It's Friday , the 11th of April 2025 .
The last word in podcasting news . This is the Pod News Weekly Review with James Cridland and Sam Sethi .
I'm .
James Cridland , the editor of Pod News , and I'm Sam Sethi , the CEO of TrueFox .
As many solo podcasters know , it can be a really lonely sport at times .
So being with people that go through the same things because you know it's one thing talking to your partner , but if they're not a podcaster themselves , they still don't really understand what it's like- that's Emma Turner from the Independent Podcast Awards introducing the Independent Podcast Forum Plus in the chapters .
Today in the UK , three podcast production companies have announced a merger . There's an open measurement protocol for podcasting that's been asked for and automatic translations . This podcast is sponsored by Buzzsprout , with the tools , support and community to ensure you keep podcasting .
Start podcasting , keep podcasting with buzzsproutcom From your daily newsletter , the Pod News Weekly Review .
Now , james not that I can sing , but I feel like I have to do the Spice Girls . When three became one . There's a big announcement today . What is it ?
There is a big announcement . Yes , it came out yesterday , of course , but today , as we record , three podcast production companies have announced a merger , which is all very exciting . In the UK , they're talking about a podcast supergroup , which is exciting . Those three are all owned by PodX , platform Media , listen and Girlhawk .
Platform Media owns a brand called Folding Pocket for podcasting and they're all going to merge . They're going to be called Platform Media and the newly formed company claims eight figure revenues and 70% year-on-year growth , which is all very exciting .
To be honest , this is kind of what I was expecting PodX to be doing once they'd purchased a number of different companies in London , so I was kind of , you know , assuming that that would be the case . But yeah , they've finally put them together . It makes a bunch of sense , I think .
Yeah , I mean , is this the start of what PodX is going to do ? I mean , they own a ton of companies now Not all in the UK , obviously but are they going to take the other companies they have in the UK and bring them under the umbrella , do we think ?
I think this is all the companies that they've got in the UK . I know that they've got a ton of other companies elsewhere , and so what I suspect we might see is we might see companies that they own in specific countries being merged together .
But of course it makes little sense merging , for example , you know , platform Media in the UK together with a random company in Stockholm , for example . I mean , that seems to make less sense . But certainly in the UK actually merging them together seems to make quite a lot of sense .
It does sound as if Platform , listen and Goldhawk , or rather Folding Pocket , listen and Goldhawk , are going to be continuing to use those brands as kind of content labels , if you like . But yeah , 80 people in brand new offices in Farringdon . So I think that's all pretty cool .
Now , one thing I did note that they said they were going to be co-CEOs . That's quite a difficult thing to juggle , I think .
It is , yeah . So that's Matthew Sherry , who's currently CEO of the original Platform Media , and Josh Adley , who's Managing Director of Listen . They will both be co-CEOs of this larger company . Have you ever seen co-CEOs work well ?
No . Well , crikey , there you go . No is the answer , and I don't think when the buck stops , someone's got to take the final decision . And how does that happen ? But anyway , maybe they're going to break the mould and be the first to do it .
Well , maybe they're going to break the mould and be the first to do it . Well , maybe they will . We've interviewed Josh , we've interviewed Matthew and we've interviewed Stefan Rossell , who works at PodX , in this show before , so you'll find it in this feed . It's well worth a peek .
And all of these people are backed by Qualbo , which , as you might guess , no , is a Swedish-based global investment company and , yes , they seem to own all kinds of stuff . Do they own Haribo , the happy world of Qualbo ? Yes , I'm not so sure , but yeah , I think it makes total sense .
You know , you only need one HR department , you only need one invoicing department . Now , I think our conversations with Staffan in the past has been you know , essentially we will run all of that stuff , but I think actually merging them all together seems to make a fair amount of sense .
Apart from anything else , these companies , I'm sure , have been bidding against each other for certain things , and you know , and obviously all of that will go away , although sometimes that's a benefit , isn't it ?
Well , a couple of things . I noticed One that Stefan has moved up . He's now listed as founder and board director and they've got a new CEO , patrick Svenske . So , yes , might try and reach out to Patrick and see what he has to say . And then the other one is I guess with something like this , the whole is greater than the sum of the parts .
So it's what PodX's goal was , and I assume this is what they're going to keep doing , going forward . I wonder if they're going to acquire , doing , uh , going forward . I wonder if they're going to acquire more UK companies and maybe they haven't got any more , but I think they probably will then now they've got the structure .
Well , you know , uh , persefonica , that would be an interesting company to to acquire , wouldn't it ? What do you think ?
no , uh , no , I , I don't know , I don't know . Uh , I think I think we should be . Uh , no , I don't know . Actually , I don't know , I think we should be . No , I don't know , actually , I'm going to keep my mouth shut for once . Acast , that's it . I mean to be frank , they're Swedish .
Yes , and , to be frank , qualbo could afford them . Just so , yes , so that might be interesting . Yes , acast today , by the way , saying that they've just done a deal with Supercast for paid for subscriptions , which seems to make a bunch of sense .
They've not been able to properly offer that in the past , so being able to offer that now makes a bunch of sense , so that's very interesting .
Well , it goes along with the comment I made last week , which is I think people are now moving more to accepting that for quality content you're going to have to pay for it .
Yeah , I agree . I agree , we're definitely seeing that trend in Europe . Perhaps not in the US yet , but certainly in Europe . I'm sure that we're seeing that .
Now moving on Dan Granger . He spoke at Evolutions James and he asked the question what is a podcast ? Now this feels like it's old news because it was like a week ago , but what did he say ?
Yes , what is a podcast ? So actually he's done a bunch of work around the definition of a podcast . He was standing there and having a good old I mean almost rant on stage saying things like the stakes are nothing less than the sustainability of the entire channel and all of that , no , hyperbolic , hyperbolic , then . Yes , yes , no , exactly , I mean you know .
So from that point of view , that was very interesting to hear him talk about that .
But he was basically doing a bunch of research in what a podcast is in the sales side to be able to understand what a podcast is , because at the end of the day , we've got that $2 billion thing that we haven't yet hit for total revenue in the US , still haven't quite hit that number .
