Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Welcome to the podcast. It's your trusty host James with another polarized episode. It is polarized podcast. We're talking about polarizing movies according to rotten tomatoes. Audiences love it, critics hate it or vice versa. Everyone disagrees on how they feel about these movies. And this one, ladies and gentlemen, is a legendary polarizing movie in my mind. It has seen it all every type of opinion has already been laid out for it. We're coming in years, years late. And

we're bringing it back from the dead to revive it and discuss it yet again. And see how we feel about it. It's standing at a certified fresh from critics 91% on rotten tomatoes and poopy doopy 42 from audience. Let's get right into it. Let me bring in the man of the hour. Ladies and gentlemen, Darth Brandini. Yeah, screw you. Yeah, man. This movie, I love that. I love that idea of you just rolling up into into the meeting of of the

dark forces of the universe. You're so yeah, what's up, motherfucker? Yeah, fuck you. Wow, that guy is really fucking evil. He's like, yeah, flipping everyone up. Oh, big time. That's how I feel. What kind of power if you like, like you start with that? Like what is the power of his middle finger? My insides or strip with my middle finger. That's it is like a weird that's like a road rage Jedi mind trick that people are trying to play on

each other. Yeah, it is. Isn't it? Yeah, well, there's just what body language is, is just force Jedi mind tricks that we've all in social norms and all the way we communicate with each other brand is really totally right. They're just making noises at each other and people get it. Yeah, right. God. Let's just let's just meditate on that. I just if you guys haven't been to this podcast, we start every podcast with thinking just a moment of meditation. Yeah, moment of time

spent. It's just this is there's so much to get into. And it's a little overwhelming. I don't have to get into everything. We don't. Everyone already did. We can just be we can voice our opinions for sure. Yes, we'll go through it. But I'm glad you're giving me the opportunity to feel however I want to feel about this because I kind of need the space on because I feel a lot of things and we're gonna like spoiler alert, we're gonna patently disagree, I think on a lot of things. I think so.

Let's just want to start it on a nice happy note. Yeah, let's start it on a nice happy note by saying, Yeah, today is a good day. I'm, you know, always. Yeah, I'm man. Let's talk about let's start. Yeah, we're gonna start with Force Awakens because you and I saw that movie together. Do you remember that? We did? Yeah, I do. Yeah, absolutely. I remember it. Yeah. And I remember enjoying it. Um, actually, you know, so more like more so yeah, more than I thought I would because I wasn't

really a big fan of the prequels. Even though Yeah, I don't know. It's just it's these properties are so fascinating that we're more like Lord of the Rings guys and Star Wars guys. I would I would qualify myself a little bit more. I would say property out there. But those three Lord of the Rings movies I've nerded out over more than anything, I think. Yeah, I know. I agree. Yeah. But the thing is, is I've seen every single one of these movies, most of them in the theaters,

which I can't really say for Yeah, every franchise. I mean, this is just it's something that's always like, okay, well, we're gonna go see that Star Wars movie. You know, we got to go see that Star Wars movie more. It's an event. It's an event. And at a point, it's like, it's like a weird obligation. Yeah, absolutely. Definitely. So and to the end, really, because of this system, because this was, you know, movies like this would come out, you know, every, you know, every so

often, not every so often, it would come out in a string. But we are just we've been in this time period of so much Star Wars content all the time. And I'm just so incredibly fatigued on it, just like with all the Marvel stuff, because Disney scooped it up at the same time as Marvel, and they've just pumped it out, man. It's it's yeah, I was always it is always so bitter to because I'm like, we get a James Bond movie every fucking nine years or whatever, which would you prefer,

though? Yeah, would you want something like this, where they're just pumping out? Shit. Well, I don't know. Maybe not this is the best example. But like, these three movies as a whole is bullshit, man. Like, as a trilogy, like we can agree on that, like how they how they structure this this whole thing did not pan out, I think even how they wanted to and it just blows my mind how you can have so much power at your fingertips and resources and the story just eludes

you in such a way. And in my mind, it is from a you know, people like we love James Bond as a franchise have been around forever. And we know that there's movies that fall prey to I'm sure they sit around at the boardroom. They're like, okay, like for this bond, like, what do we need? Like what before we even start with the story? Like, what does it need in this? And they'll start like a checklist of like, okay, it needs this, it needs that and needs this. And then we can

fasten the story around these tent poles of things that the fans want and need. And that's where things get kind of dicey. And this is an interesting one where the fans fucking hate it and critics love it. And I think it's because it's removing some of those tent poles and been trying to subvert and deconstruct things. But like, this is the sequel to a movie it's already establishing so much. So it's not really the one to be doing that. It's so unfortunate. And the planning of it

is just still is so silly to me how it panned out this way. Yeah, because I mean, yeah, because this is now Disney property and they have already acquired Marvel who has successfully and really the only only production company, property owners and like operators of franchises that successfully did a multi movie arc that people love and respect, because it was able to hit all the beats,

incorporate all of these properties together in order to tell a pretty cohesive story. Sure, there were like some that were like, you know, it kind of was like some, some are not so great, others were great, you know, so there was a little unevenness movie by movie. But I mean, I think they brought it home in their like overall arc really well. I just recently watched again, the you know, end game and infinity war in your in your life. Yeah, those are amazing for their

their scope. It doesn't. Yeah, because it just and then also to allow it like it set itself up so well to just pay off like a slot machine throughout it, where it's just so like, you know, so fun to be like, Oh, yeah, like, yeah, uh, this person. Oh, yeah, we did this in that movie. And now they're here and all that stuff. And to then have a pretty clear point about what the villains purposes have and be relatively nuanced and interesting and accomplish it. And yeah, so like,

you know, that is the villain accomplishes his plan to I love that aspect. I love that. And infinity were staying strongly for me for having the and everyone already kind of like knew that was going to happen. Like there's going to be the snap and people are going to get and it's just like so satisfying to see these characters that they're so precious about just like off a bunch of them all at once and then end the movie that way. And you know, they're coming back and

they do. And, and Tony doesn't make it but right. That moment was was bold and that's like an empire strikes back. You know, which the ending was not something that was like uplifting necessarily was still like, it was ominous. And you find out the twist of the of the faja departure. And that leaves you I don't know wanting more and looking forward to the conclusion and how successful Yeah, like Return of the Jedi or what's the what's the third prequel I like I like that

one. Damn it. Oh, yeah, yeah. Revenge of the Sith, Revenge of the Sith or rise of the Skywalker, how that how successful those ones are at completing the trilogy is is fascinating. But overall, yeah, I'm just saying like the the sequel, it's it's it's nice when in movies in general, when it trusts you well enough to be like, the story's not finished yet. And you're just going to have to sit tight for a bit on this note and and and sit with it and trust people will will be

able to handle it. And yeah, maybe two towers could fit there. There are two. Yeah, absolutely. That ending frustrated me and if I can grab a trail one more time. Sure. Sure. Sure. I don't have to know you didn't want sure. Yeah, no, I really did not care for those. Those are frustrating. Like it's called Desolation of Smaug. Oh, right. And it ends with like the dragon escaping. Oh, it's coming towards the town is like, oh, the Desolation is coming. It's called

Desolation of Smaug. And that's where that movie ends of like, oh, the dragons lose. Oh, it's coming to that town. Oh, no. And it's like, and then it ends. And then that's where the the battle, the five armies or starts with a dragon destroying a town and just battles the rest of the movie. And that's like a Matrix of Evolutions. A lot of battles, too. I'm glad we're covering everything and we cover that movie. Let's see. So let's find let's find the thread there as to what what works

about those and what doesn't work about those. Because I think that came to mind when you brought up the the original Star Wars series Empire Strikes Back. Something that stuck out to me is why I think the reveal of Darth Vader being Luke's father is great and such a wonderful reveal that is a can be the connective tissue that carries you to the third and final installment is because that doesn't

really have anything to do with the overall plot. It is all in service of character development for Luke because he is on a journey that we're following along across three movies that makes that it makes relatively clear sense of like, you know, the the classic the hero's arc. And that is just a aiding and abetting in Luke realizing that, you know,

he could easily be his father if he were to choose a different path. But now he is then presented with the option like he's presented with what his reality could be if he were to go down that path.

