Revenge (2018)

Welcome to the podcast, you sickos. We're back. Welcome to the Polarize Podcast. This is a podcast about polarizing movies, polarizing in the sense of Rotten Tomatoes scores. We talk about movies here that have scores. Critics love it. Audiences hate it or vice versa. Those are the movies that we talk about. You know, if you're returning, glad to have you back. If you're jumping in on this, I'm sure you're sick fuck if you're coming in on this movie. But you know what?

We're glad to have you regardless. Today we're talking about the movie Revenge, that sick movie for those sick fucks. That's what it's that's what we're talking about. It's 2017 French art film. Critics love it. This is a spicy certified fresh 93% and a stinky 58% audience score. Yeah. So this is and this is also going to conclude our revenge series. It is not just only me talking though. And I want to get into the discussion because this movie is definitely worth talking about.

I would like to now introduce my co-host and also we'd like to call him our forever guest, Mr. James Lindsay. How's it going? Let's get it twisted. What's up everybody? I'm back. Twisted. Oh my god. Oh my god. James got twisted. He's losing it. He's yeah. Oh no. He's going down. I got I think it's there's blood. Oh my god. There's blood everywhere. Oh yes. Now close up on it. Slow mo. Oh no. You're going to look at it. Oh no. You're going to look at it. You're going to look at it closer.

Closer and faster. Look at it. You sicko. You like this. This is what you like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You love it. So James, I would have to say this might be this might be the most like gory movie we've done. I was trying to think of a movie that we've done in the past that would be the last one we just did. It's like the next next closest. The next closest for sure. But weirdly, it's not as the gore in that is so like American action movie that did not phase me almost as much.

And what it like alludes to rather than necessarily shows. Yeah. Right. Because like it's also the like yes, the sentiment or the purpose of it is just like, you know, he's a you know, he yeah, he's a psycho and he's you know, I don't know. It has this kind of now having seen this has a softness to it. That is weird. Weird to say it's like, yeah, you know, another one I was thinking of is we did. I'm sensor, right? Sensor maybe. Maybe. Yeah. That's upsetting stuff.

That was another one that was like what it was alluding to and just like upsetting imagery and editing at certain points. Yeah. I feel like that was a good. That's a good amount of our stuff. And like even like The Witch, a perfect film for me. It's like, yeah, me too. Doesn't even have really much to show besides just really like terror and dread. But this one I've I don't know if I've seen so much blood. Right. I was shocked. Maybe I'm a prude. I don't know. I know.

Well, this is a French movie, so we don't do a lot of like European movies. And this is very European. Yeah. That was exciting for me. I was like, oh, cool. Yeah, this is the most the most European movie as well. We've done a lot of firsts. I don't know. We did. We did a whole series. We did our little mini trip to Italy and Greece and as well. But you know, that's from the POV of two very British men. So there was nothing about that content was terribly European, but they were in Europe.

So I agree that that might be the closest. And then they're not even in Europe. And this one, they're actually in America in the States. Funny how that works. Funny how that works. Right. But it's nothing better than like European commentary on American culture in a way. I don't know. It's it's I think it's interesting to me. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. It's fun to watch a movie like that and so much. It's just it's just called Revenge.

It just it's it's the it's the perfect movie for us to do on our little revenge spree. I know. Yeah. A really solid button to the end of this revenge series. This is on. But yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot of butt shots. This which man again, it's just it's it was so noticeably different in its sensibilities towards sex, towards violence and that. Yeah, I just. Definitely it's not a frequent, you know, diet of mine to watch these European movies and to yeah, you know, the camera guy.

I'm not a big shutter guy. That's like it's me. It's like made by shutter for shutter. Right. Is the whole thing neon I believe is kind of kind of like one of those kind of is Bloomhouse adjacent almost. I feel like doing kind of just like thriller horrors, quarters kind of stuff. I could be wrong on that. But I feel like.

Yeah. The production of it wasn't for shutter, but the shutter is like the I would almost put it as like the eight twenty four of horror, like even though eight twenty four does horror. But it's like I think shutter from a like the network of horror or anything for sure. But like it is a distributor and and funds the distribution of these types of movies. And yeah, it's like. Wow. I. It's a shit. Twisted shit like this super fucking twisted as shit.

I mean, God, I, you know, at first I was like, what is this movie about? Why is it so like? Yeah, I was concerned a little bit of like, oh, what is this movie going to be about? Like, well, obviously it's going to be about title. But like, yeah, I had no idea how this was going to unfold. Me neither. I really didn't know. Even I tried to watch the trailer before I watched it. And even through the trailer, I turned it off, which I'm prone to do because trailers reveal too much.

And we watched it before the stream in the record today. But when I before I watched it the first time, I went to fall off the cliff. I was like, why is why is the trailer keep keep going? Why should it stopped a little bit ago? It's been like 50 seconds, 30 to 40 to 50 seconds. And that goes for like a minute and a half, two minutes. And then you know the whole movie. Oh, totally.

But I mean, they kind of have to do that, unfortunately, because most people haven't seen this movie will never see this movie. And so you really have to put so much of like the meat and potatoes of it to like get people interested. And I like to be, you know, I like a little tea. No, for sure. I like those teasers. It is definitely a fair critique on editing and production of trailers when it comes to like more populist movies or like, you know, something a little bit more.

Yeah, like as bigger names and stuff like when you see a trailer that does that, you're like, why? You know, I was probably going to see it anyways, because it's got whoever in it or, you know, this director, what have you. And but yeah, for this, it's understandable. But I nonetheless, I get where you're coming from, for sure. But yeah, I'm just curious right off the bat, like, how. Dore you about this after like during this movie? I'm trying to think like the scale of it.

And it is impressive how much it escalated as the movie went on when I was. Blown away pretty early and surprised at how quick things were escalating and then continued to. Be batch it. And I mean, it opened the opening is essentially a blowjob. And you see like pretty much a dude's booty hole while he's getting blown. I mean. More, more, more, more power to the to the movie to start a to start a film film like that.

And then I don't know, you see it paralleled later where he she's just she's having, you know, she's having orifice of hers. In sorry, but and then at the end, when he gets, she fucking puts her fingers in him when when he doesn't want it. And I don't know, some of that stuff was very like, oh, yeah. Right. The parallels of that. I'm getting too far into that, that sort of stuff. But I was like that they're opening the movie with a blowjob. And and then like it cut away during the blowjob.

And then that was a choice. There's some choices. And overall, I'm interested. I'm excited to get into those those choices and how your original question. I'm sorry, I'm going on so much about the other stuff. But I was I was disturbed. I was disturbed and early on and then kind of just like incredulous at some of the. Some of the things that continued to happen and how how the movie let it happen. And how about you, Brandini? Like what was your what was was it? Was it a bell curve?

Was it just launch into the. Yeah, I would. I would say it like exponentially increased for me because I guess at a point of plateaus because then it like kind of really sets in on like, OK, she's going to be fucking murdering these people. And but then but even then it takes a moment in the cave and then has that like consecutive dream sequence that like oh, I sit back up again.

And I was like, whoa, holy shit, because, yeah, like because right at a point, like once she starts the first murder, you're like I was like, OK, I know how this is going to go. So these like and it really set the pace because of how gruesome the first murder was. But I was like, OK, I'm I now I have a little bit of an expectation here as to how these other ones are going to go down, which they pretty much did that.

But the movie was surprising in the way that it all it still was able to like turn it up. You know, even. Yeah, just in general. Yeah. Having set all the pieces in place and really kind of telegraphed what the you know, the second act and back after the movie was going to be. So I take that turn very quickly, like those guys show up and then they have one night. I guess they have the one night together is is a little bit of calm before the storm.

But after that, in what he does, it just goes south and stays there for the rest of the movie. I mean, it's like a horror movie or like something on plenty of other fine films on shutter probably have is that sort of arc of a story. But man, I I think what happens to her was one of them, one of the more upsetting things to and how it happens in the overall demeanor of that guy and how he approaches it. It was it was effective in that way, but it's just so hard to watch.