But of course , if the definition of a podcast changes , then it gets more difficult to explain what a podcast actually is , and so actually knowing what a podcast is , it's kind of useful for that sort of thing and for knowing where your budgets are going . So I can see why he's probably more interested and excited than anybody else about doing that .
I would say if it sounds like a podcast , or it looks like a podcast , it's a podcast . Move on . Yes , and I think that the difficulty is that actually that's not good enough , um , for you to be able to turn around and say , well , how much money has podcasting made last year ? Well , I mean , it's youtube podcasting .
If it is , then , um , then we've easily hit that two billion , so , yeah , let's do that then .
Um just do it fake it until you make it .
No , I mean , I guess most people say unless it's got rss distribution , it's not a podcast , and that's seems to be the the , the final straw on it that that's certainly a view um , it's not a view that I hold , but it's certainly a view that some people have is is that yes , you must have RSS to be a podcast ?
I mean , and I think Rob Walsh is right in saying Sorry , I know . I think Rob Walsh is right in saying that if you're not in Apple Podcasts , you're not a podcast . That's what he said on stage last week .
When does he start at Apple ?
When does he start at Apple ? That's what he said on stage last week . When does he start at Apple ? When does he start at Apple ? That's what he has said , and I probably agree with that too to a degree .
But at the end of the day , you know , I say from a usability point of view , a podcast is whatever your audience thinks it is , and it really is as simple as that . Having said that , he has a definition which he has researched . He's talked to a bunch of different people and there are two different definitions .
There's a technical definition which is very tedious and boring , but it sounds like an audio-driven on-demand programme rooted in the spoken word . Typically , episodic and conversational Podcasts cover wide-ranging themes and formats . They are accessed via open RSS feeds or other distribution platforms and often supplemented by video . Often Catchy that's catchy that .
That's going to take off .
So that's not going to take off , but I think that that is a good working . I think there are bits of it that I don't necessarily agree with , but I think that that's a good working . You know explanation of what a podcast is , but he's got a snappier one which is probably a little bit better , which is if it works with your eyes closed , it's a podcast .
And I quite like that actually I think that works .
Yeah , I think that works . Now , the thing about that Oxford Road report . I mean , I wasn't so excited about the first part of it and the clickbait of what is a podcast , but I did like the second part of it , which was he was asking for an open measurement protocol for podcasting . Now why do we need an open measurement protocol , james ?
What's the problem first , before we decide on what the solution is ?
Well . So his problem is he wants good measurement and as it stands at the moment , as we talked about in the Pod News report card last week , everybody's measuring different things .
Youtube has a different stat to Spotify , which has a different stat , to Apple , which has a different stat , to the IAB , which has a different stat for you know , various other things .
And that's not particularly helpful because , at the end of the day , all that we want to do in the podcast business , in the podcast industrial complex , is to go back to an advertiser and say here's how many people heard your ad , and that you know , and that's basically it . And you know , and you know , and that's basically it .
And you know here's roughly , if you're doing a branded podcast , here's how long your audience stayed with you . And we can't do that to a good degree with the current measurement that we have .
In that , you know , everybody's measuring a different thing , and so what Dan is saying is we need an open measurement protocol for podcasting to enable us to do consistent measurements across platforms .
Privacy , safe as well although that's an American talking , so their definition of privacy is a very different definition to you know people in other parts of the world . But anyway , privacy , safe measurement across platforms while maintaining creative and distribution flexibility .
Ie , it should work everywhere , it should be consistent and you should be able to get measurement back from it , and I think that that's a very bright thing . And he's basically saying we're not prescribing who leads . You know who's in charge of it . We are saying it needs to happen and I think you then frankly need somebody in charge of it .
The difficulty is , I think , with all of this is the IAB will turn around and go . If the IAB is doing their job properly , they will turn around and they will go . How can we make money out of this ? Turn around and they will go . How can we make money out of this ?
How could we have the IAB podcast , measurement guidelines version three , and everybody signs up and gives us lots of money , and so I'm not sure necessarily that the IAB is the right tool , is the right company for this , because I'm not sure that that will necessarily be the right way of doing things . So you know , we need probably a different way round that .
The question , I suppose , is well , what are those numbers going to be and how are those numbers going to be worked out ?
Not that we can talk about it in detail , but friend of the show , john Spurlock , is working on something to do with this Now . We would love to get John on , so we'll reach out to John , uh , when he's ready to announce it , but I think what is the metrics ? You know Dan Meisner from Bumper talks about it . You know downloads , not listen .
What are the type of metrics that we would want to share then , with the apps to host ? What are the hosts looking for from first party data ?
Well , and I think this is where the conversation needs to happen , because , to be honest , what would be helpful is you know , from the advertiser's side , what numbers do you want and from the creator's side , what numbers do you want . So , for example , knowing how long people listen through a particular show is very useful .
If you're a branded podcast , if you know that 75% of audiences stay until the end or near the end um 75% of audiences stay until until the end or near the end then that's um useful to be able to go back to your brand and say look , we're making great content because our audiences are sticking with us as well , of course , as working out , okay , what , what
you know , what are your daily listeners , what are the total listeners for this particular show ? How many followers does it have ? You know which would be useful as well . You know followers as well as total audience and that sort of stuff .
But I think it's you know , it's worth that conversation with all of the industry here to work out what sort of data you know we should be collecting on a , you know , on an open , you know , in an open fashion . I mean , what sort of data were you thinking about ?
Well , you and I have talked about it consistently over the last two years actually , so it's nice to see something coming to fruition . We've talked about listen time , percent completed and , obviously , value paid .
When you talk about micro payments , yeah , and I think those metrics , when aggregated , are then given back to uh from creators with permission to their host , then that's fine , I think . I think I can can't see Spotify or YouTube playing in this game yet . That first party data is their gold dust . I'm not sure they're going to give that away .
And that's the other concern . Yeah , exactly , I don't think you know , person by person , data is something that they would want to . Oh aggregated data . Oh aggregated data .
Well , I mean , youtube's is open anyway , so from that point of view , you can see plays , but the difficulty is , of course , that's YouTube plays not worked out in the way that we would like them to be worked out .
Exactly so . What we're saying is , if we have this show and we had X number of people listening and we could put an array of who listened , how long , when they dropped off , etc . Etc . But we aggregated that and then gave that back to buzzsprout , who had put it in our analytics .
