Welcome to Portland. The last word in podcasting news. Portland is sponsored by riverside.fm, recording podcasts and video interviews in studio quality just got an upgrade and an iOS app. And by Buzzsprout used by over 100,000 podcasters like us to host, promote and track your podcast. It's the 16th of September, 2021 by and James. Cridlin the editor of pod news.net here in Queensland in Australia.
The home of the Olympics in 2032. Yes. I'm Sam Sethi, the MD of river radio podcast. First radio station here in the UK. My
name is Austin, Mary I'm, the CEO of fountain, and I'll be on the show later talking about the fountain app, creating clips from podcasts and supporting. On cars street that value for value that standard. I'm Alex
Jacoby from Germany. I'm an audio entrepreneur and I'm the founder of sonar bird IO, a podcast hosting and production as software as a service company. And I'll be on the show today to talk about our idea, to make podcasts, analytics, data portal with the open podcast analytics for that.
Gosh, he sounds excited. Yes, they will. Pod land is a weekly podcast where Sam and I delve deeper into the week's podcasting news. So
James let's get on with the big stories, but we have to go back. Last week's first.
Have we upset anybody? I think we
have not the person you should upset. Really. The pod father himself is really upset with us and the pod, bro. It'll be decided he's he's the Pope bro, or the pod mother
we'll come back to that later in booster, ground corners, the return of booster Graham corner this week. But, uh, yeah. So what, what happened last week and why?
Yep. So last week we had valley virtue after from the Brookings institution talking about misinformation in podcasts, Adam Curry and Dave Jones started podcasting two dot oh, their wonderful podcast episode 53, if you're looking for it and they went on a 20 minute rant about me and do James.
Yes. And, and I think about Valerie's. Um, Sam, where did you grow up?
I grew up in the UK in a little place called Lufburrow. We should
probably stop any conversation around governments and censorship and everything else by just saying that we both have grown up in Western Europe. And typically you trust government in Western Europe, they pay for our health care. They set rules to keep us safe. And I went and did a little bit of research with pew research and they say that 50% of people in the UK are happy with government. And that goes right down to 35% in the U S and also we have different broadcast rules too.
And those are important as well. So what Valerie was talking about last time was very much talking about misinformation in podcasting and there being no way to report that. Well, here's a little clip of Dave and Adam, uh, talking about that. If you have a problem with potentially false information on another part,
Go start a podcast, play
clips. Talk about how wrong. Give your opinion to counter their opinion. It's the way the
it's actually
the way, um, people are used to working. It's the way things work in society. It's like, I, you know, I have an opinion. I disagree. If someone else couldn't say, Hey, he said this and you know, it's, it's called discourse. It's called. Intellectual intercourse. And I think that clip highlights what I think the confusion is here because Dave was talking about somebody having an opinion and opinions are great, and I can have a wrong opinion. And, and you say, I'm going to have a wrong opinion.
Occasionally I was going to say often, so nobody is stopping people, having opinions. I think there's always a big difference between something presented as an opinion and something presented as a fact. And when I listened to Valerie's interview with you last week, Sam, she was talking about misinformation, something that is presented as fact that is wrong and harmful to others is a bad thing.
So. I think if she was saying, as it stands podcast hosts don't know that they have harmful content on their system. And I'm talking deliberately about harmful content, not a wrong opinion, but harmful content because most podcast apps give you no way to tell a podcast host about it. And in fact, most podcast apps don't even tell you who the podcast host is. How do you know whether this show is being hosted by Buzzsprout or by Libsyn or by red circle or by captivate or anybody else?
You know, nobody you can't really tell from your particular podcast app. I think what Valerie was talking about was better reporting tools so that a podcast host knows what stuff they have on their platform. And if they want to, they can take action. And if they don't want to take action, then that's absolutely fine as well. Um, but I think that's what she was talking about. Uh, so, and what did you take out of that?
Great. I love this quote opinions are like a holes. Everyone has one. They just think each other's stinks. So. The idea is that you can have an opinion all day long. What we're saying, James is when it crosses that line into misinformation and is stated as a fact, that's when we think there's a problem. And we think that people who are listeners should be able to use the wisdom of the crowd to report that back to the host.
And as you said, James, it's not up to the host, then what they do from there. We're not asking for censorship. We're not asking for deep platforming. That is then a particular situation that the host can deal with more likely than not, that we'll end up with a, you know, somebody suing someone, taking them to court, and then eventually the host having to take it down. If it's. At that level, but no, Adam, Dave, we're not asking for government control.
We're not asking for censorship and we're not asking for deep platforming, we're just asking for better tools. And I think that's a good start.
You go through linked to some tweets from Nicki Minaj, who I believe is a popular, uh, is a popular music singer,
um, on your playlist every day. James, Nicki Minaj, yeah. Is, is a famous rap singer. She's got 157 million followers on Instagram and 22.6 million followers on Twitter. She put out a tweet this week. Now that could have been a podcast. Th the idea or the concepts exactly the same. She put out a tweet saying my cousin in Trinidad won't get the vaccine because his friend got it and became impotent. His testicles became swollen. His friend was weeks away from getting married.
Now the girl called off the wedding. So just pray on it, make sure you're comfortable with your decision. Now that's total misinformation that has been debunked. By all the medical people saying that is not the case, that's resulted from the vaccine. Um, but she is such an influencer that it's actually resulted in the black community men deciding not to go and get the vaccine. Now that's causing a lot of problems. People to actually put themselves in harm's way.
She's delivered that as fact, hasn't she, that, uh, the vaccine causes you to become impotent, which is clearly not the case and that there is no medical evidence to that whatsoever. And I think that's the thing. It's stuff like that, which will harm our listeners. And, and by the way, I don't think this has got anything to do with advertisers. People support things that are good, that treat them well and value for value. Also fails.
If we do a rubbish show, if we give out bad information, we treat our audiences badly. I don't think it's anything to do with advertisers. I think it's just doing the right thing for your audience. What I found interesting is. Episode of podcasting 2.0 was right at the end, either at a more Dave, I can't remember who said that podcast index removes shows from their directory. If the content on them is illegal. So the government sets the law.
So there's actually even no freedom of speech, even in the podcast index. So we're all talking about the same thing here. We're doing the right thing by our audience and we're making sure that misinformation stuff, which is harmful, doesn't get there. And I think that's all good. I think we're all on the same side actually here. Yes. Well,
we, we, we are totally. On the same side.