And I think that's my disconnect with some of these movies. These you know, I appreciate the edge of a movie, you know, and when it's willing to go certain places, but other times were some restraint and bring it back in and not pushing the limits in certain other areas. For me, it's it's it would it would be more tasteful in my mind, but that could be just a personal taste as well. You know, they could be proving their point much as much.

I think they are with how heinous and brutal that act is with how heinous and brutal all of her what is what she's going to do to these guys, too. But in my mind, both are kind of just like I stylistically awesome. But there are points where I'm just like, oh, it's so twisted. Yeah, especially stylistically. Yeah, I'm definitely down to get into that that side of it, too. Totally.

I was just really curious after this of like, so are there is this like a thing like are there a lot of movies like this? Because it's obviously a blind spot to me because I haven't really seen a movie like this ever maybe. And I was curious about it. And this falls into a genre of French films that have been being made by a collection of directors that have been pushing this extreme. It's like called like extreme French horror or like it. But in French, it's like extreme cinema or whatever.

And you know, the the characteristics of it is that highly stylized visuals with very grotesque imagery that is also can be violent and sexual as well. And yeah, I mean, God, it's it's so interesting to me the change that happens because this movie starts off and you're like, oh, it's just two incredibly attractive people on this vacation.

And I thought it was going to be more about, you know, him, the guy, you know, having this family and then something, you know, like getting exposed to some degree and that being like the crux of what's going on, which, again, it just is so much of like a twist and subversion and of like it's leading me to believe these things and then flips that. And it makes me flat footed in that where I'm like, oh, because like especially so, for example, it clearly presents her as a sexual object.

And I'm like, yeah, she's incredibly attractive. And I'm like thinking about that of like, oh, she's very hot. Like, but why are we focusing so much on her sexuality and on how attractive she is? And the movie frames things in a way where it highlights that very purposely and then gets into a rape scene.

And then it just it's so crazy of a roller coaster that that ends up creating where you're like, oh, now I'm a disgusting person for almost even like being somewhat attracted to her because am I any better than the guys ogling her? Because so much of like before the rape is just like clear ogling of her beauty by these guys. And it like it edges you there a little bit to be like, oh, I'm not I'm just as bad as these guys because I'm like, but it's all purposeful direction as well.

Like the cameras being placed, like there was one scene where I'm like the camera is literally like at her crotch and you're seeing like a very clear outline of her crotch. And I'm like, why are we what kind of movie is this? Like it's gratuitous. Yeah. I mean, I think you're bringing up a fair point where it can be argued that the perspective of a lot of those shots is to be believed from all the guys that are around ogling her.

But there it is gratuitous, like just multiple shots of her ass just right, right. Just multiple. And that's all that's in the frame. So you have no other choice. And but then there is that one scene where she's bending over at like the lawn lounge chair or whatever. And his face is just like, like right next to it. And it's that that's to the point where it's just like cartoonish. And it's obvious, you know, it's trying to get that effect. And that's all these all these guys are doing.

And I don't know, it's it's it's it's effective. But whether it's subtle or not, you know, and whether it wants to be subtle is is, I guess, worth thinking about because I and what your taste is, I think that's just where where it comes down to is there's certain certain things that symbolically within the movie work and then there's other things where it's just not very subtle and a little like over the top and in my face about it.

And but yeah, overall, like how it yeah, how it's shot, I keep like I bring that up again, too, because it's just I think it's just a really well shot movie.

And I think there's a lot of really beautiful setups of shots and willingness to hold on things in a in a way that is a combination of excellence in cinematography, as well as the editing prowess to be able to hold on certain things a little bit longer to let it just date or even just the I think of the shot of him realizing that the the guy who gets blown away in the car isn't isn't coming back to the meeting point. And it just holds on the shot of him sitting there.

And then you see him kind of get frustrated, get up, get on his dirt bike and leave. And it's all one shot. But it's not one of you know, and there's one of those a good example of a one shot that stays on somebody was they're moving around. But this one just holds on a why like were these really beautiful wide shots? Yeah, compose like a painting. And then you see him right away and it holds a bit longer. And I think that it has a a purposeful pace and style to it.

That is a lot of fun to be a part of. And I think that that's part of the edge as well that I really enjoy. Yeah, absolutely. Especially out of all the movies we've we've covered, man. I mean, this one has I don't know, this one has the most style for sure. Oh, absolutely. Like almost like far and away. Yeah, no color. No contest on. Yeah, has so much of a like its own language. It's yeah. Oh, yeah. Its own style that is so unique to it. And I agree.

You know, because it's always so thrilling to watch a movie that is well directed in this because it like where the camera is, how and what it where, you know, what it focuses on and also to how it just presents a bunch of themes and elements in interesting ways is so fun, you know, because like the Punisher, for example, is so like like competent film.

Yes, we clearly can see the characters in the frame and we're getting from point A to point B, but it just it takes so much more like it's so much more fun and interesting when you aren't when you're doing exactly what you said or there's there's really so many shots in this that are exciting and like it's so weird to say enjoyable, right, because this movie is so grotesque. Oh, yeah, it's upsetting. It's super upsetting.

But you those in those moments, you kind of can't look away almost, but you but you want to. But for the rest of it, it does have such an acceleration. And when you bring up the Punisher, I think of one of the things that I criticize about that one and to an extent law abiding citizen, whatever these kind of moments where a person has decided that they are going to change their nature and take revenge upon those who have wronged them.

And in the movies that we've watched, especially the Punisher, what you just brought up that happens extremely quickly and in the montage and he doesn't say fucking shit the whole time. He just like gets up. He's like, Yep, I'm just going to go do it. And he's pretty quiet the rest of the rest of the movie. He doesn't really say, you know, whatever he's he's brooding. He's brooding the whole movie. It's it's he's just brooding.

But the moment of her by herself in the cave had more character development than that movie did, you know, as far as that transition of what he has to do. And this could be because of some things that I like as well, which is the scale of the of everything is pretty small and and and the time it just takes place over like a day or two, whatever. And it is survival. Like it's it's a it's a you don't have a choice.

You have it's not only that you you want to take revenge, like you have to to survive to survive and make it out. And I think that's so much more compelling and just justified within what she has chosen to do and everything, whether it's believable. There's a lot of things that, you know, that's a whole maybe a whole nother conversation. But character development and and wants and needs within within the scale.

It like lends itself to my enjoyment, coupled with the style that it had going for it as well. And some interesting choices were, yeah, like what does what does he even do? The guy like he's just kind of vague. He's just kind of into some fucked up shit. Yeah, he's like he's just a rich white guy. I mean, that's the extent of it. Right. And these guys are going hunting like I was there and I'm trying for him. What is what I want to know in the desert?

I know he found one fucking rabbit that was like bled out already. Yeah, but yeah, the rabbit had so much fucking it was the brightest reddest blood in the world. Right. And that was his move to like throw the carcass on the car. Like what a weird move that is like. Oh, great. So now I can't see it. There's blood all over the fucking windshield. Like you know, but he's a sick fuck, you know, and he did. There's so many. And God, that's when you realize he was the problem.

It was blurry at first, but then he became clear. It's you. You're the problem. Whoa, deep. I just. I see now I see through. You know, it is interesting that you bring up the because we definitely talked a lot about it on law abiding citizen of if you think deeper into the plot of it, it falls apart and that's such a like a problem of, you know, this movie of that movie and Punisher a little bit too.

And it's weird how if you think about this movie, it doesn't necessarily fall apart because it's so sound and what's happening. It's just I get. But the point that you brought up that I want to dig into is like I do get that she was a model. So her ability to survive, to wield guns, to do all of these actions seems pretty far fetch that she would like be able to know how to do that. But it is it is not.

