Salvaging Your Podcast with Dave Jackson

Hi. This is Kyle Bondo, and this is Timothy Kim O'Brien. And today on pod right, we have a special guest. That's right, the hall of famer Dave Jackson is gonna teach us how to salvage our podcast when everything goes wrong. Today on the show is a special guest. Our first interview. Tim and I haven't done any interviews in 20 so so we decided to do something very special for episode 21, and we invited Hall of Famer, podcaster extraordinaire,

Dave Jackson, to join us on the show. Now if you don't know who Dave Jackson is, Dave Jackson is the school of podcasting. He just hit over 660 episodes of his podcast, and it's like his thirtieth podcast. That is amazing. Can you imagine the breath of knowledge someone gains from doing over 30 podcasts with over a million minutes sharing with their audience, that's why this is a very special episode. So without any further ado, let me welcome Dave Jackson. To pot direct.

How are you doing, Dave? I am doing not unwell. Unwell. It's the best kind of thing to be. Yeah. Now I'm doing great. Happy to be here. Fantastic. And we're and because of PodRack kind of deals with the things that go wrong in the podcasting world, we wanted to bring you on because we heard a story.

A story about your 1 of the podcasts you do, podcast rodeo, where you hit publish, and then the most horrible, dreadful thing a podcast where could ever experience happens is you go to hit play and you don't hit your own voice. Yeah. Kinda walk us through kind of what what happened there? What would I like? What's Yeah. It's funny I had because I always listen to the episodes before I upload them. That's because the time you don't is the time when you get into this situation.

So I'm listening back and I try to keep that show clean. What I do now is I bleep out any kind of because I never know what I'm gonna get. It's always somebody show. And in this case, these people said the s word, and I didn't notice it when I listened to it back because I actually talked over it. And I'm like, okay. Just to be safe.

Let's go in and we'll we'll just what I do is I don't even bleep it out. I just I just in this case, I let them say and then I stop. So it's not the whole word. Everybody knows it's kinda where there's dumb things because everybody knows what he said, but I'm still gonna, you know,

cut it out and I couldn't really hear them. So I muted my channel. So I went in, I split the thing, dragged it over, so it was just and we're done great. And I went to awesome. And I exported it, and I did not listen to the finished product. And I and it's like, why would I all I have to do is fix this 1 thing. I just listen to it. It's fine. The volume's fine.

Blah blah blah. Upload. Show notes go go to bed. You wake up in the morning and you wake up with, like, 19 emails of going, did you know? And I'm like, and I and it was still up. I hadn't even closed software and I looked over and I'm like, oh, the dreaded mute button was on. I'm like, so

that was that was my case. And then it was just a matter of, here's here's the fun thing. You want me to kinda go through the scenario here? Yeah. Because we went through the whole thing where where we had I had left channel me and Tim was stereo. And when I published it because I had speakers and I could hear left channels and my speakers just fine, then Tim gives me a call and says, dude, I can't hear you. And because of the I guess, on the phone, only a left channel the left channel doesn't come out of the phone. It's like right channel about the phone. Yeah. That or in some cases, I've had people. It's it's an odd situation

where they were sitting outside like on a patio. And just for some reason, the way they were their micro phones were gonna get our geek on was out of the keys. And so stereo was fine. Mono, they completely just their their audio went to almost nothing. And so in in my case, I was like, because here's the problem. We have 2 places. If you're listed in Spotify, or Google Play Music. God bless them. They make a copy of your file. So here's here are your options. If I now in my case, I use lipson.

And so if I upload the exact same named file, because because in your app, it's looking at you know, we'll just say your file name dot MP3. It's looking at that. So if I fix it, upload it, exact same name, and put it right where all the apps are looking,

than everybody who hasn't downloaded it yet because there's no way that I can go in and grab their, you know, off grab the awful version off their phone. Once it's downloaded, it's congratulations, you have a collector's item. But for everybody going forward, if I name it the exact same thing, It's fine. Everybody would do that. It'll work on the website. Everything is fine except Spotify and Google Play Music. Why? Because they made their own copy.

So now here's the fun part. How do how do I fix that? Well, I would have to upload a file with a different file name. Because then Spotify will look at and go, oh, wait a minute. That's new. It will update your episode to to bring over the new audio. That's the good news. Same thing with Google Play Music. The bad news is is that means the app let's let's just use Apple Podcasts says your file name is your file name dot MP3, and all of a sudden you upload your file name 2 dot MP3,

Well, Apple Podcast is looking at your file name. So when people click play, nothing happens because that file doesn't exist anymore. You've deleted it. You've replaced it. Now that will update eventually, all the other apps, Apple Podcasts, will update and go, oh, wait a minute. There's something changed in the feed here. And it will work. But that means for somewhere 24 hours or less, that won't work in all the other

apps. So for me, this is what I did. In some cases, I if it's not that big a deal, I don't get a huge amount of play on Spotify. I get almost no play on Google Play Music. And to those people, I go, hey, congratulations.

You have the collector's edition. Now this 1, was pretty bad because there's no me in it. It's, you know, you hear me. You hear the intro and the music and everything else and, you know, you probably heard a buzzer about 15 minutes into it. And so I was like, okay. That that I need to to fix. So what I did was I pull I just deleted the old episode and re export it, and then actually put up I just basically copied the original version of it, the show notes and everything. And I just put the phrase repost in the

episode title, which after I could probably go back now and get rid of that because everybody from this point forward doesn't know that there was a booboo But the people on that Monday were like, what's going on? So when they, you know, fire up their app again or later in the afternoon, they look and they see repost repost, they go, oh,

Alright. Dave's Dave's hit that there was something going on and they can listen to it. So that's it's kind of your options, but it's 1 of those times again that I was like,

Well, I I because I tell myself every time, always listen to it before you upload it. Always listen to it before you upload it. And I swear anytime I don't. And it's something stupid like this. You're like, oh, I just need to fix this or that or whatever. Those are the times that you wake up and there's your email. Hey, just wanted to let you know. I'm not trying to be owenie. I just wanna make sure you knew and you're like, I've embarrassed myself in front of my entire audience.

