Black Coffee

ideal coffee supplier. And finally we chat with Doug Hewitt of ninety one Coffee in Oakland, California, a nonprofit organization providing job training for refugees. Today on point of origin, it's black coffee that we you know, find ourselves, you know, really situated in this especially coffee movement where you know, things are really growing and a lot of awareness around

origins of coffee. And there was maybe ten fifteen years ago the sort of so called third wave of coffee really came to the forefront with companies like Stumptown and Blue Bottle. On the walls of Red Bay Coffee HQ in fruit Bale, California is a huge living sculpture of Africa by way of hanging plants in the shape of the continents. Outline in the background is the hum of roasting sheens, embellished by the ambient buzz of a diverse

cross section of the Bay Area community. Red Bay has never just been a quick stop for coffee and always a hub for the neighborhood. Here Kaba is explaining coffee and the way that it is most often talked about within and around the industry, using the nomenclature of waves.

What I'm seeing American now is maybe a fourth wave of coffee that's really addressing not just the quality of coffee, but in addition to that, the movement around it, the really the impact that we're having on the environment and on various communities. And when you talk about this movement, can you summarize what this sort of third and fourth wave coffee movement is for people who might not be

aware with that version. The third wave coffee movement, you know, really began, like I said, about fifteen years ago, and

it was around a couple of principles. It was around roasting coffee to its sweet spot and not over roasting it, really trying to roast a lot lighter than it had historically been to really reveal more of the nuances of of the coffee and and how it reflects the terror of the origin where it was grown, the environment, um so, and and really being a lot more transparent about the

origins where these you know, particular farms came from these microlots. Also, the third wave had to do with in the cafes kind of a certain aesthetic coffee. So that's a rough summary of what sort of the third wave was. It was. It was post Starbucks, which was you know, kind of like a second wave if if, if you will, one another thing that was not necessary part of the third wave, but it was just how it was, which is it's uh, you know, very wide elite, elitist space in terms of

these kind of fancy specialty coffee shops. So this this next wave, you know, really just kind of taking form, is just you seeing a lot more folks who are reflecting some of these origin countries, whether it's you know, folks from you know, the the teens community or African Americans participating. But really the net is getting wider and

more people are starting to enter into this space. Actually, two thousand eighteen was the first time that they just gathered some data where it showed that African Americans are the fastest growing consumers especialty coffee. You know, so and coffee overall is sort of flatline in terms of growth, but it's um so, there's that whole movement what we're tapping into, right, some of the things you're not really tapping into it. You kind of are the movement, though.

I feel like you're being kind of modest right now because you're talking about this burgeoning group of black coffee drinkers. I mean, I came in on the third wave, but you know, like you you are the uh the black coffee roaster in the States, right so uh yeah, yeah, I was saving that for you. Yeah. That's my job is to let people get the full context now for sure.

And that's why I want to talk to you, you know, because it is you guys started in and you know it's we're now five years in, guys are continuing to grow. And I have in my time in Oakland very much experienced the amount of enthusiasm and excitement, especially black and brown folks in Oakland have felt around your brand and the quality of the coffee that you are are selling.

But how did you as as a black man who was an artist and entrepreneur, I mean, you had a restaurant in Berkely, how did you find your way into the coffee game? And once you landed there, how much of your awareness self awareness as a black man in the space has influenced the way that you've run and grown Red Bay. Like a lot of people in the coffee industry, didn't necessarily seek out to be in the coffee industry, but UM kind of came in the back door,

so to speak. So that was new to me and UM but UM just having impact, hiring, building the team, helping, you know, support UM people. It was just really fascinating path. So that's kind of how I got into it. Through the arts, into the coffee. The coffee really took off. Open a second coffee shop. Now I got two coffee shops. It's time to chap into some of the relationships I've

had established around the world. Is A is a photojournalist, UM traveling to many African and Central American and Caribbean coffee origin countries. Uh Um. So I wanted to kind of cut out the middleman and start sourcing my own coffee. And so that was a whole you know, um experience onto itself in terms of you know, just my path on on on teaching myself on how to roast coffee and kind of enter into that level of the game.

