Episode 85: Loot The Room!

podcasting 2.0 for May 13 2020 to Episode 85 Lose the room and we are lips. It means the live item tag is in effect finally, more about that in a moment. Hello everybody. Welcome to podcasting 2.0 The official board meeting for podcasting 2.0 we discuss the podcast namespace, the podcast standards, everything happening at podcast index dot social. And we got a guest today I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in

Alabama. He parses feeds faster than pod paying my friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, say hello to Mr. Dave Jones. What up? You know, QA? Do you know that QA QA? Yeah. Isn't my cousin like short for cousin? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. What up? What up? Yeah, when you have me have an 18 year old who's stuff in your house with a broke leg? You? You get a lot of unscheduled together time with dad. Yeah. And, you know, I'm learning all the lingo.

Oh, okay. Now, I was gonna ask you about this. Do you Lord this over him in a way kind of like, you know, once in a while just to remind him that he's that he's a shit kid. I mean, do you just say hey, by the way, you know, look what I'm doing for you. Yeah. I don't not not that angle. I take more the angle if you're at my mercy. And it's excellent. It's just little parenting insider stuff. It's, it's fun for parents to do. It don't get cute.

Um, and so second attempt at using all of the live item tag the lit infrastructure for our for our board meeting today. Instead of shitshow this was a live show, because this is this was a mess. Yeah, like 3030 minutes of pre show, fiddling around with forces feed caches. And like there was it was fun

because like, in my mind, I'm envisioning Adam and Mitch. Like with those big like we those big stone wheels from medieval times with the with a big with a humongous set of scissors to sharpen in the head sharpening. sharpening stone that spins around your head down sparks flying everywhere. You know, just firing up some scissors. Why don't we bring Mitch in right away, man because he we've already been talking to him for half an hour trying to get all

this stuff. Right. So you should know him as the master behind pod verse. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the board meeting. Mitch Downey. Hey, what's up, fellas? Fellas? High gave me a hard time for guys last time. Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah, QA. What? UPCA? Yeah, long time no talk, Mitch, except from just a few minutes ago, when then when the craziness went down? I mean, are we live now? Do we wait now we're

definitely live. And actually, Mitch, you've been at you and Steven B have been on the forefront of this of this lit stuff, the live item tag. And and you have some other I mean, I don't really understand even what what, what the pod verse life paying and notification is doing. But we're certainly not doing it right here. And part of that as part of that is because I use sovereign feed. And and, you know, that outputs an RSS

file that I then put on the server. And that's a a custom made content delivery network that was not really intended for a lot of changes in files to be reflected immediately. So and which is because of the massive traffic and data it has to deliver several times a week. So you know, there's all kinds I presume, would you say? That's right, Dave? That's why he's why it's all complicated. Because

yeah, yes. Like the end, the NA, the no agenda network. CDN is tuned, over many years of trial and error to handle over a million downloads of traffic within a few hours. Yeah, like within you. It wants to be able to handle hundreds of 1000s of downloads, you know, within just a span of like an hour. Yeah. And so the way the the caching is set up, and this, this is what I'm understanding, because I've talked to Mark York, yeah, way back when he first started setting up like varnish and the

way the caching works. I was helping him out a little bit and we were fiddling with some stuff and in trying to get all this to work and I think he just tuned it very specifically to be aggressively cached so that it can handle all that and that's not really helpful. I'm really how quick testing. Yeah, but the problem is I have to have Have my RSS feed on the same infrastructure? Because when I didn't? Well, you saw the bandwidth bills. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was, you know, it's a nightmare. But you

know what, what we could do, though. Okay. What we could do is and now I was thinking about this in light of sovereign feeds with with the new web hook delivery, which is awesome, which is already being implemented. Uh huh. So by the answer show, do it FTP. Yeah, you tell me that. Yeah. Do you know about this, Mitch? Did you see

that? No, I don't. Yeah. So sovereign faces. Steven has it coded up where sovereign feeds when you publish a change, it will deliver the entire feed in a web hook of your to a web hook URL of your choosing. So you can have it just rather than having to generate the feed, save it to a file, copy and paste it or upload it to a CDN, you just set up your CDN to receive the web hook and they can just drop it where it needs to go. When you hit publish, very sexy. Yeah, that'd be great. We

need automated tools. Yeah, yeah, that was that would solve a lot of stuff right here. And you know, the cache busting things is my own personal issue. But go ahead and this the issue is definitely cash I would say based on the looks of it, the this is a good test, because it shows that this is a challenge we need to solve that. Typically, an RSS feed you don't need instantaneous updates from King is usually a good

thing, right? But for live notifications that are embedded within the RSS and using pod ping, we need it to refresh and also force all the clients that are going to pull from it to get that that latest version. So we did have successful tests with behind the schemes and ball after ball earlier this week. Oh yeah, no, I different sir Spencer's in the chat gone. I know this works. It all works. You guys just don't know what you're doing. Okay, Boomer.

See what the higher Spencer consultant is? Yes, we do it. Here's the login you do it? Yeah, that's actually not a bad idea. You know, sometimes I'm so tired after after longer shows I make dumb mistakes. And when you make a dumb mistake on the on the RSS feed, it's painful. This is something that I need to talk to Alex about. Because we know the caching thing has come up before we've discussed it.

And I'm thinking that we may want to change the spec, the live or the status change spec within pod paying to maybe put in put in a URL parameter or something at the end of the cache buster. Well, I check your phone if you have notifications enabled. And do so tell us about this part. Mitch, so pod verse now has actual notifications popping up. When when your favorite podcast

goes live? Yeah, we added notifications both for new episodes, which is a very commonly requested feature and now with live feeds, you know, live streams going live. And I did just receive a notification on my phone. This is live podcasting. 2.0 Yes, I'm seeing that in the chat room now too. Cool. Awesome. Why am I not getting it? I wonder if it's this phased rollout or something? Right. And so I know curio caster is working. But not for

me yet. So that's, you know, that can just be brave caching. You know, caching is good and bad. Yeah. We'll figure this is really good and bad. Yes. If people go to pi. I got it. Even says on air. Oh, cool. Hell yeah. Nice. I still don't have it yet. I wonder if you know if sorry. No, that's, that's on the computer. Oh, sweet. So, Mitch, does the does the bad thing. I'm running the beta and testflight? Does it have separate notification settings? Do you know on iOS?