And then he chooses the he chooses the opposite or chooses a different path. And then that's what the third one is all about is really just kind of a reconciliation of who he's going to be as the next leader of the Jedi, which then gets us into this because he is really kind of leaving the by and large where Return of the Jedi ends and give or take, I don't know, probably like, well, maybe like realistically the amount of time since Return of the Jedi, since Return of the Jedi,

right, like in actual time. Yeah, if you look at him, he's aged real real time and time and very much this movie. And I'd be interested in almost like to go to like discuss in the kind of like the at least the first half of the movie, the people are kind of saying, first half of the movie, the people are kind of separated and yes, of course. So if we can kind of hone in on the the Luke and in rape, rape part. Yeah, right. But before we do that, though,

I should have been before I'm going to go. Oh, yeah, go for it. We will know. No worries. We'll be right back. So, yeah, we're back. We're talking race. Yes, we're let's get right into the like really what sets the tone for the movie. My necklace came in. I'm well, yeah, dude, look at that necklace is very dope. Can you run me through some of those terms? I have a. So I have a money stack, a slice of pizza and then a peace sign. Cool. Can you like

add more? Are you going to add more stuff or is pretty much done deal? I could. I don't know. We'll see. That's cool, man. But yeah, we were I was kind of like talking about we are back. I was talking about the kind of parallel that, of course, and that was like the first thing I told you. I remember when we saw Force Awakens driving home, I was like, that was a new hope. Re-re-re-repurposed, you know, and for better, for worse. But you it's the beats are so similar

and much the same way. This is Ray going to get mentored by and by a hermit living in a swamp, you know, which is I guess it's a very similar island sort of thing. But yeah, Yoda to Luke, Luke to Ray. And that is that chunk of the movie, which is one of my favorite parts is the whole Luke Ray stuff. So I was curious what you felt about that. Yeah, I felt very bad about it. Yeah, I did not care for a lot of how Luke is characterized in this movie. Is that something

that's that's a safe assumption? Yeah, I take issue with it as well, because even my

dad wants a good issue with it. Yeah, as well as he should, because it really like the way that the Force Awakens leads it up is it's just he's such an important person for the overall objective to eliminate like eliminating the First Order, which is the uprising, which there was a lot of things at play that were really fascinating about this new world building that they did, because it kind of just makes me think of, you know, this reality, the reality that we live in of this all right,

insurgents and neo-Nazi ism, and fascism just becoming, you know, more of a like, I'm for I got to hate saying it, but popular. And so, you know, having the First Order be these, you know, stormtrooper, Nazi looking people like that they always kind of represented, you know, that first movie is really just about somebody that comes from, you know, meager

beginnings, just like in the classic series. Yeah, ends with her being like now she has a better understanding of what her purpose is, at least in the sense of I'm going to seek out somebody who is going to be able to guide me better on this journey than I'm on. And then your whole point of the first movie was finding the whole point of the first movie was to find Luke. That's all the Force Awakens was about. And then to get there and then immediately treated as

a joke as a as a like that's that gives a chin. Yeah, that's what you do. You do it do as well. I so I thought about that. I'm glad that you brought that up because I did think about that because when Luke does in the original series meet Yoda, he his whole like energy Yoda's energy about this is that you're building up all of these people your like you have all these preconceived notions in your head about what Jedi Master should be, what it means to be a Jedi and he just is,

you know, tear the past down. That's what Kylo wants to do. That's what that's what Yoda is saying. And that's what this movie is is theming is kind of representing as well. And that's something that I'm riding that wave of what it's it's telling me in the in the text and they are

using Luke to prove this point. And a lot of people take issue with that, which is exactly what the people in the movie are so frustrated with Luke about is like, you're this you're this great hero, you're this great legend, you've done all these great things, you got to be this way, you got to do this thing. And that's exactly what all these fucking Star Wars fans are saying to like, oh, Luke, you're this you're the hero of my childhood. This is who you are. You're the hero incarnate,

Joseph Campbell, incarnate hero of like, what you need to be. But it's just so much more fascinating to deconstruct him as a man and his faults and failures, even so much so as having the force power enough to see this darkness in the student that he was training and have and have a fault like he fucked up. And he was caught in that moment. And that story how they change it three times is interesting. But they he's he's caught in that moment and things fall around him. But

he had the intuition correct in a lot of ways. But then his choice in the matter and how he showed up like that could have affected it as well. And that could have been the main thing that made Kylo evil. But overall, just to get back to Luke, I like how he and that's what he's trying to tell her the whole time of like, it's it's just he's and he's embarrassed and he's going out going out to be a hermit because I think he is embarrassed of his actions and everything. And he does feel

like responsible. And I just I don't know, like to have somebody that's just going to come in and be exactly who he's been all throughout the original trilogy, it's been however many years and everybody's all separated like Luke and Leia and Han. And that fracturing is more interesting than just like all of them are still together doing their thing on the Millennium Falcon, running

around like as they always have been. Like I like the fact that it's able to echo Empire Strikes back with Yoda and also put a spin on the lore and the and the classic character that is naturally going to upset people. And I totally get why people would be upset because they're taking something they love and being like, it doesn't fucking matter. Let's burn it all down. And you're Yeah, it's like you you put too much faith in these in these legends.

When they are just men and there's this I read the Dune books recently too. And that was like kind of Dune Messiah kind of did that the second Dune book after like all the Paul stuff like and I was nerding out about that and I don't know. That's my take on it. But I heard that. No, that's fair. Yeah, that's kind of echo. Yeah, through the critics and if that is the stance that you- If Lord of the Rings came back and Vigo was like a shitty king, I'd be like, wow,

that's you better do that well because that's an interesting way to do that. And for people to be like, yeah, you got to really do that well if you're going to take that big of a swing and it's a big swing. But I just prefer that than just doing the same shit over again. And that was that was just more interesting to me. So that's that would be my piece about the the Hamel Luke stuff. But that's fair. Yeah, I because I understand that that's the side that's the side that I am

at odds with. And that is the mentality that is the counterpoint to me being like, man, it really like because immediately I'm like, oh, man, it really sucks that he doesn't give a shit about anything and that we spent all spent time, you know, really overcoming great odds to get here. And then it's completely devalued. And there isn't any there isn't any gravitas or any like importance placed on, you know, the ability to get there to.

I don't know, also, too, with so much time spent on that island, you know, how little he has thought about all the other options and it's just, you know, really let kind of pessimism reign. Yeah, be like his his whole it's ugly. Yeah, like his whole character now is just a bitter old man because it just really flies in the face of what he knows. Like, yeah, I get it. You're like, I get a part of the point that, you know, you got to up your own ass. And that was your detriment. You were

like, this is all important. It has to be this way, yada yada. And then Kylo comes around and shakes that like foundation or goes against him. And that creates a rift and a problem of like, oh, right. Like, I'm not just training Jedi, I'm potentially training Sith here, and really coming to terms with nature versus nurture sort of thing of like, was he always like that? Did I instill that final, you know, the final act of me possibly threatening to kill him? Did was that the final

thing that turned him over? Or was he already going that way? And it's the that's a good. That's a really good question, though, because I mean, his parents are Han Solo and Leia. So what do you think was and grand grand grand daddy is what do you think the draw was the draw for like for Kylo to be evil? That is really seemed like it. It definitely handled. It'd be great

if the movie got into some of that. Yeah, because it made reference to it. But I was like, oh, this is really shitty way to do this because what if the Knights of Rem and stuff, all that originality in the Knights of Rem and stuff, all that origin shit would be like to get a little bit more of that. Right. Like who are who are these other ostensibly right like other. Well, he said that acolytes, right? Had already turned him, I believe, is now I'm remembering is what he said of like,

like, Snoke already turned him. So there was no hope. And then like, yes, he's a scared little little boy. But then even Ray says to Luke is that he's not gone. Like your downfall there was to assume that there was no other path right other than what you envision being, you know, his, his end or whatever. The fable legend, the fallible hero is just such I don't know, that's a dynamic, interesting concept for me. But to apply it to Luke Skywalker, yeah, leading after this

first movie, it is a little bit of a fuck you. I'm sure in a lot of these fans minds, and doesn't really jive with the trilogy and kind of doesn't at all. That's the part because the first and third one, JJ Abrams, like he's trying to wrap up in the third one, like what he set up in the first and that Ryan Johnson takes a detour in this one to not really cover. And I believe that he was going to have another trilogy to himself. I'm not sure if that's still happening. But I don't think

so. But maybe I don't know. But it is so interesting, because we've I think we mentioned this before, but then there's been this thing for Marvel. And this is kind of a really good example of it, too, right? Because Ryan Johnson going into directing a Star Wars movie. I mean, God, he had directed what two movies. This is after like Looper, right? Looper. This is after Looper. And then before that was Safety Not Guaranteed, which is such an incredibly small movie,

which it deals with time travel. And there's that's just funny, because both of those do have sci fi elements. So I guess that's why you kind of like get him into the conversation. But the point I'm making is, is that these major studios, and Marvel being the biggest perpetrator of it, have gone with this like process and, you know, methodology. And I think mainly because of a lot of like 2000s faux pas that we had, where you're just like, oh, we're just going to get a

well known action director to come in and do these movies. And then they end up being like really middling, really bloated, expensive, not not something that sticks around. It's like people

go to see it in the theaters, but then they forget about it the second they leave. And Marvel, again, in particular was like, for these movies, we're going to pick these more artistic directors or indie directors and give them the because like, and this movie is also an amazing example of it is like, sure, Ryan Johnson's the director, but there's so much about the production of this movie that is like on rails, like you are going to get a movie that looked like this almost irrespective

of Ryan Johnson, at least the action sequences and a lot of the other like background stuff of the way that it looked is like you're going to get like there. This is a well oiled machine. It was interesting that he even incorporated lens lens flares. And I was wondering if JJ Abrams like he got to get a get that lens flare in motherfucking. It's just not Benicio like a prison or whatever like fucking can't see. Benicio in this another just man, they must just have

a good time there. They're there. I they just I mean, obviously, Benicio loves money. So why would he want to fuck up a good thing? But it's just funny how he's in so much like of these like he's part of like the Disney's days and he's in the collector or whatever. And he's able to be in a Star Wars movie and movies with him is just he looks like he's having so much fun in those roles and he's doing such a great job as well of like being like understanding the assignment and

knowing like, I can get pretty weird with this and choose some of the scenery. There's a lot of scenery here. Like I make say, I could say out of the shit that he's given. I mean, that stutter and there's a moment where you know that wasn't written in the script. Oh, no. Oh, no. I love this. You know, it is like I got I got a couple of things that I'm bringing to the table and then people are just like, get out of the way of Benicio because he's just he's making choices. Do you think

