Episode 94: Bells Out

Oh, broadcasting 2.0 for July 22 2020 to Episode 94 We got our bells out. Hello everybody, it's time once again for the official board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 everything happening at podcast index.org What is the latest with the podcast standards, the namespace, and of course we go through all the nutjob ideas we come up with on podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here

in the heart of the Texas Hill Country. And in Alabama ladies you can meet him in person at Podcast Movement, my friend on the other end. Mr. Dave Jones. Yes, ladies, ladies meet him in person. Get get a selfie with Dave the pod sage. I made two discoveries to musical discovery. Oh, on the way home, you know, of course I do this on the way I do this. I get off work on Fridays. And during during the summers, we're off the rest of the day. We do have a summer we do. And then

the rest of the years. Do this on my lunch break. So right now, on the way home from work. I was listening to some to some Steve Perry. And that guy is Sammy Hagar voice is interesting. Or Steve Perry are the exact same person. I've met both of them. And I can assure you that in no way. Are they the same person at all whatsoever. retract this conspiracy theory. No, I hear what you're saying. But no, no, Sammy Sammy was the one that that egged me on to think about MTV. Oh, really?

Yeah. When he came to visit he was with Van Halen, then in Holland. And you know, the Alex and Alex and Eddie are Dutch. That's right. Yeah. Okay. I remember that. I remember when they had short hair also, when they cut their hair really short. Yeah. Yeah. That was like that was towards the end, right? Yeah. Van Halen. Yeah. And so that's when they were on the show. And, and I had my glorious blonde locks. And so we're doing the interview, and all of a

sudden Alex pulls out these big scissors. Like, come on curry. We're making you join our club. Like, no. Get away from me with him, but he pulled. So he pulled out the Yeah. Exactly. An early version of running with scissors. Hey. Yeah, that's the the other musical discovery I made was that songs don't have interludes anymore. interludes. Yeah, so like, you know, like a good you have like, your verse, your intro, your verse, chorus

verse chorus, Brunello? Yes, the solo? Well, there's no if you squeezed in the middle another there's another section is just a musical interlude where it would just be they go into just some different section and they just hang out there for 30 seconds or a minute and just do something different and then they go back into the song like that doesn't happen and you know, well, that's because tick tock owns the music business. You got

to get your hook out within 20 seconds. And then maybe, maybe, maybe it'll catch but that's how and if you're if you're an artist, and you don't pimp yourself and your song on Tik Tok they fired you. And you pretty much every record companies, no matter how big the artists you gotta get on Tik Tok. Oh, that's there's there's huge scams going on. I think there's placement, the there's payment for placement, the algos, I'm sure are being manipulated for pay. I mean, this is a lot going on over

there. It's such a black box. Not a black box is value for value. And I don't know something it feels to me like something tip. Something that you know, we went over some kind of, well, let me say a tipping point. She's just she just started taking off. I mean, Todd Cochran, two shows in a row is just Mr. Booster grab, which is called them Todd booster. Graham Cochran from now on. TBC it is.

I mean, I hear this, but I just wonder what happened. It's like all of a sudden, maybe it's because he had the experience. He got his umbrella up and running and you start seeing SATs come in. Is that Is that what it is? I don't know. Maybe or maybe he just rediscovered? He said somebody started getting him to listen to the show again. Oh, right. He had taken a good taking a break from from podcasting. 2.0 which is not allowed. No, I mean, I mean, that's against company policy. Yeah, he can

be on the board. If he knows you have to the board meeting, please. Or at least you know, this is like the notes. If you can't listen live, you can't attend the meeting. Then at least you get the board notes. The minutes, the minutes that thank you So that's the word I was looking for the minutes. Let's write those up every week. You can't just oh

that's interesting. So well then must have been listening to us doing everything lit where he felt the excitement you hear that your everyone heard a couple of cues coming already. It's an incredible motivator is his value for value thing. It's it and Cridland has not stopped doing booster Graham corner. And I mean, it's this is now just a de facto way of talking back to shows. It's really nice. And we found out yesterday. Yeah. You didn't know about this. You hadn't gotten a secret

little tip off? No, no, I had no I had no clue. They. So I mean, the first thing I heard of it was was Sam Seth, he's tweet about it on Twitter. Tell us tell us what happened now. Well, I mean, if people listen to pod Lando, they did an interview with with Morris from Alby. And he revealed in there that rss.com is doing an integration with Alby so you can launch a podcast or wallet

directly from their UI using our using lb. And they'll go ahead and put the out put everything the value block straight in your RSS feed. Oh, phenomenal. I mean, I had no idea and I pinged Alberto I was like, Wow, that's amazing. Congrats. That's, that's incredible. In there to play it off. Like, yeah, you know, we just we just met cool, what do you say?

No, he sent me back a screenshot of of their unreleased, you know, the way it's gonna look, he's like, here's the, here's the top secret, tentative screenshot of the way the UI looks, looks great. It looks fine. It looks just like you would think it would be where you do an integration. Now, you

know, like, you could do it one of two ways. And I've had discussions with hosts before about this, you can do an you could do like an integration types style thing where you, you kind of hook out to another service and launch a wallet and then get the get the details and then go and put those in the feed and right but then, but then the knowing that the user is going to need to go manage their wallet, everything from

that other side or that other service. It's like we're, we're helping you recruit we're facilitating the creation of anatomy wallet for you and going ahead and in referencing it in the feed, and sort of like wallet management is still done with Alby I mean all of that separate right that's my understand that makes my understanding is right now unless the endless not right, but man Hagen Can I just say God bless the Germans. The Hallo,

Deutschland. Here's the half. Man. This is so cool, man. Those guys got got balls of steel over there. Yeah, we got. We got Michael. coming on in August coming on and then Oh, yeah. Couple weeks. Yeah. Okay him about all the deets. So if Oh, please. DT. What? So when does this launch she knows this close to launch must be announcing it. She's talking about it. I think it's Monday. That was my that was my read Holy crap.

What a game changer. You know, this is this is I feel this, like, I had this wave kind of like, oh, this is so good. Because here you have this hosting industry, which also by itself has been a little bit stagnant over the past 10 years, for obvious reasons, the holy everything, the whole space, the space was constricted man. By by our own brains. It's going to create new competition. You know, I hear Todd talking about

and not just the wallets, but the whole namespace. I hear Todd talking to his development team saying, Hey, guys, you got to look at some more of this namespace stuff. You get to Buzzsprout of course, is is a head with, with a lot of implementation of a lot of tags. I mean, this is I mean, this 58 apps and services. It's almost like 32 flavors.

Well, I heard him talking about on I was listening to buzz casts on the way in this morning to the office and they were talking about it when they were talking about the LIVE TAG and you know, like what, you know, what can we do with live how, you know, I think the live stuff has really, that may be part of the newfound sort of fervor for all of this. I completely agree because it's exciting. Yes, it is. Hit me with a boost of ground people give me a pew pew I need to hit

a dopamine hit. I'm having withdrawals. The the live stuff just gets you. It gets you go from a podcast that so this excitement is coming from? It's coming from the podcasting side from the from the podcast creation side. And in hosting side it's called adoption. Adoption. Yes, yes. Yes.

It happens right after innovation and a does. So but then Thanks, Joe, the podcasters get excited about, about doing these things like live where it says something new and fresh and in cool in a way that you know that you're there's an audience that's on the other end of it getting notified. And you're all going to read there.

And you know what, I think maybe since we're this deep into the into into this topic, maybe we should bring in our guest board member, since, you know, he's also experiencing the joy of value for value as we speak. Yeah, sure. Was it too early or do you want to sit with me for now? It's never too early to me. He's finished. He's already had a pattern donut. Please welcome into the boardroom. You know him as the

co host of Linux unplugged. I don't know if he owns started up whatever he did with Jupiter broadcasting, but we'll hear all about it. A good pod friend of the board meeting, please say hello to Chris Fisher. Hello, gentlemen. Boy, it's so nice in here. It was virtual. It can be as nice as you want it and I didn't know we are giving out hugs. i Oh, yeah. To the right. Oh, we listen, we have a motion of positivity on the table. This started last week. So we

continue to hand out hugs. Chris, I'm sorry to my intro sucked. Really? Tell me exactly what you do. Tell us about Jupiter broadcasting and the podcast you're doing. I mean, you kind of got the the important bits. Yeah, Jupiter broadcasting is a podcast network. If you'll allow the term, it's a rough sense. It's really me and a small team. And we focus on Linux, open source, self hosting and development. That's really kind of our core Nish over there. And you're

right. Linux unplugged is really the show most people know us for it's the largest Linux podcast out there. We've been going for like nearly eight years. And we have you know, just sort of in the last, probably starting in January went really kind of big on trying to get as much trying to get as many features of podcasting to Dotto supported with our podcasts as we can as

fast as possible. And, you know, for me, the real kind of I mean, you guys were on my radar, the moment apple and Spotify started, you know, kind of showing their intentions with podcasting. But what really clicked for me as a podcaster. And I think you guys were just touching on this, it was heli pad. That was the breakthrough, right? It was it was a new way to get input to get feedback from the audience in a in a system that I think is superior to email, for a lot of reasons.

That's, that's, well, while you jumped over a whole lot there. Just before we dive into that, when you say Podcast Network, I'm always intrigued. I think, you know, the reasons why is this a financial Podcast Network? Is it just a shared resource? Or not just a is it a shared resources? Podcast Network? What is the structure? And what is the intent of it being a network? We had a name for it, right? Because it's, you know, there's

an LLC behind it to do like, all the businesses stuff. And then we share resources in the sense that I'm on all of the shows. Oh, your shared resource, okay. Can they book you on a calendar? Or how does that like a conference room?

I pretty much, you know, the main host of all the shows, or the co host in some cases, and then we share editing resources, financial resources, you know, maybe you know, sponsor deals stuff like that network in the sense that there are a handful of shows that are just really my shows that are focused on a core topic and is the main has the main revenue driver been donations, ad sales. Anything else? Nope, no, no motor? You have an LLC, so I presume there's profit motive?

Yeah, it's been I'd say it's been a mix over the years of donations and advertising. We don't do like a lot of ads. So we kind of have maybe one or two sponsors, and then the rest would be memberships or booths. Okay, so yeah, big, big sponsors. Like, what's the hosting company? Linode Linode. Yeah, I should know that. Okay, so they're like a main sponsor, and they sponsor across the whole network. Is that how it works? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, for the most part.

