Mahogany

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Avatar way of water. What is our next movie? Is it the Wiz and then last dragon I think? Yeah, God, we're doing the Wiz next. That's crazy, dude. Polaris taking on the Wiz. That's big stuff. That is big shit. Not many people do, but we're doing it. Yeah, we're fucking big dogs now. Yeah. We're fucking here. We're we're whizzing it. We got a whiz out. I mean, we've always been dogs. Now we're big dogs. Yeah, we got

to get those shirts. Big dog, big dog shirts. Damn, I mean, those are back in the big. I we should start getting back in a big dogs. You and I together, we have probably have a box of big dog shirts perfect for a 12 year old boy. Oh my god. How old are we? We were but got a radio. I could go for another one. Oh, absolutely. Probably got a Raiders of

the last bark. Oh, the great. That's great. I last memory I have it from it was the this guy that I went to community college with in an anthropology class I took one semester. I felt like that either he wore that shirt like every day or that was like his Tuesday shirt when we had class together because I swear I sat behind like pretty close behind him and he was that guy in class that was like obnoxious to an ex to on some days of

the days it was it was fine, whatever. But he would just like talk and talk and talk and talk and go on to like about unrelated things and ask questions. You know, you should have an inquisitive mind, but be questions that are just kind of you could sense the whole vibe of the room just kind of like, you know, and I'd always just look at the like the big big dog symbol in the back of shirt. Man, he wears that shirt all the time.

That's the big guy. It was very generic one. It wasn't even one that had a joke. It was just big dog. And then the dog. Welcome to the podcast, everybody. You caught us talking about big dog clothing where I highly, highly recommend you check it out. I wonder if there's still still going on. This is such an interesting way to start the podcast. Yes. But should I start conventional? No, I mean, go for it. Yeah, we should do it. You do just do this.

You clicked on the episode and jumping into big dog clothing where and I'm doing a goog as we speak. I'm googling it. Big dog clothing 90s is the next auto fill. Big dog sports wear. Can you imagine? Oh, no, it's just like biking or something or doing some extreme sports with our dogs. The one that's on their front page is like one of their badass big dogs. And it's saying, you can't fix stupid, not even duct tape. Wow. That's kind of aggressive.

Okay, oh, wait. Okay, I was into some of the punny ones. Here we go. Yeah. This is polarized podcast. We're talking big dog clothing where to start off. We'll get into it here in a second. Rip it. I might be getting older, but I refuse to grow up. Okay, these are these are your old guy shirts, but I'm looking for punny ones. I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. Where are the funny ones? Yeah. P you that one was not good.

These are like cranky old grandpa. Oh my god. The men. Oh, some of these are fun. Works well with others when they leave me the blank alone. Okay. I'm not old. I'm age to perfection. Okay. Old guy shirts. Just do it tomorrow. Love that. I got a shirt that has that I got from Costa Rica with a sloth that says just do it tomorrow. So I'm all about that. As far as graphic teas go, if you go to t shirts and then go to the howl of fame, okay. Okay.

Oh, wow. It'll get you there. Look at this like classic logo. Yeah. We got the dog father. If you can't run. Okay. Let's go back and forth. I'm going to, if you can see my screen, I'm going to do this one. And then if you see one that you want to jump onto, uh, we'll do a couple and then we'll move on to mahogany, the movie. Uh, I see one here that says if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. Wow. Okay. Um, I, I mean, God, there's

not that many, unfortunately, cause I mean, yeah, I'm looking at it. The most like crossover IP stuff that I see here is we got South park and it's all the little guys, but they're dogs and then yeah, we got the dog father and it's a, it's a, well, you see what they said under South park. Oh my God. They fixed Kenny. Yes, of course. Right. Uh huh. Yeah. A dog father. And then we also got leashes. We don't need no stinkin leashes. My dad

would like that one. I think my dad would like that one. I know, but it is, uh, dad's love it, but man, is it insensitive. Yes. It is atrociously outdated and not chill anymore to wear. If you were to wear that, you're like, so you also voted for Trump. Some of these kind of have that vibe. Yeah. They're aggressively like, yeah, I have my own opinion. Yeah. And fuck you on top of it. Okay. Big log. The categories are pretty fun. Big dog

logo, big attitude, humor, drinking, hobby, parody, parody, parody. Cause I remember it like James bone once. Here we go. Signed masters of their domain. You got Elaine Bassett, like as it has these one human. What are some posmo creamer? They got George Cospaniel. Oh, there's the James bone. Double. Okay. Now you found it. Nice. Yeah. Uh huh. Halloween. We got captain big dog rum. Yo ho ho. Jurassic world. I like that. I mean, big bow cowski, big,

no big bow. Wow. Ski, big bow. Wow. Ski. The dog. Now we're getting good. Now we're good. I'm liking this. I love top dog because it's like it's top gun, but top dog is just such a clear, like, uh, you know, kind of saying that it just doesn't know. Yeah. Oh, the sweatiest is the soprano dogs. That's just soprano with dog attached. It's interesting seeing the doctor, the dog. Oh, there's dog ter evil, but it just says, throw me a fricking bone,

which is like literally what he says. It's not even the play on it. It's like, oh, yeah, the Rex files, agent mutter and Collie. Oh my God. I'm going to have to get the bones. Wow. What a time. Your fucking birthday, dude. The world is big enough. Double okay. Nine. The world is not enough. James bond, big dog. What a pull. The name's bone and James bone. Yes. Oh, I think this is might be the one I had tomorrow. Never bites. I think I might

have had this one. Ben James bone tomorrow. Never diets. Did you just say that? Sorry. No, no, no. I had the world is all the world. Oh, I had one of those. I remember always seeing them at the store and being like, fuck God, that would be that would represent my love for not only James bond, but dogs and animals. I love my doggies. James on it. Oh, yeah. And James, that's right. I almost forgot my name for you. It's almost like an encouragement

to fuck. It's like bone. That could be my poor name. Yes. Yeah. As well as my big dog name. Oh, God. Yeah. How funny is that? Soprano dogs one where just like sopran dogs. Is that what it says? No, it's it's soprano dogs, right? Oh, it is soprano dogs. Wow. Forget about it. That's all it is. Yeah. And first is forget about it. Wow. Look at that. The whole cast is there in dog form. I mean, it's you can just keep going with that idea. It's

a good idea. I love it. Makes sense. It's still going on. Even the basic. This basic logo is pretty dope. I think too, with dad core being a fashion that like you could talk one of these shirts into like like wide like legged pants and it being like, oh, yeah, that guy's just a hipster. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, these are fresh. I suppose these colors are kind of like pastel and fun. That logo is, you know, like, oh, yeah. Did you buy

it new or did you buy it from, you know, thrift store? Who knows? Because it could be something you got from the nineties and bucket hats. See, they just never left. They just stuck around and waited for the fashion to come back around. They're ahead of their time. That's all I'm saying. Speaking of ahead of their time, Gary, Gary, Bordy, Gary Bordy. This is the most crazy. You know, you know what? I'm rolling with it. I know. I'm going

to back off just for a second. Just really do a quick intro. I mean, we've already I was going to do. I promise I had to get my big dog out. I was going to get it. I was going to get James, put your big dog away. Come on. Oh, you're recording. Big dog is up too late. I'm a big dog now and deal with it. Yeah. And forget about it. But yes, I am sorry to derail so early on in my night. I'll I'll don't apologize. I love it. That's

the intro, baby. And I'm sticking to it. This is the polarized pod. I am the host, James. This is my fellow host, the great brand Dini as yes. Yes. Known to be called in this king as a fellow king in this polarized kingdom. We are coming to you. Not live. But if you were on it, well, yeah, sort of maybe. But we we talk about polarizing movies, movies that critics and audiences disagree on on Rotten Tomatoes and on Rotten Tomatoes is

broken up into two camps, audiences and the critics. The movies that we talk about are the ones that they disagree on either audiences love it, critics hate it or vice versa. We've done that includes a lot of interesting movies that we've done in the past. And yes, going for for a little bit now. And it's cool that that can include almost any genre because it's just about how people feel about it. And this one is mahogany. And we're doing

this because of Gary Bordy. He is. A prominent figure in pop culture, to say the least, and I just say the least, like one of the most influential people. Like it is an understatement to talk about how important he is in music. Yeah, in movies. The opposite. Yeah, I mean, this is this one is nigh almost invisible and hard, hard to find and track down. But it is rated on Rotten Tomatoes, a movie from 1975 when Rotten Tomatoes definitely wasn't