blip blap bloop was in the script? Because that's one of my favorite moments. I mean, what I know about that he just like throws that he like reads it once and throws it away and is just like, okay, I got this. It's really great how I'm not precious. He gives it because yeah, like sometimes Ray and Finn are just and that's who their characters are. It's like, this is the most important moment of my

life. And it's like, and it's worse. Like I am the hero of this story and I'm going to do the right thing. Right. And it's like so flat and to have this incredibly and that's why like movies like or the shows like Mandalorian and and or are doing so well. You see these seedy sides of of Star Wars and I think this one taps into it as well. But before I get to some of that stuff, I wanted to talk about the other because there's the other portion that's kind of starting at the beginning

is the Poe Holdo. Yeah. Who else? I mean, Finn is around. Not my favorite either. Yucky. Yucky. That's not my favorite. Yeah, it's like such a weird pacing. The all of this stuff is like such it's kind of just feels strangely drawn out and the fact that the ships and everything is like it doesn't. And and the thing that really for whatever reason, I can't put my finger on it. Like hold those character just doesn't work for me. No, it does. It does not read properly and I

don't know what it is. And I understand like maybe the impetus is like trying to put this other new spin on like we're not going to have these trigger happy fucking pilots like Han Solo that are going to save the day with a single thing like we all have to stick together and do this as a community sort of thing. But the way that she comes across is like just unclear about how I as the audience member should feel about her. And maybe that's because she has a secret.

That's the thing, right? She has a secret that she isn't telling anybody about. And so we're always just like a little unsure. What exactly is the secret of like the secret is that she knew that she was going to kill her. So I like that's the thing. Hold those that I'm fucking calling it. Right. Right. Oh, I never see a whole slice of the game after fucking twenty three ninety six. Holy shit. But that in particular, that was the coolest thing. But leading up to it, like I

honestly hate that, though, James, that that that happened. That was that was the it doesn't save her character for me. I still don't know. Yeah. No, she's like with her and Iraq because I thought it would just win way more interesting. And this is where I will I would try to. I know everyone likes to rewrite this movie, but I just thought and when I watched it the first time, I'm like, she's fucking evil. She's for sure. Sure. Yeah. Like she's for sure. Like a mole or

something like that. And Poe is going to like figure her out and then Poe's going to do the slice or some shit. Yeah. So she's actually the smartest person in the room. And she's got a Mars figure it out. Hero for the movie. And it's like I didn't feel. Yeah. And then like Leia comes back and then she's immediately immediately shoots Poe. And yeah, all that stuff. And then Leia coming

back was like, does not work for me as as it made me very bad. Yeah, that doesn't work for me. One of my biggest, biggest fucks like this is I hate this the most because we had found out going into this that Carrie Fisher had passed away. Right. So there was a lot of hubbub, you know, leading up to this of like, oh, how are they going to deal with Carrie Fisher passing away? This is, you know, obviously they had planned for her to be in, you know, all three of these movies, yada, yada.

And it was incredibly shocking to see this movie and go like, whoa, so they're going to kill her this way. Her son kills her. And like, we have to do that. Is it mattress side? Just both like. Right. Patricide, I think. That's for Han. And then is it mattress? Oh, yeah, that's. Oh, right. He's just. Yes. And that's like, wow, this guy's. Evil really do some shit. I love. We got it at some point. Yeah. Oh, my God. Can you put on a cowl?

Or something stupid? I hate it. This is for. Yeah. I the humor in this. OK, so just to back it up real quick before we get into it. We said we said our pieces. We got anything more to say about Leia, the Leia thing. Oh, yeah. Like I was I was I. It frustrated me so much that instead of actually killing her in that moment, which I think that's what they should have done, because they should have just killed her because then that adds so much like to.

Who Kylo is and what needs to be like dealt with from him, you know, what he has to deal with and what other people have to deal with him because of that to then introduce a force power we've never ever seen in the series of her being able to force fly through space was like I lost it. I almost fucking walked out of the theater when that happened, because not only do you just introduce something that is never like understood, explain whatever. You're also like, why bring her

back? She's not as an actress, not there anymore. Like why like you? It blew me away that you wrote her doing that and then to write her back into it drove me banana. It was confusing. I hate it so much. But OK, so the comedy that she shares with with Luke is very fine. Yeah, but it seemed like that's. That's to me is the is part of the reason to have that final thing with those those two, at least sharing sharing a moment. But who knows? Yeah, I totally agree with you're saying I have the same.

I have the same. You're talking about that. I mean, come on, don't give them a clear cut, beautiful ending. You want to subvert something, just be like, man, yeah, you know what people in your life fucking die and it's tough and you got to deal with it. Not this like force mirror image is bullshit that you go and say goodbye to everybody in such a buttoned up casual. Well, yeah, now I'm getting fucking. Error. OK, no, it doesn't.

It doesn't fully work for me. And then it just incapacitates her for a bit. You get hold of. Right. And then it just kind of is like stalling, stalling, stalling people like they're just keep shooting, keep shooting and kind of dragging it out. But what did you think? Speaking of like new force stuff, what did you think about the connection that Snoke placed upon them? He's like, it was me. I'm not going to say how I did it or why or when, but I placed the connection between you two.

It sounded like a broken record, but did not care for force phone calls. I kind of I liked it more. I wrote the note. This force phone call being had is dumb. I hate this. This is so stupid. I don't know why I liked it this time. I didn't I didn't like it as much the first time I saw it. And I was like, this is weird. But I think maybe because I knew it was coming. I was like, yeah, I was just more accepting to like the new stuff that he introduced in terms of force powers. And and it makes me.

And I mean, if I can go back to the Luke thing for a second, like what he says to Ray really hit home for me and what this movie is trying to say as well of like something about like the force isn't for the force isn't just for the Jedi. It's for everyone. So like the last Jedi, it's like it's a force of nature. It's tearing down the system, man. And given it to everybody, you don't need these books. It's like it's it's a language that everyone can can speak or whatever is, you know, whatever.

How many many chlorines that you might have? Yeah, throw that out the window. That's not a thing. Yeah, that's not a thing anymore. They're just like, yeah, just rewriting how dumb that is.

Just like a bunch of stuff that they were rewriting because they don't like again, I can't stress that I brought it up, but I can't stress the point enough about how fucking pissed off people are that the major plot point is shooting the ship in hyperspeed through the other ships because that just like really fucks everything up for people because then you're like, oh, well, now why haven't we always just like take us take like a ship,

a dummy ship without a person, a dummy ship and turn it into hyperspeed. And it's a missile. It's like a fucking, you know, it's yeah. Take it. Okay, let's get three ships. Put them in hyperspeed with no one on it. Shoot them towards the direction of the destroyers and call it a day. And it just like, and then, oh my God, how many fucking times I want to take a tally visually. It looked awesome. I'll give you that. It looks fucking that was enough for me. That was that was great.

Everything you're saying is made to that. But everything you're making is making sense and is completely logical. And yeah, just kind of like, I just don't care. I care enough because it looks like, oh, yeah, it's cool. Totally. But I mean, yeah, that's never. Yeah, they're never going to do that again. It's like that's sort of like, yeah. And fantasy movies were a big superpower will show it show itself. And it's like, well, why doesn't they just use that? Why don't they do it?

Why doesn't Green Goblin use those vaporizing grenades every time? And all the time. Exactly. Which turns out I'm not. Skellies. I don't I don't. Yeah, me personally don't want to get too hung up on that because I do agree with you. That visually was cool. It was cool that the way that it like the light cracked through stuff and then audio editing space and the audio and it was cool.

But like, man, also to how I want to take a note of like I did take a note of tracking through light speed is such a big deal. And I wanted to I should have taken account as how many times people were like, wait a minute, you can track. No, you can't track. Oh, like so many fucking people are like, wait, what? I mean, light speed, light speed tracking. What? No, you can't drag the light speed. And everybody just like understands that you can't try to light speed.

And then but it's like, well, if we destroy it, then they're going to track that other one. So we got to jump onto their ship and destroy their tracker. They had like two great links to explain that we got to go to to a casino planet. Can't abide. Yeah, I can't. Let's talk can't abide. Right. Yeah, that's the next thing. We're not missing anything, right? We get the intro to Rose and. Right. Rose introduction, I guess we could talk about because she is a and you know.

And then like her sister's connection, which also speaking of interesting things that happen in outer space to that. Let's do that. Drop drop dropping drop the bombs in outer space space. Is there those like magnets that are pulling? It's just like right. It hits that hatch and all of them just like were dropped to gravity. There would have to be pressure pushing them down because you could push them down and that would work because there's no gravity.

So like if there is a mechanism that is pushing them down, then sure. But the way visually, though, it looks like. It does look cool. They're just a bunch of like and the way that the ships are. Designed is they're like solely designed for. Yeah, bombers. Dropping bombs pretty into that. There's some schools. It's cool. New science about it. Oh, yeah. No, those are bombs that are just attracted to ships and. Right. Sure. They got those Sith magnets.

OK, so specifically about this that really drove me nuts from jump, which has got me in a mood every fucking time I watch this that drives me nuts is that we essentially start the movie off with a joke, a phone call. John, yeah, that humor doesn't work. A prank phone call is how we start the movie off. The humor is pretty rough and the one liners.

