Hello. This is Kyle Bondo, and this is Timothy Kim O'Brien. And you're listening to Pod Rec, the podcast that helps you navigate the ebb and flow of the podcast industry. Hey, everybody. Again, this is Tim Brian over here at pod rack and today's episode, we're gonna be talking about Patreon. We're gonna be talking about how you can make money off your podcast. Now,
don't turn on don't turn that dial. I know you want to. Don't turn that dial. We're not gonna give you a 10 step program on how to make money on your podcast. What we're gonna do here today is we're going to look at other podcasts that are being very successful at the Patreon game. Now if you're in a lot of the Facebook groups and Facebook chats,
every other question is, hey, how do I grow my Patreon? How do I grow my Patreon? Well, I think we've got a good article here for you from the Lyme link, and it's a written and this was done just recently arrived December eighteenth 20 18, 1 day away from a national holiday. We'll talk about that later. But it's in Lime Lincoln. It's called analysis top earning podcast on Patreon. It's by Jack Rycider.
And he goes into it. He's got some interesting numbers here for us. With some some really great podcasts. A couple of them I have listened to that Well, we'll we'll get into, you know, those those 5 disclosure. A little bit later, I haven't listened all the podcasts he's talking about, but some of the ones I've listened to are okay. But I'm not a patriot. Support to him. And then he's got, you know, about 6 observations. On how to how to do that for yourself.
Maybe you should write a book. What do you what do you think about that, Kyle? You think you should write a book on this and make some money off of how to other people how to make money? Well, of course, you should. Everyone has a book in them. Everyone should write a book. I have a book. And eventually, I'll finish the dang thing. But in all, honestly, this this article by Jack is really good. I was really surprised to find
that a lot of these observations, I was like, well, of course. I mean, there's not rocket science. I mean, how do you promote anything? How do you sell anything? This gives you the recipe. But as we'll get into this episode, you'll find the recipe
you know, just like any other kind of recipe just because you can make malibu chicken doesn't mean someone else can make malibu chicken. Then maybe you have a different flavor or a different spin on it or maybe you burn things or cook them too long or don't cook them long enough. Who knows? This gives you the building blocks and the blueprint for doing the a Patreon subscription process and making money on Patreon. However, there is a catch.
We'll get into that towards the end of this episode. But let's talk really first, Tim, about some of this some of these dollars for some of these podcasts. Now, in all honesty, full disclosure. I didn't I've never heard of some of these before. I really had to go and, you know, I had to go on a little, you know, safari. And find out what the heck is going on with these guys. And the very first 1 is called
Chapo Trap House making a hundred and 10000 dollars a dang month. I was like, you gotta be this come on. These guys must be rocking it hard. This must be really good. 10. Okay. Yeah. Well, help me out on this 1 because I I'm I'm gonna get myself into trouble because it's content that I was like, aren't you kidding me? Alright. So good to wait, Tim. Save me on this 1. Well, yeah, I mean, Kyle, I we're looking at the at at the numbers here. They've got 245 episodes.
And they're making a hundred and 10000, and they've got 24000, almost 25000 patrons. Oh, awesome. So, you know, they're killing it. They're making about 4 dollars not quite 4 and a half dollars per Patreon subscriber, which doesn't sound like a whole lot of money. You're making 4 bucks off of off of somebody. To do that. But you're making it off of 25000 people. So if you sold math, hashtag math, really right there is what you're talking about.
Well, you know, I am public school, you know, math that's where I graduated from. So I may not have all the numbers right. But I I you know, with Chapo, Trapo House, the the content on there is for a very specific audience. They know who their audience is. They are very in tune with their audience. They're giving them exactly what they want. Their nice echo chamber for that audience. So I'll go there for you, Kyle. Okay. Go there. Okay. I mean, the their audience obviously loves them. 24000 fans
is a lot fan. A hundred and 10000 dollars a month is a lot of cash. These people really have their niche market nailed perfectly. Might not be for everybody, but it's definitely for some people, and I think they almost have them all. Well, it it very well could be because, you know, you're looking at, you know, there there's some hardcore people
that are listening to this, that that have that that are buying the kool Aid. And if we look at, you know, speaking about Kool Aid, we're looking at, you know, different different people that have have movements like that, And you're looking at, like, I don't know, Jim Jones. He didn't have 25000 people coming down there and, you know, drinking the Cool Aid, so to speak.
Yeah. I went there. But, you know, he had a couple thousand people to do that. But that was in the seventies when there was no podcast, there was no Internet There's nothing else to do. So let's go down South America and drink some kool Aid, and kumbaya, Bob's your uncle. But with chapel, trap house, they're they are killing it. They may have reached maximum saturation for who they have,
and they're only making 4 bucks ahead. Well, you think of ours when you know. It was just through Patreon. 4 bucks ahead, that's a cup of coffee. That's a Starbucks model right there. You know, you don't let your I mean, how many cups of coffee do you sell?
