If you've listened to this podcast before, you might know that my first corporate job was in the magical, glamorous and awe inspiring world of search engine optimization. That's right, SEO. I was worried about rankings before. Worrying about rankings was cool. And let me tell you, in 2013 it was so much easier than it is today. But not to worry my friend, I have spent the past decade clawing my way up the charts on Google, across social media, Apple, podcasts
and Spotify, and I am here to tell the tale. In this episode, we'll be talking about what rankings are, how they impact your podcast growth, how to strategize for your own show, and, of course, how to actually start showing up on the charts and ranking to find the audience you want to listen to your podcast. Hello and welcome to podcast for profit. My name is Morgan Franklin. I'm a Podcast Producer, strategist and
educator. This podcast will help you create and grow a podcast that cuts through the noise of social media and speaks directly to your target audience. If you're ready to create a podcast that will align you with the experts in your industry, position yourself as a trusted leader and create another source of revenue for your business, you're in the right place. So what is a podcast chart? Let's start there, and this might be old news to you, but let's buckle in for everybody else.
Apple podcast creator says our podcast charts reflect the most popular shows and episodes available in a given market, and are designed to help people discover what to listen to next. Okay, great. We love a vague explanation. Basically, the chart is exactly as you'd think of any other chart. So let's say Billboard top 100 we're all pretty familiar with that. Those are the top 100 songs played or streamed in any given period of
time. So a podcast chart is exactly like that, but as you're gonna see throughout this episode, not as straightforward when we're talking about podcast rankings, that can mean so many different things, and I think that's part of what makes it so confusing for podcasters, because when I say ranking, that can mean ranking in a category, it can mean ranking all shows
ever. It can mean ranking for a specific platform, like, let's say Apple podcasts or Spotify. It can mean ranking globally using all different points of data from all different hosts
and platforms. It can mean so many different things. So when you're trying to figure out what your own podcast rankings are, or the goals that you want to achieve around your rankings, it's important for you to know what podcast ranking that you're actually looking at, and so for this reason, I'm going to be specifically pointing out each part of this episode, what we're talking about and how it actually works. Let's start with Apple podcasts and Spotify charts and how to rank on these
platforms. The first thing is going all the way back, way, way back when you set up your RSS feed and started this podcast that you have, what did you put as the categories for your podcast? And does that actually reflect what your podcast is about? This always has to be step one, and it's very important, no matter what, you need to do some serious reflection on your podcast and what kind of content that you are making, and did you pick the best categories that will speak
to the content you're putting out on your podcast? Here are two of the biggest problems. First, you're like me, and your podcast doesn't really have a category. So for example, this podcast that you're listening to right now about podcasting? Yes, we know that, but that's not a category. There is no category about podcasting or content creation or anything like that. So I had to put it under marketing and business. And even
though it does encompass those things, right? It's really just the best that I can do, and that most of us are going to have to figure that out along the way. What is the second best option that I have for my category, since my category doesn't exist? The second problem is, you're thinking, Morgan, my podcast is about everything. How could I possibly pick a category. So for me, this is one of the biggest problems across the board that podcasters face. If you can't even narrow down what your
podcast is, how can you put it into a general category? How will you ever be able to find your target audience with that strategy? So if you're thinking either of these two things, I have one on one coaching where you can work with me that can help you figure this out. This is exactly the kind of thing that I work with podcasters on every day, my information will
be in the episode description. Okay, so after you pick the most relevant category to your podcast and the content that you're putting out with your podcast, this is when the real work is going. To happen because rankings are determined by a few different things, one of the most prominent being listener engagement. Now what's listener engagement? It's someone that is coming to your podcast, maybe for the first time, listening to
80% of an episode, subscribing, leaving a review. When people are consistently interacting with your podcast, it is telling the algorithm. This is a good podcast, this is a relevant podcast. That's how they're determining the ranking of the category that you picked. Now Apple podcasts and Spotify are never going to tell you what the secret sauce is and how you can
