Welcome to Podland. The last word in podcasting news. It's Friday, the 20th of May, 2022. I am James Cridland, the editor of podnews.net and Sam Sethi,
the MD of River Radio, the podcast radio station. Now on DAB.
I'm Ashley Carmen, a reporter at Bloomberg. I am a guest on this podcast this
week. It's going to be very exciting all the way through, Portland sponsored by squad cars, the remote recording studio that your audience will love. Squad cars creates high CASI, audio and video content, just using a browser and using Dolby enhanced audio mastering they'll sound better than ever. And as a disclosure, thanks called cars, but we're not using you this week. We're using we using a stream in case anything goes wrong. Don't go blaming squad guys.
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Podland is the James now review the latest news and the podcast industry. And this week we're joined by Ashley coming. Hello? Ashley, where in the world are you?
I am in Brooklyn, New York right now. Yeah,
I'm slightly, slightly cold. Look there we are. I'm slightly concerned. Let me just do a quick retweet, there, that will be a good idea. Wouldn't it? so yes, it's all. It's all a thrill. I haven't done anything live for a long time. So if I don't look at the camera. I have bought ball book and all that is that racist? I don't know. I guess I've been at radio days, Europe, in, Malmo in Sweden. and, yeah, always a future in scripted podcasts, which I thought was, interesting.
and, yeah, quite a difficult gig given that he was essentially in front of a load of, people from the radio industry and obviously, you know, the Spotify and the radio industry, possibly not the best of bedfellows. so it was interesting seeing, seeing that
as, you know, Ashley, you might not know, but I also own a radio station and I call it a podcast first radio station, because all our shows are one hour long. We podcast them automatically. And I think that the marriage between podcasting and radio is going to become a very similar, I think what's the difference between a one hour show that, you know, the only thing that's different is when you've got a live football or a live sport. Otherwise, I don't think there's a lot of differences though.
you know, yeah. you know, a live radio is useful and important for some things, that you shouldn't probably underestimate the, the excitement of, you know, hearing something at the same time as everybody else. but yeah, actually, I don't know how much, do you listen to live radio? You've got some of the best live radio in New York city. Now
that I commute to the office, three times a week, I listened to WIC in the morning when I get ready, which genuinely I just find to be the best way to get the news. It's one. I can just listen to my AirPods when I'm getting ready, but two, I get a sampling of everything it's local, as well as they bring in some of the news from NPR. So it has the entire country and the world later on, this is a little later for me, but they do the BBC. So yeah, I do listen to the radio.
I really enjoyed as a morning routine, but I do think having the podcast version would be helpful if I missed that. And in the evening I'm like, what did I miss this morning? I could go back and listen. So I do think, didn't Spotify by Wishkah and isn't their whole business around making radio, like on demand and helping serve ads. So it's
exactly what I use. So basically I use with my radio station, so that's how I secretly used it. yeah, so we take the live feed from this radio station that, and literally within five minutes of the radio station program, finishing it's available as a spot, as a podcast.
It's like, why not? Exactly.
Now you met some people out there as well. You will send Matt, Tom Webster, formally of Edison research. Now with
she's still with Edison research until the end of this month. Yeah. He was talking about, habits being the number one growth opportunity for podcasting, you know, very much pointing out. You know, that, that is it's something I've been saying for a while as well. The reason why radio is so successful, the reason why nine out of 10 people still do. To, to the radio and the, you know, the UK figures have just come out and even more young people are listening to the radio, which I find amazing.
but the reason because of that is because it's habit. and that's what people, you know, are, you know, people have woken up to the radio for years and, that's what, we'll continue, driving that. And Tom was very much arguing that habit will be the thing that makes, podcasting continue to end up growing. so he was great at what was fascinating is he was talking next to, Denmark radios, Rasmus, Kidder, and Rasmus was basically saying exactly the same thing.
And they hadn't even, you know, checked, you know, any of that, any of that stuff. So that was good. The other person, who I thought was really interesting, we had a session, there was a podcast summit at the, radio days, Europe, and we had a session about monetization. Rob Greenlee was, speaking from the Libsyn's advertised cast and very much talking about, you know, how monetization works and everything else.
And then we had Daniella Murphy from a cast and she looks after podcast creative in the UK and Ireland. And, she was just talking really passionately about how good radio, sorry, how good, you know, advertising can be how good podcast advertising can be from. and just some really nice ideas around creative that were, you know, more things than just, you know, non-stop. You know, non-stop, you know, radio spots and stuff like that.
So it was great actually seeing something from a cast, which was, you know, really talking about the interesting creative things that you can do in terms of advertising. and people only mentioned how intimate podcasting was about seven times. So that was good. So, we didn't do too much
there. Okay. Ashley, how come you weren't out of radio days, Europe as well.
I want to come see Europe. I'm ready next year. I am actually going to Europe in a few weeks, but not for fun podcasts conferences.
We're okay. There we ask, where are you going?
I'm going to Spain for a wedding. And the in patrol, if anyone has recommendations, please send them my way.
If you're there, I'll let you know a few places.
Yes. Keep him keep your mobile phone, you know, safe safely on your assault.
Oh, I might get a burner
phone for, but, yeah, but it's a lovely place. And, the home of rss.com, who one half is based there and also the home of, evokes, who are a good bunch of people, but you're not going there for work. So it will be the last,
yeah. But next year, Ashley, we'll get you over because we're just Calphalon is going to be doing she podcasts over. Oh
fun. Yes. I really do want to come over. I keep
announcing.