Okay. Well, good, then you're exactly the right board member to have with us today because we're gonna slam advertising and we're gonna we're gonna up the value for value. You know, I actually you'll find me frequently doing it to office hours. I just went on a rant about it. So and I will say that because I listened to Linux unplugged I love the show. I've boosted it always stream my SATs. I don't mind ads in context of the show. Right? When when you do when you

break away for Linode now, it's, it's not even. I'm not in the market. I'm a Linode customer already, but I'm not really in the market for anything. But somehow it to me it's like contents. I think the ads kind of change. You know, you make it relevant to whatever may be going on with the show with that moment. So those times I mean, that to me is relevant content and it's not like I'm being tricked or anything. I don't

feel robbed of my time. So that kind of hybrid model Like, that's kind of what we're trying to go for is that donations through booths or the memberships give us kind of I mean, I've been doing this for a long time. So I would always try to do whatever's right by the audience, because I know long term, that's what matters. But it also just feels good to make

it work from a business standpoint. So the primary revenue comes from the memberships and the boosts, which gives us the flexibility to say no to the scam email, I'm sure you guys see these two, these emails that come in all the time. It's ridiculous, right? So we get to say no. And then I, you know, Linode makes a lot of sense, because it's a Linux podcast, and they're a Linux hosting provider, right?

So we get to say yes to that kind of stuff. And then, because it is such a good match Linode is in their second year of sponsorship, and they're they're still very happy, because we did make that content match works, as well as it does. I think I think the thing that is different about a show like yours, and I would put, I think I would put accidental tech in there. There's a there's a few shows like yours, where the with their host read ads, and they're well done. And they're

reasonable links. Now, you know, when it comes to probably, what I consider the master of the host read ad is probably Leo Laporte, I mean, the guy just, you know, he can just do it for, I don't know how he's so good at it. But that the problem with those shows, though, is they the reads are so long, I mean, you feel like you're just it loses your you loses you it loses the audience, I think that that on your shows, Chris, you do a

really good job of keeping them short. And to the point where it does feel like content, it doesn't feel like it doesn't so much feel like an ad, really, I'll take the compliment, but I think it is a tight line. That is until you figure out that the business needs to be oriented

towards the audience. And the audience needs to be the biggest customer, which took me years to figure out, it's not just obvious for everybody, maybe it is for some people, but that's where I feel like the booths give that baseline to every podcaster possibly where the audience is the most important customer from a business standpoint, and from a creative standpoint. So both things are in alignment.

Give me so if you wouldn't mind going back and how you I first started hearing about podcasting 2.0 Or I don't know if it was value for value that brought you in or the you know, the project in general, and how it's been how you introduced it and how you're implementing it. And do you have a Lamborghini yet? For all the Bitcoin Yeah, yeah. You know, I think honestly, I,

I'm almost likely, I've heard it from you on the show. But it really came on my radar because I just have just, my lizard brain got all worked up when I saw apple and Spotify playing their hands. And I realized, we are way behind. We don't have a decentralized index. We don't we don't have anything independent even of these major companies. And we have been legging in any real feature development for so long. And this was the thing I

realized I've been doing. And we all do it because we haven't had any other option is I've been sending my listeners to different various websites for years to consume, like a live stream or to get show notes or to get chapters, it's so dumb to be sending them outside of the podcast app. It's short sighted. And so when I saw the podcast index, and I saw the namespace

stuff, I thought, Okay, this makes a lot of sense. And I became kind of loosely interested in thought, okay, right on, I mentioned it on there a few times because I thought this was a great idea. And I was grateful that you guys were out here fighting the good fight. But what I realized a little bit later on was well, I mean, to be really frank with you guys, podcasting to Dotto support can be a competitive advantage for my podcast, I can offer features that other folks

in the space can't offer, right? I think chapters I think transcripts, booths, all that are features that we should have had for a long time, and I want my podcasts to have them first as fast as I can. And I think I have a savvy audience that wants

that kind of stuff, too. So that's an element of it. And then like I said earlier, when heli pad came in, and from a podcast or workflow standpoint, like how I produce my shows, heli pad offers me a better feature set than email does port, you know, Twitter, DMS, or whatever. Pew pew pew pew heli pad brought it all together for me. And it was like, Oh, crap. Plus, also, I'm just a big fan of sound money. So when I realized it was using the Lightning Network, I was all in.

Yeah, yeah, that so I've got there. I got a lot of stuff too, that I had jotted down to talk to you about some of it specific to you and some of it about just what you were talking about a while ago with feature feature development and that kind of thing. So but I think what I want to start with is you do live shows. And so how are you going to do anything with the live item tag? Is that in your on your roadmap at Oh, yeah. Are we have I think this is going to come up later too.

But I think our biggest barrier there is that we're not generating our RSS feeds ourselves right now. But I am getting peer tube established. I'm getting all of that plumbing ready. So when we do have that capability, it can just kind of get all connected. What host are you using right now? Is it farside? Correct? Yes. Perfect. Okay, because we can, you know, we know Dan really put a gun to Dan's head and say, Dude, put this tag Now, Dan. Yeah, I gave you my car. Dan. Now, please.

Yeah, well, we need to tell Dan is that Adam still has the car registered on the Mercedes app on his phone, and he could shut it down at any moment. Any minute. That's right. I can track him. And really, Dan, you went there. Okay. Yeah, I would love to see also the ability in fireside to individually edit the value items. So that way when I have a guest on I couldn't include them in the split and stuff like that. And so those lacks the lacks the lacking I don't I'm

trying to be nice, because I really liked Dan, too. And I actually really liked FIRESIGN I think it is a good deal. But it just I feel like those features not being on fireside have held us back exactly. Talking about you in our RSS setup. This is good. This is not holding back. I mean, everyone's busy. Of course, everyone has their own development timeline. But I think what rss.com Did that just kicked competition in the hosting space into high gear. I mean, everyone's gonna

see it like, oh, shit, well, okay. Well, we got to have because it's, this is just how it works. I mean, you can see the pattern. It's like, oh, something's trending. What is it? Oh, these guys are doing that. Okay, what can we do? I think it's all it's, it's going to be very exciting. And frankly, I can't wait for the first hosting company to come and say, Hey, here's some tags we've been thinking of.

Yeah, interesting. Interesting. Yeah, I think we're on we're really on the razor edge of just kind of building that infrastructure ourselves. And the the part that makes me a little sad about that is once we're generating our own RSS feeds, and we're also moving on to generating our own website, because we need we need a page that shows all of our shows together. I'm really only then using fireside as a CDN, and that doesn't seem like a great value to them. And yeah, it's just not a good spot.

That's when you get on IPFS podcasting, it's all free. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. IPFS we get off camera and on by the way, do much with IPFS. Chris, Lord, I hate to say I played with it, and I wasn't super impressed yet. I see. That's where I'm at to get like, we've, me and Adam. They're trying to do IPs for so many years. And it's just like, it just always it's like 90% reliable, but that 10 That last 10% is just so frustrating

boots on the ground update. Since I've, I have installed IPFS podcasting on my Umbral I am pinning and doing all this stuff. For all of my shows, no agenda, it has a lot of a lot of pins and a lot of cached episodes. I have not used it in in any enclosure URL to date. But exactly what you say Dave, then all of a sudden click something happens and I get an email and that is kind of cool because the emails automated and

says Hey, your node hasn't done anything in two weeks. You gotta go kick it and that's the problem is what are what what am I kicking and why? Why is it doing? What I kicked the dog it was I did see that's the thing that I get when when we first started distributing the podcast index database on a weekly basis. With the first way we did that was through IPFS it's like okay, we're gonna make this thing

decentralized. Am I right? Yeah. And we're gonna go straight to IPFS Wow, DD is what are you what's wrong with you where you've been hanging out Tik Tok. The the, but then, so I have a, I had to write a neck necromancer script that would just watch IPFS all day long in and bounce it every time it fails. And so that's what was happening. It would just stop responding, and I would bounce

it or it would crash and I would have to restart it. So I get an email and at least four or five times a week at BFS and Damon has to be restarted for some reason. I just can't I can't that's not that's not enough. That's not good enough. No, yeah. Yeah. And am I testing the way to really improve the reliability involves centralizing it through Cloudflare and then at that point HTTP and I'm not a big fan of the filecoin shenanigans either. I gotta be honest, I don't like that. Yeah, but

that's completely separate. You don't have to integrate that and I don't I think their motives are pure. But there are others guys but there's there are some people out there who have different ideas. Alright, just with the with the with the coin aspects. I don't know. I mean, that old coin seem to have fallen out of favor at the moment. Ain't no wonder Oh yeah, I guess I'm just wanting to get a Linux unplugged or and I'm just wanting to get those live notifications on my phone.

Yeah, it really would be that that is one of the things I want the most, I think that's such a great idea. And that's when I was talking about how I feel sort of silly for sending people outside the podcast app for so many years to watch the live stream. And it just makes so much sense because they're my subscribers, they're already subscribed to my podcast. So it's gonna get, it's gonna get in front of a lot more people.

And you'll look at the way that these apps are doing it. It's not really obnoxious, they're doing it in a really tasteful way that makes it clear, this is a live show. I could see me messing up and not remembering to pull the live item tag and stuff like that. So I'm wondering about how I'm going to build process around that just so I don't embarrass myself a bunch of times. Oh, dude, wait, wait until you leave the stream on it or just chatting after the show for an hour. I mean, that's,

that's my favorite. I've done that. I don't actually know if this is true. But I have been told by multiple audience members that I left the stream going well, my wife at the time was having our third child at home. And no one recorded it. I don't know, it may be out it was years ago, there's at least three, three scripts that run out in the

space somewhere. And the minute I fire up the live stream, they start recording, and then I have these emails, I can send an email, and then it'll send me a link to the recording in case my own recording screws up. Yeah, there's all kinds of cool. That's value for value, man. That's how it works. Yeah. So just about the mix, if you don't mind, because we have some advertising stuff to talk about. You don't do any network ads. I

mean, you know, like, do you work with ad networks? Is it really with companies individually? Yeah, I just go direct with the company. Okay. You know, I just do sales myself. Okay, and you do sales for the whole network? Yes. Well, yeah. I mean, I'm on the shows for the most part. So it just seemed it just got off and I do the reads.

