Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective solutions for achieving a professional sound and appearance. I'm Matthew Passi, your host and a fifteen year veteran in the podcasting space. We'll help you cut through the noise and offer guidance on software and hardware that can elevate the quality of your show. Tune in weekly for insightful interviews with tech creators, behind the scenes studio tours, and
strategies for podcasting success. Head to podcastingtech.com to subscribe to this show on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform, and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full potential of your podcast. Taking you out to Colorado today, we are chatting with Caroline Hull. She's a podcast business strategist at Wild Home Podcasting. You can find her at wildhomepodcasting.com. Caroline, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for having me.
It is a pleasure to chat with you and, you know, we always like to talk to people about how they kinda made their way into podcasting, and yours is interesting because you started in a completely different industry. You talk about being in ballet and choreography. So how do you turn Love of That into a podcast business? Yeah. I don't think we have enough time to go through the whole journey. But I so through a series of events, I was actually a greeting card designer. So I had
done ballet. That was my major in college. I was injured, had to move back home, did some grant writing, did some various jobs, decided to design my own wedding invitations, started a greeting card company. So I was in the creator, maker, greeting card world, happened to be in a forum one day. I mean, this is almost ten years ago, and was like, I think it would be
cool to start a podcast. And somebody commented and said, yeah. I think it would be cool to start a podcast too, but I don't wanna do it by myself. And so without even knowing each other, we started a podcast, and we grew, a wonderful podcast. We grew a huge community. We had products associated with that podcast. It was called the Creative Biz Rebellion. My cohost was Kelly. She was amazing. And then just because of life events, we ended up, not doing that
anymore. But during the course of working on that podcast, I became, like, the back end person. I ran everything that had to do with the podcast on the back end. She was, like, the face. She did the course creation, all of that. And we would have people on the show, and they would be like, oh, do you edit podcast? And I'd be like, well. And it just snowballed from there. And before I knew it, I had a podcast agency. That's amazing. And, yeah, that that's so many so many
production companies and agencies start the exact same way, right? They're handling it for themselves or, you know, maybe they're helping out a friend and next thing you know, someone like, I really like your work. Can you do it for me? You're like, I guess so. Yeah. Why don't we why don't we do that? So in this day and age, right, there's been all this writing about the the burst of the podcasting bubble, the demise of the podcasting, blah blah blah. Yeah. I don't feel that way
either. But I guess I'm curious where you're at as far as, you know, how you view the industry right now, how you view the space. Like, what is the opportunity for podcasters? And I understand that, you know, most of your clients are really brands and small businesses who are using this. It's not just, you know, hey. I like to chat. Let me get my friend on the podcast, and we'll talk and, you know, be cool. But, right, there's there's a little bit more objective behind it. So what do
you see with the podcasters you're working with? Yeah. You know, I think it's really interesting because I feel like even though people are talking about, you know, like you said, the demise of podcasting, I'm seeing a lot of growth on my end, not just in opportunity, but in listenership. And I know that there was a survey that came out, at the beginning of or towards the end of last year, and it showed that listenership had actually grown.
And the cool thing is that is that listenership is growing among women, which works really well for me because I mostly work with female business owners who are using their podcast as a piece of their marketing. What I think is so special about podcasting, even with all the video that is going on with YouTube and short form video kind of bursting into the scene and being how a lot of people are interacting, There's something so special about literally
having people in your ear chatting. And what I think is so incredible about the medium is being able to sit down and really refine your messaging. And so for my clients, what they're able to do is use their podcast as a bridge between that video content, between that short form content to their actual
services, to their business, that sort of thing. I've also really found that using it strategically and having, like you said, an objective, a goal for your podcast, is so much more helpful for business owners than just sitting down and recording episodes and hoping that someone listens. I definitely think that there is room to stand out and really find your niche in podcasting right now.
I just saw a number the other day that was like, there's only 381,000 active podcasts out of the, you know, million that are actually in the apps. And so to me, that just screams opportunity. And so that's really what I work on people with is finding their niche, getting really clear on their messaging so that the right people are finding them. So when you say this strategy, right, we we used to work with clients as well.