Yeah, you keep up. You keep on announcing. This is, this news
is to Jess.
Just to me, that would be
reporting this. You should ask. I sent her a list of speakers the other day. Oh, excellent. I've got a venue for it. There you go. Yeah. The William Wallace gallery. Beautiful old
gallery, gallery named after a man. Good work, Sam. Okay.
Good point James up. We'll have to chase out venue
anyway, moving
on. Yes, indeed. So, Brian Barletta, friend of the show, he was also, over there at radio days. what was Brian talking about?
Yeah, he was, he did a couple of sessions. I think what was exciting about radio days or it was the, there was this specific session all around podcasting and the podcast summit, which I'm moderated on the Sunday. And then there were lots of different things around podcasting during the main event as well. And it's been the case I've been going to radio days, Europe for the last 13 years. It's been the case that podcasting has always been Thing.
and isn't the main focus, but actually much more podcasting, in the main session, including a session with Brian and Rob Greenlee was there, Judy Shapiro was over from, PRX and Radiotopia. so, you know, really good to hear that as well. And if you'd like to hear a full interview with Julie Shapiro, and that is, on Matt Deegan's podcast, it's called the media podcast. and, I'm on it as well.
trying to, you know, take part in a quiz, but you can fast forward through that, but, but Julie's bit is really good. So it's, worth worth having a, listen,
not a show spoiler, but can I just say James.
you clearly haven't listened yet game. That's all I can say.
okay, that's also put a, in his newsletter this week, more confidence about platforms talking about how radio stations are now not driving traffic, which is interesting to other platforms like apple and Spotify, but are trying to keep all the traffic on their own platforms.
Now, there was a brand new story this week, all about apple podcasts made a few tweaks and tucks to their, mobile app, but also, or their iOS app, obviously still waiting for that Android app. They're not stupid. they'll launch that soon. but they also launched a apple podcast to delegated delivered. Okay. which is quite an, name, isn't it. Ashley, what, what was apple podcasts, delegated, delegated delivery. Did you, did you figure out a simple way of explaining it?
the simplest way is that apple podcast subscriptions, which is very proprietary, you have to use their backend to upload your subscription content. If you want the button on the app, obviously you can do private RSS feeds. Now you can do it through some of the hosting providers that they're working with. So you don't have to necessarily log into the backend upload that content. it's through an API, which I think some people found pretty interesting, cause it's relatively new for apple podcast.
so yeah, I mean it's Def I think it's pretty cool. It's interesting in comparison to Spotify guys, I think they call it open access for their subscription work, where they're working with. More like subscription oriented platforms, like a super cast or something versus the actual hosting platforms. so pretty interesting comparisons there.
Yeah. I thought it was interesting. you know, I think, Spotify is open access would work. For example, if you pay money to Bloomberg and Bloomberg, we'd like to make some, you know, super paid for podcasts, then you could log in through your Spotify account and somehow get that in there.
whereas, you know, and I think a cast has worked on the same sort of thing as well, but really interesting to see apple, as you say, working on an API, opening that, one would guess that perhaps they'll also be, you know, just adding a really simple publish your podcast on apple podcasts button. At some point, I know that, Buzzsprout was telling us, a while back that, only something like 69% of their show. Are available on apple podcasts.
So, you know, a third of people on, Buzzsprout just find getting their show into apple podcasts, too difficult, too complicated. You need credit cards, you need access to a laptop of some sort. so therefore actually, you know, if this also helps, make life a little bit easier to get into apple podcasts. And that's probably a good thing too. Yeah. I
noticed, sorry, Ashley, go on.
I was just gonna say, it seems like there may be taking a bit of a cue from the six success of anchor. Spotify at least has seen quite an influx of podcasts according to them. So if nothing else, it seems like they're at least taking a little bit of a cue. They're aiming for that creator audience.
I noticed somebody called Ashley, see on Twitter noted a little point, that, you know, you want to add on this, but it was, you noted that megaphone at anchor, weren't participating in this launch for some strange.
Yeah. I just thought that was, you know, pretty striking, considering I think many of the big networks use megaphone, an apple podcast subscriptions launched with some of the biggest networks. So, yeah, I just thought it was an interesting contrast. I'm curious if they will work together. I don't know if they're frenemies, enemies, friends. I have no idea.
Yeah. Eight car seems to be the only one who's in. Got a foot in both camps.
They've got a foot in both camps, but they've not actually, they've said that they will launch with Spotify open access at some point in the future, but they haven't launched with that yet. my understanding is that all of these services are, you know, they're great. But, in terms of Spotify, there's an issue around caching audio. It comes back to the way that Spotify has always worked.
And so therefore that may not be of interest to somebody like, potentially ma you know, a cast, because of the way that a cast monetizes, but, yeah, you know, interesting. And we don't necessarily know whether or not apple works in the same way as well, because if delegated delivery, I think the clue is in the word delivery, that's delivering audio to. For them to then make available in there in their platform.
It doesn't sound as if that's going to be still served by the host sounds as if it's going to be cashed by apple, as it currently works. So, you know, again, is there a question around how that works with a company? Like, like a cast, but, yeah, interesting to end up seeing them
maybe the way that YouTube integrates as well with hosts, because clearly they'll want to cash it locally and want to host it themselves.
Yeah. you know, YouTube is fascinating because of course it's producing lots of different versions of the video. as indeed Spotify is when you do a video podcast, it's producing lots of different versions of the video. So again, you know, is YouTube going to have, I'm going to have past pass through or not for specific podcast hosts, you know? who knows?