But it's so interesting, because as we see value for value moving in one direction, and I think ads are becoming more of a problem, there's certainly going to be less, less demand in for the next foreseeable time. That's just what happens in in a down market. And I know that this is not just from numbers that float up on CNBC. You know, it's like my stepdaughter, your entire department in a marketing company was let go, she's the only one left was like, Yeah, that's a promotion. Trust me.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's yesterday. Now this is of course from CNBC. But snap is seen as a bellwether for online advertising, and they had a horrible quarter, and you know, their stock is down 38% Or something today, and that affects everybody. And it's true, it's just there's less money being spent, you see it everywhere on in the marketing

and advertising business. So while this is taking place, we have Netflix who are pure streaming, and you know, pay your pay your one time fee, which they've Of course, raised several times. And they're now looking at, at probably at best a hybrid model of a lower per month fee, and you get some ads. And in the midst of all this, I heard a really interesting statistic, which is the amount of money each, the average Netflix customer is spending per minute. They watched Netflix.

And this was a and what do you think it is that you know, for whatever you pay? What is it these days? 15 bucks, 17? I have no idea. You pay that per month, and you consume an X amount of time of content in time. What do you think it is per minute that That breaks down to if you if you divide your streaming minutes by your monthly spend? Oh, man, I'm gonna say I'm gonna say faster. 10 cents a minute.

Okay. Oh, Chris, because the tricky thing here right is some of these Netflix subscribers are kind of degenerates, they just binge this stuff. So they could be watching hours and hours and hours at a time, which would lower the overall average. So I'm gonna say I'm gonna go crazy, and I'm gonna go 99 cents a minute. All right, everybody, please booster Graham, your guesses? And I'll give the solution a little bit later on. Price this price is right rules are we going for

$1 $1? One half of a penny. Whoa, for the penny and one half of a penny. Now if you and so that's what people want to watch because they're watching it. That's that's permitted. That's permitted permitted. Okay. So that would be the same as 20 sets per minute. Well, that's almost what, what the default is exactly. So But what's interesting is People send 10

times as much in value for value 10 times. So I just can't make Netflix's numbers work, you know, and then they can either then, you know, they're a debt based company, they've never been profitable. Spotify is in the same boat. But when it breaks down to numbers like that we're seeing a real market that we've created that is more profitable is more fun, and does not come with interruptive ads or doesn't have to. It's fine. And then and then there's this big Well, big. There's a paper

that went out 20 page 18 pages from the IAB labs, labs. It's from the lab. I didn't know they had a lab. Yeah, I immediately I see guys with lab coats in my head from the legs. Exactly. And I read it. I read this paper, because I heard a lot of different people talking about it. And and did you guys read it? Do you know what this is about?

I read the first three pages. Yeah. Oh. So the Add issue is it's really one thing Apple has, has an A private VPN service that they have enabled for Safari that you can enable for Safari, which cloaks you which means IP address and geolocation, a whole bunch of other things are no longer available through neurotypical web detection technologies, HTTP type stuff. So the log files won't be complete. And it doesn't affect their podcast app at the moment.

But the fear is, they would turn that on across the entire TCP IP stack. And it would, you know, it would also hide IP addresses for apps, which would mean, the way I read it, the podcast industry would collapse. Done. If would collapse. And it's sad to see that once again, Q and this is a pretty big group. And there's some bigger names in there than in the past when it just came to lobbying Apple to do stuff. But they're, it's the same thing. I'm seeing a repeat, let's get together. Let's put a

paper together. Let's, let's have some meetings, let's work on a document. And without even I mean yet kind of asked at the end, say Happy Apple, could you please come to the table. This is a failed strategy. We know this won't work. Now Apple may never change it, but just look at your business. This is and look at your business and tell me that this is not incredibly risky, incredibly risky, Apple could just wake up and just have

a different CEO or whatever and decide mas Screw it. And we're just we're only going to promote subscription based stuff or whatever they whatever they would want to do Spotify, I think, doesn't care at all. To me, if it's more advantageous to them, though, they'll, you know, they don't care. I mean, I think Spotify is happy, they they know who their customers are. And everybody else, you know, it seems like the and it's not just about geolocation. It's about attribution. It's about knowing

who you are. And let's be honest about it. This is their collecting data. This is what this is what a cast does. The a cast is probably really smart to make that acquisition, because now at least they have registered customers. And it's not just some IP addresses that are out in space.

Yeah, I think I think a cast wants to be that I mentioned this to you the other day, I think they want to be and this is not meant as a, I don't mean this as a slam, but they want to be the Spotify of RSS, of open RSS, they, they want to

essentially have the full stack, top to bottom. But but using RSS, instead of going the siloed approach where we're This modifies my, my opinion, I've been refining this opinion for a while, you know, I said a while back that I anchor was going to go away as a brand, I think what's ultimately going to happen. And the more I think about it, I think Spotify is just gonna get out of the pod quote unquote, podcasting game, pretty much in June. And what I mean by that is, they may still

call them podcasts. But what they're gonna have is they're just going to have exclusive shows. And they're not going to be RSS involved around it. So they're just going to have this essentially this private internal stuff they're going to they're going to own megaphone and these other voices on the side, so they can capture some of this revenue coming out of

successful podcast shows as far as advertising revenue goes. But I think that a cast, so I kind of think in in five years, Spotify is going to be sort of a non entity when it comes to Podcast, the podcast industry as a whole may eat those words. But that's that's my I don't see how they can last five years without raising more money. And a cast is also one of these baffling companies. They had 100 and I think they've raised $130 million. Okay, it's

respectable, you know, over several rounds. They spent clearly spent some of that We don't know if was cash or in stock on? What's the name of the company that bought? Purchased pod chaser? I don't know if they've done other acquisitions, but now they had what they call a listening app. And that was only the beginning of the year. And then there's Oh, no, we're shutting that down. And it's all free. It's all for the best.

Well, I guess no one cared about the app. And then they do. And now they're an ad based company, they bought a, a database so that they can know more about podcast listeners to target ads better. And you know, we're serving the open ecosystem, but we've changed our app to a cast plus, and you can turn off the ads and just have your listeners subscribe and pay you directly. So it's the

full span. That's the full stack Spotify model. Yeah, but you but I built an RSS, but that means that you're that you don't have a lot of confidence in your advertising model, because you need the inventory. Yeah, and if your inventory keeps going away, because the going private and by subscription, I just that's to me is baffling.

Yeah, they're, they're, they're killing one one part of the business to grow another part of the business that they hope will be a reoccurring revenue, it must be the math that they're doing. It seems like any of these ad deals at massive scale are going to be the absolutely devastated in any kind of economic drawdown you know, if we have a recession here in the States, or a recession in the around the world, these kinds of bulk ad deals where they sell a bunch at once and they do them

across multiple shows, these are the first to die. These are what they sell for dynamic insertions to write. Dynamic and search and CP, everybody's this is like ad talk, we never do know, it's important to do it once in a while. The dai stuff that dynamic ad insertion CPMs have come have come up in recent in recent times, and gotten gotten a little bit higher. Heard TOS say that they're like half of what a what a host read read is, which is not great. But I mean, as far as

its historical value is bigger. So kind of get everybody excited, oh, maybe dominant MC ads can work. But in a, in a downturn where advertising suffers, the dynamic stuff is going to take a hit immediately. I mean, like this stuff is gonna go right back down. And right now they have 47,000 creators, as they call it, which includes the BBC, so I guess they don't own at least all of

them. And, you know, because they have to approve them, the whole website for a cast is all about brand safety, etc, etc, managing your expectations as an advertiser. So that's very difficult. And so you know, that is just a fraction of the this is not going to be for every podcast to make money. And what what I found kind of weak in general and me that took them 18 pages to say Apple, could you please talk to us because we got

a problem. That's really what they were saying Apple we have a real problem here and and just let us know, are you going to screw us give us a timeline, we need to know we've got to fix stuff. And it will take that before someone actually does something not dissimilar to podcasting. 2.0. So they throw in like, well, this will yield less content will be created. This is bad for diversity in podcasting. At that point, my head goes down. I'm like, come on. Podcasting is one of the

most diverse mediums you can ever imagine. So don't do that. Just the problem is Apple just needs to help them out. Now. This this problem, by the way was solved. You Alex gates and I think Cridland Dave, you guys came up with a whole schema for this that solve this very problem. Are you are you Timothy? Uli, do you lie? Yeah, that was dos. Dan, me and Dan Ben. Oh, Dan Benjamin, I'm sorry. Yeah. And I put that out there because not because it's

sour grapes or anything like that. I don't really care about this. But I mean, the, but it is it is a point to make where there are I mean, this was talked about this is not I mean, we this was talked about before Brian Barletta joined the join the IB group. And he went in there with the intent to talk about this problem. And that was literally like a year ago that was last year's Podcast Movement that we that man Dan did this right. And and then it has taken a year just to get it. I'm going

to use this to lead into something if I can. It took a year evidently for the IB to just produce a paper saying that there's a problem. Like, yes. In what I'm leading into, is this is the problem with standards bodies and working groups. So and I heard I heard Todd on. This is going to be important. I want your input on this. Chris, the our Tod on their own new media show talking about he said you know the pocket podcasting 2.0 Folks, they need to, you know, start to develop this into

a group and do all these kinds of things. And my first reaction was no No, no. Because here's the standards bodies and working groups, they, they lead to the type of stagnation like this that we see. Here, here's the here's the thing, we are guided by the rules for standards makers always have been. Rule number one is interop is all that matters. That's, that's the guiding principle of everything in podcasting. 2.0. And in my opinion, should be the guiding principle and all open source

projects. But we, we don't build in to flesh that out, we don't build new base protocols. So if you have a base protocol that you need to build something like HTML, or something like that, I can, I can understand a W three C type organization. But for our type of setup, where we're not building necessarily base protocols, we're building glue protocols, and interrupt specs

to attach to existing specs and protocols out there. So we're taking RSS and attaching it to activity pub, taking RSS and attaching it to lightning, taking RSS and attaching it to blockchains and pod pain, when we were doing then we can move fast. And we don't have to have a huge cumbersome working group. Because the failure, the any failures, quote, unquote, that we could experience are not there. There, there's a limited blast radius there because this is just glue, we can we can

resolve the spec as a as as an enhancement. So the any anything like Do you Do you agree with that? And, Chris, I mean, because I think that I think some stay in the Linux world a lot. There's people are taking distros and then adding stuff to it, and they can move so fast. You said something in there, that stuck with me because i i And I think I just realized I see it more as an open source project. It's not like a one to one because it's it's more about

creating standards and ways of doing things. But if you look at it from a community organizing standpoint it very much is because you have developers in the podcast apps that need to adopt new things that are being created. And you need consensus in that community, which this podcast helps drive consensus in a community that is developing open code and open standards. So it's more of a project than it is a standard Well, there's,