a thing. So it's fun to. This is more of the rare form of movie that has that has stopped by on the old polarized kingdom is the one that's pre Rotten Tomatoes existence, which I'm not sure exactly when when they came to be. But it's was it's really exciting to jump into a movie from 1975. We did one other Charles Bronson movie that was that was fun as well. And this one has a 30 percent by critics and a 76 percent by audiences. And

this is my first time hearing about it. And if I can just even drop a little hint at a plug at the beginning, we we mean we being me and Brandini, the royal we the royal we we and frequent guests of ours, El Blarje, have another podcast called The Prod Pod. We have just started and we are talking about music producers and Barry Gordy, Gary Bordy,

excuse me, is our next one that we are covering. So this was kind of a fun little mini series that we're kind of jumping into for these next three movies are going to be very Gary Bordy related. This first one is directed by the man himself and we will be doing two more coming up and I'll reveal later. You like that? Oh, I love a little tease. Oh, I'm loving the energy, man. I just I'm glad that we started off. We got the big dog out

of the way until we got the honestly I needed the big dog. OK, so something happened today leading up to this podcast is I I made cheeseburgers and I made they weren't like they weren't big ones, but I ate three of them and it felt like I got hit by a tranquilizer. I have just been like it was crazy. Like I I sat and I watched for some reason I started watching how I met your father. It's like I don't know if it's Hillary Duff is on Hillary Duff is

in it. Yeah, I don't know if it's very good, but for some reason it's pretty fucking watchable. But man, I have I house these three burgers and I seriously have you didn't do any like doubles you just like three three. Yeah, because I got three singles and very straightforward. Like I just thought going into it like I could do three because they're like not very big,

whatever. But man, after the third one, I blew me away how tired I got after that. I was like I felt like they had heroin in them or something because I just came out of it. I was like, oh man, I had to like I've been like Diana Ross from Lady Sings the Blues. I'm just like shaking a little bit now. But good Lord, dude, I just I haven't felt like that after a meal in a minute. And congratulations. Were they tasty? I mean, they were so oh,

they were so tasty because I did. I sauteed some onions up with some leap leap parents Worcestershire sauce and put that on top. And then I had some some classic singles. Yes, which is just I think a necessity for the perfect choice for for a burger or a breakfast Sammy. Oh, God, my or just a fried egg in general. Just just pop that fucker. But yeah,

man, I don't podcast. It's OK. OK. Are any of these fuckers? Yeah. So I'm I'm glad we kind of just started off on a more like lighter note and something a little off kilter because good Lord, was I just like I can't believe how tired I was, but I'm excited to talk about this movie. I'm excited to talk about Jerry Snorty. I think it is this is such a curio and yeah, pumped. Did you have a dream of being a master chef in in Rome?

Yeah, with a with a with a Michelin star restaurant and a bunch of critics coming to I was trying to find a parallel to the opening this movie, but that was kind of yeah. So I that was rough. I did, though I did have a I had a whole envisioning of me as a established master chef where everybody is just you know, I made food and then people just started clapping their asses off. Just

stop for like 20 minutes, 20 minutes. It's like the it's really it looked like in the crowd of this, you know, this presentation of my meal, that this is the greatest meal that anybody in the place had ever seen or entire life to the point where I got standing ovation that lasted, I think, 15 minutes. It would put some of these movies at the Venice Film Festival to shame is the kind of shit you know, and that's how I felt about the

opening of this movie, which just man already so fucking confusing, right? Cool. Some of the some of the better like cinematography in the whole film is this one one shot or like not one shot, but this one sequence that just kind of comes out of the blue. But the floating figures as it open opens up on is like one of the coolest things artistically is done in the movie, I feel like. And but it's just yeah, just it throws you into some

cold water. Absolutely. And it's so fucking jarring to well, first off, it's it does this thing that is just such a funny thing that happens sometimes in movies where like Kabuki finale. That's what it's. Yeah, right. You know, which the Kabuki finale movie starts and you're just kind of like, what? What? You're like woken up from like a three cheeseburger

nap and you're like, whoa, Kabuki finale. It reminded me of Diamonds Are Forever when Shady Ecorns does his like the bit we get of him doing a stand up is like two minutes of the end of his act. But it kind of presented like it's full of the whole thing. I know what you're talking about. But yeah. And so you just you're like dropped into it where

it's like the end of a thing. But it's so weird that it doesn't show you the beginning instead because it just creates this very like frantic energy of like and it's over. And it just started and you're like, oh, fuck. OK. I mean, I guess the show was good because everybody's losing their fucking mind right now. But like this Kabuki ending, I have no idea. And then it threes frames on it that looks like dog shit. So that was just a whole

way to start this movie. Unintelligible sort of. And I'm going to say this early is sound mixing and whether it's. A direction of like telling people how long and loud to clap or how you mix it within the scene later on in post or whatever it is. It was just almost maddening and how prolonged that went on for where it did seem surreal and dreamlike, I guess. I guess. Right. And then it doesn't do you a lot of favors because it is kind

of just like a quick foggy transition. It's not even there's not a music cue. It doesn't have to be that stereotypical, but it's just kind of like a very soft wipe. And then it goes on to like her real life. But for a second, you're just kind of like, wait, what is that? Did that happen? And what's what's going on? Oh, totally. And because I was thrown that I was like, oh, this is why. Because I didn't there's not really anything. I mean, it makes

sense in hindsight. But when I first saw it, I was like, oh, wait a minute. Because I was reeling from that being like, why did we just go from her being a standing ovation to her then being working in this thing and then struggling? And I was like, I just I didn't realize that it was a dream. But it is so funny. Then once I realized that that was the case, because there's a conversation that like, I think her manager, essentially, it

was so funny. I like was seriously writing notes about it, because after the Kabuki ending, she comes off stage and then her manager comes up like, Tracy, you've gotten everything like literally says, yeah, you have gotten everything you've wanted. You've done it. You're the best fashion to Paris and London and Rome. They're all on the phone right now. Calling about the Kabuki finale. Freeze frame. Just like the ending of a movie, which it turns

out to also be. Yes. But it's weird to jump in like that. And then, you know, I we mentioned that it's hard to find this movie. So both of us found it on YouTube for free on just like a channel. And it was kind of cut out only like very like I think like the theme song they cut out because they just didn't want to get flagged for anything. But it was jarring to say the least. That's no fault of their own. But it cuts from that to like

silence silence. Yes. You know, there's nothing against the movie, but it was just an experience. Yeah. Totally. Because we can't there's a lot of stuff like that that happens, especially when it comes to the music in this, which is a real bummer. We'll try. It's hard not to hold it a little bit against it, because I'm sure that's probably the most redeeming qualities of it. And because it was free on YouTube, they just completely cut it out at

times where it was. Yeah. How jarring is that that we go into Kabuki ending to freeze frame to silence? Yeah. I guess when you think about it, it's cool that there is a an attached theme song that we throughout the movie, at least we're purviewed to the motif, like, way it's stitched through everything. Like when I'm like the I'm trying to think what kind of music that would that would be. It's almost like classical or something like that.

The the the composition of it. But then it's yeah, with the and raw singing on top. Soulful as well. But what do you think of Diana Ross in an acting performance? Are you familiar with her acting at all? Because I'm not familiar with very gordy movies or Diana Ross acting like I love her music, you know? Yeah, I mean, I I had not seen a movie. I think she might have been in Blues Brothers, if I'm not mistaken. But I don't really remember her performance

too much. But yeah, like I was not familiar with especially this era, because this is like she is arguably the biggest singer on the planet. Like, at least like close to I want to say, right? You know, she saw and then she did the Billie Holiday movie earlier and she's with Gary Schnorr Schnorr lacks. Yeah, Gary, Gary, Gary and her dirty. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What? Yeah. What? Herty gritty, bitch. No, I so I wasn't familiar

with her acting. Sorry. Yeah, I don't think I said what I meant. But like he is. Yeah, I was like, she's good. It's like Diana Ross is Billie Holiday in that movie was I was going to say, it's like it's like Diana Ross is and it's kind of it's predicated on and I'm sure that's a snary Schnurdy's. We're never going to say Barry Gordy. Sorry. His doing a lot to is propping her up being in a relationship and everything and having that

be a collaboration in making something as well. But you have some context as far as like the making of this movie and why Larry Larry Schnurdy is directing this. Yeah. OK. So with Lady Sings the Blues, that was a pretty well received movie because Diana Ross's performance as Billie Holiday being so good and being so like and that's like Barry Gordy presents. It says right at the present. Yes. So it's very much producer role in that. Right. But

not a director. Yeah. Right. Absolutely. And we'll talk about that if you want to listen more about that, we'll listen to prod pod. But yeah. So my understanding is, is like, OK, so Lady Sings the Blues was well received because of Diana Ross performance. Also, again, she's like, it can't be like understated enough. She's like the biggest fucking pop star on

the planet. Like everybody knows who she is. So like her being in a movie just makes sense because people will just go see it because like Diana Ross is like going to be singing in it and she's acting in it. And then for them to like off the like out of the gate have a like life spanning performance for Billie Holiday, which she is very like honors it well. People like it. Also, too committed performance. Yeah. It's like a very committed

or biopic and you have to you have to commit. You have to really dig in. Absolutely. Yeah, it's not. Yeah, it isn't so much about. Yeah, exactly. So and then also to something that I was getting a sense of is that it was really great for people to see an on screen romance where the two leads were black as well. And like the chemistry between Billie Dee and

Lady Sings the Blues and kind of this. I mean, we'll talk about it more like that was also a thing is people were like, oh, I'm really loving this, you know, romance that's happening on screen by these two black actors. This is amazing. We want more of this. So that's why there is such a like one after the next is two movies where Billie Dee's in it and is the love interest to Diana Ross because it just the first outing was well received.