And it's a good point that you mentioned about these countries of origin, because one of the weird things about coffee, or maybe not that weird at all, is that most of the countries that are growing and producing the coffee are exactly the opposite of the countries who are importing the coffee and consuming the coffee. So when you moved into the idea of roasting and having a little bit more of a stake in the supply chain, how much

was that on your mind when you made that decision. Uh, well, it's something I was very aware of, you know, like I mentioned in in these sort of third wave coffee shops, you know, just the overall UH culture was very homogenous. Uh. This is something that you know, my folks have adopted and uh and fetishized, you know, especialty coffee, along with a lot of other components of black culture. Coffee started

in Africa, Ethiopia to be specific. You know, when the more I was learning about the history of coffee and the origins of coffee, and it just seemed to go against the grain of the popular misconception that coffee started in Italy or Seattle or Columbia or something. So that

was something that was important to me. You know. It was actually even camped into some of the work I did as a photo journalist, which was wanting to sort of reveal some of the stories UH in Africa and African to ASPRAA that were I think, you know, miss uhconceived images and understandings of Africa right where it's not just a desolate place with misery and you know, suffering, but you know vibrant, rich cultures with lush lanes and

you know there's hard times too. But as a photographer and artists I went into I was compelled to show and tell some of those stories. I'm seeing more and more entrepreneurs of color getting into coffee. It's a billion dollar a year industry. So this is an enormous industry of technology, education, training, importing, exporting for people who are not up on coffee, who can't really understand or rationalize

like a three dollar or four dollar a cup of coffee. Um, can you talk about some of the distinguishing characteristics from some of the regions that you will work with, and how that has an impact on the premium coffee if you think about the spectrum of quality and prices that come with the industry, like wine coffee, for really special tea coffee emerged as a theme. It was really just the cheapest coffee, roasted really dark. So it's all sort

of the same as and predictability of of mediocracy. And it was cheap and you know, and it had caffeine and that was sort of the thing. So as as the industry started to kind of specialize and trying to elevate the quality, you know, the level of investment, the level of labor that goes into it. You know, the complexity you know of specialty coffee is as much or

greater than than wine. Special thing is once you start sort of exploring outside of latte's and cappuccinos and flavored drinks, and so yeah, I would just encourage everyone who's listening to this. You know, next time you're coffee shop and you have a few extra minutes, you know, um order to pore over and just talk to the recent about some of the different options, and you know, you may pay a dollar more and wait a few more minutes. Uh, but go forward and invest invest in that all right on,

and what is next for Red Bay Coffee? Signed the lease on a on a building in South l a. And we're just broke ground this week on the construction of it. And uh yeah, it's very exciting, you know. So what we're building is a public rostary, but our spaces are also open to the public, their cafes, their their venues for doing all sorts of events. So that's one of the things that distinguished his Red Bay Coffee from most coffee companies. We create platforms for community engagement.

We did two hundred events last year in Oakland at our public rostery there. So this will be our second

public rosary and it's you know, eleven thousand square fee. Um. And there will be you know, designed, there will be our you know events around you know um, you know, uh, independent films or you know, fundraises for fifty black women running for political office, conferences around educating the black child to live music and you know, pole dancing demonstrations that I mean, it really is really a reflection of the community. It's really a manifestation of what is around us in

the community. Really Big Coffee is the largest black owned coffee company in the world and UM, and we're making a impact. We're you know, doing what we do in terms of storytelling and marketing and and UM to make especially coffee more approachable in terms of you know, really how it's you know, thinking about some of these relationships, you know what I have seen mostly in the industry, it's a lot more sort of barista as a color, right, So it's visibly you're you're seeing it change on the

very front lines. UM. Not as much in the boardrooms and ownership and and really executive leadership of some of the more competitive companies. I'm not really seeing it there yet. I'm seeing more and more entrepreneurs of color getting into coffee. It's a billion dollar a year industry and there's just such a vast array of career paths and opportunities. I'm always encouraging folks to to, you know, explore them. I was born and raised in Bundi, which is a central

East Africa. It's a very small and tiny country and we call it the heart of Africa as a more fact, but unlocked sharing borders would want that to the north Tanzania to the east and then Congo to the west. Burundi native Janine neon Ziema, a Roian, is the owner and founder of j NP Coffee. Yeah, so brund is a producing it to a coffee producing country actually which most people you know, not everybody knows about it. But

we didn't drink coffee. Actually when I was growing up in my own home, we actually drink more tea, teas more. You know, the culture you know, in Burundi and um coffee mainly was used for is a is a cash crop.