rank number one. That's how they get people to buy ads and spend money and keep working on their podcast forever, but I will tell you the two biggest factors playing into these rankings are new subscribers or followers, however you want to define that, and five star rankings. And I know that there's a lot more that goes into it than that, but that will make a huge impact on where you're ranking currently and where you show up on the
chart. But that's not all. I mean, don't you wish that it was that easy, that you could just keep getting an influx of new followers, and you would always be ranking and I mean, that is part of it, but here's where SEO manager Morgan is coming in to talk about keywords. So what are keywords? Keywords are words and phrases that your future listener will type into a platform search to find your show or episode. So stay with me. So let's say, for example, this podcast that you're
listening to right now, podcast for profit. Someone might be searching for how to start a podcast, or generally something about podcasting, or how do I rank on Apple podcasts, and if my episode shows up first and they click on it and listen to it and then maybe hopefully subscribe and rank it five stars, that is perfect. That's amazing. That's what the ranking
algorithm wants to see. So how do we make sure that this happens for you, and that when your future listener is searching for the words that you were trying to rank for the you are showing up. Personally, I think that you should focus on these three things. First, the episode title. If the episode title isn't hooking people in, you are never gonna get past that. You need relevant keyword, rich, interesting titles. That last part, interesting titles, don't just ask chat GPT to do
this. I hear so many podcasting gurus telling their clients to just, oh, just chat GPT. Tell it to SEO Optima, no, do not do that. I always tell my clients, if there is one thing we are not going to do it is use chat GPT for our titles. And why is that? It's because you are telling your future listener that you can't even be bothered to write a five to 10 word title without AI. And how are you expecting them to trust you with their most valuable resource of all, their time, their time to listen
to this podcast. So take a little bit of effort and think about what interesting titles would actually bring someone in to listen to your podcast, and what they would actually be searching for. Put effort into your titles. Work backwards from your titles, if you have to. So basically, if you need to write all your titles and then record the episodes after that. That is
totally okay. That's what I do every month. So I'll work through what my four episodes of the month are gonna be based on what people are asking me, what's trending, what keywords are ranking, and then from there, I record the episode based on the research of the titles. Good content takes time and effort, I think, in the era of short form media, that that can be lost on a lot of creators, but it really does
matter, and your audience can tell the difference. The next thing is just focusing on your general search engine optimization that is going to be making sure that your episode descriptions and transcriptions are aligned with this episode, and again, what that person that you want to listen to your
podcast might be searching for. I see so many podcasters just leaving everything on the table by not doing their episode description correctly, and I personally think that this is where you can use AI and chat GPT and any AI assistant like that. I mean, think about how many people are really going to read an episode description, other than just to find a link
or something like that. Not very many. I'd be doing everything possible to get those keywords in there and make sure that when someone is searching for something, either my podcast is ranking first and popping up, or it is that specific episode that is ranking first. So why do podcast rankings really matter? I should have probably started the episode with this, but I think it's important to talk about why we're doing all of this in the first place, and why it matters if your podcast is
ranking on the charts the. First of all, it makes it much more likely that new listeners will find you. So anyone that's looking for a new podcast to listen to at any given genre, this gives them the opportunity to find you, if they're just scrolling through the charts again, like we talked about a minute ago, when someone is searching for something specific you want to be that podcast episode or podcast that pops up
and is being the most compelling to the listener. New listeners for podcasts usually come to us one of two ways, and that's either a personal recommendation or from searching natively. So that means in Spotify or Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, looking for something to listen to, looking
for something specific. So if you are ignoring the rankings and thinking, Oh, that's just vanity, that's just a vanity accomplishment, you're not putting into perspective how much showing up on these platforms actually matters to finding new listeners. I mean, that's half of the listeners that you would be getting. There is one vanity ranking that I want you to know for your own information and being able to keep track of the progress that your podcast is having. So
