Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective solutions for achieving a professional sound and appearance. I'm Matthew Passi, your host and a 15 year veteran in the podcasting space. We'll help you cut through the noise and offer guidance on software and hardware that can elevate the quality of your show. Tune in weekly for insightful interviews with tech creators, behind the scenes studio tours, and
strategies for podcasting success. Head to podcasting tech dot com to subscribe to this show on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform, and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full potential of your podcast. Heading down to Dallas, Texas, where we are chatting with Sarah Saint John. She is an entrepreneur, podcaster, and an author. She runs a podcast frugalpreneur, and she also has a podcast marketing agency, which you can find at podcast marketing dot
agency. We're gonna talk to her all about that and her journey in podcasting. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. So what was your journey into podcasting in the beginning? Right? What what made you pick up a microphone and and start doing this stuff? Yeah.
So, I had actually written a book called frugalpreneur, and I decided kind of at the last minute to, like, create a podcast to coincide with a book to it was only gonna be, like, 10 episodes,
though. And, basically, I was interviewing the different CEOs or someone from the different companies of some of the different companies I talked about in the book because the book is about, like, different ways to make money online and, and what tools and resources and software I recommend to do it on a budget or for free even. And so, but it was just gonna be an extra marketing avenue, or more exposure. But, actually, the podcast did a lot better and took off more than the book
did. And I love the the, the connections I was making, the networking, the conversations, even the friendships. So I've kept it going, and it's been over 5 years now. Awesome. And just for everyone listening, the book is frugalpreneur, building a business on a bootstrapped budget. And I'm sure for podcasters, a bootstrap budget is a very common thing that they are
working with. What were some of your early investments that you made to produce the podcast, and, you know, where did you look to save money in doing so? Yeah. So the podcast I mean, the nice thing about having a podcast for your business is that I think a lot of people assume that it's expensive because they're thinking of it in terms of, like, a broadcast studio, you know, or a radio station. But, you know, you can obviously get started for under a $100
for a podcast. I I bought, like, the cheapest mic I could find or the cheapest good mic, which was an ATR 21100. And then I started out hosting on Spreaker, which I think was free, and then it started I think it went up to, like, $7 a month or something. Now I'm on Captivate. But, you know, so, really, I was paying, like, under $10 a month to, you know, pay the initial 60, 70, whatever for the mic. USB mic goes right into your computer. So, yeah, the startup costs were very low.
And, I mean, obviously, everybody in the podcast industry knows that. But I think people who are getting started, they assume that it's gonna cost more than that. So Yeah. I mean, there's definitely a lot of literature out there that talks about expensive home studios, expensive software, expensive talent, hiring, engineers, hiring producers, all that stuff. But, really you can do it. I mean, really, if you have no budget, you can
pick up your smartphone and start doing it. Now it's not going to be the same quality as others, but right. There's nothing that can stop you from capturing content and putting it out there to, to get yourself started. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. What were some of the so you said you were having success with the podcast. What were some of the things that you did early on that you think
led you to that success? Was it simply having the right content at the right time, or were there little tricks and tips and things that you were doing that, really helped you out? I think there are a few different things. I had had different, like, series, like, topical series. Like, maybe for a week, I would put out an episode every day on the topic of podcasting, and then
the next week, maybe, on self publishing. So I kinda had, like, topical, like, miniseries within the podcast, that people, I think, seem to enjoy. But then, also, I was able to get fairly big names, pretty quick in, like Pat Flynn, John Lee Dumas, Mike Michalowicz, all that. And I think that also helped a little bit, at least with the authority factor, you know, like, the credibility of the podcast and whatnot. But, yeah, so those are some things that I did, and I interviewed a lot of
so my show is kind of a variety. It's, like, mostly interview style, but there's also some solo episodes, and then there's some that are, like, maybe like a 5 minute episode about a particular software that I use and recommend to run my business on a budget. But yeah. So just kind of, I think, the variety as well. It wasn't just one type of show. I think that kind of sparked interest. So, like, some people, if they're into