People loved it. They're like, oh, Billie, so hot. He's doing great. The chemistry on screen is awesome. Let's do this again. And then so you have mahogany, right? That comes out. And originally, it wasn't a snary, dirty as the director. It was Terry Richardson, this like more. An actual director, I guess I'll just say that I can't really speak too much to like how great his other stuff is because he's done some things, but it's nothing

that I've really seen. And yeah, so there was this article that I share with you that was talking about the production of it like a couple of weeks into the shooting of it, they were doing the scenes where Billie Dee is canvassing or like doing the like kind of being rallying people at a job site. And there was like a kid or a teenager that just like shouted out like people in the streets don't talk like this and made like a clear jab at

the dialogue because he overheard the scene and all the talking parts and whatever. And Barry Gordy just immediately was struck by it and then like internalized it and made a huge decision to fire Terry Richardson and be like, I'm from the streets. I get this. I'm going to just do this. And yeah, it really is not. It wasn't the right move that I think we could safely say because this a lot of the direction in this is just so amateurish.

Right. I think you've said that to me before the pod recording of like, there's some big swings, but yeah, there's a real like lack of understanding of how that's palatable to the audience. I feel like and that goes from sound mixing to how you set up a set up a scene and bring it to fruition and going through the beats of whatever story you may have, which this one, as we saw in the trailer is a real rags to riches story. It's like very

stereotypical in its storytelling. And to hear that the background of him becoming the director speaks to what I imagine he was, he is like as a producer is hands on in a way where if things aren't going the way that he envisions it, he has the vision. He has what is in his mind is going to be a hit or be popular and he's been very successful in

the past. And so I'm sure at a certain point where he's just kind of has to take over if things aren't going the way that he wants it to, but that also tells me yeah, the fault as well of a over eager over micromanaging producer that maybe isn't trusting enough

in somebody else sometimes to do a good enough job. But I and also like if what he wanted actually followed through, I'm not sure if I'm the person to judge if it's like more, if it's accurate, you know, and I just think that's the dialogue is clunky as well, you know, is the thing. And so, which is not him, right? I mean, I guess that's what you're saying. That's like one of the reasons why he wanted to take over is to kind of have

more more accuracy and truth in that regard. And to me, some of the dialogue was a little bit more stilted and clunky and strangely philosophical and in ways that didn't fully like make sense sometimes. Well, you know, in the Anthony Perkins, which we should definitely talk about as well as like a big, big part of a lot of those lines. But you talked about Billy Dee Williams. I mean, the man is in his prime and he's like in his prime wearing

turtlenecks and just oozing charisma. And I think the chemistry between him and Diana Ross makes complete sense why you would want to build a movie around that because so many other things can fall into place with those two at the helm and Barry Gordy that snary to nerdy and all the all the pieces are in place. But then to also see yes steamed kind

of I'm not sure what Anthony Perkins has been doing. I'm not super familiar with like his career beyond psycho, but to see him popping up in this and really, really given a performance like making a meal out of my God, this he's so fascinating to watch. I mean, it's oh yeah, big choices. And he was and he was allowed to make I mean, I mean, you're bringing him on. I guess he's going to make make choices, but you're allowing him to to make those big

swings as well. Yeah. Oh, and like meditate on that guy. I know he's I know. And then we watched the telescope scene just a second ago, we were reviewing a little bit and I was almost almost tempted with this YouTube situation, just do a whole commentary. But there is a scene of women modeling with a telescope one after the other. And this is the introduction to Anthony Perkins. We should get into the plot a little bit too. But we're

just on the on the percolator right now. And he's just barking orders one after the other and like sucking your gut, like open your mouth a little bit more close it. And then after each one, say shit, say shit, say shit. And then they would say shit and smile. And it was just such a an abrasive way to introduce a character. I mean, it's definitely purposeful in its ability to not show the face of him for a bit and just hear his voice and then

just that close up of his face right at the end when he's like, not happy. But it doesn't it's not really as satisfying as I feel like the as they maybe the director, Harry Gertie was wanting it to be in its effect. But there's swings and there's artistic things like that edit to the quick close up of his face that like, Oh, I get what you're trying to do. But he wears these glasses. He's a little bit older. He's got some some grays. He's

he's just got such an intense sort of personality and he kind of is a sociopath. You find you gradually come to find out. I mean, you kind of know right off the bat, right? Just saying, I mean, once he says all the inanimate objects, shit, man. Oh, my God, because that's also to the like the name of this movie, Mahogany is given to Diana Ross by Anthony Perkins because all of his favorite models he gives inanimate object names to. Yeah, because I can't remember

why room dedicated to them. Yeah, which is it's a red is a room here. It's a red flag. Be like, it's a whole red flag room. Like this is my red flags. Look at these. Well, and he's yeah, because he's just a walking red flag because yeah, he already right off from jump preets like preets the women like their objects is mean to them. He's also just so like he has this like flamboyant bisexual like I'm going to fucking do what I want to

fucking take photos attitude about shit. And it's a little like you like kind of like an

air anarchist a little bit or kind of a little bit. Yeah, right. The system a bit but then also like, it's like part of the system and it's like facilitating a lot of these problems and is really like a real narcissist like real sociopath like his his treatment of the models and that the whole all the speech about yeah, everyone you're an inanimate object and I give all my inanimate objects names and but also like you don't matter and how

he treats her is toxic and he does a lot of gaslighting. Yeah, it's crazy. Right. I mean, it's just Yeah, that's the thing about this movie like is a lot of this stuff in here is really fucking toxic because I would argue to that the relationship between also in this between Billy Dee and Diana Ross is kind of fucking toxic. Like I came out of like there

were situations from jump right is she's she's also kind of toxic with them right? Because the meeting of the they're like meet cute is Diana Ross is coming back from talking to her like Taylor on to whatever because she's got these you know, she's got a project because I think she's she's either working for a fashion house or she's going in fashion school. I can't exactly that was rough to wrap my head around to you like how she she

got a job at like this. Was it like a retail store as a department store which is where the fat said she was like a secretary or something and then but she was doing like merchandising and shit on the and setting up mannequins and stuff like that I feel like and it was

that was kind of confusing with I guess when she's with her aunt right? Like what I think I think so is that is that like a job is that is that the school I was trying to figure that out because that seemed like another job and she was like trying to do designing under I think that is the truth is that she is in design and fashion school and then that's what she went to her on to get designed but then she also has to make money her job is

an assistant to a like department store art director almost like art I'm sure there's another term for but like somebody who's job is is to like what are what's being put on the models what is being stocked in the store you know like that's why she was there during the the like catalog shoot or whatever Anthony Perkins was I mean because who the fuck was that for where it was a fashion show that had telescopes like what I just put your finger

in the put your put your finger in the lens yeah grab it grab it yeah grab it grab it grab it yeah say shit was there also I maybe I'm conflating these movies because this like does seem like a fever dream to me but was there also like a robot fashion show like shoot as well robot fashion shoot I don't remember that okay I feel like there was a shoot where there was like robots like I wonder if I came out with her outfit that one where

like she's yeah yes yeah where she's a part of it so it was like because I want to say there was a moment there's like the way that the story progresses is she is assistant Anthony Perkins like discovers her because she's striking because Diana Ross is very striking and then he like tells her to come back almost or like calls her and then there's another shoot he's doing that then she's actually a part of and then she gets fired right and then the boss

wearing her own fingers and then he just starts like taking pictures of her and like in the back of the store and and the boss is like what's going on you can't take pictures and then there's like a conflict of interest or something she in her mind and so she like hands her and then Anthony Perkins is just tells her like move to Rome you're my new muse yeah I shouldn't even say muse my new play thing like my new object my own new little