there's something, there's a couple of things. And this is probably by far the most rewarding, most fun, most successful project or company I've ever worked in, in my entire career. And, of course, it's a complete 100% vow of poverty. But that, but that is a key and critical factor. And the project is open. I mean, the fact that most of the code is open source is goes along with that, but it's open. And it

really is value for value. Because we started off by saying, here's the value we're putting in, we're going to do this, and we're going to use these tools for everybody to

collaborate. And so while GitHub is, is a must for code development, having the Macedon server, open it up to all, dare I say stakeholders, so that podcasters listeners, developers, interested just people who are interested, can just drop by throw out an idea, have a conversation, argue a point, whatever it is, but the continual reminder is nothing works if we don't all put in the work. And that's that really is value for value. And somehow that seeped into this project in

such an enormous way. With I will say, my sincere appreciation to the many no agenda nation people who just seem to be willing to risk their risk anything for any embarrassment doesn't matter to them. You know, look, look at you know, just just look at some of the some of the podcasters, who would just you know, the running with scissors fits perfectly. So Biden by not having a an organization a

structure. We still have leadership Dave is is complete code leadership, but he's also the kind of person who empowers lots of other people. And that combination of letting people just go, you know, here's some, here's our constitution rules for standards maker, makers. And now don't be a dick. And then that kind of works. That's the charter. Yeah, it is. It truly is, you know, run with scissors. You know, if you get scraped, we'll all know we'll all patch up together, you know, put a

bandaid on it give you a kiss and a hug. And then we move on. I mean, we laugh, right. But, Dave, you mean you and I have

not conspired? It was I mean I think about this a lot all well I would say that the the reason why all this works when you bring it together is because of the podcast the podcast the board meeting that's really where everything that comes together we everyone you know you can get your hour and a half update once a week you know for some people high ROI it's a lifestyle roi i think Roy goes to sleep listening to us. Oh, okay. That's why he couldn't that's why he said but yes, he couldn't sleep he

couldn't sleep when when we missed the show. He's it's very disruptive. It's a good night's sleep tonight. And so although all those things together show you the power and look at what what has been achieved in just two years, from from an idea to a major hosting company incorporating wallets to there being multiple wallet providers to you know, all of the tags that all the different hosting companies have have put into the services the apps I mean, this is this is not just a small

little thing this is an unstoppable train. I've seen this before it was called podcasting. The here's so here's my with that as the as the framework. Here is my proposal so to speak. The pregnant pause in the pew is just your professional podcast or you felt a common you let it go beautiful. I did the I want to propose that we do something called the podcast improvement proposal system. This is this is why do you grow? Because this grown? You're gonna love it. You're gonna love it.

I'll just tell you why I had the grown is because I feel like I just kicked a leg out from under your chair and you just run on the floor. It first of all, what was the acronym? Is it Pip? Pip? Okay, yeah, right off the bat. I got an any from that. But it's okay. I can I can hold back on the PIP. It also kind of reminded me of a blip, which is near what the Lightning Network proposal or whatever, whatever those proposals are. So it was just it

was just a visceral reaction. It's my shit. It's my problem is childhood trauma. I'm going to work on it. No pizza or in the chest. Is this a podcast improvement movement proposal as we're talking I'm all in on this Dave do tell about the pimp system. Okay, I just I just renamed it officially. It's now we got a trademark is called pimp. Podcast. I'm writing it down. Improvement we're meeting to make it to make this podcast improvement movement. Was it podcast improvement movement?

Point, let's just say podcast I'm proposing and moving proposal or something like that? Yeah. Okay. Here's the and I'm opening the floor for discussion. This is the the idea. There is no working group. There is no standard bodies. And thank god, there's not and we don't want any of that stuff. The this because they all involve meetings and boring things that makes us want to go to sleep. We want to change the world without having any meetings. So yes. Writing down one

meeting. Okay, so here's, here's what, this is not really different than what it currently is. It's just a way to make it make more sense to the outside world, because we got an issue filed on the on the namespace repo, and somebody who is a developer, and he said, You know, I really don't know how to submit a proposal. Is there a template somewhere? Like, how do I go about submitting a proposal for a namespace tag? In okay, I thought, Okay. That's a problem because it's not just the

namespace. Podcasting. 2.0 is lots of different things, podcasting, podcasting. 2.0 is ways to improve podcasting, infrastructure and technology period. That could be namespace, that could be anything. So I fill out what we need is a website or some sort of interface to this says, where you can file a proposal, you can submit a proposal, it gets assigned a number, just like a GitHub repo issue. It gets assigned a number. And then people, everybody knows that

this is the place to look at these proposals. And it can be somebody somebody can come along and say, You know what? I wish that, that there was a pot that podcast apps would do such and such. That thing becomes a proposal. Everybody can see it app developers can go and look at and say oh, that's Cool, maybe I'll add that to my app. Or this isn't Oh, this is probably a namespace tag. Let's Let's slide this over and make it an official namespace.

A pimp, a pimp would be a template that you fill out when the flow would be. So someone come in, say, Hey, I wish that my podcast player could do this. And here's my thinking about it. And then we can say, Oh, you need to file a pimp. He's filed a pimp go over here and fill out the fields. Is that Is that what I'm here? There'll be a pimp Review Board? Oh, hell yeah. Yes, we will review all pimp or pin tickets. And Pam ticketing system. Yes, as MD, she says. And so like, you look, everybody

gets to look at a pin at the pump tickets. And then you fire them off to whoever it makes sense like this is you could the person doing the proposal can say this is an app. This is an app proposal, or a host can say this is a this is a namespace proposal, or somebody like Chris as a as a broadcaster can come in and say, I wish that my host that hosting companies would do such and such and that becomes a host proposal. So you didn't

then the respective parties involved. App developers hosting companies, advertisers, whoever the hell it is, can come in there and look at their, at the at the the they can they can look at what the world is trying to tell them that they want it specific to them, and then they can make decisions about oh, this is okay. Evidently, these people want this. This is a great idea. I can stick it in my app. I like this idea. I like the idea of pimp slapping a bad idea.

I just want to I just want somebody to propose something. And so that I can call it like, refer to it as like pimp. 12 You know, we're voting on today on on pin 33 As you want that I want the satisfaction personally that I like it, I think I think is great. Who's going to build it? Someone will build this. Someone out there is going to build this real quick. It seems simple. I mean, I could I could whip this up, but I got some other stuff to do. You could do it in rockin with headless

No, no, no, no, baby. No, no. Next dot j s, this is the shit now. This is what I'm learning. Now. Next. Jas, this is what all the cool is doing. I don't know Alex Gates told me that was a better answer. I was like, react. And he's like, no, no, man, I was using next.js. Okay, next job. Jas, just this is how I used to do meetings with acronyms and we bullshit. That's why like podcast, improving movement proposal. Yes, these are very important.

I mean, I think this is I think this is a good substitute to it solves problems and it formalizes the thing in a way that the world understands that we still don't have to have meetings. I love that idea. Dave Jones, you're such a smart man. I just shot my wad. I mean, I'm done. I'm done. Well, a recent pimper That was implement, implement, implement, implement, implemented, implemented. And thanks, this commentary blogger for the transcript Download Now. Available at podcasts. index.org.

Yes, that's pretty cool. It needs a viewer though of some sort. Like, I know, I hit it on my phone and my phone goes, No. Yes. You can associate it with a text reader, I think. Do you do you do transcripts on any of your shows? You guys got transcripts? I've seen him?

We've been playing with them for well, basically, since we started trying to implement the podcasting to know features been trying the different services, you know, going through the different cloud one's been looking for an open source one, so I don't have a good system yet. But yeah, I just feel like if there's something out there, it's just a matter of technology and finding the right one, so I feel like that's a solvable problem.

Can I just read a couple of these booster grams because people are responding to us in real time just so we do a few of these Yeah. Freudian slips stick it up your app 2222 Thank you. I thought it was relevant. Care Carolyn 1000 SATs these pimp meetings get me so energized about podcasting telling is this You name it right man and people will flock to it. Darren Oh corner on the show. There are no

corner. Yes. Darren No. 54321 54,003 and 21 sads pain My Vague random thoughts is my fully podcasting 2.0 enabled solo show oats and add transcript. Oh no, he's it's a he's chest thumping. Oh 2.0 enabled transcripts chapter streaming SAS whatever other

magical things you come up with. My voice is even silkier. Then Gregory William Forsyth formance JC says I'm diluted but I'm pretty sure I'm just diluted Okay, Darren heard that there were certain tags that Chris couldn't implement so he just came by to kick right. Go past the Go podcasting from Florida and slips. Let me see pay tar This is when I want to mention 250,000 SATs. God Almighty. You get Can you color and the meat? Yeah. And oh man.

Well, I mean, we don't know if it's the baller of the show, but of course, all right, we gotta roll it out. Oh man, Paola booster gram reads Christmas unfiltered podcast is how I found no agenda and no agendas how I found podcasting. 2.0 Love and Light from Chris. Oh, love and light. Chris. He says Pay tar. Yeah, that's true for Alex gates, too. I forgot about the unfiltered podcast. That was a good show. It's just it seemed like a shitload of production work that

was impossible to keep up with. You know it, you know it. And that's what John and I kept saying, like, this is a great show. But man, the amount of editing they have to do is just crazy. Oh, no, I did a live it was just still a ton of work it well. I thought you did a lot of that in post. Oh, that was all live that impressive. Very impressive. Still too much damn work, though. Yeah, but it was. I enjoyed it. Because I said what clips did they take from me? Let me go see. Which is why we publish

them by the way. This is we love that. It probably didn't happen it may have had. But you know, I think I heard on the show. You gave me a hard time for grabbing your bell but I have about I've had a real pile right here for you. That's legit. That's real. Everybody get your bows out. I got a real Bell. Give me a break. I was out bells out. Bells out. Hold on. Let me write that one down. soundboard clip. It's a real it's a real Bell man. She's Carolyn another. Missy