that's your global rank for all podcasts. You can find this on Listen notes.com I'll have that in the episode description. You'll go to that website and just search for your podcast. It should give you a listener score out of 100 and your global ranking. So that'll be a percentage if you don't yet have a ranking, is because you are not yet in the top 10% of podcasts globally. So I'd start by making that my first goal. If you don't see your global ranking or what your listener
score is, start there. Start by saying, Okay, I want to be in the top 10% of podcasts, so I can keep track of this, and so I can work towards getting in the top 1% or the top point 5% whatever that might look like for your goals in your podcast. But make sure that you are keeping track of that, so you can see how many people are listening to your podcast in comparison to everyone else. Like I said earlier, I'll leave the websites where you can look at your different rankings in
the episode description. The second website that I want you to look at is called refonic. That is where you can look at your rankings for Apple podcasts and Spotify for the categories. So that is where you will just go to the website you will type in your podcast, and it will tell you all about where you are ranking in these different categories and across the globe. So you might, for example, be ranking in China, but not in
America. So go ahead and go and check that out. And there are several different podcast platforms like, I'm thinking of good pods specifically, where they have their own ranking system, and you can just go on there, make a profile and see
where you are ranking. I'd encourage you to do that and make some kind of note where you are tracking this information, especially if you ever plan to monetize your podcast, which I hope that you are planning to do, that you can have that information and say, Okay, I rank in the top 200 for business podcast on Apple podcast in the United States, I'm ranking in the top for the word podcasting. So let's talk about that really
fast. You need to go into an incognito browser and search these different terms that are associated with your podcast and see if your podcast is ranking for any of those words. And if they are, I probably do this once a month and just see where you are. I've not found a website that will give you these rankings or this information, so you'll need to do it for yourself. But have at least three keywords at any given time
that you are trying to rank for. Make sure that you're checking to see where are you, and then write that down and keep going until you are the number one person ranking for that word or phrase. If you've just launched a podcast, or you're about to launch a new podcast, make sure that you keep an eye on your rankings, because you're gonna have a big boost that first few days or weeks because you just launched this podcast, you're
getting all these new subscribers and ratings. So make sure to keep an eye on that and start making your notes from there. I remember when Kylie Kelsey launched her podcast, and everyone was in a total frenzy because she was ranking above Joe Rogan. And the whole time I was just thinking, well, this, this isn't really, I mean, this is not a good representation of how she will be ranking. And then I think it was like, less than two weeks later, she wasn't even the top 50 podcast at all.
It's because that huge influx of followers and listeners and ratings and listener engagement that then subsided and everything kind of leveled out, and then she was no longer that number one position. So make sure that you're keeping an eye and keeping perspective on what is happening with your podcast. Oh, and by the way, I meant to mention this up front, but do not pay for websites like listen note or refonic. Don't waste your money on stuff like this. Podcasting is expensive enough.
Just check in and make sure that you have a Google spreadsheet or something like that, where you are writing down the date you're writing down what your rankings are. And remember, this changes every day. It's very. Volatile. One day you are going to be ranking 10th in your category, and the next day you're not going to be ranking at all. So take it one day at a time, keep measuring where you are and make your goals from there. Remember,
knowledge is power. If you need help creating a strategy for how your podcast will rank on the charts, I would love to help you out the information for my one on one coaching is in the episode description. If you have a question, please feel free to send me a message. My email is Morgan at Morgan Franklin dot media that will also be in the episode description. I'd love to help you. If I can, please subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already, and as always, I can't wait to listen to your
podcast. Hey, thank you so much for joining me on this episode. If you enjoyed the podcast and you'd like to hear more episodes like this one, go ahead and subscribe to the show. New episodes air every Monday morning. And if you found this episode valuable and you want to help other business owners and podcasters, will you leave me a five star review. It helps the show rank higher in the charts and brings more entrepreneurs the information they need to start making money on their podcast.