Hello and welcome to episode number 96 of the Point of Convergence podcast as always I am your host, ExoAcademian. While the notion of extraterrestrial life has long captivated the public imagination, certain expectations regarding how such life might interact with us have also proven problematic.
Primarily that's because being the stubborn species we are, when data doesn't conform to our expectations we tend to either ignore it, explain it away, or assume it has been gathered incorrectly, or as even the result of fraudulent reporting. This issue has been paramount in the matter of the modern UFO phenomenon because many elements of reports that have arisen from eyewitness testimony contain elements that stretch our expectations, often to the breaking point and beyond.
At turn that has been put forward to explain the various elements that stretch our expectations of how sophisticated non-terrestrial intelligence would interact with us even to the point of defying rational understanding altogether is high-strangeness. Here we see crossover into another domain that of general paranormality.
Now while we modern Westerners would like to keep these bodies of data completely separate, after all why would extraterrestrials act in ways that are reminiscent of apparitions and ultra-guys phenomena where so the conventional thinking goes, the reality is that these two kinds of data seem to regularly co-arise in people's experience. And that being the case, it would be unwise to let our pre-existing biases prevent us from seeing linkages to clearly exist in the raw data itself.
Speaking of crossover between domains that tend to be kept distinct in our modern notions of how reality works, we also see startling parallels between the UFO phenomenon and humanity's most ancient expressions of religion, collectively referred to as shamanism. The most glaring similarity is a rise in the experience of reality people report in both shamanistic journeys and encounters with supposed aliens, quote unquote, during contact experiences reported as part of the modern UFO phenomenon.
In both cases people report experiencing the encounter in a seemingly alternate realm or non-ordinary state of consciousness. The question that emerges pertaining to the UFO phenomenon, if these really are space aliens, quote unquote, that is physical beings arising from some distant star system, then why would the encounters involve so much overlap with the vision quest encounters reported in shamanism? Why one can certainly attempt to explain away these parallels in the bodies of data?
A more open-minded, objective and sincere perspective might very well land on the notion that these clues are telling us something fundamental about the nature of reality itself, something that seems to inevitably lead towards a reframing of what it means to be a sentient lifeform, living in a supposedly quote unquote physical universe, as defined under the
dictates of scientific materialism. The what precisely is the nature of the overlap between domain-slash topics such as shamanism and experiences that fall within the modern UFO phenomenon and where might the implications of these alignments lead us? These are the mind-stretching and paradigm-collapsing matters we'll seek to delve more deeply into, and this, the 96th episode of the Point of Convergence podcast.
As we begin this week's episode, I'd just like to remind everyone that if you'd like to support this podcast and in so doing also gain access to all of my content, which includes not just Point of Convergence and the Middle Frames, but also OTC Squared and various Feature Series, as well as gaining access to my Private Discord server, as well as a new feature that kicks off
next week that being a live Q&A session that will happen regularly. You can do so by becoming a patron at patreon.com slash exoacademyon or by becoming a subscriber on Spotify. All right, with that preamble aside, let's move into this week's topic. In this week's episode, we're going to look into the parallels between shamanism, again humanity's most ancient form of religion, and encounters had within the modern UFO phenomenon. Why would this parallel
exist and what might it be saying to us about the nature of ultimate reality? As we kick off here, I'd also like to give my usual disclaimer that I think that what we referred to as the modern UFO phenomenon actually entails different kinds of beings arising from different kinds of origin sources altogether. Again, I think we do a disservice to the data and to our quest to understand what's
going on by collapsing at all or trying to find one meta pattern within all of the data. I think again we have different kinds of beings from different kinds of origins interacting with us, and we're better served by looking for individual patterns within the totality to try to identify the different kinds of interactions. Certainly some kinds of interactions seem more technological in nature, while others seem to be more like mystical experiences described in
ancient shamanistic traditions and other religious traditions as well. But again, sometimes that distinction is not so easy to delineate, and ultimately if reality is mentational in nature, in other words if idealism is a better description as a model of ultimate reality than physicalism,
which I think is almost certainly the case, really at this point, physicalism is not just unsupported by the data, but largely untenable, then really hard-line distinctions between the technological and the mystical are misguided to say the least, and I think much of the material we get into today will demonstrate that. So let's get into it. We're going to be talking about the crossover
between encounters had within shamanism and encounters had within the UFO phenomenon. Again, this has a lot to do with cultural expectations, cultural framing, and the modern west we're going to assume some of encounter with some kind of other has to be something perhaps extra terrestrial, because that is the last frontier to be explored, or so the modern conventional paradigm would suggest.
