Thank you for listening to Depictions Media Radio.
Welcome to Policy and Rights, the.
Show about welcoming policy and human rights. All right, welcome back to Policy and right here in Depictions of Media Radio, I'm your host, Michael Clogs. Today we're gonna totally focus on British Columbia and we're actually going to have a friend of mine come on the show. And she is a teacher in this Surrey school district. And let me say this much. One of the reasons why she is my friend is not simply because I like her as
a person, but I like what she does for the community. Also, she puts herself out there in in ways as a teacher and what she teaches in her classroom that is waking up minds. Some things that have have have happened in in uh, there have been some recent events that may be a little stirping for a teacher to see happen to them, But it would seem that the community
is standing behind her. Because again, when someone is going to open up my child's mind, I want I want, I want to, I want to to warmly invite that person to do so, and especially if they're doing so in very positive ways. It isn't just that she gets them to understand a corporate agenda. She gets them to analyze a corporate agenda and decide for themselves if that
agenda is what they believe in. Now, it's kind of interesting that we're bringing about the idea of corporate agenda because there has been a corporate agenda, a government agenda that has been introduced into the school system, and it's not necessarily bad, it's not necessarily good. Myself personally, I sit on a fence with it, and should personal identity be taught in school? And what that's what it all amounts to with what they are calling SOG. It isn't
about LGBTQ rights. It isn't trying to groom children into becoming something that they may or may not be. It is about teaching children in the classroom what their personal identity should be. Not necessarily a bad thing, but depending on how it is represented, could be harmful because you could actually push a child off in the wrong direction.
But more than that, what we need to be able to do is the government has on one agenda with this, and I'm sure the corporations have an agenda with it, because it doesn't evolve them being able to sell more and more medications or whatever to these children, so that so that, of course they make more money. But and whenever the corporations make more money, of course the governments are always all for that, because hey, that's how government
in our negative woods works. And they get funding from the corporations to run their campaigns and in turn they put things in place that help the corporations make or money. But it's Soji is more than that. Sogi isn't about grooming children to be something they're not. Soji is the antigi Sogi movement is isn't just about stopping the or curving the the the agenda that that may be in place.
It's way more than that. Okay, If Soji was simply just about teaching kids to think clearly about who they are and who they want to be, we might not be seeing the level of protesting that that there is. And allowing a childhood is at a certain level to explore the ideas of what it could be like to be a cat, a dog, a monkey, or whatever opens the imagination, and personally I warmly invite that anything that opens up an imagination and allows a mind to think
freely is a good thing. But here's here's what it has actually gone wrong. It isn't so g itself. It is the politicization and the polarization that has occurred over this particular school policy. That's where we were running into problems. That's where the protests are coming out because it is
completely politicized. It is politicized to the point that we have and you're going to hear this and in today's show, and I think it's disturbing when we hear a m l A candidates say that books should be banned in the schools. Remember he is a member of the legislative party that would form the laws for British Columbia. Do we want someone like that in office? When we start
banning books, we start burning knowledge. Books were freely written so that the knowledge could be shared, It showed, it could be discussed, so that ideas could be moved forward. So we have that end of things that they talk about planning themselves in front of the school, disrupting classes so that they can get their point across that and
they call it saving the children. On the other hand, that while we're in a currently in a period of election in British Columbia, that this whole agenda is is not being talked about in healthy ways that they're pushing forward other agendas that are they seemingly more important while they're put kind of pushing this one aside in the political debates. One it is an extremely hot hot potato, shall we say, is like, if you have children, you will do anything, and I do mean absolutely anything to
protect your children. Okay, So the whole topic is being politicized. The whole topic of LGBTQ rights is being politicized, and it doesn't have to be politicized the way it's being talked about. It's being talked about with agendas instead of focusing on the one simple thing. Let's stop the bullying and allow people to be who they want to be. Let's end the corporate agendas that would shame people for being different, and let's celebrate the diversity that we have
within our communities. Let's stop trying to do things like ban books and limit knowledge and open knowledge so that it is freely given to our children in a warm and welcoming environment, so that our children know that they
can think for themselves. Okay, so why don't we push forward and we're going to listen to my friend as I interview her talking about her views and why she wants to push SOG forward in the school systems so that it does things like means bullying, so that it causes policies, so that teachers have concrete policies about who is bullying in, what religious creeds are welcome, what political thoughts and agendas are welcome in the schools, what things
are happening in the community can be talked about in a safe way. That's what teaching is all about. And I'm glad to have a good friend and teacher join me in a conversation about making a safe teaching environment.
All right, Okay, so welcome to the show, Annie. And today that there is a queer march happening, Is that correct.
It?
Well, it's actually an anti Soji protest. And then there's a counter protest happening in Vancouver.
