The Fountain

Hello and welcome to another episode of Polarize Podcast. I'm your host, James. Welcome back, everybody. Welcome any newcomers. This is the podcast about polarizing movies, the movies that audiences and critics disagree on according to Round Tomatoes. Sometimes the audiences love it. Sometimes the critics hate it. Or vice versa. Those are the movies that we love to talk about. Today is a special episode. It's our second Airnarski movie that we've covered. It's The Fountain.

It is starring Hugh Jackman and Rachel Weiss. If you haven't seen it, that's those are the basics. It came out, what was the year that this bad boy came out? 2006, November 22nd. Drama, mystery and thriller, romance, sci-fi. Those are all that are listed there on the Round Tomatoes and I'd say it is true. The premise is a man travels through time on a quest for immortality and to save the woman he loves. As a 16th century conquistador, Tomas searches for the legendary found of youth.

As a present day scientist, he desperately struggles to cure the cancer that is killing his wife. Finally, as a 26th century astronaut in deep space, Tom begins to grasp the mysteries of life, love and death. And here folks, I can't tell you how happy I am joining you on this episode. But nothing makes me happier than introducing you to my conquistador, the Great Brandini. Dude, oh, I am happy to be your conquistador on this episode. Brandini, the Great Conquistador. Yes, the Brandini d'estador.

You must finish my book. Finish my book, please. Finish my book, Brandini. My conquistador. Man. That is miter than the sword. I am excited about this. I'm a big, big excited energy coming from me on this because big, excited. Big excited energy. This is kind of a special movie. Is it not? I got that sense from you. This is your birthday choice. Yeah, let's get let's come out and say that your birthday has already happened. But nonetheless, this was the choice for it.

And this is a movie that has been recommended to me by many of friends of mine that I respect their movie opinions. I had very casually watched it once before, but remember almost nothing of it. And now upon, you know, this viewing with more of a I'm sitting down really paying attention. I'm taking it all in. What a movie it is. And I'm excited to talk to you about it, man. Me too.

That's good to hear that you've had people tell you about it because I can't say I know many people that, yeah, that hold this one in high regard or remember it. You know, Aaron off, you of course is a famed director and has done a lot of interesting things for for good or bad, depending on your taste, whatever it may be. But whatever he does are big swings.

And this one was early enough in his career where it hit me at a time where I was, you know, trying to get into like requiem for a dream and memento and stuff for the kind of the movies that I was looking at these at those directors. And of course, Aaron Nowski and Nolan and stuff just kind of like, oh, I can't wait to see more of the movies that these guys do. And this one was a, I think, slow burn for me in terms of how much I loved and enjoyed it because I think the first time I watched it.

I had this habit of like, I didn't have a TV memory, but I have my laptop and like late at night, if I couldn't sleep or something, I just kind of like laying in my bed and watching a laptop, you know, the way that Aaron Nowski, I'm sure would have wanted to see it, of course, just ripped from some fucking website.

And then I liked it enough that, and this is another thing of our time, I had an iPod video that I figured out before streaming and whatnot that I could down illegally download movies and then put them on my video iPod, which was like an 80 gigs on bitch. They held a lot of shit. And then you could hook it up to the TV via HDMI. There was like an HDMI like a plug in for the iPod where you hooked into the iPod and then you could plug it into a TV.

So when I was walking around with my iPod, not only did I have music that I could show people, I'd be like, Hey, I have like five of my favorite movies on my iPod and I would be going vacation or something and I'd bring the cord and stuff and I could just throw it on. And this was one of those movies I think I downloaded and kind of would revisit and it has grown in esteem for me over the years greatly and it has in a way like morphed the same way that I've grown.

I feel like I look at the movies differently as I've grown older and stuff and that the movie is about these, these timeless things of humanity that we're constantly dealing with of life and death and whatnot. I feel like those things and how I look at them has changed over the years too. So I would look at this movie as well. And I think that's a mark of an important movie in one's life is being able to rewatch it and get something new out of it each time. And I think I do.

And it's been a minute since I've seen it, but I have seen it so many times that it was able to just kind of wash over me in such a pleasant way that was like, it's been a while but I can still kind of cite every scene and just take it in. But so you you watched it casually and then you had some friends kind of. Yeah, because it was. Mm hmm.

Sure. Yeah. Well, it was more so my friends were telling me to watch it to the point of somebody must have put it on when I was living with a lot of people and. Oh, you had someone like me. Someone like me. Oh, I brought my iPod in this cable. Here you go. Because this is definitely a college movie for me. Like I didn't watch it when it came out.

It wasn't until like a couple years later, not too far after because yeah, like I would love to spend a lot of time on Darren Aronofsky just as a whole because I think having now seen this movie, it colors my opinion about him or it adds a lot more context to him. That was it's similar to we, you know, I just recently watched. Magnolia and to. See a movie from a director that I really like by and large, but that's a blind spot for me.

So then for light to be shed on this, you know, another movie in their filmography to then provide some interesting context and just color the overall or provide depth into my understanding of the directors that I love because yeah, again, like you mentioned is Darren Aronofsky, I feel like is one of our guys for our generation where he made some really important movies that. They and just by and large, like you said, you know, Christopher Nolan or P.T. Anderson or whatever.

These people, these directors have made movies that really. I don't know, like. Brought something to my experience that I was like, oh, this is I haven't seen a lot of movies like this and it's so interesting how they're tackling this subject matter or providing this perspective on life. And yeah, it's, you know, for me with Darren Aronofsky, it's definitely a requiem for a dream was the first outing for me because it was one of those movies when it came out.

It was such a huge deal because it's so are and so gritty and so raw. So at the time that it came out, you know, I getting into movies, I was starved for something beyond the more popular things and something very artsy and a requiem for a dream. Especially what you will about that movie, but it is very. Yeah, I don't know. It just very powerful. It has what it what it's tackling and that is really interesting, especially.

Yeah, when it came out when I first thought I was like, wow, this is this is something. Yeah, I'm really interested in and I love this is such a creative director and that movie, whatever you say about the subject, the content of it, his his ability to edit, direct and construct an artistic visual language within his movie is apparent immediately. And like, it's been a long time since I've seen pie, but requiem for a dream for sure is as I started there and maybe went back to and watch pie once.

But don't remember really much about it. But requiem for a dream is not something that yeah, it's the whole thing with that movie or it says like, you know, you don't want to watch that movie again.

Definitely worth seeing, but it is rough, but you can see so many bold swings in a practical sense in that in that movie, especially, you know, a lot of a lot of the camera work, whether it's when they're taking drugs and the quick edits, the refrigerator, the, you know, when it's Marlon Wayne's right when he's running and the shaky cam that's or like that's harnessed on to him and then the cam cameras are in front of him.

So you just see hit that interesting point of view and the Ellen Bernstein's performance with that refrigerators and shooter McAvon and all that stuff is like harrowing and so frightening in such a way. And so it makes such a mark on you that you know, you never really forget it. And I mean, this movie has that effect on me too. I've seen it more times and other other movies of his too. But the movies, his movies have a way of really making a mark on you for, yeah, and for better or worse.

And this one, I believe when I was thinking about it, kind of goes into the camp of, yeah, Noah and mother, I guess, would be the more religious kind of kind of ones that are, yeah, like that are dealing with Christianity directly, of course, his mother and Old Testament and everything and more so than I guess in anything, not Christian, but it's way more Old Testament. So yeah, where he's coming from. Yeah. Very biblical nonetheless.

So that's why the comparison to Noah is obviously, you know, an easy connection. But you know, what's interesting now, like, I don't know, maybe I did know this at a point, but I reacquainted myself with Darren Aronofsky for this movie is that he's an atheist. So it's really kind of now knowing that makes more sense because the way that he approaches and he often does, like you said, biblical themes and how religion. Yeah, like he's mythological.

