Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective solutions for achieving a professional sound and appearance. I'm Matthew Passi, your host and a fifteen year veteran in the podcasting space. We'll help you cut through the noise and offer guidance on software and hardware that can elevate the quality of your show. Tune in weekly for insightful interviews with tech creators, behind the scenes studio tours, and
strategies for podcasting success. Head to podcastingtech.com to subscribe to this show on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform, and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full potential of your podcast. I would say we have a guest who needs no introduction, but we're gonna give him one anyway. We are chatting with the founder and creator of School of Podcasting, which began all the way back in 02/2005. He's also the head of podcasting at PodPage, formerly of
Libsyn. He's a good friend to most podcasters, including myself. He is the wonderful amazing Dave Jackson. Dave, thank you for joining us today. Matthew, it's always great to hang out with you. It's, always a good time, and, looking forward to this. I I usually ask everybody, how did you get into podcasting? But I have a feeling that story has been told six gajillion times by you on various podcasts, including the three gajillion that you have
started on your own. So instead, real quickly, I just wanna kinda, like, take me through, you know, not when you started to podcast, but really when you started to work in podcast and really become part of the industry and what that was like for you as someone who, you know, just kinda jumped into the space on a whim. Yeah. It's kind of weird in a way. I remember the very first, like, event. It was in, I believe, 02/2006 in Ontario, California, the metropot metropolis of
Ontario, California, which I never heard of. And we're in a Holiday Inn, and it was weird because all of a sudden you're like, oh, I'm not the only nerdy guy playing with this stuff. And so you start to make connections. Like, that's where I met Todd Cochran and a bunch of other people. And it wasn't until really when I got involved, like, the industry because I was doing the school of podcasting, and that's where it was fun. I I mean, I
met I had Rob Walsh on the show. I had Ty Cochran. I was kinda like Switzerland. I could work with all the different media hosts. And when I, lost my teaching job, I was like, well, I'd like to work in podcasting. And I was like, well, where would I work? And I'm like, well, Libsyn's the best. So let's let's go there and, called up Rob and had a quick conversation. And so that's that's kinda where it began just when I, originally, when I got laid off at my teaching job, I called my then
wife, and I said, hey. I think I'm gonna do the school of podcasting full time. And she went, yeah. No. You're not. And I went, what? And she's like, yeah. No. Sorry. Thanks. You know? And I'm like, but, honey, you're a nurse. You make tons of cash, and you have great health benefits. But, and so I that's kinda how I got into to Lipson, and it's just a matter of I'm curious. So I'm always, talking to people about new tools and different,
strategies that they're doing. And so I think it was just a matter of like, podcasting is the bubble that I live in, and so there are other people that are you know, there's a whole there's a whole true crime thing that I know it's huge, but there's, like, little mini celebrities in there. And then, you know, the every every little genre has their own little bubble. I remember when I went to, I think it was called VidCon in Seattle, and I'd never seen cosplay.
And if nobody tells you what cosplay is and you walk in and you're like, why does that guy have elf ears on? And it was Welcome to Night Vale. All these people were dressed like characters in Welcome to Night Vale. And then when I went into the big room, and it looks like a Metallica concert with two big giant screens, and the whole room is filled, and everybody was laughing at jokes that I had no idea what they were. They were all inside jokes. And if you listen to that podcast,
you got them. I was sitting there scratching my head while people are rolling out of their seats like it's showtime at the Apollo. And that's when I went, wow. This is a whole other bubble that I've known nothing about. So it's kind of interesting how you you get immersed into what you think is the industry, and instead, it's just a little small, you know, chunk of it. It it's so true.
