One-on-One with Reem Assil

Today's interview is with Palestinian and Syrian chef and restaurants who are Realms Hill Ream just one week before her restaurants opening, and I had a chance to talk about her forthcoming restaurant and what now seems like a very long time ago and a much simpler times as MS Place was closed down just two days after opening and

is now closed indefinitely. As we all collectively await the fate of restaurants all over the country and over the world, so we decided to play this interview in its entirety for a couple of reasons. The first is that Realm is a brilliant and important voice in the North American restaurant industry, and we wanted to allow the proper space for her wisdom and experience to come to the fore.

And you know, related to the crisis itself, what you will hear is a brilliant person who's unique background in worldview was really ahead of the curve in so many ways. And what you will hear was a very broken system within the restaurant industry. So when I believe this interview provides for for us is a bit of organizational and UH an intersectional roadmap for how we might be able

to better organize ourselves on the other side of this. So, without further ado chef and Restaurants or reem a Seal, Hello, Hey, there you go. Well, I really appreciate you taking time. How are you spending your days these days? Yeah? I sort of toggle between Footville and mission, but mostly trying to open this space in the mission. And I believe I read family life Hello right, shrinking somewhere shrinking. They understand Mama, Mama's gotta get these bills paying. You know,

we just hired a new staff. It's a group of ten lovely people. I'm like trying had to get too attached them, like these are all natural board leaders. Like we just had a three day training with all of them, and it's not like your average restaurant training. I think they're not a lot of them, you know, have like come from the traditional setting where they just like go around and they're a body anywhere they apply, And here it's like no, like we're going to talk about systems

of oppression. It's like these are what our murals are. Expect you all to like know these things, and we did like Arab hospitality one oh one. So it's it's cool to kind of see people, to spark in people's eyes and like really kind of we we did a really good job sort of like waning it down to ten solid leaders and then hopefully it'll grow. Definitely, I want to talk about some of the stuff you just

brought up, beginning with systems of oppression. So if I come expecting to a restaurant job and um, I'm started, I'm talking about systems of oppression, how do you lead into that conversation. Well, it's it's more subtle. I mean,

I think part of what our job is. I think, as as people who maybe come from a more privileged background of understanding social justice, and like, you know, speaking work for myself, I'm college educated and like my awakening, I mean, I think being a Palestinian, you're always politicized from a very early age. So I understood systems of oppression to some extent. And I think, you know, community is especially once who've been marginalized sort of understand it intrinsically.

They just maybe haven't been given the resources to articulate it. So you know, what we sess out is just sort of and our interviews we talk about sort of realms core values, and then we have internal core values too, so we have external all sort of the way that we want the world to be and the way that we want that to be reflected in our business. You know,

things like centering folks of color, immigrants, women, queer folks. First, you know, supporting the local ecosystem, an already vibrant ecosystem, you know, whether it be supporting local farmers or local businesses, or providing our space to community organizations. And then community building, which is like the most universal one. You know, like you can't really organize unless you build trust and community and cohesion, and you know, at it's very basics, that's

REALMS mission is to to build that community. So just sort of having a conversation with people about that, but then we really get we get deep where like these are our core values. We have like four five core values that we ask people, like, tell people right off the bat, this is what we're looking for, and then just see how they talk about it and react to it and apply it to their daily lives. And you'd be really surprised how much people really sort of understand

some of those core values. Sure, Um, well, the the ultimate one. We we talk about integrity, So we want people who are honest, who really believe in just mutual respect and they would act the same way when people are watching then when people are not watching, right, Um, that they really value sort of the basic tenets of human rights, right the people to stand in their dignity and treat everyone that way. Um. We talk about commitment.

Commitment is a big thing, I feel like we and it's hard in this economy where it is there's so much instability. Like we're asking people to take that leap of faith to commit to commit to this job, to commit to the vision of realms. It doesn't mean they have to stay forever, but they're we're asking them to give us a commitment and commitment to themselves and their team.

