Episode 99: Airhorns are LIT!

podcasting 2.0 for August 26 2022 Episode 99 air horns are lit hello everybody welcome to the official board meeting of podcasting 2.0 coming to you live from right nearby the grassy knoll in Dallas Texas. time once again for your weekly board meeting find out everything that's going on with podcasting 2.0 What's happening with the namespace what went on and podcasts index in some brevity and of course everything happening at podcast index dot social I'm Adam curry here in

the Heart of Dallas, Texas and in Alabama. No way to force down the man who slept like a baby last night say hello to my friend on the other end ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones who is whose Jr Jay gets beat Jr. No no any James who shot Jr. Oh, remember that? Remember that? Jr? Yeah, my child of the 80s failed me. I was I was almost there. I forgot about the who shot thing. I just figured that year Jr. and I'm the like the chick with the wavy hair.

No, no, you're you can be Bobby you can be Bobby Ewing. Bobby was always he was also the man from Atlantis. So we had x ray all the skills. It was It wasn't fair falsetto. That was it was the No no, it was a Sammy Jo. Heather Locklear. Heather Locklear. Oh yeah, Sammy Joe, who didn't have a Sammy Joe poster on the wall back in the day. I had a poster of a Lamborghini. So okay, I didn't know there you go. There's Sammy. Joe had a Lamborghini. You never got the Lamborghini. I never got Sammy Joe.

Those true statements. So we are live from Dallas. Podcast Movement. 22. I'm on the 26th floor. I think you're on 23 or 21. Whatever, anyone. It's always so interesting. But this is kind of the best way I was like we were talking last night Why don't we just do it the way we always do it you sit in your room? Said I don't it's weird. It's weird to do a show that you do with someone remotely all the time. And then if you sit next to each other in

the room now it doesn't work feels weird. I don't feel good about that. staring at you like a so that was going on. I don't think we need to go through all of the controversies that have taken place here. Podcast Movement, pretty much everybody has read about it, I guess. I have think of learnings that I can share. Yeah, please. Have three learnings. Okay. All right. This year it's in and my voice is completely rigged by the way you sound. Barry, he's the Barry White of podcasting.

Ladies, gentlemen, let me let me let me tell you this everywhere you go in, in this place, there is little music. You cannot have a conversation with me but with anyone without yelling at the top of your lungs. Yeah, the entire time is like after four days. I'm like the voice is gone. It's completely wrecked. Yeah, I had the Sheraton breakfast burrito, not good eat piece of crap. And it's lukewarm. So we both had room service. And we both inadvertently ordered the same thing. We're not sharing

room. And and we compared notes and like what was that drag that they threw into it into a tortilla? It was just it's not. It's nasty. There's no service in hotels anymore. And it's also

married to Sheraton but it's owned by the Marriott. You remember one article when our vacation fell apart going to Aruba so we went to Fort Lauderdale stayed at the Four Seasons also owned by Marriott it was even a bigger piece of shit than this is now but it's services gone away there's just no you know people I think the I don't think they have enough people you and I literally went to there is a there's a branded

Marriott across the street. It literally went there to eat lunch just to escape the noise that yeah, in an hour. It's the energy to you know, there's just there's a lot of energy from a lot of different people. I've been to many conferences, you've been to conferences. But there is no no quiet space anywhere. That's partially the acoustics of the building. But you're right yeah, everyone's just Well, first of all, we're talking a lot you know, I don't know about you,

but I don't talk this much. In my normal day. I hang out with accountants all day, so I'm not I need the horn to Oh, man, I wish we gotta get that gotta get we gotta get that horn. It was what Okay, what's your third learning? Oh, no, my second learning. Oh, I'm sorry. Your second learning? Yes, I'm gonna number two. No, the the body Wash in the shampoo in the shirts and shower. I think it's the same thing on the inside with just a different label on it. It's actually canola oil

rapeseed oil. It's all yes. Yeah, it's, it's a law, it's the shampoo is a lie. It's all it's always fun to have your shampoo, body wash and conditioner bolted to the wall, it just makes you feel like you're in prison. I just feel like I'm gonna sell man. Like, what is. My third learning is that Ben Shapiro is the equivalent, he's the human equivalent of uranium 235, he can harm you, merely being in the room with you. That is something I did not know about, about humanity.

I did a full 30 minute overview of my impression of the conference and the so called industry that is here. So if you want to get a full dirty rundown, that will be a place to listen. I don't want to put too much nastiness. Because we had a really good time, we hung out with a lot of cool, cool people, all of the 2.0 people that that came out. And I'd say based upon this controversy, and interestingly, how people

responded to it. This went beyond politics. I tweeted, and people didn't understand that in an odd way, this controversy kind of brought America a little closer together. Because no, you know, a very frequent post or reply to this Twitter thread would be I don't agree with anything Shapiro says, but what is this? You know, so it kind of brought people a little bit together. And it really, I've spoken to many, well, a couple

of friends over the past. In fact, I spoke to a buddy of mine who lives I want to have lunch or dinner with him, but I'm gonna go, Oh, my God, I can't hang out with you, Vic. I said, you know, what, Where's all this coming from? He had this. This is core. This is corporate America right now. And he said, The only difference is, you know, it seems like in the podcasting world, they may have actually put numbers on the quotas, but in general, it's just like, there's this equity

balancing act. That sucks. It just sucks. And then, you know, and the virtue signaling, which is clearly what happened here, Brent, but looking at this level of quote, unquote, D, platforming, and, you know, other threats that were made to people about well, if you know, there's complaints about you, you gotta get out of here. I think that the entire podcasting 2.0 Orchestra, which has, you know, contains banjos, washboards, triangles, and Thurman's. Am mouth juice harps.

That's a good one. Yes. Congratulate yourself. We we built the escape hatch, just in time. The escape hatch, is there the escape hatch from the monetization you're not going to get? Because it's really not available to everybody? I don't think I think it's a very small group have in my mind, very ESG related type of podcast or projects or consultancies, that are companies that do these things specifically, that are

taking a lot of of the money flow. So I think value for In fact, there were a couple of women from Africa pods at our session. Yeah, I know this. And others. Oh, you spoken to them? Well, let me I don't know them know them. But I've communicated with him over email. Because I've reached out to him because I reached out to him a while back is this, this is a good thing to talk about. Because I reached out to them a while back and said, Hey, I just want to make sure that we have all the

podcasts that you have in the directory, right? Because you we have you know, we've we had the guy from Nairobi on about you know, he's doing Bitcoin stuff. And, like, I just want a know that Africa is a emerging podcast ecosystem. So I just want to make sure that we have all that stuff. So reached out and everything is just very nice. And then I talked to the guys at disk disk topia. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's another hosting company. Yeah, it's it's a very well, so their DNA is really cool. Like

they it I think, I think it's a black owned business. And so they they have really, they're telling me they have a really good relationship with Afro pods. And we get talking about a lot of this stuff, which is really cool DNA company because they started out, they were telling me all about their history. And they started out with seeing these these young artists, like hip hoppers and these kinds of guys that were

just signing their life away to like Spotify. but they were they were like don't do that just don't just don't do that let date and so they

so that their music guy he had that music guys, right? Yeah, yeah their music streaming guys for indie for indie musicians, and they say they're like, Okay, you know, their pitch is kind of like this I hope I'm getting this ride to pitches like don't sign your life away just to get the excitement of being on Spotify comm site sign with us, you're gonna get way better, better stream rates, we're gonna you know we're going to pay you,

we're actually going to pay you in where you're gonna get money. And then there's like a windowing thing where it's okay, you're going to be exclusive on us. And you're going to tell all your fans, you know, go listen to like, listen to our new album on dystopia, you know, and then after like six months, I don't know how long it is after a certain amount of time, then you can go on to the other platforms and but it gives them a chance to to have all their stuff exclusive and give a better rate

get better money. And it also at the same time builds dystopias, you know, base. Yeah, sure and have a bigger and bigger lately, like the way they were taught. Those guys are cool, man, I really, really, really good. Yeah, no, they're great. And they've just gotten into podcasts and audiobooks. And they're trying to build that stuff up. So anyway, that I love that. Well, the afternoon that for pods, ladies, I think the CEO, I kept meeting or in the elevator,

which was kind of weird and creepy. At the same time, I felt like this woman's thing. I'm stalking her. We're on the same floor as it turns out. And so the two main things in Africa, there's a huge radio culture of course, you know, that that's how they've been getting the word out. And it's all you know, limited range pretty local radio stations, it's the same in the Caribbean. And but you know, in Africa, it's really prevalent.

And so now that everybody has some form of a device that can at least you know, depending on bandwidth, but you know, there you go, enter, like the flip phone and what was a pod? Pod? What What's that app on the on the flip phone? They also use? Pod LP pod LP yeah. And so they're super interested in value for value because the you know, the bitcoin is understood very well in Africa, which I love. I love that everyone here

is like an African of like, hell yeah. Because they've they've know nothing else but debased money their whole life. But that's what the that's what the dystopia guys were telling me they were like, you know, you monetization is is almost impossible in Africa. They're like, you just it's because what was it you that said that? I can't remember who's told who told me this. Something like big Bitcoin. Bitcoins not know it. I know who it was is Gary aren't. I was talking to him last night

at the James Kirtland meetup. And he said, he said that his because, you know, he's traveled everywhere. I mean, literally everywhere has been 130 countries and all over Africa and everything. And he was saying that I think that Bitcoin will take off in Africa before it takes off pretty much anywhere else. Because the because the sort of us doesn't need Bitcoin is what he said. But Africa, Africa actually does. Yeah, the countries between the countries alone, they have different currencies.

