Ocean's 11 (1960)

All the way from the bar. Give your hands together for brandy. Let's go. How's it going people out there? Welcome to the polarize podcast, baby. Glad to have you here. I hope all of you ladies and gentlemen are doing well out there. This is our new year's Eve celebration. A jubilation. Drink salation. Am I right? Let's get it going, baby. I am your host Brandon Stables. As aforementioned, this is polarized by anybody who's just tuning in.

This is a podcast about polarizing movies, polarizing in a sense of rotten tomato scores. Sometimes critics love it. Not audiences hated advice versa. Those the movies we talk about on this podcast. Oh, yeah. Today we're talking about oceans 11, the 1960s version with our good pals. Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr. Baby. This movie's got a rating on rotten tomato. 48% critic, 81% audience. All you cool get out there in the audience. Love this film and we love you for it.

Welcome in. Strap in. Grab yourself a gold beverage. It's not just going to be me talking tonight. It's also going to be me. My forever guest is sometimes we mentioned him as or the co-host with the most is let me introduce everybody. Put your hands together for James Lindsay. Hey, what's going on, baby? How are we doing today? Doing good, brother. How about you? I am feeling excellent this holiday season. So good that I might run a little heist if you know what I mean. Hey, I love it, baby.

You know what? I'm here for you. This season brings a lot of joy for a lot of people that brings a lot of happiness. And I completely hate it. It's the worst. I look up at everyone on top of my hill and I hate the joy. And I think it's preposterous how much fun they're having and all the love that they're sharing with the families that I'll never have. And it's made me very better. So I think you and I should run a heist on Christmas and steal Christmas away from the people of Whoville.

Let. Oh, whoa. Everybody, James has just turned into the Grinch. Whoa. Crazy. What's up, baby? Hey, hey, we got a Christmas. I'm going to steal your tree and take out Santa Claus. Baby. It's like a cool Grinch. It's like a great cigarette and pencil. Pencil, thin mustache, you know, one of those. He's a cool cat, Mr. Grinch. Here is a cat. Yeah, holiday season, my man. Yeah, it's crazy that you've turned into the Grinch, but you know what? I'm in for it and I love it. I love it.

I'm in for the heist. Let's let's do it. Let's heist this movie. It's heist this podcast. Let's set it up and knock it down. Let's do it. I'm going to. The podcast was the next thing on my list. So we can, we can switch it up and start with the podcast and then work on our way towards Christmas for next year since it's already already passed in this timeline. And I've been working on switching up timelines, but that'll be another Christmas as well. Another Christmas as well.

That's the name of our book that's coming out. I'm sorry. It just sounded like a book. You know, add it again with me and my book titles, the timelines of our lives in some in one timeline. It's Frank Frank's Nacho and another it's Danny. Danny Ocean is old, old Cloonster. Old Cloonster. Oh, Cloonster. Oh, that's what you call it. Stepping in. George Cloon. Cloonste. I would. I would. George Vonn Cloonstein. George Vonn Sinatra. Cloonster. Oh, junior. Oh, you know what?

I would like to pause the James. Maybe you will disagree, but I think most people are age. Do not really know this movie exists, right? They might know that there was like an original maybe and like before the Soderbergh one, and they might know that their pack was in it maybe, but yeah, I don't think I don't think it's on anybody's radar by any means. I don't think so, too. I've known that it's existed for at least since the Soderbergh one had the Soderbergh one had that not even come out.

I would not even know about this one because they did other movies, the rap hack too. And I don't even know about those either. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, because it's just it's from a bygone era from us. Yeah. It's a bygone era. By gone. That's how that's how it came up. That's how that word came up. You're gone through death. Yes. Yes. The era of death is by and it is gone. Your era is leaving you because you're dying. This is the era of our lives. This is the era. This is our sitcom.

We got a book. We got sitcom. I just feel compelled to just keep reiterating that this is not the Ocean's Eleven with George Cloons because I feel like this is not the coins version. I'll put a 1960 in print in prints at the tip of top. So people know at the door, I'll check them at the door and be like, hey, check them at the door. Hey, baby, you know what you're in for? This is a this is the flamingo. This isn't your average Cosmopolitan or Aria. No, this is weird.

This is the golden nugget, baby. This is the same as the Copa. We're in the Copa right now. Copa era. Love the Vegas setting. And and I love that we're able to talk about it. I love that the soda break things already coming up because within the context of this, like it's just really in reference to that in my mind, because I love the soda movie so much. And we'll get into that. But I must say this is not going to be a brandini's to. This is going to be a brandini's three.

Because Danny's a part of that, right? Like he's like he's included in the 11 or is it Danny and 11 other guys because I lost count every time, I guess. I think he's included in the 11. Right. Yeah. That's my thought too. There's got to be like 11 guys, him included. Yeah. Even though it does say oceans 11. So it seems like his 11 guys. It's his 11 guys, but I'm pretty sure it's 11 all in total. Got it. Got it. Got it. Well, it's brandini's three, baby. It's a brandini's three.

We got a very special fucking guest. Yeah, we do. A guest that we've had on the pod before for this very time of the year, we wanted to bring him back because I think it's do we love, you know, trying to keep things a little, you know, create new traditions. It's a fun thing to do in life, you know, and we have the opportunity to keep a traditional live by bringing on a guest that we love, a friend that we love and a person that you may have heard on previously for wonderful episodes like rent.

Welcome back to the podcast, Mr. Christian Robino. Well, well, well, thank you for the introduction guys. Welcome back. I'm ready for you guys. So fly me to the moon. Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. This podcast tonight sounds beautiful to me. There's one thing that certain is we're going to do it our way, gentlemen. Hey, hey, hey. Almost like strangers in the night we've shown up and decided to talk about movies. I went to those a stretch, but we're having fun here. You know what? It's a moray.

Welcome back. Welcome back. And we're already dropping dropping music knowledge. Not know. No, don't expect knowledge. Yeah, just loose references that was apparent in our rent episode as well. You mentioned that was a fun one. Yeah, it was. That was a good one. You also at the beginning you did the straight from the bar thing, which I was always cracked me up. And I just wanted to tell that brief story where I had got my aunt Jack, my aunt Jackie's old Toyota matrix car.

And with it, she left her CDs in the back, some of which were the rat pack live in Vegas. And I would throw those on every now and then and listen to him and Brandon one time took a ride with me and we had a good time listening to those and that one of those lines was straight from the bar Dean Martin. And that guy is so funny.

And that was that was something that that CD kind of turned me on it to Dean a little bit more in his crowd work and like the in between songs and everything because he's got a great voice, obviously, but any natural entertainer, but all the for someone of my generation. And I just not as aware of some of that stuff, but he is a boot.

And I wanted, I could just watch him play the piano for the whole movie if if I could, because some of that stuff was a little bit more alive than some of the rest. Okay, yeah, I agree. There's a lot to talk about in this movie. I mean, before we jump into it, you know, is there anything we want to say? I guess.

Yeah, we could talk about just our overall like Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin rat pack our familiarity with it because it's not like it was necessarily a huge deal in my household as growing up on the on the West Coast. I feel like if I was more of an East Coaster, I probably would have gotten a little bit more of at least Frank Sinatra, but he wasn't terribly huge in my household. But as I grew into loving music with the fervor and depth that I ended up, you know, that I'm at in my adult life.

I love a lot of Frank's music and like James, you said about, you know, kind of discovering, you know, these live recordings and the personalities of these men, especially, you know, as a person, you know, they're like, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. There's there's something so fun and and yeah, they're just incredibly charismatic and their whole stick of just ribbon each other, you know, being these drinkers, these playboys, these crooners also at the same time. Living the life. Living.

Yeah. Living life. Yeah. And then, you know, listening to we have been playing a documentary about this movie again, just so crazy to hear about these guys lifestyle. It's just is absolute insanity. Yeah. The schedule was essentially when they were doing this movie was like a 24 hour thing of.

Foot shooting a little bit of the movie going in, drinking, gambling performing, going back, performing and then going back drinking, gambling and going back performing again, maybe two shows in a day and not having much time to be awake or let alone shoot a movie or sorry, sleep or let alone shoot a movie. Which was an also just not sober. A lot of that. Absolutely. I mean, the cool the interest are noticeable moments.

I mean, in this movie, I would argue kind of interesting thing about like Dino was I guess he never like the thing in that documentary was said that he never really did drink and that was always just a stick. He would play into it. Yeah. And that was like his main thing was that he was the drunk and and I mean funny, obviously too, but he always had apple juice in his glass. I thought that was good. And on the set of this very weak, weak cocktail be like me.

Water and like a thin amount of booze. And on this movie, I guess he was responsible a lot of times for like knowing lines of even other other people like that didn't know theirs and he would kind of be on top of it in that way while Frank and who was it? Lawrence, Peter Loford, Loford. Yeah, Peter Loford. Peter Loford and they were kind of just like, well, I've worked.

I know we're already like getting into it, but like they called them, you know, I don't know if they called him, but he was essentially one take Frank like he would only shoot one take and refuse to shoot anymore. And then we get very cranky and upset if they asked him to do it anymore. Apparently, it really does seem like it was just a group of friends that it's like, hey, we're all here. Like, why don't we film a movie at the same time? Absolutely. It's exactly what it is.

And it's funny how like Soderbergh takes that energy of later and utilizes it in such a fun, loose sort of way that actually works. And that's, yeah, I think that's going to be a hard thing for me not to do is compare the two, but at least they're in that They are the same thing.

But even just like for the hell of it right after I watched this movie, I threw on the other one just for like a little bit just to see the opening in the beginning and kind of yet to see how well that one opens because if we're jumping into it, I don't know if there's anything else to it. Like it's the first like 45 minutes of this movie like occurs in the first like 10 minutes of the other one.

And like the 45 minutes is like almost just like it's just so bloated with this setup that is unnecessary. Whereas in and maybe this is unfair me comparing the two too much, but it's a heist movie and the other ones, you know, just done at a at another level and definitely more modern for sure.

But they are like George Clooney and Brad Pitt are sitting 10 minutes in and looking at blueprints for the vault of the Bellagio and it's like 45 minutes and that's when they have the meeting where everyone's together, which is obviously a little bit later notions of the Soderbergh one, but my main point is just this this setup part in the beginning here where we're at was those was the roughest part for me out of everything that first 45 minutes. That's absolutely.

Yeah, I completely agree with you and I may note of that as well as like, you know, there's just so much of this like running around to collect people. Yeah, it also made it really apparent to what you're talking about in relation to the Soderbergh one where and also to what Christian had just said about, you know, this just very much seems like we're all here in Vegas. Let's, you know, make a movie together. That would be fun. But the problem to that is that they're barely in scenes together.