1111. Showing love to the LIVE TAG chata for the 1000 Blueberry with 10,000 at some point in the future will be possible to send a boost that will play the Theramin live for you. Oh, okay, I guess like an important customization of helipad. Dave, take note and you'll be able to customize the sound. Lehmann creations 500 SATs for a selfie with Dave. No, thanks. Appreciate it. Let's see what other booster grams 21 692 from Steve B. Steven B. He says Fiat $5.05 bucks for a server. Thank

you. And those I think are the main ones. Yeah, that's what's been coming in since we've been live. Thank you, everybody. Appreciate that? How's it going? Chris? With with within income from boot from boost? Have you seen it? Is it rising? Is it stable? Is it like how are you? How are you? How do you notice that going? So I've been doing some experiments. I think when people first get in, it tends to be a little low as they're trying to, you know, just get a new understanding of what OSAT

equals and all of that. But a couple of the other things that we've done to try to just not only encourage adoption, but get people thinking about how much they're contributing, is for a month. Last month, we were doing a split with open SATs, which contributes 100% of the SATs that they received to their

general fund to free software projects. And so if you boost and we gave a 15% split to open sets, and I think that helped, you know, and we're doing it again, for one of our hosts who's going to be doing some traveling on the road to get down to our studio to do some projects. We're doing a split with him for a bit and so the audience is contributing a little bit more I think than they had in the past. I don't know if I don't I don't think we're at the spot where we're

making probably as much as we do with the memberships. But it's also I think early and I seem like I feel like we're getting more and more adoption. I feel like we're getting more boost into the show where we're starting to think now about you know, do we maybe set 1000 set threshold to read a message because there's just a lot to get to this is success when you have to set a threshold that's a

beautiful moment. And don't be apprehensive because people will understand and they will love you no matter what. I hope so. Yeah, no, I want to read all of them. I really do but it also could just go on forever if we did that is the value shows the value for value model has a lot of interesting things that I encourage everyone to play around with. You know, literally we've done sad puppy on this show and no agenda is done it you know, it's like hey, support

is down. Look at this picture of the sad puppy. That's also braiding people works incredibly well. Make sure they troll you with booster grams. I mean, these are all things you can people will love it. It's the it's the wackiest thing I've ever witnessed, and it never ceases to surprise me people never cease to surprise me with their generosity. Their genuineness it would those two go hand in hand with this system. Yeah, and I think there is kind of an appetite for But right now

you look at everything else that's in the media. Now many people are genuine anymore. And there is a real trust there. Because if if you're if you're if your model is value for value, you know that the creators incentives are aligned with what the audience's incentives are. And that is something you can see you can trust. Maybe they make a mistake. Maybe they say the wrong thing sometimes. But it's not an intentional misdirection. It's not intentional

misinformation. Right. It just been a mistake. I think that's super valuable right now. Yeah, totally agree. Okay, switching gears, the social interact tag, do you? Do you have any just formalized that this past week? And do you have any personal desire to use that any of your stuff? I mean, that would it is my best understanding is it creates like a thread on Mastodon for people to do comments. And then those are available about I don't understand much beyond that.

Yeah, so the social interact tag allows you to specify a, a route post that exists somewhere on some sort of social network, or sis, so you know, commenting system, and eventually in the future, and it'll be it'll be expanded to handle things like reviews and stuff like that. And in ratings and but me is really a just a simplistic thing, where it's like, it specifies a URL, which may go to an activity pub URL for an object protected activity verb object, or a Twitter URL. This route is

intended to be the route of a discussion for that episode. So then, if the podcast app speaks activity, pub, or speaks Twitter or speaks whatever, then it can interact directly with the thread and allow posting and reading from directly in the app. So the reason I bring it up is this is, of course, it just got formalized. But hosting companies, I think, don't have hosting companies and apps. I don't think they realize that they can do this right now, with activity pub. In a way that is

pretty simple. Because you got you there's two in the office to facilitate that you have John Spurlock has two things that he did, he really took the social interact, tag in himself, and started building software to make it happen. So he, I want to I want to talk about two things, podcast social.org. That's an API, that you can use his system to just auto create a route post, in an activity post route post. And then you can include that in an automated fashion into your social interact tag,

then stuff can just the conversation can live there. And all and with ditch that one API call you've, you've created a place where activity pub comments can live for this episode. Then the flip side of that is the app side. And he's got to reply, he's got a repo called thread cap, and thread cash, just a JavaScript module that allows you to hook into that route post, give it the route post URL, or the route object, and it will pull in the entire thread of comments. So

there's two ready to go. code bases one, one, a service and API and the other one, a drop in JavaScript code that can give you either side of that that you're looking for. So I think that the reason I bring this up is because yes, Twitter is he is fine. And people know how to use the Twitter API and that kind of thing. But I would really love to see people not use Twitter. I mean, these these activity, you know, activity Pub is there. It's, it's got wide adoption. It's, it's the open source all,

you know, way to go. And I really rather people see people incorporate the activity pub side of things. Yeah, that's interesting, because I know peer tube speaks activity pub. So then I started thinking, Could we make the comments on the live stream feed that we had published? Could we make the comments on that video? The central point of discussion

so we just funnel everybody to one point. So if they watch the live stream, and they leave a comment, or if they're listening to their podcast app, and they leave a comment, it's all on peer to be activity pub that icon Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. Yeah, cuz we do that already. Like I did some live coding last night on on no agenda tube that Alex runs and SSH I have a live stream there. If as sometimes I'll just fire that up and I was working on helipad last night

live and the detect the comments and stuff they go on. If you post there. Yeah, it's full activity public can go you can see that on podcast index dot social. Yeah, that could be really cool. Yeah, I wouldn't have I would definitely use that if I could make that which, which apps? As anyone implemented this, that I mean, fully on this the reading side, I know pod verse shows them to you, but can you interact yet with it? Does anyone implemented that? I don't? I don't think

so. Anybody has implemented writing, writing with that, I think, well, you know, pot friend may have that I don't remember specifically. I'm not sure. But that this is a place where we're a host, we're a host could pick this up and have a big win right away. And they could just, you know, because because the, from the app side, at least reading the comments is, I mean, that's a drop in it's just John's Birla has already done all the hard work.

I mean, the hostess hosting company could set it up so that its activity pub, and that the thread is then displayed on the podcasters website. So at least there's you know, a function for it if someone doesn't have a podcast and 2.0 app yet. Yeah, that's a good point. Sure. Yeah, yeah, that's usually my

trickiest thing. I mean, I guys I know you guys know this. The matric is all of this is user adoption because 30% of my audience is on antenna pod and other good chunk are on overcast and Apple podcasts and and then it's there's a long tail, a lot of fountain these days. But you know, it's that's the tricky thing, too. So something on the web would really be key. So what are those stats? Again, Krista, it's so what are most your your users using? antenuptial?

I don't remember the numbers. Exactly. But in 10 pods, actually the largest and then it's followed pretty closely by overcast and the other kind of big podcast players and Apple podcasts. And then you got fountain in there. And then you got Spotify on the on the long tail. Okay. Because antenna pod is really, you know, they're there. They

just put in podcasting to put our chapter. Yeah. And I think I think the social interact tag, especially in the activity pub side, I feel like that would be a really good fit for their project. I think they would want to support that since it's all open. Yeah, I could I could be wrong, but I feel like that's

right in their wheelhouse. Do y'all do live video at all? Or do you do any video, we've just been getting back into live video, thanks to you guys, really, because I was big into peer tube about two years ago, but it just wasn't there for me yet. And then when I heard that you guys were using peer tube and I saw Alex was working on the NA two, I thought, Alright, I'll do this again. I'll get the plumbing ready, so that we can do the lit

tag, we'll be good to go. And so I got to kind of put cameras back in the studio. And I started doing video again, just kind of recently, just sort of a behind the scenes thing. Audio is really the focus still. Oh, like a Twitch stream or something is what we're doing. Yeah, it's on. It's on our pier, too. But yeah, just start on your watch us in the studio. If you want to watch us sit with big microphones and and talk. I tried to make it somewhat

interesting. I tried to show the websites and stuff. But yeah, it's, you know, it's not it's not a YouTube show. It's we're doing our audio shows, but we put them up there and people show up and they like to watch and stream it. So we'll do it. Makes sense. helipad API Dave, just since we're kind of in that realm still before we slip out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's what I was doing on live code lesson. Live coding last night was implementing the leaderboard

stuff. And I got that in there. So what does that mean? So there's an extra table in in helipad. Now that will, every minute or so it will build, it'll build a new leaderboard of and it's per user per show. So there's an end there's an API endpoint for it. Now, this core is enabled. So if you're running helipad, somewhere, let's just say you had let me let's let's envision a scenario here where you have Hello pad in, in an office or at your house or something. And it's running,

it's communicating with your lightning node somewhere. And it's pulling in boosts all the time and streams. And building this leaderboard will if you were to throw something like tail scale on there. And then on the on a website, you could you could call out to the hell a pad API. Tail scale isn't is enabling No more bullshit with router ports and forwarding and busting open firewalls and insecurity. I love we'd love to scale

in so you could do that. And then your website could be running off of that data that's coming off of your off of your Hello, Pat. If you wanted to have a live live leaderboard website. Nice. Yeah, but it'll there'll be a UI for it in helipad where you can pull up and say show me my current leaderboard. But you could you know, you can do it in a way but right and what we built last night was just the the the tables in the API was this we who was this we were talking about me and my dog Okay.

Dave's cheating on me. I actually think the features are just going to help adoption, you know, people, they like seeing their names up on the leaderboard. And also as a creator, I don't want to miss that somebody has been really contributing quite a bit, right? Those kinds of details, if you're not keeping track of it, you can miss out on and forget to maybe thank somebody approacher. So really Oh, and you will, and you'll screw it up, and you'll skip

over stuff. And it happens. But I will tell you that I started a new career in the keeper from the ground up. And there are people who really, really, really have no idea what they're doing when it comes to even installing an app. It's like, I don't really like doing apps. And and people like doing it's like, Okay, I'm gonna do this, because I really want to get my note read, I want to be a part of the show. I want to be a part of the community. And they do it.

It's great to see, I feel like if we could, if we could get boosts via the web, you know, something you could embed as a podcaster. On your website. I think we'd also see another uptick. That's, that's, that's that's, I'll be right. Yeah, that's yeah, that's yeah, they're almost done with that. I think aren't they done with the, with the splits the integrating in or something? Like I heard about it on pod land? sounded like they were close to that.