I certainly have you heard any, anything, obviously YouTube is sponsoring something, at the podcast show next week I will be standing on a YouTube stage show showing a slide from YouTube that I shouldn't have. so we'll see. We'll see if that, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see if that ends up flying, do you know whether or not they might be announcing anything next week?
Watch those James. They are very carefully.
I haven't gotten anything. I'm very curious. I think we've all been waiting now for months. Kai's been in the position for a bit now. Not, I don't think it's been a full year or anything, but still it's been a minute. I'm excited to hear if they announce anything I'm waiting for it to, but now I know.
Yeah, it'll be interesting to find out I'm, you know, some people have been saying, oh yeah, they're going to, they're going to be announcing something and I'm there and I'm there in reality. Why would they be announcing something in a small country off the coast of Europe? what, why would that be a thing if you're a big American company? So I, I don't think that's going to be, where they announced it, if they are announcing something, but, you know, I could well be proved wrong
again, disappointment to dot. Oh, we're looking forward to it now. talking about companies, announcing stuff. Apple came out this week with iOS 15.5 iPad, 15.5, a Mac iOS 12.4. Sounds like they've been bringing stuff out before WWDC. Biggest thing was they bringing out, annual paid subscriptions within the apple podcast app, but also one thing that you noted, James was apple podcast app has now had a work and tweak for automatic download settings. What are they doing?
Yeah. So now you can basically say, I want to keep every single episode of this show, but I only want to keep the last episode of that show. For example, if you know, nobody wants to keep, 20 or 30. Pardon uses in there, you know, in their app, but they might want to keep the latest one. so, yeah, so I'm surprised that it didn't have, I don't use, you know, iPhone has regular listeners will know, so I was surprised to learn that he didn't actually have that sort of control in there anyway.
I think it's interesting, you know, actually seeing apple podcasts, basically continuing to work on that app, continuing to tweak it, the word there was a time, I think wasn't the aware, the were no new features in the apple podcasts app for a number of years. And now we're seeing, you know, tweaks, every single, you know, it seems like every single version of, iOS.
Yeah. clearly there's a vested interest there. I don't know how high up it goes, but the fact that they see potentially a revenue opportunity with the subscriptions creating delegate delivery. I you have to make sure your app is up to snuff if you're going to want people to be using it all the time. So, I'm glad to see investment there, more hiring and new products and.
we w you know, Sam and I joke, or rather, I joke mostly about, you know, apple aren't stupid. They're going to be launching an Android app. they already have an Android app, of course, for TV. They've got one for apple music. they've got one for, you know, warned me if I'm being tracked by one of those horrible little, tracking things. so they've clearly got, Android apps there. do you think I'm mad assuming that they're not,
I been waiting also for that announcement because I'm like they have to, they just have to, if you're, if you want a subscription to do well, you have to, you want more people to be able to access it. So, yeah, even that Android is the dominant. Oh, less for smartphones. They should probably consider launching one sooner
than later. I have a 200,000 sat bet with Adam Curry as to whether or not they will launch one. I say they will, by the end of the year, Adam says they won't. So we'll find out really the
end of the year. Okay. that's I don't know. I don't know. At the end of this year, I hope they do it in general, but I don't know, for some reason I'm not feeling by the end of this year, but I could literally guessing, so.
Yeah. so Ashley, you know, you spent six years at the verge. you, did all kinds of things with them. you, you wrote a, of course you wrote a hot pot, which I believe is a podcast newsletter, which is very exciting. you have been with Bloomberg for what, three months. Now tell me that. And so, and so, you know, how different have you found that? is it, I always think of Bloomberg as being very serious and very, you know, very business focused.
is it quite diff different working for a company like, like that
it's definitely different because like the output in general where, I, now I'm not doing a regular three times a week newsletter. I had, you know, aria with me when I was doing hotpots and she wrote in addition to every week, but so twice a week newsletter it's, there's a lot of writing. I think people, it doesn't sound like a lot, James it's a lot.
and so yeah, now I'm doing a little bit less writing, really trying to focus on finding some new stories, new things to write about it's free, free me up to really explore different stories. But yeah, it's definitely a different environment. Verges came through blog world, you know, they're all like I was a gadget blogger at the verge for awhile. So just the different world, but it's exciting.
And you're on terminals. I know nothing about Bloomberg or what is this terminal that you keep on talking about?
So that's how Michael Bloomberg made all his money. What is the terminal sales? It basically is like everything you could ever want about finance at your fingertips. I can search kind of anything. It's like almost like the internet contained in itself.
if you could give them one.
Yeah. it's weird. It's like I have like a little terminal, like verification system, right? It's almost gonna be PN or something where I log in and then I verify, and then on my Mac book, I can get it, but. It's like a software program, basically. You wouldn't think of it as anything different. but yeah, like all my email lives in there, all my calendar, we don't use Gmail, you know, we have slack, but it's not a huge slack culture is very different. So yeah.
Moving, learning about terminal commands.
Yeah. So one of the
things I have observed actually, between your previous career and now is that your scooping a lot more, is it, are you getting, given the stories or the, or you, do you have more resources to get stories? What is it? Because clearly you are doing a great job scooping all these new stories. how's that changed for you?
it's always a hustle. It's never easy. but yeah, I I think that Bloomberg really cares about those scoops. We want to be the first, if we can, to most news. And if we're not the first we want to try to. It as thoroughly in as accurately and with as much insight as we can. So I would say, you know, I'm constantly trying to get more stories. Never feel like I'm doing enough, but, yeah, the scoops definitely.