So But it's good to give you feedback though. Did they tell you, like, oh, no. Something's happened. Yeah. That's that's when you start to worries when you download the episode. You're like, wait. My my voice isn't in this and you go to your email and nobody's nobody's my favorite story of that is the the first podcast I did was for musicians. And eventually, it was called the marketing musician podcast. And I had just

run out of steam. I just I I'd been doing it for like, 11 years and how many different ways can you say, you know, listen to your audience, be professional. Don't run out on your bar tab. You know, there's just certain things and I was just like, And plus the music business had completely changed. And so I just started to sputter. And I was like, I used to be every week, and then it was like, twice a month, and it was, like, once a month. It was just slowly

just coming to a a halt. And I actually put out an episode part 1 of this guy named Matt Gibson, and he had, at the time, was really big on Google Plus, which tells you how long ago this was. And I said, part 1, we're we're gonna talk about Google Plus. And then in part 2, it was like a different subject. So that's why I split it into 2. I never published part 2 and I did not get a single email except for Matt going, what happened to part 2?

Like, nobody noticed that I stopped. And so I saw Matt at Podcast Movement. And he's like, yes. I'm the guy that broke the marketing musician. So tell him it's in the vault. You put it Yeah. So that yes. Yes. So when you when you're not getting feedback because you made a mistake, that's when you go, oh, wait a minute. Somebody should have told me that that wasn't working well. That makes a lot of sense.

It's like I think Tim has that that that problem with the the record button you were talking about earlier. Yeah, the task camera, you have to hit the record button twice on that. And this was after neck surgery. So Mike skews was having, you know, A4A3 level cervical fusion and being on ibuprofen and -- Yeah. -- bike it in and bunch of other drugs like that, and a beautiful 3 hour 3 hour interview with local comic book

shop owner here. And thankfully, he's Canadian, loves hockey, Toronto Maple Leaf's fan, which will forgive him for that. But he he agreed to do it again. We set it we set up another appointment and he fell asleep through that 1. So finally, we had to actually go into his comic book store and do the do the episode. That way, with, you know, people coming in and out the whole time getting interrupted.

And that was a marathon session of editing because, you know, every 2 minutes somebody comes in, somebody goes out, somebody comes in, comes out. Did you just say he fell asleep in the interview? Yeah. He fell asleep. He -- For sure. Fell asleep as the interview started. And well, he hadn't he hadn't slept for, like, a day or 2. He's Canadian. I don't know at it. Okay. Cuteen. I'm blaming Cuteen on that. But yeah. No. He actually fell asleep on a vacant. Right as the interview started.

And it was it was a it was a it was a Skype call. So it wasn't face to face, but Got it. Yeah. He he fell asleep through that through that interview. It happens. That's 1 of those things where you find out that it happens, and you're like, no, it doesn't. And then it happens. Yeah. So my go ahead. No. Go ahead. Well, just another fun. I once my background was in training, and I used to train people in the newspaper industry as 1 of my jobs. And I was doing training at the Chicago Tribune.

And the fun thing is newspapers don't close. So, like, you show up and they go, yeah, if you could do training from, like, 8 to 11 and you're like, I dropped to Chicago for 3 hours, then it dawns on you, like, oh, wait. That's 8 in the morning till 11 at night. And I was training the the night crew on this gigantic scanner. And it's me and 1 guy. There's 1 guy on night shift, and he kept falling asleep. And I'm literally sitting right next to him. And he's just, you know, who knows? He could have had a baby something, but I'm talking to him. He's just he's just not enough. And after a while, he nodded off and did not, like, It was like a a knee jerk reaction like he was out. And I was like, what do we do here? You know? And so when he finally woke up, he was kinda, like, knee jerk reaction. I'm like and and that would be it. If you click save, you're all done. And

then I go any questions on that, and he goes, non good. He goes, the manual's here. Right? I'm like, yeah. And he's like, okay. I'm like, alright. I'm out of here. I'm gonna go back to jail. Oh, that's awesome. Well, that's the kind of the the thing where you look at the simple things

in which salvaging your podcast is something that you wanna know everything you wanna know about it. Until you've gone to that point where you don't even realize that it's happened. I don't know another thing that I've done is a lot of times I'll open a previous episode in Livson and then I'll open the new episode and listen. And I'll start cutting and pasting because some things are very similar, like the the your your name title is on it. And then I'll go hit publish and realize that I've just hit publish on the previous 1, walk away, go get a cup of coffee, and come back and be like, oh, no. I just reposted the old 1 and never posted the new 1. Seems like, where is the episode? It's like, I I don't know. I don't know what happened. Yeah. For for me, the thing that I always try to pay attention to is if I'm interviewing

somebody who is my friend. Like, it's not a most of the time, I know people that I'm interviewing. I don't do too many cold ones. But if it was somebody already known and I haven't seen you since I saw you in an event, and we get on and we just start talking, those are the ones that I looked down. I'm like, oh, I never hit record. And that's

Usually, I catch that quick, but I look, my whole thing is I always try to have 2 things recording. So, like, right now, we're using squad cast. I'd probably have a recorded going on on Saturday morning when I do ask the podcast coach, we use Google. And

recently I've been having Internet problems at my house. And for whatever reason, like, right now, we're using a squad cast. Not a problem. Google Hangouts every now and then Dave just my Internet, I think, is actually like dropping the Internet for, I don't know, a second, and then it connects. And so with

different programs, you are cash. So you never noticed that I dropped because by the time it noticed that I dropped, I'm back on again. So it's just this constant stream. Google Hangouts not so much. And so -- Wow. -- it it's weird. And so my recording, the last 2 episodes, have been weird, and Jim occasionally sounds like

he's being auto tuned. Jim calls from my cohost. So all this stuff, you just sound I know weird. I I hear what you're saying, but it's just like, All of a sudden, Jim has turned into Katherine Hepburn in on Golden Pond. He's like, oh, yeah. You oh, yeah. You old poop. And so yeah. So I always have 2 things going because in that case, my recording is junk and I use the Google Hangouts and sometimes I will cheat Like at the beginning, we play music. Well, anything on Google Hangouts or Facebook,

it's so compressed that the music just sounds like an AM radio. So I will basically take in the the Google Hangouts audio. And when I play the intro music, I will actually have a second track and bring in the actual music