Exactly. Yes. So, you know, you never really get a whole lot of that energy that was on stage that everybody was so obsessed with because man, I think that had taken away from just seeing some of the performances of the wrap pack is just this whole like improv like element and just so every show, you know, people must walk away and go like the, you know, one show is so much different than the other show and that being providing value.

Mind you, apparently it was only what five or six bucks to go see them and dinner is included. Nice. Like standing or something once they got popular. Could you, oh my God, what a what a time to be alive.

But yeah, there's so much running around and set up and it's drags like a like a mother fucker, you know, and that and I wonder how much it was either restructured or like just they knew from the beginning that they weren't going to be able to get all these people in the same room to do these scenes together because there is so much of the auxiliary characters or, you know, the supporting cast kind of doing a lot of stuff and going back and forth, which doesn't really pay off in any other way

than getting everyone in the same room together, which backwards would be just getting Dino and Frank in the same room together as early as possible and having them hatch the plan and then Sammy and Peter Lawford, the four, the main four, getting them together quickly. That would be kind of down. Going one to one. It'll maybe a little bit too much with the Soderbergh one where it's Brad Pitt and George Kleiner.

Really the two two main characters in the venture like Jason Bourne's kind of kind of there, which is kind of the I guess the lawford character. But yeah, I just like getting getting them together and having those moments and having lots of them because I think it is like that meeting around that meeting time is when you get Frank and Dino and like in the same room riffing off each other, which is pretty electric.

And then you get Sam yeah and Sammy right right there and Dino together are really fun when they're behind the pool table and everything like that's that's where that movie starts to pick up is that that at that part. And it just. Actually, you go first question.

Well, I was going to say because Sammy Davis Jr. is a huge part of the rap pack, but I felt like his position was so minuscule that they added this like seeing scene just to give him like a bigger part when his part really wasn't that big. Absolutely. I mean, it's pivotal to the heist itself. But man, I just, you know, I think he really was the standout for me because I just there was so much of a lethargy on everybody's performance.

But I think Sammy for me was a standout that he really was like seems so excited to be there. And yeah, that that energy really helped from an overall movie that dragged from the get go. And it's just, I think it really to me, it's just I'm such a harsh critic on this movie now having seen it in the setup and what this movie could have been because there's no real excuse for them, especially given the fact that these guys were all together almost all the fucking time.

Like, why doesn't the movie just start with them being together? Like, I, if I were to have a song together at some point, more singing, and Sammy brings the singing when they first introduced his character, which is just sorely missing. It's like, oh yeah, these guys can fucking belt tape. More of that and you get some Dino, but yeah, we need more.

Like this, structured in the plot and script wise, so much fucking better where why isn't it that Frank's coming in and just, you know, wrestling these guys up as, you know, Frank going to Peter, Peter, then those two, you know, bringing in Sammy and Dino, and then you're immediately the they're all in a room together and you know, they're chopping it up and having fun together. Yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. There's no, it's just, it's, there's no reason for what we got here.

They just couldn't get everyone in the same room. Like they just couldn't do it. Get everyone in the same room at the same time for that, for that long or for even multiple takes. Sure. I don't know. There's the, but there's, there's a real possibility if structured and directed well that they could have spent less time than they did on this fucking movie.

Like arguably, I would say is like you, instead, what you did is you, you took them away from their, from their busy schedules to shoot all of these desperate scenes to put them together to get to, you know, get to more of the meat and potatoes of the movie when you should just like, how would you make this so like laser focused? Like, okay. Yeah, I only have these guys. Let's just structure where we're getting them together as quickly as possible.

You know, they're already together, then let's structure it. So we're shooting with all of them together and it can be kind of improvisational. It could be one take or whatever, but yeah, at least there's more of them and it's a little bit more quality than quantity rather than adding a bunch at the front and a bunch at the back. The whole first act, there's a lot in the back. The first act of oceans 12 is at the end of this movie, which is, is, is a lot. And I'm sorry.

Yeah, again, Soderbergh, but it's like, there's, and that's just such like the sixties thing of like the villains can't win. But as far as like the first part, first portion of this movie, I'm trying to think if there's anything super notable from these other characters kind of coming together. I like Frank's phone voice and I'm not sure if it's actually him doing a fake one or if it's like someone just probably dubbing over. It seems because there's a lot of ADR in this movie.

There's a lot of times now with the like remastering of this movie, which looks pretty good. All things considered, but just like with a lot of movies that have been remastered from the sixties and fifties, it just suffers a lot where you can see a lot of heavy makeup and just the background are just really deep looking sets and stuff. But yeah, I mean, I like the color palette kind of this, this era is pretty nice and yeah, simple and definitely looks like, you know, sets some of it.

But once we get into Vegas, you know, we're not there yet necessarily, but all of that stuff, I love just seeing old old school Vegas is one of the highlights of the movie for sure. But I'm just looking at my notes here and yeah, we got a Saul Bass opening, you know, from Alfred Hitchcock and, you know, kind of inspiring a lot of all the James Bond openings and everything. Yeah. The accounting down accounting of the numbers and putting in the those dots like it's like a marquee lights.

Yeah. That's like really kind of that's setting a huge trend and pretty revolutionary that guy for the for the air. Yeah, like Psycho and a lot of those are so good and really gets you into the movie when there is still a time of overtures and everything, but putting that turn in that overture on its head a little bit and getting a little artsy with the graphic design is very cool. Very movie theater like like they they they picture their audience in the movie theater.

Yeah. 100% like it made me think of this concept of. The like a benefit to having an opening like that is that people are funneling into the theater still and it gives them starting. You hear the movie starting and people are walking in and nothing none of the movie has actually happened yet.

So it's like kind of a kind of a plus where yeah, you could just imagine it's not starting off with a cold opening with something that you could you know, adds to the plot or or something that you would not want to miss. Instead, it's kind of this. It's a song. It's slow build up. Yeah, naming characters. Once it does started is pretty cold opening in terms of just ooh, this is going slow and icy. Was that typical? Was that typical back then? Like a lot of four play.

100% because I mean, it's just really like, yeah, kind of introducing all the characters and that sort of way of like, yeah, and like a stage play to where they enter stage left and you get kind of a little read on them and then they go and then we get the next person.

But yeah, I'd still contend what Brandon just said of condensing everything and limiting those and constricting those scenes to make them more valuable is definitely the way way to go because none of this is super, super memorable to me. You're wearing a pretty sweet fuzzy or sweater at the beginning. I like that. I think the argument would make for the beginning of it. The purpose of it is that it sets up two things that the movie would like you to be more.

Into, but I'm just not terribly into them because of ultimately how the movie ends up treating those situations or characters, which is. It sets up the idea that the engineer, I'm sorry, I'm forgetting his name. Tony Berghoff, right? Richard Conti, hell of a chin on that guy. Holy hell. You know, him visiting his son, getting out of jail, setting up this whole idea of the Godfather. Yeah, okay. From the Godfather, Brandzini. Bergdorf, Anthony Bergdorf. Anthony, Tony Bergdorf.

You know, that being a lot, you know, kind of a thread through the movie of him getting a diagnosis, getting out of jail. He has a son taking care of his wife also sets up to this idea of how it's good. Peter Loford's character. Peter Loford, Jimmy Foster, setting up the relationship he has with his mother and then his soon to be stepfather who ends up playing a rather large role in the back half of this movie. Yeah, I'm not too sure about, but it's okay.

But they spent a lot of time with that mom. Like I really, I felt like that was a 10 minute scene where you kind of understand who this woman is. I remember one of the lines was like, oh, I've never missed one of your weddings. You understand at the end where it's like the, yeah, the new, I'm going to marry your mama comes in and it's like, oh, by the way, I also catch thieves. And I'm, you can especially hire me as a mercenary to fucking hunt these guys down.

And I was like, well, isn't that convenient? And he was in the beginning of the movie, but he doesn't talk. Yeah, he kind of, you see him in the background. He like introduces himself or not introduced. He's like says hi to essentially what is the Matt Damon. That's, that's the Matt Damon character. Yeah, Jimmy Foster. Yeah, Jimmy Foster.

But I feel like, I hope this is interesting, but in this, in this one, I feel like it's more vague and almost like Matt Damon's parents are like thieves and robbers or whatever as well. And I think in 12, they do come in at the end and kind of lift them out of a jam that they're going through because, because they are more well equipped to do it. But this one, they're like, she's like in it. And there's this whole, that whole undercurrent of that character.

I liked a lot more of the Richard Conte's arc. That was, that was great. But this guy about like being born wealthy and rubbing that in people's faces and then being called out of like, so what's your reasoning for doing this? Like you clearly don't need the money and it's pretty easy to get

for you. And you have a, you know, Frank, I think it was Frank or maybe it was Dino is like, you know, you know, yeah, Dino is like, you know, and Sam, he's like, you obviously you have Jen, like she's very generous. Like what's like, why do you need to do this? And he's like, essentially tells them that he doesn't have enough freedom from like to be able to, he doesn't want to keep having to hit her watching over his back or whatever.

He's just so petulant and like annoyed with it and looks down on everybody as like being lesser than him and everything. And that whole thing was just kind of like, I could have done without. And then yeah, a lot of the stuff with his mom and the guys, who are you? I'm going to marry your mama. And this just like, and then just ribs him about drinking alcohol and then gets a shot and then he gets sick immediately.

And it's just, and all of this, mind you, is all good and fine character stuff, but good Lord, it tastes forever on everything. Yeah, it's just like, I mean, we're not doing this film justice by running through this stuff as quickly as we are because like it is, we can get into the 15 minutes of this lead up, going to see his mother, then you go to see his mother and then it's just like hanging out. Oh my God, it's just like 10 minutes on the relationship on the ocean.

And she really is just super upset and is but the way that people talk as well is, I don't know, she's like, I can't live my life. I'm like, wow, what was it? There was this line that was just, I was cracking up at like, I can't live my life expecting like, based on whatever color of a car there is or how long each horse's nose is and stuff like that. Yeah, exactly. And then he would say something really quick back and it would just be like, yeah, stage play like, okay, you say your line.

Okay, now I say my line. And you just can't keep up because they keep on doing these weird metaphors and turns of phrases that are kind of like outdated for us. I did a lot better with subtitles in this movie because there was stuff like that. That was, that was rough, but there's, there's, there's undercurrents going on. Me too, man. Cause that's what, that's a note I wrote is just straight up the dialogue is so rigid.

Everybody feels like I say my lines, then you say your lines and it just was driving me nuts where all of it was just so incredibly stilted and like also lethargic and it was first takes for everything. So James, James, that line reminded me of the other oceans 11 line that was like, you're a liar and you're a thief. I only lied about being a thief. Like, you know what I mean? Like that line is like huge description of Danny ocean as a character.