In two thousand twelve, Janine founded j NP Coffee and has since won multiple awards for her specialty coffees and development strategies, which have consistently prioritized participation in equity for women working at the point of origin, prioritizing gender equality, supporting financial literacy and education, plus development of leadership skills. Janine today is the only woman who is a majority shareholder in a large Burundian coffee conglomerate. Bone is a

very small country. It's actually the size of Maryland State. UM. And then because it's so small also um, there is a scarcey of land. Uh. There's eleven million people living in Burundi. UM and really we kind of like live on the top of each other, if she might say, because of you know, how small the country is and and and also um what can be produced from that country. So when we really talk about coffee that's produced from Burundi, UM, it's it's it's very little compared to how much coffee

is produced in places like you know, Brazil. UM. So because of that, the opportunity actually to be able to make a coffee from Brundi very special and very unique is that, um, because it's not overwhelming. We don't use machinery, you know, but you know, the cherries are picked by hand during the harvests and every year by the farmers and um. So the you know, the the labor work,

it's very intensive. This is something also some of the most people don't understand is the amount of time and energy that goes into really making that cup of perfect cup of coffee that you end up by consuming every morning that we all look forward to. Uh So, but you know, labor wise, it is it is very intensive because it's the same bound the coffee is picked by hand. There's no machineries, um. And it's it's delivered to the neuralests you know, wet meal, and usually that's about an

hour or so of walk. So most of the pickers you know would actually deliver on the on the head um. Some of them were you know, fortunately have a bicycle. They will actually put on a bicycle so it can be delivered to the nearest you know, wet meal on on bicycle. And then once the coffee actually get to the wet maal it gets there's like another level process, you know, they had. There's this flotation process that the

coffee had to go through. And after the flotation and which I mean the you know, the good things, they take it out the bad things that throw it away. And then after that the coffee goes into a machinery which called the the popping, which removed the skin over

you know, the cherry. And then it goes into uh the soaking overnight soaking of the cherries into um tanks you know, until you know that what they called the musilage to be able to remove that you know, mutilage on on on the you know, on the beans, and then from there the wash it and then it goes onto the called the rays African beds and that is like a thirty days time to really turn and um, turning and and moving and covering of of the of the of the bean until it dries out and then

goes to the dry meal um then which it goes through the last process before I get explorts. So it's it's very labor intense. But because so the nature of the country being small, on the amount of coffee that's being produced in Bundi, it's small relative to what goes on in other bigger countries um or major countries, which also is also in my point of view, as an opportunity to really make the Boondi coffee just amazingly exceptionally. UM. Well, yeah,

that makes sense. Because it's so small, it actually gives you a larger opportunity and the global marketplace because it's a more specialty item. For me, the reason I really got into more coffee and and and left the corporate world was the ability, as I said about this you know special beings from Bundy, the ability that we actually we could you know, utilize this being to alleviate people

out of poverty. In two thousand and eight, before starting JMP Coffee, Janine started a nonprofit called Burundi Friends International and Economic Empowerment Initiative to create sustaining communities in Burundi. In the last four years alone, J and P has paid over a quarter million dollars in the form of bonuses and premiums which encourage quality and ensure economic sustainability.

So I actually use this as a way to kind of empower you know, farmers in Bundy to kind of provide them, you know, an opportunity to be able to get the extra income in by incentivizing and empowering the farmers to produce the high quality you know cup of coffee. Because we always go back and provide what we call the second payment in the form of a premium then again to encourage them to continuously you know, produce a

high quality you know coffee. But in terms of so I'm involved from everything, you know, there's a from you know, dealing with farmers. You know, I get calls from farmers all the time UM that that we that we deal with to you know, dealing with one males that we also happened to also have some shares in some of their web mails, which is the processing you know centers UH in Bundy to UM making sure that every single time. I always tell people it's like every cherries that we

provide is Genpi coffee. We have been involved from that chair from the time we get picked from the tree to the time we actually get delivered to the wind

male which just follow it all the way through. As as as an owner, I get involved from you know, farmers wanting to work with us and figuring out we want to work with and how we're going to support them, to making sure that you know, the coffee, we select the right coffee and and we bring forward the right coffee, to exporting a small fact right now is really speaking, um, just finishing putting some coffee on trucks that are living Bundy, and we have some continuers that have already left you