So, so I guess one of the ways of, you know, just, uh, alerting a podcast host to knowing that they have something which is bad on their network is perhaps to use things like clips. Yeah.
So what I did this week was I caught up with Oscar, Mary he's, the CEO and founder of fountain, which has a wonderful new podcasting app, which includes clips. Now he uses clips to allow listeners to, uh, take the transcription a bit like the script and highlight the bit that you want to share with people. And that's a positive for discovery as we'll find out. But also we were thinking that that could be used as a great tool in ergo. What Valerie's asking for.
I caught up with Oscar and I asked him more about fountain.
Fountain is a podcast app and it allows you to create uncheck clips from the favorite moments in the podcast. You're listening to, as well as this, you can also support your favorite podcasts with Bitcoin through the podcasting 2.0 value for value standard.
Why did you want to build a fountain yourself? Why didn't you just go and use another app? I think
the core problem that we set out to address with fountain was around the personal problem that I've had with podcasting, which is often I'll look at my podcast feed and I'll have so many episodes that I want to listen to, but I just don't have the time. I'll have a two hour episode here, an hour and a half episode there, and there's just no way I can get to all of the episodes. And I know I'm missing out on some incredible content. And so we thought, how can we address that problem?
That's why we set out to build the clipping feature, because we believe that in the same way, podcasters will take what they believe to be the best bit of that episode. Turn it into an audiogram and share that on social media. We believe there's an opportunity for listeners to do the same thing. So that's what we've built into fountain. You can create a clip from the actual transcript, which makes creating that. Much easier.
And then you can share that clip as an audiogram, both within fountain, because we have social features, so you can follow people and see what clips they're creating. But also importantly, you can share those clips outside of fountain as audio grams. So you can share them on Twitter or Instagram or wherever already. You can send them in a, in a WhatsApp message.
Which is really cool, which is one of the features I've been asking for ages from podcast apps, because I have the same requirement is I've got the interesting part of a podcast. I want to share that with a friend, but I don't want to just share as T equals 25 seconds or two minutes in. I want it to take that little bit of clip, give it to them and have a link back to the podcast.
That would be the thing that will get them to be excited just about coming back to listen just as much as I was about
exactly. And it's really interesting in the past few months, since we've had this feat to live, you get a window into your friends and family and their podcast listening. Wasn't really possible before. And I found that really interesting, just hearing small snippets of podcasts that I would never listen to, but that doesn't mean I don't get value from an eclipse or just, it's interesting to see what people are listening to.
Now, when I downloaded fountain the other day, I tried to install a lightning wallet and handout. Satoshi's, I'm fairly technical. I clearly not as technical as you or James, but I sort of hit a brick wall. Can you explain to me how as an end user, I would actually use value for value and how I would buy something.
So it's definitely a challenge right now, and it's still very early with a value for value and lightening payments, but to put it simply. Right now in order to fund your fountain lightning wallet, you need to already have this on the lightning network in another app, because we don't currently allow you to buy Bitcoin within fountain.
So the way I top up my wallet, and this is probably the easiest way right now is I use a Bitcoin lightning wallet called blue wallet, and I will actually buy Bitcoin within blue wallet. You can do that just with a debit or credit. And then once that's confirmed, I will send the Satoshis from my blue wallet back into fountain, and then I'm ready to go supporting other podcast. I love
now, is there a plan in the future for you to actually then directly by fear currency to Satoshi through fantasy?
So I think
we definitely want to make it as easy as possible for people to get their Bitcoin, get their sites within fountain. I think we'll have to see how the space develops, because I think we've got an advantage here. The adoption of Bitcoin and lightning is not just happening within podcasting, it's happening across the board. And so people are going to become more familiar with Bitcoin, more familiar with lightning app wallets. And so we've got this on our side and whether it's by.
Offering the ability to buy Bitcoin directly in the app or some kind of integration with a wallet. Like if you look at wallets like strike in the U S or that there's UK equivalents and others around the globe, I think we definitely want to make it easier for people to get their first stats on content. The exact method of how we do that is still TBC. How long has fountain been going? So we've been live on iOS and Android for six weeks.
So we're still appreciate all of the users that have stuck with us in this early time and reported bugs and asked for feature requests. This is something. We love to hear. And we're every request that we get. We stick on the backlog and we're working hard to implement all of these features. We've actually got a big new update coming. I think we'll be live on iOS and Android by the time this goes out, which has a bunch of bug fixes.
So if you've reported a bug to found them, it's probably fixed in this update. If not, let me know. So please keep the bug reports coming in. The feature requests coming. We also have support for chapters, which is something that another podcasting 2.0 feature that people love that we'll have support for that in the next update as well.
But there are other features that you're updating in the next. This
update primarily it was about performance and bug fixes. And there's a huge long list in the release notes that you'll see around things that people have reported. Like we'll release
that roadmap because I'm sure you have one, every good developer has a roadmap. Is there a feature that's on your wishlist that you want to bring in? And I know it might not come into the next version, but is there something that you go, this is the one thing I really want to get, but you haven't quite got there yet.
So for me, creating clips is a really exciting part of fountain, more people to create Kips. And one barrier to that right now is the transcription. So just to explain how the clipping works for people that haven't tested out fountain. Allow you to create a clip from the transcript. So rather than selecting a start time and an end time for the segment that you want, we'll actually show you the transcript and you can edit the text and then we edit the audio for you afterwards.
And this just makes it much easier to hold the context of what the clips about in your head and think about how other people will listen to that. And we found that makes it easier to create better quality clips. So obviously we need the transcript of each episode.
And one of the things that we struggled with is a lot of podcasts have dynamic ad insertion, which means that the timestamp of the transcripts that you might get will be different to the one I get because we'll have different length ads at the beginning or at the end. So right now, when you create a clip, we do a custom. For you so that you have accurate timing information. And this means that there's a delay in the transcript being available about two to three minutes.
So once you get used to found it, it's fine because when you hear something that you want to create a clip of, you just hit the transcript button, you hit the clip button, and it's going to be there in two to three minutes. But obviously, especially for new users, checking out bounce into the first time. That's a bit of a barrier because it's annoying to have to wait for two to three minutes.
I think where we're working on a way to have the transcript available instantly, which will mean you can create clips instantly. And that for me is a really important update because I think it will just increase the amount of clips being created. And that's it core part of what we're trying to do at
fountain is this your full-time job now creating counting.
So I'm working on fountain full time.
Brilliant. What else have you seen in the podcast world? That's exciting. What else have you seen that you thought this is good? This is cool.