And then as I start to talk over it, which I did live, I will fade out the music. And that's 1 of those things that I think as a podcaster we obsess over. But in reality, if I didn't do that, I don't think I would get a lot of email from people going your audio sounds like cinemas is just 1 of those things that the the downside of being a podcaster is eventually you will listen through the ears of a podcaster and

we're just all way too picky on ourselves. So that's very true. Do you find there's a time that you you overkill? You do too much redundancy? Yeah. When all of a sudden you look up and you go, wait a minute, I I just bought this 3 terabyte hard drive. How was it almost full? And you look at, like, oh, I've I've got the video. I've got 37, you know, different versions of the file that because I'll I'll like, with an interview,

Sometimes I will basically take it. I'll have the raw interview, and then I will make a copy of it. So I'll edit that. That way, for some reason, the file goes wonky. Got the original. And I'll go through and I'll edit out of this stuff, and I'll, like, name it like, you know, Dave and Kyle stereo. And I'll have that and I'll edit it out. And then

in that case, maybe you're in the left channel and I'm in the right channel. So I've got them separated out. In that way, if your dog barks and for the record, I don't know who these dogs are. They're not barking in my podcast. We always say that way if there's something in the background.

And if you set it up properly unless you're interviewing somebody on the subway train. Usually, you don't have a lot of background noise, but it's nice to have that. And then I will save it again after I've edited, got everything set. And I'll maybe save it as a model file because in the end, I don't really need people split out and things like that. So I've got the original, the

the backup copy, the edited stereo copy, and the edited mono version. And and that's where it's where it's like, once it's done, in theory, I'm telling myself, well, I'll go back and I'll delete the edited stereo version because I don't need that. And I'll delete the original you know, I'll get rid of some of these because I just need the original and the finished because if I have the original, I can always work my way back to the finished 1. But in the end, when those are WAV files,

those starts to take up a little bit of a row. I can imagine. How about how far I mean, you've got 30 plus podcasts that you've done in your lifetime. Yeah. How many of those episodes going all the way back to the original ones you've done? Do you still keep around? There some of them I finally pushed to the cloud, but for a while, when I was like, with this computer I'm using right now, it's a new computer. And when you start copying things over

from the the USB backup drive you're like, oh, here you know, like, wait. Why am I, you know, copying over a podcast from, you know, 2000 whatever 10 that hasn't been, you know, had 7 episodes and it's dead. I'm like, what is the purpose of this? You'd never know. You'd never know. Yeah. I might need that. You never get. So, yeah, the the hoarder in me, I guess, wants me to I'm I'm hoarding files, but most of my keep is just 1 of those

I I don't know. It's I figured I'd I'd put the time and effort into it, you know, maybe when I'm 94 and I'm like, oh, listened to back in the day when I you know, I I'm dying to hear that, you know, the customer service show that had a whopping, I think, 6 episodes. You know, it's like, so you never know. That's awesome. Alright. Tim, I'm hogging the microphone, your turn, man.

No. No. You're fine, dude. You're fine. So, Dave, I I was gonna ask you because I'd like to do a a lot of my episodes kinda on the road out in the field there. So and we have a lot of brand new podcasters that are listening to our show here. What do you what is enough for when you're going doing a remote. I know for myself, I I like to carry my DR05, and I make sure that I hit the record button twice. And then I have my h my Zoom h 5,

where I only have to hit the recorder button once. And I've got a little piece tape that says, hey, idiot. Hit it twice. They record. And and for me, that does that does really good for myself. For you. What do you think is bare minimum that a new past new podcaster are doing a setup like that should do? And what is I don't wanna say optimum I mean, because I know we could you know, if money is no option, we can go crazy with this stuff. But what what is

you know, getting by in what is kind of middle middle of the road for us. Yeah. Getting by is when you run into Dan Miller in the hallways. Social media marketing world. And you're like, oh, man, I gotta talk to this guy. I gotta talk to him now. I've got 1 question for him. And what I did, I refer to it as the Bob Barker. This is where you have 1 microphone and you pointed at whoever is talking. If you've ever seen the price is right, Bob Barker used to have this like 4 foot long microphone.

And so I went to my voice memo on my phone, and I said, I'm standing here in a hallway, but that's the 1 they always do. If there's a background noise, not gonna try to pretend that I'm in a quiet studio, Mike. I'm standing in the hallway at social media marketing world, and I'm here with Dan Miller. Dan Miller is the only person I've known that ever went through the process of actually paying to have a legit music, in this case, taking care of business.

On his show, Dan, could you share the story of how you went through that? And I just I talked into my mic, and when it was time for Dan to talk, I just basically put the phone in front of his face And at first, he was kind of like he he's a podcaster. So he he he knew what was going on, but it is kind of weird when you just cram your phone into somebody's face. And I was really surprised at how well that worked. Now I just was in Utah a couple of weekends ago.

And I have you can't see this, but I have a little coffin that holds a zoom h 1. And what I use, there's a microphone it's it's a it's a pair of microphones, and the name of it is so weird. It's giant squid audio. And what's cool about it is I can plug that into the line in and it's the thing I hate about it is they give you

probably 10 feet of cable. So you're always tripping over the cable and it's always wait. Hold on. Let's do this interview. As soon as I get this, you know, you're you're doing this dance. You feel like it's Christmas and you're untangling the Christmas lights. And I just pin 1 on somebody and kinda tell them, please don't move around a lot. Because it might pick up your shirt or whatever and pin 1 on me. The key is

that if you can always listen to what you're recording because I was they they stuck me in a row called the hall of experts. So I was in the hall of experts. Well, there's a whole bunch of people talking in there. And I as I'm recording this, I said, you know what? I'm not listening to this. I said, I'm breaking my own rule because I don't know what this sounds like. I said, I know there are people talking here,

but I said hopefully this microphone is close enough to you. And there are tools you can go through. Now I use a a program called the isotope RX7. It is not cheap. It is 4 figures to buy. And it was really cool because they have a feature called dialogue isolate that was kind of able to squash

some of the background noise. But if I had had my and it doesn't have to be, like, major headphones. If I just had earbuds in, I could have said, hey, let's record something real quick. Tell me what you had for breakfast. And then I could've listened back and said, oh, you know what? This room's too noisy. We've gotta go out in the hallway or something like that. So that's kind of my