So that's a really big one. We ask um desire to grow, just like we want people who really not just like our open feedback, will want to grow, want to be transformed to think that, especially if you're going to spend most of your time in the workplace, it should be a transformative space. So, you know, we talk about transformation in our communities and how we want to do that for our customers, but really, you know, you could teach some of them, but you know, and and

and the world is tough out there. You know, sometimes it brings out the worst in us, even those of

us who you know have the potential to be our best. UM, So we try to like really probe and and find and learn about people and how they are in their lives more than like how they are in the workplace, because we understand that the workplace, especially in the restaurant industry, is just plagued with racism, classism, able is um, all of the things, right, So like it's it's hard to just use that as an assessment for who we've ring into the space, right, And I have to say, you're

speaking with a particular depth in fluency on this subject. And if I'm not mistaken, don't you have a background as a community organizer. Yeah? Right, so this is this is all like new language and as someone who grew up in restaurants, really new ideas about what's possible. Yeah, it's like it's it's so interesting. I approach sort of building my restaurant as an entrepreneur, like an organizer, Like

I mean, I was a labor organizer. I used to you know, underground organized like airport workers and service workers, people who wouldn't even tell me what they were making on an hourly wage because they're afraid of retaliation. I remember like those first days finally, like after recruiting ten people, getting them in a room together and saying, this is the beginning, right, this is the beginning of building your power.

I take. I think a lot of this skills that I built as an organizer sort of helped translate to this setting where you know you're as an organizer, you're a facilitator, right, Um, you are obviously you're a leader, you're you're inspiring folks, but you're more behind the scenes to find to find ways to draw out the collective

power that's already there, you know. Um, and I think that where this butts up and against sort of the limitations working in sort of a capitalist system where you've gotta you know, you gotta keep moving, you gotta make money, you gotta turn a profit as you can't you know, it's it's hard to find the ways to find that time to make that transformation. But we have done it.

You know, We've taken the short term hit with the hope that the investment in people, you know, spending time and paying people to come for trainings and U spend that time for them to really sort of understand their skill set and be self perflective as a way to like invest long term. I think about that even with my staff have stayed with me to three to four years, Like, how do we make sure that we continue to show people growth and to get to new to inspire people

and motivate them. Um, that work doesn't just like stop at one training, But unfortunately, it takes time and it takes resources. And you know, I hope, I hope that I'm sharing a model that would resonate with other like minded folks in the industry where we could combine forces to do more of that to scale because I think, you know, not that we're going to start a revolution within the industry, but most of low income communities of

color are working in the industry. It's one of the It is, I think, the biggest employer of people in the country. So why not start somewhere where we have masses of people we have that can galvanize and politicize and transform, you know. So yeah, I think we don't beat people over the head with any of our politics, but we really sort of hope that the space is

politicizing in and of itself. Right, And to your point, you know, a lot of the conversations around the increase in minimum wage, and in fact the actualization of that increase can be credited to fast food workers campaigning. So this, this mentality is obviously ingrained in you and your background. Have you reached a point yet as an entrepreneur and business owner in which your values in your background as an organizer have felt challenged or conflicted as an entrepreneur

in business owner. When I made the switch to become an entrepreneur, like I understood the contradictions, I struggled with them for a little bit. You know, as someone who has deep resentment for capital is m as a system and understand that it is not the way and that we won't really have true democracy or true liberation in the context of capitalism. I also understand that in order to you know, fight the good fight and to imagine an alternative system, we need to build the resilience and

resources in our community. So we need we need to take care of our own. You know, I would say that I am trying to be outside the box, right, I'm a little bit on the fringes of all of it because I don't operate my business in in the most traditional sense. You know, if you look at all the rules of the game. You know, we run at labor Liant, and we build our model around the we you know this, this restaurant is not just a restaurant space. We provide a business that is the destination spot and

hits the you know, all the coolests. Like we understand that we are those contradictors. You know that we live in that contradiction. Like we need the people with more disposable income to understand and spend money on us and pay for the true cost of food. Right, we need to keep our prices high so that we can pay our workers, but then we don't want to price out

our own community. So I'm constantly grappling with how do I have both and um, you know, because you need that, and um, yeah, I mean the way I think about it is that, you know, restaurants are a conduit there a conduit from urban to rural areas, or a conduit from the rich to the poor that you know, like we're Yeah, I'm constantly having to come up around hard decisions around what's my values? Who who do we serve versus who we do do we not serve? Like what

do we make explicit versus implicit? Um? You know, obviously I took a really bold stance and Fruitville putting you know, Palestinian activists on my wall. Um, I just I didn't realize it was a problem until there was a sobering reality the um of this political context that we're in.

