Got dreams of being a professional podcaster, but have no idea what you're doing. This is impossible. That's about to change. A new kind of school. Welcome to the Pod School Podcast. Hello, welcome to the podcast. Today I'm answering a question from Anthony who said, can you use music in your podcast? What a great and timely question. I'mansweringaquestionfromAnthony: Can you usemusicin yourpodcast?answeringaquestion fromAnthonywhosaid,canyouuse
musicinyourpodcast?Whatagreatandtimelyquestion.Thisisbecausepodcastlicensingandthelegalitiesaroundthisindustryhavebeenalittleslowtocatch uptotheprogressofshowsandmonetizationandeverything.AndI'vesaidfora lot yearslikethere'sareckoningacoming becausethere'salotofpeoplethathavemusicintheirpodcasts.AndoftenwhenI say topeople,youcan'tputmusicintheirpodcast,they'relike,butthatpersonovertheredoesit.AndI'mlike,Idon'tknowhowthey're
doingitunlesstheyarehemorrhagingmoneyinlicensingfees.AndIkindofgetthesensethatthat'sprobablynotwhat'shappening.So Iwant totakeyouthroughafewthingstodayaroundwhyyou'dusemusicwhen
you'dusemusic,whatyouneedtothinkoffromalicensingperspectivesothatyoucanasenseofwhatismusicforinyourshow.Apodcastisobviouslyverydifferentfromaradioshow,butIthinkthattraditionalfeelingthatpeoplehavewhenthey'resortofmovingintopodcastingfresh,they'vestillgotthatradiokindoflensonit.Andthey'relike,butwithpurpose✅Makesureittothelistenerexperience✅Beintentional,notindulgentNowenough.Sothat'swhyitain'teasy.Soyougottofillthat20minutesorhoweverlongitiswithcontentthatdoesn'thaveanymusicthatmighthaveadbreaks.Butessentiallymusicisnottherecareassomethingthatisbreakingupyourcontent.Solet'sstartwithwhyyouwouldusemusicinyourpodcast.Thefirstthingisifyouneedtosetatoneinanyway.Nowthatcouldbeassimpleasyourintroandoutromusic.AndthisisthemusicIthinkyoumusthaveonyourshow.Youdon'tneedaveryoverproducedintrowithvoiceover.Youcanhavethat.That'stotallyfine.You'llnoticeonmyshowIhaveavoiceoverthatintroducestheconceptandgetsthetaglineoutoftheway.Youcandothingslikethat.Oronmyothershow,meandmytinyhuman,IjusthaveintromusicandIcomeinandsayhi.AndonmostoftheshowsthatI'veworkedonprofessionally,lookingafternetworks,wejusthaveintromusic,honestly,andthatistotallyfine.Buthavingthatintroandoutromusicislikethebowonyourpieceofaudio.Itisreallyimportanttohavethatmusictomakeyourshowsoundfinished,butalsotosetthetoneforthecontent.Sothatcanbereallysimpleuseofmusic.Youcanjusthavetheintro,itsetsthetoneforyourcontentandthenyouspeakfortheentireepisodeandthenyouhavesomeoutromusicattheendwhichmatchesyourintro.Youwanttohavethatasthesamepieceofmusic.Ifyouaredoingsomethingthat'smoreinthestorytellingspace,yourtruecrime,younoticethatmusicisabigpartofthoseshowsbecauseyouhavetobringtheaudiencealongonthejourneyandmusicisabigwaytodothat.Soifyouaredoinganythinglikethat,andyoudon'thavetobedoingafullnarrativeortruecrimeshowtointroducemusic,really,youcanbeascreativeasyourshowlikeapro.That’sitfortoday—seeyounextweek!That’sitfortoday—seeyounextweek!Thisis
becausepodcastlicensing andthelegalities aroundthis industryhavebeenalittleslow tocatchupto theprogress ofshows andmonetizationand everything.AndI'vesaidforalotyearslikethere'sa reckoning acomingbecausethere'salotofpeople thathavemusic intheirpodcasts. Andoftenwhen Isaytopeople,youcan'tputmusicin theirpodcast,they'relike,but thatpersonovertheredoesit.AndI'mlike,Idon'tknowhowthey'redoingit unlesstheyarehemorrhagingmoneyin licensingfees.