I hope everyone's following along and going, you know, dude, what are these dudes do and talk about stuff? You're just playing on your phone? Yeah, this is crazy. Okay. So that works. That's very cool. Mitch. Fantastic. Steven V. Fantastic. I love this. And I'm gonna throw out another challenge. Speaking of Alex gates for the board meeting in the board meeting

only. I just bought this fantastic camera for because I do so many The podcast interviews my my lovely wife finally said to invest in something gets this you look like crap. And good for her. Yes. And so I got this. What is it? Bob's bought? So it tracks and you know, so if you move to the left or the right, it's suddenly kind of moves with your head motion can follow you around the room but it's very small works really well I'm extremely happy with it for K

fantastic. I want to stream at least my end video during the board meeting more over the shoulder so you can see what I'm doing then me because that would just be annoying to me. You're gonna you're gonna I want to I want to broadcast video. Through no agenda tube. Oh, I want that to go live. Your brains? Man. I have to do it because I gotta get stuff set up for Mo. True is chomping at the bit, man? You gotta dive in at some point. See, Mike? Yeah, that's why we'll be focused on on the more

what I'm doing than me because the Tourette's? Yeah, the AI just goes crazy. He doesn't know how to follow me. Now if they could make a camera that would automatically smooth the motion, so it didn't look like I had Tourette's the reverse. That would be very cool. That is that would be that would be a highly valuable camera. Well, we're ready to add video live streams. Also, the only blocker for that is that we don't have a stream to test with.

Right. So that's, that's why I throw it out to Alex Gates, who will tell me what I need to do what I need to get. And we'll figure this out. We should be testing this, we should be moving this forward. And this is the place to do it. And I'll have a big shiny pair of scissors here on the desktop. So, Mitch, do you? Do you want to walk and for the benefit of everybody who's listening to this and has absolutely no idea

what we're talking about? Do you want to walk through the steps that happened to happen on the backside now that now that you I would like to hear use, like, give the linkage from step to step of what happens when somebody goes live until the point where it gets a notification on listeners phones, because you just what you just went through all this getting set up with sending pod pings and all that stuff. You want to take a crack at that.

Sure thing. So if a podcaster wants to share their live stream with every app, which is the beauty of podcasting, you put it in an RSS feed and becomes available everywhere. They need to add a new tag podcasting 2.0 tag called Live item to their feed. And then our servers parse out that information like normal. And when we find this feed says a live stream is going live. What Oh, I missed this step, pod Ping has to notify us that the live stream went live. So pod paying sends a signal to

us that tells us to parse the feed. And then we shoot off notifications to every podcast app that is subscribed to that live stream. Cool. Yeah. So that so Hey, on the on the piping side, you got set up, I'm guessing, I don't know if there's, I think Alex that you are not Brian, those, they set you up with some hive posting keys. So you're not you're not sending notifications through pod bean dot cloud, because we are still on version,

point 0.3 of pod paying format. And the pod popping format. One dot O is needed for the live notifications. So you got you've got the new hive watcher, excuse me hive writer, script, and your own set of Hive posting key. So you're writing directly to hive, right? Yeah, correct. Alex has been a huge help getting set up with this. So we have our own pod ping writer running within our server. And so podcasters currently go to our site and

click Start live stream. And that tells all podcasts apps that this podcast is going live. So what does that look like on the dashboard side? Like when you go to Excuse me? Can I just ask a question? So what exactly so I issue a pod ping but I understand that my pod ping is yesterday's news. And so right now as it as a as a bridge, you've created a modern New version with the live pod ping that alerts that goes to pod ping and alerts all apps or just pod verse.

Well, the apps who listen to pod ping get these notifications okay, they just have to opt in to be listening to pod ping. And I guess my free app and RSS so should be doing these days. Right so my so my question is right Now I can, you're graciously making this available. But this should be something that's available in sovereign feed should have the live pod ping, other than the pod ping I have now that Correct?

Correct. Okay. So sovereign feeds or any company that hosts RSS feeds for podcasters should just make this a simple input and a drop down, like, here's my live show description. My Status is going live now. Hit Save, and then they should handle all this stuff on the back end, the user shouldn't even be aware of it. I have a question about your, in general, just the thinking about this stuff. And since you're an app developer, but I'd love to

ask every app developer we're in essence recreating YouTube. And I say that because in general, podcasts that go live, the majority are live to YouTube, or actually multiple sources, you know, Rumble other backups, whatever they call them. And after that's done, and in our case, it's a little bit different. But with YouTube, then it's, you know, after a while, it appears as, as the uploaded, you know, the, you can

replay it, you can watch it as just a YouTube episode. But it has chat, and it has super chat, which is booster grams that we're using. Haven't seen many boosts by the way Hello. To me, I should open up helipad, make sure I can hear him. So having that in mind, and I don't know if you agree with what I'm saying there. But that's kind of how it feels to me that this will be used more for video, in fact, I think is a YouTube killer with an open source YouTube killer with stuff that

we're doing. Have you considered a UX or UI change for a live item? Versus the kind of traditional This is an episode? View? Well, right now we fit it in with the current experience of episode, but we make sure live goes to the top of the page and is prominently there. That allows us to kind of seamlessly fitted in to what we have currently up. But I mean, hypothetically, we could start live dot pod verse.fm. And it

could be exclusively live streams. We could just, you know, select only that data for shows that are live streams into some. Yeah, that I mean, well, that that so that immediately brings in, you kind of walked into my trap. I wasn't even expecting that. That that that brings up another thing. I don't know if if you followed lb Oh, yeah, I just talked to Bumi. And yeah, the German Gomorrah, it's Wednesday, right? To lovely German guys. I don't know, um, but the German

guys, they're lovely. They are so close to basically having, you know, a wallet for everybody to easily use with, you know, a web based version of any podcast app, once they can, once they identify, you know, so right now the identify the, what do you call it? The, the address, the lightning address, and so they

understand, you know, they give you a lightning address. But they if they see it on a page with a little lightning bolt, then the extent the extension that is Alby recognizes that and so you can you could do the payment information pops up

immediately. I presume that if we gave them away to within with whatever, you know, HTML or code that you put into your page, an identifier so they could pull up the value block from the from the index piece API, then they could in essence become an you know, we could onboard a lot of people who already have an lb. Wallet, right into podcasting. 2.0. Does that make sense? Yeah, that's my understanding. So if we integrate with lb, which would just be as simple on our end as putting some text