interview style, they listed those. Some people feel like solo, shorter episodes, listen to those. So yeah. Has the strategy or has your thoughts on how to podcast change to those 5 years or, you know, with the advent of new software, hardware, you know, platforms, like, what have been some of the changes you've seen in podcasting, and and how much has that impacted the way you go about doing it? Yeah. So probably it was over a year ago, I had noticed that because
I check my analytics every day. And I noticed that I suddenly had an instant increase in downloads. And I was trying to figure out what why was that? I mean, I go on other podcasts, but, like, I hadn't been a guest on some big podcast that would maybe, you know, that many people would come over and download. So I was trying to figure it out, and so I told some podcast friends, and they actually
looked on the charts. And I was in the well, at that day, I was in the top 200, and then the next day, it was, like, the top 100 in Apple Podcasts under entrepreneurship. And I was trying to figure out, well, why or how? Well, one thing that I noticed when going back to my analytics was that the episodes I had had kinda leading up to that were much shorter, and so, therefore, they had a higher
completion rate. Like, people actually listen to, like, 90 plus percent versus, like, I don't know, 40 or 50% or whatever. And so I don't I assume that must have played some kind of factor. But so ever since then, I've I have been I still do long form interviews, but I do a lot more shorter episodes too because the completion rate, is so much higher. So I guess that's one strategy or one thing that I'm starting to do differently is, more episodes that are shorter or just, like, solo episodes.
Okay. When did you decide that you wanted to not just produce your own podcast, but then start to help others in the podcasting space? So that's been kind of in my head for at least a couple years, but my initial thought was to do podcast production because I produce my own show. I always have. And I was like, well, I could get paid to do this for other people, but it just
my passion wasn't in it, I guess. I tried it, and I was like, so but what I really enjoy and where my passion is is in, like, the marketing side of things and finding out the different ways to get either more downloads, more listeners, or get publicity or PR for your podcast, you know, things like that. And so that's now where I help people
versus, like, the production end of things. And that's also been kinda good because there's tons of podcast production agencies, but I can think of less than a handful that I'm aware of of, like, specifically podcast marketing agencies. And then I've reached out to different production agencies, you know, that don't offer marketing services, to let them know that I could, like, they could either refer me out and vice versa, or I could even white label for them or whatever.
So I feel like it's kind of open more opportunities or doors as well. So when you are approaching a client for the first time who wants to work with you as far as marketing assistance, what are some of the things that you are looking for? Looking at, like, I assume it's not a one size fits all strategy for everyone.
Yeah. I mean, the first step is always an audit, I recommend, where I go through and just listen to their episodes, cover art, their descriptions, their show notes, their website, their social media presence, you know, all of these different aspects and kinda see where they could improve to, you know, could be as simple as the new cover art or or whatever, but see where there's those initial areas that they could improve to either be more searchable and findable or
me be more appealing. And I keep the audience listening longer and get people to actually share the podcast or refer the podcast out and say, hey. You need to listen to this podcast, because I feel like word-of-mouth is definitely one of the best
ways. And then, you know, looking at their marketing strategy and trying to find ways that either they can collaborate with other podcasters, whether it's like feed drops or promo swaps or, like, maybe there's a newsletter that they could be in that's, like if their podcast is about a particular topic or niche, obviously. Let's say they they have a podcast about pets or something, because we were just talking about pets before we started. So that's why it's on
my mind. But, if there are other podcasts about pets, you know, doing the whole drop drop and swap. But if there's newsletters about pets, you know, finding a way to be in those newsletters or blog posts or, just different ways to get press for the podcast, for audiences that would be interested in that topic, of course. What do you find in doing these
audits that is the biggest mistake podcasters are making? A lot of times, it's cover art because the first step, really, I feel like, is cover art because if someone's scrolling through a podcast player and your cover art doesn't stand out or get someone to click, then the rest is irrelevant. But I would say cover art, but also how they name the episodes.
That's also a big one. You know, a lot of people will just have, like, the guest name on the episode title or or something like that, but it won't actually explain what they're talking about in the episode or what the listener will get out of listening. And then, I I would say those are the 2 big things. Also, maybe the description, it's not long enough. It's not SEO friendly, or there's more keywords that they could include. Another mistake is people don't have a website for their podcast.