But again, the point here is if that paradigm is misguided, woefully misguided, completely barking up the wrong tree as it were, then really these distinctions disappear and even these expectations around what the remaining frontiers to be explored are also significantly change. Now regarding this issue of the remaining frontiers to be explored, a term that has been banted about more recently in the UFO phenomenon community is that of inter-dimensional as opposed
to extraterrestrials. This speaks to perhaps the idea of parallel universes, but often the term is used in a kind of broad way to describe things we just don't understand yet. In other words, it's more that the evidence doesn't seem to be supporting the notion that these are just extraterrestrials as we would expect them to be, although again that might be part of it.
But really will use this term inter-dimensional, we're allowing for something beyond what we would expect, something that stretches our paradigms of what is possible and what the various origin source possibilities could be. And this led me to post a following on social media recently. I said quote, when we say inter-dimensional, we really still have no idea how to map that to conventional models with specificity. The term is becoming a placeholder for quote,
something we don't understand yet. Don't mistake the regular use of a term for a truly comprehensive understanding of what it ultimately points to. Unquote. And that's the key here, again, according to how far we're willing to stretch our imagination in conventional circles, a term like inter-dimensional gets introduced and even people like Jacques Vallet introduced this back in the 1970s. Because those notions were emerging in science that there could be frontiers
beyond just the broad expanse of our physical universe. But again, the point I want to drive home here is that really this term as is being used right now in the public and even by some of our congresspeople who are trying to investigate this matter is more like a placeholder. There's no specificity about what this refers to. It's just saying that the usual players in terms of the possibilities don't seem adequate, don't seem sufficient as we learn more about this phenomenon.
And that in itself is really interesting and I think serves as a kind of middle point in our march towards better understanding from what this means. All that is to say we are still in the process of gathering data and considering how that data would impact our underlying model of reality. That's where we should be. That's really where we are if we're honest right now in our process. Now again, today we're going to be thinking about shamanism and its overlap with the
modern UFO phenomenon. And here again we're reminded of what we discussed last time. Namely the common contact across time may have been missed because of language-last-cultural framing differences. And again, really when we get past the language and the surface veneer we see remarkable overlap in these different kinds of traditions that describe perhaps
the same kinds of encounters in very different ways. Now for those of you that tuned into the last episode, episode 95 and if you haven't listened to that I would suggest perhaps you listen to that before this episode because they kind of dovetail together. We drew largely from a book titled Secret Machines, Gods, Volume 1 of the Gods Man and War trilogy by Peter Levent and Tom DeLong. We're going to be drawing from that book again as well as even more primarily from a book titled
Shamanism and Alien Abductions, a comparative study by Simon Bryan Harvey Wilson. This was actually a thesis that he put together as part of his postgraduate program and it's one of the most comprehensive comparisons between shamanism and the modern UFO phenomenon that currently exists. Let's now jump into a section from Secret Machines, Gods, Volume 1 of Gods Man and War, to discuss how shamanism plays in here. Quote, is there any substantive difference between the two
from the point of view of consciousness? In other words, did the ancient peoples perceive a humanoid presence associated with aerial phenomena in a way that is close to us moderns? And this phenomenon partakes of effects that are psychological, we might say parapsychological, in terms that are
better described using the vocabulary of religion and mysticism. We are confronted with the possibility that persons within different cultural contexts will perceive it differently and may see the phenomenon manifesting in different ways or at least interpret it according to a vocabulary available to them which, ironically, would be misinterpreted by later commentators
and let their own understanding of the terms. From what we know as shamanism, particularly those forms for which we have more recent information from anthropologists and travelers in the 19th and 20th centuries, contact with spiritual forces is an interval part of the practice as is the experience of flight. This flight might take place to celestial regions that can just as easily take place to underworld regions, quote unquote, ie below the earth.