I don't know if it's kinda the same as at the verge, you know, just always trying to find something to write about. but I would say the focus is definitely on that.
will you grow the team around you? Is the plan to grow a team all around the podcast?
I don't think so right now. You all, I think now I know James knows my editor Lucas, so he's been on the podcast beat for a while now. Like he's been writing about for a long time, so it's really me and him. and then they brought me in of course, to help break ups. I'm also going to be covering the music industry as well, and this broader idea of creators, which obviously can be podcasters, video podcasts or. Whoever makes money on the internet. Really? so yeah, we have a team.
I don't think there's plans, you know, necessarily build out the podcast world, but we definitely have a great media coverage team and telecom team.
And given your, like James, the mystic Meg view of the world in podcasting, what are you looking forward to later in this year? Is there anything you think is going to change?
I would say like the big story I'm curious about is obviously for the past few years, we've been covering a lot of the investments happening in podcast, world and audio, world startups, Spotify spending a ton, Amazon spending a ton of. The shooting star that was Facebook for all of a year. and all sorts of different platforms, you know, saying their interest in audio.
But now with this sort of economic downturn that is happening, I'm really interested to see how these companies treat the audio world. And if this was more of a like aspirational, this could be our next thing, you know, let's invest and see how it goes. And now we're going to see that fall by the wayside, just because it's like, money's tight. We gotta watch our investments. That's just what I'm curious to see how it plays out. I don't know if that's what will happen.
I assume Spotify is here to be here, but it really Amazon as well, but I don't know if any other companies are going to necessarily keep doubling down on any audio efforts.
I've got a bet as well. The Hamline James,
what's your bad spot. Spotlit. Oh, yes.
I bought the domain the other day. So in case I now have spot flicks, if you wanted Daniel, you know where to find me now?
Yes. His or rather his lawyers know where to find you. that's
fine. They can pay me for it as well. I don't mind where the money comes from looking at the share price of both of them and the amount of people that are leaving both companies. I think it could be any time soon because, when you look at Amazon, they've got video audio books, they've got the full shooting match. You look at the same with apple. They have the full stack and it's Netflix.
And it's also, it's also, I'd say, you know, Spotify who are struggling basically on both sides and the two together as one actually would be able to compete much better. I think. Yeah,
totally. I hear a lot. I hear a lot of speculation about that as well. there's some Netflix blood on the board of Spotify and I believe their CFO used to be at Netflix as well. Their old CFO, he spanned Netflix as well. and obviously the subscription model has been Netflix influenced. they're both in the intention game. I could see that being interesting. yeah. And
you CA and you can actually see, you know, I find it interesting that you can now turn off the video in Netflix and just consume, some of their content in audio form. And similarly, you can turn off, you, you can turn on the video in Spotify. So the actual products are getting closer and closer as well. I find, I find the whole thing. Fascinating. So it'll be really interesting to see quite what happens.
should we move on to I'm curious about your, your take on who's number one for podcasting, Ashley, cause there's been quite a lot of, of, new numbers that have come out last week. Edison, what should we call the these days? Edison podcast metrics, came out and said that the number one, in terms of publishers was S XM media pod track came out of course, and said that the number one is iHeart media.
So, you then have, media monitors owned by iHeart media who say that the number one is iHeart media, surprisingly, and, Triton. D Tritons figures have just come out, today. talking about, figures for, for, you know, for, us, podcast publishers and they say again, the SSM media is number one. How confusing do you think all of this is iHeart? Number one, it isn't, aren't they? Number one? How confusing is it all for the industry or frankly, should I not be caring about this?
I don't want to say you shouldn't care about things you're passionate about. So,
but, okay.
But it's just, if you don't have every single player and by player, like network or show or on the same platform submitting the same type of data. it's just really hard to draw any conclusions. You've pointed it out. It's like, I, heart's not on Triton and. And PR is not on this one or whatever it is. And it's like, then we can't, it's just, you can't look at you. Can't compare. You just can't. So I don't know.
I don't take too much stock in it to be honest with you, but it is a really nice marketing line to be able to say your number one podcast weekly.
Yeah. It is a really nice marketing line, but if marketing lines aren't true, then that's probably not a great,
are number one, asterix on.
Podtrac and they do that and they do that very well. Yeah. They, you know, they highlight that very well. I find, I do find it interesting that I, heart media isn't measured by Triton who I own. you would have thought you have thought there was something there, but now I just find that sort of line, you know, Really interesting. And I'm just curious as to what the, you know, as to what the, the industry thinks of, of, all of that.
we also got some new numbers this week from the BBC from BBC sounds, they're claiming a record audience of 4 million users per week for their app, here in the UK. and I compared that 4 million is a great thing for a podcast app. I compare that to, their live radio, which reaches 34 million. so there's still quite some way to go, but quite interesting, seeing their total global podcasts downloads across the quarter was 288 million, which makes the BBC about the same size as Wondery.
I suspect that the Wondery has rather fewer staff see something tells me. You know, obviously the BBC makes rather a lot more stuff, but, you know, interesting seeing those figures because of course, you know, the BBC is putting quite a lot of exclusive stuff onto there, you know, onto their app as well. Yeah.
