Welcome to Podcasting Tech, a podcast that equips busy entrepreneurs engaged in podcasting with proven and cost effective solutions for achieving a professional sound and appearance. I'm Matthew Passi, your host and a fifteen year veteran in the podcasting space. We'll help you cut through the noise and offer guidance on software and hardware that can elevate the quality of your show. Tune in weekly for insightful interviews with tech creators, behind the scenes studio tours, and
strategies for podcasting success. Head to podcastingtech.com to subscribe to this show on YouTube or your favorite podcast platform and join us on this exciting journey to unlock the full potential of your podcast. Very special guest on the show today, someone who, if you've been to podcasting events, especially Podfest, you probably know who he is. He's he's always there, and he's always has a big presence. It is Glenn Hebert aka Glenn the Geek, founder of the Horse Radio Network,
and host of Horses in the Morning. Glenn, thank you for joining me tonight. Well, I'm glad to be here. And, you know, I don't know why we haven't done this sooner. I think we've known each other ten years at this point. It's a long time. Right. There's no reason why you shouldn't
have been on before. It's funny because I it's a lot of people, they'll ask me about podcasting and advertising and niches and I always tell the story, when you and I first met or, you know, we were we were sitting down chatting at Podfest one year and you were talking about shows that are successful and levels of success. And I always remember, you know, horses in the morning, obviously,
massive audience, big download numbers. But I always remember you telling me that you have that carriage horse racing show or you had that carriage horse racing show, and that actually had, like, bigger margins or was technically more profitable even though it was a really tiny audience. And I I took that to heart, and I always share that with people, you know, as far as, like, why niches are important. And I definitely wanna come back to that some more.
But first, just real quickly, you have an interesting foray into podcasting, in particular into podcasting about all things horses. Tell us how you, you know, got started with horses in the morning and and eventually launched the network. Well, I, I was a performer for a long time. A matter of fact, I have a picture up here above my head that's, an acting company that I owned for ten years, and we did medieval feasts. We kinda did a Benny Hill version of a medieval feast. So it
was fun. It was improv. It was we did 450 shows. And I got out of that, got into doing business stuff. I was in finance for a long time and, owned some companies and sold some companies. And then, I just needed an outlet for for the creative side again, you know, for the performer side. And my brother said, hey. There's this thing. I listened to Twit. I listened to Leo Laporte's Twit, and this was back in 02/2006. And he said, I think they called a podcast. You ought to check it out.
Maybe that's something you could do. And that's and that's how it started. I, I did my first show in 02/2006, which was an immense failure because none of us knew what we were doing and nobody knew how to listen. And it was way ahead of where I should have been in the horse world. And then in 02/2008, I tried it again. Technology had caught up a little. Smartphones were just starting. You know, it was a little easier to listen to a podcast and then started
a Stable Scoop show with my good friend Helena. And I knew I always wanted a network. So we started one show on the horse radio network. And I called it radio back then because nobody knew what a podcast was, but I could tell them it was online radio and they would kind of get it right. That's why it was radio network and not podcast network because, you know, back then, nobody knew. We barely knew. So people struggling today. Yeah. And then we started
more shows. And then I always wanted to be a morning radio show guy, but I didn't wanna go to work. So that's when I put out a call for a cohost to start horses in the morning, which would be a daily show an hour an hour and a half every day, five days a week. And we started that in 02/2010 with Jamie, my cohost, who came out of morning radio in Atlanta. She was in top four 40 morning radio in Atlanta. You know how the morning radio shows always have two guys and the girl, the token
girl? Well, she was the token girl. You know? So, you know, she was that person, but she had, you know, done very well there and moved and decided she wanted to talk about horses. So we started horses in the morning, and now we're at 3,600 episodes fifteen years later. Incredible. Yeah. I I'm I guess what what made the show you think attractive to people? You know, like, you're you're doing this
morning radio thing, but you're also keeping the focus on horses. Do you think having that focus helped in the success rate finding that specific niche, that specific filter to go through what's happening in your lives and what's happening in the world, was, you know, able to help you grow your audience? No question. I mean, horse people are addicted to horses. They spend all their time and money on horses, period. There's nothing else in their lives. So so we had that going for us. So it