Counter progress happening in Vancouver. So explain They explained to me a little bit why you're.
A year ago, on September twentieth, there was a national Day of protest by people who were against the inclusion of.
All kinds of.
Things related to LGBTQ plus representation in schools as well as other forms, so you might hear words.
Like wokeness and.
Kind of when you take on topics that are more political in nature.
So there was a large protest in SURREYBC.
What occurred was that unlike other communities where the protesters were few and the counter protesters were many, in Surrey was the opposite. We had around I want to say, thirty five hundred people show up to the Minister of Education's offices, which is where the Surrey Teachers Association building is.
We own the building.
And so what occurred was you had people suggesting that kids are being mutilated in schools. That's SOGI was hurting kids, that and any number right a very There was some violence where some teachers were injured. So it was there's this ongoing theme that that education needs to change and that different representation of individuals of history don't necessarily need to be included in schools. Where I stand is really
at the opposite of that. So most teachers we believe that SOGI really began because we saw the mental health of our students interiorating. We continue to see huge amounts of bullying and shaming towards all kinds of kids to include those students that were part of the LGBTQ I plus community.
And so over a.
Number of years there was a development of, you know, just ways that schools could be that were more open, diverse and respectful spaces.
So I'm on that side.
So but what I mean is that today the counter protest in Vancouver is by people trying to protect that the idea of an inclusive school where to l's LGBTQ communities can kind of exist freely and and our career. Sorry, SOJI is not a curriculum, but like that we make sure that our policies respect all children.
I hope that makes sense.
That does make sense because as as a teacher, wouldn't you agree that we should be allowing our children to be who they want to be without any sort of stigmas, stereotypes, or.
Or or negativity right one percent?
And I think maybe that's where some people are confused. Where there are parents who do have concerns, is that perhaps they feel that in the way they live their lives that perhaps that's not represented fully in schools, Which is interesting because I think with ongoing conversation, you know, things can get better, you know, I teach. I teach in an area where we have all these amazing newcomers who have different traditions, and we've just folded that into
our school. Right, we welcome it. Right, it's open, we have different celebrations. You know, you don't have to cut it out. I think one distinction I have to make is that I completely agree with you. And so these protests that are happening what we've noticed over the last several years really it's a continuation of policies in place in the nineties and before, where you know, they banned
certain books, right. I mean, we had a case that went to the Supreme Court with a kindergarten teacher, James Chamberlain, that took that on and we won those cases every single time.
So it's become very vitriolic.
It's become to the point where teachers, including myself and and many others are being defamed, are being slandered, are being libeled.
Against, and and it's it's.
Gone way past the idea of parents and students, you know, feeling respected and heard in their buildings. Right, it's become a very negative atmosphere that got really tends to want to take away spaces rather than make them bigger.
Yeah, well, okay, you actually work in a public school which is actually by by the government. Yes, isn't there a point that maybe the government should take a step back from our personal lives and and be a little bit less involved in in uh in our personal lives, and a little less involved in in the personal lives of of of our children, so that our children are free to be who they want to.
Be and and to be honest with you, I think that is what our education system is trying to do. That As a teacher in a secular public school, I am not going to dictate what culture, what tradition, what faith, and and what expressions you know, to to within you know, the Charter rights right within reasonable limits.
Uh.
You know that that's in the first section of our charter that that is the goal. And so any students. You know, if a student wants to paint their nails, or they want to use their traditional name, like whatever example we can think of, they want to wear any job they you know, they they like to wear. You know that they dress a little differently than than your typical student. Like it's not for us to control that. Again, within safe and reasonable limits of course, and in terms
of really listening to parents as well. You know, again, parents are always part of.
The public school system. People are trying to say that they're not, but they are.
To the point a very specific policy point a way that what you said about the government stepping back is what we have always had in place. Number one, that we send parental consent forms for most activities, right for you know, whether it's a field study I teach secondary so people might you know, or it's a sports day or there's a specific speaker coming in. And also that by law we are mandated, the government mandates this that parents can ask or students or whatever both either can
ask for alternative assignments. And that is the duty of the administrator and teachers to provide that alternative space.
So it's not just about.
Here's what we teach, here's what on the BC government website. In terms of curriculum, there really is a back and forth and parents and and you know, people who take care of kids can engage in a dialogue about what that education looks like.
Yeah, I like what what you just said. That that's and that's kind of the point of of of education is to have an open and safe environment and the safe environment. I'm assuming that did you stop at the bullying of one student or a one student against the other, and maybe a teacher against a student.
Right, absolutely, And and teacher towards another teacher, right staff member to staff member. This is our entire society, you know, your boss versus the employee.
And again I love examples for this.
Right. So you might have a student that says, you know, according to my faith, you know, we we don't, you know, we think that being LGBTQ is a sin. Okay, And I've had kids tell me that and we've discussed it.