like item is that too right that is so twisted is so twisted that is fundamentally a problem in this movie too is that I don't get the sense that he that she is really inspiring him it just seems like okay now she's in the mix for him right like okay now she's part of like stable of girls that he's calls on to model for whatever and I don't get a sense that he is really benefiting a lot from her being involved and then it's always so weird

because like she's modeling but her real goal is to not be a model it's to be a fashion designer yeah and then they're in the meantime yeah right and it always like there's this weird thing that happens where she's trying to get her clothes into these shoots exposure Brandon I want exposure exposure and there's a part of me where I'm like yeah like no this is not what this is about Diana or Tracy or name in this it's like this is a shoot for

mahogany mahogany for god it I could I was like dying laughing when one of the billboards she ends up becoming a part of she looks like fit in that was like so frustrating wet and like her hair is all fucked up that kind of I don't know this is maybe being too deep about it but that kind of like reminding me of like Barry Gordy's like directing style of like right I'm gonna subvert things and do it a little differently do it my own way

instead of like listening to the tried and true I don't know about this other guy who's gonna be a director but this guy who's a director and listen to him about what a movie should be I'm gonna do it myself and do it this kind of interesting cool way and then it comes out like not as palatable as a movie because that was so frustrating and then like you see that you see the other pictures or whatever and like all those are nice and she's her

hair is up and everything and the outfit is is not drenched in like shopping when she looks happy and but can we talk about like we're just jumping around I'm fine with it but can we talk about right before that happens is it was what they're doing is they were just running in the middle of the road and she is jumping on random cars and taking pictures on top of them she's like an influencer so that is doing like a new a new new trend a

new a new viral craze Brandon I sound so old okay so that's actually an homage they're planking to a supreme's music video where they are cool walking in the streets and it really looks like they're actually walking in there because there's even a part of the music video where like a concern Britain I think and like what is a British police officer can't be I don't remember a Bobby Bobby like it's like like getting trying to move them

out of the street and there's this music video where they're just like singing and like dancing in the street in like a middle of a fucking in the city and they're like yeah it's like you're not allowed to do that and so that was an homage to that but it's just it there's a whole like photo montage of them like just gorilla photo shoots around the city and just like it looks like just the most torrid love affair with a camera being being there like

it's it's like almost like voyeuristic and or something in his mind like why he enjoys it like just why he's so fascinated with an area and then just how he takes pictures too is just like so fat and then like he does it in moments when and I think that's a kind of pretty great acting choice by him and I'm and maybe it's the directing too but it just seems like an Anthony Perkins things where yeah in every scene even ones where he's probably

doesn't need to be taking pictures he's just like yeah and they're in the middle of a conversation and he's still just like taking pictures all these weird candid ones to the point where I mean it consumes him to his death it reminded me too of the awesome powers where he's taking pictures and it's just like he's so like frenetic about it chaotic he's just like give it you know like really like oh and it's to be about tiktok about it just no we need more I know

we'll do something crazy well I'll I'll take the video and you hold that you hold the steering wheel but yeah there's that and I and I think my criticism to go back I think this is kind of what you're touching on as well was like or maybe not but my one of my criticisms about near this portion of the movie was so she's she's with Billy Dee they're both kind of like individuals at this point in their lives they're doing their own thing they're trying

to make this relationship work it seems like she's like compromised a little bit more in sacrifice some of her goals it seems like to try to be there for him during this campaign a little bit and then there's just this one night like this one night where like he's asking her and you just don't know enough about it to know the context about how you should really feel if you should be on someone's side or it or and how you should judge a situation

for yourself but it just kind of happens where she's like you can tell she's been working for him for the day and then he's like oh you're gonna come to the dinner later and she's like no I gotta work on this thing this I have like a show in a week or something like that for for my for my own stuff I gotta work on and he's like oh I really want to come visit and there's like this little tiff and then she's like you know what like fuck

you I'm going to Rome because Anthony Perkins like called like told her told me that like I'm I'm welcome to just come out there or whatever and it just happened so quickly and I and I have no way of knowing how to feel about it oh yeah and that's frustrating in a storytelling perspective in a movie because I just I want to know how to feel and there's other like moralistic things that happen later on that feel like they should be clear to

and that makes it even more gobbledygook and kind of gray area confusing when it veers kind of near oh what you know we've done one Tyler Perry movie as well but like like some of the morality stuff that happens later kind of reminded me of that anyway it totally oh it totally does no and that's that's I'm glad yeah that's what I was getting at because that's the crux of my issues with this movie because it is trying to be borderline feminist

in her her story her career being important because she's the fucking main like actor she's the lead of this movie and it should be about her but since it seems like it's just since it's also being told from Barry's I'm sorry Larry Geordie's perspective is me is so inept at being able to like elegantly or just understand how to present the relationship in like what you're saying like maybe providing more context as to why things are important

to each one so that there's more of this like it's more interesting as to why it somebody not showing up to a thing is crucial or why it matters to the other person and it just there's no build up to it at all it's like you're you know zero where there's like you there's any ammunition absolutely right because they they aren't even really that together and then like what you're saying is is then it kind of explodes like how dare you tell

me to not go live my dream and to and then Billy Dee though in the tech like actual text is like what you're doing is not as important as my shit and he says that to her and then so I'm like yeah I'm like oh fuck okay well fuck you Billy Dee like she should go do this because again she's being provided an opportunity that's going to be great for her career she should take that this isn't a very serious relationship which is then to your point and

to the and to the fault of this movie is like you did a bad job leading up to that point because really it just seems like well they've hung out like a handful of times they slept together once they but they've only hung out a handful of times so for you to then get upset and to make somebody want it like for you to put that on somebody of like well you're not doing this for me therefore like you don't respect me you don't love me and all of that

it's so undeserving because it's like well no she doesn't owe you really anything and it's really fucking awful for you to say those things and to think that you're like like what you're doing matters more than hers like this isn't that you're not at that point in the relationship where you've put so much equity and stake into each other that now we're at a divergent point where okay now this is like I can't live without you and

I need to do this and I need and then the other person I need to do that and those are like going opposite directions it's like no you just seem like honestly a toxic relationship where in the first month you're hanging out with somebody you're like telling them what they can and cannot do you know what I mean and that's in like that's that's okay if you make it interest like I don't want a perfect relationship I don't I don't I don't I don't

want to watch like something that's perfectly you know they figured everything out but for it for nothing to really be fleshed out it seems it's like touched on and then there's like a minor blow up and then she's gone and then the movie shifts so hard into a different gear in the room stuff and then it tries to come back to Billy Dee in little increments which feel really rough and like rough because he's not having a good time we're not having

as well like you know the way it's partitioned out it doesn't feel the pacing doesn't feel proper having this back and forth between Chicago and Rome which is a lot that's just a lot to put together and in your movie but they are I mean and then and yeah like I he's doing a shitty thing and I want a follow-up more so because when she does go to Rome and then when he ran he just shows up at her doorstep things kind of just continue on and then he

has he has the conflict with Anthony Perkins and then there's another conflict that gun sequence which just isn't real yeah we definitely have to talk about that and then we also have to talk about Diana Ross's freak out on him which also isn't fully earned either or it's just such a quick shift so it's kind of like a big shift for her personality and character in the latter half of the movie that's hard to be on board for as well continue to continue

to root for her but I'm yeah I am I am jumping kind of kind of all around you want to get into like the the Rome stuff no I just want to say like it's so funny to hear your energy about this because I feel very similarly that the way that the movie is structured what it gives you like we're trying to make a meal out of something that isn't there like we're trying to add color add to try to add purpose and it's just so difficult to talk about this

movie in like oh here let's hone in on this quality of the movie or this aspect of the relationship being presented because it's not presented well at all so then it just like it leaves you reeling a little bit like I can tell with you and I feel the same as is like you're like ah I like I get what you're doing but you're not doing it and so now we're talking about it and it's just like hard to be like have a good like a strong point of

view or say something like a like a real like critique about something because there's not anything there that's like really has of substance that's worth talking about it's just so crazy how some dramatic moments but they're the buildup isn't there for them to tell you I want to earn it or it doesn't feel you don't feel the weight of it as much but the whole the whole love affair with Anthony Perkins is pretty wild and I think I that I guess

that's where she is transforming into the like pat power career or like she she wants the exposure and she wants she's starting to put herself out there more she put on one of her own outfits for one of the fashion shows in which Anthony Perkins is a real dick bag and everyone is kind of a flutter and then they're looking for a bid and he bids a very low amount and then we get this other character in this movie which I another is

another part that I'm just kind of late game don't I don't really know how to feel about him either especially the way that it ends with intense and intentions I don't know just aren't revealed in a way that makes sense to me he just seems like a real Deus ex machina or just this kind of thing that is needed for the plot to go in another direction but he he loves it he loves her he you know he bets a lot and then he you know supports her