And for some of those clients, it was just, let me get guests on the show and that'll be a networking opportunity, or let me put this stuff out there and make myself look cool and smarter and, you know, bigger than I actually am. But you're really talking about the show itself, like the strategy behind what content you put out there, how you organize the episodes, what are some of the things that you
think about? What are some of the questions that you will ask of your clients and hosts about, you know, formulating that strategy? I think the biggest thing is once shifting your mindset. So instead of thinking of your podcast as being this entity that sits over here, which a lot of people do. So they'll have their Instagram strategy. They'll have their email marketing strategy. They may even have a blog, and then they're like,
a podcast, and it's a completely separate thing. I like to pull it all together, have it all work together, and really think of it as part of the funnel. So it's not just a standalone thing that sits over here. I hope people click. We actually are using it. We're driving people from Instagram to the podcast to our opt in, and then there's things that happen on the back end from there. The other thing I like to think about with content, especially, is what's going on in your business?
What are your business goals? What are you working on right now? What are you promoting right now? And how can you create content around that? How can you create content that makes your ideal client feel seen and heard in a way that they're not feeling seen and heard in a thirty second video on Instagram? And so we really focus on creating I like to
call it content that converts. So, creating content that hooks people in, shows them why they might be experiencing this thing, tells them how, and then directs them to something else that is within your business that's gonna lead to even something else. So it really is, like, using your podcast as a funnel and thinking about it in that way and less of I'm just creating episodes. So you describe, your strategy as profit over downloads. Right? We're we're too
focused on some of the wrong metrics. So what are the metrics that you look at, and how often do your clients see the kind of success that I think they were hoping for? Or maybe they are surprised by, you know, how much success they get off of this product? Because I think there is some frustration in the world with,
you know, the the ROI on podcasting. So many people either can't see it, can't draw the line, or they're not getting it, and I'm sure it's more an issue with strategy, but, you know, what what can they learn from you and how you work with clients? I really think that business owners come into podcasting thinking, if I get a million downloads,
I will become famous and everybody will buy my things. Like, I think there's this mentality of I need to get tons of downloads so that way people will actually buy my things. And what I like to focus on is what is your actual goal? Are you trying to grow your membership? Are you trying to book more one on one clients?
What is the growth that you wanna see in that area? What's interesting is when you shift your focus from the downloads to creating content specifically for the purpose of your business goals, you're going to see business, podcast growth. You're gonna see those downloads go up because your content is more niche. It's reaching the right people. You're doing growth activities around your podcast that support not just growing the podcast, but also your marketing and business goals. I have a
client that I worked with. We did a complete refresh of her podcast and strategy. She was actually an Instagram strategist. So I was like, okay, this is gonna be interesting working with somebody who's really good at doing short form content. She had a podcast. It wasn't really working for her. And she just posted on her Instagram, actually, the other day the graph of the growth of her podcast since working with me because her content is so much more aligned
now to what she's trying to achieve. And so she's actually grown exponentially in downloads while also booking more clients from her podcast. So I really think that it's important when you're a business owner, you're creating a podcast, that you're coming at it from, what is my goal? Is my goal just to get downloads? Is my goal to grow my email list? Is my goal to grow my membership?
Because that's really gonna help you determine the type of content you create and how you talk about your offers or services, those kinds of things within the episodes. So I hear what you're saying, I totally agree, you know, spot on, same advice I think I and many, many others in our position would give to
clients and how they would approach it. The the next question, the one that I think is hard and and this Instagram person might be a great kinda case study for her because of what it is that she does, as well. How do you right. We don't need the million downloads, but still, how do you get your content in front of the right people?