Yeah , I mean why , if you could get that data from your app , um , would you want to give it to the host ? But anyway , some hosts , some apps , don't have a back end . So , okay , I understand that question myself . But , um , okay , so we would all give our data to the host .
The host would aggregate it from fountain , true fans , uh , over cars , pocket pc , etc . Etc . Which will give a holistic overview for the creator . That would then go to the advertiser , who would then say yeah , somebody heard my ad , somebody didn't hear my ad . I'm just trying to understand how this is going to evolve . I think it's the right way to go .
I just think it's got a lot of rough edges . No , I do agree and I think there is a difference . I don't think we'll ever get the how many people have heard my ad without talking directly ? I mean , you know you already get that .
If you're selling ads in a programmatic way , you already get that information anyway , because that's how many ads were stitched together , you know .
But I think , from a point of view of aggregate information , I think everything that you said there apart from the who listened , because nobody's going to give you that , but apart from the who listened if you look at just , you know , okay , you had 2,000 followers . This particular episode was listened to 400 times on Monday and 200 times on Tuesday .
That kind of information to be fed back to a whether it's a podcast host or whether it's to you know whoever else for them to then aggregate that information from Spotify , from YouTube , from pocket casts , from whoever it might be , that will be quite useful information and still allows those individual podcast apps like Spotify and YouTube to still keep things back
in terms of information on who those people were , in terms of information on who those people were in terms of demographic information .
You know all of that kind of stuff If the only thing that we're looking for are numbers in terms of a listener and in terms of , you know , followers and those sorts of things and potentially how long people get through the show on average , then I think that that's really all that most people would like , but it depends , you know , of course it depends on what
each individual stakeholder wants and how close we can get to that .
I think you're right . That's a good 101 step . Here's one question for you , james . Will people want that data when , let's say , your download number is wildly exaggerated based on the fact that Apple do auto downloads and your number is thousands and then actually you find out the actual listen time is hundreds or tens ? What are you going to do then ?
Well , I think this then means that you have to , in the same way as we have the IAB podcast measurement guidelines . Perhaps this is another form of expressing how many you know how large your audience is , and perhaps there is some form of a process there to you know , to show that you're calculating that accurately .
But you know being able to quote , you know let's call this the open measurement guidelines . To quote , you know , let's call this the open measurement guidelines , and these numbers are open measurement guideline compliant , and I've got X people tuned into this particular show . I agree that .
You know , one of the biggest problems I think that podcasting has is that , historically , all of our consumption data is private and nobody gets to see it . Now , you know , op3 makes it public and makes it visible to everybody . Youtube actually makes it public at least the total plays and makes that visible to everybody as well .
I wish that more people , and in fact , castbox and GoodPods and there are a few others make their consumption public as well . So let's make sure that there's more public data , but let's also make sure that you know we're just counting the same thing , because at the moment we're not .
Yeah , that's the critical part measuring apples , not oranges and apples . Anyway , james , should we move around the world and have a look at what's going on Over in Asia ? Iheart Podcast is to launch a slate of new podcasts . What are they doing , james ? That was very British of you , asia , asia . Over in Asia . One went to public school . One will say Asia .
Yes , exactly my word .
I'm an Indian , don't worry about it , you know .
So , yes , don't worry about it . You know so , yes , so iHeart Podcasts getting very excited and they are going to do two different things . They're working with a company called Mammoth Media in Asia and they are or Asia , if you prefer it , better that way and they are launching a whole set of new shows coming out of that part of the world .
But also , obviously , iheartmedia want to promote their own stuff in Asia as well . Tons of people , obviously . It's a massive part of the world in terms of population and so , yes , they are doing some interesting things going on there . Iheartmedia already um has uh expanded into um , the um the Middle East and North Africa as well .
Um , so you can kind of see that there's um some conversations going on just making sure that iHeart um content is available in the in the Asian um uh region as well . Uh , but uh , yeah , interesting to see a large US company , very much you know , growing outwards in terms of the potential audience that it's got .
Now hopefully I get this word right Germany Crikey .
Here we go .
Yes , german podcast company Podigy has launched a new AI-powered analytics tool . Do we need this , james ?
I mean , you know , so you can go to it and you can go . Hey , how many listeners did my latest episode have last week ? And it will come back and tell you if you're too stupid to press the buttons .
You might be driving and have a need immediately to know that number .
No , I mean , I can see that there might be some quite complicated things . I mean , the one thing I would say is that AI is not , at least currently , highlighted as being something that is very good at maths .
So if you ask AI to add up a column of figures , then it doesn't always get it right , which is a slight concern when you see AI powered analytics tool . But I do like the idea of being able to ask simple questions in natural language and it'll come back to you with what it hopes is the answer .
Look , I think we're going to have a conversation later on in the show about foreign language and translation , but I do think that AI and voice is actually . We are a voice medium after all with audio , so voice interfaces , I think , are going to be the natural extension in the future . Anyway , that's just me .
Yeah , no , indeed , I think you're probably right in some way . So , yes , I just find the whole thing fascinating . But yeah , what else is going on ? But yeah , what else is going on in Italy , roma Tre University , which is an italic , which is an italian public research university in Rome , in Italy . I'm trying to find out why it's called Roma Tre .
It genuinely is . Wow , it genuinely is , because I was going to make a joke about it was the third university in Rome . Do you know why it's called Roma Tre ? Because it's the third university in Rome .
So , where's Roma Due Genuinely yeah . Is there another one called Due , then yeah , who knows ?
Gosh Anyway , and Pope Francis has been there . Anyway , rometrae University . It's hosting the first European conference dedicated to podcasting as a tool for research , education and information . It's a very academic conference . It's taking place well as we speak . In fact , the event is called Knowledge in your Ears , which all sounds very exciting .
So I hope that they've had a good day yesterday and a good day today as well .
Whizzing over to the UK . Bristol-based podcast agency Earworm has secured £200,000 in investment . Congratulations .
Yeah , that's £200,000 or US$260,000 . And so congratulations to them . I like their logo , that's all I'll say . And Acast has held a capital markets day for investors setting updated financial targets for the company . Interestingly , first time that they have streamed that particular thing live from Acast Studios in London , so very nice too .