later on but we should talk about so Billy Dee and then Billy Dee shows up yeah so let's talk about that shows up at the door and then things are things are kind of cool again because she's on the quits with me because well and this is what's frustrating you said I mean you said feminist and whatever whatever it is it is but I think what's frustrating with me is there's just always a point in this movie where she's with a man all the way up

until the very end and she like needs a man to like front her and what and what she's doing as much as she says she wants to be on her own everything the movie and the in the men around her are reminding her that she she can do it without them a lot in a lot of senses and that was something that was it just is what it is about the movie and I don't need a feminist message like you know shoved up my ass or anything like that

but it's just no it's just frustrating when this this guy this I have this is a frustrating character for me this benefactor guys just kind of comes in out of nowhere and fronts her and just is it makes it able for her to jump from Billy from Anthony Perkins front to Billy Dee to him but we're on the Billy Dee I'm these are these are the hosts of men that she's just hop skipping and jumping around she's pissing Anthony Perkins for doing the

low ball Billy Dee shows up and he's weirded out by European people I know it's it's it's so I mean but would you would you eat max or potato salad pie or whatever that fuck that was out of some guy's hand I know right lady yeah this like trans person I think because yeah yeah yeah I think because then Billy Dee makes the fucking gross ass comment about like whoever you are I don't want to eat out of your hands thank you very much no right

that's what it's see that's the thing I know you took it a different direction I really wish you just honed in on the right wouldn't that have been that's the weird thing here that's the weird thing it's not the fact that that person is fabulous yeah or whatever it's like no they're trying to like a random person is feeding you stuff that they grabbed with their hands off a plate into your mouth it's like of course that's disgusting but no you're

focusing on the fact that it's like they're a finger sexual I'm sorry yeah and it's like you yeah what he says he's like we need yeah I just wish this party had a name tag so I can know oh yeah or whatever that was that was the weirdest conversation that made no sense between him and Anthony Perkins because he's like I wish people have labels which is yeah pretty you know and and then Anthony Perkins what is he's like wolf he's like oh

you know like at the morgue you know he's like well if you think we're all cadavers here and he starts going to speak ill of the dead he starts doing all these like weird like repartee and like double metaphors that don't actually fall add up it's good like what is this dialogue this is so so strange on paper well first off I just want to talk about how fucking toxic it is and this is and I've seen this happen for some people when like when

you're like in in you're visiting somebody in their element right which is not necessarily your element right this is them thriving in their own space and that can be outside of yours you know that's what how relationships should be though it's like you can be you can be dominant you can be comfortable in your own spaces and then you know you come together in your personal time whatever and that's your relationship but it's just so

fucking toxic when he he flies to Rome and then makes a to do about like isn't it great that I made this effort to get here and then the whole time just bitches and moans about everything he's like I'm not used to this and this doesn't complain about the things you should be complaining about we just talked about the finger potato pie whatever but then he doesn't actually like talk about this fight that he has with with percolator right he

never brings it up because that's like a man thing right he's like I don't want to talk about how this man got one over on me or is bugging me or whatever right but every which way though he's like just like just overall feel uncomfortable and would rather not be here he feels uncomfortable it's always like oh I'm not helping she's not on my side about the like anything so exactly like I'm from the I'm from you know I'm from Chicago or

whatever yeah from Chicago and this is not how we do things and then it's just a series of them going out to dinner doing the clothing stuff just being around each other and he's always just like this isn't my world I don't understand it you know this it's like it's so and to the point too which is the like like kind of the crux of the toxicity of it is like it then getting frustrated with her that she likes this like I don't like it and

now I'm frustrated that you don't feel the same way that I do and it's just insanely fucking toxic and again like I can't like I this movie frustrates me so fucking much because of how it ends to like we can continue to obviously talk about the movie but just to like briefly like hone in on like talking about the scenes yeah but like what's so fucking wrong with this movie is you know again how much he is he is willing to let Billy Dee

in her life and how every which way it comes off like he just wants her to do what he thinks is right he is only okay when he feels comfortable and then to for it to culminate and to end the way that it does even though it's like the movie's telling you like oh this is wonderful they're like you know that you're whatever your man's gonna come back to you yada yada yada it's like oh but then is she just giving up on her dreams because that's what it's

ends up being like to me is like oh shit romantic aspect of this movie wasn't the whole through line like I mean it was it was her as a person and what she wanted and she didn't just want to be with a man you know I guess yeah to your point as well and what I was saying earlier is just kind of frustrating where it's like she didn't need any three of those guys you know and they they they each one of them had their place in her life at different times

but then right at the end yeah she she goes right back home is what she wants to do and that's what his point to her in the beginning of their relationship was and in a way it is kind of like satisfying what Billy Dee Williams character wanted for her the whole time and saying yes that's what is right for her and what should happen is she should have just stayed home the whole time and worked on the like activism and being in politics

because that's the only way to to get things done or whatever and Billy Dee Williams mind but it is inconclusive as far as what her dream wants to be because she goes through a fucking lot so so we get to this so we do this fight which is just one of the better scenes simply I think because of the performances yeah for sure you could you know you can shoot it in a number of ways and in a room and everything but when you have Anthony Perkins body language

and and and fate what he does with his face and how he was handling a prop the gun and then Billy Dee Williams physical strength and sort of reacting his ability to react to what Perkins is putting out because like and I'm I'm making faces to just watching the movie just kind of like oh this is oh yeah this is weird and this is gonna he just brings him into a room full of guns and just starts what you know as you do as you do you

got her into a room full of his past models with one of them stabbed to shit and like slaps and like slapped oh yeah darts and he like slapped her and then he said a funny line about that too and I am not a ridden oh did you I wish I read it wrote it down but something about like maturity like we grow just because you like grow older doesn't mean you sure or something to that effect no you're only young once you can be immature

forever there it is bad a bang bad a boom there's a lot there's a lot I'll say some I'm like whatever in my notes maybe later I have some some just like lines that were dropped that are just that are interesting but this this scene is a has a buildup the dialogue is executed well there's a chemistry between them two that is palpable in terms of of of the contrast and how it ends with the gun not being loaded and the tension leading

up to that and the release and then the fallout is is handled well and one of the better better sequences if not you know the best one of the better sequences of the movie you imagine if the gun went off and Anthony Perkins died and Billy D killed him I was like I was on the edge of my seat right because I got on that way too it totally could have gone that way yeah it could have but man what a different movie this would have been if it was like

the back half of it was this whole like having to deal with a dead Billy D and we should definitely talk about how he actually dies next because it does happen he does yeah but yeah it could have been Billy D but yes and then he and he amscrased oh no we should talk about the fight at least at least touch on because Diana Ross is on a good one and she's at the point I don't this movie the very rags to riches and I feel like my context for that

in a lot of ways is like a Scorsese movie is like a good fellas or or whatnot in terms of rags to riches and this is kind of like okay he's like the the coked out power crazed leotards you know whatever is pissed off or it's like that point in the movie where it's they've gone too far and it's not gonna be fun anymore it's like the crescendo is hit and now it's like darkness it's like the 80s once the 80s hit in oh and boogie nights and

boogie nights yeah yeah the New Year's yeah and William H Macy takes his takes his weight leave yeah but it doesn't and that's and that's another criticism in the movies it doesn't resonate her persona Billy Dee just leaves Anthony Perkins dies and then she's just got to deal with the benefactor at which point she just was like fuck this I'm over right that's how the movie goes and then like that's just that's just frustrating when she she

finds at that point in the movie later on the the strife and something to fight against and the ability and resources to to do things at least in a at least in some capacity and you're just like now I want to go home which is like it's just it's undercut so much where you're like oh it isn't so much about her learning something like needing to internalize what's happening to then overcome it and be a different person it's just so plotting and

of like well I have to leave because of this situation you know what I mean it's not yeah there's not a necessarily defeat defeatism yeah there's not a lot of internalization or any character work it's just strictly plot it's like well Anthony Perkins is dead this benefactor that whole thing too man I I'm trying to wrap my mind around that because it was so weird about like big time you know him wanting her to fuck him but then like no I

don't know it was so confusing man because that just was not clear enough of like if he was nefarious or if he was if he was looking for something or if he just I guess he just want to be sugar daddy but then even even then he's the one that that gets mad at her for being an asshole when it's it's like man what am I rooting for what am I rooting for in this movie this this character that I don't give a fuck about just told them the main

character to stop being a fucking dick but okay so she finds ability he leaves and then we got to do this this car wreck I almost want to share my screen and hear Anthony Perkins scream one more time if I if I can bring it up but can you talk about how do you feel about a photo shoot and on the highway to hell oh man what a shooting of that it's so funny because it's obviously on a soundstage when they're in the car and yeah it's just

it's it's so weird dude it's just a lot of uncomfortable shits going on where yeah this guy's been the psychopath the whole time so it makes sense like this scene do you think the scene works I in or in this movie or maybe in a different way like just in general definitely definitely a different movie but also like a crazy sociopath photographer that is like suicide suicidal and yeah like there's this there's some scenes in here that I feel like