information in the file. So right, just we don't have to code anything complicated. You literally just take some V four v tag information, right embedded in your page. And then their browser extension can grab that information. And when you pop open the browser extension, it'll just say, Hey, do you want to send to this podcast? So this is exciting to me? Because you remember, although I'm still digging into the numbers, you might remember 40%

of women listen to podcast just on the website. Yeah. What an opportunity. And I'll just say it again. It is my belief that podcast apps have an incredible opportunity to deliver beautifully designed home pages. And I would I would give you a split in my valuable Lock for that. Because all the other pages that generate a homepage and an episode page for RSS

feeds, they're all 1.0. It's like in the buttons for for iTunes and all that shit stuff I don't want, you know, I want it to be modern, I want it to, you know, all of that should go away or be done in a different way. And I would pay for that I would I put a split in for it for those services. And if that could then automatically detect an lb wallet, big win. Yeah, well, I need to know more about the design requirements for that. But this LD solution will be easy for anybody to add

to any page. So you know, this wouldn't just be limited to that, that like, I don't know, like feature page that you're describing. I mean, this could go on anybody who wants to enable podcasts and 2.0 value tags. I love that. I really do. I think that's it for some reason, because they do key sem just got I got really excited by it. And I was like, Okay, this would be an excellent way to just expose more people to what we're doing. So I want to welcome the lb lb guys to, you know, to the group.

They really are here. Yes. No, no, we love them. Exactly. So you said I'll be does lightning but yeah, just key send mean keys. And I'm sorry, but yeah. Send not receive send. Oh, send? Okay, so yeah, so we're, because that was what I was about to say we. So I went down the rabbit hole of working with Roy. Good because I started with Roy about this. And then and he was explaining to me and said, well, it can be done. And I was like, Man, you should talk to Dave. So you guys connected on this.

Yeah, it's funny because I didn't even know that you were talking to him. And I was doing this in sort of independently. We take baby we've been married for so long, you know that we think the same thing. Now we're gonna you know, those old old couples have been married for like 40 years, it started to look a lot. Oh, yeah, is that I'm gonna start getting killer hair really quick. Okay.

But the US like I was talking to you, you know, I mentioned it to you and then started and then I went and posted an issue about this because the lightning address stuff is great. Like Ellen URL, the lightning address part of Ellen URL or with layered on top of it is great. But it doesn't let you in the background what it does when you go to when you take a well, let's see. Let us go to lightning address real quick. Lightning address is basically in it looks like an email

address. So you'd have like Dave at podcaster wallet.com. And then what you do is you take in we talked about this with Oscar last week, you take that thing that looks like an email address and flip it around and then go to pod that becomes a URL. Right? Right, right. HTTP as you know, slash last podcaster wallet.com/dot Well dash known slash. And then it's like an ln URL P B. That's that's the tricky part. Are ln URL P for ln URL?

Pe? Yeah, that's the part that would need to get Kishen. And so it's not quite as simple hooking up to your own node. Yeah, because when you go through that same what's happening on the back end is the URL in your is l and URL is generating an invoice. Yep. And giving it back on that URL. So what what's needed is a way for there to be is it for, for those well known URLs to be resolved, and then give you back a static, very much like a value block. Just give you back a set of

static payment. information. So we're working through that on the telegram group, Roy and the guys in there, I'm not I've just met these guys, I'm not super familiar with what all roles they play. But they what, what it is looking like is there's going to be instead of instead of just my original proposal, which was taking in adding the static payment information as an alt as part of the object return for the URL and URL p. Now, what's going to happen is there'll be an alternative dot

well known URL scheme. So you'll have a that day that podcaster wallet.com will become podcaster wallet.com/dot. Well known slash key send slash DAVE Yes, exactly. That's what you want, that will hand back the static, just a note, a name, a node address, and potentially custom key custom value so that you can do routing to a custodial wallet. That once we get that nailed down in, in, in, in place, yeah, this gets a lot. Now listen to this next bit how this shit all fits together.

Alright, so I get the update notification from Umbral. Right? And I'm always excited about that. Like, let's see what they did, first of all want to see if they've updated the helipad, which appears to have and then there's always new apps. Well tie perfect. And what shows up IPFS podcasting decentralized podcast distribution over IPFS. And yeah, so we're so close to putting all these pieces together. So it appears the way they do it is you create a separate feed initially, to load

everything into the IPFS network. And then you you can use a a gateway for your regular RSS feed. It sounds a little convoluted, but the way I what I looked at their FAQ and there's there's no contact information. I wish there was a guy wanted to get in touch with him. We'll find him. I think this is the alternate enclosure use case. Yeah. I mean, this makes so much sense. And it's right in the umbrella. Now you get into

something pretty interesting. You're starting to put a nice little box together. Yeah. Now, what I see is a humongous, like, truck size basket of scissors is what this this is, this is more scissors than you would find at a Hobby Lobby. I mean, we can't even get lost off the ground. Trying to troubleshoot caching on IPFS I've been down the IPFS road. It hurts. Well, bad. I think I'm gonna sharpen up a pair. And I'm gonna I'm gonna

take a walk down that road just to see how it feels. I can't help myself. Mitch, do you? Do you know or want or love or hate IPFS? I don't know much about it other than conceptually that it's like, it's unsensible distributed content. It's, it's like a DHT for files. A humongous glugging global DHT for files. And then you can see you can I couldn't tell you what DHT means? Like, yeah, yeah, I approach things from more of a user experience. And then I like cobbled together some code.

This is good. So let me tell you the user experience. I haven't Umbral and I'm actually thinking heli pad does this heli pad pops up a different homescreen maybe the first time it says you can podcast all right from this box and has a link to sovereign

feed. And then you record your shit. And then you go to your browser with sovereign feeds and then somehow it automatically uploads the mp3 file just recorded from the computer you're on it puts it on your own bro puts it on IPFS does a live pod pay whatever does all these different things gets you all set up on the value block. Your feed is immediately entirely 2.0 enabled. Then there you have it podcasting in a box with money

washes your hair put some put Julie on your feet. Yeah, I'm just telling you this is an avenue and it's it's no different from Castor pod, just different version different you know, different pieces actually. All of this might fit in perfectly I don't know. I just I and I agree with you about the IPFS stuff. We've had nothing but heartache. But this is working for somebody somehow and it feels like is it for the ICL for for I get the newsletter, I'm always reading it. And for