And that's one thing that they kept in both movies from, from my understanding where you're like, like this guy is like a hardcore gambler and he gambles with everything in life. You know, and yeah, that was the, the parallel was that, that face down between the two of them.

And yeah, that's like at dinner and then Andy Garcia shows up, which yeah, Andy Garcia kind of is morphed into multiple from multiple characters, but the vitro like kind of hate from the from Angie Dickinson is, yeah, is, is real. And she's, she's so like, like, like dolls eyes, like, like a doll's eyes, like shark's eyes, like she's just so like dead set on just hating, hating him. She's over his bullshit and everything.

She has that transatlantic accent from back in the day that they have to pronounce everything. Yeah, I did a lot of research on that. Yeah. They like had to pronounce everything because of like the issues with the audio equipment back then. And then it came up as like half a British accent and half a American accent. Yeah. The British accent influence being that it provides a level of like a class and intellectualism to it.

And then universality for everybody can like subscribe to the same way of speaking once, you know, in, in movies. And I think a lot of audio equipment at that time was a lot more like tenor based and didn't have as much base, like base sort of, sort of spectrum.

So speaking in a higher voice like this is going to get a lot more across into people's ears because, you know, the closest thing you can think of now is maybe like an AM quality radio or like something like that is going to be very fuzzy and tinny. So you're going to cut through that static a lot more if you're shining like this. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Here we go again, which are people are tired.

Hey, baby, baby, hey, honey, baby. I want to live again. We got a comment in the chat every time of Bella Rings and brandini gets wings. Yes, baby. I got a question in the chat about how did the production have to make things. Scenes longer because of them being drunk or not able to come out and do those scenes.

Yes. Yes. And yes, 100. That was why they couldn't have everyone together in the same room, like barely ever in this movie, because some people were always off doing something else in the Ocean's Eleven documentary. It was like there was a lot of chasing ladies and gambling and who's a watsy's and staying up all night. And then they would go to the steam room at the end of the night and Frank would buy everyone special robes with their names on their names on it.

The other names, Sammy was smokey the bear because he would run around and be like, man, man, man, man, man, like smokey the bear one. I'm like, oh, my God. And then Frank Sinatra had his was he was the pope. It seems like a cell. It seemed like he like self named self gave a nickname to to himself. He's like, I made the robe. I can put whatever fucking nickname that I want on it, baby. That's right. I cuss when I don't sing. Don't you know? I know my name is Frank Frank Sinatra.

Dude, wow, that was really good. Wow. Oh, my God. Frankie's a lady. What if everyone introduced themselves that way? The name's Brandon Brandon Stables. Brandon Stables. You should try it. Christian Christian Rabino. No, well, you should. Yeah. Well, you should do the James Bond. It's fun. So like next time you check into a hotel or something named Rabino. Christian Rabino.

It works perfect for hotel check in because usually give your last name first because that's what I'm like, Rabino Christian Rabino. It feels good when you do it. You feel fucking like, yeah. You also I would. I was well to anybody if they go, oh, Mr. Rabino, your room, Mr. Rabino is my father. You can call me Christian. No, OK, dad. OK, dad. Always the only but a goodie. It is a goodie. It's a goodie. I like it. It's a goodie. It's a goodie.

But yeah, I mean, you know, to to finish off the question from the chat about the production, I mean, yeah, again, I think all of us would if we were to be responsible for rewriting this movie or helping to redirect this movie is even because of the fact that it was so difficult to get them together because of them being drunk or being too busy, then it really is the Otis's place on the shooting structure of this movie to then be very specific about like, OK,

so today we're everybody's going to get together and we're going to shoot the scene as opposed to it just seems like so flat footed in the production. Like, OK, I guess today we only got this person. Oh, I guess today we only have that person and making everything so much more drawn out because you didn't know if you were going to get somebody or not. And simplified to just like, I mean, yeah, this is.

This is natural for the for the time, but very static shots of of like, there would be there's that scene at the pet store or whatever. Or else like, oh, my God, it's like five minutes and they just haven't moved the camera. And I know like that's just that's coming out of like the 50s and stuff. And they're just like, oh, well, look at this new. I mean, this is still a while after films have been around.

There's been there's been like Albert Hitchcock has done a lot of interesting stuff and he's guilty of it as well. Like, when I watch Alan for a murder, it's really just like, wow, we can just put a stage play on film. Look at this. This is amazing. And that's really all they did was just like, OK, and to a stage left and say your lines and leave stage right. And that's that's how we'll do it. And we'll hit the camera and you go and then.

Say Broadway. That's that's it. And we just turn it on, turn it off. No need. There's a little bit of panning and following certain characters and stuff like that. And occasionally like a zoom or like the edit for the New Year's thing, you know, will bring up in like the last final shot of them walking is pretty iconic. And there's there's some of that good stuff, but it's few and far between. And it is interesting that it it's simplified, but also drawn out.

And they didn't take the time to to it. You know, yeah. Because, yeah, ultimately, I think this movie would have benefited from not drawing itself out. And I'm sure I don't know, given how unpredictable the actors in this movie are, yeah, and more beneficial to not having it be drawn out where. You have to shoot the overall shooting schedule is longer, make the shooting

schedule shorter. And I mean, at the end of the day, like, depending, you know, we don't really know how, you know, much the unpredictability of the actors affected a lot of stuff by and large. But I think all of us would like to assume that if you would have just focused more so on scenes where you could get everybody together and it still be pretty improvisational and not terribly structured.

But overall, like the shooting schedule is geared around how do we get the wrap packed together in scenes, you know, and make kind of the time, you know, make things count. I think this movie would have benefited a lot. Because again, the crazy statistic or fact about this movie is, is that all of the guys aren't in a scene together until the very last shot.

Yep. Right. Yeah. Everybody. So a lot of this movie is it's going to be like two guys, you know, and then the other cast or, you know, but, you know, or some combination. The closest thing is also the pool table at the meeting and a few of the things at the meeting that even those kind of kind of like break off. Like I but that's at least where it's needed that dialogue. It picks it's very one take.

E like it's very just like stilted and just like, let's see how this works and experiment, but then they don't iron out the details. And then the whole plan, you know, I like the the handkerchief. He changes the color of the handkerchief with the side of hand. Same with Dino has some side of hand stuff, too. I like that they both are, you know, they have that in their in their skill set. And then they play it. They face it down.

And then I just like how he points at all of them like three times, like which one's OK, we're doing five. All right. Here we go. I forgot them, but they like listen. Now it's like the sands and the sands, the Riviera, the Desert and and the Flamingo and that handkerchief. Some of them didn't exist when we were born. No, yeah, they don't really done so bananas. Bananas done so by gone by gone. It's a by gone era by by gone. Yeah, that's because they all died.

But coming into Vegas, that's the fun. OK, speaking of which, I feel like I didn't get enough visual of Vegas. Like I could want to. Yeah, I think that's like the biggest crime of this movie. Am I were they in Vegas? It's like home in Vegas. Yeah, because that's where they were doing all their shows. They had to like they had to do it to shoot out there. Yeah, but time and time again, it's just in rooms. It's in like a set room. Yeah. You know, just an actual casino. But I can take a mouse.

Yeah. All right. Let's just set up around Frank. He's not moving. Or yeah, let's put the camera in the back of Dino's performance. And yeah, man, I just it really bummed me out how I felt like I didn't get enough of Vegas in this movie. And that would be my biggest critique about this is I just didn't get that level of, you know, I don't know, moving between casinos, more exteriors, more like places within in the casinos and all of that. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

It was close, especially like near the end in shooting like the the power going out and the wire, you know, in the dynamite shooting down. Yeah. But at least there was like, oh, we're outside. It felt so good to be outside for that power line coming down. Yeah. And a little bit of that chaos. It was so model. Yeah, the CGI was such a model. No CGI. Yeah. It was like a model like this little like. It's like this big. Yeah. It really looks like. It's like. Oh, it's totally OK. It was definitely.

It's the size of my mic. Yeah. That's the side. It's a hokey. It's a hokey movie. And you I want more fun stuff rather than just people like lounge and rap. Like I'm maybe they needed to harness the chemistry of the rap hack. Like this movie is slated as like we got them all together. They're in they're in Vegas and they're doing a heist. And it's two hours of of like just fluffing around that they're fluffing. It's just fluffing around. They're fluffing around around.

And like I mentioned, yeah, it's like you get to this meeting. It's like, OK, finally. But then it kind of it it breaks off again into everyone separating and going into this very visual almost extended montage of everyone doing their separate things and Dino singing and a lot of visual stuff here. That is also very slow. A lot of shoe leather. I say that because there's a lot of leathery shoes as well. Leathery faces.

Usually, you know, I've seen him singing and even him fucking around on the piano before like that's that's really nice. What could he use more of that? They didn't really explain. He looks like the human embodiment of a shoe. He's got this is like long face, droopy eyes. Very. It looks like a fine equestrian saddle. I think they did a lot of solo acts, but with the people, they didn't really explain the solo acts like, OK, you know, Dean Martin's character is going to sing.

Real quick, but there wasn't like a like much explanation as to why he's playing on the piano in the middle of the casino. And it's like, if you're not going to explain that too much, like, why don't you just throw all three of them in together, which is what the people want to see. Oh my God. Oh my God. Absolutely. At least even if they're fucking around like at the meeting, someone's like sits on the piano and they all sit. They all like.

Yeah. They all rub each other and sing and just have a little moment like, God damn, like, how do you not get that right? It's like the one thing you got to do. And this movie is is a long and there's there's like not enough, not enough of the chemistry because it's electric when you see them like together, their body language changes, even if like they like whatever with the dialogue and the pool scene pool, you know, shooting pool scene and everything.

But they're like Frankie's body language completely relaxes. They all they all just like. Give it like just don't care anymore in a good way because they don't care either way. So mind as well, have it be more in like a fun sort of thing. Because otherwise they're just kind of like, ah, whatever. I'm tired and drunk.

This movie posits this really fascinating, you know, just thing that exists in reality where all of these guys in the film to me are so incredibly like nervous and stilted about being on camera. But they are known for being so loose and so charismatic on stage, which is arguably, you know, I don't know, harder kind of like at least in my mind, but I don't know for certain because I haven't experienced either.

But like. The way that I would put it is like getting, you know, being putting yourself out there in front of a live audience, as opposed to a very like calculated environment, though that there's a lot of people watching and maybe pressure is mounting, you know, like it's just, it's crazy to me to think about how poor of actors they all come off being because they're so like rigid and like it just, it's one of those things where Sammy's pretty

Sammy's good. Sammy's good. That's what I was saying at the top. Like Sammy's my favorite because he is the one out of all of them that feels like what is happening in my mind is that his. Like enter his want to do really well is doing so much of the heavy lifting of not being like an actor and, you know, needing to provide all of this, like, you know, like depth and character in your body language and your looks and how you, you know, present your dialogue or whatever.