He's making it a myth and the modern myth of, you know, of that faith and telling his own tale within it the same way that myths have been told over and over again by different people and it's changed. And that was something that I was a little more resistant to Noah, but that one ended up being better in our esteem than we expected. Not a perfect movie and it is batshit in a lot of ways, but it's like he is taking that big swing and he knows exactly in his head how he wants to do it.

And it's impressive to see even if it is something like Mother where you're like, this is something that is so far out of its own ass in a lot of ways and pretentious, which I think comes with the territory with him. That it's unattainable. Like it's I can't I don't want to touch it with like a thirty nine and a half football because it's just it's it's too far above my head as it's as it thinks it is.

Then I'm like, I don't even want to engage or meet you halfway because you're so far, you know, up your own ass. I don't want to go up there either with you, but it is worth seeing that movie and this one as I've gotten older, it gets close closer to that, but then it never really gets. I was going to say, yeah, never gets there for me because maybe I have such a history with it, but I know it definitely has those melodramatic and kind of kind of kind of moments that that are up its own ass.

But the way that it is more not completely, but it's a little bit more vague and then multi-interpretational, maybe not purposeful either completely with that. But that helps me engage with it more rather than mother that's like, yeah, and this is like this part. It's such straight allegory of like, this is what this part is in the Bible and this is Cane and Abel and then all the house or everyone's taken apart on Mother Earth is upset. And it's just kind of hitting you over the head with it.

And this one is such a more feelings based sort of sort of thing for me. And yeah, I can ramble on and on. This is going to be one of those episodes. We're off to catch myself because yeah, I do enjoy this movie a lot. But my thoughts, even forming them, I find incomplete sometimes because I look at it at a new way and I like that it's not, it doesn't really have all the answers there. It has the general ones, but everything else is kind of you're just kind of along along for the ride.

But anyways, that's good that you recognize that because I think that why I'm so excited and to talk to you about this is because this viewing for me, I was left with, I understand that there's these big ideas that are getting played, but I the more often than not, it's positing these ideas and whether or not I more often than not, for me, I don't think that it gets deep into it. It just goes, isn't this an interesting idea?

But to that point, though, upon reading reviews and looking at how people online have commented and just really love this movie, it's it's it's quite something to go on YouTube and watch. You know, Darren talk about it. Other YouTubers talk about this movie and dissect and whatnot. And the comment section is like, this is my favorite movie. This movie has helped me. If you think this movie is boring, you just don't get it.

And there's such a fervent, you know, cult following behind this movie, which goes, I would assume to goes with a lot of his movies because he posits some really interesting ideas that I think it does benefit a bit. I'll give it some credit that it does benefit a bit by being so not like non specific. Or not getting to in the weeds on something and just going like, here is this idea and then allowing the, you know, the viewer to connect with it in whichever way they want to meet the film at.

Or however, it makes sense to them, which is really fascinating because. Again, it just, I don't know, I see the pros and the cons of that, of it is good that you have something maybe so universal of an idea or so interesting of an idea that people can relate to it however they want to.

But then again, it's hard for me to really understand his point of view on some of this stuff because I just feel like he is in this movie in particular because there are other movies and I want to talk to continue to talk about Darren Aronofsky about these things that he works with because again, just like with this movie, he has there just such a. He has a well of ideas that he continues to work through in each one of his movies that

share a lot of commonality, you know, because I can easily make connections between the fountain and even something like Black Swan or the rest. Lurie, even though they're not as biblical as mother or Noah, I think there is also something a part of this movie, you know, especially the. The drive of Hugh Jackman to want to solve problems or this idea of.

Fixing things, this idea of death is also present in the wrestler, for example, you know, I was thinking about it in relation to like trying to make connections to this with this movie to that because they are arguably pretty different because of the rest are being so so grounded in reality. I saw this in the wrestler there.

The main themes of that is this idea of getting older and coming to terms with reality and losing your, you know, your faculties, your body and then relationships and how important those are. And then that relationship, you know, sounds like the whale as well. I haven't seen the whale. I've just weirdly been like, I don't know if I want to see this movie. Understandable. You know, just because also too, it's the requiem for a dream of it all where he is very capable of.

Getting into really gross parts of the human psyche and presenting that to you or having a pretty pessimistic view on humans as a whole. And I think a lot of that too comes out in his really like. Kind of crusader ish attitude about the planet and how if you were to ask him, I feel like he would say human beings are ruining the planet and we need to do something about it.

And this idea that human beings are so flawed, so self interested and so destructive because I mean, that's again, when you think about Black Swan, when you think about requiem for a dream, it really hones in on how society offers all of these ills and we as humans get, you know, like kind of destroy ourselves in these pursuits and whether they're noble pursuits or not is always relatively vague, which is an, you know, a credit to him because that also goes into the found where it.

He operates a little bit and being vague because he, you know, it's because he's way more interested in these bigger concepts more often than not, but he's also very capable of bringing that down to the ground and going like, you know, like in the fountain, this idea of I have the ability to change things and just really destroying yourself in this pursuit of trying to fix things and fix the world and yeah, it's just, you see that a lot in all of his

movies and so again, I just all leave this and say like his prose and his movies are very, very interesting.

And like you said with mother is, is that when you talk about critically, you know, reviewing each one of his movies, I think it's, it comes, a lot of it comes down to the success of whether or not he makes it, he provides enough depth, provides enough of like really how he feels about it as opposed to just this is what this concept is and just presenting it to you to take it however you want, you know, and yeah, I don't know.

It just, I found myself with this movie having somewhat of a hard time because of the fact that it isn't really interested in more of like Hugh Jackman and his this idea of why he is so like I weirdly enough, I feel like I need more about why he is so hell bent on not just that this is the weird part, it's not just saving her, but where does that come from for him outside of I guess just the general idea of like all of us are afraid of death

or all of us are afraid of loss like what I really wanted a lot more of what his what is driving him to have these reactions to the situation that we're presented in the movie. Yeah. I think. Yeah, it was a lot, a lot to take in. I'm sorry. Yeah. I think a lot of his characters, obviously, they're the protagonists to have an obsessive quality to them.

And I think the themes beyond that he chooses for different movies and there's there's drug use, there's mathematical equations, there's building an arc and hearing God and saving people that way and and having like one focus despite whatever one's telling you, there's you know, obesity, there's being number one ballerina in the show and and jealousy and the rest of the arts like being a leaving a legacy and being obsessed a little bit about

that of like writing your wrongs and that's I mean that's substance use as well and and trying to it's almost like half-hassing the 12th program or something a little bit in that we're just trying to make amends before and and accepting. Yeah, that movie is extremely dark as with the whale and everything and I think there is this shining light of humanity as well. I think a lot of it is showing the darkness for sure.

The difference with this movie, I'll say, I think there is a lot of familial drama between people in his movies.

The one with the I think the difference with this one, I think that is successful for me is the romantic relationship between Hugh Jackman and Rachel Weiss and that goes a long way for me in terms of maybe what you're talking about of not having enough for this obsessive quality of trying to stop his his wife from dying and it is maybe a little convenient that he is working on this exact thing in the science lab and but a lot of it plays

like a like a fable or like a fairy tale or something for me because those kind of convenient melodramatic things of him like I got to get back to the lab and work on a cure sort of thing is so cut and dry and straightforward that it does kind of lend itself to their performances and their chemistry and them having one on one time together, which I just find this movie shines in those moments so much and that's when I feel emotional and I care

about the characters the most in those moments but it is very much like you always work too much and you need to embrace the moments and that to me like while he has a hard time with that and overall you know beat some self up over and over there is like an optimism in this movie of or at least the driving home part of it is like embracing those moments and trying and not try to rally against what's inevitable and what is going to happen whether you like it or not.

It comes to a head and I know I like that we're kind of just going kind of broad with this movie because yeah this movie still works like almost 100% of the time for me I think it comes to a head with me where it almost is there's a little bit of friction for me and like much later watches is the funeral where he very bluntly says like there is a cure for death and like we're and I got to find it just like anything death is a disease

that's a little that was like in more recent watchings that's where that gets a little bit too much for me as great as I think Hugh Jackman delivers all of his lines even even one like that.