So I think I have to just give a shout-out to Adam and day from podcasting 2.0. Because they are just, they created some incredible features for podcasting. I'm sure your listeners know. I getting everyone incredibly excited about where podcasting is going.
And I think there's even more coming down the line from podcasting 2.0, I think things like the ability to have a live episode and allow apps to detect that and show a different UI because that episode is actually streaming live and things like that. Shout out to Adam and Dave. I think the features that they're working on and proposal. I'm going to be really exciting.
Really. I'll just get reminded alone where they can get the phone to now. So you
can go to fountain.fm and download fountain on iOS and Android. And if you have any feedback or feature requests, or you just want to talk about podcasting or bit going, feel free to email me. My email is Bhaskar
fountain or FM Mary from, uh, the fountain app. It's a very good one. If you're listening, uh, press that boost button and that'll be a wonderful thing. I also know. Talking about sharing clips as Oscar was at the beginning of that, that, um, our sprouts has had visual sound bites for the last nine months or so. And, uh, they are very cool part of the podcast namespace and, uh, they work very fine.
Uh, if you'd like to learn more about visual soundbites, you'll find more information around that in the Buzzsprout website,
uh, clips, the way that Oscar described them are a great way for discovery. And he's creating a search element around them as well. So maybe somebody just wants to take a clip from this podcast, share it. And then that allows the person they've shared it with, to go, oh, well that was a great clip. I wonder if the rest of the podcast worth listening to the visual soundbites that Buzzsprout have are a creative. Top-down tool.
So you and I, James could create a visual soundbite, uh, others called them audio grams and use that for our social media promotion. Great way of doing it. What has done is created this from the listener point of view. And again, I think what's possible.
And what boss sprout are starting to do, which why I think imitation is the sincerest form of flattery is they couple of weeks ago, we described them that you can now put a link to a certain specific time point in a episode as a listener and share that with your social network or just some close friends.
If Buzzsprout extended the visual soundbites tool they have for creators and made that available to listeners, then as a listener, I could actually create a visual soundbite, which is exactly what Oscar Mary's clips are. And I could then actually then share that as an audio gram or a soundbite from the listener perspective. Again, I think what we are advocating for is that the last 12 months, you know, Adam and Dave have done a great job with the namespace of bringing what I call top down tools.
So extending the namespace with a location and a hosting and other tools that, you know, make the podcast much more richer. But what I think we're at the point in podcasting now is to create bottom up architectural tools. So listener base tools, Oscars, adding clips for discovery. And I think Buzzsprout could extend that as
well. Yeah. And I think listener based tools as well in terms of booster grams, obviously where we get to hear back from our audience. And also, and I know that, uh, Adam and Dave and the rest of the podcast 2.0, um, uh, set of folks are busy working on comments that work across every single podcast app out there, which is a wonderful thing. So, uh, all of that kind of stuff is I think really useful, uh, for, as we move.
Okay. And talking about moving on, let's move on to another story. Richard Kramer. He's an analyst for a, a research. Now Richard has recently published, uh, a article about Spotify, criticize him saying, taking shows exclusive, reduces their reach and attractiveness to advertisers. It goes on to say, few titles are popular enough to bring in new subscribers, to offset the loss of ad revenue from greater reach. He thinks that actually it.
The podcast publisher in other ways as well, like event ticket sales books. So what he's saying, I think James, maybe you can clarify is that actually going exclusive with Spotify is not a great
idea. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this was part of a client, uh, note that he sent out to array researchers, customers, basically looking into Spotify, a current revenue he has as a big section in there, all about podcast exclusivity, a double edged sword and points out that actually it doesn't necessarily help. Uh, many creators Brenae brown.
For example, her books sales went down after she went behind Spotify as paywall because her podcast was promoting her books and all of a sudden, uh, fewer people can actually hear those books. I should say. It's not Spotify as paywall. That's what he called it. It's um, just being exclusive on Spotify and still have listened free. That's all fine. But, uh, yeah, so he's basically saying that that's not necessarily a good place.
And that really, you know, it works for some shows, but doesn't work for most shows our marketing teams resent their products, being used to bait subscribers, um, to, uh, you know, download the Spotify app and so on and so forth. So it was quite a, um, it was quite a bullish client, uh, note and he finishes off by saying we think Spotify needs new management and a new approach.
Ouch. Um, so I think, uh, you know, he, he was certainly quite, um, uh, quite outspoken in terms of where he sees Spotify going.
He does a great podcast. The friend of the show will page, uh, they've got a podcast called bubble trouble and I highly recommend having a listen to that one. They're both economists and they've got a really interesting insight into how this world is working with, uh, podcasting and, uh, the music India.
Absolutely have a listen. Now don't have a listen in a couple of weeks time because I'll be a guest on for, in a couple of weeks time and you'll go, oh, not this guy can,
well, actually Richard has agreed to come onto our show as well. So
quid pro quo, indeed. Interestingly enough, I was chatting with him because I rang up to find out how to pronounce a red day research because it's not very obvious when it's written down. And, um, we got talking about Spotify and advertisers as I was talking to him. I realized that wouldn't it be interesting if I could download all of my personal data from Spotify to find out what they know about me. So I ended up doing that. I learnt a little bit of information. I, it was interesting.
They learn, they know actually much less about me than I thought that they would perhaps that's because I've, unticked the button that says, uh, I would like bespoke advertising to me or perhaps it's just because I pay for it. So I don't hear any advertising anyway, but I did learn for example, that Spotify knows that I drive a Toyota. Because I've connected my phone to my Toyota's Bluetooth system. Also Spotify says that I prefer short podcasts.
I suspect that this is because I just listened to two pod news on Spotify just to check that it's there every now and again. So Spotify is obviously going well. He clearly doesn't listen very long. And if you compare what Spotify knows about me with what Google podcasts knows about me, for example, Google podcasts knows exactly what I've searched for. Google podcasts knows exactly what email I get. It can see into my Google docs. Probably it can. It knows what I've got in YouTube.
What I watch there as well. So Google podcasts has so much more information than I will ever do. From Spotify. So I thought that was a, it was just quite interesting realizing that Google and indeed apple now Norfolk a lot more about me or could know an awful lot more about me than Spotify Everwill. So I,
I always liked to apply. So what tests things when, when what I hear statements, so they know all these things about me. So what, what can they do,
James? Well, I mean, if they know, for example that you have kids at home, then that's a great place to advertise a kids, um, you know, stuffed toys and a kid's food and all of that sort of thing. So it all comes down to the advertising, but you know, is that a bad thing? Well, I, you know, I would argue probably not because actually, if I do have kids of four or five at home, Spotify has realized that Spotify is advertising things that my kids are four or five might find good.