the IPFS diehards. I think it works just as well as lightning does for us. Yeah, that's a good that's actually a really good analogy. That's actually a pretty good analogy because like yeah, if you get off your fence newsletter, the world's great yeah. Holman. I mean, people you know, people are landing on the moon It's also well, it's not that different. If you look at the lightning labs, PR releases, you know, you just ignore the all the failed payments and just keep

moving on. Yeah, we're gonna work I have a beautiful world, we're going to be transporting stablecoin Oh, that'd be backed by Luna by any chance because that's worth nothing now. Can you please explain to me what? What happened? I know you understand it more than I do. Because what means there's some stable coin that went from like a buck apiece down to zero. What happened this week? Okay. Roy and I even talked about this and Roy's like, I

don't know. Okay, thanks, Roy makes me feel better, because I don't know he's so stable coins. The idea is they're pegged to a fiat currency, which means, instead of selling your as an example, if you wanted to buy, you've got Bitcoin, you want to buy some

ether. Now you can do a direct trade, but maybe you just want to keep it in dollars for a bit because the market, if you're a trader, this is all about trading stuff, if the markets volatile, or there are other scenarios for stable coins, then you can exchange it for a stable coin, which will be just like $1 Only, there's no, there's no possibly no capital gains, hey, there's all kinds of reasons to kind of keep it in this digital realm. And the ideas, the stable coin is about $1, it might be

99.9999 for a minute, and some actually will go 1.01. And this is done in many ways. But the most important thing is it has to be backed by something in case people want to cash out the stable coin into dollars. So typically, that's done by huge hedge fund type deals, they've got billions of dollars. And, you know, they may in which they may have some, this is the this was the problem with the tether, you know, some may be backed by

some securities and not just pure cash. And then there's ways that they can manage the supply of the stable coin, to keep that peg in place. So they're doing it by expanding or contracting the supply as far as I understand. And who is de is that the, the company that owns the stable coin. So in, in us t Tara USD the stable coin, it was backed by Luna, which was a, you know,

another altcoin I won't use the S word. And something happened, because the Luna as far as I understand, there was backing of the Luna by Bitcoin. So when Bitcoin started to go down, they couldn't really liquidate fast enough or enough to have enough cash to prop up the the Luna coin. And on top of that, the Terra the the way they manage their supply. So basically minting new tokens or burning them, destroying them was algorithmically done. So they had an algo that was supposed to

keep this going and something happened. And we'll find out eventually, in general, though, this has far reaching consequences. It's not really a laughing matter. And stable coin by itself, in my opinion, needs to be regulated or outlawed because it's really inflationary to the US dollar. I mean, it's okay with me from a Bitcoin perspective. Go ahead, you know, create more eventually, we'll see what happens in the end. I have my beliefs, but I don't think that's really a good thing

for the US dollar. So that explained anything. Did that explain anything? Yeah, no, that explained it perfectly. Janet Yellen. Agree. And I, and I couldn't be yes, it was a board needed attack to, like, also possible. Yeah, that's also possible. Somebody may have accumulated all of this and then deliberately dumped it on the market. And that, then the Peg, Yeah, value with other assets could hold anymore. And that just became cascading failure, down to, I think, point 0003 cents right now.

Yeah. And we're gonna see more of these horrible things happen as across the board. I mean, I'm a believer, I hear the World Economic Forum. They say the great reset, I believe them because there's been too much that's happening that makes sense in that regard. And when Apple lost 20% This week, okay, that was the last company that really was holding on to something. So we're going into some form of negative economic spiral, or perhaps a recession, who knows? And it's all just

terms, but the cheap money is gone. And that's what happens when the Federal Reserve raises interest rates. So that's what slows down house prices because No, I got a mortgage at just under 3%. Now you can't get one under five. Then that happened quick. That happened very, very. The 10 year The interest rate has doubled in just four months. I mean, so there's a lot going on. But what that mainly means is that no more cheap money, no more cheap money means, well,

where do you see it happen first? Netflix? Why? Because they could just get all the cheap money because shit was just growing. And then when the economy slows down a little bit as people start to make choices, particularly when the markets saturated, well, you know, Netflix hasn't really done all that much for me, I like Marvel Cinematic Universe, so I get my

Disney plus, and maybe I'll have Hulu. I'm not, I don't think that people will easily go back to the advertise the interruptive advertising model, which is, in fact, Netflix's strategy to get out of this, because people have been spoiled. So not only is it money, that's cheap like that, but money that's cheap for companies, for marketing, that's the first place your money always gets cut. The budgets are always cut in marketing, advertising, advertising,

everything. And I know a lot of people in advertising and marketing, they're they're firing entire teams, because the clients are cutting back budgets. And then so you've I mean that now you see the spiral. Now you got people out of work, and all these things started to happen. So when I also hear about some magical number of podcast advertising being at $1.4 billion over 22 years, I'm sorry, there's a couple things one, where's the money going? Who's getting this?

I mean, I Heart Radio 65 million. Okay, that's not even near a portion of the big money. And I think most of this is just, it's, I mean, I'd have to really delve into the numbers, but I don't believe that there's $101.4 billion roaming around podcasting. And that 85% of that is programmatic ad insertions. I just have a hard time believing it. But regardless, it's a trailing indicator. It's a trailing indicator of a

different year. And I don't think you're going to see good news coming out of podcasts is going to be the first place they'll cut. I would like to companies looking at Oh, sorry. No, no hidden Mitch. I was gonna say any large companies trying to get into podcasting, seeing it as a potential cash cow aren't just in for disappointment. That's another thing is no one's making any profit. Spotify is not making profit, I Heart Radio, not making profit, no one's profiting.

Right. And what podcasting is good for is, you as an individual or a small group, want to reach your audience directly, as directly as possible. And then you build a relationship with them. And then they, out of their own choice basically decide to support you either through getting your premium content may be able to get advertisers involved, but the idea of a giant corporation being able to make revenue to their satisfaction, you know, as publicly traded companies with

billions of dollars, I don't see it happening. You know, Facebook scrapped their plans after a year. Yeah, those guys know that you they can't make money with you can't monetize the network. They figured it out real quick that like, this is not going to work for us. And it's going to be a pain in the ass because everyone's going after podcasters because you know, they're the disinformation the mega disinformation giants. Well, this, this fits it. I'd like to have the board's

attention for a moment. Okay, hold on a second. Dave Jones pod sage has the talking stick. Port a point of personal privilege. I would like to speak momentarily about brand safety. brand safety is on the table so seconded and move okay. You know, the thing that Tom, Tom Webster was interviewed on pod land yesterday, and I heard as a as a general rule, I don't usually play potluck clips. But I brought some today and I mean, Tom Webster. He seems like nice dude. I've never met him but