I've been very curious about the BBC as someone who obviously is in the U S and I don't have this intimate familiarity with the BBC, but I've heard, there's similarly to what's happening here with NPR that I've written about a bit. I've heard, there's like a talent exit is going on over there. I don't know if I've just been curious about that as someone who, again, hasn't been able to dive in.
Yeah, I think it's very similar to the talent Exodus that we're seeing from NPR as well. And a lot of it is due to the sort of place that those large organizations are to work out.
But I think also a lot of it is just due to freedom of IP and allowing yourself to be able to, you know, take a show that, you know, and we're seeing a little bit of this into, in terms of Gimlet, you know, and Spotify and those sorts of, those sorts of organizations as well, where people wants to be able to take away their ideas and make something of them.
And clearly, you know, especially if you're working for somebody like the BBC that, you know, I worked there for, two years, best two years of my life. and, I know all of the rules and the regulations that they end up having to follow. So I think from that point of view, it's, you know, it's hard work from there, from their side. And if you could make your life a little bit more easy creatively, then perhaps that's, you know, that's a plan, but yeah.
You know, I think that there's an Exodus going on actually in all large organizations, because we are now seeing how easy it is for you to be a small company or a small one person, you know, show and be able to actually monetize those quite successfully. And I think, you know, we're seeing more of that in terms of a cast, and those sorts of services and of course, megaphone as well. So, I think it's going to be really interesting.
I think distribution is the key, isn't the BBC NPR used to be there only way to get mass audience distribution. Now you can do that straight over the web and direct to consumer. So I think the other thing that's interesting though, it may be a thing to think about if you're naming your podcast, put your name in it. Cause then the BBC and NPR can't have it. So top gear didn't put their name in it. And so the BBC kept that IP and just put new presenters in.
Yes, mark Kermode and Simon Mayo kept it. Peter crouch kept it. Emily Maitlis kept it, but America, Carson newscast stayed with the BBC. So put your name in your podcast. Is the answer,
are you going to be doing any podcasts with, with Bloomberg
it's possible. They have, you know, a podcast network, of course. but. Nothing right now, like nothing, you know, on the agenda. And I think I'd have to probably, I'm just trying to get settled first. How are you still
getting your feet under the table? Make sure it says
actually Coleman in the name, then
I'm going to turn it in and keep that going for
a minute. James is replacing me very soon
and you're doing a newsletter as well. Aren't you? is there, and that's to launch later on this year. is there a name for that yet?
Not
yet. no, really, please. If you have puns, I accept them. but yeah, no, not yet. It's going to be a very audio centric newsletter. Like I said, I'm going to be doing some music industry coverage as well. So I'm really hoping to be able to cover both worlds. I think that there's going to be a great intersection of the two spaces. Ultimately, we're just going to think of everything is audio content. and so I think what happens in podcasts will influence the music world.
So anyway, long story short, yes. I will be doing a newsletter. It should be coming up this summer. Everybody, please subscribe.
We will put a link in the show notes for those of you listening, on demand as a podcast, we'll be putting a link to the show notes, for that. But, yeah, no, I'm. and is that going to be weekly? Have you worked out the general shape of that?
The plan was weekly? because it's still a little bit out. We haven't like revisited an iron, not the details, but as far as I know, it will be weekly. I'm still figuring out, you know, where it slots into the podcast newsletter ecosystem, like your flatter, you know, so trying to figure out what I can bring to the table. That's a little bit different than that's already out there.
yeah, maybe, maybe a great way for you, for people to be able to follow your, your stories without, you know, paying for the whole Bloomberg thing, which I guess is, you know, one of those, one of those things too, isn't it
now moving on, ah, de script, which I like to use for audio editing, have announced coming out very shortly, a first look at something called new workflows and it let you to editing in D script with one click. So some of our favorite video streamers are there. Riverside, our sponsors squad cast are friends of the show captivate, and one I've not really used myself XtremIO, but it looks like a D script starting to branch out to get itself integrated into the work. Yeah,
it's all really interesting. I find it fascinating that there are lots of different companies now doing plugins to other companies just to make life, you know, an awful lot easier, Riverside did that plug into Spotify, which was a very clever, you know, a very clever move. So, yeah, the more of that, the better, as far as I'm concerned, do
you, you don't, as you don't have your podcast at the moment nationally, but we, do you edit it yourself or would you be editing it yourself?
I do not edit audio. but I have used descript, in the past, when I used to do a podcast, we use descrip, a few times and it's very cool. I used it also when we were, I did a podcast, I guess it was last year now, with the synthetic voices and we messed with descript software to do that, which was, you know, creepy and fun and weird. but yeah, for someone like me who doesn't, you know, get super granular editing audio, obviously descript is a tool that is designed.
For people like me who need to just get it done quick and dirty and try to get it over with and sounding good enough.
Yeah. and it's great. It's one of the things that I was showing off to the radio industry, you know, the thesis of the talk that I gave at the radio days, Europe conference last week was basically, we've moved from a world where, you have to have massive, great, big studios and very expensive equipment to being able to do pretty well.
Anything you want on your own laptop using consumer, consumer technology and showing the radio industry, some of the new tools that podcasters get to play with, and I showed a bit of the scripts and, you know, you could hear people's, you know, gasps and, you know, and them going, oh, wow. So we don't have to use pro tools and all this kind of stuff. It was really. Yeah, it was really interesting. And it, to me, I find it fascinating the whole world of, you know, professional audio.