I I would say those are kind of podcast. I I would say those are kind of very common issues. So, yeah, I used to do podcast audits as well and talk to folks about marketing. And you said something that I think is very true is that most of us discover or start to listen to a new podcast from the recommendation of others. Right. Someone we know like or trust says, oh, Hey,
Sarah, I know you're into blah, blah, blah. You should check out this. Or you listen to a show from a trusted authority and they say, Hey, I'm talking to Sarah on the podcast, you should check out her show and write that that gives a lot of authority and and convince people to go over it. As a podcaster, what do you think is the best way to turn listeners or anybody in your, you know, potential network into your advocate?
So you could have this is kinda tricky, but you could have some sort of, like, affiliate or referral program, though the only way that's gonna work is if you have a product or service, to actually get people to refer
just your podcast. I mean, that's kinda hard. But I think making, like, a game out of it, like, even giving out shirts or stickers or whatever to different podcast listeners for them to either wear, and then that's how they you know, it's a free shirt for them, and your, podcast is getting attention because they're wearing
it, and someone might ask them about it. But, but just, like, rewarding, like, giving a shout out, I think, is a big one, whether it's on a podcast episode or in social media or email. But, yeah, just coming up with fun ways to kind of engage and interact and even creating, like, you could have, like, a Voxer or fan list. There's these these different platforms where you can, like, exchange voice mail, so to speak. I think that's also a good thing to do as well.
I think the more engaged you are with your listener and, the more likely they are to share and and and and maybe even do q and a sessions as well. I know some people do that. I always like the idea of, you know, communicating with your listeners. A lot of folks think
I'm in front of a microphone. This is a one way street, but real successful podcasters, they do communicate, they do chat, they do engage with the folks who they work, who are listening to their show, who comment on their show, who like their show, who do anything to interact and let them know that they are there and, you know, creating that engagement, creating that relationship tends to, pay
dividends, in the end. What are some of the the new or, you know, what are some of the upcoming trends in podcast marketing that we should be keeping an eye out for? Okay. So this is one that I that I've recently been talking about that I think is just a fun thing to do is, like, Times Square billboards. Yeah. With your, like, with your cover art and then a QR code next to it.
And you can a lot of people assume that getting a billboard in Times Square costs 1,000 of dollars, but it actually can be as low as a 150. There's, like, different, like, welcome to timesquare.com, I believe. And, there there's, like, a handful of different companies that do this, where it's a digital billboard, and you can book a slot. And, basically, it'll display your ad for 15 seconds every hour for 24 hours. And How much was that? A 150. Oh, that's not a thing. I know. It
is. It's not a and so I I recommend, you know, if people are gonna do that, to try to go to New York or or if you're already going to New York, wait. Plan around your visit that you're already planning, and then try to get, like, a selfie or video of you with it. But if not, they do have, what do you call it? Like, a live a live stream. I don't know. I was gonna say screen share with it. Yeah. A live stream of it. So you can at least snap a
shot of it. Like Yeah. Do you have a sense of when each hour it's going to happen, or it's, you know, luck of the draw? No. Yeah. You just know what day. And then, of course, it's for 15 second 15 seconds every hour. So, yeah, you might have to stand around for a little bit. But I mean, I'm gonna be in New York tomorrow, so
I'm just gonna be trying to do this. I don't know. Well, I'll, if I get this done, I'll share a link with everybody and I'll I'll share a screenshot of me in front of the the billboard talking about what it is that we're going to put on there. So that is, that is very cool. Thank you for that resource, and we'll include a link so that you, the audience, can find it as well on your own and, try to try to check that out. We are chatting with Sarah Saint John,
entrepreneur, podcaster, and author. As a reminder, the podcast and book are both titled frugalpreneur. And if you are looking for some help with your marketing efforts, you can check out podcast marketing dot agency. So, Sarah, when we have people on the show, we always like to ask everybody the same three questions, and then kinda curious to get your take, especially given your time in the podcasting industry