So there are often times where I like, I don't I think it's a problem until you know, then I'm met with challenges and then I have to you know, I'm I Then I'm faced with a choice either hied or being visibilized the way you have, you know, And and in times of my life, you know, I've had to do that and my community has had to do that or you know, double down and and be more outspoken,

and luckily I've chose the latter. Um. You know, I think being outspoken has been really my greatest asset and my best tool to really help other people come out of the trenches and you know, join with me. But yeah, certainly it's not easy on a day to day basis to run a business. I mean even things of like where I source, you know, like we unfortunately need to

rely on the gig economy of like delivery service. As an entrepreneur myself agree and underscore the need for multiple strategies in transformation like Um, so I want to talk to you about that controversy of having an activist that really, I feel was a definitive moment for you. I'm interested in that you did something that doesn't happen very often, which is stand your ground and really emerge within this our institution will say of the culinary, conventional culinary world

and media even more beloved. Dare I say, um as someone who has observed your work for the last few years and up close, So, um, how do you feel after that situation. I just want to know how you're feeling in light of that. Yeah, I mean I still really emotional about it. I think that, um, I'm really

really lucky. I mean, if the older version of myself talked to the younger version of myself, I would have told her, like, built community as soon as possible, because like, I don't think that I could have stood my I mean, I had a lot of people who came to my support.

So when I when we first got those attacks, you know, organizations that I had worked for for years, worked with for years basically like came to my side and like set up an SS system and helped me build my narrative, and it really helped me build the like inner strength to to say, no, this is who I am and this is this is I mean, clearly I had an affinity towards wanting to make a stand. I called my

food Arab food rather than Middle Eastern or Mediterranean. Like, you know, I was already making subtle political stances from the very beginning. I may have not realized that, um so this was just another part of that mission. And so to have people by my side helping me build those sort of inner reserves. I think is is really what what helped me get through that process. So I'm yeah,

I feel like that that was a group effort. I mean, obviously it took courage for me to do that, but it just made me see the power of like community and and and what I've built and what we've built. You know, obviously it's scary running a business and ann the ebbs and flows, but like you, it's sort of like a security blanket, like I just know that my

community is going to have my back. But that doesn't I mean, it doesn't negate all of the trauma and the experiences I've had and sort of witnessed sort of on the on the periphery of myself, my community. Any time that we are our identity as Palestinians were punished, you know, certainly rest me a who's who who you know as an activist in my wall. And now that

I know, you know, she lost the little battle. She's still winning because she is resilient and continuing to do the work that she's doing in Jordan's after her deportation. But it does feel like a little loss for our community, you know. Um, And I think about all of these these folks have taken a stance who did it for the greater good, and you know you were murderred or

you know, lost their jobs over it. So like the community that had your back is entirely a reflection of you and all of the love and earnestness that you put out in the world when you were building that community, and in just your existence has done so much for so many people who are not even Palestine, you know, but just in terms of creating that much needed space for so many of us. Um, So I appreciate you for that. Thank you. Yeah, I'd like to think this

this really intersects. I mean, intersectionality is a big piece of the work that I do. So you know, this is just a it's a it's a symbol of the bigger issues. Right. Last night, Selene, who is our producer for this podcast, she came to see you talk, um, and she told me this really great quotes which I'm paraphrasing, basically went like, if you build it, then they will come build it with me, right, which I feel isn't a perfect encapsulation of what you're saying right now about

the community. So, UM, tell me if I got that right, Like, what your philosophy is on that. Yeah. Yeah, I think what I was saying last night was like a lot of people are just like build it and they will come, and I'm like, let them build it with me, because well, one I don't have all the answers, you know, I think that that is a fault. I think a lot of people who want to present something to a community, like I think it's two way process, right, and it's

very lonely. Especially I'm sure you can resonate with this as an entrepreneur. Um. It can be very lonely not having thought partners and not having community if you don't seek them out, and like, what better way than to be a sort of a partner, and especially if you have For me, I have a physical space to be able to meet my community and see where they're at and see what they want, and to be able to sort of give and take as we say, like we

haven't an Arabic, we say give and take. And that has really served as well because it keeps Reams from being stagnant, keeps us always evolving, It keeps us always sort of self reflecting on what we're doing well and what we're not. And I'm always just really amazed to buy how brilliant people's ideas are, and also saddened when people are so knocked down that like we've lost our ability and imagine, so what would happen if we create spaces where people can kind of think outside the box.