And it's very hard to do business with with with your neighbor country, which we would say as our neighbor state, even though I realized Africa is big, huge. Yeah. It may not feel like a state. But you know, I think he said it has 90 countries just one continent. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, and it was great to be able to meet some of those people. Because, again, I just think that, you know, big corporations have been trying to capture podcasting. And they

failed once again. So, we I think we're doing the right thing here. And I and I love that these types of people are emerging and saying, Hey, we see it, what do we do? How do we get started? And this is just looking at all the good energy that that we had in the in the groups. When, you know, we had a nice dinner with a whole bunch of people in the hosting

business. You know, there's three people from Apple here who are doing their typical Apple thing, you know, like, because, you know, of course, I say, Hey, how you doing when you put the namespace in? And they give you that Apple smile? Yeah, Apple smile. This is I'm not gonna say anything. That guy who came in last night at the Cridland beer. Did you meet him the Apple guy? He was he was like, yeah, he's Apple PR, which is great, man. That guy is he's told he represents Apple, so

well. Hi. Hey, how you doing? Hey, I'm awful. Yeah, I couldn't stop smiling. Hey, yeah, he's a really nice guy. Did you see? Do you notice they all have the same gray shirt? Oh, yeah. Oh uniform. Yeah. Uniform uniform. Yeah. With the with the with the white shirt and the black tie and the Dockers had a nice hang with Mark from clean feed last night went out to dinner with him. Guy such a good guy very good guy was first it was nice because he's from the UK and he

has a different perspective on a lot of things. But he's, you know, and he we had a real difference of opinion on some core issues, which was good because it was nice to talk to someone with a different perspective. And he actually gave me some insight on things that I'm biased about. So but he does clean it his company's clean feet and just they won an Emmy for, for for their stuffs being used in films and music.

And it's really interesting. And I said, Well, we're talking about the conference said you're not here to sell subscriptions said no, I'm really here to meet with people and learn. And I like that. Oh, well. Okay, I just do you have any requests? Yeah, sure. Do? I sure do. I said I'd like to have EQ per channel, that's all I need. You don't need to put any other processing in. It's just, I don't have enough inputs in my life. In the mixer to be, you know, put three people on remote

through it. And he said, okay, yeah, we actually have that already. We just figured out how we want to do it. Because, you know, he has two types of users. You know, it's real novices and experts. And also he said he was talking to us working on maybe putting in some kind of live streaming stuff that could integrate with hosting provider. Yeah, yeah, we we talked a little bit about that. I think he's, he's trailing. So he's like the co founder the company.

Yeah. And yeah, he's the, I think it's just a bunch of just two. They're two nerds or two tech guys. Yeah, a couple audio nerds. Yeah. And they so when you tell him when you say hey, I want to do it's kind of refreshing because usually the context that we have with companies like if I contact a hosting company, it's usually like, let me get you in touch with the tech people. Right? This is like the whole they took the company to clean feet is they're nothing but tech people.

So you immediately get a you know, answers to questions. That the like, they was telling me a little bit about the difference. Everybody's getting into this game now. And so there's like squad gas, Riverside, all these people. And he was telling me the difference between, like what clean feed does versus what those guys do. Their thing is, is like audio synchronization like that their exact with their with keeping both sides in sync. Yeah. And like zero latency and all this latency. Yeah. Yeah.

Because they actually they're so solid that you can use it for things like was it what they call it where they do voiceovers and stuff in? In film lady ArtPlace. ADR? Yeah, additional? Weight is Yeah, additional dialogue recording. Okay, yeah, you can do it for stuff like that. I mean, it's, it's really, really solid. And they do during the pandemic, they did all this stuff with like, film people. And it's, I don't know, it's it was just really good. That was a good

connection. We talked to him. For what, two hours less than 10 leaves. Yeah, and well, and 30 minutes of that was spent trying to explain to the server that any mustard or mustard seed in the food would kill him. Yes. He said it's not okay to give somebody else an EpiPen. I was prepared to jump over. I know. I said right away since you got an epi pen. Yes, I can Pulp Fiction you right. And this is no no to that, if that happens is way too late. Oh, said yeah, I should catch that immediately.

myself. Oh, okay. First, I don't have breathing problems. I'm coming over the tape. Me too. I'm like we need this guy in our life. No, good. That's no good at the podcasting. 2.0 meet up with the band for Marcis and Buspar guys, in kind of spearheaded, as that

was great. It was great getting to see uh, you know, getting to see all the hosting companies come together and, and sort of declare, declare that, you know, we're there their dedication to open RSS and they really know we're gonna, we're gonna work together to further the medium, and that content was great. It was really nice,

outstanding, the only thing I would add. But there were still a lot of, if not explicitly, the implied, like, we have to do this to make apple and Spotify see what we're doing and start complying with the standards. I just wanted to add, you know, there's also a lot of, let me just use the word uplifting we can do have the current apps that are already The producing this. So, you know, we need to we need to lift these apps up, educate customers, listeners podcasters that there are apps

and they're mature enough. You know, I mean, it's a very personal thing, obviously. But at least someone needs the experience. And you know, at this point is like if you if you have Chiclets, you know, subscribe, or listen, you know, it's not sufficient just have a podcast index logo. You know, I think we should be promoting the apps. So I was talking to Kevin and Tom and Dan Benjamin about this yesterday at lunch. And we're talking about the app

specifically. And they, you know, they were looking at a few of them. And, like, Kevin was saying, he's a designer by trade. And so he was like, you know, he said, The problem here with, with the, with adverse Syria, caster that with the, with the current crop of 2.0 apps, and he said, they're, they're technologically sound. But you pass a point where the technology of the app is, is just not that. It's just not. Oh, man, hold on a second, Dave. And so hold on, Dave, when you

said you reach a certain point. Okay, do I drop it? Yeah. Okay, you reach a point where the, where it's not the technology, that's, that's holding the app back. It's not the technology, that's the problem. Because the technology of the app is sound, it's the design, it's the UI, in in, that's actually much harder in the technology, because, like designer and good, good UI design is really hard. It's subtle. There's, you know, that's, that's a really that's a

real difficult thing. And we just spent some time talking about how hard it is. And this is not this is true with all of open source, all of open source that you can tell the difference between an open source app, and, and one that's not usually in the Polish of the of the UI, and the subtlety of how it interacts. And it's just because the is because designers, they don't, they're not going to work for free. I mean, there, you got to pay those guys that are good at it. And they're not, there's

not a lot of design help in the open source world. So like, I think some of what, hold back. Let's take an app like pod verse is, it's technologically so solid, but that it's like, I'm afraid Mitch would have to spend a bunch of money to get a designer to come to come in and like reorganize the way that it functions in order to make it feel like like an app. See here in this for the prom, I'm that I'm struggling even even now.

Let me help you out. Let me jump in here for a second. So first of all, there's also a time factor, it takes time to create an app, go back and look at the first iPhone, the first podcast app. And you know, how has that evolved? And of course, it's not, you know, one person just doing all the work himself like most of the app developers within the group, but they have entire team. So there is just time, the feedback loop. The benefit, of course of, and I don't think it's open source,

per se, I think it's really just maturity, things take time. If you don't have a designer, it's going to take much longer for you to even get to a point where it's usable. And I'll add to that, I think, who are there's probably 3000 artists, I know who I can reach out to who do art work for no agenda every single every single show, some of those people are actual designers. And I'm quite sure that a number of them would be more than happy to hook partner up with somebody. And maybe they

have a little bit of experience. Maybe they have a lot, maybe they have none. You know, these are the types of things I'm looking for. Maybe we'll get some new ideas. That doesn't necessarily have to mean that someone has to go out and hire a designer, we've just this is a good point. I've just never, never thought of going and looking for them and putting out the call which I'm going to do and let's see. Let's see who shows up and anyone who's interested. You know, just shoot

off a mail. They'll just go to podcast index dot social and request an invite we'll send you one. The problem might have been maybe I'm misunderstanding is just because the apps aren't mature. I don't think is a reason to not highlight them and show people where it's going. I think there's a lot of that, well, the apps not really good yet. Well, that's also not true. Some of these apps are different. I personally find some of the standard like Apple, I'd find boring. You know, it's

like, I like these new things. They're a little funky, maybe I'm different. But if we don't expose people to it, and you have to show both sides, because I could say the exact same for hosting companies, a lot of them are implementing things in ways that don't make sense to me. So it's you UI UX is on both ends of the spectrum is as long as and then put it ahead. These are these are experimental, these are new, but here's where you can see what's working. Now what's coming. I mean, this

education has to happen. And and I made that point during that dinner, like, that's where the real education of podcasting 2.0 will take place is the hosting companies, they educate their people all the time. Yeah, we typed the context. So the context of the conversation was essentially because because somebody you know, some of them don't want to name it said, we know. Y'all really need to do some, some thinking about this, because nobody cares. Nobody

cares about this stuff. Nobody cares about these features, all this kind of thing. It was like well, incident that led to the to the idea of you know, it's just a naysayer. And then that led to the discussion of Whoa, you don't delete the listeners don't care. Because they don't know they're supposed to. Like, if once you once you see something like pod verse, pop up a live stream notification, you're like, I don't ever want that to not be on my phone anymore. Right? Right. But I've

never had it. And so like, if you had to describe it to me, six, you know, six years ago, if you'd describe to me, what about would you want a live notification to pop up in your phone when the podcast went, you know, goes live? I'd been like, maybe? I mean, it wouldn't have been like, super, I would have been just kind of hohem about it. But then when I see it in action, and I can actually do it. It's like, yeah, I want that forever. I want all of my apps to do that. And there's every

one of the podcasts and 2.0 apps. Every one of them has a feature that I feel like I can't I now can't live without. But I know that I wanted it before. Yes. Then that led, you know, and so then that leads to Okay, well, how do you get in the next step of that this domino, thing is how do you get people to try these things out? And then you know, so that was we were

flipping through and looking at a bunch of different apps. And it's like, well, this, you know, I want to convince a friend of mine to use, such as app, it's like the, the people are vain. And that first impression is like, they don't want to give it a chance. It just is all in this context of like, where's How do you? How do we get rid of all these sort of vanity adoption problems? Well, but But it's, it's all bullshit. And I'll tell you why.