A a month. I mean, the the Chapetrap house is definitely on that road. They have their own Wikipedia page. Their they're all over the place. And it's a it's a very interesting model because when you really kind of crack open, just this 1. I don't know. Of course, we we've looked at a couple others, but you just crack open just this Patreon account. What you discover is more than just a podcast. It's not just a pocket. It's almost a a cultural event in its way. It is
lack of a better word It is an acquired taste. It is a bizarre weird kind of combination. I would call it a broadcast. But I, you know, I gave it a listen. I but and it's not bad. It's also I mean, some points are kinda hilarious. They do crack some jokes. The problem that I had with it is coming in at episode,
what are they at now? Like, something like 2 hundreds or 289 or so or 86 or something like that, was a lot of the inside baseball humor I've I mean, I well, you know, wasn't in on the the jokes, which is fine because if you're a really good if you're an avid listener, probably in or on, you know, probably are in on the jokes, and the jokes probably make sense to you as an avid listener. It's a it's it's a cult following. It really is. Yeah. It definitely is. I mean, I read their book
before I listened to them. I I I saw the chapel, chapel's book. As a matter of fact, you saw me reading it that 1 time. And they have a book. They they not only do they have a podcast, they have book, they have merch up the wazoo. Wow. See, there so you're starting to unravel the recipe. If you if you were taking the top contender here on Patreon,
you're really gonna have an unraveling of the whole. What's what is really behind the podcast? Because it's more than just the podcast. So tell me everything that comes with the kichapo Trap House experience? Well, it's definitely aimed at folks that are more I don't even wanna say it's necessarily those on the left because they actually make fun of both sides of the house. They're really into tearing up the the left and the right and democracy and communism and socialism.
They're about turning it all up and then creating their own universe which for 4 dollars a month, you can be a part of because you're smarter than everybody else because you're listening to us. And they're really making it a whole tribe kind of thing. It is a us versus them kind of thing. And when you get into that, That simple psychology. That's psychology 1 0 1. When you create that tribe and when you create that sense of of tension and all that.
You give them a purpose. People are gonna follow you to the ends of the earth. They'll follow you to South American and drink some kool Aid. Absolutely. And they and I would say that they're they're a little more left of center than than you give them credit for. They do tend to be a little bit on that side, which is fine. You know, if that's you're looking for some alternative
type stuff from from regular TV, these guys definitely have it. I love their their logo, which is the DEA's cocaine intelligence unit patch, which is just By itself, every time you as I as I started to to to unravel the the this podcast, it really started becoming I mean, they really have kind of touched on something that's very interesting is there is something for a lot of different people here. Politics, humor, it has you have the merch, you have the ability to get it just about everywhere.
You have this this whole Patreon thing where if you are a subscriber and right now there's only it's only 5 dollars. It's a 5 dollar tier that they have. They don't have any other tiers. Just 5 bucks. So they're they're not they're not, you know, 20 dollar tier and we come visit you wouldn't have a hotdog. We know, we need roast kind of thing. No. It's none of that stuff, you know, or that's a hundred dollars here in which, you know, I'll coach you. No. None of that stuff. It's 5 bucks. That's it. You wanna be part of the show. It's 5 bucks. It's almost like a cover charge to a bar. And and the way they talk, they talk almost like pub humor in a sense. That's the kind of the first vibe I got off it. But for 5 bucks,
you get all their secret content. You get the Chapo Trap House patron only posts and that is where the money is made. This is what they have keyed in on. It's not just the free content. The free content go back to their DEA cocaine and intelligence force. The first sample's free. They have all this free content out there. All this kind of cool stuff you can get in on. But if you're not a Patreon subscriber, you're missing out on the other half. And the other half is where it's at.
Wait. It it's funny that you'll bring up the DEA the patch there because it's a simple It's a simple drug deal is what they're doing. They're they're giving you a taste for free, but you want that, you know, and the next one's gonna cost you. And it's only gonna cost you 5 bucks. You can afford that, but then you go and buy the book for like 30 bucks, and then you go buy this and that for 10 bucks and 15 bucks, and it's 6 exclusive. No 1 else has this content. It's the latter.
It's the latter. They're they're they're cooking you in. No 1 else has this content. No 1 has these kind of people's sense of humor. They have a very unique style about them. And so, I mean, not to not to gush about them, but I mean, I'm not a super fan of the Champo Tropical's, but I am a fan of their marketing and their their sales strategy. And they really kind of knock it out of the park here. They have hit all the bases. And let's kind of, like, go into
what Jack is talking about. I really think trap house kinda checks all the boxes. And as we go through this, I think we'll find out that even though he analyzed the top earners for podcast on Patreon. No. Patreon. Sorry. You know, I'm the guy who messes up all the words. Right? That's mine. That's my schtick. Mhmm. So but he he talks about the very first observation was every 1 of them gives a bonus episode to Patreon supporters.