He just is so wanting to do well by the movie that it really just ends up being such a huge benefit and stand out performance to me because there's time and time again. I just find, especially Frank Sinatra, just being so like. Yeah, over here and then I got to say these lines and then, you know, it's just, it's so like, I need to just focus on hitting my mark and it comes off as just yeah, being really robotic. Yeah, really. It means something to Sammy, whether that's the actual Sammy or

it's his character as well. It also means something rather than, you know, their Dino and Frank are just like a little bit more aloof about it and just kind of like, man, whatever goes, baby. And Sammy's just like kind of a bolt of energy into all of it. But yeah, they set it all up.

I this, this has much more energy than the beginning, this portion and at least the plan itself was, you know, pretty yeah, some, some similarities to the Soderbergh one, but I like the whole idea of them finding a way to take out the power and just knock out the power for a brief moment of time and then get in there and do their thing and get out rewire it. That's the whole thing.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. The wires, if like the, the emergency lights, instead of the emergency lights going on or whatever, it would open the doors to the vault. Just cross those wires, baby. That was just such a funny like, well, what if you take that wire and cross it with the take the light one and cross it with the door one, baby? And that was it. It was like, oh, okay. Yeah. All right. Let's do that. It was an overall like very straightforward robbery. Turn off the lights,

going and rob them. Sure. Like. And then yeah. But the East was, he's had a different thing and then like the actual moment of it, if I'm jumping ahead a bit, but like the jumping between everything as it's happening was one of like the more successful things in my mind of the movie at the time to, to have fun, some little more fun with the editing of jumping back and forth between everything. And that's what you learn.

And a Soderbergh world is like, Oh, he can do these cool split, split screen things with like some snazzy music and have like more like implied sort of meaning rather than, all right, let me tell you everything that I'm going to do. And that's all just sit down for a minute and hash it out. It's like, no, you get it. And kind of move along and keep up the cool factor. Because that's like, these guys are cool. You want the movie to be cool as well.

But it still doesn't, in my mind, achieve that fully because it spends so much time in all of the other men in the 11 doing the spraying the stuff on shit. The doorknobs is crazy. It's like when it actually happened. I just like was thinking, it's like, I felt like I spent 30 minutes of this movie with people like spraying stuff on the doors, you went a bunch of stuff and like none of it seemed to fucking matter.

Like all it was was like the lights go off, the safe's open, you take the money, you throw it in the trash and it's over. But it's like they couldn't find the door when the lights are off. So let's add some glow in the dark paint to like make sure everyone knows. And they had to, oh, yeah. The footprint thing that looked pretty cool and like they had to blow out some candles. There's like the security guard like, oh, I got a light.

There's candle. They just like blew it out and they're like, yeah. So, hey, blow up that candle. Got him. I need you all to say maybe. Yeah, it's it. I mean, it's it's it's simple, but like that that idea and doing such a big like five casinos in Vegas on like it just seems like a at the same time impossible sort of task. I have mission impossible sort of heist and that sort of weight and scale makes it exciting.

But I know, yeah, kind of jumping a little bit to that, but I think we're we're fine. Yeah, we're there. Yeah, we can get there because yeah, again, so much of this movie is like taking too much time on something that is really important to us. And that is like trying to get it to some degree and on something that is really not a complex or like interesting. Maybe we've seen too many heists.

I mean, there's been a lot a lot of heist movies since this time, and maybe there was like it was recently. Concept. Yeah, definitely. And then it's it's just interesting to see how they want to structure it. And you know, this movie was made in the 50s and came out in 1960 even too. sort of situation after a script that I think had been or an idea that had been passed around for a while to. But also to what the guys that are involved in it, like it's one of those things like the reason.

Oh, yeah. And it was putting them on the cover for sure. It was interesting to hear too about like all of their careers leading up to this because we're talking about men who are like in their almost in their fifties by the time this movie is. Yeah. They're in this movie. So it's not like these are like up, you know, like rising stars or whatever. Like these are older men that everybody has really come to love because of that's what Duke Santo says.

And you can only do things when you're young or whatever. He says something like that. Duke, the Duke. It's me, Duke Santos. So great to hear on that guy. Holy shit. Oh, he did actually. Yeah. And I also thought everything was hilarious. I know this is near the end, but he's like when he finds out that it's Danny Ocean and his military friends, then he's like, can you believe it? Oh, it's your son and his military friend. Oh, I can't believe it. And he's just like laughing.

So then he goes in and confronts him and he's just like, hey, I demand half. They wanted 30. I want more. All right. See you tomorrow. You're just like so happy and just like it was like basic math help decided his life. He's like, well, they're going to give me 30 percent, but I'm asking for 50. And that's bigger than 30. It just sucked out even that moment. It's like, oh, conflict. Oh, a moment of like, hey, maybe we don't let him leave.

And hey, maybe you grab that gun out of the fucking safe and we hold it to him and we tell him like, fuck you, we're not giving you 50 until your friends like, you know, but it's not going to go this north the seven easy out of course. But like there was like a moment of tension of just like, oh, you guys in the room together and he's like, all right, I'll see you tomorrow. And they're like, okay, bye. Absolutely. All right. The only one to drink. Okay. The only like real.

Oh, I perked up during that moment because I was like fucking finally that there's some drama because even in the heist of it all, like the drama is so thin. Yeah. Because, you know, they have the issue with Tony Birddough, Richard Conti, where, you know, he's struggling to steal the money. And I was like, oh, I was really kind of yeah, that was a nice one. In on it. It's like, oh, shit. I was like, oh, shit, he's going to like die at the safe.

And then there's going to be this whole thing of like, you know, a man is left behind and it's going to be the reason that the whole thing falls apart because they're able to like either, I don't know, I guess question him or like follow the trail because he exists or whatever. And the movie just like kills him off. It's not a big deal. Yeah. Moves on.

But then it drags out that revelation so far because his death is the reason that everyone kept like gradually kind of catches on because they because he because Duke Santos first figures that part out. And then the second one was like, oh, my son didn't go to the squad valley. So I guess he's in Vegas. So we should go get lunch with him later. Oh, he's been hanging out with that Danny Ocean and that 82nd Airborne. Yeah. And he was like, oh, they all went to the army together.

That's a coincidence. Yeah. And they gave up that Nazi gold instead of burying. Yeah. There was that like story Frank was saying something. He was like, man, now that gold we could have just buried is like there's nowhere to bury it. And like, well, now there is. We can't get, we can't take back that Nazi gold situation, but we can take the gold of Vegas.

But yeah, then they make him out to be such like a Sherlock Holmes when he's literally putting like obvious puzzle pieces together like right there. Well, the moment is just like like lays it out for him. She was just like, yeah. Oh, well, that's my son. He should have been there. Now he's here with us. And then he's just like, uh-huh. Okay, she's like laying it like putting the pieces together for him and like, oh, and then that Danny Ocean is there too. Come on, Duke Santos.

But even then, like when he visited their hotel room, he walks in and he's like, oh, it's a nice hotel room. They got nice seats here. And he's like, you know what? I know it was you guys. And he was like, oh, what do you know? We don't know anything. And they guys like, I know it was you guys that stole because you're all part of the same thing. And then they just gave up like immediately. They're like, oh, fuck, he knows. He knows. He's about to say, he's like, are you the police?

He's like, are you the police? No, I work for the casinos. And they're like, talk a little bit more. And then he's like, I'm reaching for the phone. He's like, wait, are you the police? And he's like, no. And then they just like, okay, it was us. I'm sorry. Okay, we'll see you tomorrow with the money. Bye. And that just that kind of is how this movie moves along is like a drawn out conversation rather than action and decisive sort of storytelling. It's a little bit. Yeah, just kind of fluffing.

It's a it's a lot. It's a little little fluffy. Fluffy. Because there's a I and the Soderbergh parallel this one and the third act would be them just a beautiful one of the best moments of the scene of them over the movie, I feel like is them walking out to the Bellagio Fountains to was a Claire DeLune that song. I really like that song. And all looking at each other and everything, which is I think an ode to this the last shot of this movie.

But before we get to that part in this movie, there's a half hour. Yeah, we've already kind of mentioned of Duke Santos really just on the case and trying to figure it out and we get introduced to the all the casino bosses, you know, they have a meeting which they all I guess that's kind of the Andy Garcia is just them all together. And that I was just kind of like rubbing my head. I'm like, we barely get any Frank during this part. We get the one part where he shows up to their apartment.

But beyond that, we really don't get much. And it's just like, why are we doing this? And in my mind, it's like these movies never let the bad guy win. And there has to be some sort of come up and sort of some sort of way where they don't get their money, even if it's a funny way. Or if it's like, you know, like a true story would like, but not what's the one fucking the couple that's the goes on the rampage or I can't think of it with a dammit, like the man and woman that are a couple.

And there's a movie about them that they go like a bank robbery spree or yeah, or even I'll just like put you on Bonnie and Clyde. Bonnie and Clyde, thank you. Yeah, Bonnie and Clyde. But like all those movies or even I was thinking of, I think this is 60s, but it's the original Italian job with Michael Cain. It's four years for that one. But that one, I don't have to get into the full ending of that one maybe, but they're just like, they have all of their, all of their money.

They're in a big bus. They're in a car chase going around these like the talent, like the Alps in or somewhere in Italy or some obviously Italian job, but like it looks like they might be in like going over Switzerland or something, but they're like going to these like mountains and and and windy curves and they spin off on the side. The gold is on one side where the cliff is and they're on the other.

And if they are going to try to get the gold, they're going to go over and it's going to tip over to the side. And so it's leaning like a seesaw and it's like, wow, the most exciting pulse pounding moment of the movie. And then the credits just roll and they're stuck in that predicament and you're left with that like, and that's just sort of the idea.

It makes me think of the filmmaking at this time where you're left with this feeling of like, oh, those criminals, like they didn't get away with it. And now they're stuck in this ironic situation, like the irony of the situation is satisfying to walk away from rather than have the characters fulfill more of an arc. It's just more of like they are criminals and they need their comeuppance in some sort of way and some sort of ironic sort of way or or or brutality, which is in some of them.

And this one, it's fun and or it's it's it is ironic and it's played for laughs. It was a goof. But is I mean, am I I'm kind of barreling along here to the to the end? No, I think you're right. Yeah. No, I think we're doing all right. If anything, yeah, I mean, a lot of this plot, yeah, is such fluff and so long-winded that it's fine that we're at this point. I mean, we've already started getting. Yeah. I mean, I have no qualms about it.