So do you remember when Daniel Ek did his last announcement of Spotify and we said , why don't they video broadcast it ? Yeah , why don't they video broadcast it ? Yeah , why don't they do it live ? And then we said , oh , that's because they haven't got a live capability .
Well , clearly , acast is demonstrating that they have , but then again , weirdly , the rest is politics . Recently did a show from the LA studios from Spotify . So , daniel , you do have a live studio capability if you want it . So maybe you should mirror what Acast is doing .
There you go , daniel , copy what Acast is doing . You've heard it here first Audio boom . I bumped into Stuart last in the queue for a coffee in Chicago last week .
Did he buy you the coffee ? No , no , he didn't actually . Well , he should have done , given their results .
Yes , very good results for quarter 125 . Ebitda profit up 10 times year on year and the company says it's on pace to deliver record revenue of 80 million US dollars this year . They're doing very well , our audio boom , and it's good to see them doing so well .
Now Podmatch , the podcast network , has hit 150 shows . It's open for another 50 people to join . It's $6 a month as a service . It offers courses , training and events . So yeah , podmatch is run by who ? Again , james ?
It's run by Alex Sanfilippoo , always a very well-dressed man . Whenever I see him at conferences he wasn't at in Chicago , at least I don't remember that it was that it was there , but yeah it's . He's got a good rep , has theatch network , so it's worth taking a peek at .
And finally over to Canada . James , what's going over there ?
So there's a company called Websites for Podcasts , which is a new tool launched by a Canadian company called Podcast Branding , and at first I looked at it and I thought , oh , this looks interesting .
They basically say , if you are paying somebody a perpetual subscription model for your website , then this is a bad thing and , frankly , you should own your website , own it completely , and that makes a ton of sense . So I thought , yeah , no , that makes sense . You know , all of that makes perfect sense .
And then take a look at the pricing $3,400 it'll cost you for a website of your own which is just based on a template . So you don't even get it . You know , uh , for you it's really just a template that's been recolored and re and and and , you know , made for you , uh , from a choice of templates .
I should say $3,400 for the first year , um , and then you have to pay them if you want to continue being hosted by that company . Yes , you can , you can do um . You can do um , uh , self hosting if you like , although that means that you'll have to pay somebody else to do your hosting for you anyway .
So I was kind of looking at that and thinking , well , a , that's a lot of money and B that price doesn't include the ongoing hosting anyway .
Or maintenance .
I bet , yeah , well , yeah , or maintenance , so you've got to continue paying for maintenance and hosting , which sounds to me like a perpetual subscription model .
Anyway , he doesn't seem to be particularly happy with me for pointing that out , but yeah , it just doesn't look like a good deal when you've got somebody like you know , like Podpage , which will give you something which looks pretty good , and , yes , it's a perpetual subscription model , but then so is your podcast hosting anyway , and you're paying .
I think I calculated it as $88 a year , which is a bit cheaper than $3,400 . So , yeah , but you know it's a choice , I guess , isn't it Well ?
that , on the back of the fact that WordPress just launched their free AI-powered website builder , that would not be a problem then , would it ?
Gosh . Yes , well , that's definitely a thing .
Yes , yeah , anyway good luck to them , whatever they manage to achieve Now . Moving on Not a lot , not a lot Now . Moving on people in jobs .
People in jobs , who's moving and grooving who's moving and grooving James . Well , yes , plenty of people moving , but not necessarily grooving , From Daily Wire . There's been a round of layoffs there . To quote better align resources with business priorities and growth areas . There's seemingly quite a lot of drama going on in that company .
Now , of course , this is being read through the lens of there being quite a lot of people who wish that company bad because of their political views . People who wish that company bad because of their political views , and so there's lots of very hyperbolic blog posts out there .
But it turns out that one of the co-founders has left , somebody who rejoices in the name Jeremy Boring I'm sure that's not how you pronounce it , but anyway and the VP of Public Relations , alyssa Cordova . They've both left the company , but also it sounds as if a quarter of the company's employees have Cordova .
They've both left the company , but also it sounds as if a quarter of the company's employees have left , although , depending on who you read , it might just be the kids division has closed , in which case , well , that's fine , that's just a change of priority there .
But in any case , trouble at Mill , potentially at Daily Wire , also Trouble at Mill with Automatic . Now , we care about Automatic because it owns Pocket Cast . It does , of course , also own WordPress , and 159 employees left that company in October after the founder did something really weird .
They're now laying off another 280 workers in a restructure , which I think makes it something like 30% of you know , maybe 25% of their workers gone in the last six months . So quite a lot of movement going on there . So far as I can work out , pocket Cast seems fine there . So far as I can work out , pocket Cast seems fine .
Ellie was in Chicago , although I didn't see her there . So yeah , but interesting stuff going on at Automatic .
Yeah , and they also own Tumblr . Do you remember ? They bought that as well .
Yes , they did , and they were talking about Tumblr moving on to the Fediverse , but then apparently they've been talking about Tumblr moving on to the Fediverse , but then apparently they've been talking about Tumblr moving on to the Fediverse every sort of three months for the last five years .
So I'm not quite sure whether or not that's ever going to happen , but yeah , who knows ?
Anyone else got a new job , James ?
There are a few people who've got a new job . Casey Spivey has been named VP of Podcast Operations for Pioneer , and Carrie Brodie , interestingly so , she moved from Pushkin Industries where she was VP of Business Development . She's now VP of Business Development at Higher Ground , working with the Obamas , which is quite a move .
So congratulations to Carrie Brody for doing that .
I listened to the first , michelle Obama . New one Won't be listening to the second .
Well , I mean , I have to say my goodness the feedback about that new show , because of course , again , just like with the Daily Wire , people really want to , um , do whatever megan markle does down , um , and so of course everybody's piled in and said how dreadful this is oh , that's megan mark and not michelle obama , but they are both oh sorry , yes , sorry ,
yeah , yes , yes , you're absolutely , absolutely , uh fair . Yes , uh , we I mean both people are being slagged off left , right and centre again because of some of their views .
I don't , actually I don't believe that . Look , yes , there will be those people on the right who just don't care whatever is said , or those people in the royalist side who won't give Meghan Markle a break , and that's fine . But I actually think the content of both because I wanted them to be successful it's just dull .