Then that's probably quite useful. I'm kind of one of these people who most of the time probably wouldn't turn off personalized advertising because I recognize actually personalized advertising can be quite useful. Yeah.
I think I've always said actually in the. People who can't afford. Things will not see adverts, but they'll work out what, who we are, how much our income is. And they won't. For example, give you an Aston Martin ad. If they don't think you can afford an Aston Martin, I think that old adage of, you know, Ford, um, about how much you spend on your advertising and 50% of it, you don't know. Um, I think we will eventually see targeted advertising actually becoming useful.
How are those Viagra ads coming along, James?
Now, now. Um, I, I mean, I think, uh, I think you're right, but I also think of course that if you are comparatively rich, then you will pay to get rid of the ants anyway. Yeah. And I think that's one of the problems that Richard was pointing out to me on the phone. If, um, you know, Spotify premium subscribers are clearly richer than those who are listening to it for free, because they can afford the $15 a month or whatever it is to get rid of the ads.
Similarly, I get rid of the ads on YouTube, um, because I happened to use the YouTube music service and that's what it comes with. So actually it's going to be quite hard for you to market your Alfa Romeo to, to me or your, you know, uh, fancy BMW car, uh, to me because, you know, you can't actually get those advertisers. You can't actually get that advertising in front of me. Um, You know, cause I've paid to get rid of the ads. So I think that that again is a problem.
And I think it's a particular problem that compares quite nicely to, you know, free to air TV or to broadcast radio where you get everybody gets the ads. There'd
be a time James, where dynamic content insertion is injected into podcasts by the likes of Google, apple, and Spotify against anything that we want. And then will they say well to remove the dynamic content ads, you have to pay a further subscription to be added. Do you ever think that will occur? I
think that there are two sides to this. One side is, is Google working on a Google ad sense for audio? And the answer is yes, they'd been doing that for 15 years and they've never actually got anywhere. Um, but, uh, I mean, I remember going to an NAB Europe conference in Rome, in Italy probably 15 years or so ago. And there was somebody from Google there who was very excited about their, their new ad sense for audio platform, which was just around the corner and it never launched.
And I think that is clearly something that Google is interested in, uh, doing, has always been interested in doing, but on the other side, yeah. I mean, will there be more tears in Spotify? So, you know, you can actually get rid of all of the ads which are being injected into the Joe Rogan podcast or, or something else. Yeah, probably in time. One would assume my thoughts on, you know, the Google AdSense for audio thing is if we can opt into that. And we can earn money out of that.
Maybe not us, but podcast is in general would probably find that quite nice. Um, but at the moment, there's no way of necessarily doing that, but I think anything that, um, uh, respects the creator, but allows, allows a creator to opt in to that sort of thing. I think that there's absolutely nothing wrong with
that now. Uh, Spotify, aren't getting off lightly this week nine to five max as Spotify falls short as a podcast app. What'd you think about that, James? Is it as podcast app
anyway? Well, they like apple music for them music rather than Spotify. And so, you know, you you've got that sort of side as well, but I think undoubtedly, the Spotify podcast experience is not a great experience in comparison to a proper podcast app. And there are, you know, more and more of those, which do a much better job. Um, you know, PocketCasts being the obvious, beautiful example. Could Spotify be a better podcast app?
Yes. But on the other hand, it hasn't stopped them from being number one. You know, they are number one in Germany with more than 50% of the podcast audience in Germany. And that's in spite of the fact that their podcast app isn't arguably as good as some other podcast apps. So, you know, perhaps that that's less of a problem than a, than it might be.
Well, let's move on. I think we've done enough. Spotify bashing this week. I wanted to cover an area that you've been writing about in pod news, or you have three or four stories actually, uh, looking at how podcasts are moving much. With international languages. The first one you started off with reviewing the Spanish market, James, uh, looking at how it's grown 6.8 times in the last year. Yes.
This is according to evokes. I believe that they are actually pronounced. I've been pronouncing them evokes for the last year and a half. And nobody's been polite enough to tell me that I'm wrong. But anyway, 55% of Spanish podcast listeners are listening more now than before the pandemic. Uh, it also says, so evokes released a bunch of, uh, data, which then worked on with a chartable and various other people as well.
And, um, you know, it's just really interesting seeing data from other countries and seeing how people are consuming podcasts, what they like, what they don't like and seeing, you know, all of the differences, the big growth actually last year was in Hindi podcasts, which went up more than 14 times podcasts in Chinese languages went up eight times and Portuguese went up seven times English only doubled. Um, but even so, I mean, doubled is still pretty good.
So, um, yeah, so it was interesting seeing that there's a bunch of, um, data from, uh, evokes. Spanish listeners are to get, you know, more big shows. It was interesting at, um, the IB podcast up-fronts last week, PRX was there and Radiotopia, which is part of PRX was talking about can Theone Exploder and can Theone. Exploder is the Spanish language version of song Exploder. It's going to be produced by add-on day media.
Who've done a good job of these sorts of things in the past, and that's going to be a pretty cool, so it's great to see more big shows being talked about in the Spanish language as
well. I think also, what are the other ones that you wrote about was a studio of chanter, which is run by Laurie Martinez. Uh, and she's starting to extend that Lori. I know because she was at my podcast festival back in March in 2019, and she came across my path through a friend of mine, Minter dial and Laurie. It has taken. Existing single language podcast and translated them into multiple languages. And that we thought that was a really great thing that she was doing.
She seems to be doing more of that now as well.
Yeah, she is. And she, you know, I mean, a studio or Shanta is a multi-lingual podcast company based in Paris. There again, I've been calling it our Cantor, so who knows it's pronounced. Oh. Um, but, um, one of the podcasts that they make is called , which is a Spanish and follow G series. It's basically fiction stories from across Latin America and its diasporas across the world.
And they are looking for pitches for their next stories related to fire, uh, in both the literal and figurative sense of the term. Of course, quite a lot of Spain is on fire at the moment. So, um, there there's a, there's a thing anyway. Um, Pitch process is open now and you'll find links to that in the pod news website.
Again, I think looking at just the growth in terms of, um, additional language podcasts here is really interesting and certainly the amount of additional content which is going on here is good too. Yeah.