I'm in a hurry. I don't have a lot of room in my suitcase. That's that version because the h 1 is like the size of a snickers bar. And then I just coil up the the little microphones they clip on. I love your setup. If you have, you know, a zoom h 4, the the task cam you mentioned, something that I can plug XLR microphones into, and then I would use something like

Probably a because I'm on the road, I'd probably go with a sure s m 58. If I'm gonna be doing this a lot, if I'm not doing a lot of on the road stuff, then I would use a Samsung Q2U versus the audio Technik at ATR 2100 because from what I hear, I've heard a couple different tests The 2100 has a little more handling noise than the Q2U.

If you're not gonna bring some sort of desktop stand to put on, But the the big thing I think when you're doing things on the road is just explain to people like what's going on and what's weird is many times you don't notice it. Like, I I've been listening to Mark Marron. And he was like, hey, folks. Just so you know, I'm and I'm thinking he sounds completely normal. I'm waiting for him to start talking about MeUndies or whatever. And

he's like, I'm recording this in my hotel room. So if it sounds different, and in my head, I'm like, it doesn't. And he goes in. So when I always love when people start off a podcast with an apology because it's, like, the worst way is, number 01:10

weeks from now, people aren't gonna know that you missed an episode or whatever you're apologizing for. And, you know, so so it's like, I'm so sorry. I'm I'm sure this sounds weird and I was like, no. It's I can hear you. It's fine. It's understanding like that. But so those are my 3 things. You know, the the oh my gosh. I need a recording right now, voice memo on your phone. Second up, zoom h 1 with some sort of clip on, or there's even now there I know I think road makes some mics to plug right into your iPhones if you wanna go that route. And then I I like your setup where you've got some XLR mics. And then the key to that again is and it's kind of a bummer. Short microphone cables are more expensive

than long. I don't get that. I'm like, wait a minute. I can buy a 20 foot 1 for 7 bucks, or I can buy a 5 foot 1 for some insane amount of money. And I'm like, okay. Hold on. I'm going home. You know, never mind, Guitar Center. I'm going to Amazon. There's gotta be a better way. It doesn't. But I'm always amazed at that. Yeah. I'm amazed at that too. I had 2 visuals there. I have mics.

Oh, good. Oh, no. I had 2 visuals there. I was gonna say about that, it was like, a meanwhile in the hall of experts, sounds like a super friends episode. And somehow, you said the squid thing. Like, the c u is, like, in a in a ghostbusters jumpsuit with, like, the microphone right here. Like, she like, there's the shotgun mic. Yeah. That. Go ahead, Tim. Now we'll have to get the the the

the sound effects for the the hull of experts. Yes. That's that's Well, I was watching a a video of the guy from startup, Alex. That guy. Yeah. That guy, Alex. Yeah. Alex Inc. Had a TV show by him. Anyway, When he does interviews, he has a shotgun mic. And so shotgun microphones, they have a very

small pickup pattern. They they're very focused. And he point he does the Bob Barker. He sits there and he sits next to the person, not across from them. And just points the microphone at them. And I was like, I did not see that coming, but the microphone he has probably is a car payment for me. So but it's got this giant big foam thing on it and It's interesting because that way everybody knows

whose turn it is to talk because the microphone is pointing at you. So you probably have less of people talking over each other because the mic's not pointed at me. So that's an that's another way you could go. It's just like in pitch perfect 3. I don't know if you ever seen that 1 where she is in the party and the giant microphone is sitting there. And you look up online that the microphone he's gotten from his keyboard is like 14000 dollars. Bloomberg.

Alex Bloomberg. Alex Bloomberg. Alex Bloomberg. And then Kalee -- Yeah. -- that's the rapper's name. There we go. Yeah. We're we're all caught up on on our social names that you can carry on. Like, we can know microphones like that, but it comes to the famous people. We're like, I I my weird thing is I I will recognize people by their album art. Because I see so many people's podcast working at Livson,

and they'll come up and they'll start talking to me and it's always nice to meet new people and then they'll hand me a business card and I'll see their their album, I'm like, oh, I know you. How's the thing it's like so? That's always kind of weird that III recognize more to people by their album art than I do their names. It's not to wear a t shirt with it on there, like a like a rule. That's it. Yeah. 1 thing that I noticed, we recently had a how to festival at our local library

and my my setup there because I recorded that for for our well, for my other show. And with those lav mics, We were talking earlier about the microphone cords being, you know, the long ones cheap, the short ones are expensive. Lab mics. I've got AAAAAAAAAAAAAA lab mic, and

that cord on that thing is, like, 20 feet long. I I had to wrap and around my body 3 times and around my ankle just to get that going you know, and it's it's a beautiful thing because, you know, I can be right there in that mic and and get it you know, get everything that I need for it. I also had the

h 5 recording that. And I think Kyle, you were doing a Facebook live with that -- Yeah. -- via library? Yeah. Yep. So, I mean, we we we we triple teamed it on on that pipeline. It was all, you know, how to how to podcast. It was a it was a quick dirty, 20 minutes get it in, get it out, and move on. I was battling a robot class, how to make your own robots.

Right after me selling, you know, there's a bunch of kids getting ready to come on in and and take me out. But, yeah, the the the live mics, I'm just like, why are those courts so long? It just it it does mean III kinda wanna I used to be an aircraft mechanic for the Air Force. I kinda wanna, you know, snip them put a little splice in there, you know, snip about 5 feet off of it, put a little splice in there and and make that happen. Of course, when I did that for my my geometro

car to the ignition wires did work out so well. So maybe I shouldn't do that time. Yeah. I don't know. Especially if if people are doing video, you know, usually usually your camera, the first of this, it's a way is a selfie stick. You don't really need 20 feet of of cable.