Now I just want to draw your attention to that key point being made by LeVenda and DeLong in this book in that section we just read from. They are saying that because language and cultural differences frame these matters differently, ways that this was described in the ancient past might be missed in terms of being recognized as being part and parcel with the modern UFO phenomenon
because those descriptions alone distract us from the underlying reality and that because we have our own modern myth, those by which we describe these kinds of contact experiences, we are talking about two different kinds of vocabulary, two completely different frames of reference and it's those different frames of reference that cloud this reality from being seen as it really is.
That is to say we missed the fact that underlyingly we're talking about mystical contact, contact as seems to happen again in an alternate state of consciousness or an alternate realm very often both for experiences of the modern UFO phenomenon as well as these ancient encounters described in shamanism. Now before we proceed any further for those of you who might not be so
familiar with shamanism, let's begin with this quick overview. A shaman is typically defined as a spiritual and ceremonial practitioner who is believed to have the ability to connect with the spirit world in order to heal, receive guidance and commune with spiritual entities. The practice of shamanism is found in various cultures around the world although specific beliefs and practices can vary widely. Key characteristics and roles associated with shaman's include, number one,
spiritual intermediary. Shaman's are often considered intermediaries between the human and spirit realms, they may communicate with spirits, deedes or other supernatural beings on behalf of their community and here I would ask you to consider different well-known experiencers in modern times who serve also as kind of intermediaries between these others who are giving warning to our civilization very often by the way, which is also similar to shamanism and these more ancient
encounters described in shamanism. Okay getting back to the description of a shaman, number two, a healer. Shaman's are frequently recognized for their healing abilities. This can involve physical, emotional and spiritual healing, rituals, ceremonies and the use of herbs or other
traditional methods may be employed in the healing process. Now again I want to point you to someone like Chris Bledso who after his encounters seemed to have healing powers and many people around the world have written him even set him pieces of clothing or what not or pictures so he could pray for them because he seemingly has these powers only after having encountered these others in this kind of other realm. Again think about the parallels here in how shaman's are described
often as healers. Number three, ceremonial leader. Shaman's often lead rituals and ceremonies that are central to the spiritual and social life of their community. These ceremonies may involve music, dance, chanting and the use of sacred objects. Now again here we're speaking of kinds of technologies, different protocols that are used to make these connections with these various others. Think about how we do that with the modern Yufloh phenomenon. Think about the protocols
put forward in CE5 or HICE, human-initiated contact experiences. Think about how that also is a kind of ceremonial procedure leading to contact. Number four, divination. Shaman's may practice divination to gain insights into the future, receive guidance or understand the cause of current issues. Divination methods can include the interpretation of dreams, reading of signs in nature
or using specific tools like bone stones or cards. Now here I will remind you of the many occasions where we've talked about the convergence between the Yufloh phenomenon and phenomena such as near death experiences or out of body experiences. Now I've discussed in the past someone named Elizabeth Cron who had a near death experience after being struck by lightning. Now after her journey into a kind of other world you could argue she kind of perceived that she
was in her understanding of what heaven might be like. But importantly after she came back she had developed free cognitive dreaming capabilities. She would dream about the future and this would be demonstrable things like playing crashes and whatnot. Again think about how that mirrors what Shaman's would encounter after having crossed over into these other realms and then coming back
with information that would help the tribe etc. Next we have Solward Trevel. In some Shamanic traditions it is believed that illness or spiritual imbalance can result from the loss of a person's soul. Shaman's being engaged in Solward Trevel rituals to bring back lost aspects of a person's soul. Again this really comes down to a kind of translation to some sort of energetic process. Energy is central to this entire matter against something I teach regularly in essence of being.