As I said, I was talking about mentor as well. Who's a friend of the show. He signed up with evergreen podcasts, but one of the thing that's interesting about Minta, he publishes both his podcast in English and in French. Uh, he's fluent in seven languages. So it's not surprising. Gosh. Yeah. What'd you think next week we published this one in French or Hindi? What, what should we go for
James? I think that may be a difficult thing, although, um, I am working on something with Brian Barletta from sounds profitable, uh, which, uh, is going to be very cool where you may hear me talking a different language. I'm not fluent in any other language, but you may hear me talking in a different language in the future. Um, I will say no more on that because, uh, obviously it's Brian's story, not mine. Um, but, uh, let's wait and see how that bit works.
I look forward to that cling on episode,
cling on, Hey, well, there we are. Uh, Sirius XM. Yes, you cannot be serious.
Simple cars, founder and CEO, Brad Smith has been promoted. He's been named head of podcasts products for serious. Now I know Brad from talking to him on Sam Talks Technology, and I've asked him if he'll come on our show here. Uh, so yes, I expect we will have Brad on pod land in the next few weeks. Uh, what I couldn't understand. And maybe, you know, and then maybe we'll ask Brad in a few weeks time, or what are they doing? I mean, I, I don't use serious.
Uh, I'm not based in the U S uh, I have used Pandora in the past. I don't use Stitcher, but it's obviously very good. And it's got ads with. What are they trying to become? What is this new entity that Brad's heading up? Well,
I think this is a really interesting look at how consolidation is going on, uh, in the U S so you've got some companies, for example, iHeart who own a bunch of podcast producers. They also have. Their own radio stations. Of course they own Triton digital, they own, uh, RCS, uh, they own, you know, all kinds of weird and wonderful people, but they are all separate companies. So they're not, you know, you don't necessarily see Triton working, uh, massively hard with other bits of the iHeart radio.
Worlds. That's not typically how these sorts of things work, but what Sirius XM has been doing is very much taking the acquisitions that they've made over the last two or three years, and now really pulling those together very, very strongly. So all of a sudden, Sirius XM from a point of view of ad sales has pooled all of their eyed salespeople from Stitcher and Midroll, and also from Pandora who have a big local Salesforce and for the Sirius XM satellite radio stations as well.
All of those are now together as one they're called S X M media, which is very difficult to save very fast. And then you also have. In terms of the content side, you're seeing Brad Smith now who is responsible for podcast strategy across all of those platforms across Sirius XM, Pandora, Stitcher, and AdsWizz both for strategy for creators and also for listeners as well. Um, so really good to end up seeing that happening. Sirius XM just posted their numbers.
And I believe that they had $8 billion worth of revenue. It's some ridiculous high figure. So Sirius XM is doing very, very well. Although, you know, those satellites aren't going to fly themselves, but I think, you know, um, uh, if you own lots of different companies in the same kind of area, making sure that they all work together makes an awful lot of sense.
I look forward to you hearing from prod as well. I think that M and a thing we're going to see a lot more of a guest in 2020. In the UK, there must be something in the water I've decided because Jerry Edwards started a podcast radio station. It was his brain child along with Paul Chandler, a 35 year veteran of the radio industry. And they've done really well. Actually, I think you're featured on, on there.
Yes. You can listen to pod news updates every single day, um, on podcast radio, which you can pick up in most large bits of the UK. Of course we had Jerry Edwards on this very podcast way, way back at the beginning. Uh, and, uh, he seems to be going very, very well. My understanding is that he's talking about international expansion for the podcast radio brand as well. So that would be interesting to see how that. You've ended up doing something exciting as well.
In terms of podcast, first radio station, I saw this beautiful press release from wash cur, uh, talking about, uh, all of the clever things that you're doing. You've got 20 subject focused hour long shows, which you turn into podcasts and you're doing all kinds of things with your, your radio station. You,
yeah. We started to look at what was radio. Now. You, you've got a great radio newsletter and podcasts as well, and you've got, you're a veteran of the industry. So, you know, I'm sure you're going to tell me I'm not makes me feel old. Um, I'm sure you're going to tell me I'm smoking crack in a minute, but, um, Jerry, Jerry did inspire me with what he was doing with podcast radio. And I sat down with my fellow directors and said, look, I just don't believe music is the future of radio.
I think, uh, kids certainly that are in my household and many of their friends who Spotify or Amazon or iTunes to listen to music or YouTube, then, you know, even more so ticked off. And I don't think radio is the way with music, but I do think talk radio and that speech based radio is the way going forward. Now what we did was we decided to create one hour only long shows.
Now most radio stations create two, three hour long radio programs, which aren't very podcast, double a and a short Joe Rogan. Of course. So we've created 21 hour shows. We're going to extend that to 30, possibly more. And what we do is we use. To help us take our live stream and directly out that to apple, Spotify, Google, and other platforms. And it works brilliantly. I don't have to touch it. It's one of, you know, listening to you last week.
How do you make save time where you automate everything? Well, for me, automating creating those podcasts was the best thing I did with washer, because it means that I don't have to touch it once I've set it up, it automatically create some publishes out and we've got the river radio channel on apple. Um, and they're all. Spotify and yeah, he's working the next stage for us is we've got sponsors rather than ads. We're not going to be doing advertising to break up the content.
Um, and we'll see how it goes. That's our plan anyway. Yeah,
no, I think that makes a bunch of sense. I think all of the data that I've seen over the last year or so has shown that talk radio is on the ascendant talk radio is, is increasing and that's, um, radio with talk rather than the format of talk radio and music radio doesn't necessarily seem to be increasing particularly much. So, you know, and there was a point, uh, this time last year where I was having a look at the radio data and, um, you know, Brisbane, relatively unaffected by.
Pandemic, um, you, you was, uh, you, you know, it was interesting looking at their data and then looking at Melbourne's data, which has been in lockdown and was in lockdown, uh, back during that particular radio survey and what you could see in Melbourne, particularly. Was just a tremendous growth in the amount of listening to speech radio to talk radio, whether it was the local ABC station, whether it was, um, uh, three a w or whatever it might have been.
Um, but you also saw a lot of music, radio stations going down as people, you know, were just tuning in for human beings for a shared experience in a human connection. So, um, yeah, I think that, that, that's absolutely the right thing to go. And I think, uh, you know, more radio stations, which aren't just a jukebox, uh, that I can't control and instead have human beings on. There is always a good plan.
I'll let you know in 12 months time, if I'm still alive and kicking now time now James four books to Graham corner. Now it's time for the
boost boost boost boost
boost to gram corner.