was a good niche. And there wasn't really any other podcast out there for horses. The Daily Show, I think I think the reason it well, it's what I always say. They come for the content, but they stay for the host. And that's true for podcasts or YouTube channels. If you think about all the YouTube channels you watch and subscribe to, subscribe to, you're subscribed because you like the presenters. You like the host. You like the people that are doing the show. There's a million travel shows out
there. We subscribe to four or five different YouTube channels because we like them. So we would watch whatever they did. And, you know, and that's true of especially true of podcasts. So I think that, people came, tried out horses in the morning. It's a commitment to subscribe to a show that's gonna take five hours of your week. Right? That's a commitment because it's an hour every day. And they subscribe because they like me. They
like Jamie. They especially like Jamie. She's probably my most popular cohost. But it's because we're vulnerable. We're out there. We talk about our lives. The show initially started to be about our guests, and now the biggest complaint we get is we have too many guests. And it's not enough for us because the show really has become about us and our lives in the horse world and how it relates to horses because everybody we're just average horse people. I'm a
horse husband. I wasn't even, you know, a horse guy to start with. She's a trainer. So it it really we have that kind of I asked the dumb questions. She asked the intelligent questions. But that kinda works. Right? And now now fifth you know, 6,000 interviews later, I probably know more about horses than most horse people, but that's just because of doing the show. But I think that's why people hung around. They got invested in us, and
I think that's why our Patreon community is there and so addicted. And it's why it works, is because we were like them. Now we and we do some good interviews, and, you know, we have some fun along the way. It's a comedy show, first and foremost. It's entertainment. And and I think the other thing is I was the first one to really start the segment instead of doing just a long interview show. We will have four or five
segments in the show. So our interview is never more than ten to fifteen minutes, and then we're done with the interview and moving on to a different segment. So there was all if you weren't interested in that guest, you just fast forward fifteen minutes, and you were at something else. If you didn't like
the something else, fast forward fifteen minutes, you were at something else. So we always had segments, in the show, and some of them are recurring segments every week, some are once a month, you know, and some are just one offs. But they always knew that there's gonna be something new in about ten, fifteen minutes. I the idea of segments is so interesting. One of the shows that I've been listening to podcasting forever is Wait Wait on Tommy, and that is a highly
structured show. Now, of course, it started as a radio show, so it made sense where they had to fit to the clock, but they've kept that structure all along the way. And it's interesting because I I like listening. I feel like a comfort in listening. And anytime they break the mold, right, they do a best of show or they do something else. I'm
always just a little bit uncomfortable listening. And so, like, did you have that thought about the familiarity of segments, or was it just something that you felt like it worked and you just kept wanting to come back to it? I stole the none of these are new ideas. Right? Nothing we do is new. So I stole the idea from a morning syndicated radio show called Bob and Cherry. And I've become good friends with them now since then, by the way. But they were
on for years, and I listened to them for years. And I was like, I wanna do a segmented show like they do because they had regular guests, one guy that came on did movie reviews, and I so look forward to him coming on. So I knew if we could get regular guests that would show up once a month, that people would look forward to that too, and they would look forward to the segments that we do. The most popular thing we do, hands down,
is on Fridays. The last thing we do on a Friday, and I knew I needed something that was gonna keep people to the last thing on a Friday show, right, before they head into the weekend to ride their horse, is we do something called really bad ads. And that's where listeners submit bad Craigslist and Facebook ads for horses for sale. And we just make fun of them. Basically, we just make fun of them. And it's our most popular thing we do. We get hundreds of people submitting every
month. And then we got sponsors that wanted to give away prizes. So we give away prizes every month. We randomly pick three of the people who submitted bad ads, and we give away 4 or $500 worth of prizes every month for people who submit bad ads. And so, you know, that was that was just that happened by accident, and it was one of the all the good segments we do now happen by accident along the way, and we just followed them. I love that.