know the port of Tanzania heading um, you know to the States. So this this, this is the whole taking talking about the whole picture of what I get involved from knowledge is you know what coffee origins that you know, our coffee come from. But she also really getting the coffee, you know, move smoothly and safely from Londed to get into port in the US too, then finally getting to

our rosters you know, throughout the country. In this case in the US, but also in other part of the world because we also work in Europe and an Asia. M hm, can you help us understand Burundi and it's coffee from a ter war perspective? Very good question. So, Um, first of all, I think, as I had mentioned earlier, brewing this absolutely gorgeous country. So it's a bit and and and you don't I didn't know myself how beautiful it is actually until I went back, which is very interesting.

But it's very hilly. Um and coffee usually grow from anywhere around six six thousand feet above sea level. Um and Um. The weather is very cool in the countryside where the you know, coffee grows, and usually on hills. Um And the soil itself, it's a volcanic soil. It's actually kind of a reddish soil, which is very good when it comes to providing the right nutrients you know,

for you know, for the cherries. So it also helps you know, to hold the water very well in the cherries and also produced like the the right ingredients that the cherries need to grow and and and grow well. Burundi's volcanic soil and modest annual rainfall contribute to a perfect environment for growing coffee. Volcanic soil is rich and nutrients such as nitrogen, which coffee plants really really need.

Burundi's Arabica coffee grows at a high altitude, which contributes to the bright acidity, sweetness and complexity of these full bodied coffees. And then there's a sunshine so it's cooler during the day, the airly in the morning, uh, kind of like the bay area actually climates, if I might say. And then during the middle of the day, you know, the sun just like you know, just shine on on on the trees and then on the cherries, which is something that also perhaps you know, the you know, the

cherries to grow very well. And and and I time it goes down to our cooling which also preserve and help uh you know, the cherries you know grow properly. Um. So yeah, so very high elevation um. And also the volcanic soil of of of Burundi and also the cooler weather um and also being able to grow on the

hills really helps. I guess the coffee from Bundy very unique and and and Bundy also have like when you talk about the different areas, it's like the northern part of Brundi which is you know share boarders Rwanda which is the Cayanza and go to Ze and there is a central part of Boondy which also Um it's another different when it comes to a coffee coming from one area to another one you think you find in my point of you find more lemoned citrus and from one side,

and I find more chocolate and spices from the other side, from the other part of the country. And then there is actually new Ti we also were trying we have recently discover which is more and there a north east part of the country. UM that's more kind like crisp clean, you know in terms of like the taste notes that you can find into the coffee. And and additional to these, you know Spruckling a city back that you usually would

expect to our finding some very well prepared coffee from Bounding. Wow, God love it. So it's it's very interesting because I also think that's you know, each coffee in my point of view, each of the different coffee. Um of our coffee has a home. So they always they always tell you, even like you know, high end coffee to just not so high end coffee. Each coffee has a home. But

it really I think that's we are. We are very lucky um to do from the fact that you know, I really I choose why it sell my coffee too most of the times. So I do know people who understand we're going to you know, treat the coffees and wild who also aligned with our value because above or beyond just the quality, which this is the first and foremost you know for my business and has always been UM that I always you know, strive for um. You know, companies also have to be alligned in terms of lack

our values and when we understand. So I tried to kind of like you know, pick you know, based on that and um because to me, producing the great coffee from Burundi and bring the great coffee from Bundy to the world market is so wonderful. But what else are we doing for the people? And what are the politics of land and Burundi Because you mentioned earlier it's a really densely populated country, so what is the relationship among the citizens and the farmers, So the politocademics are around

the land. Is is very interesting because I'm chuckling because one of my belief and one of the things that my company is very well known for is the fact that we empower women. Um. And the reason how we have like a very small program on empowering women is because women bound they usually you know, did not have

right to on land. Um. So if um you know, uh, you know, if her husband or father ahead I'm man who's like ahead of the of the of the of the household passed away, um, the wife does not acquire ownership of the land. However, women in Burundi are expected and also do are the one who do work the land. They work the land. Um. They are the one who provide fe wh who do all the work and you know in the house. But not they're not not just necessary the one who went up by you know, owning