Keep this in mind. Look past the language and think about the underlying realities being described here. Next we have ecstatic experiences. Shaman's often enter altered states of consciousness through various means such as drumming, chanting, dancing or the use of hallucinogenic substances. These altered states are thought to facilitate communication with the spirit world.
Again think about CE5 or high protocols. Think again about how this is about using various protocols to journey to these other kinds of realms or to enter into these other kinds of states of consciousness where contact with these other kinds of beings exist. Again in an overarching sense
consider the notion of idealism. Consider that perhaps what we have here are not different realms of reality so much as overlapping and interpenetrating dreamscapes and that these different protocols allow us to move beyond our usual parameters of physical quote unquote reality and interact with these different kinds of dreamscapes. Again the notion here is that all these different realms are actually dreamscapes perhaps held in the mind of God or as Bernardo Castro calls it
mind at large. Now there do exist other parallels between ancient Shamanic traditions and the modern UFO phenomenon. One of these is that in these ancient traditions Shaman's often came from the same family. In other words there was this generational continuation of Shamanistic capacity. So again the
key here is that these people are not just picked at random from the population. They have specific giftings perhaps because they've already journeyed into another realm or perhaps because they have it in their genetic makeup or whatever the underlying energetic configuration that gets expressed
as genetic makeup would suggest. Again what's interesting is that we have multiple generations of abductees in the modern UFO phenomenon and in these ancient traditions we have this continuation across this genetic line of Shamanistic capabilities that is an ability to see beyond the usual
parameters of physical reality and our usual sense perceptions. Now one key distinction sociologically in terms of how these people are regarded in these ancient traditions Shaman's were recognized as key leaders as people that helped the tribe that helped to bring back key messages from these other realms to help them help the entire community moving forward. But of
course that's not at all how experiences have been treated by modern society. And this is spoken to again in this book Shamanism and Alien Abduction's A Comparative Study by Simon Bryan Harvey Wilson. Quenna again from that book quote, the Shaman are expected to undergo appropriate training to become other world travelers or living connections between the spirit realm and normal reality. Although sometimes dangerous their role is a valued one and Shaman's with powerful healing abilities are
highly prized. In social terms their work has a recognized and productive function. On the other hand in Western societies people who think they have been abducted by aliens have been regarded as suffering from some form of personality defect or mental illness. Although that may now be changing slightly as the subject becomes more widely publicized many addicts nevertheless prefer to remain anonymous although a small number integrate their experiences in a positive fashion and are able
to publicize them with few ill effects. Now that section right there spoke to the different sociological embrace of Shaman's versus modern experiencers. Again we're entertaining the idea here that at least some experiencers represent the same kind of function that Shaman served in ancient traditions even though they are not greeted with the same kind of respect and admiration.
Now of course this speaks to different cultural framings. Now interestingly this week I had a conversation with someone in a meeting where they described actually being the person who had a conversation with John Mack back in the day and first suggested to him that he look into encounters described in indigenous traditions that mirrored much of the modern UFO phenomenon and up until this point no one had made this connection at least very few had made the connection and it wasn't widely
known but this person suggested to John that he goes speak to Native Americans different indigenous cultures around the world and learn that actually this is a common part of their understanding that they've been interacting with these beings all along and because they're mythos does it reject such notions and there's more of an openness to the notion of different realms they actually have this as part of their social fabric and again it's recognized admired certainly valuable
and quote unquote normal. Let's now jump into another section from this same book this comparative
study between Shamanism and the UFO phenomenon. Quote Shamanism is thought to have originated in Siberia and Central Asia but the term is now used to refer to similar practices in many parts of the world such as the Amazon basin North America, Oceana and Africa it is believed that Shamanism is the oldest form of religious activity with evidence dating back thousands of years such as cave paintings and carvings of people dressed in animal skins resembling outfits still used by
some shaman's today. Joan Halifax writes that quote a common thread seems to connect all shaman's across the planet and awakening to other orders of reality the experience of ecstasy and an opening up of visionary realms from the essence of the Shamanic mission unquote continuing quote the traditional shaman may simultaneously be the local healer social worker, fervoyant and magician
as well as guardian and to a certain extent creator of a tribe's mythology. Most of these skills derive from shaman's ability to enter what they believe is the spirit world via trans or altered
state of consciousness often induced by drumming. The cultural beliefs in shamanistic societies all over the world that support this behavior are that a spirit world does exist that shaman's can liaise between it and normal reality and that it is inhabited by spirits who will help heal various sicknesses at the shaman's bidding that these beliefs do exist is not disputed by most
anthropologists who study shamanism. It is important to emphasize that having documented the similarities in shamanistic behavior around the world most anthropologists now believe that all shaman's are following the same set of core beliefs with local cultural variations. As Narvi points out, it was Messia Eleate in his classic book Shamanism archaic techniques of ecstasy who identified astonishing similarities in the practices and concepts of shaman's the world over.