I don't I don't know. You know, about the web embedding of Lb Do you, Chris. I know about lb. But I didn't know they had a web embed. Yes. So you can you can put a method, a meta tag into a web page and the lb extension will will see that on the side. And oh, yeah. Yeah. And you can donate directly through that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking more like what pod verse does, you know where you, you hit the lightning button, and then this new pane

expands, and you put the amount in the boost? And and you put the message in? Right? That it's very, very similar, very similar to that. Oh, that's great. All right. I'll play around with that. Yeah, it's pretty sweet. I think albies probably exactly what we needed to just kind of take it to the next level. Yeah, I think so too. It took a lot of the complexity away. And in the fact that you can hook it in to your own stuff on the backside,

if you want to. Mina means that you don't have to. I mean, if you're, if you're hardcore, and you don't want to do custodial anything, well, then you don't have to. Well, I mean, it's custodial infrastructure. But as far as like, the destination of where everything's going to end up, you don't have to you don't have to go that route, if you don't want to know. But yeah, and whoever wrote a shiver just went up Roy spawn when I said

that. For us, for the for the normies. out there. That's, that's, that's pretty good. What else is on your list? Dave? Do you have any other because there's, there's so much going on? There's so many different things you've been working on? Yeah, the other one that well, the other thing I've been working on pretty hard. I was I was hitting that a lot this week was the apple to apple look up in point in size. This is almost

done. And this is so that there can be a complete drop in replacement of the entire 2.0 system if they want to do it. And it would replace all of the apple tags. No, that no, no, this this is for the this is on the API. And so within the API, there will be a public endpoint. Not behind the token, anything would be a public endpoint, just like

apples. So this is for their lookup endpoint. This is where you can give it and you can say you can call Apple's API and say, here's the Apple iTunes, Id give me the information about this podcast, I see it this would be a replacement for that, excuse me, not a replacement. It could be but this is really meant. It's really meant to be a failover. So if Apple goes down, you for it has an outage that apps and services can just do an A, B, and failover to us get the exact same data

you're using. Yeah, you're using the apple, the apple id for the lookup. He's an Apple ID for the lookup. And then, but we're using our database to fulfill the request. And so then what so after that happens, then we send a bill to Apple or how does that work? Yeah, no, it automatically generates an invoice. It goes straight to Tim Cook. We bill you for $3 million in an hour. No big deal. Cool. It's

almost done. I need the last struggle I'm doing is I'm fighting through is the categories because I needed I needed apples internal category. Did a lot of category work, including the now in the export of the database, I guess. Yeah, the category, the category, categories and descriptions I didn't want I've resisted adding the Description field of podcasts and for a long time because I knew it was just

going to bloat the size of the download. And of course it did but it went from about 800 megabytes toward and geez, it. Well, the tars doesn't matter, but it went from 100 megabyte G zipped to like 1.3 gigs, Jesus and almost done. Wow. But that's in that. And that's with a limit of 1000 characters in description field. What's typical people wanted it, what's the what's the typical amount of characters in the

Description field is more than $1,000? Man, there's there's some fans out there that have, you know, a mag in the description field. Outrageous. Yeah. Yeah crazy. But yeah, that's That's uh that's just that's two things that worked on this week. And I'm really just trying with the lookup thing I'm really just trying to give I'm trying to

stay true to the mission of what we're of. There's the mission for podcasting to know there's a mission for the IP on the index, I'm trying to keep the mission pure on the index, and in give developers a non Apple alternative to things when they need it. That doesn't mean that we want to mean this, it would, we can't afford to replace Apple's API. I mean, we don't have that much money. So we can't afford that much infrastructure. But we can and have in the past, stepped in and

full and fulfilled that role when the time called for it. And I mean, that's, that's why Marco gives us $500 a month, because, you know, we played an important role in, in, in his apps live during that time when Apple went down. So that's consider that to be really important. And we're going to you know, we need to keep doing that. I love this idea. And it'll it'll luring more developers go ahead, you know, where your where your insurance policy, you

may just want to hang out with us. Date, bait. Get it out of bait. Nice, shall we? Thanks. Some people since you mentioned Marco who indeed is one of the one of the people who supports us with the value he was with a equal value to what he receives out of it. We love that. Porter we thank and Dave and Chris, you don't have a heart out. Can you hang with us for some boosts? I'm here for you. You're a beautiful man. It's a we got some we got some papers.

We got as usual. Every month Marco gave us $500 He was top of mind. Yes, well, not really a boost but we appreciate Yes, yes. Thank you, sir. Marco. Appreciate that. Very much. And we also got a sad puppy rescue donation from Dame Jennifer Buchanan. Oh, really? Oh, yes. $133 Wow. Jen, thank you so much. Yeah, she says let's see if I can read this. It says oh noes. No Pay Pal donations last week. Vacate the sea vacation should be god this is so hard to read. It's very light. Donation as the

vacation should be celebrated. Well, I celebrate what y'all are doing to preserve free speech. Even when that includes my slightly corny jingles which may even make even me blush named Jennifer. It's so when you talk math, Ron, that stinks. Dry. Math to me. You're supposed to say that for episode 100. Oh, I was I suppose I'm sorry. I forgot I forgot our deal. Wow. I'm so sorry. Well, I left the barn door. I'll get you a new

one. Out. slipped out. We Yep. So that's, that's our two paper towels and Oh, thank you. Thank you, Jen. Batch boosts though, okay, batch big batch of boosts. Let's see. We got to do you know who sent us a boost this week? Or will Oh really? Yes do from the grave. He sent us 1111 SATs through fountain and he says Adam, why did you close our channel? Oh this is so there is a George Orwell's and I know the channel

because you know we about 140 channels. And so I go through them regularly to see how everything's doing if we got some good health on the channels everything. And from time to time. What are you laughing about? I'm just laughing because George Orwell complained about you closing this chant? Yeah, well, from time to time. l&d just closes channels and then people say, Hey, man, why don't you close my channel? I didn't and of course I had no way to respond to this, but I saw the

booster Graham come in on my own helipad. And like Ah, man, I'm glad we hit that one because I want to say I didn't just give me your your ID and and we'll open a new one. No problem. This is a long standing bug within lnd ever gonna fix in this ODOT 15 or whatever it is. He says, George says I just wanted to support you with forwarding payments with zero base fee. Yes. Well, sure. Thank you. We appreciate that. Now, this

has happened to us with with our huge family channel to pay. I mean, it's just closed randomly before. Yeah, that really sucks. When that happens. No hard feelings. George. George followed up again with 111 111 11. He says, is that number 111 11 111 1111 1111? Yes. Because sometimes when I'm listening to no agenda or another podcast where you are in the value split, I got an error. So assume that had something to do with inbound liquidity.

Okay, no, that's different. If there's if there's an error in the value split, that could be my note at home was down or that could be something else. I don't know. I don't know it. I don't think it was on yalls end. Not your fault for sure. It's a mystery. Yes. Abel Kirby says 8888 says there carry a caster and he says, Pew Thank you. Michael. Sean Becker sent us 10,000 says 10k big monster Casta Matic and he says first booster gram Oh, he's pumped to boost gram cherry he says have

been around since DSC days go podcasting. Oh no. Don't boost boost Thank you. Welcome. We get to say we were all there. The day that he no didn't lost his buddy. Boost virginity if if you were listening to his daily source code, you get to say hi, I'm old Roy Schonfeld Arias 54 321 bombshell through breeze and he says, I missed you guys. We miss you too. Roy. Roy, did you see his his post his Medium post which also went up on Bitcoin magazine? I have it

right here in my hand. Yeah. Follow up to GGS This is very interesting. And this isn't an industry wide push the way I see it now. To change the word wallet into something else, which I think Roy is proposing payment, you know, app a payment app if using a podcast and just the podcast app. And I'm not quite sure why this seems like there's a little more behind it. Why is everyone running away from the and I? The way it's explained in the articles? I completely get it, buddy too.

But what okay, I mean it that's a hard one. I wonder if it's just a sort of, do you know what we're talking about? Chris? Barry, completely lost? I'm following you. Yeah, there's Roy wrote an article in the name of you want to go read it as I think I actually did come across this one. And and the idea sort of is, is that while it turns off new users to term, right, yeah, yeah. And then in general, just inaccurate, you know? Because it's not really what, it's not really what wallets do. And so I

agree with it. But I wonder if this is just a spontaneous sort of thing of trying to take it, take the nomenclature away, because maybe it's causing trouble with App Store submissions, or when they see wallet, I get it in the context of web three, when you're gonna log into a website with your wallet that feels weird and broken. But having, you know, 10,000 SATs in a lightning wallet on my podcast

app, I don't have any problem with that at all. If I were going to change any nomenclature around Bitcoin, I would change mining into producing because mining creates a visualization in your head that's resource intensive, but producing that's fresh and clean. So let's focus on that. Not on the wallet thing. Okay, yeah, it's like you're burning the ocean. You're boiling the oceans mining. Reducing Bitcoin. That's a great thing. But the wallet This doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

I don't know if I have an opinion on it yet. I mean, to me, I think you're right. David seems like this is because there's so much legal framework stuff being done around wallets, you know, the EU is probably leading and go bad wallet, and whatever. And hosted wallets, all this kind of stuff. And I think from a political angle moving forward, it makes sense to say no, this is really just some keys. And this is just a way for you to sign something so people know that you approve this,

which is like a keychain sort of sort of a name case. Yeah, I mean, keychain but but man you're it's a it's a uphill battle. I mean, just look at the iPhone has a wallet and the wallet. It contains your Apple Pay and your driver's license and god knows what else is. It's hard. It's hard to that's a tough one. It's almost like you know, YouTube, I got a podcast. I'm on YouTube, like, what am I going to say? Well, no, but

okay. I don't know, interest is an element of using the term wallet to help with adoption for new users. It's least something they kind of can wrap their head around when it's such a new tool. But then why? Then why are they saying it's bad for adoption? I just don't agree. Maybe I think it is. In some cases, I can already feel Roy getting ready to call me tomorrow. No, no, this is this is the way this the way this this is the system working. We say things against what he wrote. And so

he'll have to boost us again. Next. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yes. I'm gonna pick up the phone. Yeah, just boost us. Boost us with your opinions. Roy. Goes to everybody. Yes, it's bait, boost bait and 10,000 SATs from dude into fountain. And he says it he says 10k set minimum for boost reads. Oh, no, that's pretty high. That's pretty high. Maybe we'll get there. If we're really successful. We'll get there. We'll see ya. Alberto. I have to assume this is out there tomorrow.

says.com says 200 says now we really don't. We just implemented the 1000 sat limit, really? But when Alberta sends you a boost, from our sense, you have to read it. Okay. You're coming in cold, Alberta? Yes. Podcasting. He says podcasting 2.0 To the Moon. Okay. All right to the moon. When you're gonna say to the moon, you gotta bring more than 200. SAS? Yeah, I think so we have mere mortals podcasts, and it's a row ducks 2222 through fountain and he says, I like that Tom did that motion to look

for the positive side of things. It's a really refreshing mindset, the motion of positivity. Thanks for your ducks. If you've ever hung out with Tom for very long, he's just a happy guy. He cannot he cannot stay on the negative side of things for very long. I can say I can hang out there forever. But I was born a cynic Kevin bass and is 100,000 SATs Whoa, through fountain and he says this might be a really bad idea. But what

if someone put together a podcast index conference? It's really bad at this conference, it would be focused only on software hardware, namespace standards, value seminars, crypto onboarding, hands on and anything else except advertising and growing your show? All the things that are not advertising and Gorani just a thought podcast, you will go podcast and do that sounds a bit like sounds a bit like the hackathon to me. Yes, Chris. I did. Thoughts on the hackathon. Is it a good idea?