It's not something that you if you it's not the same effect, though, if you think about that longer, it falls apart because to me, it's like you said is he is in survival mode. So I don't know. It isn't so much about like, why is she there or why is that person there? You know, kind of those like logistics of the plot. It's just OK. It is a little bit far fetched, but that's not as big of a problem.

You know, if you were to consider it, sure, a critique that you can make, but it's not nearly as much of a problem as to like why Jamie Foxx is in every scenario. His job is, you know, a lawyer like or how all of these specific things had to come together perfectly in order for Gerard Butler's plan to work like because the scope and the scale of that movie is is massive.

He's tearing he's tearing down the whole system like in order to do that and in order to show him as like this master tinkerer, then he's got to do some some pretty amazing stuff. But this one, I think you mentioned logistics and I think there is. I agree with you where it is isn't as big of a deal for me and I'm still able to enjoy myself, but I think it does get knocked a little bit for me about the choices that they make where it could be.

It could be a bit more believable had they made like maybe some of their choices about just giving her a little bit of help in terms of finding her way out of that. And maybe that ruins the believability of like, you know, what kind of help are you going to get out there? But having her fall off a cliff and get fucking impaled through her back and out of her abdomen is something that as as cinematically satisfying and the imagery that they wanted that maybe those strike and maybe not satisfy.

And for these twisted fucks out there, oh yeah, oh yeah, it's an impale scene. Got it. Oh, shutter. Oh, where's the category for impalement? And like the blood dripping on the ants and all that stuff, like the microscopic photography. That was cool. It was crazy, but I was like, how do I feel bad for ants? Because he just make the microscopic thing look so big. And what about that spider getting pissed on too, right? Yeah, we did. Oh my God. It just sat with it.

It was like, we're going to watch him piss on this spider. I was like, wow, we wow, we're going to see this spider just die in piss right now. Like, yeah, I thought it was going to be such a quick thing of like he pisses on it, runs away end of it. But it's like, no, we're going to fucking show you. I know. Right. And it could have been an easy like, oh, he's in for the spider.

Anyways, next scene it was like, no, he has drank a lot today and he's going to use that as ammunition to drown out the spider spider's life, which means nothing to him. Life means nothing to him. Like I know it's just like trying to show even even more, but in this way and like, and the cutting cutting of it, just the stream of piss that just like was just like, just like, just kept going.

Like a fire just drowned it was it's something that's like such a choice and such a stylistic thing that adds just that to a movie instead of necessarily like plot or anything. It's just let's add a little bit more color to do this. And then this person's mind, it's some twisted shit with bugs and stuff. But as to go back to like the believability of it all, you know, her getting impaled, probably some organs in there that are going to going to be fucked up. She goes to her cave.

It's one thing to to to solder or fucking cauterize some shit with with a fire. But I don't know, you got to suture that shit. You got to get you got to stitch that upside. You know, it's a but this is again, this is no way like ruins the movie for me, but it's just some stuff that like kind of surprising. I would say surprisingly not. Right. Yeah, you're also because you're right. Like you think about it. Yeah. But then like that branding thing is so fucking cool. So cool.

Like iconic and everything. It's like whatever, like, like, just make it so that could happen is kind of it. And I'm trying to think, oh, I don't know, like where she could have got a different injury or they did something else. But you see that you're like, whatever, like, whatever. She's got this cool like, yeah, beer. Like, yeah, like emblem on her.

And it is funny, too, because I think it's part of the language of the movie to like, you know, things in this movie are totally believable or maybe she is somewhat super human. And I think because this being a female director, I think she's really playing on the fact that there's been so many male driven action movies where they do get super fucked up, but somehow are able to like, you know, put themselves together and then take down a whole group of bad guys. And that's almost like common.

So like John McClane didn't have shoes. Right. I mean, this guy gets some fucking glass up the hall. That was like my least favorite. That was mine, too. I'm glad you brought that up. I hate that was so much. I fucking hated it, which is so interesting, right? Because again, it's just the end the scene. And it's just this huge fucking cut in his foot. And he's like squishing it together to get it out. And it's and again, he actually looks happy when he got it out. He is like, oh, oh, thank God.

Oh, oh, yeah. Because I mean, I've I've gotten a shard of glass in my body before. And yeah, it's like you definitely it's almost like, yeah, a relief. You're like, oh, thank God, because it's just this stiff piece in in your skin is like really fucking awful. But yeah, like again, but see, that's it. That is so interesting. That both of us were so taken aback by that. In when in this movie. Easily arguable, more fucked up shit happens. But the foot glass thing is what gets you.

And it's just and it's such a like really great understanding of the human brain and psyche where you're like, yeah, is this particular thing is going to elicit this strong reaction? And it's like, if anything, like, why didn't we feel, you know, why is this affecting me more than like arguably the rape scene? Like you could even make that argument that like it is terrible and unsettling and awful and disgusting. I want to throw up. But like there's some there's like.

They're both very strong in what they're doing. And they have like these different they sit at different places. But and it's just so interesting to look back and be like, this is how I felt about this thing and this is how I felt about this other thing in the movie and how each one is eliciting these different responses and some being more visceral, some being more psychological and all of that.

And it's just this movie oscillates all over the place with like how you like, yeah, I don't know what what it's deriving from you. And you have to confront that feeling because this is the most I think I could easily say the most uncomfortable I've been watching movie.

And just to all these weird varying degrees to you know, when I get I mean in that in that scene, in particular, the foot scene, it gets so close up to it and everything in the movie that's going so fast in that moment between this chase between two people. Screeches to a halt so we can deal with this. It's like stop everything. And she does his flashlight move. And then he has to just focus in on just figuring that out.

And we all have to figure it out with him and it's just so close up on the foot and the blood in this movie, like the trail, the trails alone are just copious amounts of blood or have been porn by so many people in this movie. It's pretty amazing. But he's just like pouring. This guy has gone, he's gone through a lot, right? Rightfully so. And so in many ways, but good, right? Good. He fucking sucks. He's awful. He's a terrible person. Like he's the one who raped her like this. He is the worst.

And yeah, but again, you're like, oh, I don't like this. It makes you couldn't I mean, makes you confront that I guess in some way. But also it's like, it makes me think of like 70s horror movies, which I'm not super familiar with. I'm mentioning that and I'm not familiar with the French movement of cinema where the 70s sort of styling is kind of that brutality and things like I spit on your grave or with that one with is it like Dustin Hoff and straw dogs? Is that what it's called?

I think it's just another like revenge thing where, you know, people get revenge on the fucked up, you know, realistic monsters that are purportedly like really out there, you know, sort of thing. And then and then those people like take it, take the hurt back back to them and use use that method or you're like, I'm trying to remember last house on the left, but that has some I remember that one has an original one really fucked up.

Yeah. And it reminded me of that kind of stuff where it was like really exploring just brutality in a in a gristle down like almost realistic way. This one goes to goes to different lengths where I find it very Tarantino ish and Robert Rod Rodriguez see a little bit at times.

Grindhouse he for sure, especially with the branding thing that just reminded me of like trying to make an iconic character about her look and when she emerges from the cave and that is meant to have elicit a certain response. But man, she fucking does peyote. We should talk about that. So to that point is like when this movie and I and you know, I'm sure it is because it is directed and written by a female like this is such a feminist movie where she is very capable. She like I don't know.

I like it. She's such a capable person and it's so like interesting that she seems so like a so helpless in the beginning leading up to the to her getting impaled and the turnaround for her being you know from being uncut or incapable to being very capable is just such a strong message in this movie. You know, she figures out the things that she needs to figure out.

She takes control of the situation and she really fucking gets it to these fucking monsters and also to like the villain in this movie is the strongest villain out of this revenge series in my mind because you threw out it.

I was like this guy could accomplish what he wants to do of killing her pretending it's an accident and just like being done with her like the it was so realistic that he could get away with this unlike any of the other movies where it's very unrealistic that these villains get away with their plans and then some of them it's like kind of like with John Travolta you're like what is your plan again? This is just clearly like he yeah he's like I this girl will go tell somebody that she was raped.