AndI kindofgetthe sensethat that'sprobablynotwhat'shappening. So Iwanttotakeyouthroughafewthingstodayaroundwhyyou'dusemusic whenyou'dusemusic,what youneedtothink offroma licensing perspectivesothat you cana senseofwhatis musicfor in your show.Apodcast isobviouslyverydifferentfromaradioshow,butIthink thattraditionalfeelingthatpeoplehavewhenthey'resortof movingintopodcasting fresh,they'vestillgotthatradiokindoflensonit.Andthey'relike,butisn'tsomemusicsupposedto come inatsome
point?You'relike,nah,here'sthe tip.Yourcontenthastobestrongenough.Sothat'swhyitain'teasy.Soyougotto fillthat20minutesorhoweverlongitiswithcontentthatdoesn'thaveanymusicthatmight haveadbreaks.Butessentially musicis nottherecareassomethingthat isbreakingupyourcontent. Solet's startwithwhy youwould usemusicinyourpodcast.The firstthingis if youneedtosetatone inanyway.Nowthatcouldbe assimpleas
yourintroandoutromusic.AndthisisthemusicIthinkyoumusthaveonyourshow.Youdon'tneedavery overproducedintro withvoiceover.Youcanhavethat. That'stotally fine.You'llnoticeonmyshowIhaveavoiceoverthatintroducestheconceptandgets thetaglineoutofthe way.Youcandothingslikethat.Oronmyothershow,meandmytinyhuman,Ijust have intromusic andI comein andsayhi. Andonmostoftheshows that I'veworkedonprofessionally, lookingafter networks,we just haveintromusic,honestly,andthatistotallyfine.Buthavingthat
introandoutromusicislikethebowonyourpieceofaudio.Itis reallyimportanttohavethatmusictomakeyour show sound finished,butalsotosetthetonefor the content.So thatcanbereallysimpleuseof music.Youcanjusthavethe intro,itsets thetoneforyour contentandthenyouspeakfortheentireepisodeandthenyouhavesomeoutromusicat theend whichmatchesyour intro.Youwanttohavethatasthesame piece
ofmusic.Ifyouaredoingsomething that'smore inthestorytellingspace,yourtruecrime,younotice that musicis abigpartof thoseshowsbecauseyouhaveto bringtheaudiencealongon thejourney andmusicisabig way todo that.Soif youaredoinganythinglikethat,and youdon'thavetobedoingafull narrativeortruecrimeshowtointroducemusic,really,you canbeascreativeas youlikehere.But thequestion isalways,isthisaddingsomethingfortheaudienceoris itadistraction?If it'sadistraction,forgetaboutit.Ifit isadding something,
great,that'swhatyouwant.Sothinkaboutthatwhenyou're thinkingaboutsetting the tone.AlotofpeopleIseemake thismistake,andthatis thatthey talkandtheirpodcastis justaconversationalpodcast.Itmightjustbethem talking, itmight betwopeopletalkingandtheyput somemusicunderit because theythinkthatiswhatkeepsthe contentinteresting.It'srealannoying afterabout10secondsinwhenyou realize,oh,there's
musicplayingunderthisentire30minutes.Ifyourcontentisnotstrongenoughto keep somebodyengagedwithoutputtingmusicunder it,youneedtorethinkyour content.Sodefinitelydon'tbe doingthatjustbecauseyou'relike,I've gottohaveamusicbedunderheretomake itsoundinterestingandengaging.Yes,youmighthaveheardthat onradiobecausepeopledolike 30secondspeedbreaks and they havemusicunder.Andthat'sbecause theenergyofaradioshow showanda radionetwork ismuchmoresortof amplified thanthatconversational toneof apodcast.