I I would I would go to a podcasting Judo conference. So yeah, I think a hackathon is a great idea. I think I think you'd be surprised. Okay, I think people want to I want they want to get together. They want to strategize and they want to build tools around this. I want you know, I keep thinking every time you guys talk about something, I think, Okay, what's my workflow for that? How am I going to integrate that? How do

I get all my hosts on board? You know, that kind of stuff. And anytime you get a chance to just chat with people in person and talk about that kind of stuff. It feels like you get like two months worth of stuff done in like, in one week. That's true history. We were going to Podcast Movement. We're going to do a talk there. So I think what we could do is instead of creating a podcasting 2.0 conference, we could just slowly over the next few years by them over more and more. That's my strategy.

By that's what I do by them. We got to note follow SATs. Bitch, what is this place cost? Karen for the mere mortals podcast. He sent us 9494 SATs there Curio Castro, he says boosting because you guys are awesome. I missed p 2.0. as well. Thanks, Carrie. We missed you too, brother. Sure did. Now, James Crillon came in with a droopy boost of 150. Oh, sorry. Oops, no, no, take that back boost boost.

He says, ha, I didn't call Adam a dick. Just there's a potential personality clash between you and some others in the industry. Not a criticism. You speak your mind. And I welcome that. Oh, interesting. So first of all, if I hadn't made it clear, that was all on me, James. I immediately thought you were calling me a dick. My wife called me down. She's like, now you're seeing this the wrong way. Which is why I love her why I'm married to her. So and I sorry if that wasn't apparent. I

don't think there's personality clashes. Some people just dicks. There's no clash. There's no clash. I have no problem but I do speak my mind. And if people don't like it, then it seems like everyone else in the industry speaks their mind. Certainly people at Spotify say what they what they feel and what they believe. No lack of speaking, no of mine. There's no podcasts and I like that. That's the way it should be. It's good.

I think. I think the results are speaking for themselves. Yeah, and I wish only everybody well, but I do kind of want everybody to play the play in the same fields, you know. So if you want to go off and do your own thing, good, Bubba Jameson, another 150, SAS, and he says, I've never I've not ever called them quote, silly internet tokens, unquote. Yes, I heard him say that. Maybe not silly. Okay, I've called them in the past internet tokens or internet money because I recommend

the money he said funny money. I find the money money. That's it funny money. That's it funny money. He doesn't matter because yeah, sorry. I was at it. No. Yeah, he says because I reckon the word cryptocurrency turns many people off. Yeah. Alan turns me off. I hate I hate calling it crypt. I call it value for value. You don't see me here. You don't hear me saying crypto ever a man. We're using crypto. Now. That's horrible that that's repellent. Value for value is? But yeah.

Okay. But I'm just saying in the beginning. Yeah. When we first started off, there was a lot of resistance. And people like what is this? There was a lot of resistance talk, you know, just like funny money, whatever. All I'm saying is, I love what I'm seeing. I love how you know when I when I have to hear not have to when I hear on a podcast, I don't produce that. I'm just a

listener of fan of pod land. And that's where I hear about announcement between lb haven't met the lb guys on the social and rss.com I mean, that I immediately texted my wife said so unbelievable what's happening. Fuck marketing. This should just works. It's just it's so good. People just wanted that just using it. And they're talking about it that it makes me super happy. People buy $10 A SATs and spin them? Isn't a SAT and internet

token? Or do we need to confuse and complicated by talking about crypto to a public that does not understand crypto? No, we don't need to use the word crypto at all its value for value and we do it with SATs and then how you get those. Now you have to be a crypto expert. Now if we want to change the nomenclature around something, getting rid of the word crypto, it would be fine by me that that's that word has become I don't use it. I despise it. I never liked it. And I thought I also Bitcoin

to me is in a different category. But I don't want we don't need to have a jihad conversation. I know Chris would be right there with me with his with his Kalashnikov. And your Toyota truck. Going to the hardest. It's a coin dad pod backing us up. So yeah, but yeah, I think it value for value seems to be well understood. And when I didn't want to look at get alby.com They've got a whole value for value description. I love this. It can it can be a little different for everybody. You can

describe it in different ways. This I think is the big eye opener. We struggled for months and months and months about a website and marketing and, and nomenclature and words. And the best things have just have happened without look. Did we ever market booster Graham the term though we just started using it. Pod ping lit. Oh my god, I hear people saying Oh, no. Like Todd Cochran is talking about the show is lit. I mean, it doesn't even make sense to someone who has no we're talking

about what we're using it. And that's, that is so powerful. So that means that the My hunch? And what I think I've always said is that when people start talking about innovation or something new in podcasting, and they do it on their podcast, it propagates and then someone hears that tell someone else they tell a host it's its own kind of slow, very slow, but it's a it's a slow wave of marketing that is unbelievable in podcasting, it's unparalleled in any other industry.

And if I could jump in I would just say I think a lot of credit goes to you Adam for giving podcasters a language to express these ideas and then you're starting to see the network effect of more and more people using that language. And you know it started with you and John All I want is a plaque just a plaque doesn't matter we're in Texas it doesn't have to be you know, and you can burn me and smoke me and clay Jackson Brown the loadout Everything else is

fine just the plaque on plaque. That's all I need. It seems fair. Jackson Brown. My death song and you're slamming it can't handle Jackson Brown. This you don't like the loadout? No, I something about his something about his voice. Okay, well, all right. Chris. uninvite Dave from my funeral please. Okay. He's not allowed to listen I'm allowed James Crillon again 1001 sets and he says and because the other two booths I said, here's another one.

There it is. Okay. Well played. Well, I was about to complain about that too. Well played. Well played, sir. I'm looking forward to hanging out with. With James a Podcast Movement. Yeah, let's drink some beers. Satoshi streams and it's 5552 through fountain and with a heart and with a heart emoji. Oh, booze. Thank you. So nice. Cast VLAN 4550 through fountain and he says he folk I never do a live show boost. I guess it was a no agenda boost where you're

calling out. You were calling out on podcast in Tupelo. 93 Oh, I had fun and earn 160 SATs. I don't get I don't get the earnings so far. You can have them you can have them. Keep on the work. Keep up the work boost. Thanks. Thank you very much. Thank you guys. George Orwell coming in again. 2222 Rilla ducks and he says nevermind it was a force close. There it is. Complaint complaint followed up and then resolved all with money. Thank you. Work. Sorry. It works.

Chris, did you you were a naughty freelancer for a while. Right? A long time? Yeah. Long time. Do you remember? I don't know the origin of this. But do you remember the it it was it was a list called the I think it was like it achievements. Okay, they were no, they they looked you know, they're based on Xbox achievements. And so they would have they would have a name and

an icon and then a description of it. So like, one of them was one of them was I forgot the name of the it was like Dominator or something that was said to fix a problem by doing nothing. And so you know, it's like those people that call you on the on the Help Desk and they're like, Hey, I've got Okay, nevermind in the hangar. Yeah, my favorite one window was that's basically what just happened here with. With him he fixed his own problem. But my favorite one of those was called

areola bold. It was fun to secret pornstache in somebody's fonts folder. Did it ever come in handy? Oh, yes. I've gotten that achievement many times. Yeah, oh yeah. And what do you do? Do you follow up and say it with an email Hi employee we've noticed some case it was the owner so I just basically a wink and a nod and I just got myself a longer term contract. Extend extension. Yeah. Cole McCormick one cent is 3333 cents through fountain and he says I would like to motion for

positivity and high THC percentages. The board meeting deserves top shelf stuff. Nothing but the best of the board. Thank you go see Nomad Joe says 1234 SAS through curio Castro and he says testing curio caster they were they worked? Yes test successful. In BS since 33 333 through fountain nice since you go podcasting in BS mollusk send us 10,000 SATs through fountain he says I would love to see Chris Fisher invited as a guest on the show. Your Your wish is our command.

Thanks for the great work really delivering that you have. Yeah, I mean, you brought people before you even before they even realized that you brought people. This was fantastic. Lyceum 22 to 22 of the humongous row of dogs and he says I've tried to add the row of ducks number 2222 Satoshis to the booster gram numerology page on GitHub. I've probably crashed the page now. How many ducks could have? How many ducks could you have in a row? All the best Martin Lind discard well I see him theropods.

Oh, yeah, Martin. He's another one of these podcast listeners who showed up and is boosting shows and is tweeting and is helping promote it's beautiful. Yes, fantastic. He's all over the place. He twittering blueberry. What a blueberry. He sent us a big fat road ducks 22 to 22 and he says oh hell yeah. This past Sunday for episode 107 We successfully deployed IRC, a cough IR cacophony with IRC capitalised, SC IR cacophony, which is an IRC tool that

allowed us to hear different pew sounds. Different amounts boosted Nice. Oh like that. So join helipad is so advanced now or will be so advanced you don't have to look at some measly boost. Now we wait for the fire Work sound effect that we know it's good. It was very surreal to have producers boost in firing off their own ISOs of Alex Jones and Jim This is a cool idea I like this so you can fire up different

sounds based upon the number of the boosted grandma is good. You should we could just have a full time stream that just does nothing but that if you ever have a selection of whatever and you just boost gets queued up in my reading this right he says it was very surreal to have producers boost in firing off their own ISOs have Alex gently did they? Are they somehow providing the morale of their musket? I don't know. I love I liked this idea no matter

what it is. That's terrifying. No, it's fantastic. Think of it just a 24 hour seven stream and you know minimum minimum boost is you know, 10,000 or whatever. And are you 10,000 You get a one minute sound clip played. I'm just dreaming once again, but I can see that I can see listening to it. Like oh, I'll listen to this crazy stuff. That would get nuts. He says very cool. questionably legal, no permission required. Very questionably legal. Very questionable. Running with Scissors.