My wife will find out about it. My job my whole life is going to get ruined by this so I'm going to deal with it this way and it just seemed like yeah he could probably he could probably like get rid of her and not have like the fallout really from it and so that made it so much the stakes higher for me scarier to me such a more believable villain you know that he was because it's just so fucking realistic and it's so crazy yeah.

That's all you really needed to know about him that says everything about his character and that in that moment of how he reacted to what happened to her where I almost there was a part of me of like well I kind of want to know a little bit more about him you know whatever his like family life or whatever for a second and then like the minute like he reacts like that that just says everything you need to know about who this person is

you already know he's sleeping around but to know yeah that he immediately goes to a cover story to blaming to physical abuse like all within like so so quickly and five minutes and then chase and then chases her out like that all happened so quickly and the yeah even that restraint of being able restraint in certain areas you know of like having those quiet shot of them running away of the wide and then just running in you know away from

frame and no no sound and anything like that kind of stuff just is one of those things I love where it's like well what if we did the opposite of of what people would maybe expect or subvert in a way that's satisfying you know sometimes it's it's too ill effect or it's too much but I prefer that and I applaud that rather than a movie where it's like yeah you get it we're gonna do montage and get to the good stuff where that's what you really

want and to see this yeah you this person you said the director I believe it's her first film that she's ever done which you know that's pretty fucking cool to have such a voice and to create I think she might have written it too I could be wrong I think so but into the character herself is has an iconic sort of look and or and like her own kind of like origin story whatever I'm not trying to like make hero five this whatever but it like has

a story and action that I can glob on to in an entertaining way while still having like shocking elements that push that pushed me a bit but never to the point where I'm like completely turned off I'm always kind of just like ooh like I'm turning away but then I'm kind of back in it and you know the the creative ways in which she goes about her her you know kind of her plan I guess she's really playing she's just going going with it but I noticed

almost every time that she made a move on one of the guys they were like I think a couple times they would put their gun down and go take a piss and we're like go like at the end he went to go take a shower and it was always like around that time that she would she would kind of show up and it was yeah it was just some sort of nice parallel to that and the within rhythm within the action even with those separate separate things the

guy you know the guy in the in the water or whatever that that she just stabbed stabs his eyes out that was I mean that that rhythm of action was so good because you just it was like one one thrust down into the water you see the knife for like a hot second and then back up and then second time back down you see a little bit better back up and then third time she fucking grabs it and now that I just I love that that's a satisfying rhythm

to it and that gun I thought was kind of cool looking it was so big but it was like oh yeah that just kind of looks like a shape to it that like looks different than anything I've seen yeah it's like this massive gun with a scope on it yeah it was like kind of like a shotgun oh totally and then she does her cave thing and then the two the two guys they have because I'm trying to think of like some of the iconic scenes and we can roll on to

some reviews but the when them with them kind of sitting at the lake disposing of their buddy's body even something as as like this is the simplicity of the editing and ability to shoot that scene and make it interesting too I don't know if him going back into the car rolling down the window and the and like we talked about the blood with the hair and trying to clean it and things out of focus becoming in focus and then he breaks his note

that was kind of out of nowhere too but also just like fuck him but he he he like questioned him or whatever and he just turns around and cocks cocks his fist and explodes on his nose and he just that's how that's how tough guys say right yeah just cocks and explodes on his nose yeah it explodes and then the whole little chase of that guy I thought was a nice little cat so sad mouse it's cool through them through the mountains and then him like

running out of gas was a really effective sort of tension builder yeah and he's kind of just like he got the he got the eye so I don't know what year this takes place but it's not like it's seems like she either didn't bring her phone or she brought her iPod Nano which I think is just a nice fun detail of her pink iPod Nano but he's like listening to her iPod Nano and the songs there and everything I'm man I'm thinking about the the peyote

too just a touch on that like that was such an interesting way because it was almost magical realism at that point as it is yeah and then gets into the dream sequence survive that because even all the criticism that I levied against it of like oh how believable is that that she's able to heal her wound in that moment well you don't have any magical peyote you'd have to combine with this beer can that might together create some sort of healing

elixir especially if some wrong has been done to you maybe the peyote knows and it's and it's gonna help you on your quest to get vengeance you don't know no but nonetheless it makes you think differently so yeah like told her senses and she just like zoned out and then did what needed to be done yeah yeah and so much time and attention is paid to her eyes and what's going on behind them there's so much thought and processing that I was really

enraptured by where I was like she's really kind of out of it and like in this liminal space of like fuck what do I do I think I I know what I need to do but do I want to do it and there's all this back and forth that's happening in her head and then just the whole process of like this can and looking at it and being like I know I have to like close this wound up this is how I'm gonna go about doing it and then you know it then

it causes her to to have the um that dream sequence where a fucking head explodes oh my god blown away multiple dream sequence and yeah because it was like in quick succession and it's fed up and like it one would happen and that was like a full kind of slower version and then it like happened really quickly and then day and the night and then day and the night kind of like she'd wake up at night and then wake up again it was day and then

wake up again it was night uh-huh yeah man and yeah it's it is funny that she cauterizes her her stomach wound with this beer can by putting it on putting the beer can through the are using the knife to cut off the the like the uh the beer can to then put it on the fire to heat it up to then place it on her and it is kind of funny that the wound not like really just doesn't exist anymore after that point yeah because i was i was

really like or like just being a little stickler in my mind at that moment for uh like what about her back wound like that's the entry point this is just where it exited like she should probably be be worried because she broke it off in front i'm like is that all that like what about i guess it just right and then uh but then it would it showed a few shots of her back that was like all black and everything so it was just i was like okay

i guess they're kind of showing you and wanting you to assume that it burned she burned the back and and it closed it all up there as well um but now i'm even remembering how she got off being impaled like the whole fire thing she like lit the brush around the stump of the the tree branch on fire and like that was the way she was able to like kind of shimmy out and break the stump i guess for the trunk of it like like weaken it to then be able

to like kind of like throw momentum to break it yeah yeah i don't know that was kind of like a little bit of like okay whatever just i mean yeah right but it almost seems nitpicky because it's just you're right no you're right this movie and though but the reason that i would say that it would be nitpicky is because it i think i i want to give the movie credit that it has been stylized to this point that it is like a tarantino movie where you're

like this is it's it's almost like this is happening for the sake of like yeah the style lends itself to be like it doesn't have to be exactly how it would go down but it's like what is like the it's cool i want to say like the coolest yeah right like what is the shot of like the burning tree or whatever yeah no you're right yeah i agree there's no reason like other people can't do cool stylistic shit too and and i think and it's all cohesive

in a way too it like this it's not necessarily out of place no definitely not especially as the movie ramps up you it kind of fits right in with everything else going on if that would have been the only thing then maybe you would you know i could be more critical or whatever but i yeah i'm just it's when you watch a movie you make notes in your head there's there's certain things that that come up but i think you're totally right within

the framing of it all um it just moves things and then into the next uh part uh in a fun interesting way and then there's a big showdown uh at the end that's just like a fucking blood bath in in those halls and i think it is also another like i want to say like a feminist bent on it where he is the nude one to me i was like oh this i feel like something's being said here that he's vulnerable he's nude he's the one that's like scared and there's

like this you know he's afraid that she's going to like appear out of nowhere and kill him and all of that she's in the house and sees the guy through the pink glass with gun and at the end he sees her with the gun in the blue glass exactly right i mean i like no i like it i like it i'm just i'm too stupid to fully flesh out what everything means i i just am glad that there is some underlying symbology that doesn't need to be spelled

out as well but i'm just that noise was kind of just like really it's it's cool but i'm kind of stupid to break everything down even like the apple stuff and everything i'm like there's some serious meaning being ascribed to this too that i'm maybe too dumb to get like carnal carnal sin i don't know right knowledge of good and evil and it's like rotting and yeah i was trying to snow white fuck right all of those yeah you could ascribe so many