It's not a bad joke, but I think specifically my problem has always been with this and is always so glaring when it is done wrong in movies like this because it has been done like this in movies before that are really bad is. Tone. Let's talk tone. Talking tone right now is you just had a very witty repartee joke, which again, the joke's not bad. I don't mind it just shading on Domino Gleason in this movie. Cool shit on him. He looks, you know, yeah, good. It's kind of funny.

He's he's the leader of the bad guys like, yeah, shit on him. Like, I'm I'm OK with that. He's getting it from. But within. Three minutes, maybe five tops. We are now dealing with a lot of lost lives. OK, so. Joke lost lives. Those should be relatively far apart from each other. Not to say this movie has to be drab. Yeah, you should show the grass you make. Yeah, the super serious like I'm that's not what I'm getting at is like you can't have death in a movie and not have jokes. No, come on.

I mean, watch, you know, fucking in Bruges. I love in Bruges. That that gets very emotional, too, in those deaths. Absolutely. Of course it does, because it and it handles all of that with such a wonderful finesse that it's like watching a master class in comedy and dark humor. And this, on the other hand, you're like, wait a minute, we were just laughing about Dom Hale Gleason being a fucking piece of shit. And now Rose's sister is dying. All these other people are dying.

Now we're talking about how fucking fucked we are. And then we're going to spend another 15, 20 minutes of like everybody's fucked. People died. Rose is crying, consoling Rose. Then her being like, wait a minute, you're leaving. Wait, fuck you. My sister died. How could you? And it's like so many beats following it are wrapped around how the seriousness of the situation, which understandably so you lost your sister. Like, I don't. And you know what? All those people who are like.

Criticizing review like audience wise about the wokeness and about the bullshit about Rose and all of her shit. Fuck those people. They suck like Rose is a bad. Speaking of bombing, there's a lot of review bombing going on. There is a lot of reviews and bullshit. She had to like cancel her social media shit because so many people were right. Hounding her and giving her shit. It's insane, man. None of it is her fault as a person. First and foremost, you have to say that right. Like, fuck you.

Like, it's not her fault ever for anything. She was given a script and she acted her ass off on it. Like, in no way did I watch her performance and go like, she is the heart of the movie. In my mind, she is the heart of the movie. I just the whole thing. And that's yeah, that's what comes back to like the humor.

And there's some one liners that just don't fully work for me either, even though I love the messaging and again, like she's like, you know, talking about the canto biting ends being like, isn't it so disgusting how everybody's just profiting off of this war and all that. So that works for me a lot more interesting this time than the last time, too.

I think last time I was so distracted by the visual, the prequel like visuals in this casino scene that I had a hard time like honing in like all the stuff that was happening because it's just like, oh, wow, this is they're really going full prequel green Lucas green screen and a lot of this stuff. But I am more being more prepared and accepting some of that stuff I got with all that.

That whole scene was was representing and all the the underling side of this vast empire and like the the people's is like the people's history of Star Wars, you know, a little bit more of like getting into that. And that's what Andor and Rogue One is a little bit kind of touching on the disenfranchised and all this shit and how. Yeah. And the profiteers of war and Benicio's character also shows like it's a great.

Yeah. That scene like the casino scene like does something like it at least it shows like like Rose Rose is character is able to flourish a bit in what she represents and Finn as a former stormtrooper who has been on the other side as well comes to terms with the the what the Empire and the rebels both and how Benicio fits into his node and into how he can profit off everything. And yeah, I just reminded me a lot of yeah, the almost commentary on the war machine of today and in a lot of ways.

Which is the part of this movie that you will win me over a little bit on because I agree that is interesting. That is something that we haven't dealt with. That is a taking our perspective or taking the like lens of Star Wars and going like, oh, let's like blow this out a bit. You know what?

There's actually some stuff we can really like play in with and evaluate here about the world at large because time and time again, when we've seen like the Republic or the ruling class or like different, you know, kind of governments in this solar in this galaxy, it's very brief. It's like really a lot of the time. It's just like right before they're about to get murdered.

Like we see like a, you know, not Caribbean, but like course on or like some shit like that, like in the first movie plan, it's good taking out. Right. It was cool to see them for a second. Even though they're like, oh, we're all going to die. Look at all these interesting people on this. But oh, man. Sure. So yeah, I mean, that that stuff will win me over a bit.

But then, yeah, it is so incredibly hand fisted, like in the writing of Rose's character and of Rosenfin's journey where, you know, all she is spitting out is platitudes about like, you know. This I hate this. This is look at all these disgusting people. This is what money does and all of that stuff, which like, yeah, I mean, God, I get why you would have that perspective for sure. But like, you're not. You're just standing on the outside saying things about it. And there isn't a lot to bear.

There is. Yeah, they're really telling you exactly how to feel about it. Right. Like you're just such a passerby of like a point or a concept and you're never really getting into it. You're just like, yeah, that thing over there sucks, doesn't it? Man, we fucking don't like that. Yeah. Such a detour of kind of like, and yes, and here we see a casino plan. And this is how I feel about that. And we're out and we're out and we're gone.

You know, and I was that in where they like have to take out the track or that's in that the end of Empire Strikes Back to. Right. So I don't know. There's just certain beats and arcs of the movies that are just never going to fully go away, which is also frustrating in its own way. But yeah, I appreciated that a little bit more this time. Justin Theroux, the master.

He's able to just get what he like I I'm I'm so I'm so for me to support lead somewhere, I didn't see him as an actor because he has managed to always get in those roles where he has no problem putting on like facial prosthetics or like being silly accent. Oh, like silly accents and being a weirdo all the time. Like he has no problem doing those things. Like a cool. And it just yeah, I don't know. Yeah, you get Daniel Craig to as a stormtrooper uncredited, I believe.

But he's like the one that, oh, yeah, unfastens her thing. That's in the force. Oh, it is. OK, yeah, you're right. Never mind. I was thinking of the Rian Johnson Stormtrooper double O7 Craig Craig connection, but it's it's an Abrams one. So yeah, we're out of Casino Planet. We've done the Holdo maneuver and I think everything kind of coalesces in Crate, right? Is kind of where we're at as a crate. This salt with. Yeah, I mean, we could. Well, here I I've been having some beers.

I'm going to go to the bathroom more time. But do you think I would like to? Yeah, before we get to that, let's talk about the Kylo Ray. OK, Snoke situation. OK, that's that's like entrance. OK, we'll be right back. All right, we're we are back. So you wanted to talk about the Ray Kylo Snoke thing that that meeting happens near the end or is that before for Crate or that's kind of the same? No, that's that's before. It's then.

Yeah, it is for because then Kylo is like storming the gates with Domnol. And there's that whole power struggle. Yeah. So let's let's talk about that meeting because that was. Yeah. In my mind, the first time I saw it was so flashy and unexpected that I was just kind of like, whoa, this is this is fucking awesome because we haven't seen real real lightsaber battle either. So this is this is close to that. And then Snoke and taken out. But thinking about it more as well.

It's you just like, well, what does that mean for for Snoke? And I remember that was caused a lot of divisiveness over like, well, they just killed off Snoke with no explanation. What's what's that about? Yeah, absolutely. And that was really shocking. You get your explanation. And are you happy with that? No, I hate all of it. It's funny, too, because like it's weird to come to terms with like me wanting things to be more formulaic at times.

And like because I and you've known me long enough, it's like that's usually the opposite take that I have about. So yeah. And like and it's just so weird to be like critics like don't care about any of this shit. They're just like, cool. Like we're just looking on like more of these qualities of of a movie and and like not so precious about who these characters are and what they mean and the larger scope of things. And I think that just hangs up some of these fans of like from enjoying it.

But no, no, but I'm not blaming like again, like if you don't like it, like I don't know. I know I don't know. I don't know in any way. Or don't know. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it should be said, like even though we have a podcast about polarizing movies, you know, more often than not, we're pretty close in agreement. And when we do disagree with anybody, it's what's so interesting about this one. Yeah, we're not going to like.

Yeah, at a bare minimum, it's if you have a different opinion about this, that's OK. You know, and there's some reasoning, some review bomber bullshit that will call out and be like, yeah, that shit fucking. So we've read some like downright trash people reviews from lining out reasons that had nothing to do with the movie. And all right. And that's yeah, that's currently happening with. Yeah. Little mermaid as well. Just it's those people. It's never really.

Wow. Uncertainly not on Rotten Tomatoes. I think it's like a medic critic for whatever reason, but people are just. Oh, interesting. But anyway, so with snow, yeah, like it's crazy because again, like I want I'm actually more on board with it being more of a classic arc of it drove me nuts that they killed them because it is. So. Light on him in Force Awakens, very ominous, very like, oh, who is this Sith Lord that has been pulling so much details about order? He's got like these scars.

He's got this cool golden cloak that you get. I love his golden cloak in this one. Big head. Yeah, like Decade says weird shit going on with them. He's probably been around a while, like. Yeah, not a dark. He's just a he's just a snook. He's just a snook. And people were like theorizing so many things. I was home and I was trying to remember some of the silly ones, but. There were some silly ones, but by and large, it was like, oh, yeah, it was the.

The youngling that Anakin kills that some people were thinking that like it like he didn't fully kill one of the younglings or something. Right. Sure. And then right. There's such a cottage industry for fan theories like that. It's so interesting for properties. Like this, right? Where there's, you know, there's going to be a fucking a thousand and one articles about who Snoke is, you know? And yeah, yeah.