It really is dull , and I'm not saying that I'm a massive fan of the Obamas , but I couldn't listen to that longer than I had to Well .
well , there we are . And on that bombshell let's move on . No one cares what I think than I had to . Well , well , there we are . And on that bombshell , let's move on . Let's move on to awards and events and the Independent Podcast Awards . I was there last year . They are open for entry again this year .
Excitingly , they've also announced a new event , the Independent Podcast Forum , which is a one dayday event for indie creators . The awards attracted more than 400 entries last year . I'm curious as to why they've also jumped in with the Independent Podcast Forum . So you decided you'd find out as well . So you had a quick chat with Emma Turner .
You asked her what the Independent Podcast Awards were .
They are , as the name says , awards for independent podcasters . They're in their third year now and we launched them back in 2023 . It was kind of off the back of a conversation that Em from Verbal Diorama heard with Simon Brie from Film Stories about how there's quite a lot of podcast awards out there , but often the smaller shows get overlooked .
Of podcast awards out there , but often the smaller shows get overlooked , and so one thing led to another , and then we launched the awards to try and do something about that .
So here we are , three years later yeah , james and I went to the last awards . They were really well done . Congratulations to everyone involved thank you there's some amazing winners out of that . Now you've also just announced the independent Podcast Forum . What's that ?
It's going to be a small one-day event for indie creators to come together and learn from experts from the industry , but also to learn from each other as well . This sort of came off the back of feedback from attendees from the awards and how much they loved just being in a room with people like them .
As many solo podcasters know , it can be a really lonely sport at times . So being with people that go through the same things because you know it's one thing talking to your partner , but if they're not a podcaster themselves , they still don't really understand what it's like .
Know that feeling well . Know that feeling well .
So this is a chance for people to come together , talk about what they do , find out how they could potentially do things better and , yeah , hear from some excellent speakers too .
So what is the date for this independent forum ?
It's taking place on Monday , the 16th of June , at 21 Soho in central London , and it's running from about 9.30 till 5 , and there'll be some drinks afterwards as well , so even more time to chat .
And if I wanted to register or I wanted to come along , what would I do ?
You would go to our website independentpodcastawardscom , and there's information about both the forum and entering the awards , so everything's all in one place , making it nice and easy .
And , as you said , entering the awards , what's the entry date and what's the actual date of the awards then ?
The deadline for entries is the 2nd of June , which is a Monday , so it gives you that last weekend to get everything together , and the awards themselves are going to take place on the 15th of October , back at King's Place in London .
Nice Judges . Who's judging it this year ? How do judges get involved ? What do they need to do ?
Well , it's an open call for judges . If people would like to get involved , then please do get in touch with me . My email address is all over the website and , yeah , we've had a mix of people that have been podcasting for years , people that just started doing it .
A nice array of judges , but we want lots of people from different backgrounds , different voices , looking for different things as well . So please do get in touch and get involved .
Now , is it as expensive as entering the British Podcast Awards ? Do I have to pay a gazillion quid ? Find sponsors and give you a gold bar of bullion . What do I need to do ? And give you a gold bar of bullion . What do I need to do ?
No , we try to keep our costs as minimal as possible . Obviously , life is expensive right now and lots of these people are doing it themselves . They don't have a company to pay for them .
So the cost to enter is £35 for the first entry and then if you want to enter a couple of other categories , they're £5 each after that , and we've got a few free enter categories as well , which are best podcast artwork , best jingle and a new one for this year best use of video , because lots of people are starting to dip their toe in the water in terms
of video podcasting , so we just want to see what people are up to and reward those that are doing it well I was gonna ask you about video and new categories , but you beat me to it , do you ?
you or will you ? Now here's a controversial one Will you use a category for AI ? Some people say having an AI voice is not very creative , or maybe having AI artwork is not very creative , and other people sit on the other side of the fence say that's very creative . So where do you sit ?
That's a really tricky question . I think that if you can demonstrate why you're using it and how you're using it and doing it , but still being creative , then I think it's okay . But it's so open to interpretation , isn't it ?
Lots of people have very Marmite views on it , so I think it's demonstrating to the judges how you're using it and why , and then it's kind of down to them to decide , and it takes it out of my hands yes , I was watching that shoulder slope nicely someone else's decision , not mine but having that we're actually going to be using AI ourselves because with each
entry the entrants get feedback from the judges , but that will be using an AI tool to pull together reports on each entry to send out . So I'm definitely not anti-AI .
Excellent , emma . Thank you so much . Look again . Quick reminder what's the website ? Where do I go ?
Independentpodcastawardscom and everything about the forum and the awards will be there for you .
Lovely Speak to you soon .
Brilliant , thank you .
The very excellent Emma Turner from the Independent Podcast Awards . Will you be at the Independent Podcast Forum , Sam ? Is that something that might float your boat ?
I'm going to be there to report for Pod News , but also they've asked me oh , you know , don't get paid for it , I just help out .
You do get paid for it , thanks to the municipants of Busborough . That's true . Yes , that's true . And our exciting 18 .
Yes , yes , okay , but no , emma's asked me to do a podcast about the event , so I'll be interviewing people at the podcast forum for a live event on the day .
Very good . There is also the Publisher Podcast Awards . Their shortlist has been revealed and there's over 120 people in that shortlist .
If there's one way that I can annoy people , it's if they spend a long amount of time writing a beautiful press release how they've been nominated for the Publisher Podcast Awards or for the Webis or for something else , and then I very politely as politely as I possibly can reply back and I say we don't carry any stories about nominations , because if I carried
nominations about , you know , being on the shortlist for the Publisher Podcast Awards , for example , I would be publishing 120 different press releases and I'm not doing that . So no , we don't do that . But anyway , congratulations to you if you are one of those 120 . Do that , but anyway , congratulations to you if you're one of those 120 .
There is nearly 50 judges around the world who are judging that and the winners will be revealed in an in-person event at Salsa Temple . Salsa Temple amazing food in London on the 11th of June . I've never heard of Salsa Temple , have you heard of that ? No , well , there we are there we are .
Who knows , I'll be going have a look if the food's good . Also , media Voices , who are bringing this award , are bringing back the Publisher Podcast Summit , which will run in parallel alongside the inaugural Publisher App Summit on Wednesday , the 11th of June . I guess you can find all the details on their website .