that land. So in most you know cases in Burundi, when when the husband passed away, the sons you know get ownership of the land and then um in this case, if it doesn't have the sons, then you know, maybe the brother gets you know, ownership of the land. Um. So it's it's very it was very difficult for me growing up and actually seeing this, the fact that the women were the one who are doing all the work. Um, you know, in the background, but we're actually the one

who have you know, no rights to anything, right. I think they always work is to really make this industry sustainable, um as much as possible. UM. I strive in my work and what I do with gently coffee to make it as sustainable as possible. The coffee that I'm trading today only focused on Burundi because it's what I believe that needs to be done and to be able to

help my people. So in my in the ideal world for me is just look at the way to actually make this industry sustainable, uh, you know, encourage and bring the youth, you know along, empower women because when you empower women, more things can be done for the families and for the communities in my point of view, and what I had also experienced and also incentifies in quality

and then pay the farmers the right price. And that's something that's it's very hard to be discussing about right now when the ce market is rounding one, you know, one one and wanting some change dollar um, you know, per pound. So it's very very hard and and most it actually don't even understand. Some people think that fur trade anything that says for a trade that's the best value. But actually fur trade is just like a few cents

above the sea market. Uh. We always in our case, we always pay way above and beyond you know, for tress, So we don't even touch the fur trade part because we are already above and beyond the fur trade price are ours of today. Um, But I think that's really working hard to make sure that the farmers are being compensated right for the you know, the product that they

work so hard for is extremely important. Is what I had a chance to actually see the you know, just a wide variety of amazing coffee that were produced from bund And and the potential really at that time for me, I realized the potential that you know, something willing to be done can be done with coffee to you know, even help the people bold even further. Absolutely, absolutely, I

think it's very confusing with labeling. It's so frustrating to see a lot of well intentioned can sumers who want to do the right thing, but continue to support brands that really aren't worthy of that support because we've been trained to think that these labels are actually what we need to support full stop, and that's just not accurate.

Is there more appropriate label? To signal to customers that this is a company that pays above fair trade or is there a way for us as consumers to try and support exporters and intermediaries like yourself who are more deeply invested in the well being of the workers. Basically, I'm just asking how can we be better coffee consumers? Actually, like you said, what the consumer don't understand? What's consumers just don't understand? And uh um And I'm not trying

to put down for a trade. I think it's it's it's a starting point in my point of view, because I think it's a starting point of creating awareness. Um. So there's so many terminology of being used out there, like you know, direct trade, uh, you know, ethnically um,

sourced um and so forth. But I think that's one just have to you know, to dig deeper, um in my point of view, like a for our company, you know, we you know, I'm from Burundi first and foremost, so I actually I owe my people by choice, you know, you know, I don't have to. You know, there are a lot of people from Bundy who have you know, who left the country and they're not not necessary go back um and to work in their own countries or

do something for their own people. So I think there are some great companies out there who are doing the right thing. But it's a question about really getting educated and actually really doing your own research and trying to find out which one are doing what they said they are doing, and which one are aligned with your value and which one do you want to support, you know,

for that same reason. So I was in graduate school UM here in the Bay Area, and who was setting intercultural studies just you know, I was very interested in and understanding the world and getting to find ways that I could make an impact in the in the world. Lord, I got a job, just like many people working uh in a cafe needed to have a part time job to pay for things. WHA, I was in school UM and there was another guy who was hired to work alongside of me around the same time, and both of

us became friends that he was from Eritrea. The voice you just heard is that of Doug Hewitt. Doug is the owner and founder of nineteen fifty one Coffee in Berkeley, California, And he began to tell me his story of fleeing Irratree and why he had fled and fleeing into Sudan and making his way across the Sahara Desert into Libya and making his way across the Mediterranean. This whole long story before he finally was able to reach the United States to settle. Until those here and I had I

had never heard a story like that before. This was in two thousand and seven, and it suddenly opened my mind up to a world that I didn't know much about. Beginning to know him and getting to know his community kind of introduced me to two refugees. One Coffee is a nonprofit specialty coffee organization that supports the Bay Area refugee and as Sili community through providing job training and

employment opportunities. Yeah, so we we are a cafe. We actually have three cafes for a coffee company UM, and we also have a Barisa training programs that we operate to trains obviously trains people to be barista's UM. Potentially about twenty five of those people UM can work in our cafes and the positions that we have. But then we also have a network of other coffee companies here in the San Francisco Bay Area UM that will also