Just kinda follow what works, try different things, and you just gotta kinda trust your gut. And I love that idea that you save it for the very end. Lots of folks are always, you know, wondering, how do I get people to listen to the very end of the show? And it's like, you have to have a hook. You have to have something that people wait for. And and there are lots of shows that do this really well, but I think the way you just described it is brilliant that you were
really conscious of that thought. So so what happens next? You, you know, you did the first show, The Stable Scoop, then you do Horses in the Morning. Where does it go from there in terms of growing the network? Well, I I I knew that we had we had identified a ton of niches in the horse world that we could do shows about. My thing was always finding the right host. So my first goal was to find the right host, and I did that usually by doing
interviews on one of the shows. So we'd have them a guest on one of the shows, and I'd go, that person may would make a good host. And then we would I'd figure out what niche they really were good in or competed in or whatever, And then I would approach them, and that we always started with the host and then built the show. And so, you know, we built, 20 plus shows over the years, and I would never start a show unless they
had a sponsor either. So the two things I had to have was a good host, a good sponsor, and a good marketing partner. So I'll give you an example. We started a show. There's a there's a very boring and I'm not everybody knows how I feel about this. There's a very boring but very popular, competition in the horse world called dressage. It's kinda like dancing. You know? And it for horse husbands, it's boring. My wife did it, so I had to watch it. So,
I, you know, I can speak from spirits. But we've the Dressage Federation in The United States was, we approached them about being a a media partner for that show. So now and making it the official podcast for that for, Dressage. So twelve years ago, we started that show, and they were a marketing partner. What that got us was an audience. There was no money exchanged hands, but they promoted the show. So it brought an audience in.
And here we are twelve years later. That show is still one of our most popular shows, and we're still the official show of the of the federation. So it was media partners, sponsors, and the right host. I I'm I'm envisioning you at these events, you know, sitting at a table almost like dodgeball with Jason Bateman and what's his face, you know. You know, talking about the
Ocho and, you know, like, just having fun, like, watching people do it is. Do you go to the events and kind of broadcast from there as well? Not as much. We've been we get invited to 10 events a month. And the problem with that is every time you leave the house, it's $1,500. You know, it's funny because I would I would tell people that and they don't believe you, but when you figure it out, if you take everything into consideration, every time I leave the house to go to
an event, it's at least $1,500. So we knew we couldn't cover everything and be able to afford it and be able to sustain it, so we didn't. We just didn't. We went to key a couple key events every year to shows every year. But the one thing we never missed was the wholesaler show with wholesalers and retailers in the horse world. There was two of those every year. I've been to almost 40 of them now. And we went to those, one, to highlight new products that were coming out
because our listeners love hearing about new products, but two was to find sponsors. It's at those in person events where we found 80% of our sponsors. Because when you're face to face with someone, you got their attention. And if you give them something and then approach them about sponsoring, so we give them an interview where they could highlight their new product, put it on a show, and follow-up with them, They would see a
result from the interview. They the you know, that talking about that new product, they see sales coming in, and then we had their attention, and we'd go after them for sponsors after that. So it was that in person wholesaler meat retailer show where we and then eventually by the way, we do their podcast now, the Wholesale Show's podcast. And we go there now and do shows. We actually record shows at at the event in Dallas. But, you know, it
was always finding a marketing partner. And I, you know, we we got we were the first ones to have press passes at an event like this because nobody ever did that. And then, you know, I just approached them and said, why don't you do your own show? And that show has a smaller audience, maybe five to 700 a month, but it's targeted to the retailers, you know, where the wholesalers meet the retailers. So that's a very targeted show and very effective that way. But
yeah. So we do their show now too. It's all about partnerships. It's all about who you meet. And, you know, it it's all about who knows you, not who you know, but who knows you. That's the most important thing. Do people know you? I I'm I I wanna go back to this idea of the wholesalers at the interview and talking to them. And but real quickly, let's go back to that idea of the the, you know, the super niche. Right? The CaraTaurus racing or
dressage. Like, what did you find when you were creating these extremely niche shows with these wholesalers or, you know, all these very specific topics. Like, how did those compare to the more general day to day, you know, talk show format that focused around horses but wasn't, you know, as super niche as some of these other ones? It was easier to find sponsors for the niche shows because, you know, a lot of your sponsors our sponsors in our world are medium to
smaller companies. A lot of them, you know, they have three or four employees, but they target they target that niche. They have saddles or bridles or whatever for that specific discipline. So it was actually easier to target them and have them come aboard and actually have them do well. So, you know, we're doing this because we want them to sell stuff. You know, we're our goal is to help them sell stuff. So we were never looking for the large companies, the
ones with ad agencies, because they weren't looking at us either. Right? They don't wanna be bothered. So we always we always talk to the medium to small companies because I can do I could help them grow. Our first sponsor years ago, fifteen years ago now, is still our biggest sponsor today. And she says, you know, over the last fifteen years, she's gotten more direct response from our shows than any other advertising they do, and they do a lot, like, you