none of this is a criticism with him. I mean, he's seems like a fine guys ad, you know, Advertising Research guy. He's a radio guy. He's an old time radio guy. Yeah. So you know, you can go into he's talking in this first clip about hearing Todd Cochran show for the first time and that that's what attracted him initially not Do you want to

explain who he is? He just can't he was from Edison Research and led a lot of their research efforts on radio and podcasting and I think other types of media too but sure, those two for sure. And then he just left and went over to join Brian Barletta, which sounds profitable. Now is sounds profitable. Is Cridland, also a partner in that? I don't really understand the relationship. James will have to explain that but I mean, I thought they were all part of the same. That's

what I thought too. I tried to look the other day couldn't figure it out. Yeah, it's, I mean, I think his I think it all comes from the same newsletter generator because they all right, they all have the same format. Right. But, um, but I think sounds profitable started as a as an imprint of, of pod pod news.

Right? Yeah. But I could have that all wrong. Anyway, he, you know, he's, he's talking about Todd Cochran show geek news, central being way, way back being the first show that he heard, and what attracted him to it in this first clip? Yeah, it's geek News Central podcast Hall of Famer, Todd Cochran. I'm pretty sure that was the first podcast that I discovered, and it was really early days, it's probably the

very end of 2004. And Todd was just getting started. But he was talking about things that you weren't going to hear on broadcast radio. And at that time, a lot of my portfolio was broadcast radio, and yeah, so what what he's saying brought, you know, interested in him and got him sort of hooked into podcasting was this idea that what he heard, he's like, I'm hearing stuff on podcast that you can't hear in mainstream media. That was the

thing that brought him in. And that's the thing that brings a lot of people in because you feel like you're getting a chance to hear people as they really are, or maybe views about things that you didn't get did or more sanitized and curated on mainstream media. For a lot of people. That's a big draw. And evidently, it was for him to and that, then that leads them to this discussion of advertising in that net prediction this week. That was like, I don't know, but 2024 $44 billion.

Yeah. So he's got he's what's funny about this is he like, he totally walks away from that. He's like, he's like, I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole. It No, he, he's not going near that prediction. Instead, instead, he starts talking about the barriers to money flowing into podcasting and clip to talking of advertising. We're getting to see the IAB advertising the sixth annual report saying that the next couple of years, certainly by 2024, we're going to see a four

fold increase in the revenues from podcasting. Is that something that you will sing Edison as well as that growth in brands coming to podcasting, it's still got a ways to catch up. And I'm not a big forecaster, my career has been based on describing the present day, as accurate as I can. So I don't know that it's going to

increase fourfold. I know that won't happen by itself. And that's something that Brian and I are going to be very focused on that sounds profitable, is to remove as many obstacles as we can to those dollars getting into podcasting, because right now, if you look at the dollars flowing into podcasting, versus the dollars flowing into broadcast radio, and you compare the listening to the to podcasting is still punching way below its weight I saw, I Hart's revenues were announced this

week. And podcasting was I think, 8% of their overall revenue. Maybe that should be higher, right. I don't think revenues are going up and radio. So I think it will get there. I don't know the timeline that it will get there, but it will get there when some of the obstacles to monetizing all of podcasting, I think are removed and and the way is smoothed. Yeah. I see a lot of money going into brands pod brand podcasting. I wonder if that's getting counted. I see like lots

of money going to sports podcasting. Is that a fair representation of adverts quote unquote, advertising money going into podcasting or as an extension of a brand that as I think you're pointing out, is really not what a lot of people like about podcasting because it's an extension of an existing entertainment product in an in a in the traditional system. Does that makes sense? Dave? Muted Dave. Oh, um, that back crap. Pulled a Mitch. Yeah. Sorry, Mitch. That was

it. Just Just so you guys know. I mean, the noise gate keeps out a lot. And we heard your dog barking tape. It's okay. It's cute. Oh, well, no, I agree. I mean, this you're talking about like ESPN launches. 10 podcasts. Well, even even the NBA has their own podcast series, I believe. Yeah, then so you then you're selling to advertisers. You say oh, you're gonna buy you're gonna buy our TV you also have to buy podcasts.

Yeah, that's that's how Spotify does it with their deals. Well, you know you have to buy Joe Rogan if you want to even buy anything on our network. You know, when the thing that I started Thinking about actually turn the turn the interviewer off started thinking about because he talks about lowering the barriers, that lowering the obstacles to to money flowing into podcasting. And some money just flowed into podcasts. And, and that's that got me thinking, turn it off. I thought

about that for a minute. Because that was that was an interesting description. And I think that we have this, I think there's a milieu, the you know, your favorite or your favorite word now move you million of you that these ideas that permeate our frame of reference, or that aren't really, they're rarely spoken, or sometimes not spoken at all. But I hate to say taken for granted. Because it's not, it's not really a great phrase.

But there's there are things at work that we take for granted that we take for granted and become comfortable with as as an ideas as a part of the ideas set within the thing that we're involved in. And podcasting is no different. You know, it's similar to something like freedoms or something like free speech. People within the quote unquote free speech, community, free speech zone, space, space, free speech space, if free speech absolutist

absolute Yes, yes. And people who care about that I would count myself as one of them. We assumed things, like, one thing you might assume is, is that everyone who is is giving their their ideas publicly believes they're true, that that might be a thing that you share, and it is unspoken, and we all just sort of take it for granted. And so then our frame of reference then becomes influenced by that where we think okay out, because we think that people are just honestly trying to speak their

the thing that they think is true. outlawing that thing is, is unconscionable, because you're criminalizing even though they might be wrong, you're criminalizing being wrong. These things begin to they permeate your, your, your your group or your milieu, and did and then you but they're not spoken out loud. And I think that's something similar is going on

here. Sort of like what goes in and own in a newsroom where you just sort of pick up over time this, okay, you don't you don't report on this sort of thing, or you do report on this sort of thing. Or when you do report on this thing. You you say these phrases or or anything that goes wrong in the United States is Trump's fault. Yes. previous administration. Yeah. And you say it out loud, you know, in because everybody else is doing it that way. is I think something similar is going on?

Yes. I think that's rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Yeah, it's in what is the unspoken thing is brand safety? Yes. In the brand safety is the obstacle that I think that he's talking about. And I'm not sure that he even is aware that he's talking about that thing.