Yes. NECA Pfeiffer 7777. Lucky numbers a strike. Getting a striper boost. He says getting my boost in early due to a busy meeting scheduled today. Very nice. Thank you. Good. And this limiter college Chris, listen to Chris jumping in like he's been in the boardroom forever. You're such a podcast or room for weeks such podcasts boost, boost, boost, comic strip blogger follow series 15,033. SAS through fountain and he says, How do you Dave and Adam,

do you know any movie director who needs British actor? I'm asking. No, I only know one. Same here asking because Gregory William Forsythe Foreman from Kidd, who previously years ago was working as BBC actor is reviving his actor career now. Right anyways, I invite your audience to listen to our podcast about artificial intelligence. Just enter AI dot cookie in your web browser or podcast app.

So it's so amazing. This it really works. Every podcast is getting boost from from CSV and everyone knows AI dot cookie, friends of mine like Hey, what's that AI dot cooking show? And everybody knows that CSV is the cheapest person on the planet. For him to send anything. Yeah, it's working. It's working. Yeah. monthly donors that was our boosts monthly donors through

Pay Pal subscriptions is Tim Hudgins. $25 He's my buddy, David would find $3 Duane Goldy $8 Paul Erskine $11.14 Michael Goggin $5 Charles current $5 Christopher reamer $10 Shawn McCune $20 cone glotzbach $5 and James Sullivan $10. No, thank you all so much for those monthlies. Couple other late entrants in the lit boosts. 50,005 sets from blueberry. And he says from 2012 to 2019, I would ask our audio guy to on tour to do one final soundcheck with the loadout by Jackson

Browne. That song hits deep Thank you blueberry. Screw Dave Jones. In there, do you add? No, I added that. Sir Spencer 12345 I'll read this one because it's a shameless plug. Laureen and I will be interviewing notorious chyron down on bowls with buds live Sunday after no agenda. Love to all the hard working but board members and floydian slips who's just he just keeps on going. 3333 The only way to tell who's boss is to put your bells on the table.

Ain't that the truth? That was on the table? Yes. Chris, I want to I want to thank you for your podcast. Linux unplugged on my daily drivers Linux Mint on a surface go version three, which is quite enjoyable. And I really liked the podcast, because it keeps me up to speed with what's going on in Linux. You know, sometimes I might look at something I might try it out or I there's something about it that works really well for, for me, you know, a full time Linux user, but really very casual in

in getting out of the box or anything like that. And it's a really good show. And I want to thank you for producing that and doing it. Well. Thank you. That's great to hear. You're welcome. You know, really I was just thinking how great is it really because that's quite the compliment coming from you. So I really do preach Shadid if if we're saying our thank yous, thank you guys, really, I think podcasting needed this. I don't know if I feel like it's too cliche to say it, but maybe

we're saving podcasting right now right here. Maybe I'm witnessing it with you guys. So with no meetings, Chris, no. Keys, no meetings with anybody really? Yeah, yeah. Well, let's everybody, that's what's so beautiful about it, we just we just the catalyst, that's because of where we were in our lives and what we want to do with our lives. And, and I think that needs to be a lot more mentoring, because I think we are older Dave and I are older than most people probably. In

the world in the universe. I'm older than wood. I'm older than wood. But I like it. I like seeing young energetic talent from all kinds, just in some of the older dudes to Hey, Todd, I see you. You know, this is really important, because the only kind of mentoring that's I guess, official was like, podcasts Academy, you know. So we can't necessarily tell anyone

how to make a successful podcast or content. But there's a lot of people around us who have great ideas and are being very successful and just becoming a part of it is, it's, again, it's one of the best things I've ever participated in my life. It's I'm always astounded by how beautiful things work out in this in this project. Yeah, you know, you guys have been joking about the motion for positivity. But I'm serious. This show is like my positive

moment of the week. I, I always listen on the way home because ultimately, even if you know, Spotify is doing something stupid, or, you know, Andreessen, what's his face is doesn't know about happening, like, yeah, that stuff. It's annoying. But when you zoom out and witness what's happening, and when you see the kind of the podcasters getting it, you see the audience getting it, you see the app developers are getting it, posting platforms will catch up, or will just build around?

Well, they're already they're on board. They're on board there. They are pushing hard. Yeah. Yeah. Chris, I would like it seemed appropriate to give you the opportunity to follow the first pimp. Oh, and tell him tell the board. Is there any? Is there any enhancements or things that you think should be done in podcasting? To what what are your Do you have an idea that you've been thinking of that you would like to submit to the pin board?

I'll be honest with you, I think it's I think there's still so many of the very initial ideas that we needed to see wider adoption. That's where I'm at, you know, I come from the Linux community. And I've been a little surprised that there's

been a slower uptake over there, it's not totally slow. There's there are a lot of people get it, because I feel like what's being developed here could eventually one day apply to free software as well, if you get people on the Lightning Network that are listening to a Linux podcast, and some other Linux

podcasters get on there. And you start having 1000s of people that are on the Lightning Network that like Linux, and then free software projects start getting on the Lightning Network, I think you could see people supporting free software pretty quick. So I kind of I can see this growing beyond just podcasting. But in terms of that stuff, I feel like there's still so many things that we need apps to support or we need the

ability to do via the web or that kind of stuff. So I don't know I my motion would be to focus on the on the core features and really just get adoption out there. But there's only so much you guys can do directly about that. Right? But you innovate but adopt adoption is up to podcasters. Right? That podcasters got to tell their their their listeners, their communities, their whatever you want to call them, their producers. You that's how that's the only way it spreads. That's, that's what

works. That's your one. One person talking about? It goes to 1000 10,000 You know, whatever a podcast has this. That's it. That's the adoption. There's no, no yeah, we could spend 50,000 be gold with with diamond tip sponsor a Podcast Movement and get a keynote out of it not accusing anyone of everything. I'm just saying that's, that's a way you can do it that but that money, the money's not there. And quite frankly, I think this is not the future of any anything that we're looking at.

shits falling apart. Now these streamers are in trouble. Podcast tivity they know this is it's very positive. Well, and I think this, but I think this what you're saying Chris is both for me. Now, I'm a participant in the show. But the way I see it is, you know, there's all these things that are going on, and this is in trouble. And these guys are shit. And they're doing that and Apple doesn't care. But I always know but look at this great group of people doing cool shit, and it's just

moving forward. And I don't use apple. I use things that work for me and the people who listen to my podcast. Like no agenda is not on Spotify hasn't heard me because the people who want to listen to me, they will get an app that works for them. So the adaption part, it's if you can get your own audience to adopt it. That's the key that everyone needs them. I can work it work at a local level. Get your own audience to adopt it. everything else falls into place.

I think that's it. That's a that's really well said. And I feel like as a podcaster, that's been doing it for a while, I've always felt like I'm just out on my own doing this all by myself just doing my own thing, which has been fine. There's elements of that I've liked a lot. But as we've started getting more and more into the podcasting to Dotto community, it's felt like now we're part of something bigger, and something that's

trying to make the medium better. Yes. And the motivations are pure, and it's something that feels healthy to me as somebody who makes his living off of this i and that's it. There's an element of that, too. It's like this is spot on for my business spot on. You're exactly right. It's a lot better to unify as a, as an as an industry or as a lot better to unify around features and innovation than it is to round award shows. Yeah, and $200 memberships to the podcast. Okay.

I'm sorry, it's I don't want to sound negative. And I agree with you. You would just yeah, it's just a lot more fun. We're getting more done. Everyone's welcome to participate is decentralized, but we're peered you know, it's like we're law and also there's so much money drive trying to drive success from Spotify from Amazon wondery. Who else is in the game? I mean, there's, there's such a drive to turn it into kind of a Hollywood, that now as a podcast, or like you, Chris,

we are now known as Indies. And I just hate that. I mean, I love that I'm independent, but don't put a label. I'm a podcaster. Don't call me an indie podcast. And yeah, it's really it's rude. I'm a very successful podcaster. And I feel like what's happening on the on kind of like the back end is we're building this this network that is available to all podcasters that is completely decentralized. Yet everybody's

incentives aligned. Exactly. It's, it's, it's, it's great. If like a podcaster, who makes a competing podcast to me, I win if they start taking votes. That's, that's pretty powerful. Yep. Yeah, you win big time you beat out the whole system. Yeah, it's an it's a network effect. And it just grows. And so you could have these centralized entities like Spotify or Apple trying to generate revenue models around podcasting. I have, you know, I've seen that go. And I've seen

them, try it. I've seen others try it. I've seen it fail. But this is something decentralized. And that, to me feels more sustainable. It's more true to RSS, which, and podcasts which is decentralized, right, it's just really in line with all of it. I like it a lot. So thank you guys, really forgetting it's going. And there's a lot more coming. There's a lot of apps and services that that have approached us and that are

working on stuff. And I think we're going to be very surprised and the next next six months just of the adoption, it's this. You can feel it everywhere. It's just happening and, and we're kind of removed from it, which I love. That's what I like so much. It's like there's no talk about Dave and Adam, per se. It's just podcasting. 2.0 love that. Yep. Yep, for sure. Oh, he's just a few spaces removed, though. You know, I think people know, people know, we know what the work you guys are doing.

I guess my point is doesn't matter. That's what makes it successful. Doesn't matter. David, I have to remind each other and say, Hey, man, did you notice that this thing is kind of working? Oh, yeah, you're right. Yep. So Dave, closing comments. Dave, have you already let us board the board room? No, no, you call me coming out the bathroom? The see? What is this? What is that from? That's an ISO of Tod B. That's end of show right there. Whatever that is, is beautiful.

You're welcome. Yeah, I've got something else but it's a big topic. Let's save it for next week. Okay, excellent. Chris Fisher's. You can find them Jupiter broadcasting.com I believe. Jupiter broadcasting comm request for Jupiter broadcasting.net. This is our test site. Our community is building us a new website and I'd love feedback. Cool, cool. Yeah, they can let us know and GitHub, Jupiter broadcasting dotnet is our in Development website.

And of course, they file a pimp at Jupiter broadcasting on GitHub. Well, I guess you know, a boring old issue. Okay. Not everybody can be a pimp. Then of course the the outstanding Linux unplugged podcast, really appreciate you dropping by the board meeting and have yourself a great weekend, Chris. Thanks, gentlemen. You too. Okay. Dave, my brother. Have a good one. All right, man. Have a good weekend. Don't go in. I'm off to two Fix a clutch in the truck.

Yeah, it's not what the kids are calling it these days. Go fix the clutch. That's it for podcasting. 2.0 This is the conclusion of the board meeting catch us back here next week until then see everybody You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org For more information be