100% That's where it's like there's that's where it starts to veer on the like oh I can't I can't meet you halfway on that idea but in order for the you know the futuristic side of the bubble and the tree and all that to exist that's almost like where his mind would have to be and for it to like in like whatever 26th century like and that's what he's you know and like that that that is so far out it is almost like a fairy tale and to actually

think of that as a I like to think of it like straight as a reality if he did defeat death and he is in this bubble with her tree form and going to Shibuoba like it's such a such such a weird romantic surrealistic thing there and then like the connection with the the book and the conquistador I think a lot of people maybe would have issues with that those three things all like all over the place because I get a lot more out of it each time I try

I see those connections between those three three facets of the story and if it was just the reality of what's actually happening in the modern age of just his wife dying from cancer him not able to accept it and trying to find a cure that would be such a dark depressing movie that I couldn't find myself wanting to watch as much as I have had watched the reason it does work for me is like as I've been saying is like it's creating a myth out

of their life like she is writing this this book and and creating a myth and and and romanticizing their relationship and their life in this like yeah and the old Spanish inquisition which is a funny interesting and it's and having that and then having him finish the story and the metatextual elements of that within the movie not not outside and our own you know breaking the fourth wall sort of thing but breaking a wall within the movie of

the way the story ends is how he makes it and you know like I just I love all that kind of play with within it and it does come across as like high level art student a lot of this stuff where he's not concerned with connecting those dots so tightly but he wants to create a visual tapestry for you to kind of sink your teeth into along with the fantastic music but all of that stuff goes so far for me I imagine a lot of the people that are polarized positively towards this

but I could also see that people being just like this is why are we jumping so much in between all this and what does this other other stuff mean and uh any of you who do know what it means like why do I care sort of thing but were you frustrated at all with jumping between all those yes yeah yeah I was I was frustrated because especially with the what is it it's in what year the future version we'll just call him the space I think in that little synopsis on round tomatoes

are right at the beginning it said like 26th century or something like that gotcha that stuff ended up bugging me quite a bit um I could see that bugging a lot of people yeah because especially the way that it ends it really isn't necessary in in my mind if I could just just kind of do a little rewrite if I if I were to approach this if I this is what would have made it better for me is the fact that he ends up completing the story love that motif of him

reconciling with this loss by him finishing her story love love love that idea but you also get quite a bit of resolution and I'm really kind of okay with how the conquistador side ends in communicating the broader thesis and all of the space travel stuff is way too heady and makes it very confusing at times where because it wasn't clear at all that he's a the same person as his present the present version of them and be that it's a spaceship that's traveling like none of that

really is clear so the fact that the conquistador timeline resolves in the same like point I just honestly I could say do without the future version of him and just keep it present and conquistador because again as a big swamp thing fan of the comic series it deals so much in this idea that I really love and take to heart and view the world a little bit in this way is I think because I'm an atheist as well this idea of the afterlife is you going back into like you

going back into the end of the cycle you be like the way that the movie communicates the end of his of the conquistador timeline is that actually the fountain of you this you returning to the earth which then is you living forever because the earth continues to live on after you and that idea is really great but all of the more Buddhist leaning future stuff is really I don't yeah it just I didn't love it I I really didn't I think you could have achieved the same effect by just having the present

and the and the conquistador story because also to how strongly those are linked and the future version has so little connection like actual connection you know because like what I mean is the conquistador story is written by Rachel wise in a story so that has a clear connection to the present the future version doesn't it is all just self-serving of this self-actualization message that the movie is trafficking in because what it's okay I'm gonna just pause at what I think

she talks about Shubhoba she does which yes she does you know but yeah um I don't know if she was thinking that bubble man is gonna travel with tree spaceship tubes you know it's that's yeah um um anyways yeah I love how that comes to fruition and it is like heady is a great way to put it and it is like and it is asking a lot I think of of the audience but the visual payoff and the and the cut cuts to that are I don't know it is a for a come to fruition of if you succeed yeah if you

succeed in defeating death and this is this is what you're left with is such a far out concept in Aronofsky's head and the visual way that he's going to sell it uh is weird and is weird I'm sure for a lot of people and when it and when it escalates at the end of him you know going into his pose and opening his third eye and blasting off into Shubhoba is probably where a lot of people are like what is I just saw a man I just saw a man drinking tree sap and turned into bushes and now

I'm seeing a man like launched into the into a dying star but I just think it's uh yeah just a strangely obscurely beautiful in in a in a way that I can understand is is pretentious as as well like as with a lot of his things and and and knowing what you sign up for for one of his movies but I just find it yeah I find it so beautiful when the they talk about death being the road to awe and love that and like the end of that and him seeing you know the hairs on the tree and

then understanding like he's gonna die now going to the going to Shubhoba with the with her and everything is like it doesn't it doesn't meet you halfway in that sense either where it's like helping you a lot with understanding maybe what's happening or why this is important or already even how it connects uh to the modern Hugh Jackman that all that stuff is is extremely visual because the way this movie begins as well is like already you're you're going into it as

it's already happening especially the conquistador is like a key part is kind of the climax of the movie is where you're starting and the conquistador storyline is like them actually finding it for the first time approaching him seeing the the sort of flaming sword but that whole transition with him being bald in the office and then having hair and that constant mirroring of that scene tells you a little clue at least of of something and then the pen you know and tattooing and

and all that stuff and planning planning the tree and him everyone like constantly looking up at at Shubhoba but uh the the payoff for that I can completely understand not being for everybody I completely get it the book the book thing is like almost like a classic like that's just a like that could be in a romantic drama as well just that storyline of called you know of her dying writing a story and leaving the husband like you could have Nicholas Sparks write that and

get in a completely different fucking way but this is what this is what makes it high art Brandon this is what makes it high art and that but that's what I'm in conflict with because is while I was watching the movie I was constantly like high fart the it's high farting it's the plot of this is getting so it's getting so uh the plot doesn't matter it's moving so far away from a linear plot and it's getting so into just concepts that I really ended up being frustrated with it

because of again it is it is so clearly idea over any semblance of trying to make this functional you know yes it very much has like a blank check feeling to it where these are ideas that I'm wrestling with I don't really give a damn whether or not this makes sense from a plotting standpoint I just want to present these very strong visuals which I'll agree that the future version of Hugh Jackman all of that stuff visually is very very cool looks so cool looks very cool but it's

served so little of the plotting to me that I constantly was like I don't know if I love this I I get what it's doing but I don't know if I love this because of the fact that it's so it's so about the idea and has very little regard for this character or the characters in the story as a whole you know moving from point A to point B it's weird to say because typically yeah I feel like when this movie came out it probably would have hit me harder because I was more of the mindset

as a younger person that I'm presented with very heady concepts and respecting that more so than the alternative which is so linear so formulaic and and and really despising that to a degree because I'm like this is such a trider so uh you know uh yeah it's such a stereotypical story but I wasn't crazy about the tree thing like the him turning into bushes the first time I saw it I was like oh this white tree sap oh he's turning a bit whoa I was just so caught off guard I wasn't sure I wasn't

sure how to feel about it I should say I wasn't sure if I didn't like I was just like whoa I did not expect that then that whole ending like last 15 minutes it's just kind of like whoa and this is kind of the Clint Mansell music I really got to bring up again is something that drives the movie in a lot of the like the ways that Requiem for a Dream that his famous motif kind of Requiem song and that movie is built so much in that third act and that final climactic moment of Requiem that

this in a way echoes that that same arc of of the of the score in the in the movie I feel like there were ways that he would use different sonic qualities depending on if he was in the future world or if he was in Conquistorland maybe a little bit I felt like a little bit more strings and a little bit more synth and the future stuff but I don't know it was tough to say I just that that final you know sweet whatever you would call in that in the in the song when everything is is really

transcending and ascending and coalescing and and and flowering and all that stuff is is something that blinds me maybe from worrying about some of those things where I'm just I'm so emotionally caught up in the visual aspect of it and really enjoy it just as as a visual sort of thing to live in I feel like I live in this movie when I when I'm in it and somehow it's a strange thing we're like it's an hour and a half long and in a and in a way that I don't think is bad it feels