Even going to events, podcast movement, pod fest, where you tend to see the same people, a lot of the same personalities, a lot of the same companies. And then you go to an event or you talk to somebody online, you bring up all these people like, oh, yeah. You're being a podcast. You know? So this, this, this, and, like, nope. And they've got a whole other world of people in podcasting who they think are the bee's knees, who they think are
the the leaders of the, you know, the influencers and whatnot. So it is interesting how large this world is and yet how small it can feel, for each of those different communities. I'm curious. Moving from teaching and podcasting on your own and school of podcasting to, you know, getting behind, an industry player and, you know, seeing not just how the sausage is made, but how everybody complains about how the sausage is
made. Was there anything that, like, jaded you on podcasting? Was there anything that happened that, you know, made you change the way you approach your content, your your stuff? The the the only thing that really just makes me go, oh, it's one of those, is the person that more or less now they don't say it blatantly, but they come up to me and they basically say, what's the topic I can talk about where I can do the least amount of work and
do and make the most amount of money, which I understand. Who wants to do a lot of work to make? But the person that's really looking for the shortcut and doesn't even care what the topic is. And I'm like, wait. So you have no passion about a topic. You're just gonna pick the one that makes the most money. And I'm just kinda that always makes me just kind of there's like a sad trombone going off in my head when that person asks the question.
You know, it's just, in terms of, you know, things ways people move, it the thing I like about podcasting is is there are no rules. There are definitely best practices. So when I have a guy right now that is working, I'm not gonna tell you the exact name, but he's basing a show on his last name. And he's going to interview other people with the same last name and talk about famous people with the same last name. And I and he asked me, do you think
this is gonna work? And I go, I gotta tell you. You get, like, a plus for originality because I've never heard anybody else do that. I go, now is this gonna work? I go, in theory, if somebody with that last name and they know their family, who I'm assuming have the same last name, I go, it could work. I go, but this is one of those recipes that, like, their only way to know if it's gonna work is to make it and then see what
happens. You know? It's like a I've never had chocolate with my peanut butter before. Let's let's try this, and it may work. It may not. So I love to see people being really creative, especially when you go, this could fall flat, and yet they do it anyway. Yeah. An idea like that, it sounds interesting. Right? Terrible on paper, but interesting. And with the right host and with the right commitment, it probably could turn into a
weird cultural phenomenon, right, that people are talking about. But, it's it's not a guarantee that just because you're niche or weird, it's gonna work. But, you know, those types of shows are the ones that tend to break through, the ones that break the mold that disrupt the space. And so, yeah, when somebody says, what should I podcast about? It's like, no. No. No. What am I passionate about? How do I
share it? Maybe a podcast is right for you. Yeah. I just saw Sean Evans who does hot ones on YouTube was on, Jimmy Kimmel. And I'm like, that's a pretty niche show. I'm gonna interview people while they're basically, you know, throwing themselves. Yeah. Torture themselves with Hot Wing. And then I'm gonna do I'm gonna be a really good interviewer and ask questions that require them to think. That's a pretty strange premise. It is. And yet how many and how how many
copycats have come up as a result? Right? Because it worked for one person. Yeah. So you you worked for Libsyn for a really long time. You've moved on over to PodPage, you know, a a great company. We had Brandon on the show, one of the first episodes. Always been a big supporter of PodPage. We use that for the show. But you guys are unveiling new features, including one that just came out at the time that we're chatting maybe about a week or so ago, surveys for your
audience. Tell us what that's about, how, you know, how it's supposed to work on PodPage, and and why this one, got introduced. Yeah. There are, you know, multiple ways you can kinda see, and that's the the point. I can kinda see how people like my stuff by going to, you know, podcastconnect.apple.com and looking at my completion rate. I can see some of that in Spotify. If you're on YouTube, you
can see that on YouTube. But, you know, the easiest way to figure out if your audience likes what you're putting out is to, I don't know, ask them. And so what we did is Tom Webster, hall of fame person, Tom Webster, right, inductee, has a great book called the audience is listening. And Tom's been measuring podcasting and before that radio for decades, and he had these really good instead of saying, is it too short or too long, ask a question like, if I were to remove something from the
podcast, what would it be? That's kinda asking if it's too long. There these little subtle ways of doing it. And so we reached out to Tom and said, wow. You have these really great questions. Can we use them to make a survey and pod page? To which Tom said, yeah. As long as you put a link to my book at the the top of the description of the cert not so much for the public, but for the podcaster. And we're, like, done. And then we added five questions in the event
