Well, this is an interesting story that we're gonna talk about today. One that I think you're gonna be seeing a lot more of in the coming years. We are chatting with Jeff Revilla. He is the founder of Podutty Live. It is out in Taranum, PA, just outside of Pittsburgh. It is a podcast theater. And like I was saying, I think the idea of live podcasting into events is, you know, really gonna grow in the coming years and super interested to
learn more about the space and, your background. So, Jeff, thanks for being on the show with us. I'm so glad to be here. Having a good time already. We were having fun backstage, and I think it's gonna continue for the next, 20:20 minutes or so. I will I will do my best to, keep things light and fun and happy. So, before we talk about Padutty Live and, you know, what you're doing right now, how did you get into podcasting and, you know, content creation,
you know, in general? Yeah. Podcasting for me, I kinda fell into it in 2,006, 2007. I have my first color iPad that, was inscribed for Father's Day, and I I fell in love with shows like, you know, Marketing Over Coffee. I think Joseph Jaffe was doing AdverCast at that time. It was it was a long time ago. The bean cast was one that I listened to early on, and I just I love this idea that I could create something and put it out into the world. And though I wasn't restricted
by, you know, there were no gatekeepers. Literally, if I could record it and and put it out in the world, it was there. And and and I tried it for the first time in 2011, and I just I had no idea, you know, what an RSS feed was or or how to distribute audio through an MP 35. None of that idea. And it wasn't till about 2015 that I put all the pieces
together, and I did my first trivia show. And and that's really how I fell into making things interactive and and bringing an audience into a show and and just having a good time together as a group, and it's really evolved, you know, over the last 10 years to to where I'm at now. So you launched the stuff I never knew,
trivia game show back in 2015. Like you said, it was this interactive experience and, you know, not that technology was ancient or terrible back in 2015, but, obviously, the tools that we have today are are light years ahead of it. What were you using back then to get that live experience, to get that engagement with your audience as opposed to just talking at them, which so many podcasters are used to doing? I'm one of those crazy people that you'll hear rambling on and on and on and
on about a platform called Blab. And if you're around Blab. Oh my god. Yes. If you're around in 2015 and you're on Blab, you you witnessed a great time in Internet history where it was one of the first 4 in the box on the screen, and and you could go live, and Blab had such this great social element to it that within 3 minutes, Blab would flood your livestream with 30 to 50 people, and people would be typing commands and let making it snow and making the and giving props, and it was
this great chaotic community element. And it lasted for a couple years, and it got crazy and the technology they couldn't keep up with the growth and it folded eventually. But Blab left a huge hole in the market and and, especially for people like me, a huge hole in my heart for this ability to be able to connect in real time, and that's how I did my tribute show. At first, it
was I would I'd had nobody booked. I would go live, and I would the first day people who wanted to play, I was doing a game show with 8 contestants that weren't booked prior to me going live. That's how powerful Blab was, and I I always loved that idea that, you know, we could do all this together. You know, podcasting could be more than me just, you know, sitting in my home office where I'm at now and just talking 1 on 1. It could be
something so much bigger, and it can be an event. It can be an extravaganza. It can be, you know, you know, a bunch of crazies just sitting together and making fun of each other. And I I just fell in love with the community element and and adding that into the podcasting, which is really it's more intimate. So almost 1 on 1. When you're commuting to work or you're exercising and you're listening to the podcast, it feels like you're in the room with them. It feels like it's this 1 on
1 interaction. And I was like, well, what if we did it as a party? Right? We can make this way bigger than I think it it really is. So what then so I guess it was the loss of Blab and, you know, the experience that you have doing this in front of a live audience. Is that what led to the idea for this theater? Like, take us through from 2015, you start the show to where we are today with, Padutty Live out in, Western PA. Yeah. We tried we tried recreating it so many
times. We used Appearin and Google Hangouts and, you know, YouTube Live, and we tried all these other things. You know, Facebook Live was it was relevant for a little bit for small creators, and it nothing just really did it. So about in 2018, I came up with this idea. Well, I'm just gonna go out into the world, and I I wanted to design a a theater, you know, a production that I could fit in the back of my sedan. So I had, like, you know, everything. I had speakers,
microphones, mixers. I had a podium that could just wheel around and and ask and do trivia. And I thought, oh, I could it'd be fun to, like, go to people's basements during a party and, you know, host a game show, like, while there's a raging kegger going on in the garage. Like, it would be something I could do anywhere, and I and I wasn't restricted by a physical space. And I kept thinking about that, and then I started to book. I booked my first real