longer and I like that it's it feels very densely packed to me it feels like every everything kind of matters in the movie to me I feel like there isn't any sort of space that like I feel like everything is important to me in the movie and I mean that's just someone who's seen it enough that it's like oh this scene oh I love this you know as the movie's going on it's and the visual parallels that he's able to do with the camera is something that regardless of whatever movie he's making is

just he's such he's so good with the fucking camera and I love the practical effects of the snow on the when he looks at the the ceiling and having that be shebola having that be them thing that they look into the microscope of that's how it looks in the microscope from oh give me that sample from South America oh yeah Central America oh yeah that's where it's a little it's you know it's a little hooky yeah I get it there's a lot of that I would love to now take this time

now that you presented it to oh finish your point I'm sorry oh that's it yeah like that those that's all just like the visual the visual parallels are so cool such interesting fun creative ways of doing the movie I think I think the lighting is is is really great I love the one just a few of the shots I mean the when he's walking into the apartment it it so close it closes in on a picture that's in a frame on the wall and it's playing on this background jungle noise and

you think it's going into conquistador land but then it zooms out and it's the apartment that they live in or the house and he walks in and yeah like that that kind of stuff is kind of stuff is it's so satisfying to me it's very satisfying I mean I love as well but yeah I had a feeling that this is how this conversation would go to is that I had that you were going to with history of it be able to accept a lot of the

themes of it over the logistics of it yeah and it's one of those for and yeah and for me I had a hard time not thinking about the logistics of it you get the plot location so on and so forth because yeah this movie is so sparse and I and the reason of it is reading about it is so originally this was going to be a much bigger movie it was going to have like more like conquistador battles way more blank check way more blank check you're going to get the

Benjamin Button cast you're going to get Brad Pitt and Kate Brunchett and Brunchett oh man what a man Brad Pitt was like no spank you I do not agree with this Aaron Aske fellow yeah I've yeah I've heard he's kind of a kind of a pill but so like the logistics of it for me was a little confusing and took me out of it where the way the movie is edited and the way it moves through itself is he is in this underground lab then there's also a hospital that she goes to

then there's a house that they're at and then when there's the funeral you see that maybe those two places are next not the hospital but the lab and his place are next to each other out in the middle of nowhere and I didn't get that that was Ellen Bursine's farm oh is it okay yeah so she was like telling him okay I like in the hospital like oh I want to like she said I can be buried at her farm and he gets all mad oh I'm I guess I missed that because I yeah I was just trying to see

this movie many times I apologize but the logistics of it where yeah and also too this movie is so incredibly dark to the point where there's a lot of like conquistador stuff for sure light coming from outside so bright that you can't see outside so be somebody entering into a place and you can't even see what's out there because it's so bright and then the movie is so dark so fucking dark every scene like even in the lab it's like so many shadows and everybody's

just kind of operating in this I like that lighting I don't know yeah I like all of the orange hue and a lot of gold yeah which is cool I love this thematic element of that the blinds are kind of drawn and then yeah you open the the door and it's like harsh white kind of light outside in so he's and he's and this is something that's overplayed a lot as much as I love it but yeah he's darkness and she's light you know oh that's such a guy and she's all snowy and she's wearing

white he's wearing dark he's in this little shadowy place yeah again that's you I and I love this I give it so much credit I understand yeah a lot of people they're like you give it so much good into the theme of it and I understand I do like I totally do yeah it's because to me it just yeah there's no real establishing shots of anything everybody just exists in these caves and or hospitals and yeah it just it's true yeah there's it's just the driving like the upside

down to the horse riding or the upside down to the car driving or the upside down to the bubble going is really the only yeah like shot of like outside and even when he's driving in that road there's like no one on the on the road or anything but and that makes me think this movie was story boarded heavily there's a lot about it that Aaron off yeah I feel like had in his brain of how he exactly wanted to look at least like the visual parallels of all that stuff I can picture him

storyboarding that very specifically oh sure and yeah and there's so many parts about this movie that are very storyboarded because it is so concise in things it's like transitions transitions it's like okay here's this thing here's that thing and it just it yeah again hour 30 love that it doesn't overstay it's welcome for me but yeah again I just end up you know very little about all the other players outside of them there's also two and you'd mention

this and something that I think too at this age that I'm watching it I had a hard time with this this idea that a scientist would be so in like have the perspective that solving death is his is like a motive of his yeah because I feel like any scientist you would talk to would talk to would be like so matter of fact about how death is a part of life and you're when you're trying to approach solving a problem in a scientific sense you're not trying to yeah like the idea is to make

people last longer like I would assume that actually a lot of scientists would be detrimental to society yeah like that's not the goal the goal would be you know yes we like if anything we want to eliminate suffering in later in in the back half of all of our lives that I could understand being a pursuit but being so like hell bent on no we need to solve this death problem just seems not very scientific at all and is so again about the themes of it sure but when you think about

these being real people or like because again I just I guess I got pretty heavily wrapped up in how ungrounded the plotting and the people the characters in this movie end up being they just are all serving and not even all of them most of them are so shallow like all of the external characters all those other scientists and stuff like that really don't have there's not any time spent with them so you really don't understand what their kind of involvement or their motives are

that would apply to a conflict or apply a different perspective to like how somebody else would view this situation there's none of that it is so it's so laser for burn scene at least yeah but even then I feel like all the lines that she's given is you're tired like you need to calm down you know that kind of thing and it's not there's never a moment where Ellen Bernstein is talking to somebody else other than Hugh Jackman about Hugh Jackman for example or what this means

if we were to find a cure for death which then goes into my issue with the future version of him where there's nothing really to give you this there's not yeah there's so so so little to explain or to at least provide a level of understanding as to why why now he is able to live forever and then what that means for the rest of society it's just so insular it's like if the movie presents itself as being like only he figured out the how to prevent

death but then again it's only about him you know which again I can under like it serves a bigger theme but the plotting and the logistics of this movie yeah that's where like yeah what you described I wouldn't really enjoy that movie it sounds like the stuff that you're describing that you want in the movie isn't something that I want or need and actually I find would make those other things mean less in a way that like it it I I actively don't want some of those answers and having the ability

to think about it myself and for my own opinion on what happened there amazing yeah in between those things and why he's in this position and how it got here is like his dream like for me it like it puts it puts me in a place of like think of creatively hashing it out in my own brain of what I possibly think might have happened and getting into the logistics of that in this movie doesn't sound like something that this movie even itself wants or needs in my mind yeah and I can see how

somebody would want that movie and would want that experience and going into this is more answers and more a lot of questions as to why as that's why these things are happening and how we got here and and all of that and like having a lot of exterior characters having outside scenes apart from Hugh Jacken Rachel Weiss the insular nature of of the movie and having it be so so much it really is he's in every scene there isn't a scene without him or her or both.