And you know, I think that's what I've done. It reams, you know, both internally and externally. So like, internally, I really try to build processes that are more collective, you know. I mean it's kind of ironic that the business is named after me, so much of the growth of it has been sort of a collective effort of my leaders, you know, So I think, yeah, it just keeps me

honest too, keeps me on my game, That's right. I think that is the crucial Part two is about the accountability it provides for you as the as the business owner to write like totally, let's talk about food for a little bit. I would love to know what some of your earliest and most formative food memories are and then tell us about like your transition from organizing into food into food. Yeah, I've been reflecting a lot on this. I feel sort of robbed of like my food memories

from my childhood a little bit. And it's not to say I didn't have any experiences with food, but we were very much like sort of, Uh, I was a latchkey kid. Both my parents were working, and my mom was going to school and working, so she didn't really sort of cook the traditional foods, and so my my life sort of toggled between macaroni and cheese, instant raman and then sort of family gatherings of like big you know, plates of herm us and all the different mesa spreads

with bread. But it was never sort of the home cooked meal um that we had, I think when I think about sort of and I grew up in the oldest of three um, so it was me and my sisters and my parents. When my mom did have time to make food, you know, it was always sort of incorporating you know, our flavors sort of traditional Arab foods in American dishes, you know, so we would like have cooked a meatballs in spaghetti, um and like classic and

the red sauce. Yeah. I mean that's kind of a classic immigrant and first generation story, right, It's like these iterations and adaptations I kind of yeah, and like um, the pally Kali, which is like our popular dish on the Realms menu is sort of emerged. It really isn't homage to My mother likesachan, which is like the traditional chicken dish that Palestinians enjoy. You know. It's traditionally made on this thin bread, but my mom used to sort of wrap it in tortillas for us and have these

little chicken burritos. And that's always how I grew up eating it. Never grew up eating, you know, chicken like open faced on pieces of bread. And I'm like that it's just genius and it's just you know, for me, I think I approached my food the way that my mom approached food about you know what, what's familiar to people, and what resonates and what's convenient, you know what, um not taking food too seriously and so yeah, I think it wasn't until sort of my adult life, you know.

And and and we have the like uh we we grew up. Our home away from home was southern California, where my grandmother was the matriarch of the family and she was the master cook. But she was very very secretive, not secretive. She was just like, I don't need no help,

I don't need any helpers. I will cook for an army and everybody out of the kitchen, you know, and so I have these memories and sort of peeking in on her and like, you know, just like she was the most amazing cook, and she was just like make these elaborate spreads, and you know, for us, like the biggest meal of the day was in the afternoon and we would you know, go swimming, and it's she was

like sort of the central nexus of the family. We were all over the place, everywhere, from Greece to different parts of the States to back home in Lebanon, and you know, California would be the place that we'd all meet, you know. And then when her health deteriorated, a lot of those food memories disappeared because she would no longer cook for us. So it's you know, I'm still sort of delving through all of that and trying to understand.

But for the most part, I feel like I really had to kind of search deep for the food that was politicized from a very young age, Like politics have always been sort of a part um of my experience and just being Palestinian, like my you know, we grew up in New England and we would like take trips to Plymouth Rock, you know, and learn about the Pilgrims.

And at the same time, like my uncle who's living with us, would be like visiting the jails and like showing solidarity with Native Americans because Palestinians and Native Americans are upgraded from the land. Like so, I understood those contradictions, or at least witnessed them from a very young age.

You know. I went to Gaza at the age of twelve, and like, you know, two years after sort of went to the Deep South, like organized a trip to the Deep South with my history teacher because I wanted to learn about the real history of civil rights. I was able to mimic those connections to Gaza. So it was like all this cumulative stuff. But it led to like a deep depression um in two thousand one, and unfortunately

I manifested in like not being able to eat. I think a lot of our communities food and the way that we deal with our mental health food is very intersectional with that. And you know, I dropped over thirty pounds within two months. I was you know, in the hospital. I was sick. I didn't know what was wrong with me. Every time I wanted to eat. I couldn't keep it down. So I had to leave that context of this like sort of super neoliberal, you know, private college setting, and

you know, I found California. I rediscovered I was like, let me get as far away from Boston as I can. And it was in sort of my move to California where you know, obviously it wasn't an overnight healing, but um, it was in sort of finding activism and food at the same time that my healing started to happen, and slowly but surely I was starting to learn recipes that

I could eat. I remember my memory of the first farmers market I had ever been to, which is like, yeah, like my eyes just started to open to this world, and I think, yeah, I started to like pick up cookbooks and learn how to cook this that I had grown grown up on and taken for granted as an adult. Wow.