It's too much. Yes. We've received booster grams this week. So thank you for those Dave Jones, uh, sent through 21,000 SATs on castomatic and, uh, you remember we called him the pod bro, uh, this time last week. And he says, uh, he, he sent through a mega boost to Graham from the pod pro, although a Kyron has other ideas, hasn't he? Yes, he
does. I personally feel. Pod Sage fits Dave better. He's too wise and calm to be a broke pod,
Sage things. Current Dave Jones, the pods Sage. That sounds like a wise plan. Dave Jackson also says thank you for the mention. We'd love to come on the show. 500 SATs sent through fountain. Hooray. Thank you very much, Dave. We'd love to have you. I should. We get onto sending that email. Dave Jones again sent another mega booster Graham talking about being very excited that he was number nine in the pod news ranker. Uh, so that's a lovely thing.
Uh, again, using castomatic and we had one from Dave Jones, his, um, friend at the other end, uh, the pod father himself. Yes.
He says podcast into the oh, episode 52, shout out. Yes. And he sent us 1089 stats. Thanks.
Yes. I wonder what 10 89 cents. Is that, is that a reference to radio one? Do you think? 10 89, 10 53. Yes. There's some numerology going on there. Um, but, uh, thank you, Adam. And thank you for using pod friend, uh, for that. Um, I did say that we would say how much SATs we've earned so far. So I just went to have a look and we haven't 476,000 SATs so far in case you're wondering how much that's worth that is worth 230. Dollars.
So that's how much so far we have earned from booster grams and from, uh, the listening to our show using, uh, sets per minute, uh, that is a, a nice amount. And given that it's still really, really early days, uh, thought it might be useful to know how much money, uh, that we have learnt so far rather how much crypto we've learnt. So far 476,028 sets. Of course it will be more by the time this actually goes out. So, um, thank you.
If you have given us some, uh, SATs and, uh, I end up sharing a half of those or we'll end up sharing half of those with Mr. Sethi, my friend at the other end. Uh, so that'd be a good thing. Well, I'm going to do
so Nathan, back to you for the repatriate James to Britain fund, To get you over here.
Well, uh, that's all dependent on the Australian government, uh, but I trust them. I'm sure that they know what they're doing. Um, so what do you do with Satoshis? Uh, once you've actually earned them, if you have, um, made your podcast to value for value enabled, what can you actually do with that? Uh, Sam, uh,
stick them up on your wall. Uh, Decorate them hand them out for pizza and then find out they're worth 500 million later. None of that. No. Okay. What'd you do Joe. And there's a
really nice tool that I discovered, um, which is called moon. Uh, I'll tell you what the URL is. Pay with moon.com. It's a way for you to transfer Sam. Into a single use visa card. So say you are on a website and they want to charge you. I don't know, $6 99 for some, um, you know, cable that you want and you, and you want to go, oh, well actually I'd rather pay for that $6 99 with, uh, my cryptocurrency. So what this pay with moon.com thing lets you do is it lets you transfer just $6 99.
Of cryptocurrency onto something that looks like a visa card so that you can just pay, you know, Amazon or Walmart or whatever it is that you want to pay, which is a really smart idea. There are other ways of doing that. There's a website called bit refill, which works, um, in quite a lot of countries. What bit refill allows you to do is, um, is, uh, take a Bitcoin or PSATs and turn those into gift cards. And those are fine.
And you can turn, you know, something into a gift card for $20, but you're never buying stuff, which is exactly $20. Are you? Um, which is why I thought that this. The thing was quite a neat idea. Um, that moon thing for the moment is U S only. And it does require some form of weird Chrome extension on your browser, but, uh, still, uh, may be worth a look. If you're wondering how to spend some of those SATs that you have pay with moon.com. Are there any other
alternatives? I mean, us only, is there another way you can do it? I
mean, apart from bit refill, I mean, obviously, you know that you, you can, uh, transfer them into something like, you know, Coinbase or, or another one where you can then, you know, just, um, transfer it out into fit into your. Um, currency. Um, so you can do that typically that doesn't necessarily work too well. Um, because you have to pay quite a lot to get your Bitcoins out. You have to pay $20 or so to send your Bitcoins over.
Whereas, um, what moon, the way that moon is working is that it is using the roughly 3% credit card fees that it gets to keep it, um, fee-free for you as a user. So you're not actually paying anything to transfer your SATs into, into a visa card. It turns out that the retailer is paying their normal credit card charge instead, which a moon obviously keeps a fair amount of. So, um, yes. Just a little bit of a different way of
doing it. I suppose you could always take them to El Salvador, James. Now that the Bitcoins, the official currency
of the country. Yes, indeed. Uh, maybe you could, maybe you could take them to El Salvador. Uh, their president, uh, naive book Hailey says that it will help Salvadorans save about $400 million, which has spent on commissions and bank charges. Uh, so maybe, but it's not necessarily working as well as, uh, as it might be, but, uh, yeah. Interesting to see what, uh, El Salvador are doing. Um, wouldn't necessarily copy them quite yet, but who
knows there are rumors, is that a America or start a stable coin called the. As their currency anyway, what's wrong with a dollar that's for another
podcast. Anyway, there are more, there are more tools supporting value for value.
Just cast now supports value for value and soundbites, which we were talking about earlier. So well done there. Have you used just cost at all, James?
Um, I haven't, they're a good looking podcast hosting solution. The clever thing with them is that they use things like Dropbox to host your audio. So you're not actually buying audio space from, uh, just cars directly or using something that you already have, which might be a free Dropbox account. So that's quite a neat plan. I think
now I caught up, uh, earlier this week with Alex Jakoby, uh, to talk about a new data standard he's proposing for. Data analytics to move your data from one host to the other. And I started off by asking him where he is in the world and what's he proposed, you'll find me in Germany.
And I'm an audio entrepreneur from Germany. I'm running four companies, which are all more or less audio centric since my whole life in audio production. And two things I'm very passionate about is podcasting. So I'm running service that helps newspapers record that podcast and publish that podcast from like hosting and then recording infrastructure. And I'm involved in a very interesting project that tries to bring the fragmented broadcast structure and Germany together.
To find one way to measure podcast plays in a way that we can build a currency for advertisers, because we see the problem that even if you use IED compliant reporting, you can have results with a lot Feis that differ by 15%. And this is something advertisers do not access. And we're involved with the gathering. It's called the AGMA, the Abbott's the mineshaft mat and a loser. So it's a gathering of all the public broadcast stations and all the private broadcasters in Germany.