Because I've lived this movie. I lived it for five, six years. This is ridiculous. I got a right click and copy a thing. What's XML? Like? No one will care. RSS means nothing. This doesn't make any sense to you who wants to listen to people in a soliloquy? I've heard it all for five, six years, and it took a really long time. By the way, we wouldn't eat here's what

could possibly happen. Now, someone like NPR, PBS. So there could be an entity that just decides to start using one of these and I mean, I don't see you if I were if I had NPR is money. I would you know, and I was smart, not like the Pocket Cast deal. You know, I would whip up something that just worked for my NPR podcast with all these features. You know that anything like that can happen. Podcasting works in these very, there's there's something that just goes viral

about them and it's typically content related. I'll just remind everybody that podcasting was the darling of the media. It was beautiful. This is the future money was flowing. And then we got YouTube Facebook, Twitter and no one as there was it No, it's a shit about podcasting Facebook. Okay. I'm not kidding. It really it really was a YouTube now he's got to be

all video that no one cares about audio. It's video now. In fact, I allowed myself also to be persuaded and we even changed the name of the company from pod show to me vo to pander to The venture capital and the industry. Oh yeah, we do video. Now, of course, we actually doing video podcasts which are quite impossible with storage and bandwidth. And it was just the whole thing was nuts. But it was also a mistake. And then in was it 2016? What brought podcasting back to the

forefront? Was cereal. And the reason why was a beautiful confluence of events, where we'd all just gotten to Oh, yeah, let's just add the Netflix into that. Oh, my God, we don't have to wait. We're streaming. We're binging. It's great. We're binging five seasons of House of Cards and just just binging and then all of a sudden here was something granted murder mystery. True Crime. Very compelling topic. People like

that. So it was content. And the fact literally that you had to wait a week, this would this was a whole new feeling for people. Oh, boy, I can't get it. I have to wait. Oh, I can't wait. And that catapulted podcasting. Back into the stratosphere. You've got to give Joe Rogan his props. Who's who helped many people start their podcasts. But this is so it's all content driven? Yeah. It's funny, because that the talk the toll that you and I

did, I guess it was God, it feels like an eternity ago. Now. I guess Wednesday? Yeah, that's what we did. Then. I used screenshots of a lot of the different apps. So we will talk about and like that. It was, that was good. Yeah, we talked about features. Okay, here's a feature. And then here's a screenshot of that of an of the this feature in action in an app. And I've gotten a bunch of feedback of people saying, they really appreciated seeing those screenshots, because they're

not, they're not using the apps. And so they're like, oh, it kind of understood the concept of the person tag. But when I see it up on the screen, in the app, I'm like, Oh, now I get it. Now I get why that's a good feature. And that's, so they're all these features arrived, these features. These features are exciting to people. But you can't, I guess you can't, you can't force it. You can't force it. But you have the hosting companies have to

show the other side. They're not. They're doing things but they're not. It's not in their DNA, to say here's, you know, however they need to communicate it. I don't think anyone's really doing that. Well, the pot and you in what you always say the podcaster has to do it too. But the podcast is they need to find out about it, they need to know what supported, you know, the people get into a rhythm of flow, they don't want to I don't know what that is yet. So

there's that piece. And I just want to warn everybody, if you're still doing this to get Apple on board, it's it's misguided energy, they'll come if they feel like it. And if they don't, they won't, but it doesn't mean that it's has no reason to exist. You don't need those guys. You can make your customers very, very happy with the end people are out there learning. You know, Dave, we've been doing the numbers, everyone's been talking about the numbers, let's just let's

just be, let's just be 100 about this fire. There's very few active podcasts, it's really a much smaller number. Now there's a lot of things that update slowly over time, there's archival stuff, but in general shows that are lively, have communities that that follow along from week to week, or whatever it is, it's not a huge number. So there's plenty, plenty of room plenty of opportunity. I was so I was doing scrolling through some sessions yesterday, just

trying to find let's try and find stuff. Interesting things and also stuff to mock and laugh at. So there's there's equal amounts of both here, which is great. So, but I went into a session from Rob Walsh at Lipson and he was saying it like, the beginning of the session was about how the 4 million number the 4 million plus number in podcasting is is bullshit. I'm like, okay, whatever. So then he says, but his point was is

pointless valid. He's like, you know, if you think you're going up against 4 million podcasts, you're really not going up against 4 million podcasts you're going up about you're gonna really against about 480 Something 1000 Because that's the number that's consistently in the 90 day range roughly. I think that's it.

If you start pairing that down, you start getting more specific and you exclude radio shows that rebroadcast weekly sermons from churches, if you start, if you really pare the number down, you can get that down to about 150,000 shows that are actively publishing on a regular basis. Those are those are yours. So, you know, don't think of it this way. But if you wanted to think of it this way, those are your competitors. You know, like, if you're trying to get into pocket, that's fair, okay. Fair

enough. Fair number. That, that shows you that those that number, you know, the ecosystem is actually is actually quite small. Yeah. In in, so just a little bit of voice can make a big can move the needle Allah like you, you, you highlight on no agenda each week, you highlight a different podcast, app 2.0. App. And we know from the people from the from the app developers manage and Steven B. And we know that when when, when you do when you mentioned, one, it moves the needle, I mean,

they get new users. I mean, you know, like, sometimes a large amount of new users. So just just having, you know, talking about it in the podcasters, podcasters, have to have to understand this. If you tell your audience, you know, I really want you to go try out this app, because it's a really great experience to listen to our show, they will do it. Yep.

They will do it. And and, and it does, it makes a difference. And then that, that brings these apps up, it allows them to get to get bigger, have more of more, you know, opportunity, like they have premium they get that gives them more money to do better design is just it. It all starts with the message just like it does for value for value. Well, and yes, it does. And now this is a question of how on my list, we are almost at episode 100 199. So I'm going to ask you

this question. Now. Since it's been, we've been doing this almost two years. I think this this is this is a big thing that people overlook this. And you know, there's always ongoing discussions about value for value versus tipping versus no one sends me any money is, you know, on and on and on and on. It's like we we've we've seen all the reasons people want to fail. I want to ask you, Dave Jones, for the past two years, how has your value for value experience been?

That was not the question. I thought you were going to ask me, that's maybe a very hard question for you to answer. But when we started this program, this show we started the, the project, you know, I convinced you and you had it, you took no convincing, I said dude will do this value for value. That's how we stay independent. It'll work you watch. So I think we both agree that it worked, because you know, we hold our head above

water. But in general, just you know, the whole from beginning to end from because we've we started asking for Pay Pal, we've actually, as the first project I've been involved in transitioned over to full on value for value SATs, not full on because we still have monthlies and big and we do have supporters who come in with like a $500. Pay Pal for a month, which is great, but it's all still value for value, have

never having done it. I'd like to kind of hear about your experience and your experience with it. I think my experience it. There's an analogy here that I can't quite put my finger on but and maybe it'll come to me in a minute. But the I think my experience is that it took a while to understand. Like it took probably months, maybe a year before I finally understood the full, like the full scope of what it meant. Because you get the vet value for value is about

is about the full feedback loop. And you said that from the beginning, but sometimes it just takes a while to get it in your to like see it to visualize it. Now I can explain value for value and it does. Effortless. I just I can just do it to anyone who asks, I can give them the full rundown of how of how the concept works. But in the in in the early days, I was like well, it's about it's about giving your content away, and then asking your audience to give you back the value. It's about not

putting it behind a paywall. It's about it's about not care. hoping the prize or I would always just get sort of get focused in on one aspect of it and lose the big picture of what of what the whole thing is. And that's, I think the maturity of my understanding of what value for value is. Took a long time, because now, I'm finally not, I don't get it pigeonholed anymore

I can, I can just see the whole thing. It is the, because people will say it like it also what, you know, I people don't value my content, or, you know, I can't just give away my content or the you know, there's, they're saying, they're essentially saying that they're that they don't feel valued when they don't, if they don't charge something, or if they don't have control over the price. But that's, you, you never the

problem there is you never had control over the price. This, this is the thing that people that people miss, I believe, is that they think that by putting a price on something, or putting it behind a subscription, or whatever, they think that that means that they are in control of how much people pay them. But that's, that's, that's not true. You, you're still not in control, because people just won't buy your product. They're just, they're just not you can have a lemonade stand and charge

$1 per cup. And think, well, I'm now in control of the pricing. And I'm now I can, I'm controlling my income, but you've missed the, the the 47 people that come by and buy a cup of lemonade. That's great. But what about the 125 people that just walk by never do it because that dollars too much? Or, or they they walk by in the opposite end of that they walk by and they say this like $1 for a cup was like that must not be

very good. And I keep walking by like your, your, your exclude your desire for control over what you over the over the value proposition is eliminating, you're putting on your future potential earnings. Because you're excluding people. You think you're not but you are.

It's, it's it is a different frame of mind. And I mean once you can kind of get over that and it is big and but you know, talk to some people talk to Jen Briony, she told me what she's doing per episode, she and her husband are not nomads, they they love staying in hotels all over the world, they'll stay for a month or two. And you know, she's, we start her on value for value divorce actually coached the hell out of her for as long as I can remember. And, and she's and there's a number of

people who are doing it very successfully. We you have to get over it. You just have to erase the thinking. It's to me, it's, it's another part of like, Rancors. You know, the the only is like, Oh, this you have to be on the chart. You have to be number one. It's none of its true. None of it is true. We this show is not even submitted to Apple podcasts. You can't get me you have to subscribe manually. It's not there. And yet, all you have to do is go ahead.

We have 200 we have 250 subscribers. The only subscriber count I know is overcast, because he puts that in as user agents so we can see it. We have 250 people that subscribe to us on overcast, overcast is purely dependent on the iTunes directory for the source of its podcast feeds. We're not in app in it in the Apple podcast directory. So that means 250 People just on overcast just on overcast, I copied and pasted our feed off of podcasts index.org and put it copied it

and pasted it into overcast. That's the only way to do 250 People in 2022 Yeah, that's hilarious. That cracks me up to no end. And that tells you how how far people are willing to go to get the content that they want and how much they value it.