What are right. Like, you can have the best strategy, the best questions, the best guess, but if, you know, a podcast falls in the woods and nobody hears it, right, does it have an impact? And so what is it that you see as being the most effective way for brands to get people to, forget download, just to know about focus, pay attention, right, care about the content
that they're putting out there. Yeah. I really think that having a growth strategy is is an important piece of any podcast strategy. And beyond, like, focusing on things like SEO and creating great content, I like to do what it what I like to call audience borrowing. So the thing about podcast is there is an audience out there who wants to hear your
podcast. And like you said, they have to know about it. And so one of the best things you can do if you're just starting out and you're wanting to grow your audience is get on other podcasts because people who are listening to podcasts wanna listen to more podcasts. But you really have to be strategic about it. So who has an
audience similar to me? I have found that collaborations, networking, guesting on other podcasts, having guests on my podcast strategically, so not just having someone on because I think they're gonna help boost my downloads, but someone that is maybe has a similar audience and really is gonna bring some value to my audience also helps me grow my podcast. I am not one of those people who's like, you need to go out and run a bunch of ads in order
to grow your podcast and get in front of the right ears. I really think it is about, like I said, collaborating, networking, borrowing people's audiences, and doing it in a way that feels like it's not taking over your life. It's not taking over your podcast. And if you're really strategic about it, it can work for you. So one of the things that this client that I mentioned that she did was, and she's actually, like, a
super great example. Her name is Elizabeth Marbury, if anybody wants to go follow her her Instagram. So she had a huge Instagram following, and nobody was going from her Instagram to her podcast. I mean, I'm talking, she has like thousands of people who follow her on Instagram. She used to be a wedding dance coach, and now she's an Instagram strategist. So she dances in all of her videos. They're amazing.
And so that was part of what we talked about was like, how are we gonna lead people from Instagram to your podcast? And it really was about weaving in the content, repurposing the content from the podcast episodes, but also, like, how are we talking about the podcast on our Instagram? So definitely go check out how she does it because it's pretty incredible. You'll notice that she never really mentioned she has a podcast. It's in her bio,
and she just posted something about her podcast. But, generally, when she's posting, like, go listen to my podcast, it's more of go check out my free guide on how to do this. Because I think what we forget is that these podcast episodes are packed full of free information. Like, you don't need to be creating tons of PDF freebies. You have this podcast. You have this library of knowledge sitting over here and somebody can seriously bench through them
and learn so much. And so utilizing it. So I think, you know, between that and working on a visibility strategy that works for you, those are the two things that I really try and focus on with my clients in building their audience. Love it. By the way, if you wanna check her out, she is looks like at Elizabeth Marbury, m a r b e r r y. Her podcast is called Strut
It if you want to check that out. Before we get to the questions that I like to ask everybody, you brought up, you know, your focus of working with mostly women clients and, you know, you bring up Elizabeth here as a good example of what's going on and the opportunities for women in
podcasting. What advice do you give or what advice would you give to women who are thinking about podcasting and worrying that, you know, they're gonna get drowned out or they're not gonna be able to break through the the, you know, the
proverbial podcast ceiling? And also, what would you say to men in the podcasting space as far as how they can take advantage of, you know, this trend of women both engaging in podcasting and podcast listening, not that that's new, but, right, the numbers just continue to creep up. Yeah. But also, you know, getting in on the content creation side. Yeah. I think that the biggest piece of advice I have is that your
voice is super important. Your perspective is super important. A way I tell my clients all the time is there is someone out there who's looking for you, who is looking for your content, who is looking for exactly what you're saying, and they can't find it. I mentioned, like, how important it is to feel seen and
heard in other people's content. And I really think that's true, especially of women in podcasting, and I think that's why it's so incredibly important for us to use our voices and to share them. I think that confidence doesn't come right away. So I always like to tell people that I'm an INFJ. If you've ever read the Myers Briggs, I am like the extreme introvert. I was you know, I I feel like I was definitely one of those people who was raised in the environment of it's better to be seen and