And they are building a standard together to build a trusted way of measuring a podcast.
Wow. Okay. So apart from just doing your day job and doing that job, you also involved in a new project as well, which is involving around a standard that you're proposing, as you can tell us about what that is. Absolutely.
So what we are proposing is an open analytics standard for podcasts and podcasts. So we learned from our work in the standardization, that there is a huge pain for podcasters who want to move from one poster to another host because they usually lose their analytics. And even before. On the business side and owner of a podcast hosting service.
I do think it's very important that we do not hold hostage of the data of our clients and that we make podcasts analytics data, which belongs to the clients as portable as you can, for example, in Germany, port your cell phone number from one provider to another.
So what we are proposing is that all the hosts has come together and build an open standard, which is nothing technically complicated that allows publishers to get their data back, to take ownership of their data and to make it portable from one house to another. Because what we think is that if publishers have the freedom to choose a host that really fits their needs, and there are so many amazing companies out there that have a very different idea of how podcast hosting could work.
I do think our whole. Could really win and really get the next boost. We need to professionalize what we love.
Yeah. Data portability is part of what Europe did with the GDPR as a requirement. So is it basically your premise that people can have their data, but they get it in so many different ways, but it doesn't make it transferrable. And that means that if you move from one host to the next, suddenly that data, or you own it and have it, can't be uploaded and utilize, is that
exactly? That's the problem. There are two ideas. So for the German measurement, we really rely on Ross server log files, which is something that is pretty hard to make portable because it's a pretty complex thing. So what we're thinking of is there are some houses that allow you to export your. It via a CSV file for example.
And what we're thinking about is that we host us just come together and find an agreement about how we structure these X. And probably if we enable our clients to import that back. And if we put this on an open source basis, it could be something where the whole community probably brings podcast analytics to new level, because we're stuck at lock file analysis, which is not very sufficient for advertisers.
The data we have is not the data we would love to have and having all the power and all the holes. Doesn't all the people working decentral together. On an source project seems like a huge chance for the whole industry to me.
So where have you got to so far, then this, is there an actual proposal on the table? Is there a document that people can read? Is there a website people can go to, where are we so far with this then? We're
actually very early in the process. We're in the process that. The proposed our idea for the first time in public, I used a blog I'm writing for where we're at the column and we are very early in the process. So there is no finished paper, but I do think this has to be a collaborative process. I would be more than happy to connect with likewise technology providers, podcast, lovers around the world. And I do think this has to be built collaboratively.
I don't think building an open source project starts very good with me building a 10 page white paper. It should be a collaborative process where everyone's on the table can have their impact. So it's very early in the process. And I do think we definitely need whether it be a LinkedIn group or whatever, but I don't care about the way how we collaborate as long as we
do collaborate. Okay. So let's assume that people want to get involved. I'm sure there'll be lots of people. What's the first step. Can they go to a website and register their interest or look at some of the proposals? Is there a forum where people can get involved or do they just contact you directly? And is that the starting point? So what we're going to do is
we're going to open up a LinkedIn and I will probably provide you the link later on there. And I do think this is a very good idea to start and to start discussing our ideas later on, we must have a website for sure. And I do think we definitely have to go start in working collaborative, beat on GitHub or a, my robot or whatever. So what I'm going to provide a system is the LinkedIn group. And I'm super happy for everyone joining there and bringing their ideas into the discussion.
Probably you could include them in your show notes and yeah, we could all come together around the world.
Yeah, we certainly will include them in the show notes. What are the type of data points that we want to tell? Out of data from one host to the other, are there some standards that are across the board given obviously declines that are coming countries that are being accessed at lists? We even started creating the list of the data points that we want to capture.
It's a super interesting question. And the deeper you dig into it, the more complex it gets. So it starts with very simple for sure. I want to have my place. The, the interesting thing is that we have to bridge a lot of different interests there. So for example, in Europe, with GDPR, you usually have to anonymize IP addresses. So probably geo data is not as accurate as you have it in the states or in other jurisdictions. For example, getting that done.
We'll be one of the major things we have to do in this open source group. We probably can all agree that having that standard that shows me it's that podcast. It has this many, probably IB compliant place on that day will be the most basic thing we can talk about. It's probably also 80% of the answers people haven't podcasts. If we dig deeper and say, let's say device data, like what's an iPhone.
W was it on the website is something where a lot of podcasts hosts have a very similar idea of reporting it. And I could think of a pretty simple way to find an agreement, how to do it. It gets complicated. If there are several hosts who have a reason to handle it differently and probably have a very good reason from their point of view to handle it differently. And you have to find an agreement. I do think. It's something we really have to get done together.
So the place about the episode, about the time, I don't think that's negotiated everything else has to be thought of how can we do it? How will we handle the non-acute Regio data in Europe versus the more accurate geo data in the states, will we handle devices? And will it be just like an open file of a billion devices on the planet? Or are we starting to aggregate? But this is when stuff really gets complex.
And I do think the whole collective has to solve it and not one person like me come up here in a podcast and tell the world how to do it. So I'm more about to learn how we can find a common ground then to tell the world what I think should be
done. I think that I've seen done that obviously is Adam Curry and Dave Jones with. Podcasts namespace to Datto, but I love how they broke down the problem into four or five chunkable steps. So he said, look, this is step one. We're going to just do these three or four things. Then step two. And they created it. Chat group and invited people into that.
And then they created a get hub so that it was all open source that anyone could then take the data and apply themselves to it and watch make recommendations. So I think that's, that's probably one of my best examples I've seen of how that's been done recently. The other one was the podcast taxonomy, which is around jobs and standardization of jobs. I think that's been a great example of as well. So look, this is a brilliant initiative, Alex.
I'm also thinking that there, there is a sort of standard which will be one Datto, which is the transportability standard, which allows you to export and import between different hosts. But I can also imagine then you can extend that to a version two Dato, which is what are the extra, I guess, Data points that we want to capture that are not currently being captured. That might be the things we want to Alex.
Thank you so much now, just before you go, can you tell everyone where they might be able to get hold of you? So we can also add it to the show notes as
well? Yes. Best way to get hold of me is you can find me on LinkedIn. My name is Alex Jacoby, J a C O B I N. I'd be super happy to hear from you. I will post the forum and I really liked the idea with the discord. Probably we might even set up a discord later, too, to have more. Detailed discussions about the whole topic. Yeah. So find me on LinkedIn and I'll be super happy to connect with everyone. And some, thank you so much for the chance to talk about our ideas in your podcast.
