear experts in coming hours talk about this, I mean, we're talking about a situation where really Ukraine's ability to take on Russia... is incredibly limited, is Europe able to fill in the gaps? Clearly, Europe is very limited without the American guarantee. That's become clear. Keir Starmer, the UK Prime Minister, has made that clear. But this is a bolder move from the Prime Minister, I think, as he walks that diplomatic tightrope on the issue.
Now, Peter Dutton didn't offer the same when asked. He pointed to Australian training and support for soldiers. Interesting distinction. Yeah, and I think it's also curious with Peter Dutton, right, because he's got this real image as a strong man who would, you know, see Australia's place in the world as one of, you know, fighting for justice, I think, and it's interesting.
to see this contrast between him and Anthony Albanese and it sort of feels a little bit like a soft switching of those sorts of roles at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if, like you say, we're recording this on a Tuesday, if by this afternoon we've seen him weigh in a little bit more, possibly tomorrow. And it also, of course, the accelerant here is that the US is our most powerful ally and they have now totally upended this whole...
situation really. And so if we get involved, we also risk increasing tensions with them. And this is happening at a time when our trade minister and the prime minister are really trying to stop America imposing tariffs on our... imports to them. Things are tense already. There is, you know, those are the kind of non-conflict sides of this. So this could have a flow on effect on all sorts of policies, PK, which I think is going to be very interesting to watch.
Yeah, and the contrast is fascinating, but we are talking about this plan is in its infancy. Europe is scrambling here, right? And I think the UK Prime Minister... is so far really rising to the occasion. It's quite the making of Sir Keir Starmer as he tries to... to galvanise Europe at this time where, and just to give it a bit of context, I do think it's really important that we remember why this is so important, that this is about pushing back.
and actually sending a signal to Russia that they cannot just go about taking over other land. in Europe like this and that they can't be rewarded for it, right? That it sends a signal across Europe and that it's seen as quite a pivotal moment for Europe. Now, we are... lockstep in that alliance. That whole architecture is an architecture that we have invested in heavily, we believe in, we might not be on the continent, but this is part of our own.
system, the rules-based order we rely on. So if we don't invest, there will be questions about our commitment, right? Because we have been very strong in our commitment to Ukraine.
Yeah, that's right. And I think too, you know, you said like, yes, it is far away, but we are absolutely a part of this, particularly given how connected the world is now. And like you say, the rules-based order is something we talk about a lot and we talk about it a lot in our own region around the Pacific, but also...
around the world. And I think it's interesting, as you say, too, we're obviously very close to the UK because we not only have an alliance with them, we're also part of AUKUS, Australia, UK, US. another thing that is kind of going into the mix here that is making this even more complicated which is we now have one I guess part of that grouping that is fairly unpredictable, pretty unstable I think is pretty fair to say.
And now we're seeing that play out in a defence sort of way and also, like you say, with this other major power involved in Russia and showing Russia that they can't just invade other lands and take them and not face any consequences. What's really interesting in the briefing here is that the President of the United States is saying that this ban or pause on military aid would last...
until basically Ukraine's leaders had demonstrated a good faith commitment to peace. I can't just let that sit there hanging until Ukraine's leaders had... Committed to peace. Yes. Wow. I mean, all the pressure seems to be coming one way. This is our biggest ally, Claudia. I mean, this is just such a train wreck.
All of the pressure on the country that's been invaded, the democratic ally to the free world, including the United States, all of the pressure on Ukraine. And it seems that really what the president is pushing for here. is regime change. He wants Zelensky gone. It's quite obvious. This is about putting pressure on Zelensky, which is a big issue for Zelensky now in terms of what his next move is.
But, you know, we know that that's Russian play. So here we are. I've said this before. We're about to have an election. But this huge crisis... to the democratic order is unfolding and it's in real time. It is a train. It's a train crash. It really is. And the prime minister seems to be through his commentary on a Tuesday morning.
Leaning in, at least saying, yep, we're actively going to look at that. The opposition, really interesting saying no to the troops, still being very pro-Ukraine, to be fair, but I just think that little... Perhaps break between them will be interesting to watch. This is just breaking, so there will be more to unfold, Claudia, but I just think it is genuinely kind of really heartbreaking for Ukrainians, but also... On a geopolitical level, this is big stuff. This is a huge change to...
the world order and we'll be keeping a watching brief, particularly to talk about Australia's role in all of this. Look, I want to completely and utterly pivot. in the most outrageously blatant, like not even creating any vague segue way, not even pretending. Let's do a handbrake turn. Screech. Yes, I am screeching. Yeah. And really, with my Toyota Corolla, you should see the damage I do. I'm sure you've seen it, Claudia. Anyway, so what we've got here. Really?
interesting policy announcement from the opposition leader. He has announced that Claudia wants the public servants to get back to work in the office, not at home, right? Yep. So... Peter Dutton wanting to see all of the public servants, if he wins government, his public servants, Australia's public servants, back in the office full time. He says that too many of them have been working from home for too long and he says that this will increase productivity.
activity, as well as, you know, I guess getting everybody back in the office. Look, I don't think it's going to go down too well, PK, with the actual people who'll be on the receiving end of this policy. There's a few reasons for that, mainly because a lot of people, and this is, you know.
it comes out in various studies, including ones from the Women's Gender Equality Agency. A lot of people like having flexibility. It's one of the reasons they might choose to work for a particular company. It's something they value and they're probably not going to like being forced.
come back into the office now Peter Dutton says this isn't getting rid of work flexibility arrangements this is just to make people come back into the office so there's a few types of flexible work right you've got like your job sharing arrangements you've got particular hours that you might be able to you know work
around, that sort of thing. But I think, look, it's an interesting choice, PK, to bring it up right now. So yeah, timing is everything, but let's go to the substance of the policy. What's it all about? Why would they announce this? Well, I'll tell you why. Generally, talking about public servants and inefficiency is good electoral politics across the country. Terrible in Canberra, where it affects people's jobs. Mostly, not exclusively, but mostly.