If anything, I'm starting to think about this idea of, you know, now, yeah, kind of touching and on this difference between the filmmaking of this period and then the remakes and then

the films that have come after this. And it just makes me think of this idea of like postmodernism with, you know, like Tarantino and Soderbergh, where, you know, they're such, you know, their whole stick is is that they grew up from a generation that watched that, you know, had movie stores that they went to and watched movies like this because I'm sure their parents were big rat pack fans. So they saw this movie and got inspired by it. But then, you know, in with the modern

sensibility of it, you make the changes that you would have liked to see happen. And then that's where you get the Soderbergh stuff where you're like, well, obviously you want the criminals to win because that's way more fun. It was so crazy how this movie ended to me. I had no idea it was going to end like this. Me neither. No, I was so blown away by how it ended because it just like literally it was like insult to injury for me where there are so many moments that felt

like it was like air let out of a bag. And then for the movie itself to kind of like end on this like just fart like it was crazy. A great shot. That shot is awesome. The shot is awesome. But that's what I'm saying about really get the right pull out. Pull that from underneath. And there's a little bit of a laugh. I don't know. You kind of just like chuckle a little bit inside. But a little bit of a lot. Yeah. It's yeah. I was kind of I was kind of okay with it,

but it just took so long to get there that it was I ever winded it twice. And I was like, is this really how this movie is ending right now? I like had to like rewatch it. I was like, was I am like, am I not paying attention enough? Like, is this the ending? I think it was frustrating where I was like calling out the I mean, already then putting in the trash. I was like, this seems like a bad idea. And then taking it sort of, I mean, taking it out of there. It was like, oh,

I get it. Great. Super smart. And that's why you got you hired Sammy, of course, by BT dubs. There's blackface in this movie as well. So that's a thing. Unfortunately, that unnecessary unnecessary unnecessary to. Holy fuck. It was unnecessary. And then they made a joke about it. Yeah. And yeah, God, there was a couple of things that men did not age. While we had talked about like arms whole thing is that he's joking about becoming the secretary of the interior. And

then he's going to make women slaves again. He's gonna do away with women voting and turning them into slaves. And turn them into slaves. I was like, Oh, no, Dino, dude. That's exactly that reaction to see it to that. And also to the block to the blackface. I was just kind of like, Oh, man. Oh, no way. Oh, shit. Like, why do we have to? And what did they say? They're like, how do you get it off? Like to Sammy Davis? You know, I'm like, Jesus Christ. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's right. It's yeah, I like, you know, like, I only lie to girls. That was that was one. There's there's a I might I might go through. Maybe I'll go through my notes real quick because we're at a lot of that movie didn't age well. It did not. The overall movie did not age well. No, I'll just see. I'll run through some of some of my notes. Honey, Honeyface was one of the girls that is dancing and then it's the one guy's husband or sorry, a wife.

And then when the other guy watching her stands up and says, I want to wrap you and take you home and spread you on my waffle. Yep. I remember that. And then they get really mad and they get into a into a brawl in the bar. You want you like a good bar brawl. That's that's what you want in in a movie like this. I got a quote to where it says, uh, I can't remember the scene was like, but everything all right, Joe. Yep. Like tulips in July, tulips in July. Yeah. There's a lot of

that stuff for you. Just kind of like, okay. Okay. The whole like, I can't live my life according according to whatever color of the card. Hostess knows it. I don't think that would ever happen again. Where like common sayings in like pop culture will be based on when a plan is like regularly blooming. Yeah. That we might be past that kind of nomenclature that lexicon

I mean, a bit of like flower analogies and metaphors and things. What I thought was really also kind of like, um, progressive of it is that the love interest for Sinatra were very age appropriate. Yeah. Yeah. I thought so. Both of the women were like his age and had their own shit going on and they just didn't want to put up with his bullshit. And I dug like, yeah, I dug into that too. And I, you know, I know the other woman, it was very much like she's a pill, all of

this stuff. So I wasn't like, that's pretty dated shit. But like when they introduced her, it was, I was like, Oh, she's, yeah, she's, she's, she's a bill. Which is a bummer because, you know, it's like, no, she's just like, I, I know you're fucking around and I don't like it. You know, that's her whole stick like, and rightfully so. But I, God, there was so many, there was moments

with the, like Frank's relationship with Angie Dickinson. And that's one of my notes as well as like Angie Dickinson kind of makes like everybody else is like, she's such a good actress that everybody else, like it makes it more noticeable how bad of an actor everybody else she's definitely in like a different movie because she's coming out with such a she comes across as a little monotone, but the energy that she's bringing in the beats that she's playing off of

her just like completely fed up, which I enjoy with all these guys. She's like, whatever, who cares? And she's like, no, it's fucking matters. He's a fucking stop and you can't have women as slaves. God damn it. Do you know? Because yeah, like, so how was it? Someone say like, I don't like the girls. Yeah, that whatever that one. And then he was talking about someone was talking about being worried about going to jail for one to five and like, you know, take one to

five to count, baby. You can buy a college or something like that. That was like, why would I want to buy a college college? A fickle fella stick with me. I'm sincere. A little Dino stuff where they go in and out of the elevator. We're like, Oh, Frank and Dino together, but they just switch places in the elevator. And I was like, Oh, wait, wait. And then Dino was like, Oh, I'll

stick with you. I'm a sincere guy. You know what? I'm I'm a big bus. I got so suckered in on this these moments where it's like you like, let me get you to a bar and then they go to the bar, have a conversation and it's like, I need to get away from the bar and then they like kind of sucks you in, but then somebody leaves. I don't know. There was some moments in the movie that I

really did enjoy where yeah, I don't know. They're just the comfortability between amongst like Frank and Dino where they have obviously done this a bajillion times where they've talked to women and course them to have a conversation with them, have these conversations and then somebody gets up

and leaves and all of this. Yeah, I did. I did. Yeah, I just there isn't effortless quality that comes across and some of these that really thrives for me on on the chemistry and that goes beyond yeah, filmmaking, dialogue writing is just having a lightning in a bottle with with those guys signing up to do a movie together, which yeah, you really got to find a way to catch that and condense it and liquify it and pump it into my veins and let me just hang out with Dino playing

piano and the other guys just gathering around and then just kind of shooting the shit and drinking and having fun for a bit after they get their money and then they get roll off into the sunset.

And guys, yeah, it's really something to just have a friend that's able to just kind of noodle at a piano while you're drinking because then just like with a majority of the songs by Dino and Frank and Sammy as well is that there's just such an energy of like, like you can kind of just jump in and you don't even really like loud like no, the music necessarily, but it just it has this energy that presents itself that you're so easily like I get the wavelength that you're on and I

can just tune my frequency to it in such a like instant and easy way of like, yeah, you know, just like you can kind of just talk saying through stuff and everybody knows the melody and the cadence and all of that is yeah, there's something really, really to be said about that. Did you notice that whenever Dino was playing the piano, it would always pan to like a group of girls and they would have like a dead face and I'm like, you know, this is Dean Martin, you know,

like just anybody. Yeah, this is fucking Dean Martin. But they were like, we don't want people to know that he's Dean Martin. So let us get three people who don't give a fucking shit about him and then pan to those girls right after he's playing in the movie. Yeah, ain't that a kick in the head. Yeah. Oh man. Yeah. And then I guess I yeah, what else we got? I got steady steady as down country lovin was one of the other things. There was a lady

with a haircut that looked like a sombrero. Oh yeah, who's who's the lady that kisses Dino is somebody to yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that's Sherry McClain. Yes. Okay. Sherry McClain looking great in the movie. God yeah, because I'm funny. It's funny too. Yeah, I've only known her as a obviously an older woman. But yeah, she was trying to think of what I would know her the most from. God, I liked her. Yeah, she's great. Who's this girl? I was like, who's this little druggy?

Like out of place and it was clear that yeah, they were like giving her time because she was somebody I didn't I just didn't know at the at the time. But that was like, yeah, and I love that that in the vein of this sort of thing of like having cameos and weirdly is how I would know her. I feel like I know. Yeah, older, older her looks like older. Yeah. How about a kiss dips? What? Oh yeah. And then she dips Dino. I like that because I think he's trying to keep her from

looking seeing a certain direction. So Dino is the one who gets dipped. And that's just I don't know. That was a funny, funny scene. When the countdown begins, the guy comes up, pucker up your lips ladies. And then we get the transition, which is one of the more artsy edits of the movie, where it's counting down from 20 or 15 or whatever for the New Year's and each time it goes between the different casinos of balloon comes out and edits to the next one. And then a balloon comes

up and it's the next one. Really cool. The only thing the only note that I would make with that would make it a little cooler was in each different casino. They have different color balloons. Yes. So it was a clear like all you had to do was like, okay, so we're starting with red balloons in the first casino. The next one's going to be so make the next makes the make the transition to green balloon. And then you're in the green balloon room and then you're about to go in the

pink one, make the next transition to pink balloon, but they were all red. And I was like, oh, yeah, almost had it was like really cool. And I'm like, oh, if you just change the color to the what's the next one's going to be that'd be sweet. That's so funny as a critique is something that I loved and noticed as well about that is the casinos. Safe's all have their name on the inside of it, but it was like different colors, but the same

exact like lettering is. Yeah, they would open up the safe for each one and it would be like sans. It's all like the same print. You know, entered the sends. They all got the safe from like one guy's safe guy. We all got the same interior safe driver, operator guy. Yeah, he's safe from Arizona. Yeah, that's why we hired him. He's one of the 11. Don't you know? You're not gonna. Yeah, you're not gonna have a safe without your name in the in the inside of it, would you? Gotcha.

Overall, I felt like the movie could have been bigger. And to James's point from earlier that they should have put in more of like actual Vegas because the movie, the way they set it up, it just felt it felt smaller when it's like you're robbing five of the biggest hotels and casinos in Vegas. Like, yeah, you just see the alleyway, the trash cans, the desert on the way out, or the rooms inside of it. Some marquees like that same marquee and over. And then that last final shot of all

of them together is like, we got to have one shot of you outside all together. Come on, guys. It would have benefited from like a shot of somebody walking into the casino with the camera tracking them going through it or like somebody walking into an elevator and then going up to another floor like they should have been playing Elvis during this movie. We just reedit the movie and was Elvis big then? No. Was he? He was about to be right?