And I think, okay, Let's check that box. I think Chapo Trap House does that. Another show which we know and love is Ask the podcast coach. With what's it? Hey, Paul of Hall of Fame, Dave Jackson, and the other guy, Jim Carlson, they have a show that's live at 10 30 every Saturday.
So and if you wanna hear it, you know, by all means, go listen to ask the podcast coach dot com. Live show. And it is it is really if you were into podcasting, that's your show. That's where you go to listen to these 2 guys. You know, to vamp about, you know, kinda like this show in a sense. They do it live, and they talk about the different aspects of of actually creating a podcast. But they have a hard break at 11 30. And at 11 31, they have what's called the after show.
Now if you listen live, you get to see the after show or watch after show it's a video and its audio because they turn into a podcast. But the podcast is only the hour long show. The actual after show is for Patreon subscribers only. So if if you have a question about a certain piece of technology or a certain way of doing something or something that a coach would help you with.
Then, I mean, they'll talk they'll they'll do it on the live show, But if you want, if you if you want that information and you miss the show, guess what? You gotta be subscriber. Now they're doing dollar, 5 dollar, 10 dollar, 20 dollars. Right? And then they do an extra thing where if you're a 20 dollars subscriber, you get mentioned every show. If you're a 5 dollars subscriber,
then you get mentioned every month in 1 of their weekly, you know, their their their, like, end of the month shows. So you get a little bit back. They talk about you on the show, but you get access to that back end. The Chapo Trap House people doing the same thing. They're putting out a an episode for free. And then the 5 dollar per month people get that special episode. That special episode could be a live performance It could be something that is about something they watched. They talked about
burger night. They talk about these kind of these these fights they've seen, the games they've watched, the things they talk about, the poll down, the political stuff, they they all these kind of different kind of things are going on. Inside their locked content you can't get access to. And chances are, they talk about it, and then they go to the Patreon content.
And then they come back to their next live show, when they do it twice a week, their next show. And maybe they talk about the thing they talked about in the lock show, but if you're not a Patreon, You're calling us out.
Yep. And it's like a club. And if you're not a member of the club, then you don't know what's going on. So at the water cooler the next day, when someone says, oh my gosh, did you hear with those guys in the Tropo the Chapo Trapa House talked about? You're like, no. I I don't remember that. Like, oh, we asked in the Patreon content. Like, oh, I don't know. I'm gonna be a a club member too. Where's No. It's only 5 bucks, man. Just 5 bucks man. First, he's free. 5 bucks.
And that's how they do it. And it's brilliant. Well, everyone wants to be with the cool kids, and the problem is that when every every kid is a cool kid, then no kids are cool. But these guys are definitely I mean, if you think about it, hundred and 10000 dollars a month, These are these are cool kids. These are cool. I mean, that's a that's a car payment. Get my Lambo out on in the driveway. Right? Like, holy smokes. And and and with the beauty of all that is you pay these people 5 dollars to
produce content. You are realistically, you're you're it's only almost they call them what I what I heard the other day. Money is gratitude certificates. And you're giving someone your gratitude certificates of the content they give you, of the laugh you had or of the deep insight they took you on or the information they gave you about something you didn't know. That is what you're doing for 5 bucks a month. Okay? We'll see. Let's do some simple math here. I know hashtag math.
Okay? So we're looking at 60 bucks a year. That's not a lot. Really not a lot. If you think about if I'm paying for what? 5 something enough of a per coffee a week. I mean, that's Bobby, I'm You're paying you're paying 10 bucks a month for for Netflix? No. No, my friend. I'm paying 15 a month for Netflix. And I got a Hulu on top of that Netflix.
Well, there you go. Because they put some stupid show on Hulu that I had to watch, so I had to do that. And don't forget my Amazon Prime subscription. So there's 3 of them right there. Oh, and then the course, it got Audible, which I had to turn off the other day. So there's 4 of the reoccurring things in my little entertainment package. Mhmm.
5 bucks a month, really? It's nothing. It's nothing. Nothing. Nothing then. Enter Nothing. And if it's good and you and you're, like, cooked on it, you have to have it and makes your whole day, then that that's why this works. So, Carl, let's again, I'm glad to brought that point up here. Let's let's talk about the pay plays per subscriber. On this. And observation number 2, he's, you know, our
our our good guy here. He's going in taking a look at the pays per subscriber for these Patreon accounts, and we're looking at all these podcasts. The number 1 is is Comtown, which I haven't listened to. Sounds like it's right up my alley. I got to pass on that 1. Now they they've got about a hundred and 47 episodes, 9250 patrons, and they're making 44000 dollars I'm sorry. 41000 dollars a month.