Cater's in my mind to the fairy tale nature the fable nature like the way that the conquistador feels like it is written in a create like a like it's a it's a story that you'd read in a book it ends up making the modern story if you like that as well as the futuristic story and it comes across as myth to me rather than a hard sci-fi it's like it's more it's more fantasy and the romantic nature of it probably like I can I vouch for that and that probably like that vouches for maybe a lot of the

things that don't make sense or don't have any sort of logical basis or sort of explanation to it the thing that does frustrate me the in more like the later watchings of this movie is some of the stuff with the modern Hugh Jackman and and his whole rage against Seth as we mentioned a couple times I do like the idea like his whole like vibe and his whole like energy like his energy towards everybody and towards his work and towards her explains it as well in a lot of ways of just

how he comes off to people and how closed off everyone is like kind of explains enough of like what's going on and it's something that is going to be a very subjective thing in a movie like this that doesn't give you a lot in those departments that you that you just mentioned I think and while it isn't something as like surreal as like a David Lynch movie or something those kind of aspects of the futuristic stuff like makes me feel like I'm in that sort of space

where like this guy is a great artist and he had this idea of a visual thing that he thought was important enough and strong enough of a visual idea that people would accept it in their own way of of a storytelling tactic within this world but it is a bold swing it's a big fucking swing and he must have known that it was not going to work for work for everybody at least Brad Pitt so I yeah I give in definitely to this being a movie that not everyone wanted to see this

version of it and how it played out because it the structurally is an orthodox in terms of like a big in terms of like a big a big movie like it's an unorthodox way of making a movie of like essentially three vignettes that the way that they are tied together I think is a lot of issues are derived from there as well but for me that last 15 minutes how it kind of all comes together there yeah it makes me satisfied but yeah hey no I mean that's a great explanation as to why you

like this movie and it also just paints a light of like how it is successful on another in what it's doing like it really reached you where it was because what I hear from what you just said is that that you don't need to like you enjoy the idea of what this movie is communicating and trafficking in enough where you don't need the specifics you're just so enthralled by what it's making you think about and the fact that the movie understands that and doesn't need it doesn't feel the need to be

more grounded or have what I what I would say too though is there's just very little challenge like not having other characters talk about things or providing more color and plotting it creates less friction and allows the idea to just be the idea it's a huge act man really yes he's getting challenged a little bit by Ellen Bernstein but that's not really like she's pretty much kind of on board with a lot of what's going on she'll be like oh it's pissed off at I mean the

whole like because of the whole conflict there whatever is like the the tumor and it's not going down and then it's the monkey's like essentially de-aging and going back to a younger younger self and in its brain but he's not happy because the tumor is not not going down as the but there's yeah there's only a couple scenes that really show that show that conflict and everyone's so stoked on that but he's stifling the real progress because he wants to just work on this one thing and then

then he finds out that the tumor actually goes the tumor actually goes down and it's too late it's so sad to me it's a very sad it's a very fucking sad it's a very sad like the the thrust of the main story is is fucking sad but also yeah and and we've we've casually mentioned it but the thing that goes a long way for me yeah I mean Hugh Jackman Rachel Weiss I think they're at like their prime here yeah like they're performance wise and uh looks wise for both of them I mean come on

they look so good though I mean and the wardrobe of like the conquistador scene of him walking in with all the candles and her behind that like leafy cage door as she's like talking to him and then they're talking about going on this quest like is is one of my favorite scenes and that kind of stuff it just looks like a cool fucking like music video or just like perfume Chanel perfume ad yeah totally she just looks so fucking beautiful and like the and when like

the light comes in and it's just like bright white on her and then yeah and the candles look like stars there's all the in all this visual imagery in the the bathtub scene I think is just devastatingly uh so sad and and their performance of that is something in a movie that has such a big high concept ideas going at it there's a scene of them in a bathtub just very human dramatic sad scene of of uh of something that is that is base level just I think a really good dramatic scene whatever

movie you put it in and to have that that thrust of a of a modern sad sort of thing and then and flavor it with the this this stuff I think is is a is the move that this movie went and it's it's interesting it's not what you would expect from a movie about the fountains of youth no and yeah just to my only point to the to that is I I totally agree with you and I it just shows Rachel wise is really my the star of this movie for me because I think she is able to because

like I've communicated having a problem with this not being grounded enough is she grounds the movie in every which way she really provides a lot of like this is like bringing us back this is the problem that is happening this is the conflict that is happening and she is incredible uh she really understands the assignment and she brings so much of like this hurt this pain this understanding this coming to terms with her own death so yeah it's just so well I mean love her she's the best

there's like a multitude of emotions that she portrays and like the whole like asking him to come take a walk is like she's in such a state of zen of acceptance and he's quite the opposite of denial denial denial and seeing those those two interact uh I yeah I give a lot of credit to to both of them but she comes across so effortless so effortless Hugh Jackman I think is this era you know of him and doing like things like prisoners and um 38 in this movie the prestige is is around

this time and these are just some of yeah some of my favorite movies performances and uh he brings he brings a brings a weight to it when he has to you know have those those breakdowns and and yeah in the cost like the wardrobe man like him there's a little conch he's a little conch he's doing with his little hat oh it's so great his facial hair and stuff there her dress and that scene of course as I mentioned and uh yeah and the constant black and black and white symbology of

all that stuff is very obvious but I do I do love uh a lot as as well so I don't know I think we're barreling to the end here let's take a look at my notes here and see if there's um much before we before we get into notes can we take a quick little break yeah uh I can I can make this quick and then we can do that before oh no no I don't want to rush it yeah I just yeah I wanted to take a little review let's let's walk our ppk it up we'll be right back okay we're back welcome back everybody

you are your host James and we got some news we're gonna talk about some reviews what if this is my voice the whole time oh my goodness can you imagine uh can you imagine a dagger map that was cool with the the fire and the yeah I don't like I don't like you know what it made me think of is that uh no was it the rise of Skywalker yeah I was like wow it's so convenient rise of Skywalker is so much worse but it is a dagger map situation I understand they're both

dagger map situations but then it is so much worse I like I just love the I don't know the there's always threes there's a lot of threes of things and the three and then there's in the middle and then they look up at the stars when they're there and like oh Shabala's in the middle of out there too I love how much you love this movie it's the best I feel like a beryk by soul it's rough out here folks but if there's any for found lovers make sure you give us some love out there or give

me some love for my birthday it's my birthday pick it's your birthday yeah there's a breaking bad actor he's cool I like his voice a lot even though he doesn't really speak and breaking bad and you know better call so you know better call so um yeah the candles as the stars the ring holder that she has in the my con in like the Spanish Inquisition scene that she gives him she unhooks the little ring is I just love that little details is so great and then he's got you mentioned I think

before we recorded the little pouch that he carries it smells her hair and stuff like that too and then I just love when he smells it there's just like that bright white vision of her each time he he gets that scent um death as an act of creation yeah there's just those those big moments of dialogue that I that I like that are very heady and how they speak of things but yeah I'm all here for it um the silent walking shot after he goes to the hospital to visit her

I think is something that is yeah is is artsy and cool in a way that you get his his mood you know you remember that where he's walking out the ambulance is going by it's all silent you just hear his footsteps and then you see and you see like the sparks from people doing construction and you just don't hear any of it and you just and you just walk over it gets run over I don't know just like that something so gnarly has happened to you or something's traumatic has happened to you

and everything just kind of washes out I like uh sound design choice and even when he's yeah and then he's in like the elevator I think to the hospital the other time and he's like just looking at the pattern of the elevator elevator stuff like yeah it's just artsy stuff that's able to hold on things that's not this is a crazy comparison but stuff like I don't know like Michael Bay or shit like that or it's just like we gotta cut because that means it's better if we have more

cuts that means it's a better thing and it's the it's some some courage to it's me and yeah and show these uh yeah kind of obscure things that are just there to kind of be a flavor um the x-ray shot where like he's they show him the x-rays like because they're still a tumor and then goes through the x-ray and it shows his face kind of change of scenes still seeing the the tumor there there's a really quick creative things like that that are they're so fun death is the road to

ah yeah and then the third eye at the end yeah it's I like the first half of this movie at least I was just sitting there and just taking it all and I was like oh I should probably write some stuff down because as it was happening it was just like yeah I know I know this so well it just is like a part of me now and so this is uh this has been that conversation of just like hard to rip look at it as a fucking movie even you know it's it's just a it's a part of you right no and I mean yeah

absolutely I mean first and foremost that absolutely we all have those movies and then also too I mean you made salient points about why you enjoy the what this movie is about that's great yeah I and I think we both understand each other side this is I think there's been a good convo I think we should hear from some of these critics and audiences that we've that have brought us here today from the rotten tomatoes it's a 53 percent from the critics say 53 rotten

sneaky doop doopey doodoo and a 74 percent from the audience uh freshy fresh for and you know yeah artsy kind of movie it was artsy fartsy uh sort of movie and the audiences are coming out for it but let's hear some critics we'll start with Roger Ebert two and a half out of four I will concede the film is not a great success too many scenes of blinding lights too many transitions for their own sake abrupt changes of tone for Roger Ebert just a little blurred from there