Yeah, I know. That was the joke. But yeah, what if they just like go back and add like Chris Isaac? I never want to be the beauty. We live in others. I love that Sammy Davis Jr. scene in the hangar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is my in the documentary. It's like they're asking him like, why don't you guys have more? I did something along the like more scenes together or songs together in the movie. And Dino's like, yeah, we don't really like musicals. So

fuck you. For like the most quintessential music like musicians in that era. Such a bummer. It's like, oh man, I want that on film. Like it's cool to listen to CDs and stuff. You guys fucking around at Vegas and I'm sure there's like some plenty of clips. I kind of wanted to go on YouTube and just watch all the best of rap pack stuff after this movie because I just like, I want the good stuff because this doesn't really come across as getting into the good stuff of

the rap pack. And I feel like I'm kind of like edging for that a little bit. So I feel like I got to like, yeah, I got to see it out of that. It's going to blow. You guys want to go to Vegas? I felt like people don't do that anymore. Like you never have like single, like single, successful stars combining together successfully into a group. It's always the opposite where like you have like a one direction. Like they're really very successful as a group. And then they

are successful individually. It's never the opposite, which I felt like the rap pack was the opposite where these guys were individually very successful. And then they combine together and everyone was just like, I'll have another like fuck. Yeah. Yeah. That should be their tagline. The rap pack. I'll have the rap pack. I would have loved it. Yeah, more of a, I think we've now I feel like a broken record, but this movie is just so light on moments where

they're all together. And, and it really, and I'm not even asking for a lot of that, but definitely more than we got. Yeah. I think that's the resounding thing. And like doing this, we're about, we're going to get into some reviews and then judge and figure out the scoring of it all. But this is our oldest movie we've ever done. And for a score like this to be represented on Groton Tomatoes is something that was far and away from existing at the time.

And someone, yeah, whatever how they tabulated all the reviews that they did put on to the site that represents oceans love. And there's clearly like critics that did not care for this movie and looking into a little bit of what's out there about the making of it makes sense as to them not really giving a shit in like a very like detrimental way rather than, oh my God, can you see Brad Pitt just like throwing away lines and always eating and how much fun the

editing and the music is. And that's what a way this is just kind of like not tapping into what we want. You guys good. Should I keep rolling? Should we take a break at all? What did it, what did you say? Wouldn't you say that that's something that taking into account that taking into account because like the ratings on Groton Tomatoes were taken many, many years

ahead of time. So these critic ratings and these audience ratings are done in like the 2000s where it's all it's kind of like hard to gauge because it's not like at the time. Yeah, these are I mean, and for me, this is all worthwhile conversation because I don't pretend to like have Ron Tomatoes being accurate description of of the of what movies are rated. That's not really what we're doing here is like living to the standards around tomatoes and believing

those numbers are accurate. It's kind of digesting at all watching the movie ourselves, going through some reviews and coming out on the other side and kind of hopefully figuring out like our own opinion about it and how kind of slanted honestly the Ron Tomatoes system is in figuring out what movie to watch and getting down to the bottom of the polarizing opinions

is something that is dependent upon like the site that I don't even fully understand. And so for these older movies, I'm not sure which one of these are like publications from a time gone on pass and they're you know, republicizing in some sort of way on here or they're newer ones, but they fall into the critics section. I'm going to read some of those and then I'm going to read some audience reviews that fall into the other section. And then that's I don't know, I just

feel like it gives us an idea of what this site represents itself. And it yeah, it's interesting to see which side we come out of it on as as well because this one was like, it was like, oh, it's got to be great. This movie's got to be great. It's got to be classic. We did we did remake it as a society. And we and there's, you know, sequels and even side movies of it as well. So this has got to be getting coming out the other side has been interesting. So I'm curious where

we're all going to be. But what's it? So my initial like understanding of it all is that that so this movie is polarized because the critics rated it low, but the audience rated it really high. Correct. But when the audience started rating this movie, it was definitely 20, 30 plus years after the movie was set. So these people watching it are essentially similar to us as if we watched it today. Like this movie has been around for a long time. And

there's not for me. It's like, I don't understand. I'm trying to understand like, like a majority of the audience like really enjoyed this movie. So I'm trying to understand like, what about this movie they enjoy and not not in a negative sense, but just like literally like, I want to understand.

And that avenue is I feel like in my yeah, like more open for the audience to continue to update their opinion, whereas critics, you don't see a lot of publications coming out with like, here's our updated Ocean's 11 review, but audience side has a little bit more free will to kind of like write a newer review and continue to change and skew that average score in different directions.

But yeah, I've tried to find ways to do other movies that were polarizing at the time of their release and may not be represented represented that way on Rotten Tomatoes in terms of polarization, but movies like The Thing, which became a cult classic into just a stone cold classic.

Now, at the time was more maligned and not really celebrated as as it is. So people coming back on the other side and and enjoying it as something I think that could be worth a discussion and finding going more into the history of a film and and breaking down its and its its reception and it's, you know, further reception to even like other things like The Room or something like a bad movie that's so been so recontextualized and that that contextualization is such a big big part of

it with other things like campy sort of movies, but a movie like this, a movie like this. Some people move away. Before we get into reviews, I mean, if you were to pick your favorite character out of the bunch, do you know, do you know? Mine, Sammy, baby. Nice. I mean, I like Sammy, but I kind of like somewhat related more to Jimmy Foster as a character. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I liked it. I like his mom reminded me of my mom. If I'm being very fun. Yeah. Yeah. Just like, what are you

going to spend this money on? Like, oh, you know, nothing. Blah, blah, blah. Well, it looks like we need to find a Frank for our group. Calling everybody out there. Let's we're going to be interviewing Frank's. Yeah, we got got the helicopter helicopter parents. I understand how that goes. Well, who should we live? We all get to check out some reviews. You guys need a breaker or anything freshen up beverages. Let's take a minute to freshen up Beverginos.

I mean, a minute. All right, I'll be back. All right. BRBs. And welcome back to the podcast, everybody. It's PolarizePod. We're talking Oceans 11. It is carrying a 48% from the critics and 81% from the audience. Let's talk about some reviews from both of these sides of things from the critics. We're going to start with Nathaniel Hood from the young folks of five out of 10. Nathaniel says, if you don't know me, you want me to

John? Yeah. Uh huh. We don't care. Okay. I can't whistle. Yep. So I'm just going to go. Oh, talking about the talking Nathaniel. Oh my God. I'm having fun. I'm having fun. John. It's New Year's Eve. This is like we're not yet. Yeah. I know. We're at the precipice of New Year's before. Okay. Let's do reviews and then I'll ask my question. What's your quick? Nope. Let's do the review with you. No, let's do the reviews first. Nathaniel Hood says it's an autopsy of the greatest generations

self mythology. I read that it's an autopsy of the greatest generations self mythology. So it's like a backhanded compliment, right? Because the performances are corpse like, right? It's like criticizing a historical sentiment towards the greatest generation. He's like taking the greatest generation a task, which is a pretty hot take. It's a pretty hot take. No, it's not. It's it's a it's a common take recently. Yeah.

Yeah. The when he says that when you read that line, it kind of feels like he's he reads that line and then he's like, okay, guys, give me another drink. Like it's a very cocky thing to say. Paste print. Smell my farts. Clyde Gilmore from McClain's magazine. The British tackled a similar plot a bit earlier in the League of Gentlemen and made a better job of it. Ocean's Gang includes such clans stalwarts as Dean Martin Peter Loughard and Sammy Davis Jr. This one is doesn't really

have much to it, but it's I think it's of the time if I'm not mistaken. It seems a little personal attack from Jonathan Rosenbaum, a Chicago reader. Jonathan Rosenbaum's a good one known critic says it's terminally boring. I related to that first. I related to that. I read the reviews before I watched the movie and I was like, it's a little boring. Yeah. From Bosley Crowther from New York Times, two and a half out of five young people are likely to find this more

appropriate and bewitching than do their elders. The latter are likely to feel less gleeful in the presence of heroes who rob and steal. I get a real feeling this is of the time. My porn star name as well. Yeah, this was August 11. This is written August August 11 1960 by Bosley Crowther, otherwise known as Brandini in Ocean's 7th heaven. Ocean seven minutes in heaven. Ocean seven minutes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. This is a review of the time. This Bosley says it's a

surprisingly nonchalant flipping attitude toward crime and attitude toward mortal. It roadblocks a lot of valid gags is maintained throughout Ocean's 11 which arrived at the Capitol yesterday. Frank Sinatra, who was the power behind the picture, should have taken a couple of his merit badges taken away. The idea that is that a bunch of fellows Danny Ocean's breezy gang of wartime buddies and heroes are assembled to do a little job of robbing five major casinos in Las Vegas on

New Year's Eve. That's all 10 cheerful chummy fellows and Mr. Ocean, a stalwart crew conspire with Akeem Tamaroff as their boss to pick up a bundle of dough and they do it too. That's the sad thing almost as easy as rolling off a log or rolling a sequence of naturals with loaded dice in the Hollywood film. These 11 guys knock out the power lines, hit the cashier's cages in one fell swoop and rake some $5 million in their convenient little black bags. They're so clever

and humorous about it. And the casino people are such dopes. Well, why not? Wasn't the crime team schooled together in a lot of 82nd Airborne Division drops? That's the way it is. No dishonor, no moral misgivings, no sweat. Outside of the normal natural tension that occurs while the crime is being done. After the whole thing is over and a hijacker moves in to grab the swag, there is no

built in implication that the boys have done something wrong. There is just an ironic, unexpected and decidedly ghoulish twist whereby they are deprived of their pickings and what seems they're just desserts. This is the flaw in the picture. This and the incidental fact that a wholesale holdup of Las Vegas would not so not be so easy as it is made to look for the substance is generally amusing indeed very funny in spots. The dialogue is cleverly written and the roles are definitely

and colorfully played. Mr. Sinatra is crushingly casual. Mr. Tamaroff is a droll with vast spares and Dean Martin is twitchy with wisecracks as a nightclub performer who knows the world. Indeed all the fellows crack crackle blithely. Peter Loughard as a wealthy cyber right. Sammy Davis Jr. as a trash truck jockey and Richard Conte as a cynical ex con. Elka Chase and Angie Dickison and Patrick Patrice Wymore are equally cool as some of the girls.