You know, the this is going to be a weird analogy. But for me because I've been doing value for value for so long, it's second nature, but the experience of trying something and then it works something that you are convinced or you you have a bias an unconscious bias because you know you think oh you have to be number one you got to be on the charts you got to have you know this many downloads you got to get to ad networks, whatever it is, or, or, you know, yeah, easy for you

to say, but drive them curries. So lots of people want to give you money. Okay, no. But for me, I had this type of experience not too long ago. And it's like, you don't really realize how prayer works until you try it and something works. You know, it's like, oh, okay, hold on a second, there may be something to this. Yeah, that that kind of surprise. Experience is what you get with value for value when you try it. And when you when you ask, and people, it's amazing every single time. I

mean, I'm blown away. When Marco gives us $500 a month, and like that, that still blows me away. That I guess the biggest voice, the biggest voice this bid, there's been really vocal about, you know, I won't say it's anti value failures, just like about giving against giving away your content for free, is the tenor Campbell guy. And he's just, you know, he just rails about a can give your way your content for

free listeners suck. They do. They just want you know, they don't really have been trained, they've been trained not to give you an you know, not to value you. And that kind of in that's Understand, understand that you would get there. Because when he, when he explains it, I'm like, Oh, sure, I understand how you're thinking would land you at that place. But the value for value mindset, the read, you've never mind, my responses, you've

never tried it, you've never actually tried it. Because the big to me, the biggest issue with value for value is that you are let you, you, the content creator are telling the world that you value your content. You're saying you're expressing to the world, how much you care and value your content. And that lets them pick up on it. If you give it away for free, and you never ask, and you never tell how much value that you think

the content is worth. How do you expect them to know? Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's another part of the it's a little frustrating that we don't need to worry too much about this. But you know, it's just like, well, we need this to get really adopted, we need adoption. We need to have this people talking. And that's just not how it that's just not how it will ever work. You know, that type of instant gratification adoption. You know, YouTube spends millions of dollars to promote their YouTube

page, Twitter, everyone's trying to do something. They have massive scale, but it's like 10 things take time. They just do and podcasting is it's just historically because it's decentralized because a lot of moving pieces have to come together. There is no shortcut. And look at how far we've come

from two years ago. Two years ago ah, this is just some crazy nut job Republican right wing thing for the Curry's doing he trying to get to where we are today where we have apps and hosting companies and you know, multiple wallet providers jumping in, you know, so it's working, but I don't it's just it's just irritates me to be like, well, you know, Joey it's still the will Appalachians apples to apples. They don't. Yeah, they don't feel like I feel like this is the down the downslope of the of

the emotional roller coaster of this conference. Where it's like, we're just, yeah, we're just bitching about podcast consulting is really what this all is. Yeah. You said it from day one. You're like, you're like you like half the people hear just podcasts, consultants and 100 per century is like Oh can we get a booster grip? Please tell me got a booster grab? No. Yeah, it's just inevitable that after like three or four days of this, you're just like, oh, oh my god. Can we please stop

talking about monetization strategies? And you know, all this bull crap? Yes. Yes. But I mean, we're talking about some tech stuff. Yeah, I did want to say that just to wind it up. It's a very human trait. People are always looking for ways to explain why they will fail. You know, this. This is just it's very typical. It's an I understand And but I just want I'm just going to keep

hammering it that we continue to. I love it just we need to lift all voices, lift all apps, lift everybody up, make sure you're promoting everybody else that's, you know, in these charts and Rancors they just have no place in the New International lifestyle of value for value. I wanted to give some feedback I was looking at this is tech stuff before. I would hope that the road was here. I were they not I? I mean, I don't know if they are I haven't. Is there? Is there

another floor that I should be walking? Have this come up? Are you looking for the expo hall? Maybe that's well, maybe that's what I was looking for? Yeah, we're all the world of booth, like the the bevy of booths or I'm afraid to walk through there now after what I said yesterday on the show. Yeah. Punch me. They may ask you to leave politely Yes. Because I'm harming others. Mr. Curry,

can we have a discussion, please. So I have, I have one piece of feedback for for road on there otherwise excellent road caster Pro two years my only request to date. So they have a channel, a separate channel for the pads. And I like the pads because I can, you know, hit my bell when I don't have my bell. You know, it's muscle memory, right? So these are big, rubbery things. So, you know, it's like, I can hit that and in my hand knows where to go. And that's, and I

love it. The problem is, there's no apparent way to apply any processing to that channel. So any so here and this is what I mean, I'm going to give you an example. So this is coming from the pad boost. This is coming from my own system running through a process channel. Boost. Boost, I don't hear that much right there actually, is not a great example difference

that I hear it's not a great example. Okay. But because you don't have compressor limiter, you can't really push it and push the quieter spots don't get, you know, brought up automatically. It's just an oversight, obviously, you know, it's like I you know, yeah, we need to be able to process that one too. That's the only thing I need rode. Okay, all right. How about you make a clip make a clip of that and put it on put and send it to

road this is okay. All right. We got we got to do this. We've got to take the the awful air horn thing. Yeah, whatever that whatever that is. Yeah, we've got to hide it into Hilah pad with with a magic no magic number this fires it. Yeah. gotta you gotta send us boost until you hit the magic number and then you get the proper you get that thing. And we're not going to tell it. Just get a good one there. That was great. I'm getting better. I'm getting better. Okay, so we should I was

talking to Mike from IV, IV AP History iv.fm. And he was bringing up that we should he was like, Hey, I'm think we should rebroadcast pod pings. Like and when he means the so he's like, you know, they're not at not all the hosting companies are doing it yet. And so there's no there's always a large portion of the feed of episode discovery that we is like if I just if we discover an episode faster than y'all do, we could send that back out into pod paying, if we just discovered it

organically you know, through feed polling. We could send that out onto pod paying. And then everybody gets the benefit of seat of us of seeing it in a bit and so maybe through that process, everything would be faster so we talked it out for

for a while. In a month the first concern there is that you're going to get into a pod pain circle then you're gonna get into an endless loop because he knows I'm gonna see the pod pain come through find the find an episode rebroadcast the episode and it's just gonna be like, you know, you get you're gonna DDoS the whole pod paying network, get get feed, that's not gonna get fit in and fix that part. But then the other thing is you don't necessarily want if people find it at

different times. Let's just say that we're polling IVs polling. I don't know who else would pull a list Okay, let's say Pocket Casts. I think they run their own index. internally. Let's just say that they pole and we get them on board. A few different different people in their in their rebroadcasting these things I think what we need, I think it will work. And I think it's a good idea. But I think what we need and I need to talk to Alex and Brian about this is a, perhaps a reason

code. And the reason code would be something like found. So it would indicate, here's a pod, it would say, here's a pod paying, right? For a feed update. But it's not. But this feed update didn't is not canonical from the source of the feed. It's It was discovered organically, somewhere else within the piping network. And so when when I see a pod pain that comes through with a reason code of have found or discovered or whatever this

thing is, I would know that I could treat it differently. I would know that I now, okay, now, this is just somebody else telling me they found something too. I can look. I know, I know, number one not to rebroadcast it, right, because to keep the circle from happening, but then I would also know that I could treat it a little bit differently. I could say, Okay, I may have already discovered this. So I can look at try to do some time stamp, caching, maybe a cooldown period, something

like that. I think it can work. And so in the benefit here is that we're never going to be able to reach all hosts. Right. So you get 4 million feeds. And we we can get a lot of of hosting companies on board. That's a really that's a really interesting idea. I think so. I think so. I mean, it would just help everybody would help everybody. Yeah. Because because you're gonna so some, some obscure podcast host in, you know, Bulgaria that,

that we just can't really get in touch with and contact. Then only maybe hosts, you know, 1000 feeds. This would we don't have to go that far like that. It lets us get the benefit of pod paying, without having to literally re onboard everybody. Hundreds of people. Yeah. I like that. Like, that's a cool idea. Yeah. There's no feedback. There's no end to the creativity in this shit. I love it. And I love it. So cool. Now, did I do we talk about Cameron? With IPFS

podcasting that he's looking to? He's got this idea of dynamic value blocks. Oh, no. So yeah. So his idea is and I think he has some code to okay, we might want to have him on pretty soon if he's ready for it and ready to talk about it. Okay. So, the idea is, since IPF podcasting.com has information about which node is hosting what which is, has has episodes pinned in it think he can also know when a node is used to to access an mp3 file. And the idea here is to dynamically change

the value block. So that that node then gets compensated with X amount determined by you know, whoever, for that session. So they get a split of the value for value payments. In this is to compensate the IPFS node for pinning the correct content, not just well, not just for the pinning, but for the, for the ACT for the for the download. Ah, that's really interesting. I like by the way, the pinning, pinning by itself is not a bad idea. Except, you know, you can't, you know, when we get to

like 100 nodes pinned it, that's a problem. But there's always going to be one or I, who knows, I don't know how to how, who knows how IPFS works under the hood. So presumably, every node would get a hit at some point. You know, who's big on is a big IPFS guy is Alberto from our node. He's running the big node I know there's a graph you can look at the graph you see this Oh, it's all connected to where's it Italy? No, where's it? Where's that node? Spain?