Indeed and also congratulations to you if you are nominated for the ARIAS , the Audio and Radio Industry Awards in the UK . That's taking place on May , the 14th . The Tech Stuff on the Pod News Weekly Review . Yes , it's the stuff you'll find every Monday in the Pod News newsletter . Here's where Sam talks technology .
Well , first of all , I'd like to say happy birthday , seven years old , to Headliner , congratulations to Neil Modi and the team over there , and today , at 12 o'clock Eastern time , they're hosting an online party , so if you want to join , go to the Headliner website .
I don't think there's any drinks they'll be giving you , though , but other than that , you can go and celebrate with them . They're seven years .
Indeed , if you've listened just in time , this podcast has been edited on an aeroplane , because of course it has , then you should just about get that , can you ?
tell the pilot to actually fly the plane and not edit this podcast please .
Yes , that would be a good thing . So what's going on on YouTube ?
Because there's some interesting things going on in YouTube . Yeah , so YouTube . John McDermott , friend of the show , posted that YouTube had just announced automatic dubbing , which , again , I thought they had before , but it seems it's new . They've announced it before to rob greenlee .
So the idea is that you can then have a voice in multiple different languages put onto your video automatically . Now this again seems logical , but I was listening to colin and samir .
They had mark zuckerberg on recently and they also had mr beast on one of the things , mr , that 15% of the world only spoke English and that he is reliant on language translations and audio dubbing to reach a wider audience .
He said without it he wouldn't be as successful , and he actually told Mark Zuckerberg on the show look , you don't have this in any of your meta platforms and I can't therefore use your platforms . I mark zuckerberg took that on very seriously and he's now going to do something about it .
But it is interesting that when you start to look at podcasting today , we we tend to put we do it , james , this show , we just put it out in english . Now , I think , with the alternative enclosure tag within podcasting 2.0 , there is an opportunity to put multiple different language versions . You've experimented in the past , james .
What did you do with Pod News Daily ?
Yeah , so I took Pod News Daily , I put it into wondercraftai and did a translation in there with my voice . So I was there speaking Spanish and Japanese and all kinds of stuff . I mean , theoretically we could put this show in there .
It's considerably longer , it'll cost considerably more , but theoretically we could do that and clone your voice and my voice , and you know , we could be in Japanese as well if you wanted to . So yeah , all of that kind of stuff is certainly possible .
I suppose the thinking there is well what happens now in terms of people finding those particular alternate language versions .
I guess , well , if you go onto YouTube , obviously you get your YouTube local language version delivered to you in the country you're in . So that's why MrBeast likes it .
He's already said that those versions where they haven't put a local language version , the number of people it gets watched by is very low comparatively to when they are dubbed in the local language . Now that's dubbing , so it's not Mr local language . Now that's dubbing , so it's not MrBeast's voice that's being used .
So YouTube aren't offering you the same thing as WonderCraft , which is to take your voice and make it into Japanese or whatever . So I think that's slightly different and I think WonderCraft got a good tool .
The problem , I guess , is it's the cost , and for us on this show , which is a long show , then that would be quite expensive and as we don't really do advertising on this show to monetize , then we wouldn't really see any value back in it .
No , I'm not sure that we'd see that , and I'm also , you know , slightly concerned about , you know , the cultural thing of you know , well , we do this in English and we don't care enough about , you know , doing a French version .
It's kind of um , to me it's a bit um , as the British , as the British person , it's a bit sort of , you know , we've , we've conquered you guys , you'll , you'll , you'll just , you'll just have to deal with a , you know , with a poor quality version dubbed into your , into your own language .
So I'm I'm always sort of slightly nervous about that uh , that sort of thing .
I don't know . I think it's either a poorly dubbed version or nothing . If you can't understand English , for example , Well , yes , I suppose there is always that , isn't there ? I mean , we saw Persephonica do this with Dua Lipa , if you remember , ages back . They didn't do it in the Dua Lipa being Dua Lipa French or Dua Lipa German .
They did it in the what you called the United Nations way of doing it . So she would talk in English and then someone would talk over it to talk about what ?
yeah , somebody would dub over it yeah , yeah , I doubt they would do that now , but I guess the other side of it we've talked as well about AI being used as a voice and we go oh , I'm not sure we like it or dislike it , we haven't really made the decision , but I I've seen , for example , somebody in india whose english may be written very well but who
can't speak it very well because of their accent , who then use an ai voice or , in this case , a WonderCraft voice , to put it into an English accent . And again , the content may be great , but we grate against the sound if it's not the way we want to hear it .
Yeah , yeah , no , indeed , you know there's a lot of sort of interesting things there . I guess the other question and certainly , you know , when you have a look at somebody like Wondery , which took Dr Death , its first big hit , translated that into lots of different languages .
You know they did a very good job , but they even went as far as to translate the title , translate the show descriptions , you know , do all of that and at the moment in RSS we don't have a way of doing that . So every RSS feed at the moment is , is , is unilanguage , you know it's .
It'll deal with one language in there and you and you say what that language is going to be at the top of the RSS feed and that's it . Now you could theoretically put different languages into your alternate enclosure so you could find , you know , the French version of a podcast using your alternate enclosure .
That sounds a nice idea , you know , initially , until you realise , well , yeah , but you've still got to translate the show notes , you've got to translate probably the title and all of that . So I'm not sure necessarily that that works as a , you know , as a , as a tool .
I think probably one RSS feed per language is fine because it does , because it does allow you to be linked to from other stuff in that particular language . So I think that that's probably fine , but I don't know . It's an interesting thing that not very many people have looked into quite yet .
No , but I think it's coming . I mean , if you look at Descript , they've just launched their translate and dub video option , so you can use an AI voice now to narrate your video . It isn't weirdly ? Although Descript allows me to store my voice in Descript to make editorial changes , they don't offer me my voice in the dubbed video into foreign language .
Right , yes yes don't offer me my voice in the dubbed video into foreign language , right , yes , yes , no , I think . I think , yeah , it's , it's , it's . It is interesting , isn't it ? You know , there's the dubbing , there's , you know , subtitles and stuff , which , of course , youtube has been doing for a long , long time anyway , and all of that .
So , yeah , it's fascinating , you know fascinating , thinking what might happen there . So , yeah , it's fascinating , you know fascinating thinking what might happen there .