I think that's kind of just breaking down and then he kind of gets into the final line that I read near the beginning but this review is interesting kind of getting yeah Las Vegas looks flashy in color as naturally it would and there's plenty of atmospheric detail such as gambling tables girls in one arm bandits Lewis milestones direction suits the movement of Harry Browns and Charles Lodero's script which is entirely centripetal focusing exclusively on Mr. Sinatra

and his gang and yeah young people are all it's saying young people are likely to find this more appropriate and bewitching than the elders the latter are likely to so interesting to think about heroes who rob steal and there's and he's saying even in this time and how we're criticizing for the movie not giving the robbers their money and just having them walk away in the end happy this review is saying that even the mere fact that the main characters are robbing and stealing

is already pretty crazy and probably just suited for younger people that are part of this new counterculture and older people are going to be already like put off walking in the door I'm like this this they're like this movie's about people who steal how are the how is there movies about anti-heroes this is preposterous but okay are you guys ready to switch over to a few audience reviews and then we'll we'll wrap up here sounds good all right let's see from northwest outdoors

person five stars titled delightful everything one might hope for from a wrap pack movie and more cloney has nothing on frank nothing on frank cloney has nothing on on frank that's aggressive yeah well kind of frank's a not your fan it's a competition always has been from yendor titled 11 stars if possible for the wrap pack it's five stars is all they could do probably one of the best heist films of all time period oceans 11 has been scrutinized often on over the years and

now that all the original wrap packers have passed away and with the steve soderberg and george cloney remake with sequels completed the film has been elevated to classic status when the film was shown on network and local television over the years before the advent of vhs and dvd the movie was padded with commercials and almost shown to two and a half and three hour lengths the movie suffered in its pacing and tone when shown without the commercial interruptions on video pbs or cable

it fares way better even though there really is there is really a serious and understated tone to this wrap packer film the real treat here is just to see the guys who represented the swinging coolness of the late 50s early 60s of america before the advent of the counterculture late 60s the vietnam war and the death of jvk jfk together on an adventure the story is straightforward and then technical jargon of the heist is easy to understand compared to its modern day remakes and the characters

are all likable the twist ending is classic and that final stroll in the las vegas strip of all the characters after that cruel irony of an ending surmises that even though the guys lost the dough they didn't lose their cool baby oh i love that hell yeah um that that feels good i think that was a pretty that feels great pretty thorough i mean there's a lot of people that just saying it's a classic and then it's a lot of like comparisons to uh the the remake of kind of just like yeah you

don't you don't get it uh these uh cloney pit heads they just don't get it i could do one more from teeth air titled old vegas is gone now but this movie was great if you have seen oceans 11 with brad pit and cloney i think you will like this movie if nothing else to see how old vegas was and looked ran a fun look into the past i wouldn't be born for a quite a few years after this movie even came out and i can totally agree new vegas doesn't hold a candle to new vegas which is a shame i think

which is a shame because it's lost something when big corpse took over and i would have loved to go when vegas was vegas too bad the only thing about the movie that i didn't like too much was how they did the ending but it's still a great movie movie was shot for the most part in casinos which is very cool so to the performers but it's nice to visit yep yep okay yeah the people yeah a lot of people just really just love the love the wrap pack i think it's yeah yeah it's fair

multi-generational favorite someone says my 18 year old daughter and 76 year old mother watch it together and love it uh it's uh reminds me of a gathering around and watching a bond movie in some ways maybe maybe like an old and like an old school one and just having that feeling of the quality and and the time and like you were saying the nice leathery faces and the sun of men's faces uh just gives me that sort of feeling and and for me this yeah this movie

for the audience i could see being a cozy comfort movie and having a visual window into the wrap pack even in a small way being together and being visually accessible and having a little bit of songs must be nice and um the polarization i think comes with a lot of the stuff we've already criticized it about and i think the the critics are just kind of attacking the pacing and the whole reason for this movie existing is something that i don't know i it's probably is a parent as long

as hollywood has been a thing if there's like big star if there's big stars i was kind of addressing the polarization thing and then we can get into i can i can jump i want to give our guests the opportunity but uh just kind of talking about like the polar polarization of it all and i think the what this movie is propped up on is big names and i think critics for as long as that's been a reason for a movie exists do you take issue with that being the reason for it and then not

bringing enough substance and just being propped up through these these names and faces that'll bring people in the door but then whether it delivers or not that's i think the dividing line because i don't think critics feel like it delivers on the promise because i think enough people like the wrap pack including enough critics that if they did a good job with these this cast because it has an excellent cast and and a good enough reason to be there as like a old classic

heist movie which many audience members think it is uh yeah i think it would be more successful across the board that was my reading of it but i would like to hear your guys's uh reading as well and uh final thoughts and uh numerical scores yeah i'm gonna give my polarization uh to bed on it for this segment um because yeah i think it's good that we should continue to yeah have this polarization segment maybe in a different location but of the podcast but nonetheless like i understand

we heard from both sides i feel like hearing it totally no i got okay now just like getting a little read on it yeah and then yeah jumping into final thoughts but either way the fact is is like any people that are positively reviewing this are understanding the legendariness of the rat pack and just to see them in a movie together and then to the critics side of it arguably not enough uh and arguably not well enough but the fact that this is a movie with the rat pack premiering in

Las Vegas during the 60s when they were just crushing it like i can understand somebody who it's fun to think about this concept what you know while i was doing this and while we were talking about it and all that of just thinking about somebody who is like 70 60 or 70 years old being like wanting to review a movie on rotten tomatoes and just um so i watched this on this uh like free streaming app or whatever and there was only one and it has comments on it and there was only

one comment on this movie and it was this was my dad's favorite movie i watched this as a kid i always knew the rat pack was such a big deal and this movie has so much of what the 60s are so much of what my dad liked and for that it's a favorite of mine and so i can understand so much of the audience scoring being people that weird like not weirdly very cool uh being like i want to get on this fun thing that is rotten tomatoes and talk and just make a comment and positively review a

movie that was such a pivotal part of my childhood or such a pivotal part of my dad's adulthood and i can understand why this is rated so highly because it is just the testament to the rat pack being as important of the group of guys being rapscallians in like the idea of the rat pack as a person who loves trends and who is obsessed with culture like the fact that this has an 81 audience score is like in my mind such a good and funny thing about culture where a thing like rotten tomatoes

exists which is very like newish but something that was so fucking cool was the rat pack so that kind of transcends the fact of like you know maybe you can imagine people who are older don't know what rotten tomatoes are or what the internet are but some of them get it and they're letting you know that universal coolness was the fucking rat pack not to my not only to myself but to my parents and i want to come on here and vote this positively because they were in a movie together and it

really fucking mattered um and that's awesome and so i can understand though the critic side of it where this movie is so boring and there's a lot of things artistically that are wrong about it that the generation deserves so much better and so that's yeah i get the polarization yeah well christian if you want to address any of that that we that we talked about and any of that the dividing scores uh go for it otherwise just give your final facts and then a score from 0 to

100 of a movie with 11 in the title so to Brandon's point i understand the polarization of the movie and thinking back to myself i do and i this is deep that i really do believe that that a lot of people a lot of the audience rated this movie very high because of the rat pack and how the rat pack was viewed and the rat pack was essentially like the group of like the coolest guys in entertainment and that's how it was and i get it and they were and everything about them

and after having two rusty nails at the beginning of this podcast and that in itself of a drink is a very badass drink it's a liquor on liquor drink that is and it's good can you imagine can you imagine doing two shows and then a movie after this i guess you've done one so far i could like five of them he's doing he did one very well like we're we're doing like a podcast is essentially what they're doing right we're essentially the the rat pack here we got it yeah yeah and like i understand

i understand and respect i understand and respect why they have such an high high audience score but i cannot as a movie critic wholeheartedly give them anything above like 70 percent yeah like honestly right if i was if i was gonna rate the movie i would give it and taking into account the like high level of like rat pack and quality like the the actors and whatnot at that time i would give them a solid like 67 yeah 67 out of 100 yeah that would be my rate generous

and it's funny one of the critics i don't i don't think you mentioned it but one of the critics when i was reading the reviews on ron tomatoes one of the critics said they took an amazing idea and did like subpar with that idea in itself the idea is amazing and like with a remake you can kind of see how amazing they made the idea into a movie but yeah i would give us a 67 out of 100 that is my rating respectfully fair uh i will continue on the review train and and say that

this movie wasn't all bad and the frustrating part was having a lot to a lot of non important things in between the stuff that actually was fun and mattered and was enjoyable and for me the yeah the middle chunk of the of the meeting uh and the actual heist the ending and the beginning was was like fluffy fluffy um and maybe if they cut a little bit more the beginning maybe the fluffy fluffy and that's what i this one's talking about and you're saying was that it's

you're saying yeah yeah fluffy fluffy that's what yeah oceans fluffy and maybe the last part would have been interesting to have that sort of epilogue of them of the duke santos getting back if the beginning wasn't so front loaded with bullshit that didn't really matter to me and seeing something do it so much better and the in the newer one and seeing so many other heist movies do things better it's it's tough to recontextualize this movie properly in the time that

it came out and what it meant to the people seeing it at the time and at the time it would mean arguably more to the younger people uh to uh a critics eye so it's tough to really judge in that sense but seeing i think having those questions in my mind of the making of this movie and being frustrated by not seeing enough of the main stars and the reason that you're walking in the door of the wrap pack spending enough time on screen watching the little documentary i'd recommend

if you can find it on youtube the oceans 11 story and they're really breaking it down of like they like he knowing frank sinatra would really only do one take fucking like drains the energy of this movie entirely and knowing that uh contextualizes that at least in a way that makes it me understand this movie and my frustrations better uh rather than just like oh well maybe i'm wrong because i'm from a different time and you start to blame yourself a little bit because

you're like oh this is a classic movie i should like it like what's wrong with me but then understanding how they made it was just through a flurry of alcohol and no sleep and cranky frank oh cranky frank one take cranky frank just won't just won't stay long enough and we didn't get you know enough of enough of the good stuff is is enough for me to not give it a positive score um and i yeah i'm not i'm not being gonna be in the fresh range i'm gonna give this one a 44 yeah naughty naughty

it's a little bit of a naughty movie a little bit of stinky stinky and i feel and i feel bad like giving like yeah like a 19 move from 1960 a lot of great people uh but it just doesn't do a lot for me maybe it's a little harsh but i'm fine with it you're fine with it it's fine um um man cheers to everybody out there brandini from the bar with his final review happy new years to everyone um um so with this movie i think it is

a great representation of the time period that it came out in for better or for worse i think there are so many choices in story and in visuals of this movie that are dated and no longer fun and interesting and i easily would argue boring there's a lot of this movie that i would have loved for it to be so much more energetic condensed straightforward especially for what the plot ultimately is which is i think pretty straightforward

uh the fact that this movie drags uh is a bummer because at the end of the day the power of this film is the rat pack which is a group of guys that are cheers to all you all you people out there just drinkers fun loving drinker guys and i think that for better or for worse is something that okay maybe there are a lot of things about them as them as who they are are problematic but i think there is a i don't know just it is so indicative of its time it has things that

continue to i think like their energy i think still holds like a there's still a little bit of that in the culture today because it is cool like they are cool and i love the fact that this movie exists uh i think that for better for worse again the rat pack being cool and what they represent and who they were are interesting and even though this movie could have been more interesting than it is i think this is such a great representation of its time and for that