If you like, in terms of the, in terms of the heritage, radio broadcasters, meeting the world of podcasting, I find it fascinating seeing what happens there. if you want to
know more, they're doing a live webinar on
00 AM. Pacific St. James. Perfect timing.
Oh, excellent. yes, that'll be in the middle of the night for me, but, yes, I'm sure it will be fine.
Now let's move on to some quick news. James, you wrote a piece about, a pirated copy of your podcast if you found it, here's how you can report it. Or James, can you report it because there is a pirated copy of Portland out there
on Spotify. Yeah. And, reading it, reading this in the script is the first that I know about it. Thanks
for reading it early then.
Yeah. I'm registered the coffee shop a half an hour ago. so yes, I, so I'm, I am absolutely fascinated in, finding out where this pirated version of the show is coming from. What is confusing me and I am literally at the moment. I am literally at the moment doing, hacking into it, to work out where it's from weirdly it's from Buzzsprout as well. So it looks to be a duplicate, not a pirate, but we'll see what happens there, but not a feature, but there's a, but there's a story.
The will be a story in pod news next week, or whole orientating Bloomberg, later on this week, talking about what, talking about what some podcast hosts are finding their free trials being used for. so, that's going to be, that's going to be entertaining. It will be on Monday, because there's quite a lot of tech information there, but yeah, it turns out that free trials are being used for all kinds of things. That was, I was completely unaware of.
so it'll be fun to have a look at that and, you know, a pirated audio is part of that. but there is also, you know, other entertaining things as well. So yeah.
Love a mystery. What a little teaser. Yeah.
Sorry about it. And I, and you know, and I have just also taken, the other story that I'm hoping to break in the next week out of the script. Sorry. It's somebody is, somebody has already tweeted my mind at all my little piece of fun code, which we will talk about. I'm sure. Next week, once I've been able to get a few statements from, companies doing some interesting things.
Now you want to first look at a new company, a new. Publishing analytics and growth platform called cohost, the launch coincides with the release of co-hosts first annual podcast or insight survey. What's all who is co-host James.
Yeah, it's a new podcast hosting company, which has been produced by Quill up in Toronto, in Canada. And, you know, very cool. It's interesting seeing, I think, podcast hosts, beginning to niche and beginning to really focus on specific things, and a co-host is very much focusing on, you know, growth as well as monetization. and you know, really focusing on that rather than being a podcast host for all things, to all people. So interesting.
seeing that they also became a gold supporter on pod news, which was very kind of them, but news.net/support, a cast has done some integration with pod castle. It's another one of those integrations, like the. The script one that we were talking about, earlier, I really liked the idea. it was an Australian thing, but I really liked the idea of a company called pod now, which is, taking pop-up podcasts, studios into conferences.
We see pop-up podcasts, studios in podcasts conferences, all the time, but they don't normally, you know, they're not normally there for the, you know, for the, I dunno, the toilet association, annual conference or the, you know, the beanbag, conferences. So, you know, a really interesting idea of actually grabbing the idea, I think is if you grab speakers as they come off stage, then you can quickly get a, an interview with them. Turn that into a podcast, and then it works.
It's not case it's not catching up. no,
I don't. Like I could do it. I like, I just taught rubbish until there was serious jealousy. You could
do what you like. I'm not as serious. I got no, no qualifications at all. There's only one, there's only one qualified journalist on this show. Don't look this way. Yes. What else are we seeing this week? Sam?
The one thing, and Ashley, I wonder where the, what you think, but, audiograms, you know, should you use them? Shouldn't you use them? There's been reports that they're a waste of time. No one needs them. and now we've got another report saying, from Riverside saying that audiograms work five times, as well as static images on social media, where do you stand? Are we just all pushing noise out and no one's listening or is there a good way to get podcast discovery through audiograms?
I'd be very curious. What Riverside's methodology is for finding out whether audiograms work well, but, I don't know. if it really is, if it really is a significant time suck and you, you can measure your engagement, I think, on your audio gram. So if you're seeing no engagement and you're putting a time at time, ton of time in. It seems to me, you should probably give that up.
But at the same time, I totally empathize with people who is like, how else are you going to put audio out on Twitter or something like that, which is fair. And I do think there probably need to be some better solutions for it. I know people were hoping like Facebook ads to be able to play audio books. I don't think they do right now. so I know things like that where people are hoping that could change.
Yeah. and, you know, there's, and there's companies like Adori labs, which are looking at automating the entire thing. So being able to automatically pull in, you know, images and other, stuff to basically make the video bit work, which is really cool if you can do that. So, yeah. I, you know, interesting seeing, you know, I think it's certainly going to be a thing in the future in terms of YouTube, because obviously, you know, you'll need.
The visuals, their signal hill insights released some data earlier on in the week showing that people, really, want to, you know, if there's something on YouTube, then they want video to be with that. So they want it to be a nice experience. and, and, you know, I know that, next week pod news will be carrying some really good data about how YouTube, how popular YouTube is in terms of podcasts, audiences as well. So, yeah, so it'll be fascinating to have a look at two. Okay.
Moving on one more thing. Then a road is to release a brand new road cast approach to, they didn't say they were going to do someone by mistake, leaked it out.
Yes, a New Zealand website, basically published the whole thing, which was very kind of them for six hours. the graphics and images, the graphics and images on the spec sheet as well, which was kind of them. it's going to be properly launched next week road, of course, being an Australian company, and, very good to, Michael Sterling's Sterling clear audio was the, blog that, leaked all of that. it looks great.