hire our graduates. Because that was something in the process of creating our own cafes that we came across is here in these specialty coffee community in the Bay Area, there is a need for for barruss, there's a need for for workers and especially people who want to be in that industry and too so to make that a

career UM. And so we kind of came across that were allis we were in in the right place and the right you know, the thing where we have an industry that is in need of people that want to be there and to be there for a while UM. And we also have this pool of people who are new to the country who are looking for a place to be in a place where they can put down roots and really start a career. We work at. The largest number of people that we that we work with

are actually from er A Trea and East Africa. And if anyone knows anything about Ero Trea, they have a very close shared history UM with Ethiopia, which is Etia was the birthplace of coffee UM and has a very extensive coffee culture M and that is also shared with Erra Trea UM and so very often for Aerotrea and sitting down over a cup of coffee is not a five, ten,

twenty minute or an hour experience. Very often it can be a three hour experience of intentionally roasting the coffee in front of your guest and sharing the experience of the aroma of the coffee as a rose, and then the making of the coffee and intentionally going through the three cups of coffee and going through, you know, a process. And so for you know, for us making a cup of coffee and being detailed in the process, to someone from ere A Tria that like, this is this is

how you're supposed to doke coffee. Coffee is not something that you just drink, you know, on a limb when you're running the work like it is a process, it is a ceremony, um. And so I think, you know, very awesome. It's just it's finding those connecting points. Whether it's someone from ere A Trea who who understands the detail of coffee and the elegance of coffee and you know,

at its core, um. But then with people who grew up in cultures you know, Afghanistan where the key and the use of saffron and things is you know, is also in that same way, it's a very high quality, high luxury thing. That's something that you you do when you are being hospitable towards your guests and finding those connecting points of each person in each culture to communicate that process, and you find it ultimately that idea of

serving people well is a very universal thing. Fourth wave coffee, fair trade, fair wages. As is so often the case in the verbiage of sustainability, much of the language is lost in translation between who is being marketed to and who is being supported. The resources almost certainly end up directed towards the consumers and far less so towards those on the ground who create all of the value. And within that language, so much is communicated that goes beyond

the words that are used. I'm thinking about the US political language and the difference between working class and poor sustainability and the kinds of brands who promoted and the places that purvey it. Further the gap not only between those who benefit and those who perpetuate, but also the

gap between who is welcome and who isn't. Much of the work that we present is about reclamation, because we recognize the power of the kind of inclusion that moves beyond language and instead is rooted in the truth of one's own history. Knowing coffee comes from Africa and African people supersedes the superlatives that are used to sell coffee. It doesn't mean that we should abandon earnest efforts of collective improvement. It just means that we should absorb that

history and in doing so, whose language we prioritize. Reclaiming our stories closes the gap between producer and consumer and who gets to indulge versus who must labor, and particularly for specialty coffee, changes the images of the faces that we see when we think about ownership, leisure, knowledge and craft.

We'd like to thank our guest today Kaba Conti of Red Bay Coffee in Fruitvale, California, to Janine jon Zuma a Rohan from j MP Coffee, and to all of the incredible women coffee farmers that she works with in Burundi. Thank you to Doug Hewitt of nineteen one Coffee in Oakland, California. You can learn more about this episode in our guest at wet Stone Magazine dot com, Backslash podcast, or on i G at wet Stone Magazine. We'll be back next week with our second to last episode of the season

where we'll be talking about the morality of meat. I'm your host, Steven Siderfield. We'll see you back here next week with more from the world of food from around the world Peace. We'd also like to thank our incredible podcast producer Selene Glazier. Selene, you are the best. To our editor and wet Stone partner and director of video

David Alexander in London. I appreciate you, Dave. Thanks to our wet Stone production intern Quentin Bow and last but not least, my business partner Mel She who makes all things at Whetstone possible. Thank you Mel. We'd also like to thank our partners and production at I Heart Radio to Gabrielle Collins, our supervising producer and executive producer Christopher Haciotis. We'll be back next week with more from the world

of food worldwide. Point of Origin listeners, As you know, rating and reviewing our podcast is the very best way for more people to find out about our very important work at Whetstone, So please, if you're able, we would really appreciate a positive review in rating on Apple podcast that will help others like yourself find out about Point of Origin.