Tarantino will be like well there's this movie called mahogany that you really you should really check out and there's I just want and he takes notes from it I just want to say that on your recommended there was a bit about how Trump has been indicted but they they put asterisks on Trump like we don't know that that's gonna be oh yeah well this is a little sneak peek into my youtube algorithm is occasionally I will throw on Colbert's

monologue is a nice little like snippet of news where he makes jokes and he has done this thing I'm not sure how long it has been I think it's since he doesn't say Trump anymore this is the former president ever since Trump has no longer been president Stephen Colbert has not said his name really because he's only called him the former president and anytime you see on youtube they also bleep out his name are you kidding me like they do hold

them more like isn't that it's such a such a stance it's such a stance and I it's also absolutely fun cause it also draws more attention to it in the way absolutely yeah because immediately I was like I know exactly what that word is but it is like a former president like it is kind of like a day but yeah whatever so anyways let's get back into big dog you wanna go back to the big dog?

Dude I would love to get back to big dog now anybody listening can understand why we want to start this off as big dog dog because this movie is fucking batshit crazy it is also weird and kind of gross and it's like morals and oh okay speaking of which let's watch this movie yeah all right this is a little commentary portion it's the soundstage yeah definitely the lighting is different on yeah because there's nothing really even clear

in the background it's just oh god oh now it's blue okay I gotta get it one more time one more time what was did the enemy final words? Don't mess up the car!

Yeah and honestly this movie I'm sorry I don't think I like who has seen this movie yeah in this movie but yeah who is again it's on YouTube if you ever want to check it out if you ever want to check it out it's free but yeah what was happening there is they were on a freeway and yeah leading up to that Anthony Perkins was trying to make a point to her like really digging at her all the way of being like you're she's hung over

at a photo shoot is essentially right like you're he's like having yeah I don't know kind of like just forcing the camera on her being like yeah this right isn't the vibe of like you're I'm taking like you're better when you're like I don't know maybe you subscribe and well no I was going a little too hard with the fairy snorty thing earlier about the throwing her in the in the fountain but it is that sort of thing of like look at all

the these great pictures that I can take but oh anyone could take a great picture what if I did it differently and threw in the fountain and did it that way and it's it's just that sort of like yeah like anarchistic sort of like fuck it all let's try let's try something like the only way to make our is to make other things like make people I don't know like and either involve the other people or make I was gonna say make people people suffer in

some way because that's essentially what's happening in this scene maybe not with every everything that he's doing but he's just like intense and like bastardized Andy Warhol sort of way I don't fucking know like trying to he's like has this whole persona to his life as well and he seems to have like his his parties and his his lifestyle about who he is that is even bigger than photography and he's trying to like just put out a status

to the to the world and be like and be a god yeah right everybody is an object like an object which is I mean that's from like the beginning of this movie right is that that whole thing about the movies even called that which is just again it is just such a fucked up sensibility of this movie like it isn't endearing and there isn't a payoff to her to know where that comes right right like I said the movie is named mahogany which is

the name she's given by a white sociopath who gives all women object names and that's like the other one was like crystal or something like that yeah could you for the sake of this conversation could you play a little bit of what he was really like about it like leading up to the them driving I just I like what do you what they were talking about before yeah yeah sure I mean this is what's great about this movie is yeah it is on YouTube

we can we can pull it up and the commentary will be coming soon right there yeah it's too far oh yeah this is the freak out in the fight and then she she's like oh I gotta do this photo shoot I'm tired I don't want to do this please look I'm tired can't we finish this without talking to something are you referring to this commercial or to our relationship darling Sean please move over I'm coming in Sean move over I'm coming in he takes the

driver's seat when she's already in it that already I was like why don't you just get in the passenger seat he's gotta be in it's cool seeing the the car with like I love how there's the camera crew in the movie right there I yeah I was gonna say I like seeing that I like seeing their little setup in the back of that truck the light on top that little like setup where you can climb up and be the light guy well it's like this Italian pickup

truck this morning I suppose you're doing it on purpose doing what on it's cool it's in it'll fucking Italy can we do this some other time I'll do it today you'd like to shop very rarely you'd like to go away with what's his name wouldn't you wouldn't you wouldn't you I love him like that I don't care he's like you look awful perfect let's take pictures let's come on your paycheck you have your eyes check I think flashcards

are really ruining your eyes Sean the car is moving so what the car is moving I'm doing the driving I'm taking the pictures okay you frightened I'm not but then I'm taking the pictures are you crazy okay okay really it's almost like I mean the build up to this is this is iron for his characters well because he is like upset at the end that like he doesn't want the card to be doing that at the end he's not resigned which is kind of when you think

about it a little confusing and a little frustrating too and how it plays out where it's like in this moment his character feels suicidal resigned to a chaotic he's a chaotic energy and or maybe it's just indifferent whether he lives or dies almost is what I kind of read out of this or where he's taking the car but when the car finally makes its final plunge he's like I don't think it's like I don't know he maybe or maybe he just thinks he's invincible

I'm just it's hard to get a read on what and why things are happening but this is in a way a cool scene and then you see the the black and white pictures of her freaking out later and it's like that is an interesting effect and I'm sure if he was alive today he would love those pictures he would love him he would love him and then she goes I shouldn't be laughing but just like this movie some of the beats just I was referring I don't

know even like the lady who sings the blues you just just think of like walk hard some in that movie or just like these kind of stereotypical almost like Hallmark beats and this is like the Hallmark movie beats and this is the part that reminds me of almost like a Tyler Perry movie where she and it doesn't read properly as well because like she's such an asshole it seems like to Billy Dee Williams that in a way the movie's telling you and somehow

she's like earned this for what she did to Billy but then she rehabilitates herself through through the care of her benefactor and Carlotta or whatever the other lady's name is and then she just continues to be a fucking asshole and she's learned nothing and had no bearing on on that at all and it's like if you're gonna go a stereotypical route which I thought you were going it was just confusing when it's like oh they're not going that direction

oh she's just gonna continue to be a jerk and then the Italian guy is gonna be like hey come on you can't berate the workers he's like well she's like well I'm paying him he's like honey I'm paying him I'm paying them and she's like I'm going home right and then she just interrupts Billy's speech and says I want my man essentially right I want my old man and then cue the music and he's running for Congress I think at that point or some

type of political scene and derails his speech pretending to be like just a yeah yeah but it's it doesn't play out quite how I think they it is gonna play out but it it does and it hits a lot of the stereotypical beats and then it has some other scenes strewn throughout that are like edgy and interesting like the gun scene like the the car scene and even like the opening dream sequence how it looks is interesting and it's trying to oh and the

montage as well as gonna say the montage with all the music and in Rome have been doing all the photo shoots and all the still images mixed with music and it was like an I don't know early music video or something like that of just kind of like celebrating Diana Ross and how and and just doing this whole vibe like it's it was he's a producer he sets a vibe and they're trying to set a vibe with the movie and there were moments where that

came through properly and other moments where it was not reading as as they as they think I'm gonna read a couple notes before we move on I turned your trumpet into a horn of plenty by putting the milk in the megaphone megaphone bed so funny right feels like first takes is what I put like it wasn't rehearsed a lot like some of the scenes felt like they were just like yeah that works let's move on oh yeah the telescope photo shoot deep breath

arch your back show us your tits and say shit $100 changed the air hockey scene I thought sounded rough to me and I just put that there the close-up on 7-up first against thirst did you see these close-ups oh the scene started and it was just a close-up like full frame of 7-up the first against thirst and then would zoom out to them walking down the room I was like why are we starting here it was such weird decision-making of like let's do

something cool and weird and different yeah right yeah and then like the close-up on the trash at the end too like where they're walking down the street and you know he's talking about how he's got to fix up the city and stuff and and it's like I think some of that is interesting when like Billy Dee's whole whole whole stick and spiel about uh what he's trying to do is and and their conversations about that I think are some of the better

dialogue but at the end of this once it might have been the end of the same scene it goes to a close-up of trash like yeah you remember that one like they walk by it might be the same scene at the end of the scene they walk away and then it stops they walk away and then it stops and just looks at the trash isn't is in Chicago just stealthy that's gonna clean it up I spent like a I spent like an hour putting that together you gotta you gotta