It looks, you know, you're using a road Casta, in front of us right now, and I'm sure that, the new version is going to be even smarter and even cooler. So really nice to end up. Yeah, now it
will eat. One of the big things is going to allow us to do is to put two laptops into the same road mixer. and you can also do guitar and, external mix as well,
which is quite nice. 10 minutes left. Let's talk people, lots of move, lots of moves at Spotify. Ashley we've seen, changes of, senior management, Michael Miniato leaving, which I think was one of your many scoops, max Cutler being, promoted. there are OES bill Simmons, being promoted to Matt Leiber going, folks from reply, all going as well. What's going on over there. Is it as simple, is it as simple as, it's a three and a half years since given it was bought or whatever that is.
And so therefore it's people's contracts.
Yeah. I think oftentimes founders tend to leave the companies once their options vest or whatever their contract expires. So, you know, I it's always tricky because on one hand you're like, all these people are leaving at once. And Courtney hall also left that one a bit more striking only because he didn't come through an acquisition. He was hired. He was one of the original podcast strategy architects over there.
So. Yeah, I think there's clearly some kind of rethinking around how they're structuring things. They obviously shut down studio for, I think it was in December or January of this year. and so clearly they're reorganizing, rethinking, maybe want the shows they put effort into and how they work with partners. and you know, James, you've written about this quite a bit, like given that many of their partner shows the splashy announcements haven't really come to fruition.
You know, I think we can fill in the blanks there as to maybe they do need to rethink how they work with these partners.
Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting watching. I just look into this and go, there are so many people, there are so many people there. and, yeah, I'm surprised at how many people are, you know, working on that sort of thing.
So, maybe it's just a case of actually, thinning the amount of management folk, you know, at there, if we are, indeed at the start of a recession and the start of, you know, some, you know, economic issues, one of the first things to go in terms of that is advertising anyway. So, you know, perhaps there's a little bit of planning, you know, on the. Again, maybe it's just a case of, you know, it's, it's a, you know, the end of, of somebody's contract time. Yeah.
Amazon seems to be at it as well. So Amazon's director of podcast announced he left the company to start his own stealth company. Todd Pringle. Who's been with Amazon podcast operations since the start. So yeah, that was an Ashley scoop as well, by the way, just give her the credit for that as well.
So we may as well, we may as well have a button saying another, actually another actually comments.
th the verge had the McDonald's scoop. And then, yeah, I read about LIBOR leaving.
so, so what, Amazon is fascinating because you've got Wondery, which you know, is doing great guns by all accounts. but Amazon doesn't seem to be moving the needle in terms of a podcast destination. we're not necessarily seeing Wondery promote Wondery plus in the Amazon music podcast player. You know what I mean? It's all. do you see Amazon still wanting to be a destination in terms of an app? You know,
I honestly am not totally sure. Like, it was very clear that Spotify has ambitions both to be a place where people like, basically they want everyone to consume audio on their platform. Amazon, you know, is doing pretty well regardless. So I almost wonder if it's more about the advertising business. I'm pretty sure insider wrote a story the other day about how their advertising business. Been great for them.
and I can imagine they see podcasting slash audio in general, just as a really rich place to do that. I've been surprised at how little I've heard about like art 19 as an example. It doesn't really, I don't really hear people talk about it as much, whereas like Spotify is constantly pushing megaphone and also anchor. so yeah, I'm not totally sure what their like big, broad thinking is, but it seems like, you know, they're pretty interested in locking up those exclusive.
To do ad sales and represent them.
no, it's really, it will be really interesting to see what goes on there. One other person, that we should mention is, Elena Fernandez Collins, that they're well-known podcast critic. They've written about, podcasting, the host podcasting than are working at simple cast. so many congratulations, there. what else should we do Sam?
Very quickly. Just one big announcement in tech corner. the new
Oh, yes, that's right. Yes. Lots of work in terms of, making sure that, you know, if you're using a new podcast app, you know, that, that your favorite podcast is going live. we will have, have saddened, Adam and Dave by not, using that for this, live experience, but, who knows what we might, I'm
trying to still work out how to use it. So, yeah, Adam and Dave, come on and let me know, please. okay. we should wrap up there very quickly, event corner. next week, James, you are here for one reason, your apart from your Swedish visit, you're here for something else.
Yes. So I'm here for the podcast show 2022, which starts on Wednesday. there's two full days of a, of a business conference. there's also a week's worth of live shows as well, which I think is a great plan to do around. Podcast, a conference to actually get, you know, it surprises me when you go to these large podcast conferences, how little talent there is there. I don't mean how little talent, in terms of people. how little podcasts are being made there.
That's what I really mean to say, Doug help, digs very hard. so, yeah, so that's great to end up seeing, so, yeah, so I'm hoping to catch a few shows there, but that's going to be next week. You have, you, you have done the slightly foolish thing of, booking a very small pub for a drinks, and then publishing on Twitter.
I'm having a party at the house. Here's it? Here's the announcement on Facebook? No one else will turn up. Honestly, dad, here's the
address. So yeah. So good luck with that, but I'm looking forward to that on a Tuesday. That should be fun.
Yeah.
00 PM. If you're in Belgravia, 17th century, Which is haunted. It's the old Grenadier guards
officer club. See what you're missing. Ashley. See what you're missing?
That sounds cool.