I really appreciate that. Thank
you very much, Alex Jacobi talking about, um, sharing, uh, podcast, uh, analytics data and that sort of thing. There's been other attempts to do that in the past, but I think certainly anything that keeps podcast data a little bit more open and a little bit more, less likely to be tampered with is always a good plan. So, um, I wish him all
the best. Yeah. We'll have in the show notes are linked to the discussion forum that he's going to start around it. So if you're interested in that space, please join him. Sounds good. Now let's list a few events that are going on the first event. It sounds like, uh, is the NAB James?
Yes. The first event isn't going on. Uh, it's the NAB show, the great big conference thing that takes place every year in Las Vegas. Um, it normally takes place earlier on in the year. They shifted it to October. mid-October uh, I think it starts on October the ninth, actually. So depending on what you call mid, but they've literally canceled it just to do. For a second year, a number of major exhibitors pulled out. Uh, it was to have a podcasting section.
I know that I think Libsyn, we're going to be there and blueberry we're going to be there. And, uh, you know, a great shame to see them. I have to say, you know, if you are canceling a big event, such as that with 90,000 people going to it, Within three weeks as they've done here, you know, that takes quite some courage. So, um, you know, I feel for the folks at the NAB show that,
well, I'm sure they'll come back strong in 20, 22 let's hope. Okay. So the next event that's on the calendar is a radio days, Europe, which is going to take place in Lisbon, in Portugal, on October the ninth to the 11th. I've
been to that one. I have been to every single radio days, Europe, apart from this one coming up. So I'm very annoyed that I can't be there. One of the people who will be there is podcasting's friend, Tom Webster from Edison research. Uh, he is, uh, one of the speakers there. I think that should be really good. You can buy virtual tickets or you can be there in person if you like. And Portugal has beaten Malta and somewhere else.
Uh, exciting, uh, to be the country in the world with the most vaccinated people in there. So, um, if you want to a wonderfully safe place to go, then, uh, Lisbon in Portugal is probably that place. Although obviously you've got to get there on a plane, but, uh, yeah, so that should be good. And, um, if you're not going there. Then, uh, you could maybe go to Scottsdale in Arizona.
Yes. Friends there. They're going to be running sheep podcasts live in-person uh, and yeah, tickets are available from the website and I'll put the link
in this indeed. And then you have a pod Fest origins, which is the next pod Fest event. What they're doing is they have an in-person event, which is going to be in Tampa, in Florida, uh, in early November. And at the end of October, they have a virtual event, October 28th to no. Third, um, which is quite a nice way of doing it. So basically they're splitting it, uh, to have one virtual event and then one in-person event.
And, um, I've been to a pod Fest in Florida a couple of years ago, and, uh, it was a very nice, very enjoyable experience. So looking forward to, you know, hopefully making one of those again, but certainly best of luck if you're going to that in Tampa, in Florida.
Lastly, the Australian podcasts awards have announced new partners and they're judging lineup. Anyone, you know, on each,
uh, anybody I know on it, I know one of the judges that's me. Do I know what I'm judging yet? No. And even if I did, I wouldn't be able to tell you I'd have to kill you, but yes, looking forward to judging that they've also signed a number of gold partners and things as well. A gold partner, which is listener the listener app. Um, the sponsor of the public vote, uh, category is listener as well. And a cast is the title sponsor.
Um, so, um, you know, uh, lots of other people, um, supporting the Australian podcast awards, including Spotify, iHeart podcast, network Australia, the Nova entertainment, podcasts net. Pod follow and pod news. Uh, so, uh, all of those fine, fine people, um, are sponsoring that, but it's a great event looking forward to taking part in that there's going to be another unknowingly virtual podcast, um, awards, ceremony, uh, happening for that, um, probably in November. Um, but it's a great awards.
I think it's been going for, I think this is its fifth year. I think that might be right. And if you are an Aussie listening to this, then good day, you've got until the 20th of September at mid day Sydney time, uh, to enter. So make sure that you do that or indeed at midday, Melbourne time, uh, be there or, or don't
basically now all the other podcasts that we've been listening to. Um, I just wanted to highlight one. Um, I, I love listening back to some old podcasts as well, and I listened to pod cast episode 58. I don't normally, uh, find something. Content, you know, when it, because it's very good, but it's all about some of the newbie stuff, but I did really enjoy listening to episode 58 with Fatima's IED. Who's the CEO of quilt podcasting.
Uh, she was talking about all the different ways they go about, uh, producing podcasts, promoting podcasts. She had a great way of how you can actually get your podcasts listed very high, very quickly on apple. I won't spoil it. You have to listen to the show. So yeah, just going to recommend, if you have time, Squitch back to episode 58 of Buzzcocks and check out, um, Fadiman's eight, which
is the excellent podcast from Buzzsprout one of our sponsors. So thank you to them for that. Um, I'm not going to talk about a podcast, but I will talk about a new discord community, which. Discovered it's called advancing podcasting. It's something that Evo Tara has been doing. And, um, I think you're absolutely right.
That there's a lots and lots and lots of stuff out there for the newbie podcaster, but, uh, what Evo does with podcast pontifications and now with this new advancing podcasting discord group is, um, really aimed at people that know what they're doing, but just want to get better at it. Uh, and I've really enjoyed the discussions, um, in that particular area. So it's, it's well worth having a play with, um, you'll find links to that on the podcast pontifications website, James Wells
has been happening for you in Portland this week.
So last week I ended up on Friday. I ended up sitting by the banks of the Brisbane river, uh, in a beautiful sort of 27 degree. Um, talking to Kayron, uh, for over two hours, uh, for his mere mortals podcast. Uh, it's a great podcast. That'll be coming out in a couple of weeks time, I believe. So I'm worth keeping an eye out for that, but very much enjoy doing that and very much enjoyed actually being out and seeing people. Uh, so that was, um, so that was a good thing.
Uh, what what's happening for you? Uh, over the next few weeks then? Uh, hopefully
Flay launching a few more podcasts, uh, on, on my radio station and, uh, announcing a fairly big sponsor for the old spice boys.
Very good. It's not as Crispus as it. It's the other one. It's the other one. That's all you get, whatever the exclusive, yes, whatever that means. And that's it for this week.
Thank you to our guests, Oscar Mary, from fountain and Alex Jakoby from Sona bay.
You can come back to Podland next week. We'll have special guests, Richard Kramer. Who's an analyst from RNA research. Please
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