Wherever these technicians of ecstasy operate they specialize in a trans during which the soul is believed to leave the body and ascend to the sky or descend to the underworld. They all speak a secret language which they learn directly from the spirits by imitation. They consider these spirits to have come from the sky and to have created life on earth.
Now again I want to remind you of our conversation last time talking about different religious groups and how they also had this notion and how we also see in various religious traditions around the world Sumerian, Acadian, Babylonian etc. these different kinds of practices and understandings and symbology that they all shared in common even though they were existing on different parts of the planet and therefore weren't influencing each other. And that of course prompts the question
how then did these similarities arise these parallels. Again one could make the argument a very strong argument that it's because of these encounters with beings in other realms that they learn these kinds of traditions these kinds of teachings this kind of symbology and that's why we see it
represented across the planet even around groups that are diverse in terms of their cultural background their geographic background etc. This again speaks to the validity of this the veracity of this that really these are real encounters had with real beings and again this raises interesting questions about ontology but again even more so questions about the nature of reality itself.
Now another parallel that exists between ancient shamanism as well as the more modern UFO phenomenon is the way that the people who encounter these kinds of others and these other realms of existence come back transformed and I mean permanently transformed they have different views on reality itself and their relationship with other people the planet and the surrounding
cosmic community. This is spoken to also in this book quote Joan Halifax describes the feeling that shaman have to educate those around them the impulse to see and describe the structure of the cosmos everywhere exists for those people whose psyches have been open to the experience of
non-ordinary realities however the interview participants also pointed out that there was a delicate balance between feeling that one has a role to play in teaching about a different perspective on reality and feeling overwhelmed about the enormity of the task after realizing that so many people simply do not see things that way as Laura's puts it quote most people are still a sleep unquote this also means that many abdued peas have a limited circle of friends because as
Helen laments a lot of people still look at you as if you are a nutter. Similarly Angela says that most of us are asleep according to them the aliens and we need to wake up so they are assisting she further explains that understanding my new experiences and being able to integrate them has
been a really big challenge and it can be difficult because you know there is a society saying okay that physical is real and the other stuff isn't so that has been a challenge to find a balance and be able to live in both at once Patricia too describes the enormous challenges of
integrating her new expanded perspective into her daily life I have absolutely changed every facet of who I am through these experiences so the type of people I relate to are very different I have now a very different view of life she also describes how sometimes she feels so frustrated with
having to be different and having to carry a sense of responsibility and knowing that things are not right here and that we need to fix them and a similar vein Lawrence adds that sometimes it can be a little bit sad because you realize that you can see perhaps a different way of living than other people but they're not really concerned because they're ignorant Karen feels the isolation of her position it is very hard to relate to other people who do not see the world like that that would be
the main thing that I have found very difficult the isolation created by having that different perspective on the other hand Nancy who has a support of husband and children who are being abducted relates how her experiences have expanded her worldview to the extent that she now believes that
anything is possible absolutely anything even magic Harner 1990 expresses sympathy for those that encounter problems convincing others about their shamanic experiences the person's most prejudiced against a concept of non-ordinary reality are those who have never experienced it
this might be termed cognizantism the analog and consciousness of ethnocentrism unquote and the key point here is that these experiencers have much in common with shamanic tradition and how they see things differently how they have a different understanding of how we
should live after having these encounters with these various others and these other realms of reality a little earlier I described the experience of Elizabeth Cron who had a near death experience while walking into a synagogue in Houston when she was struck by lightning and afterward she had
different capabilities that came online because of her experience again after having this experience in what she perceived as a kind of heaven the key point here being that it was after that experience and then alternate realm or that alternate state of consciousness again we struggle to find the