Yeah,
it's okay. I'll be there.
yeah, you could be working on, Bloomberg has some very posh offices in the city, so you should be working out or there for this week. and of course, podcast movement coming up in Dallas, in Texas in, August. I really must have organized my, tickets for
that. Yeah. And one other event that we want to publicize Pinterest has been announced as the lead part of the international women's podcast festival here in London. the event is Saturday, June the 18th, James. You've been very kindly offering,
some discounts. Yeah. It's not me kindly offering them. it's the organizers, but yes, if you are outside the UK and you just want a virtual ticket, then there's money off that. And there's also virtual. and then there's also in-person tickets for the UK, folk as well. You'll find all the details in our show notes and the pod news newsletter at pod news.
James. Now, what's been happening for you in Portland?
yes, I've been, I tell you one thing I did do, I took the seventh longest commercial flight to get here from Dom. all the way to London. and if you're interested in that, then, you should, yeah, go back through my Twitter or something and find the seventh law find my trip report. Cause I rather tediously I'm one of these people that writes, to keep myself sane on long journeys. and just write a log of what people just watch films, James. Yeah, I know. I don't
drink
alcohol. Yeah. Oh, I know I do that. Do both. so that was fun. went to see my family in Wales in Welsh Wales, which was also fun. trying desperately to drive a stick shift car. And the first time, for the first time in six years, it's not going very well. so I got here. Yeah, I got, might not get back. I got here. It's the funny sort of smell of, of burning when you're in reverse. That slightly concerns me. what's happening for you this week in Portland, Sam? the last
week I was doing something called podcasts in the park. it was an events. So, local chefs, Michelin chefs, Tom carriage, Michelle brew. I interviewed them. I interviewed the remaining sister sledge sister that was quite entertaining. She had her daughters with her onstage. So they're called the sister sledge now, but it's only one sister. The other two that are what they're done. Didn't ask her to schedule.
Sister daughter sledge. Yeah.
Yeah. Rag and bone man and McFly. So that was a bit of fun. Last week. I will be with you at the podcast show. I'm on stage for so many talking about, the growing love affair between podcasts, film, and TV, and actually Sony. I'm curious, we never talk about them. We talk about Amazon, we've talked about apple. We talk about Spotify, but Sony are investing heavily into podcasting. So it'd be interesting to see what they have to say.
Yeah, most definitely. And, with their acquisition of something else, you know, that's a big UK powerhouse that w which has gone in there as well. so yeah, absolutely. I will also be onstage at the podcast show. I'm doing a session about monetization, with a bunch of people from Sony. I'm doing a session about. Tenderfoot TV, which will be really interesting.
I know very little about tend to foot TV and, by Wednesday I'll know a lot more because I had to read up about it in order to ask some sensible questions of, Donald Albright. And, and I'm also talking about where the future of podcasting is going. So we'll, we'll see how that goes.
What's happening for you, Ashley? What's coming up. What's
coming up. Wow. I don't want to give away too much of what I'm working
on. What are you like?
Hey James, not mine. Aren't in the show notes, so I don't have to read them. It's going to be 90 degrees in New York tomorrow. Supposedly I don't know what that is in Celsius. I can't help you, but I'm very warm. Yeah. It was very warm. So I might try to make my way to the beach. We'll
see. Oh,
very nice. 32 Celsius. For those of you playing along it to home. we're off for a crafty tug now. Aren't we? Yes. W which is a, which is Sam's, Sam's, boat where he serves beer. Yup.
Yup. We
have a ton. Okay. I'm really coming out to London next year because I want that boat invite. I want the 17th century pub invite. Ah,
yeah. And now I'm going to show you when the other ones we've got eight double Decker buses. this'll be
great. this is a great
podcast. That's for those who can't see, that's the inside of the double Decker. So we've got a studio.
It looks like London. Excellent. we will, yes. come next year for podcast show 20, 23, if they haven't gone bust and she podcasts. No, absolutely. she, podcasts will be good. do you have a date for that?
No, but I have a new venue.
And we're aligned on that bombshell. that's it for this week, if you like pipeline, tell others to visit, tell your friends on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, Tik TOK, or, wherever and wherever
you can also email comments at Podland dot noodle. Find all of our previous shows and the interviews at the pod landowner news.
if you want daily news, you should get pod news. The newsletter is free at pod news dot nets. The podcasts can be found in your podcast app and all the stories we've discussed on pod land today are in the show notes. We use chapters and transcripts too, and I should also point out obviously, if you want to learn more about what Ashley is doing, then you should be going to have a look on, Bloomberg. is there a simple URL, Ashley that we should be pointing people to?
I feel like anytime you're telling people to go to a URL, it's never going to be simple, follow me on Twitter at Ashley R Carmen. I tweet all my stories. So you'll
find it there. I thought just asked me the question. Mostly the all star.
Oh, my middle initial, unfortunately, Ashley Carmen at Salesforce. If she has listened to this podcast, please give me the handle off. Don't use it. I pretty sure people have followed you because they think you're me. Like let's just.
I once, I want a mess, a lovely woman. This was about 15, 20 years ago, in Dublin, in Ireland. And she was absolutely, you know, I was quite, quite to smitten and she contacts James Cridland on Facebook. and everything goes really quiet for about two weeks. and I think, oh, that's a shame. Cause you know, cause she was quite fun and it turns out that she was talking to James crit and the student from Bristol, you bastard, James critical student from Bristol. That's all I could say.
Not still forgotten I'm music is from ignites. Jingles were hosted and sponsored by good friends Buzzsprout and squad cars to, and until next week, keep listening and thank you
for watching. Take care.
Thank you so much.