know, well into 6 figure advertising. But she said, I hear more from your people who say I listened to you know, I heard you on the show. I I have this question for you about my horse. She said, that's who I hear from. I don't hear from somebody that says I saw a magazine ad. You know? Because our advertising is so personal. It's you know? I I can say, hey. Look. I use Kentucky performance products with my pony, and this is why. That's
much more personal than seeing a magazine ad. And, you know, I'm owned now by a company that owns 10 magazines, so they love when I say this stuff. But I'm sure they do. I have to imagine too that being part of that magazine, allows them to sell, like, big bundled advertising. They do. Is right. Like Yeah. And now and, you know, we sold I sold the network, to almost three years ago now and to, one of the largest media companies in the horse world. And they they didn't have an audio
side. They had magazines. They had video. They owned some companies as well, some production companies, but, they didn't have the audio side. So they wanted that tripod, and they were missing the audio. So that's why they took a look at buying us. And, it took about six months of negotiations. Fortunately, I had a very good lawyer. And, you know, we made the deal, and, my deal was that I would continue on for three years after running the network. And that very
seldom works out with principals. They usually last six months, and either they're fired or they leave. It never works out, actually. You know that as well as I do. It just doesn't work. People say they're gonna do it, but here I am because they've been very good to me, and I've tried to continue doing my job to my best ability. And then hopefully, continuing on after October, I'll I'll just be hosted horse hosting horses in the morning, and then somebody else will be running the
network. That's the goal. Very nice. Yeah. I have some experience. I I stayed on for six months with the company when when it was sold in a totally consulting role, right, just helping them out as much as I could, very amicable. But, yeah, a lot of people when I was approached about the sale said, don't try and stay on. It it never works out, so I understand. Well, you know, it's different though with podcasting because if you think about it, you know, I
host, you know, one of the most popular show on the network. You can't do that because that show then goes away. You know? It was my relationships with these sponsors and all of that that was built. So I think they were smart enough to realize, hey. This guy can't go away or we just lose our investment. And in podcasting, that's different because it is all about the personalities. That's true. People are coming
for you and your co host. One one thing you said earlier that I wanna just touch on real quickly, you know, you you talk to these wholesalers and you interview them and then you get them to sponsor. They need to pitch them to have their own show and you you help them target their specific audience, which are the retailers. What is your strategy for real efficient podcast marketing targeting something so specific as that? It's the media
partners. It's the partners we have because they have the audience already. So in this case in this case, it was kinda easy. So when you have the wholesale show, they already have a you know, they they know who their clients are. They know who the retailers that come to the show are. So we're targeting them directly. It becomes a little easier because they're already in communication with them through social media and email and all of that. With a
more general show like Courses in the Morning, it's word-of-mouth. You know, you know, you still see the statistics come out. It was more so years ago that the only way people came to your show is through word-of-mouth. 70% of people found you through word-of-mouth because search wasn't that good years ago for podcasting. You know that. That's only gotten better since COVID, really. And yeah. Yeah. And you're right. It's still not great. Right?
You search horses now and and you'll get all but horse in the morning doesn't come up first. Depending on what search engine you use. So we knew word-of-mouth. So we actually did campaigns throughout the year to encourage our our listeners to tell their friends. You know, you're at the barn today. Go tell your all your friends at the barn that you listen to the show. Or better yet, put the if they own the
barn, put the show on and let them listen to it. And a lot of our listeners actually play the show in the barn, on speakers. So they listen to it every day because we hear from them all the time, you know, that they're we do horse whinnies throughout the show occasionally. And they said, every time that horse whinnies, my horse is whinnying back. You know? So it's that kind of thing. It was it's word-of-mouth. And you know as well as I do, for somebody to subscribe to a new
podcast, it's a commitment for them. They're thinking about, do I have time for this? They're subconsciously going, we do it too when we subscribe to stuff. We're going, do I have time to listen to this show, or will I have to take the time to listen to this show? So it's a real commitment. I think that's become harder over the years.
I think now it's harder for people to commit because there are they have all this other stuff they can commit to, audiobooks and, you know, a million podcasts and all of that. So our our challenge has become, how do we teach people what a podcast is to how do we now get people to listen to ours as opposed to the 5,000 others, you know, that are in our niche? Yeah. I I it's interesting. I I find that I don't have a problem with, do I have
the time to commit to a different show? Because usually I'm finding something because I'm getting bored of something else. It's it's the time to figure out if I'm gonna like it. Right? Because because it you know, you listen to the first episode, you you have no familiarity with it. Right? Maybe they're inside jokes or, you know, maybe there's something about the personality that is just new to you, and it takes a while for you to get so
comfortable with it that you wanna listen. And, you know, that that's usually my struggle is, you know, I know I'm looking for a show about x, and I listen to a bunch and I go, Right? Like and then I I find myself just going back to the shows that I don't like because at least there's that familiarity with it. Isn't that interesting? And, you know, we always say, like, with the morning show, with the daily show, it's even it's a serious commitment, right, for people to subscribe to that.