I love that your journey is such a good representation of who you are in that it's all encompassing, like with the politics and the hell it's an unusual journey, but I think it just speaks to why what you've created is so unusual as well. And I think about this when I share the story with other people. There are similar stories, like people don't talk about sort of their relationship to food and how it's evolved, you know,

through its intersection with trauma, it's intersection. There's just so many things like we talked about, you know, physical health and mental health are very interconnected, and especially for communities who have been displaced or you know, have experienced trauma in different ways, like it's very connected to food. I want to ask you about Palestinian food in particular, or really I guess this is this will also lead us

into the realm of language. Palestinian food is oftentimes absorbed under these broader names like Middle Eastern or even Mediterranean or Israeli. So as a Palestinian chef who also has chosen to use Arab with purpose and intention, I was hoping you could just kind of help us better understand some things that are Palestinian. And you know what, do you feel the role of these labels are in perpetuating

ideas about Palestinian food? Yeah, first off, context is everything I choose to sort of so, so obviously the Arab world and especially the levant, you know, which is all part of Greater Syria. There was a lot of evolving and moving of foods, and you know, the foods that I grew up with. I mean, I'm Palestinian Syria, and I grew up more with you know, my my mom's and my mom's family's influence of the food than sort

of my Syrian side. And there's there's obviously distinctions, Like I remember going to Syria as an adult and being like, oh, I never grew up with this thing, right, So, and that that is sort of a I think part and parcel to colonization and sort of the drawing up in lines and communities get more distinct as they're separated, right. Um. But for the most part, you know, there's a lot of similarities of the food. So I kind of sort

of deviate away from the jockeying for ownership of food. Um. However, I choose to talk about my food in different ways

depending on the political context. And right now, for Palestinians, we're living in the political context of a people that have you know, for almost a century now, really since the early nine hundreds, from the sort of British colonial forces and then sort of the Zionist takeover of Palestine, have basically exhibited genocide displacement, you know, a slow dying death where you know, life for Palestinian and who are living under those those conditions, there's there's a basically a

sint in line between life and death, you know. And as an international community, calling these foods Israeli or calling these foods, you know, just a complete sort of omission of a Palestinian identity further works to normalize that reality for us. And so the act of asserting you know that these foods are Palestinian and they have been indigenous to that land way before the takeover of the hell and is a political act, right, It's a political act

to say that we're going to resist. You know that our existence as resistance and I don't know, speaking for myself and the diaspora, adds to my resilience, you know, because identity and and and feeling a sense of identity is so intertwined with like our motivation to live and and be you know, so when you lose that, it makes it really hard to to be motivated to sort of be in this world and and find humanity with others, right when you have a loss of identity, and so

in the context of occupation and apartheid, and not even having our basic human rights, especially in occupied Palestine, the food becomes a way to sort of assert that, you know, where the one of the biggest refugee populations. Some of us have lost our language, um lost our traditions, and so food becomes a way of to keep those alive. I remember, like, at a very young age, like why

why do we talk about Palestine all the time. Like I remember like asking my uncle that, and he was like, you know, we may not see the liberation of our land in you know, in our lifetime, but we need to keep this going because I need my children to know that we're Palestina. I need my grandchildren to know that their Palestinian, you know, and so on and so forth, and so, you know, food becomes a way to keep

those alive. I I think about this a lot because, you know, living in California and learning some of these recipes and talking to my family or to my mom about you know, and a lot of my mom's side of the family is from Gaza and and still live there. They can't cook these foods. Musachan, which is the main ingredient of musa, and the chicken and onion dish is olive oil. It's a dish that like, you know, really celebrates the olive harvest, which is like so integral to

Palestinian cuisine. And because of the blockade and Gaza, people cannot afford olive oil. They can't afford the thing that is very indigenous to their land in the West Bank, where the olives basically like make up a huge part of like rural living. On a daily basis. They're dealing with the Israeli government and the occupying for is you know, raising their lands and uprooting their olive trees, things that

take forty years to grow and mature. So you know, I feel very privileged to be able to keep that dish alive and its truest form when my family cannot make that dish to its truest potential because of the conditions there. Fish and seafood is another thing, I mean Gaza.