To really just say fuck you to all of those people is so bold, which again, yeah, which is why in my mind is this is such a critic favorite movie because I mean. Critics, by and large, have to be going to movies and going like, oh, man, people are just like not. They're just turning their brains off and wanting to be spoon fed.

And this movie challenges so many of those conventions that it's not surprising to me at all that a critic would be like, yeah, this I like this movie a lot because this movie does a lot of the opposite of what you expect. And but I really wanted something that was like, you know, the way that Darth Vader is, I'm sorry, but I wanted like, you know, entered, you know, OK, Kylo's Darth Vader, Snoke is Palpatine. And over the course of three movies, there's going to be this, you know.

And then you find out it's like it like literally is Palpatine, which is just such a fucking bummer. But I know, yeah, just a Palpatine creation. Whatever. That's so fucking convoluted. It's like a clone of some shit. Right. Yeah. He just like makes these like snow clones. It's just always. Yeah, I don't know. It's such bullshit. Fuck, man, that really. Well, but I like I just wanted a shock value.

There's just I think it's also yeah, I think like I'm craving and maybe it's inciting that in me purposely so, but it's not as satisfying as maybe they think of like I am craving some. Even it's cool. Kill him. Whatever. But at least give me like a little a little something of like who he might have been and shit.

And I I'm even OK with the fact that Kalo like Kylo or friend, Kalo, Kalo Ren, Kalo Ren, like you can tell that he's not being honest about her, her parents and her lineage of like, oh, they were like traders, farmers, whatever. They just like traded you for scraps. Like I read his acting is so fucking good, dude. And in that moment, you can tell like he looks like he's he's lying or he's not like telling the full truth.

And I loved that conversation after because just based on his performance of how he gave that people had these conversations of like, was he telling the truth? Was that really it? Because he's just kind of kind of stuttered, like pauses and does these little eye fluctuations. It's like and I like the fact I and what ends up happening with that. We can get into another time.

But I remember thinking at the end of this movie, I'm like, I'm definitely fine with that because then the idea of expanding this universe and not having it always be about fucking Skywalkers and Palpatines and shit, like it's the smallest fucking universe in the world. It's like she should be from fucking nowhere. Like that makes it even cooler.

And this whole thing about the forces with everybody, it means that anybody that even from fucking Jack, who which everyone just I love how everyone makes fun of how what a shit hole Jack who is. He's like, oh, that is nowhere. And that's for me, all the movie that all the stuff that's set up in this movie is pulled under the rug for me in the next one. And that's where I get frustrated. And that's where I think people the same way people feel about this one. So I get it as well.

But I like the fact that they yeah, it is more it would be more innocuous. So it would be just as much this little boy that's from the stables is like the new rain, you know, and I like I like that messaging a lot more rather than like, oh, no, it's Palpatine. Palpatine is not not only irresponsible for Ray, he's also responsible for Snoke. And he's always been there somehow returned. Brr brr brr brr.

And anyways, we shouldn't get too far into that, but it's never too far because that gets us into. Yeah. But it's we're talking about the true like true trilogy at large in some ways. And we talked a little Force Awakens, how it sets it up and how this whole thing is just not planned well and not charted. The course is not charted out. But yeah, so that's I mean, Cray, I'd like to just maybe finish off with some some great stuff. Yeah, we'll go to reviews, maybe any sort of stuff about that.

Like, I mean, I think that I have a kind of a I'm not crazy about the animals. And I don't know. Absolutely not like the horses. I don't really care how the horse things look. That doesn't look really that great. Yeah, the Crystal Critters looked a little cute cuter this time around. But once once he says Crystal Critters, I like jump out of my seat every time. I like these because it's called them Crystal Critters. Because it's just such calm.

At least to me, I'm sure it's like an alien name like the like, yeah, something that's like even Sufis. Right. Something like that. Yeah, for sure. I mean, maybe I'm sure it's like not totally commonplace, but God, it's like damn near close is that we all know that Disney has made movies in order to sell merchandise. It's a fundamental part.

Fundamental part of their strategy in creating the content that they create is there are it is very, very, very well documented that time and again, the CEOs of Disney, when it comes to their direction of properties that are getting produced under their watch is here is the structure. OK, we're going to release this in theaters. It needs to have X, Y, and Z characteristics of it because we're going to turn this into a ride.

We're going to sell merchandise from it or we're going to do a direct to video sequel of it. So it has to have these characteristics of it or else you're in trouble. Director, you know, whoever you're in trouble. And this is a big fucking set piece for sure. Yeah, this is this is made for absolutely.

And you just like this movie thought they do the Hoff at the end of it, which that's the thing that I would argue drives me fucking nuts because if you want to sit there, not to try to be like, you sit there, James, I'm going to shoot you. I'm not going to come over there with a gun. But like if you're going to sit there and say like it is, isn't this movie so refreshing how subversive it is? No, I got you. Interesting artistic swings it does.

But then it fucking ends in a set piece that's like off, but not within the spot. But instead of so it's salt. No, I totally agree. It's just like and you brought it up earlier. It's like within the system like you're like for hire director to and there is the structure that is in place. And I think Ryan Johnson, for what it's worth, works within that structure and makes his trademark known in this movie in a way that is is hard to do.

And like the Lord and Miller's of it all, they got fucking kicked off, I think, because they were making too much of a of a mark, which they're good filmmakers and they make good stuff for the most part. But they put, you know, old Dusty Howard into to finish it off, to make things, you know, more generic. I feel like unless and more. But I think within the system, especially for a sequel, that's already part of a trilogy. There's certain things that have to be in place.

I think he does well within the system that's that's set out for him. But it's also an odd pairing. And I and I get why it doesn't work for a lot of people. And certain things don't jive with me of of of everything, because you can tell it's like strained of their idea, their ideas and how how he's fit in with it, everything. But also, yeah, I'm curious what a J.J. Abrams full on trilogy would be. I don't know their decision making with this still baffles me.

And I think we we know because what we give them, the third one, I think is a really great example of what we would have gotten. I think we would have gotten, you know, and we would have gotten that sooner and he would have stretched it out.

But yeah, he's he's notorious for just constantly just leading, leading, leading the thread a bit and all the last stuff of writing in the fog and everything like he's he's such a student of Spielberg and Lucas, but in like kind of the worst ways at times in my mind, like if it's like placing importance, it's like it's you know, obviously a work of art is almost like it's like a statue. Right. People walk up to it and they'll interpret it however they're going to interpret it.

And the majority of it is bringing their own notice to it and really like putting who they are onto a piece. And it's more of a fixed object rather than something that's like, you know. Yeah, like something that moves or fluid and changes. It's just so much of what we bring. And it just to me, a lot of J.J. Abrams stuff is like, right.

Like I I'm obsessed with these aspects of George Lucas and of Steven Spielberg, but it like kind of loses the thread or like misses some of the more like kind of a shiny, shiny looking car. But the engine. Yeah. I don't know, like the engines is like, do do. Yeah, because it's it's flashy in more ways than one because he uses so many fucking and we're not obsessed with the Millennium Falcon because it's the Millennium Falcon.

We're obsessed more so with Han Solo driving it and being like the person who's giving it life. Like you're focusing on the the it's that whole. Like how a lot of Marvel people and comic book people like collect Funko pops, right? Like the Funko pop is fucking dumb and pointless. Like the thing that you love is that it is representative of a character. But even then, you're focusing on the character and you're not focusing on their motivations that led you to loving them.

It's like it's so trademark sort of thing. It's like cart before the horse shit. Like, oh, you know, yeah, again, you're losing why. And it's like the argument that is right. He was barely in those fucking movies and people put right. And he started off as a toy and then he kind of got reworked in. And it's launched into a sarlacc pit in two seconds. I see. I know my stay. I mean, how can we not?

Yeah, because these I mean, to start to start concluding it, I'm down to go through some of my notes if you got any. But I was just thinking of like any like last crate stuff of like Luke showing up as a hologram. I if you didn't maybe it's because I didn't like any. I think I think that's such like an he was an Obi-Wan kind of thing to do. And or the conversation with Yoda. I really like the conversation with Yoda, the effects that Yoda had of being a force because he was a real puppet.

Oh, I love that. Frank, I think I'm Frank Osmas of he's still around. I think so, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was I love that. And he's such a little stingray. So I know he's got kind of like the more bulgy eyes of the fucking man. He's just like doing a lot of good, good. I think that's some good stuff. And then I yeah, overall, I liked the set piece. And then what happens at the end? Really? That's much to talk about. It's kind of just like Kylo's, the new new big boy and.

Ray has like a connection with him. That's kind of like we'll see what's going to where that's going to go. A little bit. Yeah, just leaves off of like Kylo. Yeah, what is the lead off here is Kylo has now usurped Snow. So he is now the leader of the First Order. And then he also kind of has this vendetta to convert Ray, because he feels like she could be converted. It's just like the lead up to return the Jedi, because that's what is going to try to do with Vader.

Right. And I just leave it there, right? Yeah, we just leave it there. That's the broad. Yeah, that's the broad side of it all. And you know, Luke, Luke, Luke, Luke, Luke, Luke, Luke, Luke. Luke. And what's going on with. Yeah, I don't know. I know that a lot of people had issue with how. Who meets Ray for the first time. That's what happens. He's like, Hi, my name or like, my name's Po. She's like, I'm Ray. He's like, I know. And I like us. Or I'm a fan.