On that. They're averaging about 50. So each each Patreon subscriber is listening to about 50 episodes. Now you compare that with Joe Rogan who's got, you know, 1300 episodes and his subscribers are listening to about 20. Now everyone everyone in podcast who knows Joe Rogan. Not everybody knows Comptown, but they're beating Joe Rogan in his game. They're getting 50 per versus Joe who's getting 20 per now. Keep in mind that, you know, he's got, you know, 1300 episodes versus hundred and 47.
But still, they're doing pretty good. And if they keep it up with what they're doing, they'll be beaten Joe at his own game. I think this is an apples to oranges comp comparison
in his stats. And although the rest of this article's really good. Right here, I think there's a little weird thing going on because Joe Hogan has hardcore sponsors on his show. These they're paying him thousands of dollars to be, you know, on every 1 of his episodes versus the Patreon model, which is of being self funded by your fans. And when you're a tiny little niche show and you're getting more feedback and more traction from your fan base, than a show that is a major market show.
That kinda says something. That kinda says that that maybe that again, like we always hear, the riches are in the niches. If you can niche down to really capture your audience attention and really show that you're giving back and and realistically, Patreon is giving back. It's people getting their hard earned bucks into into this and getting a special episode or getting something
of value that that that Joe Regan's not giving necessarily. I mean, I don't I mean, I'm sure I can buy Joe Regan merch. I'm sure I can do that. But but can I contribute to his show? Well, not necessarily. I guess. I mean, you can you got locked content on on the come town
and some interesting tiers for 1 of them is a memorial fund for something that will If you want to know, the link will be in the show notes. By all means, go find for yourself, but there are some interesting things going on there. It's a weird kind of like a means, not my not my it's not my game. It's not my scene. Sure. Yeah. But it's apparently somebody's scene because 40030 41000 dollars a month is not chicken scratch. I mean, if you think about that, 41000
dollars a month is what? For let's see. Because of math, if it's at 420000 dollars a year, that's a lot of money. They do that right. I don't care the 1. Do that right. If I buy 2, I'm a I was public educated. So Well, I saw you taking off your shoes for that 1. So Well, yeah. I didn't need I needed the pinky toe for the 10, you know. But yeah. I mean, you think about 400000 dollars a year for to podcast about I'm I'm gonna assume sex.
But realistically, if you think about some of these other podcasts, you'll you know, sword and scale? Was it the the not another DND podcast? A couple of the other ones that that that that are not bad. The Fantasy footballers, they really are talking to an audience that is very very niche. They're not talking like And it's like, you know, Joe Rogen has a very broad
group of people for everybody. Yeah. He's really kind of a kind of a he's really kind of become the like, Like a talk show host. Yeah. He's like a Howard Stern in a sense. But these podcasts Let me think about that, not another D and D podcast. That is for a very specific group of people. You might have heard of them. They're called nerds or Geek And, yes, I was a d engine master in my past life. But I if I see you on the street, I will deny it.
But not another D and D podcast is not a bad podcast. And if -- Mhmm. -- you are into that. I mean, if you are into that, that show is for you. And it shows that the content they create has value. How do I know? 5000 subscribers on Patreon, 20000 dollars a month is going. He's being taken from people's pockets and given to the producers of not another DND podcast. Mhmm. That tells me right away that something they're doing is good.
Now, if you think about that, if you can translate out in your head, something that they're doing is good, is right, is on the spot. Does not necessarily translate to everyone because it's people involved, what their voices sound like, what they act like, their humor, whatever they kinda do. It's the relationship that they have with their audience. And it's their content, and particularly the niche they're in, some niches love them some d and d, where other niches don't love them some lawyers.
I mean, there are 2 different kind of animals. What what what do they hear from a a business coach wants is you need to find something that people need, want, Those are the things people need and want. Right? That seems pretty easy, but then that's the third horsemen of that formula or the third leg in the stool. And we're willing to buy.
That is the marking trifecta. They have to need it. They have to want it. And they have to be willing to buy it. And if they're not willing to buy it, need to want isn't gonna generate anything. A lot of people like to complain about things. They don't like to buy anything to solve that problem. These podcasts scratch an itch, they talk to people in a way that is not necessarily
the way other podcasts talk to people. You can learn a lot, and I recommend that you go through this list, these top patron sub subscribers, these these podcasts, Find out that the secret formula is what they're talking about. Listen to maybe 3 episodes each. Take a listen and you'll hear, you'll you'll it'll start to come out you'll start to hear what it is that makes people love these shows. Chances are it's something very unique to that show.