Sodon'ttripupinterms ofthinkingyouneedtoputmusicunderyour contenttokeeppeoplelisteningbecauseactuallyit gets reallyannoyingafter afewseconds.Theother thingthat you'dbethinkingabout intermsofmusicis ifyouwantedto elevatetheproductionvalueofyourshow.Again,this ismore applicabletostorytelling.Truecrime fiction.Thosekindofthings. Butifthatis animportantthingforhowyouneedto convey your idea toyouraudience,thenthat'sa reallygoodwayto doitaswell.Again,must
benecessaryandaddingsomethingratherthandistracting.It'salsoyouraudio logo.So asImentioned,withthatintro and outro,itisagreatwayforpeopletogo,oop,and nowI'minthezoneforthecontent.Theywill starttoassociate yourmusicwithyourshowandyour brand.Itwillstarttobesomethingtheybecome very familiarwith.Youlikelydon'treallywant tochangeit. Youcan, ofcourse,butifit'sbecometheidentity ofyourshow,you can use itonallsortsofthingsaround
yourshow.And thataudiologo,andthataudioidentityforashow issoimportantbecause youcan'tseeit.Alotofpeoplejustdiscountit. Butevenforbrands,thataudiokind oftriggerthat.AlotofbrandsusetheNetflixthingthat youwouldheareverytimeyouturnNetflixon,those become identifiersand thisis sort ofyourversionwithyourshow.So, yeah,youcancreatesomethingthatthat'smorelikethe Netflixlogo orfeelsmorelikeanaudiobrandifyouwant to.Butareallysimplewayofdoingthatistojust
putintroandoutromusiconyourtrack.So that's areally important thing.But asalways, alwaysmustbeusedwithpurpose, notjustto jazzup somecrappycontent.That'snotwhatmusicistherefor. Itcannotpolishtheturd.Itcannot.Itcan maketheturd sounddistractingandlike,whyistheremusichere?Butit'snotgoing tomakethe contentsoundanybetter.I'msorry.Ifyoudofindthat youhavethekindof contentthatwouldwarrantthis kindofstuffandwould soundreallygoodwithit, justbe
carefulthatyoudon'toveruseit.Itcangetalittlebitlike, oh,okay,we'llmoveinto thisbitofmusicandthis bitofmusicandthisbit ofmusic. Just useitsparingly.Reallyputitthrough thatlensof isthisaddinganything? Is thisnecessary?Orhave Ijust goneabitrogue withthemusic licensinglogin andIneedtopairitback alittle bit.Anotherplaceyoureally wanttoput music is
inyouradbreaks.Ifyou're putting adsinto yourcontent,thenyouwanttomakesurethatyou'vegotsomeunderthose adsbecauseit'sareally simplesignifierofthis isaseparate pieceofcontent.You wantyouraudience,ideally, tounderstandwhichparts ofyourshowarecommercialandwhichpartsarenot.Yes.Youcanintegratebrandsintoyourcontentin areallyseamlesswaythatsoundslikeitisagreatpartofyour show, but youdon't everwantit tosound like,oh,Iaccidentally spokeaboutthisthingbecause somebody'spayingmeto doit.Butit'snot.
It'snotreallyanad,butitis.Musicisareallygoodwayjustto separateoutyourcommercialcontentfromyoureditorialcontent.AndIwouldsay, youknow,it's reallyimportantthatthatcommercialcontent stillsoundsexcellent. Youstillwantpeopleto listenthroughtheads.Yes,theycanskip,butthewhole idea oftryingto createreallysolid advertisingcontentin your podcastistotryand getthem nottodothat.But youdoneedsomekindof audiosignifiertosay,hey,thisisanadandmusiccanbeagreatwayto dothat.It'salsoareallygood ideatousealittle bitof
music.It'snotreallyasting.It'slikelittletiny,almostabridgethatyoucanputattheend ofasentence.Ifyou,especiallyif you'vegotan episodethat's sortof goingon.It'snot, it'snotrecordedin segments.Sothere'snocleanplaceto putan adbreakif you've just gota30,40 minuteconversationwithsomeone.You're goingtohave
tofindsomewhereinthatcontentifyou'regoingtohaveanadbreaktoputthatadbreak.Soratherthanitjust stoppingat theendofasentenceandthenrollingstraightintoanadbreakwithmusic, it'sareally goodideatotakea littlepieceofyourintrooutro music and, and createthislittlesortof bridgethat'sjustasofteninginto thead break.Soit justeasesthe transitionforanaudiencetheyknow,oh,okay,an adbreak's coming.Ratherthanfinishingyoursentenceandthenbuythis
rugonsale.Itsortof canbealittle jarringthatway,depending,especiallyifyou are usingdynamicallyservedads.Ifyouare onanetwork,orevenifyou're usingSpotifyadsorsomethingwhereyoudon'thavecontroloverthe creative,you'vegot noidea what'srollingintothatshow. Itcould beaveryloud,very obnoxiousad andyouwant tomakesure thatthere'ssome kindoftransitionintothat adbreak.Andthatlittlebridgeofmusiccanreally helptodothat.Intermsof when musiccanbeadistraction,IthinkI'vecoveredthat offprettyclearly.