So we always say it takes them people and our our surveys have proved this. It takes people about a week to to figure it out and to go, okay. I really like this. I'm gonna hang around. They almost have to have to listen for a week. Now I would say, though, with most podcasts that you try, you determine in the first three minutes whether you're gonna hang around or not. You determine in the first three minutes that you're not gonna hang around. Right? You may not commit
to to it for a long term. You may give it more time to do that, but in the first three minutes, you're determining whether you're gonna you you bugged out if you're totally not into this. And it why? It's because you usually don't like the host. Yep. Yep. That that is true. Well, we do like this house. We're speaking with Glenn Heber to Glenn McGeek, founder of the Horse Radio Network, host of Horses in the Morning.
Before we let you go, there's three questions that we've been asking everybody about the podcasting world. And since you've been in it for so long, I think, you know, the audience is gonna find real value in your answers. The first thing is, is there a place in podcasting where you would like to see some improvement, whether it's from production, distribution, marketing, consumption, right, like discovery? What's that one thing where you're just like, man, we we still need to fix this?
I would say, and this has been my preaching for the last several years, is we need Apple and the major podcast players to segregate out dead shows from active shows. There's you know, when you take a look at the 4,200,000 shows that are out there, what what do we see recently? It's almost 400,000 that are active in the last ninety days. That's a lot of crap just sitting there that's not being updated. And I know when I go look for shows in a specific topic, the
first thing I look at is, are they still producing? And it's so frustrating because you'll go through 20 shows that haven't done an episode in in two years and to find the one that's still active. So I know we because of, you know, seasoned shows like Serial, we can't get rid of those shows. They can't just disappear off the podcast player. So I am proposing that we have an archived section and an active section on podcast players. So you can search
specifically for active shows. And maybe that's whatever active is determined to be. You know, they produced an episode in the last ninety days, six months, whatever that is, year. And then you can also search the archive shows. I think that's the solution to that problem, and I do think it's a problem. It's frustrating. You know, that's that's a really interesting idea. And as soon as you said that, I was thinking of a few shows that I listened to that were, like, you know, specialized
niche topics. Like, Rob Reiner did a whole thing on the JFK assassination, and, you know, there was, one on Uber or Airbnb, right, the rise and fall of these, you know, tech CEOs, Jeffrey Epstein kind of stuff. And, like, those are small series, and, yes, they haven't put out an episode in two, three years,
but they're still interesting and topical. My concern to what you're saying but I think it's fascinating, interesting, but, you know, what we will see now are shows that will have done something like that, right, short series, and then they'll just release weird stuff every ninety days just to make sure they stay in the good section. And and that's why I think that if I were to do it, if I
was a Pocket Casts, let's for instance. Right? I would have the search automatically go to both sections, but then you can so the default is everybody, all the shows. But then you can you can go, hey. Look. I just wanna search archived, or I just wanna search active. So so it's up to us as the listener then to have control. And I'm always about listeners having control. So I still think that's still my biggest pet peeve. Yeah. No. I I like it. I think
you're frustration from being a listener searching for shows. Yeah. I think you're definitely on to something. I I, you know, I think it the bad idea needs massaging, but Apple, I know you're listening. Get on it. Glenn Glenn is asking you. What about tech? Is there any tech on your list, wish list, whether it's something out there that you haven't purchased or something that you're like, god, I need somebody to make this to make my life easier. Again, production or or
consumption. You know, I think it was solved for me when the Rodecaster, came out and when the mixers that are specifically made for podcasting came out. That's what solved it for me. The Zoom p four for going to shows. So the Zoom p four, I can hook four microphones up to, hook it to my laptop, show up at somebody's barn, and I don't even need power. And everything runs off battery. I can do an entire episode right there in their barn aisle, and I can carry it in
a small case. So, you know, when we first started, we were using music mixers. And to be honest, I didn't understand 95% of the buttons on it. Right? I didn't know when any of them did. I I didn't wanna know. So when the RODECaster Pros and those came out, that that really solved a lot of the problems that that I had. So I would say I'm happy with where things are now. Microphones, we used to have to pick from one, you know, or two. And now we have, you know, a hundred to pick from. And I bought
a lot of them, and I don't even know what I'm using currently. Yeah. I have no idea. I don't care, as little as it sounds. You just cycle through a I'm not really a better if you have a stock. Not a stuff guy. So it you know, I have content over stuff. Fair enough. I I like that idea, by the way, because, yeah, you're in barns. How many barns have power outlets? Probably not very many, if if not any. So it's a really interesting find. And then with the p
four, right, the batteries, that that works really nicely. Alright. And then the last question is, what is, what podcasts are you listening to today? Like, what is that show that when the new episode comes out, you are going to stop what you're doing, check it out, or what's that show that you know I'm I will not miss an episode. I'm still, after thirty years, listening to Bob and Sherry. That was the syndicated radio show. Of course, that was a podcast now.