So I'm not sure about that, but I I know the the microphone you're talking about. Is that the 1 that uses a watch battery? Yes. Yeah. That's the 1 that Yeah. That's a huge cable. And, yeah, I'm with you on that. So because I remember when I used it, I kind of undid the cable let about 6 loops out enough for me to do and then put the twisty back on because, yeah, that's I don't know why they do that. I guess it's

I guess, they're in the long run, maybe they get more complaints of this court isn't long enough, then it's too short or something. I don't know. Or or vice versa. Whichever 1 they're getting, I guess, apparently, they got more complaints on this is too short. So they gave you this, you know, now you can do your podcast or you can do your recording from another state. Yep.

I'll put the h 4 in the back pocket and then, like, my front pocket's got this giant bulge It's from -- Yeah. -- 400 feet of cable. So the the strategies of Dasek is disaster recovery. We we know that the the the published cliff you hit publish and you realize, oh, no, I've done something wrong. And then the new post, is that the elegant solution to repost? Is there an elegant solution to surviving the the double post or having to go back and fix a bad episode?

Well, like I said, if you don't care about Spotify and Google Play Music, you can just upload the exact same name file in your golden. Now the bad news is anybody that's got it,

they have the collector's edition. There's no way if it's it's a decision you have to make, do I want everyone to get this and that's where you can go, oh, I caught this a half hour. After I posted it, I can see where whatever, you know, 40 people have this and I normally get 400. So, okay. So those people okay. That's fine. I'll just upload the new file and those people will probably figure it out or whatever.

And then so that's that's 1 that's the most easy way that you kinda go, okay, Spotify and Google Play Music, don't care, and and that's where some people like, how dare you? You know, I listen on Spotify. And I'm like, alright. So you're the 1 you're the 1 who listens to Spotify. Yes. Thank you so much. Yeah. So that's the the most elegant way.

But and it kinda depends on so that's 1 factor. How many people have gotten it? And then number 2 is, you know, so if I upload something that's, like I say, like, not a bunch of people who've got it, that's you can upload that. I think in my case, it had been a while. Like, it had been out a a while, you know, and a bunch of people from overseas apparently why I was sleeping and downloaded. And I'm like, okay.

Let's let's have everybody get this. So I pulled down the original 1, posted a new 1, but that's the whole thing is when you make a change in your media host or whatever you're using to make your feed, Apple especially can take 24 hours for it to update. And it's kinda weird because sometimes they would it would update enough to show

the new 1 that said repost, but it still showed the old 1 that had been deleted and you're like, how does that work? And that is just the magic of RSS feeds that you're like, wait, what? How you you got the new update, but you didn't get the old update, and it's just a matter of I always tell people if things are going really weird in your feed and you've made changes, because really Apple Podcast is just a mirror of whatever it is you're using to make your feet. So if you're using PowerPress

or Lipson or PodBeam or whoever, and you've made changes in those systems, Apple is gonna reflect those changes. The key and I I swear I wanna get a t shirt that just says, please subscribe to your own podcast because so many people that I don't understand it -- Okay. -- that, you know, they'll go to maybe they're still using iTunes on their computer. Or they'll look at the web based version of of Apple Podcasts.

And they're like, it's not there. It's not there. Well, Apple is looking at whatever 700000 podcasts and it takes them a while to get all these changes. And so it may take 24 hours for your changes to show up in the Apple listing. That's what I call that thing. When you when you pull up Apple iTunes and, yes, I actually mean the iTunes software while it's still here at least, or whatever they're calling it on the Mac version.

That again may be 24 hours. When you first pulled up, that's kind of a snapshot of what's going on with your podcast. In 24 hours. And I beg people, please subscribe. Because when you subscribe, you get the latest, like, you can go in and whatever it's gonna be, swipe down, left, right up to to kinda go, hey, little app. Why don't you do a quick refresh?

And give me a look at the latest stuff. And that's where you go, oh, And so on a regular basis, I'll have people contact me. And and this is just a case where people don't quite understand the mechanics of podcasting, and then that's fine. And they'll say, hey, I just posted an episode and it's not in Apple. And I will go into iTunes and I will make a quick video and I'll say, yep, here it is. Your episode 24 is not here. The last 1 is 23 and then I'll go watch me subscribe, subscribe, and I'll go over to the library and I'll look at the podcast and there's their latest episode. So The the listing is behind, but the subscriber gets the latest stuff. We had a an incident at the Virginia Pankass Association meet up the we had the other day. 1 of the guys who came in who was a pretty new podcaster,

had named his podcast exactly the same name as some dead podcast that had 2 episodes out on it. And at first, we thought, well, obviously, there's gotta be like a keyword or something weird in the background. Nope. Exactly the same I mean, almost in the iTunes, it was the exact same feed name. But iTunes figured out somehow

that they were different. And it became a problem because as you start to look at it, like, in podcast or Google podcast. Open up the app, it was pulling up the old 1 and not his. And he was he was really struggling with that. He started showing his apps. We never even heard of before. He's like, oh, yeah. Well, looks pretty good and like was it, like, radio 1, and it looks pretty good, and it was another 1. Breaker. Yeah. It was, like, this is, like, we started seeing it, like, oh, then somebody started thinking about it. It's, like, Oh my god. There are so many different places you can see where you're at, and no 1 no 1 there's no standard. Because I'll I'll do a cast box

and Google Podcasts and pocket cast. I know pocket cast pulls from iTunes. I'll post an episode And on Google Podcasts and Castbox, it'll show up minutes. And then, like, 45 minutes later, it'll show up in podcasts. It's really weird how the dynamics of that but this guy, yeah, this weird anomaly where he's exact same name as slug as the other show, and it was really complete. And we kept on saying, maybe you should rename your show.