Michael Atkinson from sight and sound it's difficult to recall another American film that in pursuing a passionate and personal vision goes so maddingly uproariously wrong Peter Bradshaw guardian there's a strange deadness in the film together with a callow self-importance and self pity which become more stultifying with every minute that passes there's a part of me that agrees with that yeah Matthew Layland BBC.com first the good news the found is only 97 minutes long now the bad that's

97 minutes of rampant metaphysical cod swallow I'm gonna look up cod swallow it's not true we're getting a cod swallow look up here and then we're also gonna get a pronunciation brandini if you're curious I'm gonna I'm gonna see how you pronounce it make sure I got it right cod swallow where's the definition 1920s and old sense overly talkative woman gossip probably an alteration of cod walloper person who deals in or handles fish also foolish person the current

sense was popularized and possibly coined by British writers Alan Simpson and Ray Galton in the comedy series Hancock's half hour in the late 1950s you can see the use over time for quad cod swallow started in the fifth 1950 and had a big big rise in 2019 wow huge rise wow okay wow I think that's a right load of old cod swallow as an example let's hear him say it cod swallow up cod swallow cod swallow cod swallow cod swallow say nana die the doda chode doda jody all right

well now we got there let's do maybe one or two more of these critics Keith Phipps AV club oh wait no no no let's not do that one uh but uh uh Anthony Lane New Yorker the movie may have significant truths to impart although I have my doubts but it feels too inexperienced too unworldly to have earned the right to them and we finish off with Joe Morgan Cern from Wall Street Journal a tagline has been affixed to the campaign what if you could live forever and it has a

certain rent at residence especially after seeing the film which makes 96 minutes seem like an eternity me I'm Joe Morgan Stern I'm Joe Morgan and I'm gonna be premiering my years stand up at the comedy store just weekend if you want to come by I'm just Morgan Stern on Morgan Stern can you imagine if there was a street called Morgan Stern that'd be great oh my gosh let's hear some positive audience reviews my people see what they have to say from Merriam Tahirpour

five stars absolute beauty this movie resonates with me in an unexplainable way and over and over I come back to it to experience once more and every time it teaches me something new in fact it helped me accept my mortality in a way that hundreds of books or therapy sessions could never do it's a must-watch but in the right time of your life if you're looking for a straightforward movie or a popcorn movie it's definitely not the right choice for you at least I have to say

Clint Mansell did an unbelievable job composing soundtracks of this movie really really breathtaking holy shit from Vivimus Aeternum five stars masterpiece this is the only film I would call perfect in every way soundtrack absolutely beautiful acting powerful real emotionally gripping no movie has hit me as hard as this spiritual biblical life changing and a true testament to the never ending force of love that transcends time and space this movie healed something inside of me wow

I've watched this over 10 times and every time I learn something new or see a new perspective some people won't get this film it took me a few times to understand it fully but sadly some people are also NPCs dear and air and off he is a genius wow calling out people as NPCs yeah wow Jesus let's go to Carlton McGee another five star found it's dope the movie depicts human life beginning as stars the movie is multi-layered but in my opinion the two important takeaways are in

order for one to experience life one has to learn to accept death and reincarnation these characters live through many incarnations it wasn't until the sacrifice occurred that Crio understood that life doesn't exist without death once you're incarnated time begins your fate is sealed Crio spent his life trying to change what is inevitable rather than accepting the reality we will never return to the ben ben or the garden of Eden it has been said that Adam tried to get back to Ben

Ben in hopes the most high would grant him mercy but upon his death was buried with three seeds placed under his tongue from the tree of life peace how is it how is it spelled just Ben Ben to Ben Ben or the garden of Eden oh Ben Ben is a creation myth ancient ancient religions there you go Ben Ben was the mound that arose from the primordial primordial waters new upon which the creator deity attuned settled the ben ben stone is the topstone of the pyramid it is also

related to the obelisk god Ben Ben cod swallowp we're on a roll today this is something Carlton McGee I just the fountain is dope I love that great way to start uh let's do yeah like me one or two more here yeah from yeah keep it going I mean yeah this is I will tell you now if you go I'm the google reviews were a little more tame because if you go on letterbox I will say you hit that five star review button there are legit essays from people that go on for like pages about you just like whole

treatments of of the philosophy of this movie you know it's something that I cannot get into here but if you are curious it's there's some real love from people for this for this movie uh from Demos Lara's five stars this is a movie that has ideals about life about death about contemplation of meaning about happiness and sadness about winning and about loss about the struggle to find answers is hard to digest and follow and it needs empathy compassion understanding and in some cases the right

age to understand it cinematography is top notch everything just fits is a piece of art uh maybe one more let's let's try one of these uh maybe a shorter letterbox and if there is one uh take a look um yeah here we go from aid five stars dang it's one of those most visually and thematically stunning movies I've seen truly in underappreciated gem there are no words to describe this movie it can't even be compared to any movie in history it's in its own category hey piece of art

I'm in awe y'all help I don't know man but I think this is the movie that convinced Hugh Jackman really is a great actor Logan is quaking it's definitely 10 out of 10 wow these are the letterbox counter there's a different this different flavor flavor when you get into letterbox and I kind of I kind of love it um I think we got a a taste for the the fervent you know people are fervent if you will they're fervent they're blurring they're blurring they're swerving they're they're Durgan they're

they're everything everything you could possibly put on this movie is out there in this audience section uh and that I think makes like strengthens strengthens the idea that this was a good uh movie for this podcast and uh I think it definitely fits fits the bill and it's interesting to see a movie that in my mind is yeah as I even said as someone who likes it is pretentious and in a lot of ways like the audience coming out for it and those I those kind of ideas even

they say like oh interesting these are pretty lofty ideas but uh usually I don't know you're gonna hear that more from critics a little bit but this one uh it's it's an interesting movie this this one and people's reactions to it and uh yeah I think I'd like to hear what you have to say any final thoughts brandini and uh and it's cool yeah it's a it's interesting to me about the idea from that all the audience members again just the fact that

the audience members are the ones standing for it is amazing yeah because this is definitely a situation where you would for sure think it's the other way because critics are all about like introducing heady concepts that challenge people to think differently to look at the world differently whatever because those you know those are the movies that critics will always champion and be behind where this is transcends just an entertainment this has a voice this makes you think um but

but again what's interesting to me is the idea that the audience posits where if you don't like this movie you just don't get it and let me just let me just say I get this movie yeah I understand this movie oh yeah I understand the idea especially how clear it is in communicating those ideas and so it's just a little bizarre where I'm like everybody's like has to preface their reviews like if you don't get it then you you know it's like you're an idiot I'm like I get what's going on here and I

appreciate a fair amount of what it is making me think about this idea of very very in particular if I were to think about a scene that really got to me is unfortunately it doesn't spend a lot of time on it but anyways uh is Hugh Jackman realizing that it's almost like he in the present knows she's like going to die and that happens on in the back half of the movie and the realization that him working on the cure is robbing him of the time with her and how that is where you should

put your focus is not in trying to solve a problem but to enjoy the life that you're given and the movie does well to also communicate that in other parts where it's like in a very heady way with him drinking the circle of life or not the circle of life the tree of life you you're like almost prepped to believe oh he's going to drink this and almost become like superhuman or he's going to transform to this immortal being but instead the immortal being is just being part of the earth

and that's really interesting I love love love that idea because again my religious believes presently is like that's that's the god the god is that concept is that we're all connected and everything is a part of this thing and part of this living and breathing thing and I love that I clear visual communication that you think it's going to be this physical body that's going to exist past this but no it's actually you coming to home and coming back to what this living

thing that is going to outlive all of us and I love these ideas I really do but this is an interesting case for me where it is weirdly too heady and I had a hard time with getting on board with some of the pros of the movie because I felt like they only just presented them to me and didn't provide me with enough point of view from where why that's important or why that's in this movie and that really frustrated me because time and time again I'm like I'm wanting