And then she like sees Finn and Rose and she's kind of like, oh, OK, they're they're considering item hood to borrow a Benny and June phrase. Considering item hood. I always like that. Yeah, I'd be down to go through some some notes. You can do anything. Oh, yes, he can. I don't remember that force does not belong to Jedi. I wish I could put my fist through this whole lousy, beautiful town. See, OK, see, these are these one liners.

I'm going to I'm going to highlight some of these that just like feel like a little chat GPT. Like a robot. I don't know. Or just how they come off is just like so like on the on the nose. Like you're saying speaking in platitudes. Like I wish I could put my fist through this whole lousy, beautiful town. You didn't fail, Kylo. Kylo failed you. Holdo and competent shallow. I remember my question marks. I was like, is she just incompetent? That was like, is she incompetent or evil?

And it was like, no, she just follows the code. One of the two. Like I was just trying to figure out what is the deal. I know. Right. Because she's so cagey. And so and then she's also against Poe so quickly. So she's disarming him so quickly. So you're like, well, something's got to be wrong with her because she's holding some. What would there must be some like bigger plot that she's trying to defang Poe because he's the only person who could be like, yeah, yeah.

And then I kind of got the feeling like when Leia comes back, I was like, oh, she was just doing everything that Leia would have done anyways. And he was maybe it was harder to accept from a new character. If Leia would maybe was doing those things, maybe you've been more acceptable. But I still thought that that friction between the two just didn't pay off for me.

And besides like being a cool cinematic holdo slice, the day for night, there's some like day for night stuff, which like I guess works when you're on like an alien planet with Luke and stuff and there's a and they show there's and I thought that was like an OK way to like establish why I look that way. But there was a big moon and she was like walking around at night and I was like, oh, this is not night. This is no moon. This is David. That's a fucking sun. That's a star. That's a sun.

Yeah, it is sun because just how how was I would I feel like I would be remiss. And big, big note I have here is talk about milking those creatures for the green. Sure. Because that is disgusting. Yes. Everyone can agree on that. I'm kind of fine with it in there.

I know it's gross. I don't like how they're not like cow like they're like they're they literally have the energy like, hey, I'm just sitting here on the by the water, you know, hanging out, like have this like humanoid characteristic to just be like, yeah, I'm just hanging out here by the water. Oh, hey, you know, and then he just comes up and starts milking it. And then it's just like, oh, God, so fucking gross. Yeah. Now when I think about it, it is just all over his beard.

Satisfied like, yeah, you fucking Star Wars fans. I bet you're wondering all that blue milk. This is it. I agree. What you want? Yeah, yeah, it comes out of the right tip. Blue comes out of the left. Is this what you wanted? So gross. It is. It makes me mad. I don't know why. I just like love when there's weird shit and it's like so weird. And it's just so weird. I think it's like a novelty now. And like, yeah, I guess you could call it a meme, if you will.

And then these, yeah, see how these will be memed. And if there's still memes in 20 years, the way they did the prequels. But it's just I don't know if it's campy enough. A lot of it is generic, you know, and who knows who's to say. People are growing up with them. We'll see what they have to say when those little little youngsters are making memes of their own. No, they're already out there doing it. Let's see. Well, you are the last. I am the last Hoper. You were the last hope or something.

They say it was like, oh, I get it. New hope. Last hope. Last Jedi. Yeah. Last. Last. One weapon I really liked was one of those red guys had a fucking soul caliber to blade that like would. So caliber to where it's like a chain like it could like be solid as a sword, but then it also broke out into pieces and was like a whip. Yeah, he had one. I was like, oh, that's. I want that toy. Give me that toy. I like rewound it to like look at more of the movie. The and like like.

Fin fast, my fight, which that that was I was watching some reviews from people and that was such a like a clear hit Fin's whole character arc is a is a great example for some people why this movie in this series sucks. It's frustrating. Yeah, it is very frustrating because the lack of the direction, which is because his his has so much potential as a character. So much potential. I was so excited at the beginning of Force Awakens. I'm like, dude, they are taking the mask immediately.

What they do in force. I know, right? Show blood. He takes off. I was like, wow, that's blood in this movie. And and then like you recognize it's who he is because the blood's on his man. Like that's just a great visual thing. So and then he takes the mask off. And and he's just trying to escape from war because he's been taken from his family at a young age. Like all this stuff works like everybody in the stormtroopers. Right.

And and like, oh, my God, to humanize the stormtroopers was such an interesting angle. And they just get just like with Luke Skywalker throwing the lightsaber away. I think it's like, no, I think we're not doing him on the casino mission was in character for him to see that side of war.

And I thought that him, you know, talking to Rose, like I used to be a stormtrooper and then they're kind of foils in their own way of people who had their young lives fucked up and are displaced and have to make do in the same way that like, yeah, I don't know, the people making money are impartial to war as well. It's like people are going about their lives in whatever like benefits them kind of kind of best.

And to have Rose, who is so I don't know, empathetic and charitable or I don't know, what like just cares cares for people. It just bums me out that people hate her so much. That made me so sad. It's like, goddamn people, we can't have anything nice. Yeah, and one of the nice things I was looking at some more notes. One of those guys got beheaded. I thought that was pretty cool. And the red guys. Okay, chopped in half. Spray brutal. Yeah, his hands still sitting there like on the armrest.

We way more. Yeah. Okay. Oh, Poe gives BB eight little scratches. I thought that was fine. I like BB eight. BB eight school. Yeah. You made that. That's the vibe check. Definitely, definitely like not overused. And I like that there was an evil BB eight just for a second. Uh huh. That's fun. I also like to that they gave you the interior of how BB works on a ship. I thought that was such a cool scene. Like a little hat.

Yeah. Yeah, like he like drops into the middle of the ship and is like working on stuff. I was like, oh man, I really enjoy this. And then, yeah, how he's able to his head separate from the ball, but like, can come back to the other. Yeah, I liked how I was like, oh no, he separated and then it's just, oh, yeah, BB eight, maybe it's cool. You get some, yeah, you get our two back as well. Yeah. You do get our two and you get three PO. Don't give me that.

How they just kind of like dismiss some of it because he's just always prattles on so much. They kept that in character. I like this. I like this. Oh, yeah. That line. I just was like another one of those, like, is this a robot wrote this movie or something? Like, I am human and I like this. I think I go for food and beverage with my friends. An effective way to have the audience feel what you're feeling in the film is to tell them exactly what they're feeling.

It's not simply about smiling and enjoying yourself. You have to state exactly how you feel in your internal monologue. I feel like just remember, I feel like the script of like Ray likes this in parentheses. Ray likes this. Yeah, we're having fun. This is good. You feel this is good. And I feel good. Remember, when writing a movie, the audience is going to be viewing this movie or a bunch of dumb diaper babies. And if you don't explain to them exactly how they're feeling, they may be confused.

If Kylo only was like when things didn't go his way. I don't like this. I don't like this. I wish things went differently. More in line with what my character wanted. Straight in. Disappointed. My last note was Luke gives himself a different haircut as a hologram. Did you know that? I know. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of weird, right? He's like trying to like live up to the legend. He like gives his hologram like legend, like, oh, the legendary Luke haircut, I feel like is what he was.

I mean, if you're able to create a whole image of yourself. Yeah. Why don't you give him? He's got a big dog. Really buffed. Doesn't have gray hair. And he's like this fucking you. He could have done it. They DHed him. He could have done it. Fucking. They could have just do they get a fucking letter. Yeah, I'm going to be the fucking self. I'm going to create. This is my last moment on this. That makes me think of this.

So I watched some of History of the World, the TV show that came out and there's this it's it's pretty fucking hit or miss like very hit or miss. But there's this one bit where Mel Brooks is like. The whole bit is like he's you know, he's able to make himself look however he wants to. And then so what he does is he makes himself look like the really yoked, cool version of himself. And it was so funny to just hear his voice out of like this. I wonder if I can show you.

Let me see if I can find a picture of it. But it's just it makes me think of that. Like, yeah, I mean, if you're, you know, like given the option to, you know, have a like, you know, like. Have a like another version of yourself, you're going to just make the same exact version of yourself. No way. Well, while you while you do that, can I pull up some of these refuse? Oh, yeah, please. All right.

Just to remind everybody, we got a last Jedi at a certified fresh 91 by the critics, a 42 percent by the audience. Let's get into some some feels out there. I'm going to start with the critic side. Let's check out some positive reviews. We'll go to the Guardian. Jordan Hoffman, a 100. A perfect film is is a 100.

While there are some solid nuggets of deep cut Easter eggs for hardcore fans, what is so extraordinary about the last Jedi is that this is the first post Lucas Star Wars film that feels free to dance to its own beat. This is just a really dance into its own beat by giving you almost exactly what you expected, but making it weirder.

Yeah, this is I know this one's funny to me, a recognized film critic, Ty Burr from the Boston Globe gave it a hundred on Metacritic and the blur underneath it says it's not a perfect movie, but it may be a great one. He gave it a hundred. I think a hundred means it's a perfect. I thought I thought that always meant it was a perfect. But maybe you go you beat to your own drum, buddy. That's what that's what I learned from Jordan Hoffman from the Guardian from LA Times.