show. We're gonna do free tacos and trivia, March 30, 2020. We were very excited. We were gonna get it done, and then it just so happened, it wasn't the best timing. A little bit of a shutdown happening. So, you know, because of COVID, I took this, you know, podcast anywhere, you know, pop up theater idea, and we were indoors. We were, you know, stuck inside, and I said, well, what if we could have a theater and we weren't bound by the capacity of the
room? And I I put some thoughts together, and I actually presented this at at Podfest Origins, in 2020. So I I came up with this infinite seat theater idea, and that's if you look behind me, my my theater is 40 seats. Right? It's 40 people, but I can livestream to 1,000. And that's that's kinda how this all evolved is how can I do something with with an audience, but also, you know, do it virtually so that anyone anywhere at any time could pop
in and and see what's happening here? I mean, right now, right, between going all the way back to the days of Blab and, Meerkat, right, some of the other ones when live streaming kinda became a thing, and now today, obviously, live streaming is just everywhere. Right? People go live on Facebook and YouTube and Instagram and now LinkedIn and TikTok. Right? Like, we're just constantly doing live stuff in and TikTok. Right? Like, we're just
constantly doing live stuff virtually to our audience. But this idea of bringing people together, bringing people into a space, I think, is so exciting for podcasters. I I've been a part of a couple of live podcasting events, and I've just been seeing increased interest in podcasters going out and doing their thing in front of an audience and feeding off that energy and, you know, being able to have that in person interaction. So what what's it like for
podcasters who are coming in to use your space? Right? Like, what can they expect? What is the, you know, what is the workflow? What do they have to know? What do they have to think of? How do they prep to be in person possibly for the first time ever? Yeah. It is a little different. Right? I'm not you're not sitting in your home studio. You're not rerecording things. You're learning how to you know, or taking you know, doing multiple takes to get it right so that you can fix it in in post.
What we wanna learn is there's, like, almost like a muscle to hosting, a muscle to to live performance, and what we do is, you know, prior to the show, we booked the show, and we look at the elements of of their show. What pieces could will adapt well to the stage? What plays well with an audience? And we start to craft. We wanna kinda get into that 60 to 90 minute. It can include a
break. Sometimes I say, you know, include a meet and greet. If you if you do smaller shows, you know, we're gonna do we'll call it a 2 show event.
You're gonna do 2 shows. We'll break in the middle. You can talk to the the the people who are in attend attending, ask questions, q and a, 1 on 1, and we try to just structure something so that we're giving value to the audience because most of these podcasters are they're really in between now, and that once they go from recording in their home office to what they see as, you know, comedians and actors who have launched podcasts, they're filling theaters,
and they're filling arenas. Well, you know, where I'm put I'm in the middle there. I'm I'm trying to be that stepping stone. How do we get out of the house, out of our home studios, into a live environment so that when larger podcasts come through into town and they need opening acts just like you see with music venues and music acts need opening acts, I believe if we look at the trajectory of podcasting, they're not gonna be able to continue to sell arena seats for a $120 and only give them a
45 to 60 minute show. That's not gonna last forever. So we're gonna need a mediator. We're gonna need opening acts, and that's really what you mentioned. You're gonna see a lot of spaces like this pop up. I really feel like this is that middle stepping stone to get podcasters into that live environment. You know, we structure their show. We help craft it so
that this is a product that they can they proudly can present. And once they understand that dynamic with working with a live audience, they can take that to a bar. They can take that you know, library sometimes do pop up shows and community centers. They can start to think of this in a whole new concept, a whole new, you know, aspect of their show. What would you say is the biggest problem that first time
users of a live space run into? Right? What is that big challenge that you see over and over again that you wish they could be better prepared for? Yeah. A lot of people don't even get this concept until I show it to them. There's people who walk in, and they they kinda understand it. I I just did a tour tonight, and what we thought would be, like, a 20 minute walk through ended up being a 90 minute brainstorm session because he's like, oh,
I have another show, and my friend does this. Oh, you can do that here. You know, that that you start to see all the potential once you immerse yourself in it. So I I get it. It's a it's a different concept that's newer, than what most people have been thinking about. I've been thinking about for 7 years, and I'm just now understanding that nobody else has been thinking about it. So, you know, getting people up to speed because they're a lot of people don't