that you wanna ask something that Tom doesn't. And it's been the people that are using it are getting this great data where one of the one of our customers was doing a daily show. And he said the number one thing I'm hearing from my audience is they don't need a daily show. They're kinda getting fed with a fire hose. He's giving them great topics to think about, and they're like, can I have a little more time to think about this topic
before you hit me with another one? And, like, I found out, I, I primarily hang out on Facebook and and Twitter, and I asked my audience and a considerably large amount of people hang out on LinkedIn. And I kinda play in LinkedIn, but I was like, well, guess what? That's where my audience is. Maybe I should go hang out there more. So the more you know about your audience, the better you can make your stuff. And so I always say if your podcast is, you know, a dinner party and
then you find out, oh, wait a minute. You know, Jill's coming over, and she's vegan. And, you know, Rob's coming over, and he's, you know, gluten intolerant or whatever. You're gonna have to change your your meal up a little bit. Or, you know, in some cases, you go, well, you know, gluten free people, sorry. You're just not my target audience. Depending on whatever it is, but the more you know about your audience
and especially what they want, the more you can give it to them. Then the more you give it to them, the more likely they are to tell somebody to go listen to your show. That the interesting you bring up that concept of the vegan and the gluten free, and you start to allude to, well, maybe you're just not my audience. I shouldn't cater to it. But it's so hard for new podcasters to be told to
limit your audience. Right? Everybody wants the biggest audience possible, but if they try to attract everyone, they're gonna attract no one. How do you how do you talk to clients or, you know, other podcasters and tell them fight that urge to cater to a larger audience and focus on just your target audience. Right? It's okay to reject outside ideas even if you're, you know, sitting in only a few downloads per episode. Yeah. Because part of that is based on, you know, we
want huge numbers. And if we limit our audience, well, that doesn't seem to make any sense. And, look, I'm guilty of this as well because and I always at the beginning of it, if I'm doing a show for an absolute beginner, I will say at the beginning of the show, this is for an absolute beginner because a lot of my audience has been podcasting. They're
like, hey. I wanna grow this. I don't wanna launch it. So I always do that, but there's a part of me that goes, you should split this off and just do a show about launching instead of occasionally giving people an episode that they may not want. But I always try to say that, you know, if you've already launched, you might wanna listen to this because I know a lot of people don't think about how am I gonna measure my success.
And so it it is kinda tough, but it's it's a matter of not it it's about getting the right people, not a ton of people. Because, I I mean, I was just a pod fest, and I'm in a room full of podcasters. And we all have the same ideas and that we're all trying to grow our audience, and we're sharing insights and things like that. And when you have that community and you don't have to worry about leaving somebody out because you're all on the same page, that's a magical thing. And you don't wanna
be just a good podcast. You wanna be someone's favorite. And I always use the analogy of, taking people out for pizza. I had an aunt in from out of town, so we had about a group of 12. And we went into this place, and my aunt and my niece are kitchen sink pizza. Right? Just whatever you got back there, throw it on there. We'll just anchovies, you know, whatever. And they were happiest pigs in mud because they got their favorite type of pizza. My brother looks at me and goes,
hey. What do you want? I go, I usually do pepperoni. He goes, can you do extra cheese? And I go, yeah. Okay. So I didn't get my absolute favorite pizza. It was good. It was great, but it wasn't like, oh, this is the best pizza ever. And so our goal is to be someone like, the minute this comes out, they're like, oh, man. There's another episode for Matthew. I gotta go play this. And if you kind of give them what they want, that's probably not the result you're gonna
get. And it's hard. This really is. It's it's tough to you know not every chapter gets highlighted. And so you you do your best, and it starts with knowing who your audience is, and you aim and you fire. And it's always funny. I'm I'm sure you've had this where you've worked on an episode forever. You put it out thinking it's the best thing, and it's gonna go viral or whatever, and it's just crickets. And then there are episodes I had one that I put out while I was
at Podfest. It was kinda like, yeah. This is on point. It's not my best stuff, but I but and I had I got home, and people are like, that was a great episode. And I'm like, really? So but it all starts with knowing, you know, who your audience is, and that's where, you know, it all starts. And it is. It's it's hard to talk people off the I want I want in a you know, it's how far are we into the seven minutes? I'm gonna say
the Rogan word. Right? When we hear Joe Rogan in this giant audience and I was just tell people, realize step one of that is be Joe Rogan. And and I I did this in my presentation. I said, how many people in the room are Joe Rogan? And, of course, nobody raised their hand. I'm like, good. So let's drop that strategy because we're just not gonna do it, but it is tough. And, it's also this is where you mentioned passion earlier.