Yeah, they put the node in Spain Yeah, you can you can see it you can see the all the pinning going on. It makes a lot of sense. We were trying to get Cameron and Alberto oh now he's talking about it Yeah, let's do that. Yeah, like good idea. As they want to make this better and I agree because the IPFS I'm just I just get frustrated with it and maybe maybe maybe it's just me attorney not turned it off. You know, it turned out that the FS off on the download on the database download because it

just kept crashing all the time. And now it's just HTTPS only. But I need an image which need to talk to Cameron because I feel like I'm missing something if there will, if it's stable enough for them to do all this stuff with, maybe I'm just an idiot. No, now, there's definitely problems. I'm Will I'm okay. I'm okay, taking that on the chin. I'm alright. If it's me, it's me as I'm good. I'm just logging into my IPFS. Podcasting? No, it's me. He's

got some real graphs that oh, yeah, here you go. Like no agenda. It's it's almost like a ham radio repeater network where you can see it on the map, who's connected to who? And it's very interesting. And I guess this is ultimately why filecoin was was was created to function as some compensation for nodes. But you know, that's where they leave me. I don't know what the hell

is going on with that. But this seems, if, if we can make it work like, okay, a download hit from, from this node, you get, you get the split for the Listen of that episode, which is kind of fair, because you don't have to count bits and bytes transferred. We do it in minutes, because you get you're getting a split per minute, or you're getting a part of the booster gram. So hey, it's like web three. Oh. Nice. Yes, yes. Where it's Web. Web three, baby. The best

kind of web three is when it doesn't have any web three. And yes, the best one eautiful, this beautiful chat tag or some sort of chat functionality for the live item that this is, this is something that we have to do. Because we thought about the way the way that Steven, Steven B has been doing it by just off spec, adding a chat URL to the live attribute to the live item tag, right? So you say okay, well, here's, here's where the chat lives, and you can just go like

pull it up and an iframe or something. In that that's that met his needs. But we need to do this in a better way, a more official way. So that we can have, like social interact, we have multiple protocols, XMPP matrix, right, whatever. And it just feels like it's needs to be its own tag, instead of trying to put it into the social interact. I don't know why I can't give you I cannot defend that. I can't but that part. Oh,

yeah. Yeah, sorry. Yes, I, I will if we do it. I mean, there's there's, from what I understand, a lot of people are jacked on matrix, which is cool. I think Alex gates specifically is XMPP. So I just want to make sure that we don't overlook one or be too biased for another. So you know, it feels like most of the world that would be all in on this to get it bootstrapped is matrix and not XMPP. Z. That's me, this is completely unscientific. If you want to meet pod podcasters where they are now, I

would say that it's actually IRC. Because I are seen, yeah, could see. Okay, think about the landscape as it exists right now. It's probably the three biggest live streamers in the podcasting world that I'm aware of. I'm NME pure podcasters. Not YouTube, Twitch stuff. Pure podcasters is probably you with no Gen Z stream. Twit with their, with their live stuff, accidental tech, they also have a big live presence. All three

of those, all three of those are IRC based on their chat. And so I don't please, I would like somebody else to tell me who I'm missing because I know there's gotta be other live streamers out there and I would like to know what they're using. But so that's that's the if you're going to meet with them where they're at. Now what they're currently doing, we would support our see first and then add something else. I like that a lot. I like it as a third option. You're right.

It's our it's already working. And it kind of sets us up to avoid all the you're doing it with the wrong thing bit because now everyone will think we're doing it the wrong way. Yeah, but we're going that's a very interest Seeing how many of course that's what lit is already doing that. Yeah, and there's got to be, I mean, IRC is so old, that there's got to be lots of libraries out there that are

available that will be easy to integrate. If a chat if, if an app wanted to give full on integration, right in the app, where you know, that you can get, you can swipe over to the chat window, or the chat screen from so, like, I like I like yeah, you're you're swiping back and forth from well, that's okay. This is a great example. By the way Harv had says Twitch is also IRC based only obfuscated more. Blair Yeah. Because here's the here's what happens. Oh, this is

very interesting. So the no agenda chat has been around for 13 years I think. And it was initially just an IRC channel and it was always there for you know, for for live during the show during the during the shows, but the no agenda chat is active 24 hours a day, and the no agenda chat added there. Oh, the stream I never came up with that even the chat wasn't my idea. But there's a community that lives in the no agenda chat all the time. I mean, I'm logged in most of the time and take a

look see what people are saying. That's a really good I like I as again, it's like everybody will say we're using the wrong stuff. That's that's the way to go. Then you know, you're on the right path. Yeah, it's my political. I like it. By the way meet us also said I think we have 2.4 120 400 subscribers subscribers on what was it? Podcast? Attic. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Bad people. People are listening. That is he found that out. Is it? Oh, no, no,

I don't know when someone tells me something like that. I just take it as truth facts. Now. Anyway, we're global. We've gone global. So we talked about Ellen URL mafia for a moment just to understand where we are with those guys. When you say Ellen URL mafia, you're referring to the lazy ass bitches. Yes. The ones just like the eath maxis? Yes.

So you call it you call them lazy ass pitches, which, which allowed allowed me to say that the Ellen URL mafia telegram channel is the lab is the lab of where Ellen URL is built lazy as pitches yay. Yes. By the way, they take that as a badge of honor. I know I love that you called them there. Yeah, they were I saw it. Yes. So a little bit of history when I first started looking at value for value in a layer two, and I

didn't know what layer two was. The first two things I looked at were LSAT, which is an API layer, payment authorization token that has to be paid for. And I spent a lot of time with Ellen URL, or specifically Ellen bits. And I was fascinated by these extensions that they have, which also included tipping, and

some other things. And, and but you know, every way I looked at it, you still had invoices that need to be generated, and it was above my technical hat, or something I couldn't just do myself is to be, which means if I have to set up something on an on a web server, then no, I'm not gonna do it. And then I found key send. And for me, as a broadcaster was like, Oh, this makes so much sense. You just spewing it. And if someone doesn't have their receiver on tough luck, you know. So it made

a lot of sense for me as a broadcaster. But Ellen, you were always we look, I looked at extensively, I didn't see it being as easy as key send. But it was definitely up there. And so from a technical level, and you hadn't looked at any of this stuff back then you were you were building the index while I was doing this stuff. And now that you have a much deeper understanding of the technology than I do, is you ln URL viable in any way.

In your specific you're specifically talking about and I want to be Elon Euro P, I guess right? He yell in URL PE is what is what is it? It is viable for booster grams, only. It will never work for streaming payments, it just can't. Right, it can't work that you're you're going to do streaming payments. So to describe this for Ellen URL is a really easy thing to understand. So it's like putting

a web server in front of your node. So that because what the way, the way lightning works by default, is it's invoice based. So the way it's supposed to work is I want Adam to pay me 10 bugs, I generate an invoice for 10 bucks, I send that invoice to Adam. And he in he his wallet pays it, and then it settles.

That's the way lightning is was in the beginning and it still operates by default, then later, there is this need this need arose for, for invoice list payments, where I could send, I could send money from my node to another node without having to have that the destination node generate an invoice beforehand. Because it's like, that's the way it is with with Venmo. I can just Venmo you some money, I don't have to have you generate an invoice and send it to me. You can but you don't have to.

That's so when that was developed that the original incarnation of that was key send in key send is uses uses on the fly, sort of dummy invoices. So when a key send payment comes in, it just receives it as a sort of like a dummy invoice type of thing that it just generates just to have something just to have a hash. The Ellen URL was a variation of a solution to that problem. Where you can request you can say I want to send you a payment, and it will generate one on the fly.

it'll generate an invoice on the fly. Basically just like having a little dude who sits there all day waiting for people's money, that dude hits an invoice sends it to you and then you pay. Yes, yeah. So I can I can send you I can send you money without you having to be involved. But there's in order to make that happen. Your node, the destination receiving node has to have a web server in front of it right in some capacity, so that it intercepts the request for the payment talks to l&d and

says generate an invoice. Once the invoice is generated. It hands it back to you, then you pay it. So that means every time you pay somebody through ln your RP, there's a web server and a web request involved before the payment settlement happens. So now you've just increased the workload on the node by double, and not to mention, because I've said I've set this up, you know, not to mention, you got to poke holes in your firewall, do reverse proxy, get a certificate, make sure their

certificate renews. Yep. You know, this is shit that I did once and like, and then it does certificate Automatic Renewal didn't happen. I'm like, fuck it. I'm not even looking at it anymore. I'm so sick of it. It's a fair. It's a great seeing. It's a great solution to a problem. But it doesn't. We don't really work for this. Yeah, we don't really have a problem. Well, I agree with Roy, just the solution is just use key send, I mean, keys and exists to solve this exact problem.

I think what's happening here, if I can just take a guess, is ln URL. I mean, people are waking up to what we're doing. And they're waking up and saying, Oh, these guys are claiming some victory over tipping. We invented that a long time ago. What the hell you should ditch you should be using Ellen URL, you should be doing this. Yeah, it's much easier to put an Ellen URL invoice into my into my feed. Oh, okay. You go

do that. And, you know, and they're just saying this. And I conclude this because no one actually looks at what we're doing known as actually understood the importance of the streaming sites per minute. They haven't looked into that at all. But above all, they believe that just by telling us we should do it, that all of a sudden apps and hosting companies are going to do it. Yeah, it's just an arrogance. Based on being ignorant, I guess.

But I'm not doing it. And I'm not going to spend any effort on it because I Because I'm convinced that it was just a waste of time. Can I ask your question though? Amp? Yes. What is the difference between key send and amp? And should we be looking at supporting that? Is amp is already supported? It's already in the spec. It's in the spec, but I don't know what it does. I don't know how it works and why aren't we using it?

Well, amp is automatic multipath payments. Uh huh. So it's the idea that you can split up a payment and and have an have like Sophie ever an invoice for for a payment for 10,000 sets a split that up into four different batches of 2500 SATs and send each one of those through different routes. If it's a way to get past channel channel liquidity limitations, where you can say, Okay, I've got I've got things spread out amongst multiple channels. I don't have a single channel that

can hold the whole they can handle their entire payment. So I'm going to batch I'm going to I'm going to split it, and then it'll reassemble it on the other side. So the problem with AP is that it's the support for it is so spotty, that you get payment failures all the time. Oh, yeah, that's okay. So it's not widely adopted enough. I get it. Yeah, and I'm not sure if this is where I'm getting off this where I'm getting out of my knowledge. I don't know if see

lightning supports it or not. It may still be l&d only All I know is when you try to do app you just cross your fingers and hope it works and half the time it doesn't so so it's it's technically in the spec but nobody's brave enough to use it yet.