Well, okay, so thank you for bringing this up. All that money that is being spent on podcasting is going into in many cases is going and this will also start to dry up with the cheap, free money being free, cheap to free money being gone. Now. There are some podcasts who that cost $1,000 $2,000 $5,000 to make. And the only way you get that back is by assuming I'll use the password in this case, assuming that there's going to be advertising for that. And that may be for a few

shows. But it you know, I don't care what the Obama said. I believe Spotify cut them loose because they had no way to monetize them. People just truly were not interested in listening to what they had to say, or those particular productions. I've never seen well in the very beginning. Oh, it's number one. Michelle Obama's podcast but then it was like, Oh, now every app can use it because you know, it's important message no is because you needed reach for your advertisers, which was tied

in Downey or whatever. Sorry, Mitch. Hey, are you related? We don't have any advertisements. It's not us pod verse pods.

So so there's this this very typical Hollywood type vibe of and I put Cleveland and you know, the pod land and the Bartlett I put them all in that kind of that category, because what they report on all day Ong is big names, reasonably big names, big media companies creating new podcasts, all kinds of great different genres and in all kinds of things that are not cheap, because these people are getting at least the host. They're getting paid. There's lots of money that's gone into

this. And what we see is no one is profiting from it yet. So they're in this flywheel of look, I got a job now. And now I don't know anyone's situation, personally. But I just question if, if you can keep creating big, anything over $5 is big to me. You know what I mean? That's, that's why I bring it that's why I bring it up is because I feel like I think that that is the milieu that permeates through a

lot of the podcasting press. And so they they talk about these things with met, perhaps not even realizing what's really going on under the surface. The language is there. And that's the only stuff that will get any advertising is the completely brand safe, scripted, be upfront presented. Everybody know, this is grow. These are very serious people. You know, there's never going to be an F bomb or something controversial and of course, that still happened. See any show from

gimlet? Right. It's it's unavoidable, and advertisers shy away from that you're so right. And here's the here's the kicker. Let me bring it home. So clip three. He's Sam asked him a question. He talked about the bear removing the barriers in the previous, his previous statement. So Sam just says, you know, what, what are the barriers? Yeah, I think there's tremendous opportunity for programmatic advertising in podcasting. And right now it's getting it's

getting a bad rap. And it's getting that for two reasons. Number one, I think a lack of understanding of what it can do. But also, I think, a lack of execution, the programmatic got a lot better on things like Facebook, your Facebook ads seven or eight years ago, were absolutely terrible. And now I don't think a week goes by that I either don't buy or I'm tempted to buy something I see on Facebook. So yeah, sorry. Yeah, no, yeah. He says, he asked him, What are

the barriers? And he says, he starts talking about programmatic ads. That's an odd jump to make, from what are the barriers to political answer. It's how politician answers stuff. Here's the mental job, let me map it out for you. Here's the middle jump advertising means it needs increase, it means increased ad spending. This is how you get this is how you remove barriers in your you increase ad spending to bring more money into podcasting, that requires volume, because there's not

enough big shows to do it on their own. Yep, that means selling to more small shows. The only way to do that is with programmatic. And that inherently means brand safety concerns because you're buying in volume across many, many, many small shows. And that's the barrier, that that mental progression right there. That is the barrier to ad dollars coming into podcasting in the way that they talk about it. That because you you have we're at the point now where there's not enough big

shows to to sit to bring in the big money. So you have to go volume. And that inherently means brand danger. Yeah. And I think that's what led that is also behind him, again, maybe not consciously what's going on with like a cast announcing their conversational targeting and that kind of thing. This is all about identifying, trying to make programmatic better, because that's how you target. That's how you target the small 1000s of small shows at once in and try to do it in a way that

doesn't kill your brand. That's putting it next to bad stuff. I just don't see them being sincere not Not, not these guys specifically. But the if there's an industry, which I don't believe I think there's just apps, no industry, no podcast industries apps. If they're sincere about it, then why is it still I mean, the transcripts are the perfect way to get your content context and maybe catch some words or, or maybe unknown,

there's, I've been told AI is magic. So that should be able to be used, but there's no real push towards the implementation of transcripts, either. I'm not even sure that you know, that Amazon, wasn't Amazon going to do that in the background and then use that I don't think anyone's doing it.

Well, you know, the idea that we're or that gets talked about is this idea of put putting things into transcripts so that you can search for keywords to sell against, but in that may be true to a certain extent, but I think it's equally if not more about identifying keywords to avoid Yeah,

yeah. Yeah, exactly. weigh in here. I like to say that up, podcasts are shows you can listen to in any app, that this is what differentiates podcasting from legacy media, which is that legacy media had to go through centralized channels that have the authority to release it or not release it or censor it. And these large brands prefer that safety, because they have somebody they can reach and make sure is filtering the content that goes out. So that's why these brands

go to that. But podcasting is kind of the opposite of that. It's it's RSS based, it's open in nature. And so yeah, they're, they're not going to get what they're looking for, from podcasting, what they want are exclusives, which really are different from legacy media. They want conclusive content that is with one brand that they can talk to one company, and they can negotiate or say, Hey, you have to cut this content.

But that's not what podcasting is. So, you know, I know they say we have podcasts, like on Spotify, but in the traditional sense of the word they don't, or at least their exclusive content is not truly a podcast. I mean, it's no different in my opinion, than a Netflix series. If you have exclusive show on Netflix, why not just call that a podcast to here's, here's the beautiful thing, because history has

shown. And my favorite example is always AOL, that you give people a beautifully walled garden, and it's all nice and safe. And it's brand safe, and it's good. And, you know, the PG 13 stuff is labeled, but you give people a little opening and say, but by the way, you know, there's this internet over here will give you a browser, but you have to click on all these dialogues and say I'm okay because I might see porn or I

might see a bad word or it might not work properly. And within a year, everyone was just sucked right out of that portal and AOL became a dial up company. It's going to be people want the danger? We inherent we love it. We love the danger. Oh my god, I can't believe it. This. Twitter is a game of who can say the most outrageous shit about someone else, preferably, until

they get the platform. What can you do on you? And it's an it's a game between the creator and the audience at this point, oh, I can't believe you did that, oh, you're gonna get a strike. You know, it's, it's sad to watch. And what's interesting is I realized in this past week, and I believe advertising, always equal censorship, even if it's just not being able to talk about a competing brand or but you put filters in so you don't piss off your advertisers. I've done it all my life, I

understand it. Had to two people I've worked with, and I like, we're deep platformed. And for different reasons. But the bottom line is, if you have something of value, that you don't control, they, they, the masses can and probably will take it from you. Because always someone who doesn't like you, there's always someone who disagrees and has a different

way of solving things. And whether it's a YouTube channel, whether it's an advertiser, whether it's a board seat on the podcast Academy, if it's something that can be taken away, eventually, it most likely will be what they can take away. Is your RSS feed. I mean, yet technically, you can get down to the server level, but that's unlikely. And even then, you know, we'll deal with IPFS but they can't take away or or, or modify or change your feed your mp3. And now with podcasting 2.0