i'm going to give this a score of the year that it came out i think this is a 60 percent baby hey baby yes yeah yeah yeah oh he's a beat oh he's got his beat till his glasses on because he's from 1960 well uh congratulations on another excellent episode from uh from 1960 um before we go i was wondering if you guys want to play a new game i came up with the answer is yes i think i want to call it smoke or fire because it's loosely based on the card game of of the same title that that

we sometimes play game gets you drunked up you don't have to drink but uh we can we can play nonetheless so i'm going to be going through christian do you have a drink okay well if you get a if you get an easy guy right now i know you have these allergies we talked about it it's okay though these are my allergies yeah we'll just do if you get it wrong then you take a drink or anything none of the given giving drinks or anything uh bless you god bless you and

uh and to all of you uh Merry Christmas and uh let's go through a game with smoker smoker fire and i think it'll be pretty self-explanatory as we roll through it it'll be through the oceans movies so i'm gonna start with christian and i'm just gonna ask you god bless you bless you for the critics rating of oceans 11 do you think it's smoker fire do you think it's fresh or rotten i think it's fresh i think it's fresh okay so i'm gonna give you i think they're a point because

you're right and so now brandon i'm gonna ask you for oceans 11 the audience score do you think it's so christian has to give a drink or if you want to do the giving i was just gonna say you get it wrong christian has to give a drink i'm giving a drink to somebody yeah hosts included you can pick me as well okay but then i can't drink for anybody anything so whatever okay whatever all right uh so brandon for oceans 11 is the audience score fresh or rotten smoker fire oceans 11 the cloney

yeah the clans 2001 is the audience score fresh or rotten for oceans 11 for the audience score fresh you are correct christian take take a drink okay now i want you to guess brand uh no i will go no i'm trying to think okay we'll go to sure christian i want you to guess the score of the critic rating for four oceans level 48 the cloney one we're talking about for the cloney over the cloney cloney one i want you to guess the critic rating the 60 65 65 you are wrong okay but

that's okay and i go i i don't yeah that's okay because you're not gonna you're not gonna guess that right but you're not gonna you're not gonna have to drink anything makes it so intense but it's fine for brandon now i want you to guess is the real score a higher or lower than christian score that he gets right now okay it's higher so you are correct yes and then so you did a point two drinks now he's just trying to get drinks going here i don't know i'm this is you only have

to do this if you want i'm just trying to have fun here okay so same question to you brandon i want you to guess the audience score the numerical value of the audience score it's uh for the new okay for oceans 11 76 76 you were wrong it's almost impossible to get so no worries about drinks but christian i want you to guess okay i'm gonna take a drink is it higher or lower than 76 and if you get it right then i guess i'm just gonna give you a point i got my little point thing i'm not

doing drinks but is it higher is a higher or lower than 76 i think it's uh it's higher yeah that's correct it's an 80 okay i'll take a drink so you got two points to brandon's one and in my count here if my if my tabulations are correct and this i'm playing a little fast and loose with this game so i hope everyone sticks with us and we'll do our best here so now we're gonna move on to oceans 12 christian i don't do i don't actually we'll switch to brandon for the critic because brandon got

audience good now you're gonna now you're gonna do a critic score brandon okay is it fresh or rotten for oceans 12 for oceans 12 is the credit rating fresh you're rotten you are wrong you do not get a point it is not fresh okay it's not so christian how the audience score this is an i'm trying to figure out the order the audience score for this it is is it fresh or rotten this is the smoker fire section so is it fresh for the audience for oceans 12 is the audience score fresh or rotten

run it they made an oceans 13 so i'm gonna though i did not personally like oceans 12 i'm gonna say it's fresh you are correct the audience score is fresh so you will get a point i'll have to drink great which i did you can give the host a drink i'm just gonna take one for a posterity steak for solidarity with brandon all right so now we're moving on to guessing the numerical value and then doing the higher or lower situation i think this is a pretty good

pretty good way to do it so brandon you're on the critic side you know it's not fresh it is rotten what is the score would you say 46 46 it is not 46 that's okay that's a really tough one if you were to do it that'd be a two-pointer let's say that's a two-pointer if you get a right arm two or three i don't know it's gonna be extra points you guess 46 it is not 46 christian is it higher or lower than 46 higher higher it is higher you get a point

all right christian what is the audience score for oceans 12 you know it is fresh what is it 81 81 it is not 81 that's okay brandon do you think it's higher or lower than 81 slower that is correct you get a point so by my tabulation i'm trying to remember if i'd miss a point in the first round i don't think i did but it's four to two christian in the lead we're gonna keep on chugging along here if you guys are having a good time yeah go through all of them

i'm having a great time i'm having a good time all right so we're going back to christian starting with the critics for oceans 13 it is it is the third oceans movie not the 13th it is a fresh or a rotten movie christian by the critic side according to the critics rotten rotten that is incorrect it is fresh you're the critics drink drink it brandini for the audience is it fresh or rotten fresh baby you are correct you get a point drink drink christian drink you get a point

all right and then james breaks too okay i'm like i get two i get two that you get two we're going down the line dirty i get two dirty i get two you when you get out uh so we're back to critic side christian guess the score you know that it is not run you know that would you say 66 that is wrong that's okay brandon higher or lower than 66 higher you are correct you get a point i should drink all right i realized that i don't actually tell you the score at the end of all this

all this questioning i got to find a way to do that i feel like for the last one this is a work this is a work this is a work in progress all right so now we're moving on to audience and that's brand brandon guess the score of the audience for oceans 13 it is 58 58 percent that's wrong is it higher or lower christian higher higher that is correct you get a point i drink two no i drink one and then james trains one okay okay uh and then i guess since we're moving on to the

next movie i'll tell you oceans 13 is standing at a 70% critics 75 audience wow we weren't close we'll go backwards to oceans 12 which was a 55% critics 60% audience yeah oceans 11 which is an 83% critics 80% audience just to give you a little bit of an idea of the the context around this franchise of movies and now we're going to move on to the last one we're currently standing at a five to four christian lead it's a tight race wow and if this ties at the end i'm gonna have to find a

way to get a tiebreaker going because this is getting pretty ocean sea but it's not tie i mean i'm doing ocean we are currently about to do oceans eight but god damn if we tie after after all of this then i don't know well there's yeah okay we'll see what happens all right brandon you're gonna do the critic side is it rotten or fresh for oceans eight rotten for the critics you say you are wrong so all right christian does not get to point no points for that so yeah that's if you only if

you get a right you get a point so christian audience score is it rotten or fresh wait is what right for oceans eight the audience scored is it rotten or fresh rotten that is correct you get a point oh i have to drink i'll take a drink as well all right now brandon this is a big big moment for you because if you get the exact score i will give you two points i'm gonna get it you know i'm gonna get it or should it be three i don't know yeah we'll do two or maybe

can you guess the critic score for oceans eight which is not rotten i'll give you that hint because you already guessed 78 78 percent that's incorrect christian is the score higher or lower than 78 percent lower that is correct damn it okay i'm taking a drink and then james you have to take one too oh shit okay now i it's it's a lost cause but let's finish it out christian audience score what do we got for oceans eight 79 i should have warned you that we already established

earlier i should remind you of the hint that it is pew pew rotten by the audience which is okay okay okay ignore that 59 59 that is incorrect brandon higher or lower than 59 lower i have a correct and oceans eight stands a 68 percent by the critics and a 47 by the audience it is classified as a polarizing movie if we ever choose to do oceans eight uh that could be one straight to christian an arc christian just won yeah well not that one

that was a game of rotten tomato smoker fire rotten or fresh this has been an episode of polarized the pod oceans 11 1960 frank sanatra dean martin brandini the james and our lovely lovely guest christian urbina back at it once again for uh the long haul away from the bar this was a the bar this was a full episode i hope you guys have enjoyed our back and forth uh on this year podcast because we've enjoyed our time here i know i sure have i always do and uh i'm never

bored hanging out here with with you fine people and uh yeah christian if there's is there anything else you want to share before you wrap up uh no thank you for having me as a unicorn horn do you have a new year's resolution at all my my new so i mean my wife is eight months pregnant uh my my new year's resolution is to be a good dad no i love that fuck yeah dude james do you have a new year's resolution uh i want to spend a lot of time working on my home

and getting it to a place where i'm uh i have a nice sanctuary i want i want to have a nice sanctuary that i'm proud of and and put some work into that that has been lacking that i want to uh do a turnaround there oh yeah in my life the uh hunchback of notredom yes do you watch that movie i was like it is me sanctuary the heart of noto james i feel like it's more land before time than it is like hunchback of notredom

yeah my new year's resolution so i i i'm about to come up on my last one which is no taco bell for the year yeah so we gotta have a taco ball party in january and so this new year's uh resolution is zero uber eats delivery food nice dude oh yeah whole year wow whole year not doing any delivery food you got it well what are you gonna do with the extra seven thousand dollars you're gonna have i'm rolling in it you're gonna buy an island and like senpi gua litoka from infindy pool

well we're gonna take james out to some uh brazilian barbecue and before as james is gonna tell you to follow us on stuff but uh one thing to be said is coming into the new year we're gonna shut down the twitter that shit sucks that shit's bullshit we're gonna go on threads even though it's acts still fucking bullshit acts yeah acts boo uh we're gonna cut that shit out uh i'm gonna try to start record another kind of thing for the new year is record these episodes on twitch or at

least get them from from james and start putting them on tiktok so probably in the next like month or two into the new year uh we'll have a tiktok account and uh don't follow us on x follow us instead on threads and then tiktok to come yeah and speaking of which i've been throwing recordings on youtube and maybe we can post more stuff on there if uh if people are into it um so we have the youtube channel polarize pod uh as well as yeah we were streaming live on twitch.tv slash

polarize pod and you know you can catch the in between stuff which is us uh shooting the shit and maybe some of us hanging out beforehand uh with some behind the scenes stuff i was you know like watching like the oceans 11 video or something like that uh the behind the scenes of that and getting an opportunity to uh even voice your opinions that'll be featured in the app uh polarize the pod at gmail.com as well uh we have another podcast if you ever want to check it out

called prod pod about music producers uh maybe we'll record some more of that uh coming up one day and let us know if you like it yeah it's uh we got a few episodes out there very gordian motown we got Todd round in grand episode dip low and uh it's uh fun fun times uh talking about music and when we have the time we try to bring that stuff in here there's been just too much to talk about when you have good people like our our lovely guest christian and it's always fun to shoot the shit about

movies good and bad and anything in between and that's what polarize is all about baby and from the bar it's brandini and the rat christian the james and the forever gust and it's been a true honor and we'll see you next time bye bye hey