Oh, yeah, my favorite on that example. And that's really did he have the same name or the same fee? The exact same name feed URL. It was the only thing different, I think, was the code that iTunes gives you. So Because I usually if you submit the same exact feed iTunes will say or Apple will say,

hey, this is already here. So but there are a ton of people my favorite example of this is Lipson has a podcast called The Feed. Then if you go into Apple and type in The Feed, which is the name of the show, there's like 6 shows called The Feed, none of which unfortunately are lipids. You have to type in the word lipids and to have that come up. And I see that a lot. There was 1

I had today called have you heard the good news, and apparently a lot of people have shows called, have you heard the good news? Like like yeah. So it's kinda like, well, that might be a little confusing down the road, but at this point, there's no unless somebody has a trademark that they wanna come after you and say, I was here first. So what would be your killer your killer tools tool suite on your mobile phone? What apps should you have

you should subscribe your show on. What do you think are those like top 3 you should have? That's a good question. I would say Apple Podcasts if you're on an iPhone. If you're not on an iPhone, that's the are either you guys Android users? Yeah. We're both Android users. Oh, yeah. We're both Android users. I would guess PocketCast, is that probably the biggest 1 you think on Android? Yes.

Yeah. And then see, the thing I would say spotify, but Spotify just butchers your your show notes. They don't really it's it just looks horrible. In fact, that's the fun thing is whoever you're using to make your feed, in most cases, we'll give you nice clean HTML, and James Cridland on pod news dot net has an article where he compares 19 different apps. And some of them just absolutely

chew and spit out what you gave them. And people will come to, you know, blueberry or whoever and go, look, you made a mistake. My podcast looks horrible over here. And you can take that same code and put it into, like, a feed reader, like, you know, whatever feed lead, and it looks perfect. And then you well, I'm using you know, Jim's House of Podcast App. It's, you know, some guy in his basement and it looks horrible. It's like, that guy just know how to code. And

you know, or they don't care or or whatever. And that's so for me, I I look at Apple Podcasts and Yeah. I would guess pocket cast. I know I have that somewhere on an Android tablet, I think. I kinda think what are the other biggies. If you're on an an iPhone overcast is pretty popular,

but I would see PocketCast and maybe Cashbox is is another 1 on the Android side. I think if I ever went to the Android or whoever went to that side of the fence, I think I would go with CasBox just because they have that ability 1 of my favorite features of Overcast, which unfortunately is only a an iOS app, is I can upload things

to Overcast, and you can do this in Castbox too. So if I, I don't know, grab audio from something and I wanna listen to it or if I wanna listen to somebody's podcast, but I've already got I downloaded their file and I'm getting ready to go in the car and I wanna listen to it. I can upload it to Castbox or overcast and then just fire my phone and it will download that file. So I do that all the time with with stuff. If I have a

I'll I'll often go to a webinar and they'll they'll give me the audio from the webinar. And I'm like, okay, this isn't a podcast, but I wanna listen to it. So I'll just upload it to overcast. And I do that. We talked earlier at the beginning about listening to your show. That's how I listen to my show before I publish it as I upload it to over cast because I wanna listen to it in earbuds. I wanna walk around the neighborhood because that's how my audience listens, you know, to it in that whole 9 yards. So that's

that's a pretty I guess those would be it, but it's it's just 1 of the things where you kinda have to be okay that probably some of these apps are going to just brutally just ruin your your awesome bulleted list and your your formatting is just gonna go out the window and you're like, okay, I guess as long as it looks good in the you know, the the big ones that

my audience is using, and that's where you can usually get that info from your stats to see what your top user agents are. It's good to see Google podcasts. It started off as garbage

and is slowly. It's just like any other Google app. It starts off version 1 is horrible. Version 2 and version 3 is version 4 is, oh, this is not too bad. It seems like that it's they're they're slowly iterating their way to something of at least on brand or users. You know, you still have to go into the Google Play store and go get it. It's not on the phone, not like it is on an Apple phone. But it's it's gotten a lot better. Well, the other thing that's confusing about that, I have 2 shows

with the exact same feed that I use, you know, in this case, I use lips and for both those. I use the same WordPress theme. I've put the exact same code in the websites. And when you search for the podcast on 1, the new little play buttons show up in the search results. And if you search the other 1 using the exact same technique, no play buttons. And I'm like, Okay. And I saw a documented feature.

Yeah. It is the ones where it's like, we are slowly rolling this out. And I'm like, okay. I'm gonna take that as it hasn't rolled out to this show yet. What I wish they would do is politely

let you say hello and goodbye to Google Play Music 1 last time. Give it a little pat on the head and go, thanks so much for your time while you were here. You were never released to the world. You were only in North America and politely take it out behind the barn and just, you know, gold old yellow on it and and see a buy. Because it's it's right now, it's okay. But over the past year, Google Play Music has had issues where it just quit updating

or it's just weird. Their stats never really worked in their dashboard. And the other thing that's really confusing is people think that if I'm in Google play music, I'm already in Google Podcast, and that is not the case. They're 2 separate things. So I wish they would just for the sake of confusion,

just just nobody will notice. Just take it out behind the barn. Oh, yeah. No 1 will notice. Yeah. Well, so so we talked about the the problems of of posting and like, oh, no, and trying to save your post. How about what happens when you when you post something 4 or 5 episodes ago and you find out that you forgot to bleep a word or or even the other 1, the the infamous, you know, the interview that comes back and says, oh, I said these things on this show and Could you please remove that episode or delete me from your episode? What do you do when you're when you're that far back?

Because it Yeah. I've had I've had 1 person once that said, hey, there was a thing I said in the interview, and it's not really it it was 1 of the things where it was

a case where it it triggered their their Spidey senses. They're kinda like, this isn't really a problem. But if this person that we were talking about heard this, they might take it wrong. I really don't wanna potentially offend them. Is there any way you could remove that? What I do when I do an interview is at the end, I would say, is there anything we talked about that maybe you wanna redo or take out. And most people go, no, it's fine. And I did that in this case, but this is kind of like they wake up the next day and they're like,

you know, maybe I shouldn't have done that. And I just went back and took it back the same thing. And I I hadn't in that case, I hadn't posted it. If I had posted it though, what would I do? In that case where that person wants that gone completely. And because it's old, so in this case, I would go in, rename the file and upload it to my media host. That way, Spotify and Google Play Music will will do that. That means it's gonna be kind of offline for a bit. But because it's an old episode,