Mhmm. Can you can you can you manufacture it? I don't know, but you definitely can learn from it. That's what I think about observation 2. Yep. And 1 of the ways you can manufacture that is by going on to what I like to term as the Twitter. The observation number 3 is talking all about Twitter and it's something that they have in common. Is a very strong Twitter presence where they're constantly putting in the work to reach out to the fans, reach out to their tribe,
and make their presence known out there. And, you know, you're announcing bonus episodes, you're announcing merch, you're announcing special things, through, you know, a very you know, it's, you know, a hundred and 40 characters. You can get a lot into a little bit there and it doesn't take much. It's just, hey, I have an idea. Boom. Shoot it out and then respond to your audience just as quickly as they're responding to you. Well, Tim, give us give us a a
a bar here. You said strong Twitter Twitter presence. Kind of kind of explore that a little bit. What does this say about strong and glitter presence? Well, you you gotta be out there all the time, and you I I would I would think that, you know, with all these, you know let's see here. It's a lot. If you did not worth a little. It's a lot. You know, I for Comptown, we were just talking about Comptown. The show itself doesn't have an official Twitter account, but all 3 hosts, hosts do.
And they're tweeting constantly I know when I was doing tweeting for for myself and my shows, I was on there every, you know, every hour I was putting out something, every hour of every day. So, you know, you get 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, boom, you do the math on that. I'm I'm tired of it. And that's just the scratching the surface. If you think about it, if you think about 25000 or 2500 tweets or 28000 followers that to generate these 24000 tweets and retweets and all that. I mean,
when are you not tweeting when you're talking about these numbers? These these people are tweeting just they're they're crazy about it. Yep. Absolutely. And that and that kinda brings me we we were having a little pre talk, a little pre show action. And 1 question I brought up to you is, you know, these numbers that they're making per month off of their Patreon accounts That's fantastic. How much are they working? How, you know, are they eaten, breathing? Going to the bathroom, their podcast,
they have to be. And to kind of and really kind of to jump the gun on that is to jump to observation number 5. Which you think plays off of your, you know, tweeting all the time, tweeting all the time kind of thing, which is every 1 of these has over 40 episodes. That's all that means, so these people are working and and these guys are putting out all these episodes or doing all this work for all this content
and they're tweeting all the time, and they're doing bonus content because it's not just 40 episodes. That's 40 episodes that you can do for free. They're doing 40 episodes also plus all the bonus content. So there's a lot of that other stuff going on there too that they're doing. They're working all the time, but it's kind of like flipped back because, like, we
I jumped over observation before, but kinda talk about what's all this work getting them? So it sounds like these are big numbers, big dollars, Yeah. Okay. So what does that net them? What's the net benefit to these to these podcasters? So, you know, with option number 4, he's looking at the lower podcasts, and he's got 3 of them out there. She's all fat. Not a podcast and podcast the ride. About 40 to 70 episodes per And, you know, just just over, we have 5 5 5600
Patreon subscribers per month. Making them about 3000 dollars a month. So you don't need a whole lot to make some money. You don't need you you just basically, what you need is you need that rabbit audience. You just need to really touch into and this is something that, you know, we've been talking about just about every episode Kyle is you really need to tap into who your audience is and what they and and what they want.
And really listen to that audience. I mean, you know, you're making 2000 and you only have 559 people. Contributing to your to your show. That's fantastic. You know, that's that's that's a doable thing. I remember Kyle, when we first hooked up a long time ago and you were teaching your class, you were saying, hey, listen, if you get, you know, 20 20 subscribers,
think of that in a room. Now, you know, every everybody that's listening here, think about if you had 20 people in the room with you right now listening to it, That's a classroom right there. Yes. Think about, you know, you can imagine 560 people. You really can. I mean, you know, you it's It's like a high school auditorium. That's a high school auditorium. That's that's a good sized bar. Yeah.
With a, you know, with a small concert in there. Now, you know, you're looking at, you know, the big bad boys with, you know, 30, 40, 50000 Patreon subscribers. Okay. Maybe that's a little out of your reach, but 500,
you could probably pull that off. And not only can you pull it off, but, I mean, people say 3000 dollars. Oh, 3000 dollars. That's not a whole lot. Mean, how I can't pay more we even talked about that. Can't pay mortgage off 3000 per se. I mean, be if you have to split it with 3 hosts or you have a producer or you have all these other expenses,
I mean, 3000 dollars doesn't seem like a lot. Remember, this is 3000 dollars a month in addition to probably your day job. This is 3000 dollars I can pay for hosting. You can pay for gear. You can pay for all sorts of cool things like maybe pay for a cell phone bill. I heard this from from Michael O'Neil from this old renewal era we're talking about. Okay. Yeah. It doesn't pay for the Porsche. You can't get the Lambo off that kind of money, but you can pay for your cell phone bill. And if you can do a hobby on a side that pays cell phone bill or your cable bill, and we just talk about Hulu and Netflix on kind of stuff. You can pay for all your in for entertainment. Then you can go have a couple nice meals on.