Your potential to survive financially, financially? I love what we're doing. Yeah. And that gives an out because it's almost, it's necessary. And that's kind of where this ends up is that it's, it's, it's necessary to have this even podcasting 2.0 has never been ad advertising hostile in the sense that that advertising has to fail in order for podcasting 2.0 or value for value to succeed. That's not No, not at all. Not at all. Not at all. It's never been the case and brands it because brand

safety is not inherently a bad thing. Like if I had, if I have some product in the future, and I want to buy some advertising for it. There's going to be content that I don't want it to be seen against and that's it. That's me. Yeah, I don't want that. But the more important question is, does brand safety lead to healthy outcomes or to Truth Truth, the outcomes for

content and society. Yeah, true? Because and I would argue that the answer to that is no, because that's not his job brand safety, his job is to protect the brand by safety for the brand. Yeah. And that's not that's inherently not, not has

doesn't have anything to do with whether the content is true. So that that's you almost you have to have these out the podcast and people know has to exist for that for this very reason that you're going to have, you're going to have brand safety and sometimes you sometimes brand safety is good, but it's good for the brand. It's not good for the subject matter in and of itself and objective sense. I completely agree. And I see what's going on and I see. D

platforming so fucking evil. It's, it's so lame, you know, and the only way to protect yourself is just have nothing of value. The only thing that is a value that I don't control is my my Twitter handle that still has some value to me. But everything else now there's nothing and see the shit I say been an additional D platform isn't what are you going to take? What are you going to do?

Yeah, it's, I think I think it's in the long run. I think there's two industries, pretending to be two pretending to be one industry. Yes, there's open podcasting, open RSS, podcasting. And then there's advertising based podcasting. And some, if you if you have a Venn diagram of both, there's a little bit of overlap in the middle, where all the big shows exist, that are non exclusive. And otherwise, they're really

not. There's really not a whole lot of overlap. And you can you can tell, which, you know, by by who you're listening to, you can see which part of the which industry they're from, are they from open RSS? Are they from advertising, right? You can just hear it in in the way that people speak. And it's not a it's not a slam on anybody. It's just just the way it is the way

the industry has, it has turned in that direction. And podcasting takes a long time for things to catch on and for things to grow in this unexpected moments like the serial podcasts, unexpected moments that give it a super boost boost. And we and we will see that but our secret weapon is, you know, Spotify can't buy all the hosting companies. Yeah, and the secret the secret weapon is also like pod verse. Yeah,

exactly. Yeah, exactly. We have all these different apps and new ideas, fresh ideas, things that may have a very small user base, but it doesn't matter. Everybody can survive and the whole ecosystem benefits no one benefits from from a spotlight from the Michelle Obama podcast, Mitch downy had no way to benefit from that. Nor did nor does he Stephen V. Nord is Stephen B. You know, or or, or Roy, no one had a way to benefit not Roy wouldn't doesn't put those non value podcasts in his

app. But you understand what I'm saying? There's no benefit there. So you just fucking the system. That was the whole problem to start with. That's why we had no apps. Well, we do it for the love of podcasting. Oh, please. Oh, shut up. Mitch. You liar. Do it for money. I know. You're doing it for money. I know what's right. The mountains of dough, you're just swimming in like Scrooge McDuck. They're diving into your, your, your cash pile? Yeah, that's what I've been doing for eight years.

I hear your brother, I'm a podcaster. I hear that but we're able to move so quickly and do things that were not possible. Or that the other big brands wouldn't even pursue like value payments? Or the LIVE TAG? Yeah. Or the live tag or pod paying look at look at how revolutionary pod ping is. It'll take a bit but eventually, polling will be so Boomer. Yeah, it should be we need to get everybody on pod being as soon as possible. It is such a game changer.

Can I Can I ask you? Can I ask you about that, Mitch, because I want to ask you about in your syncing with the index. I want to ask because, well, a couple of things. How are you doing that currently, because I'm noticing some old feeds that that are dead now that are still showing up? That'll be number one. What can I ask a question, first of all, Mitch, why is Mitch syncing with the database and not using the API or syncing with the API? It is all you're syncing with the API. Okay, but

you're syncing. So you have you use your own copy of the database for your for the app accesses, yes. Before podcasting 2.0 existed, we had our own database and parser setup. And we had about 50,000 podcasts in our database. And we couldn't scale up to do much more than that, because of all of the problems associated with polling RSS feeds. And then once you guys made the podcasts index, Dave, expose some endpoints for us, we now pull the API on a schedule,

like every 15 minutes or something. And we pull in all of the feeds that have that your system has detected and updating, and that signals to our system to run our parsers over it. So we started with 50,000. Now we have over 5

million, and that would be impossible. For us on our budget, we don't have a budget to be able to accomplish without, you know, without you guys doing the heavy lifting of detecting updates, and also listening to updates with POD bean and Pub Sub and whatever other approaches you're using. Okay, so that. So in light of that, how are you detecting which feeds that we marked dead? Because I'm not sure that that's that that's syncing correctly? It's not flawless? It's crazy, because I wrote it.

No, stop. You're good? Well, it is running on a schedule. If there were downtime, we could miss updates. There's other potential bugs, like maybe the list was too long at a moment, and we didn't paginate through the whole thing. It's something I need to revisit, right now, as people report that there's issues we manually correct it. But we do have automated we I think it

listened to the dead podcasts or dead feeds endpoint. I just fixed the bug recently where there's tricky issues like you had two feeds that were for the same podcast in podcast index. And then at a later point, you changed the RSS URL that was for the new version of that podcast back to the old ID. Was that Jensen feed? Was that what that was there? Maybe there's so many shenanigans in ours. Oh, no, it was Mike. Doc. hotbox. And was Mike Tyson. Actually, that's the one I remember.