Right but it's something that you it's a bit you flip on the sending side Yeah, and it's got to be supported it's got to be supported on the sender and the path and the and the receiver everybody the whole the whole chain down the line has supported Yeah, okay good okay, well steady a steady ahead, Captain Baynes. Steady she goes, she goes. We want to thank some people. Yeah, let me talk about the live booths that have been coming in the booster gram since we've been chatting appreciate that

everybody value for value, you're soaking in it. This is this whole program this whole project is run on people who are interested in the project and a part of it just looking in the sidelines they get value from it can't determine what their value is or why they see value but they got it and they're sending it back. That's all we ask for time talent treasure and the booster grams are some real treasure. Let's see we have here while we've been alive in the lit 4567 from see Brooklyn. I

think that's Carolyn. All right. Here we go. She says give me the horn. I should have known that was coming. This is the only episode we're gonna do though. No, no, we're gonna hide it. We got five sevens, the super super striper booths from Mike Newman. I like this ship. He says okay. Chimp 13,579 says boosting saves lives Sure does. Boost them we have E podcaster. 3000 SATs Thank you, Adam and Dave for leading the charge. So podcasters like me can easily be part of the value for value

model gold podcast, podcast. Sir Spencer, big row a ducks. 22222 Yes, 22,222. That's a super row of ducks. And he says I'm so grateful for the value for value, lifestyle and mentality. It is an abundance mentality. Most of the people who don't get it are stuck in a scarcity mentality. And they can't see or quantify what V four v brings. When we open ourselves to value for value. We have received value in ways that are hard to quantify networking meetups, lifelong friends gifts in the

mail. Oh, yeah, I love those. It's not as simple as just SATs and Pay Pal donations, it goes much deeper and it changed my life for the better. Right, amen. Right on. That's, that's solid. You know, honestly, that's a great way to look at it from an abundance mentality versus scarcity mentality, it's great, it's a great way to look at it because I can, I was thinking this morning, of all the strong friendships that that

I can speak for myself. And for you, too, I'm sure all the strong friendships that I did have created now in in the podcasting world. And that's, that's value for value. Because we, we, because we're giving it away, we're giving away our value. And the value that part of the value we're getting back, or the salt or the solid relationships with great people. Exactly. It's me, you can't buy that you that you cannot put a price on that.

It's like no agenda. That means especially with the meetups, with people who just organize and hang out together this lifelong friendship to come out of that. And just in a community gets built around the media property. I know wherever I am anywhere in the world, if I've, if I have a need for something, if something's going on, all I have to do is just you know, hop on either Twitter or Well, preferably no agenda, social,

even telegram group said, here's what I need. And immediately I have someone who knows someone who could hook us up and do something. You know, I feel that I feel that way too. I've got some so many friends you know, friendships of that are now on like, signal and podcasts and social and I know that I could probably be anywhere in the in at least in the country, and somebody would be close enough to help to help out with something. I mean, like it just and that's not you can't put a

tie. You can't put a price on that. Which is why I know that there's designers out there for the apps and stuff Spencer says Stop talking like this is getting me misty eyed. Okay. Blueberry 2222 We tell people they are denying themselves half of our show by using Apple because they won't see the six to seven new pieces of art we make for the chapters

salutely Absolutely. Blueberry again 17,776 Here we go. Hi, quote hi I'd like to take you up on your offer to get help onboarding to PC 2.0 but it's way easier to sit here and bitch about YouTube taking my content down. Exactly.

Okay, hello shot caller 20 is Blaze only Impala 400,000 SATs from anonymous, anonymous 400,000 SATs from anonymous and all that anonymous says go podcast a podcast a holy crap thank you that came for that came through curio caster so I guess that's working now 400,000 on the counter zeros Yeah 400,000 saying anonymous I want to thank that guy or that girl here we go that's that's it. Thank you. That's a big thank you. Thank you. There you go. That was

great. Triple force from yell dar pre boost. I listen to every episode of podcasting 2.0 and carefully followed development of the project. You helped me protect and develop podcasting in Kazakhstan. You're doing a very important project thank you and go podcast podcast. Hello Kazakhstan. Great success. This was a very bad Wow. The Kazuaki and Maya in the house. Nice. Yeah. All right. Well, so happy to hear that you know, BUSA some

more. Let us know what's going on in Kazakhstan. How can we help more importantly, how can we get an invitation to visit? How can we get cheap gas please? We want to jump in on those riots. It looks like fun. You guys did great work over there. And by the way, screw the CIA debasing you guys. Sorry about that. We're a hole sometimes. Then, let's see Dred Scott. Row of sticks. Oh, this was a test 1111 testing the booze and 100,000 SATs from Brando cellars

from the sleek podcast. Throwing that one for I'm Carla 20 is blade on am Paula haven't boosted in a while so I'm upping my boost game first time boosting with POD verse on mobile. Nice and nice, loving loving seeing that work. And it's something else just come in. Yes. And a millennial is listening with a super row of sticks. 11,111 and no agenda millennial says thanks for the RSS help Dave? Oh, yes, yes, yes. You're welcome. Yeah, wait, yeah. I've

been really slow to respond to emails, but I'm good. Because of the travel, but I'm getting I'm getting them as quick as I can. Sorry. I was a little delayed for a couple of days getting that fixed. But we got it. Excellent. All right, let's let's thank some of our donors that have come in during the week. Get a get some couple of big pay pals Marco. As usual Marco coming in with 500 Shot copper plates on him Paola and Buzzsprout $500. Wow. 20 blades on I am Paula.

Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Yes, that, that those those donations, seriously, pay the bills every month. And in rss.com. It also comes in on frequently with a with a huge PayPal, donation, those, those are the core of what we use to pay the bills and the SAS, always stay on the node. And so that we can fund channels and liquidity. We never take any of the sets off off the node they stay there.

I should just add one more thing. We Dave and I've both desperately been looking you know, we're very happy with with other node and wallet providers who are cropping up like Albie and the other people on the horizon. Because we knew, we know inherently that having everything centralized or one or two can have problems. And we've been maintaining a node that we've been paying for. And we're happy we did because some of the problems we've seen over the past few days with ln pay.

Luckily, I think we're able to migrate that to our node. So know that. And this is just temporary for us because we don't really don't like that. To be honest. If we don't like being in charge. We don't want money to flow. Yeah, we'd really don't want to do that. But we're making we knew something like this could happen. And damn, I'm happy we did it. Yeah. Which is to be more specific we pay we pay Tim each month for for a node. And as part of our, you know, our

hosting bills each month, we pay him for node. But we've never been it's always just been empty. Yeah, it's always for a year, it's just been sitting there doing nothing. And we were like, you know, one day and in a way, that's also because he's been offering his node for free. So I wanted to make sure that he got compensated and didn't feel like he was just doing stuff for people without getting any real value back and don't think you charge anyone anything at any point.

Yeah, I mean, it's it honestly. Honestly, Tim has been doing this as a charity. Yeah, for real for a long time. And we, we told him straight up, we were like, you know, Hey, you gotta get paid for this. I mean, we don't, this is not, you need to

be supported. And, you know, we asked her like, hey, you know, how much how much is your host cost each month, you know, and he told us, and we're like, what that's, that's what we're going to look at given you, we just want you, we want you to break even at least, then you can go make money off other customers and that kind of thing. But we want to at least make sure that

you're not doing this at a loss or for charity. Right. And so then that and that's, so then when all these problems happen, he was able to quickly migrate everything off of the broken node onto our node, and didn't really miss a beat and like it picked up pretty quick. Yeah, it did. But of course, the node has a different node ID. So some wallets tend to change. And that's something we got to figure out how we how best to migrate that.

Yeah, yeah. Well, we'll have a lot to talk about that. Luckily, there's not a lot of receiving wallets on there. So that's good. Yeah. But like, we have sovereign feeds in our block, which has to change. And Dame Jennifer, I think she needs she needs to change. And also, Alex, ping me this morning about Mark Hall. I think Mark Hall still saw that so as well, that needs to change. Yeah. And Mark Hall is going to be important pretty soon as we get

a DM tag rolled out. I talked about it the other day. Okay, he's super excited. You know, he talked to Richard Linklater, Sir Mark is, you know, he's a filmmaker. He I think he's also in some import export business, you know, maybe with Afghanistan or Panama. I'm not sure you know, one of my criminal friends. But he's a filmmaker and so he's very in tune for decades with the Austin film community. You know who Richard Linklater is right? He's like, he's very, very, very famous filmmaker.

I thought, Is that related to Art Linkletter? No. I'm thinking of different people. It's actually things link later. Let me just see, let okay, I'm misspelling it okay. Yeah, no, it's that's my fault. So a couple of his movies. So this and I'll tell you what he said. And he just released one called Apollo 10 and a half, which is on Netflix, I would advise it's rotoscoped. So it's something that's it's fun to watch. released this or renowned

No, no, that's that's Linklater released that Okay. Okay. Slacker. One of his movies. Of course. Ah, one of the boys life. Which one won the Oscar? No, they filmed over 12 year period. You remember that? And they had all the actors and they they filmed them throughout the 12 years the making this movie? Now you don't know what I'm talking about? If it's not a Marvel Cinematic Universe, you don't know what it is. Dave? Is that what it is? Yay. I'm better a

flag on the disproportionate use of force. Unnecessary roughness? Yes. Yeah. Oh, boy. Hood was called boy hood. That's what it was called. Okay. Boy hood. Yeah. Anyway, so he says, streaming world is all messed up. He says, we don't know where we're going to, we don't know. And where we're going to make money. theaters are broken. We can't get into them. No one cares. The big streaming companies no longer have the

budgets they had. So certainly when it comes to, you know, smaller independent films, which is classified as up like 10 or $12 million, we have no place to go. And Mark's been evangelizing value for value. Oh, yeah. Nice. So, you know, I'm okay. Maybe, although maybe we'll be able to get more into those circles. But documentaries, especially, I mean, and there's a lot of people making quote unquote, documentaries, you know, and I'm

thinking I love documentaries, I'm addicted to them. But there's a lot of people who make documentaries, you know, just for online, you know, for bitch shoot or whatever. These things are also valid. These are the these are great things to jam into a feed. I got a buddy who invests in documentaries, and he because he said there's some sort of is something under the under Trump. It may be in the that and early on. Tax cuts and Jobs Act the T

TCGA. Or whatever ja, ja. I think it was something to do with that, it changed the tax law where you could boost up the amount that you deduct for investing in a Hollywood film. You know, like, it really raised that. So it brought in a lot of investment, but with the investment in but the net like it became Netflix became the big buyer of all these documentaries, because they would just pay they would pay you cash, you could just cash out your long term earnings went

down, but you could just have an immediate buy. And then now with Netflix going down the tubes, damn sure that money is is becoming much more selective and less abundant. So it's it's one of those things where you come in you got the you've got this new player that comes in and just distorts the market. And now then they bail out essentially or they can that in now is left it sort of feels like it's left a hole a crater where as I guess what I'm saying is I understand what he's saying well,

here's here's what I did. Here's when I'm reading the reviews on the new Act are mixed is from 2018 According to those in the filmmaking business in all says CPA Fred Segal the new tax bill is not a good thing for filmmakers. It's muddled not as modeled as people think. There are some good parts and bad parts. Okay, so this is why we don't understand is this confusing? Yeah. Anyway, that'll be something that back to thanking people. I guess we got stuck there. Sorry about that.