And then you have, well, your day job money isn't getting chewed up. Now you actually have disposable income. Then you take the Gary V approach to this as well. 3000 dollars a month. Maybe you're living too fat. Maybe you need to cut back some expenses or 3000 dollars a month is pretty good where you can make you just, like, you'll just live a very humble life where you're building an audience off this in the slow burn, the marathon
of this. 3000 becomes 4000 or 5000. But if you take the Chapo Trap House approach or not only are you doing the Patreon and making a little bit of scratch on the side, but they're shelling t shirts, bonus episodes, and books, and live appearances, you can start to turn 3000 dollars into 30000 dollars very very easily if you continue to work your ladder of giving people to come in with more and more and more content. I think Kyle, I I like Formula.
I'd like our friends that are on the other side of the microphone here to go through your Facebook account. Go through your Twitter account. Go through your LinkedIn account. How many people are there? I know for I know for me and my LinkedIn account. Which is, you know, where I have actual physical contact with these people at least once every year, I'm at about 350 people. Just on my LinkedIn account. And I don't know if I'm out there too. Yeah. Okay. My Facebook account,
I trim that back every so often. Yeah. It's like a beard. You gotta trim it every so often. Right? You know, I've I've got probably about 500 people on there. 250 that I know very well. And then the other 2 50 are people that just kind of, you know, are hangers on and and, you know, get happy at every word I produce or every picture of my girls that I put out there. You can look at the network you've already built
and start you could start with that network and have, you know, your your your cousin lesson, and BAP transporter. You have your mom less, and BAP transporter and all that. Doesn't hey, the money doesn't matter where it comes from. Just just go out there. And if if you're about, you know, monetizing your podcasts,
knock it off. Why not? Start with the network that you already have. And then build from there. And our author Jack does talk about how he didn't have time to look at the numbers of people when we went back to the Twitter thing -- Mhmm. -- about Instagram and Facebook and other social media avenues. So you just tweets alone. These people were were crazy with tweets. So they're probably exploring other social media avenues. And, you know, in a in a kind of a what do they call that inside baseball
on the whole social media thing. Some of these people are using some software like meat, egg, or something that's producing the social media tweets automatically. They're putting some software in there to help some of the automation. So they're not necessarily tweeting all the time, even though they're very active, they're very active and responsive to their Twitter. Tender followers.
But they're not always doing it themselves. So to take that into account, there is some help out there. But I think the the the thing about, like, PodRact, our our whole goal is to help you not make mistakes and to learn things that will help your paint your podcast better. And this is this recipe, this formula, does really kind of talk about how engagement with the part with your customer with your with your listeners is really the key
to a lot of this monetization problems. How do I monetize my podcast? Well, you have to create something that matters and that's interesting that in the niche and that people like and then you have to double down with some of these strategies. But as we said, think about the things that they do. They're not doing it episode 2. They're not doing episode 7. They're not doing episode 12.
40 is like the entry point that just getting is kind of like some traction. Some of these people are in the 2 hundreds and 3 hundreds. Some of these people are up in the 5 and 6 and maybe in the thousands. They've been doing this for a while. The audience building game is not something that happens overnight. So you cannot smash your boat up against the rocks after episode 2 and say, This podcasting thing's a gimmick. I can't do it. That's baloney.
Just like everything, the overnight success takes 10 years. Podcasting is no different. In fact, I would even say 18 to 36 months worth of podcasting every week is kind of the tempo you need to be hitting in order to get some traction on this. Now, there'll be times. You're gonna be frustrated. You're gonna not wanna do this stuff. But the formula's there. B. If you get off track, take a breath, just get back on track. You know? Everyone's gonna have a moment. Here's the formula.
Doesn't get any more simpler than this. And let's get it then that I'm gonna put it back over to you, Tim, to to finish this off in observation 6, but I think that's really kind of the takeaway on this, is here's a bunch of strategies. But if you give up after episode 2, well, then, you know, I can't help you. And Kyle, you know, with with that, I'm I'm I'm gonna take that punt and and do what the ramps should have done to other people. Oh. You know, you gotta touch down her for 3.
Laces out, my friend, laces out. But there there are some podcasts that are making making their living by being subscription own only. Oh, this sounds like a This sounds like an episode we did once and we talked about this. Didn't we? We did talk about this. And, you know, you're reading through this. I'm thinking
think of the day think of the early days of cable TV, you know, go back with me because kids We didn't always have cable TV. For some of you out there, yeah, cable TV didn't always exist. But when it when it started when coming out, people like, oh, I gotta pay for this. It wasn't too bad. And then HBO came out and you had to pay extra for HBO. And it was Not everybody had it.