Right.
Where that line is is not to change their belief.
It's rather to say so if in the hallway a student is being made fun of, right, and they're saying, oh, you talk weird or you dress weird, you know whatever, right, they just they they're making another student feel uncomfortable. What is the you know, in our school we use you know, we say citizenship. Right, So how can you be the
best school citizen in that situation? Do you join in on the bullying because you happen to think that LGBTQ is a sin, or because you're seeing someone's physical, mental, spiritual emotional space being violated. Do you at least go tell a teare right, miss o'hanna, there's something going on outside, right, there's a kid crying and I think they're being bullied. That's it, right, And it doesn't mean that I'm there
to change a student's opinion. Right. But of course, like in terms of diversity, you know, I want to include books about different faiths. I want to include, you know, books about people that do great things in our world that come from different parts, that have different identities. I think it's worth reminding ourselves. Not too long ago, black indigenous people of color women, you know, those stories were
not at all in our textbooks. They were in fact banned, and in some places in the States that's happening again. You know Jewish stories, you know, like all kinds of things that were denied. So to me, it's the same thing, just that LGBTQ issues is another identity and so it should be treated the same as as anything else.
Yeah.
One one last question, you know, to make this sort of a a global question with what we're seeing on the on the global scene, with things like Afghanistan, Ah, the US president campaigns on both sides that We're not gonna pick pick sides in and and other things with sexual violence that is happening in combat and in combat situations and everything. Do you do you think that that that as a human race, would that we're forgetting the human rights should exist?
Absolutely?
I completely agree with you, and and to be honest, I think it's almost like everything's been.
Reponized and politicized. Right.
Our students live should not be politicized. Human rights should not be this this game, right. I think politicians of all kinds are trying just to get power. And what really saddens me, because my background is in criminology and political science and like legal background, is that you know, as a person who comes from an immigrant family, we really uphold the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We love
that document. I went to high school in southern Florida and the Bill of Rights right, that that means the world to me, right because it sets up a true sense of you know, the rights of a human and we can always make them better, but generally speaking, like these are supreme law documents that really tell us and protect us because yes, you have freedoms and in Canada, you know within a reasonable limit, right that's a very three I think the most important words in Canadian law
within reasonable limit. So when you see politicians sidestepping by using Section thirty three for policies like we're talking about today, when you see in America governors and Congress and even judges making decisions that strip rights away, when when actually
they're not even realizing what could go wrong. Right, you look at abortion laws, things of that nature, and what's happened, you know, as a consequence, absolutely, it seems like our beliefs our, you know, our holding up of what is one of the most important parts of our democracies, this doesn't seem to be as important anymore.
You know.
They're almost like we're going to break the law and then like let the people go to.
Court over it.
I don't want seven or nine people, you know, deciding my life, right. I don't want the government to control my life or or you know, our schools or our homes or are our places of worship. I want to live in a society that protects one another right that we can say I see you as a human, you see me as a human, and so we're going to protect one another so that we make good laws to begin with that that we govern our communities, ourselves with a sense of love and empathy and understanding, and we
can hold our you know, each other accountable. I don't want to be told I disagree with you. I'm going to pass a law that's going to hurt you. And good luck that over the next ten years trying to overturn that law that I think goes against the human rights nature that.
Both Canada and America.
You know, the Bill of Rights is obviously older, older than the Charter, but you know, I guess we can say since nineteen forty eight at least, that seem to a lot of us are the cornerstone of why we're so proud to be citizens of Canada. And then we see places like have gon as on and other places where human rights are just non existent.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I I couldn't have said said that any better myself. I like exactly the way you put that, because we, like you said, in in the US, the Supreme Court, uh in they made a judgment that should have been over the the legal immunity of of the president. The president was supposed to lie within Congress. Yeah, and they have now removed that that safety and and then of course, the the the falling of a Roe versus
way in the Supreme Court. And then I've brought up the example of Afghanistan because there is a meme out there that actually showed the Afghani women looking like any other woman that you would have seen during the nineteen sixties or nineteen seventies at the time. Yeah, fashion in everything being the same, and it's it, and now it has become so very different.
So that's such a good point, right, Like, Afghanistan has such a rich history and culture, and it's just been the last you know, like since the Cold War, right where you've seen the real downward spiral, and and here we are now it's worse than it's ever been. And I certainly it's not just the Taliban's fault, right obviously the Taliban are the ones that are in government, but we really seem to have let down the Afghani people.
And and you know, you see women that can no longer speak in public, like voices can no longer be heard. That is full frightening, right, that that is so absolutely scary. Might I note though, that you know, I saw recently a protest there were actually Afghan women walking down Kabul daring to speak, and so you know, I hold out hope. I hope that no matter what Supreme Court or government or whatever you know, enacts, that there are people that are willing to stand up for their human rights.