not heard. And so I really didn't have confidence in my voice. Podcasting gave me that. Pod podcasting is how I learned to cultivate my voice, to be strong in my perspectives, to not be afraid to share. And so dive in. You know, that's the great thing about podcasting too. It's audio only. You can hide behind your microphone when you first get started. If you're not ready for video and build that confidence, use it to help refine your
messaging and you will stand out. And I think as far as women just in the podcasting industry, I think it's just really important that we we hold space and we hold space for everyone. And it's been really exciting for me in the last couple of years to see the amount of women who are podcasting, the amount of women who are in podcast marketing and strategy. I feel like that's grown so much and
I think it's only gonna continue to grow. And I think just holding space for them, like, you know, being on podcasts like this is so cool for me because I know that when I started podcasting, there were not a lot of voices like mine out there. So, yeah, I think it's just really neat to see how the industry is growing and changing and evolving, and I'm excited to see where it goes from here. Love it. As a reminder, we are chatting with Caroline Hall. She's the podcast business
strategist at Wild Home Podcasting. The link is wildhomepodcasting.com. Caroline, before we let you go, the questions we'd like to ask everybody. First up, is there a place in the world of podcasting, and this could be recording, production, distribution, marketing, consumption, but is there something that you would wanna see changed, in the podcasting space, to make it easier or better? Oh, gosh. I I think the thing that I am curious to see is accessibility and how
that evolves. I think that a lot there has been so much evolution in the technology that a lot of things on podcasting are so much easier than they used to be. I remember when I started, I had to Google for days to find out any information, and I was like, what is an RSS feed? And stuff is so much easier to do yourself now, which I think is incredible. We have
tools like Descript and ChatGPT. But I think that the thing that I'm really excited to see improvement on is, how people are able to consume podcast who maybe cannot listen to it or don't have the ability to do that. I know that Apple Podcasts recently added, transcription, which I was, like, so excited to see, and I'd love to see that across the board and in other places. So, yeah, that's the thing that I think still needs improvement, and I'd love to see improved. Love it. What about
your technology wish list? Is there a piece of hardware or a piece of software that either is out there that you wanna buy that you haven't or something that hasn't been made yet that you'd love to see created to make your life as either the strategist or as a podcaster easier? I just wish there was, like, a magical tool like Descript Studio Sound and my lovely super complicated iZotope
software that, like, work together. Because as much as I love Descript and studio sound, it doesn't do all the things. And, you know, my clients, they love Descript, but when we're editing for people, we're still pulling stuff into iZotope and running all kinds of filters. And I would love I think that we're getting closer to there being easier things, but, you know, there's gotta be some kind of combination of the two for regular people. I think that would be amazing. Love
that. And finally, are there any particular podcasts, a few, one or two that you will absolutely stop what you're doing and listen to when a new episode drops or, you know, you're not gonna let them go, unlisten to in your feed? Yes. Yes. One of my favorites is, one of the podcasts, like literally any podcast that BBC puts out. Like they have a fantastic series called, which I love stuff like that. So it's so funny because I work on business podcasts,
but I do not listen to business podcasts. I actually love to listen to like storytelling documentary style podcast. I think somewhere in my future, there's a documentary podcast in my future. My daughter and I have talked about starting one about space. So anytime BBC puts out anything, I'm like, let me listen to that. And then the newsworthy, if you are not listening to the newsworthy, I highly recommend it. It's Erica Mandy. It's the news in, like, ten minutes. She covers
everything you need to hear, and it's not biased. It's just the news, and I love it. I'm trying to do a news detox right now. And so having her podcast available every morning, she releases a new episode. Like, I would love to just be a fly on the wall on how she does that. So, definitely go check her out because it's amazing. Love it. It's the newsworthy. We will drop a link in here for
anybody who wants to check it out as well. Carolyn Hull, podcast business strategist at Wild Tone Podcasting, thank you so much for joining us today. Today. Thank you so much. This was so fun. Thanks for joining us today on Podcasting Tech. There are links to all the hardware and software that help power our guest content and podcasting tech available in the show notes and on our website at
podcastingtech.com. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite platform, connect with us on social media, and even leave a rating and review while you're there. Thanks, and we'll see you next time on Podcasting Tech.