something more out of you know maybe I know that I presented earlier in the conversation about knowing what other people are doing but I would actually now say is I would like to have seen more of their relationship beyond just him trying to solve the the cure and him just trying to solve her illness and having way more situations of them in slice of life stuff of like understanding better her perspective or coloring more or providing more context to her perspective

and to his perspective because it is this movie to my opinion's detriment is it is so narrow in like we're going to focus on just this death and overcoming death portion as opposed to also presenting life happening outside of this issue and I really found myself being like well I like the visuals of it I like the music of it but something about the story I'm having a hard time with and it's not again because I don't understand that the metaphys like the you know

the meta commentary or the bigger ideas that it's communicating I would actually like to see more of reality grounding how you overcome this inability to see what the truth of life is you know and yeah I just ended up having certain issues with that especially the like future version of himself where it is so clearly symbolism and has so little to do with like in my mind what would make this movie better is some type of connective situation maybe or some type of connective tissue between

him in the present solving I guess the like the dying thing and then what that leads him to shaving his head and being on a bubble by himself like all of that stuff I wanted more of that kind of character depth so yeah what I'm gonna do for this is I it's not like I hated this movie at all there are so many good things about this movie and that's why it was so fun for this conversation to hear more about somebody loving the themes of it because that is obviously what this movie is about

is really thematic very symbolism heavy and doesn't care too much about how that would relate to you as a person you have to mean it there which is cool which is interesting like it's forcing you to think and I would say by and large I would rather default to a movie treating its audience not like it's an idiot and like it's really worth sharing an idea and assuming that it might not work for some people but if you want to put in the effort to make it work for your understanding or how

pulling it into how you view life I have to commend it for it um I'm what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna split the difference between the critics and the audience and I'm gonna go with a 64 percent for me right on right on uh yeah all all great points uh yeah I mean what it what it comes down to if I had any not really like any response to that it just yeah it seems like uh different wanting of different things and in the movie and um this is one that I do have a as I mentioned a deep history with

and I don't have to rehash everything that I that I loved about it but I I do think that yeah you mentioned I do like the themes so I can go there like the themes of death and and how it does handle those things while it can be criticized as as at times schmaltz and melodramatic the basic thrust of it of of not cherishing the times that you have with the person that you love love and living in the present and and stop trying to fix things and and try to logically uh

in your own mind try to make it make sense or or have a have a solution to it the energy of Rachel Weiss which you said is I mean her performance really really drives what I think is is the positive message of of this movie is her whole character and the grace at which she has the ability to to die with dignity and uh and in the way that I I see as her choosing exactly how and even the the inability for Hugh Jackman to be there for her in all of the times that matter

most you can tell him kind of letting her down in some ways it doesn't dampen her spirit as well and that sort of way of living I think is inspiring to me I see myself uh as aspiring to be like her but then I see myself in a lot of ways being like a Hugh Jackman and and getting bogged down with the details of things and uh getting upset about uh why things have to be a certain way instead of uh living in that moment and and deciding what you do have control over which is that moment

that moment with the person I'm taking a walk or uh you know hearing you know hearing about her book instead of you know taking a call or whatever that is and those things I I agree they that there isn't a lot of uh extra extraneous sort of things that are color of life sort of things it really is meeting these people in the in a very dark moment of of end of her life and in the relationship and in that way it still is there is redemption there and and how she handles it and then the

lessons that he learns I think all come to fruition in that final moment of how the Conquistador's story ends exemplifies his arc of understanding death and the effect that she had on him and how he looks at it now and how he believes she would have wanted it to end in a certain way uh and then having that come to fruition in that way and then the the modern tale as well of him just planting a tree in the symbology there uh I get why you why you say that is enough for you and you don't need

much more than that the extra you know bubble and the tree thing is something that adds to this movie uh a flavor of the unexplainable and a flavor of the obscure and yeah super art housey sort of style of it but the themes in themselves and you know a lot of credit I give it a lot of credit I know uh is about the unexplainable in a certain way so it's like I don't know just having having him on this other futuristic journey could have been done in a in a fucking spaceship with

a crew with like a little fucking capsule with a tree that he you know brought from and it just would have been so like I don't know boring in my mind and and straightforward or it could have it could have explained explained that in a way that would have taken away the magic of it and uh the ability for the audience to meet at halfway or whatever I think is why so many people champion it and why so many people get defensive about it there's a lot of movies that we do people get very

defensive either it is maybe more of the audience side either way but because the critics are you know sometimes they're just like oh the peons or whatever don't don't fucking get how you know esteemed this is or something but for it to come from the audience I think it hits a nerve with those themes of life and death and uh it hit me and it will continue to be one that'll I'll revisit throughout my life and uh it washes over me in an emotional way in a in a way that uh yeah I don't

immediately think think of the a lot of things that Brandon mentioned uh in his review when I watch it because it is so much I'm the familiarity with it is so much but I really super duper cannot express this enough appreciate this conversation being able to talk about it with somebody that is able to kind of navigate those things that don't work for you because uh I think we both met in the middle in a lot of ways because uh I feel like I understand exactly a lot of the the problems here

that people have with it and to make a point that you make as well more credit given to it but I do think those limitations helped it out a little bit too where like I don't want to see a big fucking conquistador battle or whatever like maybe I want it to just be a little bit more simple and have him have air nobsky kind of work with what he's got rather than have him just a bunch of money and do whatever the hell he wants with Brad Pitt and click Cape Lynch yet uh but who knows for what this is

it works for me a lot uh and I'm gonna give it a wholehearted do 98 do 98 I fucking love this movie this is gonna this is like uh one of my favorite movies it really is straight up and uh the things about Hugh Jackman being like death a disease a disease and there's a cure is a big moment a big line and that's probably the 2% is probably gonna go down a little bit from I think just for for a little bit of just that that veering on a little bit

friction of too close of what's happening I like that there's a there's a there's a gap between what's going on but he just says it straight on where it's like like you're saying that that seems like a little a little much to take in but at the same time he delivers it very well and it is kind of like his whole thing as a as a character at then then in the bare essence it's just hard to hear him say it out loud I think just say I feel like this is one of your best reviews I just I feel like

so filled up with Joey filled up with emotion by hearing this um because at a regardless of our our opinions just hearing you talk it I'm giving it 100 continue you holy shit fuck it wow oh my god who cares death is a disease we need to cure it Brandon I'm on board now the death is the sorry I interrupted continue um no no no I yeah I I said my piece is like it just yeah again it was wonderful to just hear your explanation of why you

love this movie because it's not in no way did I ever feel like I needed to defend anything I just was like so it felt so good to just accept somebody talking lovingly about something and um I just I want to say that I appreciated that to be a part of this discussion same dude absolutely yeah this is I mean I think that's the beauty of art and I would hope Aronofsky would agree I don't think he's making movies to to have everyone be on board with what's happening and uh it's good to see it

in practice uh yeah not being on the same page about about something but this is that's what this podcast is for and I think yeah us being polarized makes it makes it pretty pretty fun uh and I hope it's been for for you as well because all of these movies are freaking polarizing and uh I hadn't really like investigated too much further and and uh I was worried that looking at some of you in the critics reviews I'm like gonna be like uh oh this is a bad movie oh no I was worried a

little bit like going through this process of like not only where's I gonna find out that other people didn't like it maybe maybe like yourself as well which you didn't hate it but you didn't love love a sort of thing but I was worried that that was gonna yeah that was gonna affect me but I still yeah I still find the enjoyment and I think that yeah it speaks to the the strength of of whatever whatever it's done to me and uh whatever movies that you folks have out there I'm sure you can

you can relate where you feel like you you hold on to it but I try not to get too defensive I yeah that whole sort of like well you just don't fucking get it like that just no and you never did that at all I mean yeah doesn't do anything for anybody poop who to those people that feel the compelled to include in there because that's again uh such a wonderful part of your review why I yeah I just really I feel like it's one of your best is this not defensive about it you're just focusing