If you do kind of put up a little bit of of guardrails to stay on topic, there are times after a year and a half where you're like, I can't talk about this anymore. And so you are allowed to expand out. I remember Lee still Lee Silverstein had a show called the colon cancer podcast. And after years, he finally rebranded the title, and it was we have cancer because when somebody in your family has cancer, everybody basically is going through that together. But it is tough to stay
on track. But if you if you have that focus, then you're gonna end up you know, it's it's we're we're going from a shotgun approach to trying to be everything to everyone to a rifle, which I I hate that it's such a violent example, but, you're you're more spot on. These were, Nerf rifles and Nerf rifles. So they're very, very gentle and and very, very safe. So going back to the survey, you know, podcasters are always told, you know, talk to your audience, ask them
what they want. Right? Check with them. And, you know, Podpace has has this feature. It's supposed to make it a little bit easier as my camera sits here and and plays all sorts of funny games than me. Sorry, audience. But sometimes people put that stuff out there and they get crickets. How do you how how would you advise someone to get their audience to respond, to engage, to interact with them? Because, otherwise, they're gonna feel even lonelier and frustrated and probably wanna give
up. Yeah. This is, if we go back to the old Rush song, if you choose not to decide, you've still made a choice. So if you're trying to get feedback and you don't get any, you've actually just got a ton of feedback. It's not very good feedback, but your audience is letting you know, I'm not really feeling connected to you. And so everybody likes to benefit. And so you kind of you know, if if I got zero responses, I might come back and
say, hey. You know, two weeks ago, I asked you to fill out a survey, and I've got a whole lot of nothing. And so I just wanna remind you that the reason I'm doing this survey is I'm doing this show for you. I mean, I love this topic, but I'm doing this show for you. And the more I know what you're looking for, the more I can go find that content and bring it to you. And then it won't just be me and you because I always talk to one person. It won't be just me and you sitting here talking
about this this, topic. We can have a whole community of people. My goal is to grow this and have a community, maybe a Facebook group or a heartbeat group where we can all talk about this, but it's gonna start with making sure that I know what you want. So I would really deeply appreciate it if you could just simply go to mywebsite.com, whatever that is, slash survey,
and fill this out. And, I'll be you know, if you wanna put your name in, I'll even give you a shout out, whatever it is, but everybody likes to benefit. And so it's like when people do this with emails, they'll be like, oh, just go sign up for my new you know, you can sign up for the newsletter. Okay. For for what? Because I didn't wake up today going, oh, I hope I can find a newsletter to sign up for. You know? Please fill my inbox with more stuff.