think about doing a live podcast at all. They may have never even thought about it. They thought live streaming was enough. So developing them for the stage is is something that they really need to you know, that's something that really catches people off guard. But what doesn't catch them off guard is once they go through the process the first time, you come off stage and you are juiced. Right? You
are you are elated beyond belief. You never thought you could have that kind of emotion, that kind of rush that that's that's something else that people aren't prepared for is the first time they come off stage, like, for their first show. It's it's it's quite a rush. I gotta imagine it is a great feeling to come off stage and feel that, you know, rush, feel that energy, feel that adrenaline pumping after
doing a live show. I also imagine, and what I've sort of seen in my own experience, is that it is more effective way to directly connect with your audience and turn a casual listener or, you know, low grade fan into a super fan and to an advocate for your show, and even convert other people who, you know, might just be, my friends are going out tonight. I'll go join them now. It's like, oh, this
is fun. I'm gonna go check this out. Do you see that in person interaction helping to drive a lot more podcast growth for these shows? Yeah. And even even virtual, the one phrase that really sparks imagination and sparks interest in an audience is the phrase live from the main stage. When people say, hey. I'm gonna be at the Paternity Podcast Theater. We're doing our show live from the main stage. That instantly adds a level of credibility that they didn't
have a week ago releasing on every Tuesday. Well, now the next week, hey. We're gonna be live on the main stage, and that that there's something there's something magical about that saying that you don't get from just a regular release schedule. And and bringing people in I don't know I don't know if
you have a policy on math. I have a little I have a math equation that helps, I think, really, people to see the value of in person is, you know, Lipson publishes podcast rates, and they'll tell you, on average, a host read ad gets about $25 per 1,000 downloads. So if you break that down, that's about 2¢, right, per listen. And you're like, okay. Well, that's, you know, bad. I would love to have that scale, and and we also know most podcasts don't get to a 1000 to 2000
downloads. So so taking that, that's probably a best case scenario for 80 to 90% of all podcasts. Maybe make $50 from a host red ad. Now what I'm proposing is let's book a show. Let's put something together, and if you were to sell 10 tickets at $10 a ticket, you know, you bring in friends, family, local fans, all of a sudden, those 10 people with once we the way my business model works is we split the door at the end of the night. Whatever he comes in, we go 5050. There's no
there's no minimums for the host. There's no upfront fees. It's just simple door split. That's it. So there's no risk to my creators. That's that's something I'm very proud of. But that 50% of the $100 is also $50. So the value of those 10 listeners were $5 a listener. That's easily, what, 250 times greater per person than the host read ad. So when you start to think, oh, maybe I could scale this. What if I got 20, you know, people to my next show or
25 or 30? All of a sudden, there's a whole new revenue stream for podcasters that aren't just based on chasing this, I gotta get host red ads. If I get host red ads, I'm gonna make all the money. There are other ways to to get here, and when you're at a you're at a a place, an establishment, you know, maybe you're at a bar, and there's drinks, and you're having fun, and there's 50 people hanging out who all love podcasts. They love your
show. Maybe they wanna pick up some of your merch. It's a whole different element than, you know, just sitting in your your house trying to get to that host read ad. You're even trying to get the ad. Right. And and I gotta say, it's funny. I do the exact same math in presentations when I talk about the difference between, you know, advertisement sponsor or supported podcasting versus direct support. Right? Like you said, 2 and a half cents, right, for a person when
you are doing an ad. Whereas if you run some monthly premium membership, right, you could charge $5, $10. I've seen people charge $20, and that's per person. Right? So the the math is just so much better when you can get your audience to directly support what it is you're doing and creating a live event creates enough value that people are willing to do so. So many podcasts, though, are you know, their audiences are spread out. And so I'm
curious. 1, do you find that the shows that come in and are successful, do they have more of a local focus? Or if not, how are they bringing people in when their audience might be, you know, really spread out and they might not really have the the 40, 50, whatever many people, to to fill that space, in their local market. Yeah.
I try to tell people, think of the stage like a portal. Everybody knows that scene in Star Trek where they go, you know, down below, and Scottie's down there to beam them up and down, from the planet to the ship. And, really, this stage is that portal. So you if you are spread out, that's not a problem. We we do full live streaming. We have 5 cameras surrounding the stage. We can switch between all of them at any time. We have an audience cam as well. Your audience doesn't have to be local.