on the fact that this movie speaks to you on a level that it just makes sense and that you're like accepted and you welcome it of like oh here's me thinking about this movie is getting me thinking about these things that I want maybe not like some sort of aversion to thinking about but being presented with them and and being almost forced to think about them you end up really enjoying that process and then yeah it's wonderful oh yeah I appreciate it brother I think I appreciate the

the discussion and it's I think one of yeah one of our best as well um you know and I I'm glad that there was someone to check me from getting to my own ass about this movie too of like I don't know I feel like it was two people that just like yeah and then remember when when this happened oh it's so great oh you know it's it's nice to have a have a different opinion it's not it's kind of boring when we're just constantly agreeing I'm sure sometimes but there's there's those episodes

out there too I think they can be fun to I think they're pretty great too I mean I added the thing is is that and we've kind of joked about this on some episodes is like even though this whole thing that we're doing is called polarized more often than not we're not polarized in our opinions about said particular movie and what's even more wonderful about this movie is even though we were had different opinions about it neither one of us and and to your point of thinking about how you

like you know are scared almost of like am I am I gonna be you know told how this movie is uh pooby-dooby snoopy like that's not the at the end of the day that is something that rings true about this podcast is that's not the point both of our vibes is that we necessarily because I and now I would almost want to revisit like things to do in Denver when you're dead is like when you were really polarizing of like needing to needing that sense of like needing to defend it and how

much that is present because I feel like more often than not we don't default to that like I have to uh that's true be heard and I have to make my point of like you know whatever I never really like you're wrong right if yeah if anything yeah again it'd be interesting to hear that what to do in Denver when you're dead because we're fat man I know we were polarized on but I just think about like with those movies though is like I know they suck so I don't feel that sense of needing to defend

it like it's either just we very interesting like this movie I know this is artsy fartsy bullshit I get it you're just like this movie is speaking my language and whatever that language is and I don't need to defend it and I as the your you know your friend don't ever feel like I have to necessarily be like hear what I'm saying I'm saying the right thing oh you know it's like no you don't get it or like the like the audience reviewers that need to just be like

if you don't get it then you're it's a failing on your part yeah or like that's the thing that you have to preface or make a point of is like it's like the strong thing right you're just bringing something to tear down 100 saying like there's yeah it's it's like setting up an argument in such a terrible way where you're like this movie is great and if you don't like it then you're the problem just talk about what you want yeah there's someone else down for their opinion yeah you can

just and I think more and more as yeah as we've gotten growing older it's just about sincerity and earnestly feeling one way or the other yeah if you earnestly feel like something is shit then you can have absolutely have that opinion and have that on your own has nothing to do with any anybody else and I catch myself sometimes too of wanting to have my own opinion so much that I try to I try to keep it out of my head as much as again until I partake with the

piece of art myself so I can feel like I have some sort of opinion myself but then there's other things too where it's like I kind of would like to hear some people's takes on this because I don't I'm having a hard time even parsing out my own feelings and hearing some takes it does it does help as well so I don't know yeah if this has made you change your mind about it any anybody out there listening then that would be that would be interesting I know I know when I listen to podcasts

about movies and stuff it it really helps me digest my own opinions and even if I disagree with the people talking about it it's like oh wow that is a take that I completely disagree with but it helps me understand my own opinion about like I think this other way 100% and we've and we've talked about certain podcasts that have done that usually by and large well but but there we've made a point to have conversations about podcasts that do this where

you're like what I'm saying and like this idea of you're not trying to hear or you're like there's this agenda there you're you're it's a take there's a hot take you got that you just got to get out there yeah right like I'm gonna say this just I know again like the audience reviews is like I know people aren't gonna like this and you know what those people are dumb for not liking this like no compensate and and that's literally the worst also here in podcasts and we've talked about certain

episodes and of certain podcasts where when they do that it's the it sucks because yeah it's this content for the last Jedi episode you'll fuck you yeah I'm sure you guys would probably hate me that whole time you maybe me I don't know yeah one of us another polarized episode but to leave this I yeah like almost speaking to the to our listeners is like I hope a thing that you take away from this podcast and why we do this is because we care about each other's opinions

because we love each other and we can have different opinions and that doesn't mean that we're being attacked or our whole self-worth is wrapped up in it it is so much that it's so much more enjoyable to be in a friendship and to care about somebody to be like like what you said and I've told you this of like one of my kind of like I don't know things that I value so much in life is have a different opinion it's just about being passionate about it if anything like

you yeah you shouldn't get wrapped up in the opinion is different if anything just like yeah encouraging people to feel comfortable and to feel safe to express how interested they are about something and to hear that and to accept it that's what matters it's not about needing to change somebody's mind it's about what a wonderful gift that somebody provides you is a different perspective on a thing and again you don't have to accept that opinion but to hear it I feel like

just provides so much value in itself and it doesn't need to be a hot take every time it doesn't need to be something that you know it can be a nuanced measured sort of opinion that I feel like we we hope to strive for we're like yeah a lot of our ratings and our feelings are yeah more I feel like measured in terms of like trying to understand the movie itself hearing out both sides and and coming out with their own opinion of is is the formula essentially of this of our

podcast and and what we try I don't know I feel like we try to employ here is just like we we talk about the stuff we hear from other other people and then you know we get our own opinion because I feel like that's almost the process of watching a movie is that you'll watch it and then maybe you'll go on look at some reviews and then you'll talk about it with your friends later and there's certain takes that you hear from people that maybe you'll adapt into your own

version of as as well and I think that sort of discussion is is what makes art in general so so fun and if you are so clandestine like set on one take of it and everyone else is wrong sounds like a boring way to live and sounds lame to you know not be able to change your opinion on something I mean it makes me think like promes I have such a hard like hard history with that movie or just like I feel different about every time like is this movie great is this movie bad I

just don't know I just sometimes I watch him like god this movie's awesome other times I'm like god this is so stupid it's like what's happening but it it can be both things at the same time it's like and I think it's it's worth it gives space for that if anything I we would encourage just like a thing can be stupid at the same time as providing joy and interest in things like it doesn't have to be one note that's not what we strive for here and I would just in in my mind a

perfect like situation for this podcast finding somebody is for what you're saying is somebody who's like I just watched a movie and I have a feeling about it and I want to hear other people's opinion of it but it isn't so much to validate it's just to hear air it out and to air it out and just go like because if anything disagree with us on all of this shit and if that helps you work through your love and understanding of something then I feel like we won yeah and I'm sure there's

like plenty of especially in this movie that either people love or hate it would like you miss this you miss that and every discussion is different and you could have a whole podcast just on air and air and ask you can have a whole podcast on just the fountain I mean there's people who wrote whole essays and you could read those too but I think this has been an awesome example of what this podcast is about the discussion in this movie itself and he himself I think is polarizing

that that damn air nofsky but you mentioned this guy earlier one of the guys I think our guys around this this time and another one of those guys is pta so we thought we jump into pta town little paul thomas anderson with one of his polarizing movies it's rare to have a polarizing pta but here it is folks it's inherent vice inherent vice story in walking phoenix is a critically favored movie at 74 percent by the critics it is an audience panned movie at 53 percent

poopy doopie snoopy we're jumping into one would say maybe another artsy fartsy sort of situation we shall see and I'm very excited yes this has been a joy very looking forward to next time very much so is there anything else that we miss before we wrap up here no I mean definitely raid and review please like it it means yeah apple podcast rate review subscribe on there write a little blurb or something and give us a give us your feelings and give us some notes yeah we would

love it uh polarize the pod at gmail.com you can send anything else you would like there we're streaming live twitch.tv slash polarize pod uh if you want to see our beautiful faces uh yeah we got a youtube channel as well polarize pod uh you can stream the podcast from there however you like it but uh we hope you guys have enjoyed yourselves I do every time brandini the great brandini my conquistador it's been a true pledge my friend true pledge and uh I'll see you next time for

in here advice goodbye