meanings to things because it presents itself like a work of art where it is strong imagery that is like it's up to the viewer to like kind of decipher what it is it's just presenting things that are really striking really evocative and and yeah you can kind of like do the mental gymnastics to be like oh this is what i think that you're talking about and it just it's so layered how fucking interesting this movie ends up being for what it is because it's

really not all like arguably like we said at the scale of it is small so it's not like a ton of stuff happens but there is it is colored like all the way through if you were to consider this a coloring book like every every part of it is colored in with something and it just makes it for such a feast of like oh wow this is happening oh what does this mean or like oh man like really no loose ends or anything either no like it's very cut and

dry like everybody you know all the bad guys get fucking murdered by the woman that they thought that they had power over and they had no power and she has all the power now and you leave it and you're like okay like you know mission accomplished like it's like it's there's so much like satisfying shit in this where you're like yeah like because we've talked about it too like in law abiding citizen like how funny it is that they set

up the the guy that mur that like almost rapes his wife and law abiding citizen like how bad of a guy he is and they like clearly go to lengths to be like this guy's a huge piece of shit but like this movie does that too you know it really sets up that these guys are huge pieces of shit but it doesn't in a way that's not as like egregious or like as like noticeably like we get it he's a super huge piece of shit you know and then I never

felt that way because it was always grounded in like this could happen this is this potentially is a person I'm not potentially but I'm sure there are people out there like that they're that are these you know these men that are egotistical that think that they can do whatever the fuck they want and there's no real repercussions for it and so on and so forth and the complicit nature of the other guy who comes in eating snacks and just walks away and goes swimming

law abiding citizen does take this sort of pity on that guy that's like hey man we shouldn't do this I mean he gets super fucked up by drawer but learn nonetheless but this movie from it differentiates from the ones that we've done in the past as well which have been all angry dudes that are pissed off at this the system kinda and want to change it and affect it and and take vengeance upon what has been done to them that they feel

like the job isn't being done properly by those systematic things in place that should do it for them and that's a lot to kind of juggle within a movie sometimes certain ones can be done very very effective effectively you know as a Batman is is probably my favorite superhero and and I'm a big Dark Knight guy and there's there's ways to do it but this one again I go back to the the survival element and and the scope of it all puts it all all

the onus on her and in her hands of about you know survivor or die and you have these are the things that you have to do and you don't have a choice and all the bullshit is kind of paired away and you don't have to explain too much and you can get into more stylistic things because you've been offered that by the tight script and location and setting that you've placed upon it and I love that it's it's really placed in her own hands

to get it done and it feels manic at times and she it's not perfect she gets her ear blown off to later on and and it gets really fucking messy at that the mono Emano part but like literally messy like the amount of blood that is it happens in that because he's like up against the wall completely nude with the shotgun waiting for her to walk in and she's and and then she is indicated that he's behind that wall by this enormous pool of blood that's right it looks like a bucket just the hallway

just like a bucket like tipped over and and it's just this fucking massive thing and then in the hallway there's just like blood flying all over the place and it's just so gory and gruesome my god this movie is gory yeah and it's uh in a way makes it that reminds me Tarantino as well but it just makes you kind of revel in it at a certain point when you realize that's what it is and it's it's just going to amp up from there and it just remains

interesting and she's she stands off at the end and then looks down the barrel of the camera and and we roll credits and uh i think that we did our due diligence uh covering this covering this film this revenge film uh i agree but before we get it called revenge i'm trying to take a look at my notes here uh so one one thing i just i feel remissed uh if we did if i didn't bring up is that fucking what is it that usa like channel commercial

i can only imagine them filming that and and realizing they didn't have enough footage for the scene we're like i guess we're gonna play it again yeah it's just gonna play over and over again the same shit and later like it it jumped into some of them actually selling like a ring or something like that the hires club or it was i was so close to being realistic i feel like it was like very close but there's something that was just a little off like

shop shop unc or so it was some weird website that it was like advertising that was like that doesn't sound good yeah it was like i think i think it was called like usa shop club yeah something like that um or something but i was like stuff like commercials out there like and i was trying to place the time period on that too with like ipod nano and how that how that commercial looked and some of the speaker equipment but i don't know

that was that was something that just like so cool to know that there was information that they felt no need to share with us they're just like yeah it's not important you can you can glean that yourself if you look close enough but we don't need to tell you you know because it's not important enough to talk about like come on jeffrey it's 2007 get it together when he's talking about get the turn the aircon off in the car it's unenvironmental

so funny that he yeah he's an environmentalist you know but he has no problem fucking killing a person but yeah turn that fucking ac you just get so pissed about it uh the little juicy peachy ass it's like an alien coming from another planet uh-huh yes i like that one not get that at all i don't get it i don't get it why is a peachy ass something that's yeah an alien ass i don't understand uh binoculars close oh yeah when they were just looking

at the binoculars like that super close next to each other that was just they were literally ogling her with binoculars like sitting right there just like binoculars um a polish guy saw his own leg off oh that was like some anecdote in the movie oh she fits the peyote in the locket it almost looked like it didn't can fit but it wasn't that much so yeah it works it was a fun little thing because the locket was such a part of her outfit same

with the uh i heart la oh i'm realizing i have here what a song selection is the note oh yes very a lot of um like that fidget house that we used to listen to it a lot of the music reminded me of yeah you shared like what is a brodinski and then it reminded me of like mr orzo and sure like jejotronic almost at times yeah it was like the scene was kind of like she's gonna she's kind of dancing for them and they're and they're having

a party night and she asked to dance with uh her guy and he says no and then dances with the other guy but when she first puts the music on you think it's going to be like some sultry kind of like uh like lounge desert music or something is my guess i guess yeah or a sexy pop song i guess yeah sure like something but then i'm going to play what she does put on it is funny to think that she picks this song out yeah i i think it's

like and like you're supposed to like kind of do have like a sexy slow dance to this are you putting it on in the watch yeah look i i shared my screen if you want to check it out uh brandy i just thought this was such an interesting choice of her to be like yeah let's do a little dance and then she puts this on this shit goes hard i just want to get to the one like vocal part like if someone asked me to like get up and dance to this i'd be like oh

all right i had to i had to share that i'm glad you did because yeah there's there's a lot of those sides and then there's that moment too where he like is so incredibly stylized where he's driving on the motorcycle at night and it's like the camera yes in front of him and it almost looked like it was in a sound stage it was so stylized because the camera is like is like because you can't see anything behind him and it's just this red red light and him on the

motorcycle and there's and this movie's fraught with with shit like that you know yeah like a little interstitial stuff like the guy being a fucking iguana i love that yes like he's a lizard man no she never says like you're a lizard she just like you're a lizard peyote told me that you're a lizard and i have to kill you it never says anything about it but that's what i know and it's so funny because the peyote was given to them right because by the helicopter driver

i wanted to catch up with him he's like you're alive did you you know you know that something help you along the way did you get a sign came in like a package that was so like i was like is that like candy because it was like i don't know it's so weird and she didn't like it at first and she spit it out and then ate it off the ground that was like such yeah yeah i get it it's probably gross tasting um the she plays that little phone game when he's trying to make conversation with

her and i was those were coming out from a game boy that's what i wrote down i was like is she playing like snake on her phone like yeah it was so like beep boop beep boop i guess what year is it i don't know i should see what the phone game is maybe she's got a nokia she's yeah maybe she is i don't know um let's see oh yeah they didn't follow up with the guy after he said he caught her i mean yeah they like fell asleep in the car the other guy went out and hunting all night and they woke

up the next day and were like oh he's not back yet that's interesting it's like uh probably figure out something might have gone wrong but anyways um yeah i think that's when the sock tourniquet i thought that was pretty brutal he like is shot through the shoulder and you know he takes his sock off and does that and grabs it with his teeth that was i don't know it was just a memorable moment um saran wraps uh that guy does the saran wrap across his belly that was such a funny quick