Yes. So you've gotta give something to them. And so, you know, there's not now the survey at PodPage, you can give them a, you know, PDF or something like that. You can give them a little incentive to do it. But if the incentive is, hey. This show is gonna be better based on your feedback. So it's just one of those things, but it is it's one of those things. It is soul crushing
when you put it out there, and there's just crickets. And you're like, well, that's my worst nightmare come to to live, and that's when you're just like, well, at least I know where I'm starting at, and I can only go up from here. I I love the way you frame that that and, you know, I always talked about this with my clients in the past. And and even today, when I talk to podcasters about their marketing efforts, it's not about what the audience can do for me. It's about what you can do for
the audience. What value are you providing them? And so the way you frame that, I think was great. And, you know, I think if if everybody approached all of their content creation in that same way with here's what I'm giving you if you happen to listen. Here's what I'm giving you if you subscribe. You'll definitely see better results in the long run if you're giving them something that they want. If you're giving them crap, I mean, right, nobody needs crap. And you're kinda coming up alongside
them. Instead of you being the leader, you're you're kinda coming alongside of them and go like, hey, guys. Let's let's go ahead and and come up with the best content. We're gonna grow this community together. I just happen to be the person behind the microphone. And so it's it's tricky, and, you know, this is where, you know, we mentioned the survey. This is one of the things I do at when I go
to an event like Podfest or Podcast Movement. A lot of me is just listening to seeing what people are talking about and what they're getting stuck on and things like that. And so that's where if you're not getting any engagement, you know, head out to a Facebook group or Reddit or wherever you're going, and you can actually see what people are stuck on. And, you know, that's really kind of the bottom line of what people want is, you know, I
have a problem. How can I solve it? Or it's you know, you might be talking I I I see, not a lot, but there are podcasts about rare diseases. And those people, you know, you're not gonna get a ton. You're not gonna get thousands and thousands depending, I guess, on the disease. But when somebody else I know there's one. It's something something spondylitis, and the group themselves call it spondy. It's like a nickname. And the fact when they and it's a horrible disease. You're in pain all the
time. And so Jason Sacco does a a show on spondylosis, whatever the beginning of that is. And he was talking about how just having somebody else that's going through the same crap you are is a huge benefit because you don't feel alone. And so when you can go out and see what people are talking about and then talk about it on the show, you know, that's one of those on paper, this should
resonate. Yeah. I've I I remember when I was hosting call spots, talking to a lot of people who were doing shows about very rare diseases or, you know, very niche causes. And more than being informational, it was community. It was, right, just having somebody else who
understands what you're going through talking about it. And, you know, 20 or 30 listeners doesn't sound like a lot to most of us, but in a group like this, you know, rare disease group where they are all fighting the same thing, the 20 or 30 of them able to get together, pool their resources, you know, write to different agencies and whatnot to get more funding or go out. Like, it made
a difference. And that was all possible because, you know, one person who was going through this decided to open up the microphone and and share some some value with people. You know, we we can talk to Dave Jackson for probably days in a row, probably some amazing World Guinness marathon on podcasting. But if you've heard him before, he's not quite that 100% that we love to get from him, so
we're not gonna keep him for too long. But, as a reminder, it's Dave Jackson from the Famous School Podcasting, head of podcasting at PodPage, which we encourage you to check out both of those properties. Before we let you go, Dave, there are questions we like to ask everybody. First one is if there's something in podcasting that you would like to see improved, what would it be? And that can be, you know, production, distribution, consumption.