In Gaza, you know that on the coast, a lot of their cuisine was based on seafood, but no longer can write because the Israeli government controls the waters, and fishermen can no longer fish and subsist off of the very thing that there they were subsisting off for many generations. So yeah, I think it's very political, and so I choose to tell those stories. I think it's more important

to tell the stories. And like with the Israeli food craze, there's a very intentional sort of way in which Palestinian identity is a met it. You know, they talk about all the influences of Arab Jewish populations that immigrated there. They have no problem talking about that, but there's like this very stark omission of Palestinian, even the word Palestinian and the cuisine because the very sort of speaking of Palestinian is a threat, right, So yeah, we have to

talk about that. I think that that is really important. That context not necessarily about who owns what, but what is the story behind it that we're trying to either mask or normalize er m hmm, Because, for instance, there is no Palestinian coalition who will be funding the world to come visit and eat their right exactly. Yeah, we don't have those resources. So can you can you talk about this because I know this is another really hotly

contested issue that you were a part of. Yeah, I mean I think, I mean the US, I mean, the I was just interchangeably used the Israeli government in the US government, because they go hand in hand. Like if anybody thinks that the US is under the lure of Israel, it's it's it's a very symbiotic relationship. I mean, they need each other right to sort of maintain control over that region. But in the more recent years, and this is I think this is just something for us in

the food world to really understand. Is that food maybe one of the last frontiers of organizing. You know, Um, it's really a way to galvanize the hearts and minds of people. If you think about food, it's the it's the thing that intersects with everybody's lives. And so it

doesn't surprise me that, you know. So the Israeli government has put millions and millions of dollars into what they call their gastrol diplomacy programs, and it's a way to sort of combat the de normalization of Israeli apartheid, so that there's a big movement globally over the last ten

years that have called for boycott, divestment, and sanctions. And it's a way to sort of economically and politically sort of isolate Israel until sort of the government makes mixed changes right end apartheid, and it's modeled off of South Africa in the eighties and which was a very successful movement of people pushing on the US government and all entities that were investing in the apartheid movement and eventually

apartheid fell. Um. So one of those avenues around it is sort of the cultural boycott, right, and so people are starting I mean, you know, with the advent of internet and and all the things, people are not oblivious to what's happening to the Palestinian people. So as a way to sort of counteract that and sort of strike their image, you know that we're like this haven and you know, there's a certain whitewashing. We even say a pinkwashing.

There's a lot of you know, all the different greenwashing, just like let me let's just like present Israel and the best light to people so they can see it's not all that bad. Right. And so they've like basically done these sort of tours, these culinary tours for people to come and it's like, you know, celebrating farm to table cuisine. And how ironic that they're doing farm to table.

We're right next door. They're like raising farmlands on a daily basis and kicking people out of their homes, you know, and basically illegally putting settlements right in the middle of people's villages. So, you know, we wanted to point the hypocrisy of that, in the irony of that, and you know, really pushed on people in the culinary word, especially because

they look for influencers. You know, this is not the first time I think they The other arena they've done a really good job is in the sports arena, in which you know, people like Michael Bennett from and this is gonna really reveal my lack of knowledge and yes who you know read up on it was like, I'm not going to be used as a tool to normalize this,

you know, but they find culinary influence. There is you know, really sort of known chefs who have a following to go there and to sort of normalize, and we pushed back against that. I think the late the biggest victory we had. We we we held sort of a series of pop ups that really was like, Okay, if you guys are going to have these events, we're going to have our own, um what they were calling round tables. We called it the asymmetrical table. Because the playing field

is not really leveled. And we held a series of those in New York and they were like, it's amazing. People really want to understand and learn about, you know, what are the dynamics there. But the following year, we pushed on Real Hamilton's and a few other chefs in the US to pull out of their round tables, and we were able to get them to do it. So I think things are changing. People don't want to be associated with apartheid, and you know, I feel like the

tides are shifting a little bit. I mean you see this in the politicals three or like even the Democratic Party doesn't want to go to the APAC conference right because they don't want to be seen as So you know, I just I feel like I'm part of that movement sort of in my culinary setting to have these hard conversations and you know, to engage people both on a public and a private level of what do we do to really use food as a tool to talk about