Another 100 Justin Chang easily its most exciting iteration in decades. The first flat out terrific Star Wars movie since 1980s. The Empire Strikes Back. It seizes upon Lucas Lucas's original dream of finding a pop vessel for his obsessions. Akira Kurosawa epics. John Ford Western science fiction serials and fulfills it with a verve and imagination all its own. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. We'll do let's get at least below a 100. These there's a good amount, though. People just give given a tens.

We'll do IGN to IGN with a 97 as a video game publication or website. Star Wars The Last Jedi is the quintessential Star Wars movie. It embraces everything in the franchise that came before while taking big risks to push the story into new and unexpected places. And then we'll do. Hey, we'll do two more. There's a lot from time Stephanie Zachary. 90 no matter how much money has been poured into a movie, it's emotional generosity that it's emotional generosity that matters.

And Johnson gives without squandering. His great gift is that he knows when to stop. And then last one from New York Times, Manole Dargis 90. Yes, the latest Star Wars installment is here and lo, it is a satisfying at times transporting entertainment. Remarkably, it has visual wit and human touch. No small achievement for a seemingly indestructible machine that revved up 40 years ago and shows no signs of sputtering out ever.

It's. I was going to say, OK, yeah, man, everyone, everyone who's anyone really gives their opinion on this movie that you would care to hear from. We got all the publications here. Oh, this is the one that I like to check in every now and then with the Christian Science Monitor with Peter Rainer, a 75 out of 100. Star Wars The Last Jedi is the eighth movie in the series and one of the better ones. I'd rank it behind the Empire Strikes Back, still by far the best and the first film.

But it's about on par with the enjoyable last episode Force Awakens, which also awakened the long more and more abundant franchise. I've never said that word. I've read it before. More bound, more abundant. Oh, oh, got it. It's not it's not spelled bound, but I know what the word mean. I just whatever. Like, yeah, like more and more to come. Right. But it's like one word, right? It's like it was like it's like to say, you know, it's like it was like it's like to see like more. Yeah. Oh, morbid.

It's like kind of what it's what's that that was more abundant because like, I don't know, more is like the like kind of death and everything at the point of death. I'm going to try to see if more abundant. Oh, there we go. Google did it for me. I'll share my screen so you can hear more abundant. I get my practice and I hope you're enjoying this. I feel like I've done this on the podcast before. I need to make it a segment of like, how do you say that word? You ready? Moribund. Moribund.

Moribund. Moribund. Moribund. Moribund. Moribund. Moribund. Thanks. All right. Then we're going to go to audience reviews here. Let's check out some negative reviews from fans on the tomatoes. They give it a 42 stinky stinky and I'm going to pull some from Metacritic is really the same situation where it's an average 4.1 by audience and a 84 by critics. It's interesting. I guess it's just yeah, like a 41 and 84, I guess you could say.

But there's some real intensity with some of these some of these reviews, but let's let's get into it. We'll start with a zero from grasshopper. They say here are some scores from the so-called professional movie critics on this site. The Godfather part two 85 Star Wars Last Jedi 85 The Departed 85 Silence of the Lambs 85 The Pianist 85 Fargo 85 This is one of those movies that we gave high scores to and no one's ever seen it again. Now it's up to you to find the mistake. Proving their point.

Gary Antis gives it a one. Guy who directed this should be fired so great potential after Force Awakens wasted. Ridiculous choices and bad acting only Finn put an effort in it and director forgot about him. Movie was so bad that I created an account just to write it. From Hunter Zolomon gives it a zero. The worst part about this movie is is not that it's a poorly written movie with terrible or non-existent character arcs, poor plot, out of place humor or ham-fisted political commentary.

It's not even that it ignores established Star Wars canon or lore. It is awful because it attempts to ruin everything about Star Wars that made it such a beloved story in the first place. Instead of wisdom, we get book burning. Instead of optimism and faith, we get nihilism. Instead of hope, we get pessimism and despair. The movie is an all-out assault on Star Wars as a phenomenon. It left me cold. It seems as if the people in charge of the franchise at Disney really hate the original trilogy.

Charged. Charged up. Charged. Do maybe like a Charged. Couple more, two more. Drew Man, 82. One gives it a one. I'm writing this review to document that I am a real human being and not a bot, which frankly is a pathetic excuse for apologists of this thing to make. The Last Jedi is just not a good movie. If this were any other franchise, we would all be laughing about it in a MST3K slash Rift Rack sort of oh, mystery science theater, Rift Rack sort of way.

Because Star Wars means so much to people. There is polarization. Yeah, it's perfect. This movie isn't bad because I didn't get what I wanted as a fan of the series. This movie is bad because I didn't get what I wanted as a fan of movies in general. There we go. Lame jokes, unlikable characters, a boring plot that goes nowhere. And some of the worst editing and pacing I've seen this side of the Transformers franchise.

In six months, when this trash is on home media, all of its supporters are going to have a hard time defending it. The only good thing about this movie is the commitment by every actor to try and make it work. Star Wars movies are supposed to leave you with the want to come back to the galaxy far, far away. And I honestly don't care after this movie. People saying what they feel. I'm going to do one more from New Zealand gives it a two. New Zealand as a country came out and posted the statement.

This movie left me empty. It was way too much like Empire Strikes Back, but in such a bad way because it was so disconnected and implausible. So many lines said by characters made no sense. A disconnected, senseless movie. I've never watched a movie and thought, what are they doing? Why did they say that? And if the director could please tell me how bombs fall in the near vacuum of space. Oh, fair question. They really need to teach more science in schools. How about how about no bombs at all?

I thought Star Wars was about laser beams and lightsabers. I could go on, but why bother? Let's just join the critics, clap our hands and drool at all the fancy cinematography. No, I am an old Star Wars fan. Yeah, I didn't figure that one out, but I have no desire to watch any more new movies. Excuse me. I need to leave an attempt to empty my memory of this ridiculous movie. I remember people like actively trying to like remove this from the lore and like sign petitions.

I feel like we're like, can you remove this from the lore and redo this the same way that they try to do the Game of Thrones? I don't know. So that stuff is just it's silly to me. So you can walk out of a bad movie and it's OK. But but on the same thing, like if we can, I mean, even relate to, you know, the most recent James Bond and how that affected us in the end of that. I think that, you know, affected some old time James Bond fans of like, fuck, they. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, really changed how. Yeah, really supposed to feel about crazy. Yeah. Yeah. More nihilistic and pessimistic sort of sort of way looking at the James Bond world and you kind of have to like deal with it a little bit. So yeah, I kind of get it get to an extent. And for me, it's like. I kind of felt that way when Jurassic World came out as a as a long time Jurassic Park for like even like as much as I like the second one, the third one is OK.

And all of it just seems like more limited than the world that Star Wars, the universe that Star Wars offers is like, oh, you can tell so many different stories. I mean, Jurassic World and all that's like telling the same story again of like opening a park and it goes wrong. Except there's more people there. There's not anything inherently wrong with that. No, and I didn't get that. That's not a movie. That's not a great negative. And that ends up being a trilogy as well.

And it just kind of gets worse and worse. Characters are the problem. And I just don't those ones don't leave me running back to it. But I just I think there's something so intense about Star Wars where people really hold it to such a high regard in the stories that tells us books that are made, there's shows, there's games. There's so many things. There's amusement parks.

Disney Disneyland has Star Wars and it's just it's just so big and vast that as as people, I think they even tell themselves their own stories that they want to hear in this big universe about there's so much, you know, so yeah, getting getting intense about a franchise reviving itself under Mickey Mouse and doing it in this shiny glossy way. Yeah, it's gonna it's gonna leave people feeling differently.

It's just interesting that it's a critically favored Disney Star Wars movie that audience is just like, hey, in a blockbuster that audiences just like dump on. Because yeah, it's yeah, for a blockbuster to make swings, it's it's just an interesting little little nugget for a for a middle movie as well, the one that should be pushing things forward from the first one, and then leading things into the third one. It really seems kind of like it's yeah, its own own thing in a weird way.

But I think yeah, I don't know, do you have any other feelings about the polarization litmus test we just took? And then you want to move into your review and a score to match? Yeah, I mean, the polarization is clear. My mind is that, you know, you're given at the helm of this movie is somebody who has made some interesting statements in their own movies before that brought that into this movie.

And then and he was given the reign to continue to make those, you know, not odd, but different choices. And yeah, for better or for worse, I get why this is polarizing, because I can sympathize with people wanting, you know, a lot of the stuff that I liked about Force Awakens was because that it was a retelling of the old one of the old series. And yeah, for better or for worse. I mean, yeah, again, it's just weird, because usually I'm all about, you know, all about not doing that.

But there is something to be said about telling it's kind of doing both kind of like have its cake and eat it to a bit for sure. Yeah, absolutely. So, um. No, yeah, no, I'm it's it's so clear just watching this movie how, you know, it's this. Yeah, there's no. There's no middle ground in this. This movie, this is one of those movies where you're either going to love or hate it. And I'm curious where you are going to put yourself, this lover or hate it to the next room. Where are you at?

Let's hear it. Oh, you're not going to give your score yet. We're going to. Oh, you want me to go first? I thought that was your kind of final review right there. I know you like, you like, you're like, this is like feeling like, what's your score? Like we can say it at the same time if you want. I can I can say my piece and then we can say our scores at the same time. Oh, OK, OK, whatever. I don't know. Just know, just continue on and then say you're saying.