That's certainly a limitation in Pittsburgh. We don't have a huge podcast scene. We have enough. We have some people around, but a lot of shows, even my trivia show, it's everywhere. So I I need to I need to be able to get that show. I need to be able to bring people in from Portland, Maine or Portland, Oregon. We can connect all those dots for them and and brought not only broadcast, but also have their guests virtually on our
main stage as well. I gotta imagine, though, if you're in front of a live audience, if you're claiming to be on stage and you don't have 10, 15, 20 people, you you the the virtual audience isn't hearing that audience reaction. And does that potentially hurt, you know, the show, the product? Does it, you know, not give it the same juice that they're looking for? No. I don't think I don't think it matters too much because it is a small theater. It's it's designed to be immersive. It's
designed to be intimate. Even with 40 people, you're never more than 3 rows away. So it it's not like there's there's an audience of 1,000. It's you're gonna hear that rumble of the room laughter. I I don't think that's it's it's really based on the podcast and their performance. Everything else is secondary. If if we do get some laughs, that's fine. If not, the focus is on the stage and on the star or on on the podcast.
Well, again, because you've invested into this space. Right? Everybody sounds good. The the, you know, the video's looking good. So right away, that elevates their production value. It's gonna, you know, make it look more professional and something more appealing to the folks who are tuning in virtually to, to check it out. We are chatting with Jeff
Ravilla. He is the founder of Padutty. It's a podcast theater outside of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, And it sounds like it would be an excellent space for podcasters who are, 1, looking to get, you know, that make that transition from doing everything alone, you know, on a platform like Riverside or Zoom or something like that to making that leap to more in person events and whatnot. And it just sounds like it'd be a ton of fun and a great way to write kinda meet your audience.
Jeff, before we let you go, we have a couple questions we'd like to ask everybody on the show. And, I mean, I'm sure this first one, I could probably tell where you're gonna go with it, but I'll ask anyway. Is there another place in podcasting where you would like to see some improvements, whether it's from the production side, distribution, listening. Right? Is it just something that really, you know, gets at your crawl about podcasting
that you'd love to fix? Yeah. I'd I really when I think back to when I started listening to podcasts in 2,006, 7, and 8, that that DIY element, I I feel like some of the smaller podcasters with 2 2 things I really think happened. 1, COVID created a flood of shows, shows that are now dormant, shows that produced 1 episode, and then they're just it's
muddying up the feed. So that that kind of drowned out some of the voices of active podcasters, and then the influx of celebrities and comedians have taken some of the attention away, in that pool of, you know, there's only so much time in the day. People can't listen to so many podcasts in the day. So I wanna re I wanna bring back the balance to those independent creators and kinda skew it back so that, you know, we're the dominant force in podcasting again. Not not the top 10 that you hear
referenced on every news show every night of the week. We wanna get well, I wanna build up some of the smaller shows, bring back that DIY independent mentality. Love it. I imagine that you have your, you know, facilities pretty well tricked out, but is there any technology on your wish list, whether it's something that is already out there that you've been eyeing or maybe something that has yet to be created that you, would like to get your hands on? I need a little
more budget. I'd love to get some PTZs in there. Right now, I got 5 stationary cameras that I can just zoom zoom in and zoom out, which is fine. It it gets us started, and, you know, things will grow. As far as technology outside of this, I'm not sure. I've I've kinda pushed the limits of what you can do with 2 mixers and a StreamYard. So, for right now, I'm pretty happy with what we got, but, you know, other things would just be getting the getting some PTZs in
there. I hear you. We are eyeing a bunch of those right now for, some some projects that we are working on, so they are lovely. And, finally, is there a podcast that you listen to that is your favorite? Right? It's one of those episode comes out, you are going to listen to it, or, you know, you're not gonna let an episode, you know, just sit in your in your playlist for too long. As far as some of the fun ones that I listen, I I still listen to Marketing Over Coffee to this
day. I still, I like there's some other trivia spaces. Trivia Warfare and, Triviality are some of my favorites, so I kinda stay in that space a little bit. And I try to I just like the idea of, you know, those those 3 shows have been around for a while, and they've been doing it well for a while, and there's they're independent and produced by themselves. So I I try to stick with them and support them as much as I can. Perfect. And we'll we'll make sure we throw a link to, those
shows as well so people can, check them out. We've been chatting with Jeff Ravila, founder of Paduti Live. It is a podcast theater based in what's the name of the town again? Tarentum. Tarentum, PA. That's just outside of Pittsburgh. Thank you for the assist there, Jeff. Thank you, of course, for joining me here on the show. Really appreciate it. You're welcome. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a blast.