thing he's like ah he's just like saran wraps himself really quick i gotta save myself for later here that should be the name of our upcoming album a saran wrap and the picture of him just like saran wrapping a bullet wound there's so much of that in this movie it's just people screaming by themselves well let's uh let's remind ourselves of these numbies uh before we get into some reveals after you do the numbies i want to ask the question of why you think this movie is polarizing

before we get into before we get into it yeah it's a 93 by critics a 58 by audience why i think it's polarizing is especially yeah from the audience i mean versus critics and we watched the trailer before this and it looked like some of the critics were really hailing it as an empower like some of it some of the lines were saying like this is empowering this is a female empowerment female empower empowering uh movie and uh i don't know what i mean by this maybe it's just something that

like critics might use as a way to to make their point about some something else too maybe that's what this movie's point is uh so maybe it's it's rightfully done rightfully so maybe that is the whole point um because this is 2017 so this is the me too movement's happening right now that's true that's true i it's and that could be it and that's i'm just trying to differentiate because we don't have too many like critics favored over the audience and i guess that would be the question

why do critics love it so much why do audiences not like it and why critics like it so much i think that subversion of the revenge tale is interesting i think it is artfully done style again all the stylistic choices i think agree pander maybe not trying to pander but it cater to and our creators a critic's sense of sensibility within a movie and it's maximalist purposefully so and i think critics will recognize that and laud it when it's

done properly and i think this is a maximalist thing that's done stylistically with which is a tough thing to juggle uh why audiences hate it um i think some of those little nitpicky things i brought up earlier i think they honed in on those a bit more and it's unrealistic and didn't like uh how unbelievable some of those moments were and i but yeah again i'm trying to think if like this was a guy doing all this shit if if they would care as much or maybe i'm

i would i'm i know they would it's just it's just it's just getting impaled on a stick and then gluing yourself together with a beer can and a fire and peyote maybe they they just like turn off at that point maybe it's the overly overtly like gruesome nature of it all uh and in their mind they yeah i think it's like senseless um which i've even said some version of that argument in this in this uh podcast but uh and moments but i think that the believable yeah those nitpicky

i think they're honing on that that's my thing do you have enough uh no yeah i mean to me it's easy to understand why critics like this movie but and it's it's it takes more thought to understand why in my mind at least why audiences don't like this because the reason being is when you have head exploding when you have the stabbing in the head and then you know that gruesome look to the guy and all of that and there's a couple others you know obvious things in this movie that are really

brutal like those are so stylish to me that that's why it's more like i'm on i don't care as much about the like realisticness of the plot stuff that you're talking about but i i completely agree with you that i think audiences don't like this because they're like oh it's unrealistic like how could she have like fundamentally how could she survive didn't fall that high with an impalement and still live to live another day live to fight again and you just can't get past that you know

yeah and i think i find myself more and more especially through this conversation getting past it you know and whatever saying you know you didn't and i didn't have that much hang-ups to be and there was like a couple little hiccups rather than hang-ups a little like whatever you can we can move on hopefully it just goes away and whatever and drink some water just a little bit of gas a little bit of gas that's all but uh it's yeah it's i think through this conversation

we've kind of tapped into what it's doing as a whole um but those yeah those finer elements i think yeah it may kind of make sense while it's polarizing too like not everyone's gonna like this movie it's not a movie that i'd be like i'd recommend to everybody like no definitely not because then you would almost feel like a psycho if you were you know like that's the funny thing because i was thinking about it because we're at the point of the podcast where i'm thinking

about my score right and thinking about how i feel about this movie and that's why i wanted to have this little conversation before we get into people like specifically telling us how they feel about it totally yeah like inform us but like yeah we can give our score first if you want no no no it's okay but like it is a gross fucking movie yeah and it's weird to recommend it or like and it is weird to think because i'm gonna hold true because that's how i feel in life is like i'm gonna

hold true to how i feel about this regardless of how people think about it but like i get not liking this movie fundamentally on the basis of it is very gory very gross has a rape scene in it so that for some people it's gonna be like uh definitely no thanks hard pass like you know i'm not gonna how could i like this movie that has that has that kind of content in it and so i just think that this is again a wonderful movie to do on this podcast because it is definitely it yeah like

it this movie is definitely not for everyone and it makes sense why it's polarizing and um yeah good time yeah yeah totally agree uh well uh let's share some critic reviews from the spicy 90s side um we'll start with los angeles times katie walsh a 90 this rape revenge story swaps points of view but it doesn't break the mold the characters archetypes and beats are familiar which allows uh far far yet farjot to play with symbolism in a bold pointed manner that's the director far

of a job um let's see from let's don't go with vanity fair and 80 from chaos and collins farjot gets her thrills from all the bad things that make her genre great cinematography that's rancid with heat and color sound design that delights in every exaggerated crunch and squish i'm really happy they're bringing up the sound design because that's something that we didn't really talk about at all but uh we've touched on it like the no sound and the her getting chased

and you know your ear shot off and then the water in and out of that and um i that all that stuff adds to it so much and and uh in this in a subtle and almost um subconscious way um yes because that also too is part of this uh like cinema extreme genre is sound was brought up when i was looking at like a characteristics of it and also in particular because the rape scene in this is actually very much of that where it specifically mentions that something that happens in cinema

extreme is when it comes to something like a violent sexual act you lean on not showing the act it's like visually showing it but to include the sound of it because they feel like what your mind does at that point is more is more evocative than if we were to just show it to you like in that moment let we're going to do this thing where you're actually going to pick up the the ball and take yourself to that place and we're just going to include the sound further than they ever

could because yeah you're in there in yourself what what a little come up in the machinations that can come up with are so much more frightening than anything anybody can objectively do when it's a certain thing artistic things that are so subjective i think that's that's just smart smart filmmaking yeah he walks away puts on the race and then jumps in the water and drowns out drowns it out at much like i'm sure the audience wants to do in that moment too

right which then also puts you in like you're such a like accomplice to it and then makes you feel an accomplice in another type of way about it and it just really so in nuance like it's crazy to see such a graphic sexual violence in that way that is so blunt but so nuanced at the same time really fascinating stuff let's do new york times a.o scott with an 80 revenge leaves a lurid punchy after image an impression somewhere between righteous delight and quivering revulsion

it's both a challenge and a calling card in which miss farjah at once exposes what's wrong with her chosen genre and demonstrates her mastery of it wow that's what critics are there for that i really like to they just they put that where you're using the form to almost sat satirize it in a way um from hollywood reporter david rooney in 80 this is a rape retaliation thriller both tautly controlled and wildly over the top execute executed with flashy style sly visual humor and

subversive feminist sensibility um let's do one more because it's from the atlantic with the 70 from our dear dear hero david sims um no we i'm standing i'm i know i'm simping sims oh he wouldn't like this how would i know swerving between thrill a minute action and intense drawn out suspense revenge has all the subtlety of a bazooka to the face but it's an arresting watch if you can stomach its most lurid moments of violence yep nailed it yeah let's check out the

audience side of things where you know you you see some other places on on the web and they know they're not quite so harsh uh it's rated a little bit more favor favorably some places like amazon um but on rotten tomatoes it is a what was it a 53 58 sorry 58 um let's hear from some people are not so spicy a little bit more icy uh from kaya tim sing flora 75 one star out of five wow i mean wow she is wounded like in the lumbar region of the abdomen but she

took out the branch of the tree as if she is a surgeon herself she escaped the place from three men point to be noted that she is wounded she cuts her own abdomen and seals it with a beer can and most surprisingly she gets a nice tattoo in that place at the atm she was at the moment she was doing the surgery with a knife and cutting the stomach however she wants she also travels a long way to find them not to be forgotten that they were in the middle of the desert and she finds them

she travels even after losing so much blood i think probably i studied that a human body has five liters of blood but this amazing woman has gotten more than that this whole movie should have been a comedy movie that was like hard to even get through because it didn't make it was just like not full sentences it was 70 people found that helpful though um and then there's like another one like here from julius casual log of five or sorry one star out of five what a big joke of a