And they've started other podcasts. And I know the, the producer of that show. I've met him at conferences, and we talk all the time. And he actually asked me about podcasting stuff. So I listened to that. That's one I will not miss. Ironically, I have two daily shows I listen to all the time, and that's DT and S, which is the daily tech news show. That was Tom Merritt. And I listened to him from probably about twenty
years ago doing multiple different shows. He's his own network now. They do very well with Patreon too. They have about, it was a 16,000 Patreon subscribers at Daily Tech News Show. They're one of the biggest, and they're completely supported by Patreon, support. So those two, Bob and Sherry and the Daily Tech News Show. And then, of course, ask the podcast coach, one of my favorites. And then, of course, School of Podcasting. Dave
Jackson's been my mentor. He doesn't know it, but he's been my mentor since day one, you know, years ago, when I met him. So, yeah, those are the ones I listen to religiously. And then there are one other two, and I'll mention him because, he's a friend of mine, and I love the show, was What Was That Like with Scott Johnson. That's an interesting Yeah. Yeah. He gets the weirdest stories of people who've been through, like, you know, my parachute didn't open and
I lived. You know? And then they tell the story, that kind of thing. And some are highly selective about his show because some of the things I can't listen to. You know? But, he's one of the shows that I can't listen to every episode because because I my brain don't handle it. But I like that show too. Yeah. You know, I I I remember his marketing is so effective because he would put up a a picture or, you
know, a a big post with words on it, and he would say, right. Like, I, you know, jumped out of a plane and my parachute didn't open and I lived. You're like, yep. I've got to hear more. Right? Like, it was just great FOMO marketing. He has done probably better than anybody I know at marketing and also creating a community, which we have too, but he's created community on Facebook of listeners. He provided them a place to go, which is a mistake that a lot of podcasts make because they don't give
their listeners a place to talk. And he did that, and it's it's one of the most active I've seen. It's very active. Ours is too. You know? Ours are a lot alike that way, but, yeah, we are we've limit our closed group to Patreon supporters. So I kinda put a paywall in the way of our closed group because I wanted people who are really serious so I'd keep out the you know, so there wouldn't be political posts and things like that. Riffraff.
Yeah. Yeah. And and, you know, that that idea of having a community and having it, a paywall to get into it is for podcasters who are trying to monetize and don't have a budget, a free and easy way to start earning money right away. It costs you nothing to start a private
Facebook group and to just invite people in. Yes, it's a little bit slower, but, right, somebody somebody will pay you $510 20 for access to a group that provides value versus hoping that you get 5,000 downloads and have an advertiser pay you $25 for every thousand you get. So, great great mention, great callback to,
the power of community and and whatnot, and my god, great advice. We could probably do this for six days and, still not go through all the knowledge that you have, but we have been listening to Glenn Hebert, Glenn the Geek, founder of the Horse Radio Network, host of Horses in the Morning. And if you have never been to Podfest in Orlando, I implore you to go. You can just go. Always there, and he's always doing something to make the crowd laugh and to put on a good show, and, you know, go there
and say hi to him. He's he's a great great person, and really appreciate your time today. Thank you so much. Thanks, Matthew. Thanks for joining us today on Podcasting Tech. There are links to all the hardware and software that help power our guest content and podcasting tech available in the show notes and on our website at podcastingtech.com. You can also subscribe to the show on your favorite platform, connect with us on social media, and even leave a rating and review
while you're there. Thanks, and we'll see you next time on Podcasting Tech.