show the trash um the Rome's like a rich old lady she covers her wrinkles up with things that shine do you know how do you want to know how to or do you know how to shine these are things these are things that um Perkins is straight that's what I said uh he's hetero okay you don't make it here you end up here and talking about uh Chicago I think when she's trying to show her designs to Bruce Vlanch and other people uh yeah Bruce Vlanch

just a shout out Blanche uh lunches in this movie people stop that sign get out and vote for Brian get a little Diana Ross uh singing and that that part would have been nice to hear a little bit more maybe she want to be a singer or something that could have been cool it's okay um good politics is like good sex something about like it's if you're only out for yourself it's not going to be great whatever I don't know it was such a stretch

um oh yeah Perkins looking at the reflection in like the lamp that was that was a good acting moment uh let's see haphazard shots of room yeah you're only young once you may mature forever uh all my creations are the name of inanimate objects and he calls like them it uh not many volumes on the bookshelf oh god okay that was that was rough when they're talking about about Diana Ross and the modeling uh casting agency and then Carlotta gets up

and it's like hmm I'll take her yeah actually I'm the owner yeah and I'll take you got you a woman in a management position uh what are you looking at the gleam of mahogany oh god um exposure slat oh when he pulls off her outfit that was that was intense uh you old bitch yeah he just calls someone an old bitch old bitch yeah uh one of the guys is like saying like beauty is in the he's like beauty in the eyes someone tells him beauty is in

the eye of the beholder I think the benefactor he's like you'd be surprised it's the same for being rich is also in the eye of the polder and I'm like you guys are trying so hard to be so deep right now um yeah Billy Billy uh Billy's back turtlenecks eat from finger yep that's everything labels cadaverous what the fuck yeah mm-hmm thank those are my notes uh let's see what the other people have to say just real quick my notes is I have

down this movie is making me go insane already um I it is it is fucked up what Billy Dee does with the payment through the door window do you remember that where she pays for him to get out because she feels bad by putting the milk in the megaphone which causes him to fight people and then he gets put in jail and then to pay her back he brings up a big bag of change and then puts it in the door slot and she opens it and then she has to

go on a date with her after that no no fuck you um and then yeah I was that I just I so much of my notes was about the telescope stuff a lot of like what are we what the fuck are we watching this last girl and the photo shoot is off the rails yeah yeah just like wow what is going on um I did I did write yeah that Diana Ross dancing around the apartment is really the best moment so far and ended up being really the best moment in my opinion

um yeah I just it's also I yeah it was funny to me that so much of the like wow this clothing is so like hip and trendy is all like this same like sheer big like draped it's like people are wearing drapes and that was the that was so cheap Asian influenced an Asian influence where I'm like like the one the thing she wore that was she wasn't supposed to wear with like the dragon on it and then she had her hair up in a way yeah and then

the kabuki finale at the beginning this is like Japanese I guess that yeah like that dragon dress was and it was an interesting choice yeah oh also to the I was like why she was into that or I don't know yeah like why oh no great no that is an amazing point James of like why is she interested in Asian influence and how does that Asian influence have anything to do with uh haute couture in Rome like or yes fundamentally like her

inspiration why her big why is it a kabuki ending what about her life was like oh yeah I want to do kabuki theater they foreshadowed it as and then didn't pay it off in any way I was like we're leading to this kabuki finale so get ready dude totally and one last thing is the lira to USD conversion in 75 because they they were like I you know I always get so fixed on like they were talking about in the millions of lira uh we're like how much

the garments were going for whatever honestly not that expensive like I the conversion rate in 1975 from USD to lira was like I want to see was like around 750 750 lira to a dollar so honestly not that much surprisingly you know so it's one of those things are like well okay well I mean you're telling me that the wealthy elite of Rome are buying garments that are like I don't know yeah 700 bucks thousand dollars it's an interesting way to

yeah like a fashion show where it's also an auction I thought that was interesting as well that is like a catwalk and then the person just keeps on walking right you get that one eye you get that one dress uh-huh an interesting thing and then he just like brought it out to him later like all right here you go yeah I don't think they do that anymore because I watch fashion shows here and there and it is never like here is Balenciaga's summer

23 show and then people are like I'll pay someone just takes it off and just gives it to him right there yeah I don't know that doesn't really happen anymore but yeah let's yeah I'm excited let's see uh what the the icy cold 30% critics uh let's find a few little tidbits from what they uh they have to say here um let's do a little tidbit from the man himself sir roger ebert um he says you give it a two out of four mahogany is a big

lush messy soap opera so ambivalent about its heroin heroin that we can't even be sure the ending supposed to be happy it's just a little bit right yeah uh let's see what else we got here from uh slant magazine a two out of four from dan callahan even a charming last minute happy ending can't quite redeem all the mess and undi unidentified dread let's see from rita a goldberger from the lesbian tide uh ross's strong witty determined

character is so real that her sudden about face in the last few minutes does not ring true it's as if the director or writer couldn't stand the thought of her being rich successful and happy we've been saying fucked up um it's fine maybe one more um there's some like not not a lot not surprisingly it's hard to even find this movie uh but let's and these are going to be some maybe obscure ones but let's let's see um oh this one's funny bernard

drew from gannett news service mahogany is directed by barry gordy of motown he should have a big career in records you should uh from jacob atlas from los angeles free press diana ross who proved she could act with lady sings the blues struggles valiantly to create a character and sustain mood um let's move on to some audience feels about everything and more of the positive sense of the word a 76 percent um from louis louis b a four and a half stars high camp as ross

sizzles on the silver screen yeah that was like a perfect like a little tidbit oh i'd put that on the box um uh this is anonymous person five stars honestly mahogany is truly a nice change from the traditional black exploitation of the 70s with a strong cast and a fairy tale plot i would suggest this film to anyone that is interesting to think about because i mean we are not at all do do we talk about it because i just don't think both of us are

really familiar with black exploitation i mean god the 70s film in general is yeah you know not something i'm super familiar with and like the cont contextual elements surrounding this movie but what that means we maybe are due for a series or i would love to i would love to really end up in the 70s and please what is luna uh you may hear uh kitty cat screaming in the back she's looking at she looks at me and yells oh it's a big yawn big

yawn what i know i'm gonna feed you dinner once i'm done hey bruh you're you're fucking late and we'll do another uh anonymous these are some actual from rotten tomatoes i have some reviews left on the site itself five stars theme from mahogany i felt was a wonderful movie there was so many meanings involved all in one first off anything can happen at any minute one day a poor woman was working in the us as a dress designer in the next

minute she's a star fashion designer in rome the most important meaning of the movie was yet as successful as she was she had no one to share it with as stated in the movie and billy does say that in the end she chose her old life gave up everything to being a star to go back with the one she loved the song mahogany do you know where you're going to do you like the things that life is showing you where you're going to do you know do you

get what you're hoping for when you look behind you there's no open doors what you're hoping for do you know this song represents my life in all stages the words have and always will touch me unless you truly know what you want you will always wonder do you know where you are going to i love that so much that somebody who like has the passion within them to want to talk about critically these things but does not have the vocabulary i just my heart

goes out to them like i love that because yeah it seems like their hearts in the right place but to just talk about themes um yeah motifs a whole list of things that you would use as a word to reference what's going on in the movie as just meanings is just let's do a one or one or two more uh another five stars a name this his hands down one of the best movies i've ever seen whenever someone even mentions the name diana ross this movie

and all it stands for come to mind the story the acting and the dialogue are so real you get sucked right into the characters lives the costumes and soundtrack are sensational as well i must see movie from that era um and then one more or maybe oh there's this other one that says any true fashionista should watch this movie just so you know and then the last one one of the best five stars one of the best movies ever so very classic intelligent

and realistic dialogue gorgeous sweeping cinematography outstanding performances all around i cannot applaud this movie or recommend it enough it's hard to get beat like you're saying like the the person who took the time to write out the lyrics to the theme song that person has made the movie almost like their personality and i know i've done that i like dinosaurs for a long time because jurassic park told me to and that's the power of film ladies

and gentlemen uh let's kick off our own uh around around let's throw our own tomatoes around here it's tomato throwing time we throw a new tomatoes we don't know a name for segments um to you brandon do you want to start us off yeah give us a scribe a numerical value to this piece of art but before i do i know this is terrible because this is a a uh an audio medium but can we just can we just take a look at let me take a zoom in let me zoom

in here look at anthony perkins on look at this do you see this is this poster look at his whoa that looks like a scene from when he's on the the director's chair and they're kind of like the crane or whatever and he's like chewing gum like a maniac because his mouth is a gape he's got a camera in his hand and he's yelling it could be it could be in the car but i do love the whole there's a there's a dress that she's wearing that has