Yeah, yeah, let me just let me just think we know generally like how what what side we're going to. Yeah, we know what side is. There's a lot of a lot about this movie that I did not care for. A lot of it is because of. Yeah, the cake and eat it to is really great. This is a wonderful use case of that because not only does it have a lot of the same stuff from a lot of homages to the older movies, but it makes. It makes these choices these really big choices to be different.

And it overall makes me feel like it just like devalues what has come before in a way that is a bitter pill to swallow. And it's, you know, maybe, yeah, maybe there's an alternate universe where I'm like, oh, really loving the challenge of that, of not being given the, you know, the soda and given the water instead. But in this case, it really just doesn't work for me.

And a lot of it has to do with how disconnected the story is from a lot of things and how yeah, it's hard not to want to make certain just like, oh, you know, this is what I loved about this old property. It doesn't have to be exactly the same, but you are just so far from that, that it really. It's not good for me. I'm going to give a score for this movie. Yeah, for me, this is a 42 percent. Forty two. Fair. And I think you laid out your issues very well this whole time.

I feel like it's been interesting. Kind of. It's been nice hearing kind of like every side. I feel like not every side, but our our sides are kind of different. I think that's been interesting to. In a way, highlight more out of this movie than we normally would sometimes when you do agree so much, because it is a lot of like affirmation of like, yeah, I feel that way to. Yeah, this movie's awesome. Or yeah, this sucks. Yeah, I totally agree. It was fun having this back and forth with with you.

Definitely. Yeah, I agree. This was fun. And overall, I think I've come down to this movie has more good in it than than bad for me. It takes some some swings in some ways that I really enjoy. And I think starting out, you know, the the space battle and all that stuff is a normal way to start a Star Wars movie and the sacrifice of the person like plays out well, cinematically.

And there's a lot of a lot about this movie that cinematically plays out if you don't think too much about bombs falling and and all that. But I will. Yeah, that's such a small nitpick.

Yeah. But yeah, I will give in on some of the humor is a little bit like a little, a little rough for me, but also doesn't doesn't ruin the overall what they're trying to accomplish with with the characters and the I think the theming, just the theming and the messaging of this movie rise above some of the the narrative issues with me, namely with the Holdo post stuff, I think kind of not censors, but not fully utilizing

like the characters in those moments and having them just be locked into the ship and having to move through space at a slow glacial sort of thing. It's kind of and then all the layer thing is the weaker part. But to move out of that, to discuss my those are kind of more criticisms.

I I think for them to slow the movie down, have Ray and Luke have conversations was my jam, like them just like talking about the force and talking about what's going on internally for her and also not giving too much away because I think the idea of her past not really mattering about who she is now and what she's going to do and giving her independence apart from the stock that she's been placing in the whole world, the whole universe has been

placing in these legends to come to either come to their aid or represent what they want to represent rather than that person being who they are. They are expecting that person to rise up to this preconceived notion of what a hero, what a Luke Skywalker would be and should be. And I thought him instilling that independence in her and looking in her and and also and teaching her something, but also learning something from her about Kylo.

All that's all that stuff played well in the connection between her and Kylo worked better for me. It was a kind of a cheap little bit of a cheap use of exposition. I think between having them have that connection. I I know that's how I felt the first time. I'm like, this is just a way for them to like connect them and have these conversations about about stuff that when they wouldn't otherwise.

But those conversations were so important about revealing his side of the story and then later revealing Luke's and the stories that you tell each other and everyone around you is a game like a is like a game of telephone. And that plays into those stories. We tell each other about Luke and heroes and everything. And I and and then the casino plan worked a little bit better as well. Love Benicio. Phasma coming back is like fine.

And I even like thought about like, oh, she got thrown in garbage compact or last movie. And I was like, oh, wait, that's the perfect plot hole, because that's what happens to fucking Luke and all them is they get thrown in a trash compactor and they get out. So it's they showed it's passable. If you have an R2, but R2, R2. And then, yeah, yeah, I think that's just my overall thing. Just it's it's more good than bad.

I love the fact that whole idea of the forces with everyone and the the final note at the end of the little kid and all that just it warms my heart and it bums me out that it really, like, makes people so upset. But it is what it is. And I I know if you're Mark Hamill and you also aren't sure about the characterization of somebody who've played one of the most important things you've ever done in your lives, then I trust his intuition.

But I also appreciate Ryan Johnson taking that hero and deconstructing that hero. And deconstructing the the hero's Odyssey and like the whole Joseph Campbell of it all was, I think, warranted to to re-refix that a bit. And then it also gave, I thought, more weight to Ray. And I thought the first half of and having Ray and everything was was handled well. Yeah. So more good, more good than bad. And I think the bad doesn't doesn't outweigh it too much. I was leaning between 70 and 80.

So I'm going to go. So I love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. Love it. 76. Sounds good. Yeah, this is I didn't and I didn't expect to like it this time around because I feel like hearing so much discourse after the first time I saw I almost didn't want to revisit it because I'm like, then I'm just going to see all the things that those people said. And I'm not going to like it as much. And I saw and I saw what people were talking about. But still, it's such a feel movie for me.

I just feel feel it when I when I watch it and it makes me feel warm and hope and like humanity and that whole sort of like how they how they describe the forces really and how they build that lore out in this movie is something that I've latched on to more than more than a lot of the other Star Wars movies. And I get why some of the critics have have been so hot on it as well is because it's just and it's just again, this is like the perfect fucking movie for our our podcast.

And it's one that the I was looking for an idea for a podcast and this was something that I was I had considered. And then I was browsing through Reddit and I saw an infograph and this was one of the highest listed, most polarizing movies. And I saw this infograph of all these movies that were polarizing and I sent it to you. And so, yeah, this is this is one of those that really anything like started the podcast and a lot of like, wow, yeah, for sure this idea.

So and for us to be polarized on it is very fitting. So it's really funny. It's kind of been the perfect episode and I've been looking forward to doing it. And I'm glad we we we knocked it out. And you may think we're done, but next time we will be doing Rise of Skywalker to close to close us out. Yeah, let's close it out and and get finished with our feelings about the trilogy and how J.J. Abrams attempts to get it back to what he was trying to do. I guess I don't know. Yeah, right. It is.

I haven't seen that movie since theaters either. And it's that was like a fever dream. And it it holds. I remember coming out of it being like, I love that. Cool. Oh, yeah. Really nice. Yeah, I did. And then I thought about it more and I was like, oh, yeah, who knows? I feel like there's there's some good stuff in there. There's some there's going to be some good stuff. But also, it's like kind of being on the there's this ride called X. Yes. At Six Flags, this amusement park near near us.

And you like do like flippies while the like the car itself is doing flippies while the train is doing flippies as well. Yeah, because it's all about like X being that it like rotates and. And I looking at it like, wow, it's insane. We got to try it. And I remember when I first came out, it's called X2. Now it's funny to make it a sequel. But every time we come up, I come off that ride with people, it's like. What just happened?

Like I think either people like it or they're just kind of like, I feel sick and I have no idea what just happened. But most of most of the time, it's kind of people kind of confused of like, I don't even know what that was. That's kind of how we feel. We're walking on a rise. The Skywalker was like walking out of like one of those crazy coasters. That that one ride at Disneyland, the rise of the resistance, we should do a yeah, that's how we got to end the Star Wars.

We got in between this and next conversation. We got to go to Disneyland and ride that together. OK, OK. We got to go. Well, yeah, we're off to Disneyland. Just for one ride and then and then we're good. We're out of there. Been a true pleasure. Five hours later. And then we just come back and start recording again. OK, we did it. This has been a true pleasure. I see Mel Brooks and the chat. It is very funny. It's funny, right? Yeah, that's a God. What a what a class act. I love it.

Just watch Blazing Saddles again. It's like a yearly revisit for me. It's just too funny. And him and just the cross-eyed mayor is just the funniest thing. Yeah. All right. So yeah, that was that was us. This is you. This is where we this is where we are all together. If you'd like to reach us, you can watch us live polarized. Wait, which twitch.tv slash polarized pod, twitter.com slash polarized pod. If you want to reach us there, send us a line at polarized upon a Gmail dot com.

Join us on our other podcast prod pod where we talk about producers, music producers. We've we're pretty new. We've done about three episodes so far. You can reach us on like Spotify and Apple. We just got on Apple podcasts as well. Rate and review and subscribe on there as well for both of those. We have that music producer podcast was really fun. We did Diplo, Todd Rundgren, Barry Berry Gordy of Motown.

We are currently investigating a certain Max Martin, a creator of culture at large and just fucking single. Banger, baby. It's been so fun listening to so much Max Martin hits. Phil more like hits Martin. It's been a fun way to listen to music, to chart the course of producers. And it's taught me a lot about music. It really has. It's just like this podcast taught me about watching movies as well. That taught me about music by and large. Yeah. Join us on the ride. We love it.

And we have our good friend Corey slash large to join us there to a great musician. We just saw a little brief concert report. We saw his show. Nowhere Land. Recently, a great band. If I can do a little plug at the end, check out Nowhere Land. They're working on some new stuff. We saw it and it is awesome. Really good tunes and Brandini, Darth Brandini. I will let you take your leave. OK, everyone, this is bad. This concludes this portion of the podcast. Don't forget your bags and whatnot.

We'll see you next time. Have you noticed Darth Brandy? Darth Brandini's been kind of nice lately. Yeah, well, anyways. OK, well, I know he's going to show me the finger again. Oh, no, he just blasted off. We're cool. All right. See you. See you later, everybody. Bye bye. Bye. Bye.