it's not the same as that first week where it's just getting pounded by all your users. Most of your regular audience has already downloaded it, so they've got it. So it's kind of going forward. So that's another thing that that might come into play, like, how long has this been out? And if it's been a couple days or a week or so, there's a big chunk of your audience. It's always kind of amazing the percentage of your audience that gets it within the first week. That's actually, if I wanna

measure

how my audience is doing, I will go into to lipson and look at episode from maybe a month or 2 ago, and just say show me the first 7 days of this episode. And then I'll go in and say, okay. Now this new 1, show me the first 7 days of this episode and what are the downloads like? Because to me, that's that's your subscribers, that's your mega fans, everybody that's getting this because they want it and I want it now. That's how I kinda gauge that in terms of how popular it's skin. But that is a that is kind of a case where, in this case, that person wants that version off the Internet. And you have to also realize that the Internet writes in ink. So is much you could go through and try to get rid of it. There's gonna be somebody that still has a copy of that. Like I said, if you've already downloaded it, there's no way I can reach through the internets and grab that file off your phone. But in that case, I would get rid of it. But luckily, I haven't had that happen too often. I haven't had too many people say, hey, can we kind of

you know, do that thing. I've heard people thought get worried about explicit content being in their episodes later and later on. That they had out there and they didn't know they had it out there and they're like, oh, what do I do? Would I go back and bleep out that word? Or is it kinda too late? What you can

go back and do that. I I'll give you an example of 1 that I still wanna do. I did a a whole episode that wasn't super podcasting specific but it was about how to get more done because 1 thing podcasters all figured out when you start is holy cow does this take a whole lot more time than I thought. And I did this episode about all these tools I used to do lists and how to stay focused in blah blah blah. And at the end of it, I was supposed to say, oh, and when you start off your day,

don't pick up your phone. Like, come up with some sort of morning routine. So my morning routine is I actually have an app where I I listen to myself, tell me how great I am. It's this affirmation apps about I will make good food choices, and I am, you know, I am strong and powerful and all this. And I always thought those were, like, complete gooey. And but yet Don't listen to those. I find myself reaching for the ice cream more than I should.

So I do that. III spent a little time with my invisible sky buddy, and then I go down and and do whatever I might go walk around the block, get some exercise going and drink some water. That's my morning routine. And I didn't say that because it's really important if you if you have all these tools, but you wake up grab your phone and start putting out fires, you're you've completely thrown all your focus out of the way. So if you have some sort of morning routine, Well, I didn't say that in the episode. And every time I think about this, like, the next time I get some free time, I'm gonna go back and put that in at the end of it. Why? Because it bugs me. I think

Good point. And I realized I mean, that was months ago. And I realized that, you know, the people that that really got that episode have already gotten it. But on the other hand, I have an episode from 14 years ago, that still gets a handful of downloads. And so I'm like, alright. So for the handful of people that are coming,

I want them to get that last little bit. So do I have to do that? No. Because the episode was fine. Does it bug me? I wish it was there? Yeah. Okay. We'll have a bunch of you go back and and put it back in. So If you want to go back and bleep stuff, you could when you when you have a single episode marked explicit, that will pop you out of a lot of different countries. So that's 1 of those things where is it worth you to to drop the f bomb because when you do,

I you wanna hear Dave really mispronounce a lot of countries. This is great fun. It couldn't have been, like, you know, it's off run. Balarus, Brunei, darozalum, maybe Burkina Faso, Chad, Egypt, India, finally Jordan Lebanon, Nepal, Oman, Qatar, maybe? No. That's it. Qatar. Saudi Arabia, to Tanisha, Indonesia? You know? Yeah. There we go. You know, Eric Emirates and Uzbekistan, which sounds like somebody made that 1 up

and did that in Yemen. And I know a lot of people like, I don't have any listeners over there. We'll then just drop the f bombs you want. But if you're worried about that, go back and actually did that with the pipe cast radio show. Because originally, I just marked it explicit because I wanted to play people's shows. And if they're dropping f bombs, I just let them go. And I was like, you know what?

There might be somebody in Uzbekistan that wants to hear the podcast rodeo show. So I just I just now go in. I just bleeped them out. Right? Like I said, I cut them out. And and go there. Does that 1 shepherd out there? Who's guys? Your buds in?

Right. New buds got the rhodia. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. So And that's 1 of those where the the famous podcast, you know, answer of, well, it depends. You know, do you wanna have do you care that, you know, some of these countries might hear your stuff? No more than, by all means, make an explicit show. The pet is cloud sponsor of the school podcasting. Right? 1 day. 1 day, they'll get it. Johnson. Johnson, you hearing us? Hundred bucks.

I'm calling them up next week. I'm I'm gonna be your PR man for that. Dave, I wanted to ask you. Again, III like to focus on our beginning podcasters out there, and I know you do as well. Now unless somebody is doing a show on podcasting or a audio a heavy audio file show. We always wanna pay attention to our content, make sure our content is

is really good. But as far as, I guess, what I'm trying to get at is as far as the quality, the sound quality, and, you know, the the things that, like you said earlier, we we listen to it with podcasters and podcast ears. Phil's beginning podcasters, how much should they initially obsess over that kind of stuff? I I know when I first started doing podcasting myself, way back in 2006 with block talk radio, hundred bucks. Block talk radio. I didn't care way back.