and how you work with others. So first off I I'm asking, is there a place where you would like to see improvement in podcasting overall? Like whether it's discovery distribution, things like that. I would like to see Apple and you know, the big ones, Apple, Spotify. And I it might be Spotify is doing this now, but where you can actually, like, communicate with listeners where they can comment on the episode. I thought I heard Spotify might be doing that. I'm not sure if that's
There are. Yeah. There is now some commenting and messaging features, in in the Spotify dashboard. And even if you don't host with Spotify, you can go and and, you know, engage with your audience there. Okay. Yeah. But, Apple doesn't have that yet, so I think that would be nice. There are some platforms like Goodpods and Podvine, although I'm I'm not sure that Podvine exists anymore, where, you know, you can have engagement and, communicate with
your audience. I think that's the big issue with podcasting is just there's unlike, say, a blog or a YouTube video or something like that where people can easily comment most of the time with podcasts, at least on Apple Podcasts, you can't do that. And so that is what I would like to see
change. Okay. Is there a piece of technology on your wish list, whether it's something that you know is out there that you need to get your hands on or something that hasn't been created yet that would make your life easier as a podcaster? Well, I will say that what you just created has been something that you know, the little beacons, I think, that is awesome, when you're at conferences and whatnot for people to just scan like that. Let's see. Another technology who
Could be hardware. It could be software. Let's see. I would say that is a good question. I wonder I'm now I'm just thinking about the whole beacon thing. If there's a way that it can not only share your podcast, but I don't know how you would do this, but somehow, like, you would get information of the other person's podcast. I don't know if I'm making sense. No. So almost like a, a pod swap of sorts. Right? And it's like, you know, how do we connect to each other kind of a thing.
Yeah. That that might be something that would be interesting. It's an interesting thought. I will, I will definitely, look into it and see if we can come up with something that, makes sense in that frame. So thank you for that idea. And by the way, for those who don't know what Sarah's talking about, we have these podcast beacons, little NFC, based key fobs and wristwatches, and you just tap your phone on here, and it'll take people directly to your podcast or landing
page landing page of your choice. And lastly is, are there any podcasts that you're listening to that are your absolute favorites? The kind that when a new episode pops up, you were stopping everything else that you're doing to go listen to this or, you know, ones that you just will absolutely never miss? Oh, well, I subscribed to over 50 podcasts. So, I'm trying to think. Branded Podcast. That's, with Larry Roberts and Sarah Lohse. They're both familiar or popular
people in the podcast space. There's a lot of podcasts I listen to that are about podcasting, but there's too many of them, so I'm not even gonna, start to list those. I would say after hours entrepreneur with Mark Savant, that's also one that I enjoy. Let's see. Yeah. Most of these are podcast related. That's okay. I mean, obviously, our audience is a little bit more podcast centric. So if you have a couple of good ones there that you like, you know,
and to those who don't get mentioned, it's okay. Don't take offense. She said she has a lot of them. Yeah. Oh, a non podcast one is the email sound booth with Liz Wilcox. She was actually on Survivor. But, yeah, she just launched her podcast recently. But, yeah, as far as podcasts about podcasting, of course, School of Podcasting, I mean, everybody knows that one. Podcasting business school, podcast workflows. Yeah. There's a whole bunch, but,
Yeah. I those are definitely ones that I always listen to. And this podcast too, podcasting tech. Oh, thank you. That's a double double promo. Podcasting tech at a podcast beacon mentioned in one shot. We appreciate you, Sarah. Check is in the mail. Once again, chatting with Sarah Saint John, entrepreneur, author, podcaster. Check out the frugalpreneur both in audio and book version. And if you're looking for help growing your show, podcast marketing
dot agency will have links to everything in the show notes. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Thanks for joining us today on Podcasting Tech. There are links to all the hardware and software that help power our guest content and podcasting tech available in the show notes and on our website at podcastingtech.com. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite platform, connect with us on social media, and even leave a rating and review
while you're there. Thanks, and we'll see you next time on Podcasting Tech.