Moving on , I found a new app that's just been launched , a podcast app called Sofa App . Now , I heard this on a podcast about technology and I thought I'd have a look at it and fundamentally , the idea of the Sofa app I think it's . Basically , they say most apps we use today are designed for work .
Sofa is one of the few productivity apps intentionally designed for play , and originally it was just a note taking function . You know , what shall I watch tonight ? What shall I eat ? What shall I read ? What shall I play ? And now they've added podcasting into what should I listen to ? But it actually has audio playback as well within the app .
Now , right , Well , it looks interesting . Certainly it's got a very , very pretty website at sofaHQcom . That's sofa as in . You know what JD Vance likes , so yeah , it's certainly worth a peek at . You know , I'm just having a quick flick through . It calls itself your New Favourite Podcast Player .
Enjoy the convenience , simplicity and fun of listening to podcasts in SOFA . Yeah , what the playback engine is like don't know , but it does seemingly support chapters , so that's always nice . Anyway worth a look , anyway , worth a peek .
yeah , exactly also works also works on those , on those um silly , um uh glasses that uh apple have they don't have it , they're gonna .
That's going away , like everything else they do .
Yeah , I mean it's a bit like their cars a bit like their search , a bit like their AI .
Yeah , no , it won't last . No , no , they're not . No , no , they're not Google . Well , I did have an expression Apple miss it , google kill it . Oh , okay , yes , everything . Sorry , apple miss every new technology and Google kill every new technology . Anyway , moving on , final thing , you are having a little discussion about the location tag .
I thought we'd all done and dusted the location tag , James .
No , not really . I'm keen that . So there are conversations going on at the moment about the location tag and supporting the location tag in the podcast standards project . Now that's not a bad thing really to support that .
I don't necessarily see that people are supporting the nice bit of that specification which is the open street map stuff , and I'm a little bit nervous to see that they are supporting the current specification , not the new version of the specification which is currently you know any day now going to be made into the you know , the current specification , if you see
what I mean . So , yeah , so I mean , to me , the exciting thing about the location tag is the integration with something like OpenStreetMap , which would then allow you to do things like find me every podcast about a railway station , find me every podcast about a brewery , find me every podcast about a brewery in Paris .
You could do all kinds of really interesting location tags from that because of the additional metadata that exists in the OpenStreetMap API .
And I think what I'm nervous about is that people say that they are supporting the specification , but just supporting the bare minimum , which is just a lat-lon , and a lat-lon tells you nothing about what you're highlighting other than just it's a spot on the earth .
So I'm kind of hoping I'm not in the podcast standards projects and there are good reasons why I shouldn't be but I'm kind of hoping that they do that job properly and support the location tag properly , not just the bare minimum because it will just be a bit rubbish . If they do that , let's see if they do .
It is indeed , and I have some things in front of me in terms of the feedback that we've got . Through boosts , you can send us a boost or a super chat from your favourite podcast app . If you're not using a brand new podcast app , then you really ought to be . Lyceum 1,701 sats . James , I'm pulling your leg now , he says .
I talked to Sam today about the location tag , blogging and other stuff . I hoped you had a nice trip from Brisbane , australia , to Chicago , united States of America . Did you travel with ? The Starship Recording location is now All the best , martin and 1701 is a Star Trek boost . Oh is it ? Oh , well , there you go .
And he then follows that up with another one saying and he's using True Fans for this , I will pull your leg a bit . Oh again , how are things in the Windy City , chicago ? What kind of pizza do you fancy ? Do you approve of pieces of pineapple on your pizza ? Well , of course , a classic pizza in Sweden is with slices of doner kebab meat .
No , what Did you have ? A Sam Adams beer ? Well , I did . I had one because it was the best of a bad bunch , but I then had some local beer , which was nice . Recording location says Brisbane , queensland , australia . Yes , all right , I know that you are not lost in space if you travel with the Starship loaded with 1,701 Satoshis . All the best , martin .
Anyway , there we are . Thank you , martin , for that . 2,222 sats from Silas on Linux Pod . News is the reason why I'm poor . He says Silas , thank you for being poor . I appreciate it . Neil Velio . 298 sats from True Fans . He says I love the overdubs .
Evolutions in the intro last week , yes , I realised that I had a version that said live from Podcast Movement , but not a version that said live from Podcast Movement Evolutions , and I thought it wasn't fair to desperately ask Evo to get Sheila to do a new version of that . So yes , so there's a thing .
Might not need one for next year .
No , well , no , exactly , well , well , I mean , who knows ? I see what you were saying there . Let's move on . 2222 sats from Bruce . Thanks for taking us along again . This is to the Pod News . This is the Pod News Weekly Review last week , which , which , of course , was recorded live at podcast movement evolutions .
Love to hear you can do a podcast without your comfortable studio . Good show 73 . Uh , thank you , bruce . Uh , that's very kind of you . Also , matt cundall . 5150 sats . Um , from fountain . Wonderful episode from podcast movement evolutions . Perfect cure for fomo , hmm .
Yes , I had FOMO . So yes , I'm sure several other people did as well .
It was good fun , although , to be honest , it was very easy wandering around and chatting to people because there weren't very many people there Last day and everything you know . I think all of the interest in the booths had been and gone . Can't wait to hear what Todd says about it when that show is back . But yes , so there we are .
So thank you all for your sats , much appreciated . Sam and I share those sats with us and that's very gratefully received . Sam , I think you also got in your bank account this week some nice money from our excellent 18 . Yes thank you .
Who are Star Tempest , Brian Ensminger , the late bloomer actor , James Burt , John McDermott , Claire Waite-Brown , Mazzalene Smith , Neil Velio , Rocky Thomas , Jim James , David Marzell , Cy Jobling , Rachel Corbett , Dave Jackson , Mike Hamilton , Much appreciated . If you would like to be the 19th , then you are more than welcome .
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If Australia starts charging a 50% tariff on America , it's not going to be a 50% tariff on money that we might make from Buzzsprout , I'm assuming .
No , no , it used to be . Tariff is a really easy word to understand import duty . Do you remember those words ?
Yes , yes , oh , and I suppose we're not importing anything other than money , so no , exactly .