Yeah, I'd like like that also because the bottom line is we we need to be able to stand up for our own human rights. So absolutely, with that being said, thank you for your time today and and to everybody listening.
Is a the best way for us all to stand up for our human rights, especially if we live in a democracy, Get to the polls and cast a vote when.
It is absolutely best way to make change.
One hundred percent.
Please vote, vote, vote, I don't care who you vote for, but vote and ask questions of your candidates. I've gone to several debates already and I'm finding myself and certain not you know, not all the time, but there's moments where candidates are escaping questions or they don't even show up, and that worries me. Right, So, so if you can try to find the time to to ask candidates for for real, detailed answers, so that when you go to the polls, you go really knowing what you're voting for.
And not just a party name or a person's name. You know that there are good people running and also if they want to be to represent us, they have to be able to give us their full opinions and as much as possible, like actual policies that they would put in place. So you know, if you're gonna you know, if we cast our votes, we should always cast our votes. But but also like, let's push our representatives to be better. Let's push our governments.
To actually earn our votes and not.
Just expect us to vote for them because of whatever some sort of loyalty or or a single issue.
Yeah, all right, So we're going to move move on into clips from uh, the protests that happened in Surrey, as we actually have have a camera crew that that will be right there on the scene and at Rochester Sings uh a constituency office. Yeah all right, mhm.
And we're not we don't told the party line.
There's no party whip.
We're not told that we have to vote with David ab John Russad whoever.
In order to keep our job. We represent are constituents, unlike the corrupt all of the corrupt.
Mainstream parties who represent corporations, independence serves and independent works for constituents. I went to my first ever all candidates meeting last night and I was.
Murdered.
Would be a bit of an exaggeration, but certainly both the NDP.
There were two NDP candidates there and one Conservative, and they both ganged up on me when I dared to say anything against Soji.
They said, we've got to protect the kids. And I told my.
Response that was.
That statement implies.
That the kids need protecting, that somehow people like myself are against the kids, were attacking.
Them or discriminating against them. That's not the case at all.
I described SOGI as exactly what it is. I called it a crime against humanity and they all rolled their eyes. Interestingly, one of the indie indie the candidates there was rush Roj Chuhan was.
The Speaker of the House.
He is the same speaker who is sitting in the chair.
When Bruce Banman, a Conservative MLA from Abbots for the.
One of the moments of the bids, Bruce Baman.
Stood up in the in the in the legislature and started to read from one of the from one of the books, from one of the pornographic books that are available in school libraries accessible by keithin the os Biben six years old Rodman started to read from that book and Raj Juhan, the speaker of the house, shut him down. Shut there's badman down, saying we don't we don't tolerate that kind of language in this in this house, to which Batman just retracted his comments and apologized and sat down.
He should have stood up and called out the speaker and said, mister speaker, if this language, this kind of language is not permitted in this house with a bunch of so called adults in the room, how the hell is it appropriate for five and six year old kids?
And so wins my speech for now.
What a shame again faces because you know this is harder less.
You're at home while we are trying to save.
Our children who are taught.
Crap in school's not academics.
They are inductrinated.
Sexualization of children are going behind closed doors and parents have no idea.
So you need to face us.
You need to give up your job, the cushion job you've got, you anything from home.
We suffer and.
Our kids saw and there is no transparency.
Again, you don't rememba you not be there. If you have some shape, you will resign and then coming play far in the year.
Especially, haven't thought dominated cook a love bust thank you?
This means a lot.
She pertains, she's our minister, she's our m la.
But when the constitutes come to meet her, they.
Love us the office and run away the office.
They're paid. Whose hand is paid by our undis dollars. The staff is paid by us. This building is not only a man a rectiona sings office.
It's also Surrey Teachers Union.
Who Surry Teachers Union and PC Education Minister Retinas. So just for your introduction, we all know what SOGI is. But let me give you an example. There is a school called Sullivan Height Secondary School in Surrey.
Eighteen students.
Eighteen students identify as animals in those schools because the tea children you can identify anything, so they behave like cats and dogs.
Eighteen students.
So I am talking to principal of Sullivan Height Secondary Principal and vice principal.
You are involved in a criminal act. You met eighteen.
Students believe that they are animals, and every single day the behavior of the animalsarents.
Know, teachers know who does not know. Their parents don't know.
Those parents have no clue whose children identify as animals.
It's a criminal. We will soon.
Start protesting in front of that school. Sullivan hides Kendri because.
Wha.
We need to make those animals humans again, make student animals humans again. It's criminal. We have the media in Surrey, many journalists, radio stations. We have let them know, but they don't do anything. The children think they are animals because they are brain washed, indoctrinated, and everyone is okay with it.
I said, but we are not.
We were going to that school.
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