You know, way way back in the day. I I really didn't care. I was just doing it for friends and and family, and I still have those 65 episodes that Kyle has been begging to get a hold of. That he'll never see. But back back that time, I didn't care, but I know when I started, you know, hardcore

about 2 and a half years ago, I started to, you know, I up to my mic and I did this and I did that. How much should these beginning podcasters really obsess over it and then let their audience know, oops, I made them a state. Because because for me, if I make a mistake on on mine, I don't you know, my other podcast isn't a how to podcast. It's not a it's not a microphone podcast. We're not doing a rodeo like that. I mean, it's an arts podcast. So if I make a mistake, it's like, you know, Tim had few too many ibuprofen

this week or he had another neck surgery last week. How how much should that new podcaster obsess over that? If if you're going to do any kind of I always call it, nobody cares how the sausage is made. They I I don't think most people do. All they wanna know is bring the content. And but sometimes, it's our

I think if if you opened up the of every podcaster. There's a a big chunk of your heart that wants to serve. Otherwise, I don't think we'd be going through this. And we wanna make it the best and you kinda hate it when I was at a restaurant once and they have the best bread ever. And they brought us a loaf and it was warm out of the oven and we smear with butter and we start biting and we're and everybody's like, what did they do? Well, they forgot to put salt in the bread. And I Words cannot express. When you're expecting

Oh, I love this bread and you get saltless bread, you're like, ugh, and they came out and apologized. And and I think sometimes we picture the person eating saltless bread and we're like, I'm so sorry. Oh my gosh. Please forgive me. Oh my gosh. And your audience isn't really that offended. So I always say, hey, please don't start off your show with an apology. Do it at the end because that's where your superfans are. And those are the people that might actually care

why how the sausage is made. And and again, sometimes we we go into way too much detail. Oh, well, you know, normally I sample at 44 1, but somehow I got to 33 kilohertz and you just jargon, jargon, jargon, jargon, jargon, and they're like, I have no idea what you're you're talking about. But if you just wanna say, hey, I know last week, like, I'm gonna record

an episode of the podcast rodeo show when we get done here, and you will hear me at the end say, hey, for anybody that got the collector's edition, if you wondered what happened with my voice, I hit the mute button, forgot to turn it off. Sorry about that. If you, you know, repost and get over with it because we can really adjust, go away bonkers on that because we feel like we've you you we picture our our listeners going,

what is this? Oh, send us back. You know, how dare you send me an an episode with with no audio, with no vocal in it, you know, and I don't think that in terms of audio, people obsessing over their audio, I was very lucky when I started out. I had a a short SM 58 but I had a Dell computer that a really, really noisy fan in it. And I was trying noise gates and all this other stuff trying to get that fan out. And I would guide I would say things like literally. Let me shut up a second, and I'm sure you'll hear this.

Okay. Did you hear it? Blah blah blah. And I'm going on and again, this is at the beginning of the show. And finally, luckily enough I had somebody email when you go, Dave, I can't hear what you're talking about. I wish you would quit talking about it and just move on because I don't care. I don't hear it. And the other thing I thought was funny about that is I was sitting there listening to the recording of it. In the room, here's the key point, with the Dell with the noisy fan. So even if I wasn't listening to anything, I would still hear the fan noise because it was in the room with me. And so that's where I will take my episode, in in my case, you could throw it into Dropbox or whatever something. Well, get it on your phone and go listen to it where your audience listens to it. I had a similar situation where I had a buzz or something. And I was mentioning it in my podcast, and I said, here, I'll shut up and you'll hear it. Why as I was listening to it, I was doing 55 on the freeway, and I couldn't hear a thing. So I think sometimes we really obsess over

the little bugs or the noise. And and that doesn't mean we shouldn't care about our audio for me as long as it's not distracting. When, you know, you have audio where all of a sudden somebody's really quiet and somebody's deafening loud or or just whatever a buzz or a high pitch wine or, you know, something that makes your audience go, you know, that's where you go in and fix it. But a lot of times, you know, you're using an ATR 2100 or a Samsung Q2U

and then they obsess over it and they I mean, I've got 1 right now. The microphone I'm talking into is about 300 bucks. I've got a 2100 sitting right here it's 60 bucks. There's not 240 dollars difference. But here's the thing, and this is where sometimes I I think people obsess over this. If I do this, it feels like I'm doing something to grow my audience. It's like, oh, this will and I'm like, unless your audience is saying, wow, your your audio sounds like crap.

The microphone isn't the problem. You know, that's where but then now we gotta go figure out what they want and what they need and figure out what they're really dying to hear, and that just takes more work and it's much easier just to go to, you know, Guitar Center and buy a new microphone. That is awesome advice. Thank you so much, David. It's always a pleasure to talk to you. Tell everybody where they can find you. Where where do you live these days? I live in a van. Don't bother you.

Down by the river. No. I find me at school of podcasting dot com, and you can find all my shows about podcast webcasting because I've got a handful at power of podcasting dot com. Well, you are our official spirit animal, so appreciate you talking to us. And I've made it a special request not to be in the shower while this episode is going around. Because I usually listen to Dave in the shower every morning. So I'm a horrible weird. To

to do that, you know, to listen to the show and go, oh, I heard the noise. I'm listening to it in the shower. So Yeah. They just recommend folks do that. Catch every, like, third word or something. So we think you're I've got 1 of those total suction cups. It's waterproof suction cup speakers. Oh, I do see that of those.

It's awesome. I got 1 from I think it was Sylvania. It was, like, at a a big lots or discount store. I got it for, like, 6 bucks. And I've it it's Bluetooth. I fire it up, throw a little water on the suction cup, stick it on the wall. Good to go. And I, you know, I get another 4 minutes of podcast listing or however long it takes me to wash my hair. So -- There you go. -- it was like Sylvia. A hundred bucks.

There you go. That's what you thought. We figured out. That's how we find out who our clients are. We build them all and whoever sends us a check. That's who our sponsors are. So far, hasn't really worked, but we wouldn't keep trying our strategy. So but appreciate your time. Thank you very much for being on the show. Thanks guys for having me. This has been fun.

Thank you for listening to Pogrex. You know, We're trying to help you avoid all the pitfalls and the wrecks in the podcasting world. Today was a special episode we had Dave Jackson, Hall of Fame podcaster Dave Jackson out here showing us that, hey, even the big guys like him have errors, have mistakes that they've done in their podcast, but more importantly, he showed us how to recover from those mistakes and those errors and to make a better podcast for all of us. So make sure that you tune in to us every week at pod rack dot com. Shoot us an email if you show ideas at pod rack at gmail dot com this up on our Patreon.

We're always looking for great ideas from you, and we wanna thank you again for listening to our show. Keep on podcasting. On the next episode of Pinky and The Wiz. Pod rack, man. What's like, they rep their podcasting to the wall or something like, what's the deal? III know. It's it's it's about II0, man. Come on. Spin it up. Pikachu though, crazy. Find out what happens next. At pinky in the whiz dot com.

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