movie she is a mutant and then goes on to like list all those the cinema sins and what's wrong with it she should not have survived the fall blah blah blah apparently has 100 more times more blood than a normal person she got a huge hole in her stomach which heals completely like this is yeah these are a lot of the reviews that we're gonna find here are the are gonna be these knit that we're gonna find here are the are gonna be these knit nitpicky sort of things um from senti

m chin one star well at least i managed to finish it before i could waste more time fast forward is it even possible to survive after that fall and more shocking the amount of blood she lost is more than 10 times a normal human has and that tattoo she all this this is the same review and the tattoo that she got from that can and how that gaping hole both in front and the front and behind just managed to heal had me in splits i mean can the human skin and flesh melt and join like plastic

it's all just so funny and unrealistic gosh what a lie for a movie um i'll do like one maybe two more but they like i just went through like five and even some i didn't i not reading reading the loud and stuff where it's just really those same same nitpicks and i feel like an idiot not an idiot sorry but i just feel like me echoing some of those points too it's it's i've sound like some of these people but i liked it a lot more than them it's just a bummer that they can't get over

some of the stuff um from jenna fox one star out of five the main character is unlikable she is knowingly dating a married man and parades around half naked around his friends and grinds on them yet she acts shocked when they want to have sex with her okay oh boy oh we okay yeah okay that's where we're gonna just push off yeah i'm sorry about that i don't even have to read i'm sorry i'm reading i should i should vet no it's apologize for somebody else's opinion that

you don't share don't apologize but if anything i'm glad that you brought it up but we should now move away from it because of how disgusting that take is because yeah it's like oh okay so because it's like the argument like well she what she was wearing she asked for it like mentality you're like fuck off like that is crazy to me that that that is in there i mean it's that everyone has their opinion and they can share it share it outwardly onto the onto the internet and then

to get into it it's it's kind of surprising i think that has been surprising in the audience side this stretch has been how people interpret the villains in these movies every time i feel like in these in these revenge movies there's some and maybe a little bit more understandable with a movie like law abiding citizen where that movie is really trying to get you to like kind of under like you get how jar butler jerry b got sympathized with like um and and and there's a lot of people that

were on his sign and those reviews you got road rager russell crow uh you know his his whole thing and people signing with that it's just it's interesting seeing people go go through the mental gymnastics to to rationalize some of that stuff but then have such a fucking issue issue with fucking a cool fucking beer can you know right but branding you know god forbid yeah but you could watch kill bill and she blows out through a coffin in the ground

and like but there's a half hour explanation for that sure but like okay you're being funny like you know you get what i'm getting oh i know oh i know yeah it's and the thing too is like these same reviewers could easily have been on the positive side for law abiding citizen being like oh it made sense it was like so realistic yada yada yada that's so cool how he burrowed into a prison and got into maximum security and burrowed himself out through those same tunnels even though

like you think about that a little bit further i don't know there's a lot about that movie you you think a little bit further and this one is just not i don't know it's not asking too much this movie i feel like but it's not and it give it it get in my mind gives you way more back than in like you assumed or you're asking for in my mind like i came out of it expecting it to be not yeah not what it ended up being so yeah yeah yeah i'm glad i did not overly spoil what this

movie was going to be i didn't reach any descriptions and i and i saw the trailer kind of halfway through before i watched it and i would recommend the same to you you've already listened to the podcast so it doesn't matter who i'm talking to but um i've found that way in most movies lately and and uh uh just uh knowing knowing less the is is better and um some of these in some horror movies and this is in a way horrifying like and these are monsters monster big monster men that are are

horrifying and uh and and the methodry and and the way that she goes about doing it and the brutality of it all is is much more warranted than uh than some of the stuff in law abiding citizen where it is so like consuming to him where this is something where she just yeah i've i've said that before but let's um let's let's give her a little our own little final thoughts here you want to start us off sure i'll start us off um

this movie just ceases to surprise me as i think about it more because like i was thinking about the flaws of the movie and its inadequacies but weirdly i can ascribe those how i feel about those things in the movie if i think about it enough to it actually is like the point of it or the purpose of why those things are the way that they are and that's let me give an example so you know what it's um let me think so what would be a good example of that is like yes so at first like at

first the male gazing presentation of her you know at first you're like well how can this be a feminist movie like she just seems like such an object and also who her character is like all her dreams and hopes is really just to become a model in la and like it's so one-dimensional and it's so whatever but it ends up like as i think about it working for the movie because then her making the shift into the person she ends up needing to become from where she came from just says so much about what

the movie is trying to say and i i'm having a hard time thinking about more specific things but overall like i don't that's it's so much credit to the movie that if i were to yeah so but yeah okay okay but what i will say though that i maybe oh here's another example too is and i'm still oscillating between whether or not this is like a like a bad thing about the movie or again it just works for what the movie's trying to say is is that something that i noticed while we were like

in the like throws of it and she is competently like taking out these terrible guys the movie still like focuses in on her ass and like still makes her a sexual object and at that point i just i i i still kind of find it weird where i'm like oh but the movie still like is focusing on that and that's weird now because that's not what the movie should be focusing on but again as i think about it i'm like that's what like male like kind of vigilante you know action movie kind of stuff

does it's like they still kind of focus on this like sexy machismo of men even though they're like killing people or needing to focus on rescuing somebody but it still just presents them as like you know you know strong sasiks um you know so masculine and so it's makes sense why the movie still kind of presents her as being like sexy and cool and you know whatever and yeah it just as i think about this movie more i continue to just be like this is really interesting and cool

like i don't yeah it's definitely hard to recommend to people because then i just feel like like i'm recommending a very very gory movie with a rape scene in it and like how much do i want to be a champion of it but i what is this brand in a snuff film what did you give me i just imagine like oh you've got to check out this 2017 movie called revenge it's really fucking good and then somebody is somebody coming back and be like you like this movie like what and being like oh i like

wasn't it cool though and i don't know i'm i'm throwing that out i just want to be with somebody who to see like i wish i was with someone to to have a reaction to the beer can being emblazoned on her belly i would i want to i feel like once that happens you're either on or off you're totally um so okay again as i think about it movie gets honestly better what i will say why i'm not going to give it like super super high of a score is her as a character is there it has a plainness

to the to her that i think could have been filled with a i just get the sense that there's another version of this movie where she maybe talks more to somebody else or there's some inclusion of her ha like a like expressing a character development or having at least maybe even giving more like more of a performance about how she feels about something because a lot of this movie is her very very stoic being like i need to like survive and i'm going to go through the

through that process to get there and so i'm not going to give it terribly high because of that because like you can honestly put a lot of people in her role if i were to put it simply and it wouldn't necessarily change as long as they just like clearly do the actions that need to happen in this movie so like the leading performance is if it's interchangeable i think that's a knock on this movie for me but i since because of the scale of it it isn't really that big of an issue so i

just want that to be said i also yeah like i think the villain is very good so that acting is fine but yeah i don't know for some reason i wanted to i just yeah there's i think there's something a little bit more that i would like there but honestly man i'm gonna give this like this like an 88 hell yeah like yeah what a ride this movie was something i've never really seen before i was really enthralled with it yeah you're so twisted i'm fucking twisted

uh this was one where i don't even know how you would have heard of it when it came out unless you were a shutter head or something like that um and it's i'm just happy that uh we were able to watch it and talk about it for this this podcast already it's worth seeing uh yeah i totally am right there with you or maybe not to everybody i wouldn't recommend to everybody but there's just so many tasty nuggets of of good stuff in here and it fits the bill of what

a revenge movie should be and then also gives you a subversion of that and then something more with uh her her fighting for her life and being a victim of rape and abuse and having that those tables turn so quickly is a is a horrifying truth of of being a woman as well and and to be put in that in that situation um i think was was something that was worth having a movie about even just let alone that but then to stylistically plus it up the way they did uh really kept me on board and