And we've got we got some booster grams. We'll see here. 10,000 SATs for Chad Pharaoh. He says it's a hackathon not a hive Athan. Trouble looking for trouble. Let's see Mike Newman. One. C 1000. Is this these big row sticks? Just I can't even speak of 111,111 sat ball for that call out 20 blades on am bollocks anything over 100 ks gotta get gotta Oh, yeah. Yes. He's a slacker, boosted by the end of the show. Great to hear Dame Jennifer bring some sunshine to the boardroom. Go podcasting.

Yeah, podcast. It was great to have Dame Jennifer on the show a lot of good responses to that. That was a great episode. I had a lot of fun. George Orwell. 1111 SATs and he says I am Justin Trudeau. Yes. So George Orwell is Justin today. Just so you know. Normally, I routed something like 10 payments every minute from Ellen pay to podcasters. Since yesterday, I routed one payment per minute, the logs look okay, so I think it has something to do with an L with ln pay and their node. Yes, it

did. So first of all, thank you very much. George Orwell, Justin Trudeau. Because your channel to my my Umbral actually was good because I still was receiving boosts because you provided a path when there was trouble with the Elon pay bad of course, because I didn't notice shit was wrong. And I apologize for force closing on you as I was trying to figure it out. And he was so kind just wait until I had all my crap figured out and you just reopened another channel and he's everywhere. He's got

channels to all kinds of places that are showing up. So these are also people that provide tremendous value by putting their own liquidity up to help podcasting route and we really appreciate it. I mean, he's a he's a famous author and a prime minister at the same time, everywhere right, George Orwell back 1111 SATs again he says I noticed that your node Adam as an inbound liquid as an IT no inbound liquidity liquidity with zero base fee.

Yeah, that was he was looking at it when I was having problems. Okay, all right. So those troubleshooting message 8008 Boob donation from Chad Pharaoh. He says the SATs for fountain to animate a new agenda are probably from people watching on YouTube or in a tube and using fountains to send a boost. I hear this quite often on live shows and I think people are just used to using fountain descent SAS so that's what they

do. Interesting. 8008 boot donation from mere mortals podcasts from our buddy car and he says, I don't think creating a podcast for each project is great. sounds tedious all around an alternative idea. Have a special episode with splits where the four projects perhaps within? This is for the for the hackathon hackathon hackathon. Yeah, I obviously You can about that, too. I, that may be a good

idea. But you know what, we'll wait for the pimp manager, the pimp of the deed for the database, what is dame de Jennifer pimp? DE DE database? We'll wait for her to come back with her recommendations. But I think that's very valid. There's lots of good ideas, but it's in her capable hands. So she'll come back with questions or with ideas. We'll, we'll figure that and probably it's really going to come down to just not voting with money because that's just

too probably. Yeah. I think that's where I've landed. Arbor citadel 100,049 sets. Shot kala 20 blades on am Paula. Any says Where can i Since that's for the hackathon? I don't know. Yeah, we can't figure that out. Can I just interject real quick. interject, please. From Casta Matic. 333,334 SATs from Dred Scott boosting for the DJ air horn fine. He followed up with 22,222 to ask if I got the boost. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much.

Okay. The Teacher here warned that they had made my day. This sunshine in this room right now. Yeah, now what really happened is anonymous came in with 400,000 and Drib. It pissed me off because that's my that's my turf. Exactly. Yeah, don't mess with Batman. Don't Don't mess with Bruce Wayne. Se jet. And uh, Jean Everett sent us through fountaining sinister with 3333 sets and he's just says boost Yo yo, boost. Gene ever again. 33 333 through fountain he says Dame Jennifer's

the guest what? Boost boost gene from our mock Oh, that's from Aisha Armand friend. Yes. Yes, my were the hot the curry homesteaders. And Jean is very familiar with the curry family apparently. Okay, just just another another spooky, spooky. Spooky central a normal grid layer. James Crillon send 1001 SATs. He says so excited to hear that Pocket Cast is interested in podcasting. We know. Yes, they are. I love that app. And I would move back and

would move back to it in a heartbeat. Go podcasting go podcast. I would say it's not just Pocket Casts. I would say they're interested in the namespace across the board in general. Yeah, Wordpress, all of it. Yeah. We got to figure out how to get the podcast namespace. And Tumblr though, that that's that's a weird one. But we'll figure it out. We're going to see John cIgi 4761 SATs through the Python boot app. That's his new as his new app. He says Hi, Dave, and Adam and listeners of

podcasting. 2.0 Thanks to booster grams, I can actually say these value tokens have your name on them, unlike Fiat fund coupons, where defacing them with any message is a federal

offense, right? Anyway, I encourage anyone encourage anyone that isn't already listening to causality to visit engineer dot network, as we analyze what went right, and what went wrong, and we discover that many outcomes can be predicted or planned for and even prevented, and you too can decide if listener if the listener that called me a dreamy narrator was right or not. John is a dreaming narrator. He's got his he's got to sleep podcast. His sleep podcast is really

funny. Because he reads super boring engineering stuff. How cool like, like he'll read the manual from the original Apple TV, or something like that. Yeah, like that. Yeah, it's or chapter three of Fortran. You know, it's like sexy. That is a good way. That is a an example by John of how to do a in an in podcast advertising spot correctly through Busta Rhymes. Yes. Very good way. And I wanted to mention that we also hung out

a bit with John Spurlock. We did Greg was a super nice guy. And look out people he's building in an app. Oh, is he and he's got heat into it. Yeah, he said okay, so what is the way to do a man because you know, he's clearly a billionaire. One of those aren't like this. Oh, yeah. Cool. Dudes, you know, just like and you can see it. It's the subtle things of how he dresses like okay, I see you bro. I think he has a yacht. I'm pretty sure he has

yacht advice. The thing about the Super about the super rich is they always they actually they dress down they dress always the guy with the plastic bag. The rich guy. Anyway, so I said, Why don't you do it? Yeah, I'm working on it. I'm thinking about it as thinking about an app and how I'm going to do it and like, oh, man, okay, I'm interested to see what you're going to come up with. Sir Doug 5000 SATs. Sorry for the break, my wallet ran dry,

and it took a while to get around to refilling. Musa Oost. See 220 2222 for Macintosh. He says, Hey, gang, great episode with David, Jennifer, your conversation about about a boosted question about taxes got me thinking? Is there any code available to handle the accounting of all these flying sets? Oh, well, listeners don't have to manage at all, of course. But the podcasters really should I mean, I can throw the IRS a fiver and call it a day, because that would

cover all my support. But some people do actually create real amounts of SAS is there is is there. If there isn't anything, I might be able to jump in and work on it. I mean, I would say, if you want to jump in and work on anything, please do it. Because here's what we use is called balances Satoshis. And it's a node app that just pulls every transaction off of your

node. And, and puts it in dumps out a bunch of CSV files. And it makes a call to coin desk or coin Gecko or one of those to get the fair market value at the timestamp that those sets came in. And that's what you need. So you need for every, for every batch of sets that come into your node, you need to declare what the fair market value is in your local currency at that moment, so you need, you know, some API for historical lookups. And belsito Satoshis is fine. Except that our node is so huge

now. That it it's been run I've been trying to dump. May, June in July. From from it and it's been it's its own July now. We've been running for six days. They didn't have they call them dumps big, massive dumps. I literally was running node out of it was running no JS out of memory. Yeah, I had to upgrade the node to get more RAM. It's crazy. So no one was Bellway. No one was ever expecting this use case, obviously, or they had no idea or the no one thought through

it. And I have to say lightning labs doesn't seem that they care much about it. They're, they're doing database improvements. And I cannot wait for 15.1 because that's going to make evidently supposed to shrink the size of the database way, way, way down. And we really, I mean, we need that we need that value. I can't I can't get I can't export from I mean balance of Satoshis. If I just want to run a report for three days, takes 30 minutes.

Yeah, I mean, it's literally it's been running for almost a week. Yeah, just to export amounts of data. And it can timeout at any minute. We're breaking five oh, threes all the time. Macintosh, if you want to write a better accounting package, did you value for that? I'd send you value for using that. Oh, heck, yeah, I'd pay for it all day long, I'd add I'd pay $200 right now for that. Because it, it literally half the time just doesn't even work. Anyway, so it's more than just Just FYI,

to dig deeper on this for just one second. It's more than just the booster grams and stuff when you run your own node, which are running is a lightning node that can receive SATs, sin SATs, and forward SATs as a relay. And if you make if you have income from routing fees, yet, you know that's got to be declared to not not many people are going to have that. But if you if you do have routing fees, that's also income. And it's also a Bitcoin

node, every lightning node is a Bitcoin node. So you have incoming and outgoing on chain transactions also. So you really need something that's going to find all that information is there, it's all in l&d. So you can you can export it all so you have to do all of those. You can't just say, Okay, here's all the histogram donations that came in, unless that's all you unless that's literally all you're doing. And that if that is that's fine, but if your node has lots of channels, and you're

doing your routing, you gotta have that too. So just FYI. See, sir Doug again. 5000 SAS he says for Dame Jennifer s SL C SLC ls l certainly LC LC is e s e l s e Okay. SLC sin is 3333 sets is and he or she says pew pew on was my pew I lost my pew I've been so obsessed with the horn the horn is very obsessive. Alright, Mike Dell sent us 3333 He says Did it work this time? Well yes it did.