right language here but regardless in that non-ordinary quote unquote state experience she obtained information or capacities was changed in some fundamental way so that when she returned to this world quote unquote she had capacities like free cognitive understanding she would often dream the future again as I mentioned earlier interestingly this is a very common aspect of shamanistic encounters now in previous episodes we've discussed at length the free foundation data in terms of
the dr. eger Mitchell free foundation and how they looked into the commonalities the parallels between different kinds of what they call contact modalities near death experiences out of body experiences contact with apparitions contact with seemingly alien beings the sighting of UFOs etc many times
these experiences had this one thing in common that afterwards these people had different capacities than the rest of the population capacities that would fall under extra sensory perception the book also speak to this and let's get into that section now quote to assess the
degree to which they had been spiritually transformed by their experiences the interview participants were asked whether they could now sense invisible energies or alien or spiritual entities such a skill is an essential part of shamanism for example leade notes the extreme importance of spirit
visions in all varieties of shamanistic initiations seeing a spirit either in dream or awake is a certain sign that one has in some sort obtained a spiritual condition that is that one has transcended the profane condition of humanity angelic claims that some of the aliens are always
around even though they're not in physical form I still perceive them and I can hear them speaking telepathically so there is a communication happening all the time in her healing work Cheryl consents the presence of entities from her physical reactions like the goose bumps like the hair
on the back up your neck standing up that sort of thing but it's also more of a sense of knowing and musingly she also reports that some of her clients unknowingly bring various entities with them I have a full house sometimes sometimes I have one person in a chair in a room full of all lookers
and audience Betty can feel entities around her which she feels maybe they're just to observe she also reports that they can appear sometimes at the corner of the eye like a shadow another physical symptom can be a temperature change in myself my body heat will go up and if
it's a negative sensation my body temperature can go down Helen whose partner has also had abduction experiences can also feel the presence of invisible entities the other week we did a healing on a friend and we went into her bedroom and the air was very dense thick and when we found
where the energy source was it was very clammy and wet Nancy knows when there's another interdimensional being around or spirit person and Karen consents the presence of entities in my everyday environment but does not often see them however if I was reading any extraterrestrial
type books I feel a lot of presences on those occasions Karen believes that they are there almost reaffirming what I'm reading Ruth sometimes paints the various beings that she senses around the house they seem to like being drawn and painted so much so that sometimes they tell me
to go get a pen and pencil unquote now as a couple of parallels here I'd also like to point out that I've also had these kinds of experiences in a previous episode I mentioned seeing kind of shadow beings and sometimes seeing things out of the corner of my eye this is very much what's
been described here as well and like this situation here where they're talking about books and how there's kind of this encouragement or certain kinds of investigations or certain angles of pursuit I also very much feel that as well that's part of my experience and often informs the various
subjects matter that I end up investigating and going into in these various podcast episodes now various researchers who've looked into the parallels between shamanism and the uofo phenomenon often point out that some of the experiences that people have with so-called aliens
seem to mirror initiation ceremonies found in shamanism even Jacques Vallet has made this point in some of his books I like to include a quote now again from this book shamanism and alien abductions a comparative study quote some uofo researchers euphologist claimed that being abducted
by aliens can be compared with shamanic initiation experiences in traditional societies in that both types of experience may be similarly transformative leading to a more spiritual or animistic worldview a deep concern for the environment and the development of paranormal abilities such as
healing unquote now in the next section of the book that I want to get into this person goes into John Maxx history and how he really pioneered a more deep dive into some of the ways that this defies modern conventions about reality quoting from the book again quote one of the best known
academic researchers in this field and a professor of psychiatry at the Harvard Medical School John Macx asserts that the alien abduc piece he has studied are not suffering from any known form of mental illness and are therefore probably reporting authentic experiences Harvard
University's negative reaction to Maxx work with abduc piece perhaps illustrates why there is so little academic research in this field after the publication of his 1994 book on abductions amid rumors of his imminent dismissal the university convened the committee of investigation