in a way that i i wanted some of these other movies that we did in our little series here to do a lot better and had a lot more promise to be something like this uh something like unhinged where i still in many ways have a good time with that movie but it is gray and boring to look at and not not very fun to see and when you hear a movie about a crazed road rager i would want uh whoever this suffices to be directing that movie or something like i i like this voice that who

that is behind making this movie and i and i like the consistent tone that is is throughout uh because of that voice and it is messy and not in a little rough around the edges at parts and the scale again is small and that kind of speaks to a little bit of like a a really fucking good student film sort of thing i don't mean that any sort of sort of way but being on one location um maybe just lower budgets or i should even say student film just like lower budget

and it and that those limitations perk me up too knowing that someone can make something like this on what seems like uh nothing too crazy of a of a budget but having a house and going around shooting shit in the desert and making it uh enthralling and uh shocking and horrifying and uh entertaining and amusing uh and a lot a lot of and and even grotesquely humorous at at at times where you're kind of just like shocked to the point of like laughing and i and i'm trying to

remember which point i think it would know it was the glass where where he was trying to dig his that glass out of his foot and i was like just yelling like come on dude like come on and really come on come on look at it he's sick fucks it was just cracking me up when he got it out and it was just like oh and he like cracked a smile and it was like man the movie just halted so hard that he was able to like breathe the silent relief before getting on with the the rest of that that

fucking nut so uh back and forth between those two and it it paced itself well it ended and got out when it needed to and the action started early enough where i wasn't waiting for anything to happen either so um yeah and all that said and like uh why why i guess it's not going to be perfect for me uh you know i i think it is some of those like taste things where it's like some of the the overtop grotesque nature of some of the graphic elements is is like not my taste and so when i see

it overdone a little bit i'm i even if it's to that effect and even in tarantino movies or whatever some of that stuff i'm just kind of like uh you know it's it's it's not my cup of tea always and there was a couple moments in here where i thought it maybe went a little too far just like the in the mano e mano at the end um and i i don't know it's just not and it as i say with the scale and everything there's something to be said where they could have dug in on a couple things here and there

uh a little bit more and that's so hard for me to say because saying that means maybe that would take away from the pace or some other elements of it and it's so hard to restructure a movie in that way um but i think it's just it's a perfectly i think it's an 82 movie for me i i think it's it's one of those things that um i don't know if there is a perfect version of this movie for me anyways but it's right of what this material is to be honest and to make me interested enough and

to get me up to an 82 with a movie that's that's so intense like this and about about something that uh i wouldn't necessarily be running to the the hills to to see uh i think speaks to the director's qualities and uh how excited i am to see if if she does if and when she does more stuff um and i i had a great time talking about it it's one of those movies that's worth watching with somebody or talking about it uh with if you got a podcast i'd recommend it because this was

nice and cathartic to just get it get it out of my system a little bit of of the some of the shit that happens and in this movie that really i don't really like not many people have seen too totally i was like chomping at the bed last night like mentioning it to you having yeah you hadn't seen it where i was at it oh my god this movie is something else is how i framed it of like dude yeah i was like i can't tell if he likes it or hates it this is gonna be interesting

yeah i want to keep neutral because yeah i mean because this movie has the ability to go so many ways right that's why we do these movies too in general like they're polarizing movies so really yeah i don't want to like it you know telegraph yeah yeah telegraph or like kind of like taint the water of your viewing i wanted you to just experience i was that much more excited yeah yeah but that's that is all the only thing i wanted to yeah expressing that was like

i'm excited to talk about this for better or for worse i'm excited to talk about this because this movie is so strong in a lot of ways and it could be interpreted as strong and like oh hate this don't like it or oh wow interesting i love this so yeah well uh now that we've reached the end of our series before i announce the next movie i was going to try to see if we could rank uh ranking our revenge movies real quick why don't you go first because i like uh told you to be all ready

for it and i'm not even fully ready myself so why don't you go first absolutely ready it's going to go for me from uh top to bottom or bottom to top i'm going to do t to b um best to worst i'm going to go revenge law abiding citizen uh unhinged punisher i'm going to do from t to b revenge i think i'm going to go uh unhinged then law abiding citizen then the punisher that's the only switch i think i'd switch law abiding citizens unhinged but yeah yeah yeah i don't know

it's weird i like there's something about law abiding citizen even after watching or i'm like i kind of want to like it more but there's something weird about it that just is so upsetting and fucked up that when i think too hard about it i then i make makes me want to puke yeah for me it's like there are situ there are moments in law abiding citizen that are really theatrical and large and like and then like a roller coaster to watch yeah as opposed to unhinged which i think

overall yeah well if that movie's doing i think is more interesting but law abiding citizen where i landed on it was i think i enjoy law abiding citizen more than fair i think a lot i think i think most people would agree with you but for our next venture as the polarized pod we are shifting gears and we are doing some shameless uh collab collaboration with our other podcast prod pod which is about music producers where our next episode will be about barry gordy and in

preparation for our barry gordy episode of our other musical podcast we're going to do uh three movies uh that all have barry gordy's fingerprints all over it um and we're going to be starting with the very first one will be mahogany uh directed by the man himself and it is it has a 30 by critics it has a 76 by audience uh came out in 1975 and we don't really get movies on this podcast very often uh that came out before rotten tomatoes because you you get it you know they didn't really

have a place to go to review it uh on at least as a as this big uh tomato site that we have now um i'll read the little description here struggling struggling chicago fashion design student tracy diana ross goes from rags to riches when a chance meeting with hot shot fashion photographer sean anthony perkins uh from psycho in the department store where she works leads to a runaway life as a model in rome tracy's overnight success and strong ambitions bring her professional success

as a designer but her diva antics may destroy her relationship with social activist brian played by billy d williams as well as her respect in the fashion world directed by barry gordy uh yes 1975 um diana ross billy d williams anthony perkins don't miss out on our episode next week uh if you want to reach us any other sort of way we're streaming this live on twitch.tv polarized pod typically it's been thursdays that are around five or six specific standard time um if you want to

join us at any point there drop us a line at either twitter.com polarized pod or polarized the pod at gmail.com um it has been a true blast and pleasure to go on this revenge spree with you brandini oh i was gonna say again that uh podcast the other one we're doing is again about musical producers uh music producers musical producers we're not music yeah we haven't done andrew loyd reba yet we are getting there um we're doing music producers we've done diplo we've done

todd rungren it's pretty early on we're about to do barry gordy it's called prod pod i'd recommend listening to it on spotify uh and we love you so much brandini is there anything else you want to share before we we bid adieu how no you've yeah let people you've let the people know about the prod pod um that's a really fun time i'm excited to talk about barry gordy because uh spoiler alert i think the music that came out of motown is fundamental and in just music history and it's

really some of the best stuff that has shaped the landscape of music uh for the better and it's going to be a really enjoyable time so check us out there um yeah and also please drop us a line let us know how we're doing that really helps us please um great review on apple podcasts and i will say too that this has been another episode uh that has been such a good time a blast it's i at times i'm like uh we end up having these really fun discussions for these critic rated

movies but fuck it i love it it's so great to talk about something that is you know really adventurous and evocative and striking and worth mentioning talking about getting into it and i had a great time yeah we high i feel like we want to highlight this movie and uh in a way that that we can with whatever little power polarized pod has and um it's always fun as i said and cathartic to to hash it out together and kind of figure out some of the stuff too and um that's that's been

a lot of fun hope you guys have been enjoying it as well we'll keep uh soldiering on and we'll we'll see you next time for mahogany Oh speed up never slow down speed up not slow down speed up not slow down cyborgs and androids dance like machines cyborgs and androids dance like machines come dance with me now we're gonna go watch nymphomaniac by lasvon trea cyborgs and androids dance like machines song's sick yeah it's grown on me yeah

i think i was just like caught off guard when that came up i was like i expect like frank sinatra at this point