Ifthere Isnopurpose other thanIjustthink thismight needa bitofjazzing up.Get itoutofthere, youknow.And donotfallintothetrapofputtingmusic underyourwholepodcast.Ihearthathappensooften and I'mlike,this is.This isnot whatweneed.Reallythinkaboutsittingdownwith alistenerandhavingaconversationwiththem.If yousat down to dinner with somebodyandtheypulledouttheirSpotifyplaylist to put abedundertheirconversation,it'dbelike, whatarewe doinghere?Whatisthis?Thisisreally
annoying.You'dbelookingatthephonethewholetimethinking,are they goingto stopthatatanypointintime?Havetheyforgotten it'son?Sothat's thesamekind of vibeyou'regivingtoyouraudienceifyou'vegot randommusic playingfor noreasonunderneath thestuffthatyou'retalkingabout.Let's talkabout thelegalitiesnow because.Oh,isn'tthatafuntopic?Andinterestingbecausealotofthatisstarting to catch up. Spotifyinparticularisa platform. Obviously they have theirown interestin musicrightsfor their business model.
They arestartingto pull downepisodesofftheirplatformifthereareanyissueswithmusiclicensing.Andyouwould get anotificationif you havemusic inthere.Andyou'll havetosay,yes,Iownthelicense oryes,I'mgoingto takethistrackofforI'lljusttakeitdown.Soifyou'vegotcontentthat hasmusicinthere,it's goingtobepulledoff at somepoint.Even ifthat's justatthemoment,itseems tojustbe happeningintheUSIt'llhappen in other jurisdictionsforsure.
Thetime is acoming andyoujustdon'twant togetintoasituationwhere you'relike,oh,I'vegotalltheseepisodes upthere thatnowcannotnolongerexistorI'vegottogoinandheavenforbidreeditthembecauseI'vegot toremove themusicoutofthem.Soyouwanttomakesurethatifyouaregoingtouseanymusicforanyreason,youowntherightstothat music.And thereareplentyofsites
outtherethatyoucangetmusicon.Therearesomefreesites.Iwouldjustsayifyouaregonnagetfreemusic,makesureyouhavereadthoseT'sandC'sclearly.And let's behonest,we'reallalittleguiltyof notreadingthe T's and C'scause theymakeemlong sowewon'treadthem.Soifyouaregonnago free. Makesureyouknowthat thatpiece ofmusic can be used inmultipleepisodes overalongperiod oftime.Someofthefineprintmightsayyoucanonlyusethisonce.
Wellthat stuffs yacauseyougotmorethanoneepisodeoryou canonlyusethisfora yearoryoucan onlyusethismonthoryoucan'tusethis. Ifthere'sanycommercial content inyourcontentand youmighthaveadbreaks,there'sallsortsofdifferentways thatthey sliceit.Soyoujustwanttomake sureifyou'regoingtogodown thefreeroad,youknowwhat youarenot payingforanddownthe paid pathagain,youstillhaveto readtheT's and C's oratleastunderstandwhatthe license isfor.Soyou don'tneed tonecessarily.Imean it'salwaysgood.