which resulted in a letter from the dean saying that I should do my work meeting the standards of the Harvard Medical School while discussing the meaning of the abduction experiences described in his 1994 book Mac mentions various spiritual and shamanistic similarities and in reviewing
the UFO literature available up to its publication he writes quote none of this work in my view has come to terms with the profound implications of the abduction phenomenon for the expansion of human consciousness the opening of perception to realities beyond the manifest physical world
and the necessity of changing our place in the cosmic order if the earth's leading systems are to survive the human onslaught unquote continuing with the books quote here quote Mac's second book on the abduction phenomenon passport to the cosmos appears to be the most relevant other research
written so far it pays particular attention to the transformative effects of abduction encounters and goes into more detail about the shamanic connection in his chapter shaman symbols and archetypes Mac notes the comparison with shamanic journeys and how many of the images described in abduction
narratives seem to be of archetypal significance it has long been claimed by euphologist that on occasions aliens disguise themselves in a variety of ways perhaps to lessen the trauma to abduction and or perhaps to illustrate the richness and depth of their capacity to communicate
this tendency to indulge in screen imagery as it is called could also be seen as a deceptive tactic or as an illustration of the extent to which some abductees are merely projecting their inner concerns onto the situation whatever the reason it certainly makes it difficult to suggest
explanations for these events it may therefore be of assistance to note the apparent similarity between those images reported in shamanism and those seen during abduction as Mac has done specifically he discusses the symbolism of various types of animals or animal spirits and
quote symbols of birth rebirth death and transcendence in the book Mac also interviews some shaman's who themselves claim to have been abducted by aliens they point out that something akin to the alien abduction experience has been integral to their spiritual traditions for generations
and that they trying to regard alien beings as yet another manifestation of the spirit realm while Mac does not appear to have set out primarily to demonstrate the abduction shamanism connection his most recent work shows that such similarities do exist in the experiences of those abductees
whom he has interviewed unquote and I just want to make sure you caught that there that not only have these various shamanistic traditions encountered others in other realms but they too have experienced alien abduction and that in their tradition this is just another
kind of realm another dream scape if you will amongst the overarching reality scape I also think that helps make the point that we shouldn't just reduce the modern UFO phenomenon to shamanistic encounters nor should we reduce shamanistic encounters to just manifestations of the UFO phenomenon
really these are pointed to something more overarching about the nature of reality itself long time listeners of this podcast will by now be very familiar with the research done by the free foundation around an experienced her study and while that is certainly the most expansive
and comprehensive of its kind there were actually other studies that were done previous to this one of the key ones involved the research of doctor Ken Ring and his research is also addressed in this book and again some of the contact modality overlap specifically Ken Ring looked into the
overlap between near death experiences and the UFO phenomenon but again what we're seeing here is overlap between these various contact modalities again that's the term that Rehearnand Descoined as part of the free research quoting now from this book discussing Ken Ring's research quote
another academic who has worked in this field is Ken Ring a professor of psychology at the University of Connecticut who discusses the results of his study into the similarities between UFO close encounters and near death experiences but also notes their similarity to shamanic
experiences Ring survey did not specifically set out to investigate the shamanic connection but does discuss it in some detail he notes that alien abduction experiences are often recalled as being dreamlike that they can be frightening and that they frequently have childhood antecedents
which may result in abduction is developing an extended range of human perception beyond normally recognized limits he also discovered that after their experiences abduction is reported significant psychophysical changes such as increased sensitivity to electromagnetic fields
mood fluctuations increased information and processing capacity and the development of various paranormal abilities Ring devotes a chapter to beliefs and value shifts following extraordinary encounters noting that his subjects reported significant increases in their
appreciation for life as well as social and ecological matters the also reported an increased interest in spiritual issues accompanied by a belief that what had happened to them was part of a general expansion or development of human consciousness discussing the meaning of these