Right? Like, doesn't have to be from the creating a podcast. Just something that you're like, god. I wish we did this better. Well, I'm I've been someone involved at least paying attention to the podcasting two point o space, And that was not that it doesn't have momentum now, but I I feel, in my opinion, that we lost a little bit because there was this whole streaming Bitcoin thing. And it was getting easier and easier, still far from being easy, but it was getting there. And we tried to
do things decentralized. We ended up, unfortunately, centralized on a company and nothing against this company, but there was the problem is if you have a lot of of Bitcoin going back and forth, you can kinda get the attention of the government because they're like, wait. Are you laundering money over there? And so that company was like, yeah. We will help anybody, unless you're in The US. And so that's kind of taken a seat back. And I feel like the one girl in Willy Wonka is like, I
want it now, daddy. You know? And they are working on an a a different approach, but that's one that's that I'm kinda like, oh, we were we were really getting some steam going there. So there's that. And I I mentioned it earlier. I think the other thing that we just kinda need is a little more creativity. I I don't, in in the and it's just, you know, old curmudgeon of me. In the early days, there were some really weird shows. I remember one guy, as he was, shall we say, doing his business,
in the first of the morning. It was called the daily download, and he was he was on his throne, shall we say, recording a podcast. Very weird. There was a show called Yeast Radio hosted by, Madge Weinstein, and Madge Weinstein had this wicked New Jersey accent. And and and back in the day, this is again, like, 02/2005, just swore like a sailor, like nobody's busy. Like, really outrageous. And you're like, woah. You could do that on the radio. And then I found
out later that Maj was a dude, and it was an actor. The whole thing was just an an act, and it was hilarious at the time. So there are times when, you know, there are and there's nothing wrong with the typical solo show and an interview show and things like that, but I kinda like can we kinda mix it up? Throw something in there so that you can't be copied? I just inducted George Robb into the, the hall of fame, and the one thing you can't
do is copy George Robb. There's only one of him, and he's, so sometimes I'm like, I I'd like to see a little more creativity in being different, and that's hard. I mean, that's one of the hardest things about podcasting. When you go, well, how is your show gonna be different than everybody else's? And people go, and it is. It's your background and your thoughts and your perspectives that are gonna make it different, but sometimes I miss the really super creative
stuff. Well, I suppose today, it's a lot harder for that super creative stuff to break through with the the deluge of new shows that are constantly coming out, you know, with the barriers to entry being lowered even more so. So, but, yeah, you know, be creative, be fun, and, be determined. Don't give up. We, we could use your your good shows. What about tech? Is there anything on your wish list, hardware, software, something that is out there that you wanna buy that you haven't
yet or something that you're like, god, I wish somebody would make this. Yes. I love the PodTrak p four. Okay? It it is the Swiss army knife, and it came out years ago. It's about a hundred and $50 now. And if we went back to, you know, 2,010, this would have been a couple thousand dollars or maybe a thousand dollars. But, anyway, I have I actually emailed Zoom this week, and I'm like, any chance a 32 bit float version of this is coming in the future? And they didn't say no,
but they didn't say yes. And but they do have the new h one XLR. Or the h six essential, that's 32 bit float with all the same features as the p four. So it does because the thing that's nice about the p four is it's a recorder and an interface at the same time. Yes. Okay. Well, that's beautiful. Because I saw where the h one is two microphones in, only one headphone out, which is that's kinda like, but if you're a solo person, it works. But it I heard
it does record and be an interface at the same time. So if the h six does that, I might have to check into that. But, I I love my p go ahead. Yeah. PH six does that. Obviously, it's not gonna be a hundred and $50. Right. And you also are stuck with just the one headphone jack. Yeah. So you just buy a quick, you know, headphone jack, headphone, headphone amplifier, and you're good. Oh, don't worry. Zoom makes one that they'll happily sell you. Yes. Exactly. So that's that's the piece of gear.