And HBO was, you know, if you knew the kid on the block that hit HBO. You're all at his house. Oh, yes. The school kid. Yep. That's awesome. A lot of friends in the fifth grade. Well, that's how I saw alien for the first time -- Oh. -- scared, you know, crapless. And I thought my parents were gonna catch me, you know, over at my friend's house. I can still remember the guy. His name was Ken, and he was the only kid on the block that had HBO. Now he was a scumbag of a kid of a guy.
But I didn't care. I got to watch aliens in, you know, at at night, 2 houses down from my house, and I thought that was the greatest things in sliced bread. Same things happening with some podcasts out there. They're making their living by just going for a subscription based
to go with with no free option. And if that's, you know, if you already have a good audience following for what you're doing, that may be enough to sustain you. Now that's tough. It it sounds like a tough way to go because you kinda have to already be established in order to do this. I've seen some audio drama people go down this road, and I've seen a lot of them start to pop their stuff out to be free and then try the the the subscribe not the scrubber of this sponsor or advertiser model because this seems like a challenge.
It can be a challenge, and I'm relating back to a lot of stuff that Seth Godin says about the, you know, you you wanna put your stuff out to the smallest sustainable audience. So you gotta figure out first and foremost what this is worth to you, what you need to make off of your podcast. And then that will guide you on what you need to charge and how to relate to your audience. So kind of going at it a little bit backwards
you know, if I'm gonna do a podcast, if I'm, you know, of all about just monetizing it. I don't care about anything else. I wanna make money off of this. That might be a way for you to go if you already have a good media presence out there and good audience out there that you can tap into, and they're willing to go ahead and and buy into it. Those are few and far between, and they don't get much press and publicity because they're very exclusive.
And and they don't want they don't want all the riffraff of every of all of us. They want they're certain audience. They're feeding their certain audience. They're going to pander to that audience because they know that audience is gonna give them money. And Seth Gaiden, hundred bucks. Thank you, Seth. And really kind of to polish this off. This is the recipe. This is the recipe for 1 way to become a full time podcaster, to make a living off of doing this for the, you know, for your career.
And it really is is create a show people will love, which of course sounds easy. Right? Make over 40 episodes Beasecake. Tweet thousands of times. No problem. Create a Patreon account. Gonna have to have 1 of those and then give bonus hope episodes as rewards as people pay for you. Pay you. Make tons of money and keep it up all year. I mean, super you know, okay, I'm being sarcastic.
Not super easy. This is hard work. This is very much our work. Creative I mean, creating a show people will love is is in this article, it says that's the real hard part. I disagree. I think it is also
a hard part because making over 40 episodes I think is the other hard part of sticking with it of actually trying to make this into something you want to do. Because a lot of people, I think, start with a few episodes and give up or do a few episodes and realize it's not for them because podcasting is not for everybody.
And some people find out very quickly. It's not for them. And that's why 40 episodes really kind of the benchmark of these people kind of figuring out. That's kinda where you kinda get your your stride. You kinda start thinking, alright, I think I know what the heck my show is actually about now at 40 episodes. And that's right around the time. You'll
you'll you'll get past the first pod fades in around 40 or fifties where you're gonna hit the next 1 when people are like, oh my gosh, oh, let's work, and I'm not making any money, and no one's listening to me. So why am I doing this? It happens to everybody. But creating of show people love, that's a difficult thing, which is why design and actually, you know, mission vision matter. Getting deep into the roots really matter. So the this is a great formula,
but you still need the fundamentals. You still need to go and create something value can't just throw this together. You can't just wing it. And although the Chapo Trap House guys, you may listen to them. It sounds like they're winging it. I guarantee you that there is something there in listening to it a little more structured than they're letting on.
And and I'm gonna I'm gonna kick this back to you, Tim, and the the improv hat here of how, you know, improv is not you know, a bunch of people getting around and just like, you know, Wahoo! Wahoo! Wahoo! Wahoo! Wahoo! Wahoo! Wahoo! It's not that at all. It's actually work. And some of those podcasts, although sound like complete chaos are really structured and see if you can tie all that in. There you go. There's a challenge. Alright. The bar sets
There's a challenge, David. How do you create a show people will love? What's the what do you think the the secret is to that? Well, to start off with the improv, point there, Kyle. Having done improv out in Chicago myself, the thing of it is there's a lot of practice and there's a lot of trust between the people on stage. There's a lot of trust. There's a lot of almost mind reading with a podcast host. That happen.