experiences Ring notes that quote abduction may represent the particularly contemporary form of shamanic journey one that fits and is phrased in terms of a highly technological society that has already turned its imaginative attention to starflight Ring concludes with a suggestion
that the increasing fascination with and immersion in the domain of extraordinary encounters may well pressage the shamanizing of modern humanity like many other researchers ring favors the other world theory to explain close encounters and adopts the term the imaginal realm which
was originally proposed by a renowned French Islamic scholar Henry Corbin in 1972 accessible by altered states of consciousness Ring writes that quote not only is the imaginal realm ontologically real it is also a world that has formed dimension and most important
for us persons or entities rings other world conclusions are of relevance to this research because they closely near shamanistic beliefs however it must be recalled that his research goal was only to compare alien abductions and mere death experiences his subject questionnaire
while comprehensive in that it contained questions designed to elicit subjects religious and spiritual beliefs did not specifically set out to compare abduction experiences with shamanic ones unquote so clearly thus far in this episode we've seen demonstrated the remarkable overlap
in elements between shamanistic journeys and encounters with supposed aliens as part of the modern eupho phenomenon so we see much of the data is overlapping we see parallels everywhere I think that should be clear by this point but I also want to bring in one example it speaks to a
direct one-to-one relationship between shamanistic encounters or shamanistic ceremonial kind of practices and what people end up encountering afterwards this speaks to the experience of my good friend shanade wellahead who you may remember I discussed recently on liminal frames as someone
who had an experience that then synchronistically inspired an experience that I have now what's very interesting about shanade's experience is that she had no interest in uphology zero interest in aliens uphos none of that she was a Buddhist practitioner historically as she went to Peru to take
part in a ayahuasca ceremony led by a traditional shaman so again she had no interest in uphos she went to Peru to have a very authentic experience with a traditional shaman in a traditional culture now as part of the shamanistic journey some of you may know that you ingest ayahuasca
which is a drink that is made from a plant whose key ingredient psychoactive ingredient is GMG we also know from this podcast that DMT can also induce experience with other kinds of realms and other kinds of beings now the first two times nothing happened she hadn't taken enough apparently
on the third attempt taking this ayahuasca she was suddenly taken into a different realm altogether and to her immediate shock and surprise she found herself on border upho encountering aliens aliens that seemed to recognize her and seem to be thankful that she had found a way to finally reach them
so again here you have a complete melding of these two different kinds of traditions you have someone who is trying to use ayahuasca as part of a traditional shamanistic ceremony and the encounter they had on the other side of that was with aliens aboard a upho so here we have what we see as
technological craft in our modern society but encountered through a traditional shamanistic ceremony so again this just shows how much our modern conceptions that tends to keep these completely separate is failing to see some overarching aspect about reality by doing so clearly these
collapse into some other kind of truth a truth that is being pointed to by each of these different traditions whether we're speaking of the modern upho phenomenon and how that met those as framed or the ancient shamanistic one sometimes as in this case with shanade you have the two collapsing
into one experience in the very same encounter now when we reflect on these revelations that have come forward in this episode i think the key is to get beyond the sense that what we perceive as our waking state in quote unquote physical reality is fundamentally different and more substantive
than these other realms and or states of consciousness conscious experience is conscious experience full stop and as part of that conscious experience we find a variety of interpenetrating dreamscapes none more real than another and importantly ultimately all part of the same thing
which is to say all expressions of manifestation arising from a regional mind of which all of us and all of them quote unquote arise as well not as afterthoughts but as fractal impressions of source consciousness itself indeed rediscovering this core truth may be the most fundamental point
of this entire enterprise of revelation expressed in eastern and western religions our ancient and continuing shamanistic traditions as well as through experiences with the so-called modern uofo phenomenon and on that note we've come to the close of another edition of the point of
convergence podcast if you'd like to support this podcast you can do so by becoming a patron at patreon.com slash exoacademyon or by subscribing on Spotify but until next time friends from deep within the bluerge mountains of north carolina this is exoacademyon signing out