these stories and to reconcile and to also ensure justice. You know, like people are like, oh, can your food bring peace between you know, like that sort of can your food big priests between the Arabs and Jews, and like there's not a problem between Arabs and Jews, right, Like that's not the actual issue at hand. And my food isn't going to be the thing that brings peace. It's justice that's going to bring peace. But if my food can be a way to start conversations, then that's great,

you know, but I don't. I think it's going to take the work of a lot of people who believe in justice. I believe in social justice to really think about how do we turn the system up on his head? And and and and the biggest thing is, you know, supporting Palestinians in their call for liberation, their right to return, their right to have a seat at the table and have the same human rights as everyone else. And you can't really do that in an exclusionary form, right, Like

one people can't be promised something over another people. So until we sort of get to that, and so, you know, we continue to assert our identity, we can we continue to try to live is and it's in those simple acts of cooking and keeping our food alive, whether it's here or there, that we do that. And I just feel excited to be a part of that movement. I'm connection.

I'm We're working on a delegation in the fall. Harvest of folks are interested in that between food sovereignty activists here in the US and Puerto Rico and food sovereignty activists in Palestine. And I'm really excited about that because I think a lot of these delegations that go to the region, it's like it feels a little extractive, and this delegation is more like an exchange, you know, what can we learn from each other, Like the work that

Palestinians are doing on the ground. I mean, from the small little pop ups to you know, the more sort of organizing efforts to get healthy foods in the schools. It's really amazing, like what people are doing with so little resources. And I think that there's a lot to learn sort of across UM events. Definitely. Well, yeah, yeah, we're having a series of events. We we just had an event with Bryant Terry here at the moad UM where we talked about sort of the intersections of black

liberation struggle around food sovereignty. We want to do an event with indigenous communities here in San Francisco. We're looking to do pop ups in Detroit for the outline media conference. So yeah, just really using this as a way to sort of engage people about the intersections too, because it's not all that different what's happening on the ground over

there and what's happening here and in the US. I want to ask you a question about the sanctions, because the people who got really piste off about that basically said, well, why are you isolating Israel? Why are you singling out Israel when so many countries, including our own, as you pointed out, commit horrible atrocities and we don't see the same kind of organizing. So it's not that we have anything against Palestine, but we really don't get why you're

singling us out. So what is your response to that? I just think that's a pivot. I mean, I think the biggest response to that is that the US is an accomplice and in this system and what it's able to do, so we have the power to do something about that. You know, there's like billions of dollars that go to one of the strongest militaries in the world. You know, if they didn't have all of that tax money that we pay as consumers, they wouldn't be able

to do what they do. So that's kind of how I talk about that, Um that we have the power as Americans, who you know, our government as an accomplice to all of this. I would say the same thing about our USA two dollars, two suny dollars, who are creating a lot of if you if you follow the money, the US isn't cprently sort of the the single culprit and all of this right, and so as Americans, we have the power and how we allocate our tax dollars and all of this to really affect change on sort

of a massive level. But yeah, I mean without getting into the geopolitics, that's the simplest way, but I could connect all of these uh really horrible governments and and how it's all actually connected to that. So that's another podcast, that's a that's another that's another conversation. But yeah, it's a bliss form obviously we're accomplices and sort of the taxpayer dollars that we pay to this government and this military and being able to do what it's doing. Ring

you are the best. I love talking to you. I really appreciate everything you're doing. Such a great time chatting with you today. Yeah, thank you so much. Thanks for me. We hope you enjoyed that talk with rem M. Thank you so much for sharing your time and wisdom with us.

If you all were moved by this discussion as I was, and you would like to support Realm in her work, you can donate to her go fund me entitled Reams Fruit Veil Worker Relief Fund, which you can find linked in the show notes for this episode, which is on our website wet Stone Magazine dot com Backslash point of Origin. Thanks again, Reim, and we will be back next week with more from Point of Origin. Special thanks to my business partner who makes all things possible at Whetstone, are

co founder Melissa she Thanks mel. Thank you to Selene Glazier, who is our lead producer. To Cat Hong our editor, to Havin Obasa Lassa and Quentin lebou our production interns. To our friends at iHeart Radio for helping us bring you this podcast. To Gabrielle Collins are supervising producer, engineer J. J. Pauseway,

and executive producer Christopher Hasiotis. I'm your host the origin Forager Steven Saderfield, and we will be back here next week with more from Whetstone Magazine's Point of Origin podcast,