But great if you are sending that message. I'm talking about, you know, the perception voters have that these people with these fancy jobs in Canberra have this nice life, working from home in their kind of nice homes. everything's very nice and you know what some of the critique is is you know fair enough like i understand that there is some sort of class resentment sometimes around these things
But if you can paint them as essentially taking, if I can be blunt because I can on this podcast, taking the piss a little and we're bringing them back into the office so they're not taking the piss. That's really the message here. That can be popular, right? Unless Labor, which they're trying to do, and Katie Gallaher was out trying to sell this, they can paint Peter Dutton. as the anti-woman dude who doesn't want to help people who need flexible work for children and work-family balance.
and that this goes to a bigger trope about them being kind of anti-women, anti-family. Now, that's a hard thing to land because, well, I think we're in a particular point of the political kind of mood where I don't think that possible. Politics is going off at the moment, I'll be honest. Also, Jane Hume, who's the shadow finance person, is taking carriage of this. So it's not like Peter Dutton. I mean, clearly it's his policy, don't get me wrong.
So I don't know if they'll be able to land it, but that's the contest now, right? Yeah, and I think you're right. I think they're not doubtful about whether they're going to be able to stick the landing on this one for the reasons you mentioned, particularly...
for the fact that they've got a woman out spruiking this policy and saying why, that they think it's important. And look, Peg, I'm glad you said taking the piss because I was thinking, I was like, I don't know if I'm allowed to say this. Well, I don't know if I am either. That's the implication, right? You're so right. It's about like...
Oh, are people just sitting at home on their butts basically, not doing very much and getting paid a great deal? And like you say, currently there's probably a lot of people who aren't going to be particularly sympathetic. to a bunch of public servants getting to have good conditions, particularly when you consider like Australia's biggest employing industries are ones where you can't work from home. So for example, nursing can't exactly do that from home because you need to see people.
That's where the working class grief comes. That's where the politics is, Claudia. You nailed it. But it's true, right? There are so many jobs where you don't get that flexibility. It's impossible to build in, right? So... Yeah, that's what they're pitching. Yeah, and I think there's probably going to be people who would hear this and be a bit like, are you serious?
Working from home or not is not really my biggest issue. My biggest issue is can I pay for my car? Can I, you know, pay for food? You know, because online, for example, and obviously you can't always, you know, the comments on various stories on Instagram and TikTok. and stuff. They're not a scientific poll. But I think we've seen a lot from the opposition lately about this idea of cutting the bloat in the public service, right? Anthony Albanese's government has increased the public service.
Peter Dutton says he wants to cut probably around 36,000 positions from it, I believe. And to be honest, I haven't seen a lot of people online who are especially sympathetic or bothered by that either way, because for them, it's just not... the key issue. And this is the thing, right? When you're struggling to pay your bills, of course it's not the key issue, but it does tap into, I think, like you said, the fact that people are struggling, they might resent.
or feel frustrated that these people in Canberra aren't actually addressing their concerns. And maybe even, you know... Even if that's not a top tier issue or a conscious thing, it's certainly something that I think that's in the back of a lot of people's minds because understandably, you know, a lot of people are struggling. And the tricky thing about this too is that on the flip side, the public service is a big employer in Australia.
A lot of people work in the public service. It also delivers a lot of, in fact, really essential things and services and policies. The public service is the thing that gives us... you know, makes Medicare work. For example, if you are a nurse or you're working one of these jobs where you can't work from home. And so I think for a lot of voters too, they will probably be very cognisant of that. I think it's a really interesting mix.
I can see the politics and I can see Labor's play with the women's stuff. Good line, actually, to say, hey, that's why we've built some of these policies because they are there for those reasons. We do want workers to be able to have... all of their lives, but can everyone do that? That's the big question, Claudia, and that's what this goes to.
One thing that I thought was really interesting this week, PK, is seeing the government, particularly around some of this stuff around gender, mentioning Scott Morrison. Because the tactic there is clearly, remember him? This guy, Peter Dutton, used to work with him. And remember all those issues that...
you thought about in the last election. I think it's also really telling, even casting our minds back to the last election too, that gender was a big issue, but particularly in those teal seats that we've seen flip from liberal. to teal. And what is one of the things that they've got in common, PK? This doesn't tell the whole story, of course, but partially wealth. People have time to think about these things when you live a comfortable lifestyle. And so I think...
this will also be really interesting in those teal seats because a number of, you know, Liberal candidates are trying to win those back. Really good point. Oh, I've really enjoyed this episode, although the world seems...
Like a very difficult place right now. I mean, that breaking news we brought to you, just wow. Watch that space. We'll bring you more. Thanks so much for joining us on Politics Now, Claudia. Thanks for having me, PK. I'll be back in your feed tomorrow speaking with David Spears.
about the latest developments. And I suspect there'll be more of particularly that big international story. And as always, Frank Kelly and I will be answering your questions on the party room on Thursday. So please send them in. thepartyroomatabc.net.au and you can find that email in the show notes. See you, Claudia. See you, Vicky.