uh like a pretty pretty coloring and mahogany written on it and then this poster it looks like it is in french as well yeah i just that's so funny that he the picture that they drew essentially is him gape looking like he's yelling that that's everybody else is like cool and like kind of stoic on it and he's just like oh you're an object you're an object i shall call you mahogany mahogany that's what i call all women i will put your picture

on my wall yeah and it's your dirt in it because i don't like you anymore uh mother wouldn't like you and mother wouldn't like you yeah i could slap that fly i could do it i could do it i thought she was not too it's oh it's so funny to think about how much of a psycho he is yeah they really was like huh this character is or maybe it wasn't a psycho before he came in i know right now it's like super toned down and nuanced and he just comes in he's

like i'm gonna do he stole the show the performances in this in this movie i was i was clinging on to out of everything else well do you want to go first sure i mean that's i mean to to write off that like that's that's my big big positive is is the performances and the chemistry between diana ross and and and billy d uh and seeing him in a movie that's not star wars was really fun too seeing diana ross perform in a movie uh and and her her presence

is is really interesting and uh i think she's fascinating on camera in a way that's not too showy uh but kind of like for lack of a better word quirky like she's got some like quirky body language about about stuff and uh when she like does oh man see now mixing up like since we watched lady sings lady sings the blues as well but when and just her performance in general when she does like when she does her dancing and everything it's it's it's

cute and endearing and when she does the song for um for him about you know voting for him and people stop sign go out and vote for brian uh is like a natural charisma that a lot of yeah that was good casting in this in this movie the present the the production makes sense why it was that way after the lady sings with blues anthony perkins i thought was a great like a fucking choice choice pick for for that character and it made me happy to

to see him outside of psycho i don't think i've seen him in a movie outside of psycho and he is electrifying and he was stealing the show and but the gun scene was one of the better better scenes and even the car scene as well like if i saw that out of context i'm like what is this what is this movie aside from the director car apart from that you know it's yeah actually i'd still be curious but it's it's just those are tense thrilling

kind of moments in the in this movie uh but i don't know if it's trying to be too much uh and and accomplish so so much with all these narratives between the characters the the splicing between chicago and rome was one of my least favorite parts of the movie i thought like right when that happened the the i was at like the 40 minute mark is when things splintered and she leaves i felt lost in a way as an audience member of like this

feels like a brand new fucking movie now like her going to rome and then 10 minutes went by and then they went back to billy d for like a few minutes and then went back i just don't even care about billy d williams anymore like let her live her life and do what she wants to do but then he came back and then and these men she kept on kind of juggling between the men and it wasn't satisfying in that sort of way and then if you are going

to do the thing of like the destructive rags to riches i score a cc i know it's the 70s 70s and of course he hasn't made 10 of those yet but in that sort of way where i mean there's other ones like that i don't like fucking butch cassidy or some shit i don't know something like a movie where someone has to deal with being a fucking asshole or doing wrong things and having their come up and and she doesn't really get that either and it's just like

the most bland boring way to end the movie now that i'm like really resonating with it and talking about it this whole time of uh going back home and and going to be with billy d williams and that is done in a presentational showy sort of way that doesn't get into the issues which is all my criticisms with their whole relationship throughout the movie is when they should dig in and flesh out the things that really matter they do it and and

yeah like she just shows up and says a silly thing to him out of speech and then just wraps up and be like okay they're going to be happy now but it the the what that actually alludes to and what would actually occur uh i'm more curious about rather than just that simple action and i think that's that's something that it's not helping me out as an audience member it's trying to just have me assume things away when i'm interested in the journey

and in getting there and uh yeah and those elements of the journey are the character beats um and the performances and some of the weirder things like uh and reading even that review from the from i believe one of the even one of the critics of talking about the camp of this movie i think i think perkins adds adds a lot to that uh and just just being in europe is kind of cool like being in a rome i wish it was shot better you know like

i think we talked about this uh yesterday we were after watching of like yeah those just are shot very well it looks like someone just threw a camera in a car and just rolled down the window and it's all i get that she's in a car as well and it's trying to do the pov but still it just seems like rushed and it's like trying to be like hey look we're in italy now look at all this stuff i'm like well we can't really uh it's oh man it's kind

of tough to give it a a fucking score though i have to say um i'm trying to think like if i would recommend it or watch it again even and i think it comes a little short on both fronts um i would rather watch lady sings the blues but even that is like a long biopic that was like really dramatic uh so i might yeah just but seeing her at least seeing was was more enjoyable um but going through the process of watching the whole thing and you

know having a hard time to find it on youtube or i guess it's not hard to find it's just uh it's free on youtube but it's just the full edition isn't there so it's a little thing that's going to get lost of time that we took took our time to to watch and check out and i'm glad for that i'm glad i've watched it and checked it out it's giving me me more context about barry gordy if that's what you're interested in beyond that um i i just think

there's better stuff out there but it's it's not awful and there's some really good scenes and good performances so i'm thinking like a 40 50 range um it could veer on a 60 but i just i don't know if it's like fresh fresh i'll do like a 55 255 55 honestly man that's not it's not bad five five what or what this is because i think that just goes to show you these performances are there's so much yeah they're striking they're memorable at

uh at its peak of this movie but yeah for me this movie is so poorly made it's so like unintelligible in a lot of ways the relationships are what they stand for what the purpose of them is just so like leaves such a bad taste in my mouth i just the time that i was enjoying this movie was just as a as zoomed out being like isn't this weird that this is happening right relishing relishing in those moments of like whoa this is crazy that this is happening

but never was i on like in the pocket in the movie ever and this movie just was such a slog at times because yeah i mean um maybe it has to do with the youtube again i don't want to give i don't want that to affect my shit because it is what it is right like this bad sound mixing regardless of youtube i feel like yeah for sure and i mean but you watch lady sings of blues on youtube as well yeah right and that was better um that was better

made me yeah for me man i just i can't really recommend this at all unless and the thing is is like the only time you would recommend this is if you really are a huge supreme and dino ross fan hey perkins isn't that percolator go check that out right or if you're a big psycho fan but i never have met a person that's really like that and that's uh like i don't know for better or for worse i guess that's kind of a bummer because those are you know

the supremes are in one of the yeah one of the greatest bands of all time like i don't know so yeah like if you haven't seen this and you like the supremes definitely check it out but man isn't a shitty movie and um but i'll give it a little bit of credit that the performances were good um but i mean god this is not a good movie um so i'm gonna go for me this is a 42 i'm feeling a 42 that feels good light light for yeah light for

for me on this one all right tantana yeah um yeah that's where i'm i'm sitting here because it is um yeah it's not not good well yeah we're uh we're on there the same kind of temperature gauge of of rotten tomato and uh this was a movie from the 70s that we got to do again i'm so happy that we found one and i i will uh try to find do my due diligence and see if there's something that could be representative of older movies that are polarizing

and and i've mentioned this in the past but maybe not even according to rotten tomatoes maybe we start going out on the limb on some that are um polarizing in the moment that they come out and then become cult classics and then become uh you know just mega hits like i've mentioned the thing in the past is is one that's kind of done that big turnaround of not being very successful to you know just commonplace what are the better movies sorry

movies yeah like no i don't yeah it fucking rips so hard yeah but for this next one we are only moving up a few years and it is another movie from the 70s and it is another uh snary 40 uh production in in so many ways and it has all the people uh surrounding one very nope sherry sherry lordy i like snurdy for some reason that's not even close the whiz we're doing the whiz from 1978 it's got a 41 from critics it has a 65 from audiences

uh i'll read the info that it has on rotten tomatoes let's see here when harlem school teacher dorothy played by diana ross tries to save her dog from a storm she's miraculously whisked i mean we know what this is whisked away to an urban fantasy land called os after accidentally killing the wicked witch of the east upon her arrival dorothy is told about the whiz richard prior a wizard who can help her get back to manhattan as dorothy goes

in search of the whiz she's joined by the scarecrow michael jackson the tin man nipsey russell and the cowardly lion ted ross rated g directed by sydney lumet writer joel schumacher crazy crazy uh we will be talking about the whiz next time we hope you have enjoyed your stay here on the polar zone the polarized kingdom mahogany in the books uh if you in the fucking books if you want to reach us anywhere else uh we're streaming this live

on twitch.tv slash polarized pod uh on twitter.com slash polarized pod as well uh you can send us a line at uh polarize the pod at gmail.com if there's anything else you want to send us uh any movie ideas segment ideas uh any other fan mail or uh unfan or non-fan mail um we will take it all and i think that's fucking it we we love you all it's been real and we'll see you next time for the wheeze bye bye bye