You you almost don't even need hand signals once you've been doing it long enough. But you you have to have that trust and then that trust goes out to the audience members. And they are trusting what you're saying, the content that you're providing. They trust that you're gonna be there, weekend and week out And when they see when they see a good track record, and this is where it's coming into, how do you make this successful?
When you see a good track record, of a show with consistently really good quality, then you're more likely to go ahead and dip into your wallet and go, hey, listen, I'm I can toss 5 bucks. That's nothing at all. You know, I I got a good chunk, a lot of these guys. I've got something over on everybody else in the office that I know that, you know, everybody else in the office isn't listening to it, but I've got it, or
I'm going to present it to, you know, my people in the office and and be I'll be the cool guy. I'll be the guy that watch a Saturday night live when it first came out and was telling all the jokes and was like, hey, you know, there's you know that. And that was the cool guy at the water cooler. And now these days, obviously, you know, Saturday Night Live hasn't put out anything good in 20 years. But
You know, it's, you know, how many years old it came out in the seventies. So it's almost as old as I am. And everywhere. I think you're you're a joke too. If you if you're inside the joke, you can bring it out like, oh, yeah. You hear my new joke and you're like, you're so funny and don't realize that you you heard it on the the subscriber side of the the podcast line. Absolutely. Everyone wants to be popular. Everyone wants to be part of that crowd.
And if you make it an exclusivity like that, that hey, only cool kids are allowed, you know, to sit at the cafeteria table on on this side of the cafeteria. Then people are gonna want that. And like I said, eventually, everyone's a cool kid, so there are no cool kids. So you gotta watch out for that for yourself.
So it's really a fOMO thing. A fear of missing out is what they're kind of generating this whole, like, they have a secret and you need to be in on the secret. And if you're not, what are you missing?
There's I think there's a lot to that. There's a little psychology in there too of having bonus episodes that you have to get by paying them. And 5 dollars doesn't seem like a lot of money. And if you like them and you're a fan, I mean, I'm a 5 dollar patron subscriber to ask the podcast coach because I think the content they put out is really beneficial. In every episode, I learned something. Something about that show, they'll talk about something. If it's just a throwaway sentence, I'll be like, oh, I didn't I didn't know that.
Let me go let me go look at that some more. So really some of these shows, especially the the ones that not just the, you know, the the bar laughter pub thing, like Chapa trap house, that's your thing, the humor thing. Some people just need a good laugh in their life. Maybe that's what you listen to, because where you work or what you do for a living is not fun. You need, like, laughter going on in your headphones, ear in your ear holes. But some patrons are educational.
They're teaching you something. It's inspirational, spiritual. Where the bonus content is is that you just can't stop, unless you just you don't care how many episodes are. That you've gone through all their episodes and you want more and more and more and more. You just you just can't get enough of that content and that's the kind of show you wanna create I create that show where everyone wants more. Give, give, give, give, give, give, give, give, then sell. I mean, that is the strategy
that many of these marketers talk about. But in this article, Jack really lays it out. If you do the hard work, and your show is good because you put the work into making it good, you have the real good potential of actually making some money at this. But it doesn't come free and it doesn't come right away. The overnight success took 10 years. That is I have that written on my wall for a reason because no 1 understands the hard slog until they've
done the 10 year hard slog. And they're like, how did you do it? It's so amazing. You came out of nowhere. You're like, no, I didn't.
No. I did not come out of nowhere, but thank you. I appreciate that. Do you think that? That's our show for today. Fellow listener. Thank you for for joining us for Pod rack. Any last words, Tim? What do you you think we I think we've we've we've definitely checked the show notes for this article and and see if this recipe works for you and maybe you could tweak your own show. I I would just say that folks it's important to think about that monetization for yourself.
Think about the work that you're gonna have to put into it. Dave Jackson a while back. Head is a monthly question, and I threw out there, hey, I'm gonna start a few more shows. And he goes, yeah. But what are you gonna give up in order to do those shows? You're gonna have to work for that money. You're gonna have to provide that content on a consistent basis because there are 650000 other com potential competitors that you have out there that you're gonna have to deal with.
You're you're listening to 1 of them right now. Obviously, you enjoy what you're listening to. We want to open this up to you by getting getting your thoughts and ideas in in dreams at pod rack at gmail dot com. Obviously, hit the website pod rack dot com. To go ahead and get the show notes, see our bios, see our wonderful faces, and get all the information there. But we put in the work So that way, you can avoid
a lot of the pitfalls, a lot of the shipwrecks, a lot of the wreckage that is out there, and we want you to be successful as you can be. Do a little heavy lifting for you. We do the research there for you. We hope you take this research and run with it. And hey, you know, go beat Jill rogue and go beat Comptown. By all means, go beat Chapo Trap House and do it in a way that you're gonna feel good about yourself and you know, hey, make a little extra dough on the on the side. Wide eyes.
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