I'mnotgoingtosaydon'treadthe T'sand C'sbecausethat'spoorlegaladvice,even thoughI'mnotalawyer.Butitwillusuallygiveyoualittleblurbof whatthemusicthatyou're purchasingcanbeusedfor. And it'sreallyimportanttounderstandthatbecauseagain,itmightbeyoucanonlyusethisforayearora number of otherthings.It might say youcan'tuseitfor commercialcontent.Somaybeifyou'remakingyourownads,youcan'tactuallyusethatmusic forthatcommercialcontent.Soit'sreallyimportantthat you understandthatand thatyou aregettingmusic
thatyoucanactuallyuse.Because nowthatAIhasenteredthegame,youarenotwaiting forsomebodyto hearanepisodeandsaythatsoundsfamiliar.This techisjusttrawling throughcountlesspodcastsand that'showSpotify iskindofpingingit.And sogone arethedayswhereyoucanhidein plainsight.Youreally needtomake surethatyou'vezippedupallyourlegalsinthisspace andthereareplentyofplacesthatyou canbuymusicandyou canget licenses for podcastspecific
librarieslikeEpidemicSound.So thenyoucanactuallyjustpay alicenseandyoucanuseasmuch sortofmusicas youwanttointhat. Again,Ithinkyouhaveto keepthelicensetokeepusing themusic.That'showsting yousometimes.Somaybeit'sjustbetterofftobuy off aoneofflicensethatyou canuse ongoing.Butaslongasyouunderstandthatstuff,that'sreallyimportant.Pleasedo notfindyourfavorite Beyonce trackonthe interwebs andputitintoyourPodcastthatisnot allowed.Andthethingabout musiclicensingthat'sreallyannoying
isit'snotjustoneplace.Like,ifyou'reusingpopularmusic,differentsituation.Ifyou're usingstuffonlinethat'sdesignedtobe usedforthiskindofstuff,yougo toone website,yougeta licenseforit. That'sit. Ifyouaregoingto use atrackthat wasontheradio,the number ofdifferent licenses,there'spublishinglicenses,there'slicenses.Soyou'vegot togetlicenses fromall ofthe different holdersorallofthelicensestobeabletoplaythat specificthing. AndIjust don'tthinkthatanybodyoutsideofmaybeJoeRoganismakingenoughmoneyto begoing
downthatpath.Andit'sjustnotworthit.Icantellyourightnow,people canlistentotheradio,theycanlistentoSpotify.Theydon'tneedtohearBeyonceinyour podcast.You.Youcanbring somethingelse.Beyonce'sgot aplentyof places that Beyoncecanbeplayed.Shedoesn'tneed tobeplayedinyour podcast.So donotuse anypopularmusicthatyoudo notuse. Theright. No.Owntherightsto.Becausethatwillgetyou intotroubleandyoujustcan'tbebothered.It's not worthit.You know,reallynotworthit.Final thing I'd say isjustaroundAI
musicgenerators,theseareanewthing.I have hadacoupleofissues withthemusicthat wehaveusedonshowsbeingpinged by platforms like Spotifytosay,hey,excuseme,youdon'town the licenseforthis. Andthenwewouldgo inandgo,well,yeah, we do.Wepaidforthelicensethroughthis specificplatform.Andthenwhenwekindof digalittledeeper,wefindthatit's potentiallyfromsomebodywho'stakenthetracksthatarelicensed throughthisplatform,feditintoAIandsaid, canyoumakeme somethingthatsoundslike
this?Anditspatoutsomething,andit's pingingthatthelicensingisownedbysomebodyelsewhenit'sactuallyownedbythis individual. SoI just amnotatthepoint where,for me,musiclicensingfrom anAIperspective,unlessagain,you'vereadthroughtheT'sandC'sandit'swatertight.I'm justnotcomfortablewith that atthemomentbecauseI thinkespeciallyifyouarefeeding into it,ifyou'remakingsomethingfromscratch,buteventhenit'spullingfrom thingsthatalreadyexist.So Ithinkit'salittle toomurky,andI
avoidAImusicatthispointintime.Anyway,IjustthinkfromwhatI've seenintermsof some ofthetracks beinghighlightedandthequestion whenwe're goingbacktothemlegallyis, isthis.Wasthis createdfrom AI?Like,didyou actuallypullthetracksthatwe own orthatwe'velicensedintoanAI creatorandspatoutsomethingelse?Andthat'swhat'shappened.SoIwouldjust avoidthat.Gowithsomethingthatyou canpayfor and thatyou canknowthat you owntherightsto.And thatcan
beamuchsimplerprocess.So,finally,wrappingup, make surethat youhaveaskedyourselfthequestion,isthispieceof music helping or hurting my piece of content? Is it necessary? Is there a purpose here? Am I overusing it? Have I gone nuts with the. With the login? Do I need to pair it back? Also, think about, do I have an audio logo and an intro and outro for my show? Very important. I think if you're going to use one piece of music, that is the piece of music to go for.
And then just focus on your content being as strong as it possibly can and sitting down and having a conversation with your audience. Don't be the person who's brought this Spotify playlist along and is talking to somebody while playing music under the background. Not. Not essential, you know, Hope that's helped. Thank you for the question, Anthony. If you have a question, you can always head to the link in the description of this episode if you want to get some help setting up your podcast.
I also have an equipment guide that's linked in the description as well, so that just details all the tools and tech that you need to get set up nice and fast. And I also have an online podcasting course called PodSchool that you can check out. And the link is again in the description with everything else in one place. How great is that? Thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you next week. That's all for today.