I also caught up with Jim James this week , one of our power supporters . He's wonderfully produced using lovable AI , which is one of those vibe coding platforms where you can just ask it to produce an app .
But he produced something really cool , which is he puts the audio transcription into his tool and it then gives you balance of speakers , tone , what they talked about , all sorts of things . It's an analysis of speakers .
It's very cool , oh , okay , well , that's nice , excellent , well , there's a thing . Uh , what's happened for you this week , sam ?
uh , yeah , have you been busy on true fans yeah , well , you know , um , I think we'll probably save a little bit of this , what we are doing , hopefully for a conversation with john spurlock , but we've been working on some technology called activity streams , which is not activity pub , it's the ability to create a json file to export .
So , look , we do import and export . Quite well , now , we we import and and export cough hint , uh , opml , um , we ? Um wonder who I'm aiming that one at ? Um , we also do the xml export of uh pod roles and publisher feed and import them as well . And we now do import and export of activity streams .
So , yes , you can get a JSON file of all your activity , download it , do what you want with it , share it with who you like , put it onto social media . Yeah , so we've been working on that . The idea is it's about discovery . So , yeah , that's been what we've been working on .
Very good , and you're doing stuff around the verify tag , which is nice now that Apple is fully supporting that , so that's a good thing .
Yeah , I mean email as a mechanism of verification after we all removed email from the RSS feed is very hit and miss , and the idea of the user in the moment wanting to claim a show and then going to have to go and update their RSS feed through their host and then wait for it to populate and then try again doesn't work .
So we need a better mechanism and I guess Apple have shown the way forward , so now we can replicate it .
Indeed , indeed , and you're adding a new TrueFans API . This looks weird . What is this TrueFans API ?
Well , we've been asked by a couple of hosts to do this . They want to use our platform as a means of publishing directly so that they can get an immediate knowledge that the podcast that they have published on behalf of their customer has actually been received by an app .
So they normally publish to the podcast index and they'll continue to do that , but they have no feedback mechanism that tells them that we have pulled it correctly from the podcast index . So they wanted an API into what we do .
Very nice . Yes , I've been sort of battling a little bit with the podcast index . There are a few feeds that are in Apple but have changed their feed since they went into the podcast index . And it's not always , you know , for some quite big launches seem not to show up correctly in the podcast index .
So I'm wondering if there might be a bug there or something . I've reported it today . We'll see what happens . But I have gone into the podcast index because I have the power and changed those RSS feeds over .
So you know I fixed that for everybody that uses the podcast index , but yes , it's a bit of a strange old one really . I'm still confused by how , sometimes moving from one host to the other with three or one redirect works . But hey , we'll try and work it out Now . James , what's happened for you ? Are you at 1 million downloads yet , or 2 million downloads ?
Come on , what's happened ?
Ah no , yes , you are talking about the story that we had on Monday , which is all about the wonderful Google Audio News .
I've been mentioning this a little bit in this podcast and , yes , all of a sudden , on the 28th of February , 28th of February , google started giving us 30,000 downloads a day to the Pod News Daily , which was nice of them , but I don't really want that . Thanks , thanks very much . Anyway , what we're now seeing is that that has now gone up to about 40,000 .
Google and I , you know , eventually turned around and started publishing a story about this , because I had a contact with another podcast host who was also seeing something similar . That has flushed out a third podcast host which again is seeing the same thing .
Google basically pulling lots of these shows and seemingly I don't think everybody's agreed that they're not getting played , but I think that that's pretty self-evident from our stats . Anyway , google told me yesterday that they'd fixed it , but they haven't , so I'm not quite sure what's going on there as well .
But yes , I think my hosting cost me an extra $200 last month and so I could kind of I'd quite like Google to stop , but we will see what they do there . Anyway , more information in that on in Monday's pod news , I think this week , where you can dive in and find out a little bit more information about that .
You've got here LTG . What's ?
LTG a lot with airlines . Then eventually they give you a pat on the back and they say well done , james . You've flown an awful lot with us . You are now lifetime gold . So , as I flew back from Chicago , I'm now lifetime gold , which is very exciting which means that I have access to the lounges forever now , hooray , so that's nice .
Patch of honour . Well done you .
Patch of honour . And the scary thing is I hit that in just eight years . It's all I've been flying this particular airline with .
So just eight years and I'm now lifetime gold with them , which is interesting because it does actually mean that you are going to potentially become less customer loyal , because it means that I can always get into the lounge with that airline . So therefore I can try the other airline now , you know . So it's a strange one .
But why would you want to start at the bottom and work your way up again ?
Well , because they've got status match so you can actually start . You can go hello , I'm gold with this airline , Can I be gold with you ? And they'll say , oh , yes , please . So you start with gold , you start with gold there and yeah , and so you can play the game . Play the game with them as well .
I don't think I'm going to , but nevertheless , because they're not a very good airline , but nevertheless , yes . So that , I think , tells me that I've been doing far too much travel .
I have been given the opportunity to go somewhere in June which I'm sort of umming and ahhing about , and I have been asked to go and speak somewhere very nice on World Podcast Day on the 30th of September . Except my September is mostly travelling around different parts of the world anyway .
So I'm there thinking , gosh , do I really want more travel at the end of September ? So we'll see quite how far we get Depends , how much I can charge , I suppose .
You're on a plane to London , aren't you ? So you'll be coming to London shortly .
I will . I'm on a plane to the podcast show in London . I noticed that I've got a call at some point next week in the middle of the night with the rest of the advisory board to find out how that's going . But that should be good fun . I'm looking forward to that .
And also going to Toronto , which is my next flight in a couple of weeks' time , going to a big radio conference up there . So that should be fun as well . Looking forward to a little bit of that too . Excellent , yes , and that's it for this week . All of our podcast stories taken from the PodNews daily newsletter at podnewsnet .
I'm very aware that I'm sounding very sort of relaxed and quiet , and that's because it's half past nine at night where I am . We're recording this slightly later and I happen to know that my very sleepy parents are trying to go to sleep in the room directly below this office , so that's why I'm being slightly quieter than I normally would be .
But anyway , there we go . Let's wrap it up for you . You can support this show by streaming stats . You can give us feedback by using Buzzsprout fan mail . The link is in our show notes . You can send us a super comment or become a power supporter by the excellent 18 at weeklypodnewsnet .
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