Oh, I was just looking at it because you're so right. I looked at the tally coin because it podcast index.org You can also send us Fiat the donate button donate the donate button the yes please don't donate but you can have a donate. That's we got a tallyho boost 96,263 Unfortunately, I don't know who it's from. And a second one that tallyho boost this and the previous tallyho was Dred Scott again latest 72,002 This he's given well over a million SATs for this episode. Good God

Almighty dread dread. Thank you, man. I got it. Let me give him a little special. Hop on dribblers riding lightning round the Lightning Lightning boost. Pocket parlay sent us 3000 sets I liked that name by the way. Pocket. Yeah, good work, guys. As always, can I get a JC D boost please? Well, the JC D boost always comes in three boost boost boost. You got it? Mike Dell 3333 He's back. Yo Yo. He says I'm now the podcasting 2.0 Project Manager at blueberry

boost and so that's official. It's an official. I love it. We'll send you a nameplate my business card to get new business cards. What is this podcasting? 2.0 manager, project manager project manager. Dirty Jersey whore 18,000 to 18,008 says boobs plus boost cleaning out my wallet Just thought I'd drop by and sling some stats your way go podcasting. Wow. Whoa, I didn't mean to do that. accident is the robbery pads that gets you exhausted cash sticky. I

Satoshi I Satoshi with you. Send us 500 SATs and he says thank you for all your podcasts. We're happy to produce all of them. Yes. Our pods pod Martin Linda scogs in 1776 SATs he says I'm testing a booster gram via pod verse for the first time Liberty boosts 1776 Set Satoshis 50 SATs go into the app as default setting. I look forward to testing out the live item tag Sunday Martin Linda Skog Lyceum para Pitocin. Twitch. This is actually cool. Now I know that pod verse doesn't do

that per minute streaming. They're working on that because of player things. But in the in the interface, when you set it up with your lb wallet, you have an amount for the boosts. And then although it's unclear if it's an addition or if it's separate, I think it's an addition. Then you can separately and I think the default is 50 sites you can boost 50 sites to the app to pod verse every single time you boost greatly. That's do it. You can configure it. Great way to

do it. So it's so it's not defined in the split. It's completely separate. It's clear. There's a suggested amount you can do whatever you want. Great idea. I like that. Yes. Yeah, that's that's perfect. And it works because you see someone understood it. More does podcasts back 1111 111 He says your boots on the ground report from pm 22 was surprising. Adam. I hear a lot about woke stuff, but just don't see it much here in Brizzy. Hope you guys had fun anyway. Oh, yeah.

Oh, no. We had a lot of you kidding me? I got 35 minutes of free content out of that is great. We had a great time. Yeah. That was a bonus. That was a bonus. No, and, and again, it just showed me that we the escape hatch we've built is here. It's on time. We made it. People People have an alternative path. And it's clear. And if you went during lunchtime to the small conference room around the corner in the back, you might have found out about it.

People People should not have a center at their conferences because every time we show up, controversial things happen. We went to the Bitcoin Miami conference and Jack Dorsey got accosted on stage by a state senator. Do you want the wrong kind of PR for your conference invite Adam and Dave? Yes, yes. Brian of London and have Dao send us 46,972 SAS the fee for V app yo yo says You've probably answered this already. I want to hear about pod ping at webcast movement. Shabbat Shalom.

Shalom. Yeah, we have we've already talked about it already given that give a little pod pink talk earlier. Thank you, Brian. Lyceum 1776 Liberty boost, and he says I'll send a big baller histogram next time it has a reference to bowling. It is time to strike out some stuff in PC pedosphere With better arguments and intellectual ammo. Thanks for standing up for freedom of expression. Your work is positive fossil fuel for my soul. That's premises Martin lindskog from lecien para

pentose on Twitter. Thank you. Thanks, Martin. Appreciate that. 55 feet fast that's from Pfeiffer from the folk hour. He says go podcasting go podcast that that boost came in through the into the podcast in this website. Oh cool that we're working on it from everywhere. It is working. Love it. River River City mystery. sent us 10,000 SATs nice thank you very much. Oost go podcasting Matt the river city mystery podcast

podcast. Be glass to send his 3223 through fountain. And he says this is a boost for Dame Jennifer. Oh, very nice, basically, or should we do? Here's your cue to boost you know you want to stay tuned next week. For the math. The math jingle yo yo 2110 For Moritz from lb o do the pet podcast in this website. He says where's the hackathon man? stamp on standby two weeks is more than two weeks standby be glad to send us another 30 to 23 for Dame Jennifer thing he

says oh wait that's me. I was so as a test boost for me. And then we got 4554 from Nomad Joe through fountain Nene says eat more beef we need a cow a cow boost a cow boost. And we got the delimiter comma straight blogger area 15,033 sets he says howdy Dave and M next time you go to Podcast Movement conference and you need person of color due to diversity quota. You can take me my skin color is pink. It's like big

skin color. Okay, anyways, anyways, you're warmly welcome to listen to our podcast called AI dot cooking narrated by Gregory William Forsythe Forman from can't just type in your web browser or podcast app AI dot cooking forward to your bycatch. I don't think pink is what anybody has in mind. But thanks for the offer chemistry. Totally, totally appreciate it. Thank you all thank you all so much for providing the value. It helps the trip cost money. So

thank you very much for helping out. We did buy a couple of drinks for people although a lot of people bought us drinks too. So we weren't like loser heels you know we actually we

participated in the in the value exchange. So thank you for supporting our trip here and for supporting podcasting 2.0 It's It's humbling is beautiful and we are a prime example of the escape hatch open wide for anybody to jump through it if you'd like to support us go to podcast index.org down at the bottom of that front page you've got a red donate button or donut

as you prefer. And from there you can send us Fiat fun coupons through Pay Pal you can use a QR code for on chain or for lightning or go to new podcast apps.com and get yourself one of those fancy podcast apps that does value for value. We got some monthlies. Just follow it up. Putney pod news. Thank you James $50 Who thanks yeah, thanks Duane. Goldie is good see him in person by the way is good night you guys had a nice chat with him last night about some what is the what is Dwayne doing?

Oh, no, no, no, no, I asked him about James. Oh, okay. Oh, yeah, that was James. James is tall. He was really tall. He's a very tall man. Rob greenlees tall. Is he told her the new six eight. Good God Almighty, you know, forget me. Greenlee and Cridland. We have the start of the podcast and 2.0 basketball team. Yes, yes, you do. If you if if your entire basketball team is going to be all sinners. We have no point guards. We're just a bunch of other guys around us. Yes.

Dwayne Goldy $8 Paul Erskine $11.14. Michael Gagan $5 and Charles current $5 James Sullivan $10 Sean McCune $20 Thank you Sean Christopher Raymer 10 dollars gone plus Buck $5. Jordan Dunnville $10.02. Coats $6.66 That evil donation, Michael Kimmerer $5.33 Dred Scott again, $15. Man, thank you so much, Miller $20 and Lesley Martin $2. Thank you to everybody. Really appreciate it. Good value for value. Good week, I'm glad

we came. I'm glad we got to see everybody. I think the big benefit was hanging out with people that we're working with, or people are interested, we could do this without it being necessarily a conference. And, in fact, there's so many different ways we could meet periodically, which I think is really good to just start looking at you can't do on on

Mastodon or email or even video calls. You know, I'd love to just have like a podcasting to meet up, ya know, once a year, so just just and not and just jettison the live music and the salespeople. Just just ever meet up and do it and just do it. Just have some good conversation and some and some food. Yeah. And just talk about stuff for a day. That would be much more enjoyable to me, actually. Oh, I totally agree. And if we do it in Vegas, then we can get hookers and blow at the same time.

There's a lot of good boosts that come out of that. All right, ma'am. So what are you doing today? Because I'm gonna, I'm gonna have fun on out of here. I'm gonna go home, spend the night with my wife. Tomorrow. I'm driving back to Austin for bit block boom, which I committed to and you know, Gary Leland, the old podcast medical guy who sold the conference, he started bit block, boom. He's asked me for years. I've always weaseled out of it. I tried to get out of it

again this year. I really did. But no, I I owe it to him. And it's good for us. Because there will be people there that you know, are interested in what we're doing. But yeah, so I'm just and then I'll be very, I'll be very tight. Yeah, I'm bailing out tonight. So I'm sorry. What do you got any? You're gonna hang with you got anyone? By basically are you going to be okay, if I leave you alone? I'll be okay. I'll be okay. Now I get I'm gonna go hang out.

First thing I'm going to do is eat because I'm freaking starving and not eaten. Well, no. I'm gonna go get some food. And then I'm going to meet up with John Spurlock. I think cool. He said he wanted to talk about some stuff. Yeah, but if you watch you watch him talk about some stuff and then just say you know, say goodbyes and stuff. I'm me. I'm trying to decide and decide if I want to leave early tonight and Dinges like split the difference like

maybe drive for hours tonight crash somewhere underway. Crash get around a roadside hotel and then do this do the next leg tomorrow morning. That would get me back earlier than like five o'clock in the afternoon tomorrow. Yeah, you know it's you whatever you want to do do it and I think we can agree the board and management of which you are equal shareholder will approve this prove this is a huge expense. Double approved. We we we actually did that on taxes.

I'm going to order that shitty breakfast burrito room serves Yeah, I'm doing the same approved approved okay. We're careful with the with the community funds here. You know, we it's highly appreciated. What comes in there's no frivolity involved. No, none. All right. Well, you say goodbye for anybody I didn't see and tell him. Yeah, had a good time. Yeah, Dynamite was great. Third time in our lives, we've actually been together in the same way.

It was really good. It's amazing that we've done so much crazy crap and we've only met three times just goes to show. Yeah, safe travels, safe travels my brother right at me. Hi, everybody. Thank you very much for being here once again for the board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 We will be back next Friday. Please join us William till that everybody bye bye. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org For more information, podcast