And, look, that doesn't mean that the p four is bad. It's just everything and the the big magic phrase is 32 bit float because it's kinda hard to record bad audio with that. And I'm like, oh, if we could only marry 32 bit float into a p four, life would be so fulfilling. So Well, if anybody wants to buy Dave a cup of coffee, AKA Zoom h six essential, I'm sure he would be grateful for it. And, of course, this is gonna be the hardest question because of what you do
and how long you've been doing it. But are there any podcasts in your life that you cannot live without the shows that regardless of what else you're listening to, they drop a new episode you're gonna stop, or you just you're never gonna let one of their episodes get by you that week. There there are probably two. One is I I mentioned him earlier. George Robb does a show called the Geologic podcast, and it's just it is the epitome of I
don't know what I'm gonna get. So as much as you should be consistent with your content, George is consistently funny, but he he's it's the basis of that show is science. It's a lot of sciency kind of animals that morph into this or do this and that. And he also has a segment called the religious moron of the week because George is a skeptic or atheist. Take your pick on whatever verbiage you wanna use there. So I always joke and say, why listen to make sure I'm not the religious moron of the
week because I'm not a skeptic, but but it's just entertaining. And it's one of those I wonder because I've been listening to George since 02/2006, maybe 02/2005. And I always wonder if I hadn't been listening this long and found him today if I would still feel that way, but I definitely feel like I know him. And then the other one is no agenda with, Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak just because I keep hearing news that should be on the news, but it's not. And they just their whole
part is they just kinda pick apart the news. Like, they'll you'll hear, like, well, bird flu is up two percent from and, like, okay. But what numbers is that? Like, if I went from, you know, two people to four people, that's a, you know, whatever percent. Never do math live, by the way. But they'll say, well, wait a minute. They're not giving us the numbers. They're giving us the percentage, and they just kinda dig through stuff. Plus, they have clips of news articles from
forever. And so when somebody will say, well, we're gonna do this new thing, and they'll be like, wait a minute. Didn't he say the direct opposite, like, eight months ago? And they'll be like, yep. Here's the clip. So it's kind of fun. They deconstruct it, the media, and, sometimes it stops you from if you just watch the news, they just want you afraid and scared twenty four seven. You know? Do you swallow saliva over a long period of time? You know? Story at eleven.
This kinda thing. We're like, wait. What? So those are probably two off the top of my head that, you know, there are others, new media show. I listen to, like, I listen to your show. I listen to, like, so many shows about podcasting, but, I think maybe that's why I like those shows because they're not about podcasting. It's like, oh, here's a break, and it's entertaining. Yeah. I'm I'm the same way. My my two shows that I won't let go by, I listen to Start Here, the ABC Daily News podcast. And,
these days, it's been Conan O'Brien. He's a friend. I I just I just find myself loving the interaction and and, you know, needing a laugh, and and they tend to provide a a good one every time I listen. So, yeah, I'm terrible about listening to podcasts about podcasting. Yeah. Well and Conan's a good interviewer once he gets to the interview. Drives me nuts. I'm not a like, you because you know them, you're probably listening for the witty banter at the beginning where he
just makes fun of his staff. And I'm like, buddy, he's interviewing Paul McCartney. Get to, you know, whoever. It's funny. I will listen to the witty banter and skip the interview sometimes. I have no idea who the person is. Yeah. I'm the same way with Marc Maron. I used to listen for the interviews, and now I listen for the witty banter, except his witty banter
is we're all gonna die. And I'm kind of not listening to that as he really is, like, worried that the world is coming to an end, and I'm like, this is not really what I was looking for. Yeah. It's, it it could be exhausting. Yeah. But but, anyway, it's, it's been a pleasure as always chatting with Dave Jackson from the infamous school of
podcasting. If you were thinking about starting a show or need help with yours, you will not find a kinder, gentler, more experienced person in the space to help you out with. And, of course, set a podcasting a pod page, which we already include a link to pod page in our show notes every week, because that's what we use for our website. Can't say enough good things about that platform and the team over there. New features coming around all the
time now, it seems like. I feel like every few weeks I'm seeing you guys pop up something new. So, just a great platform to use. Dave Jackson, always good to see you. Always good to hear from you. Always good to chat with you. Thanks for coming on. Matthew, always great to hang out with you, man. Thank you so much. Thanks for joining us today on
Podcasting Tech. There are links to all the hardware and software that help power our guest content and podcasting tech available in the show notes and on our website at podcastingtech.com. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite platform, connect with us on social media, and even leave a rating and review while you're there. Thanks, and we'll see you next time on Podcasting Tech.