Oh, that I didn't do that one manually. That must be the new automated redirect. Redirect changer. Yeah. Okay, well, I found, I think I have a fix for that I like do a lookup to help match it. But so it's not a perfect syncing operation. It does seem to work, like 99.9% of the time, hey, if you're hitting nothing, if you're hitting the high 90s and RSS world, you're doing pretty good. I mean, you're you

know, that's, that's fine, usually. But what can I do to help because I want do I just need because, you know, I started producing a dead feeds list. I don't know if you've seen that. It's just an object storage. And so you can just download it, it just literally lists out every dead feed in the entire index as one humongous file. You can download that and just blow through it and just mark everything dead.

Yeah, that could be useful. Okay. Is there a different state though, where it's like a dead feed, but it gets, like switched to another feed or switch to another ID?

Yes, there's a there's, there's the dead flag. And then there's a duplicate of and so if it's got a dip, that's what I'll send you the URL for that object storage file, because it's, it lists out every dead feed ID. And then if it also, if that dead feed ID was replaced, or or should be is a duplicate of a different feed, it will point you to the ID of that feed. Okay. Yeah, something like that would help. To be honest. I haven't put as much time into the thinking because it just

seems to work well enough for now. But I think what I need to do is like, map it out our whole infrastructure and all of our thinking operations and how they work. And just like put all the pieces on the table and see how we can improve it. Because it always comes up because when I use pod verse to search for podcasting, 2.0 I always see the podcasting 2.0 sandbox feed they're listed in that one's been dead for like months. So they'd always always so paying you for

if, if that was before, we added the dead feeds endpoint. Because we are deleting feeds. We're listening to an endpoint and podcasts index If that was that happened later. So there could be like a whole era of feeds that has not been addressed. But what you're saying with if you just have a dump of the whole dead feeds list that we could, you know, have a job, make it run for a day or something, and go through the whole thing.

Yeah, that might be Yeah, it's, I'll send you the URL, and maybe, you know, it may be useful for you to, you may find that you've got like, so many that can be killed and just then take some load off. You know, what's really open source, sends your pull requests now. Pull requests, and please anybody who wants to help with this, we are all open source. And as you can tell, I could use some help. We're at max capacity. But it's a lot of fun.

That's, that's another thing I wanted to ask you. This, okay. So the other thing I want to ask you, as far as, you know, an answer as much of this as you want and as little as you want, but when it comes to, you know, you pay for premium pod verse every month. And are y'all doing? Just are y'all doing okay? I mean, financially, are you? You know, are you able to pay the bills? I mean, how's that going for you? We're doing okay, in the sense that as long as I have a day

job, I can afford it. It's not unmanageable. It's actually remarkably cheap for how like, like, supporting 5 million podcasts and having iOS Android F Droid and web and all the stuff we do, but we're not making a profit yet. And hopefully, we'll get there we're not profit motivated. That's not central. Like I just have this assumption that we keep getting better and you know, just keep improving and eventually we'll turn a corner with that. But you know, I'm not the world's best

marketer either. I prefer sitting in front all your target to do genius marketer, so you're in the right place, my friend before I, lest I forget Mitch, would you please email me right now a wallet credential so that I can put you in the split for today's show? This is something we need to ask up front Dave, we need to we need to guest a guest sheet and into intake form and intake form. There you go. i There's there's trouble with that. My Umbral node does not have channels set up right now.

Do you have any do you have any wallet somewhere? I do. Oh, we do have a standard bitcoin wallet. No, no, no, no, that won't work. I can we can give you a LM pay wallet. Oh, you know what I can do shit. Can I just set it up? Give him a Akira for sovereign fees wallet. Oh yes, brand new. You can test that out too. Well, while we're while we're running with scissors this breakout some more scissors it's cool.

Go to sovereign feeds.com Mitch and then it'll ask you for an email address it'll send you a token when you click on wallet that is I think and then it'll give you a wallet and the details send those to me and and you even get stats All right cool. I'll do that during the donations segment yes sovereign the sovereign fees what and if you've seen it Dave The was pretty cool. I mean, it's got boost and stream history and booster grams separately listed.

I haven't had a chance to look at it Can you can you describe like what it's like when you I mean where does it exist in Yugoslavia and seeds. So if you go to to have you been to sovereign foods lately,

yeah. Okay. Yeah, well, I was there a couple days ago and is there you see those right before he did okay, so there should be I think when you hit it before before you even get in it asks you to give your email address we're gonna set up a wallet If not click the Sign In button on the right I think okay, so because because the way I usually get there is I go to I go to curio caster and then I'd no no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no sovereign feeds.com Oh,

listen. Oh, sovereign feeds is a whole a whole environment. It's an operating system. Yeah. So sovereign feeds was settings Turn on RSS editor. No, no, that's curio caster go to sovereign feeds.com. Man, I felt like I'm just it's this is very disappointing. Actually. While you're doing that, Mitch, I'd like to ask you a question. And I also listened to the Tom Webster pod line interview. And within that interview, there was another you know, the discovery

thing always comes up. This is another millio thing like well, once we get discovery, you know, once we have discovery better done, and it appears To me that pod verse, but also fountain FM, have invested heavily as in resources in Eclipse is that? For me, the thinking behind that has always been that is a discovery mechanism. Is that how you view it?

Absolutely. I think of that whenever people talk about discovery, people are looking for like a magic AI solution that's going to just like push their podcast in front of people, and that that's going to draw people in. And that's going to be the key to their success. But I think the real key is you need a really high quality podcast. And you need people to

spread the word for you. There's just such an oversaturation. I mean, it's good that there are so many podcasts, but like, people don't really listen to podcasts unless somebody tells them or they hear from one podcast recommends another one. So clip sharing is, I think, the most useful way for, for getting introduced to a podcast and potentially getting interested

in it. So that was actually what pod verse started as. Right, right to be a simple podcast clip sharing platform, which is now turned into a Cross Platform podcast app that does just about everything. It does, yeah. Yeah. But that is the core experience that, you know, I was, I got into podcasting, like 2009. I've was like, I really liked it. I liked it as an alternative to

mainstream television media. And the thing that that I wrestled with, though I didn't like I couldn't share that with other people that like, people could talk about, oh, Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad are some shows that everybody watches. But, you know, podcasting was like really, like specific to you as an individual in which you listened to. So I wanted an easy way to share clips, to introduce, you know, maybe I hear something funny or enlightening, and I wanted to

share it with people. So, yeah, I think that that gets under, that's just not discussed enough. When people talk about discoverability, I feel like you want to create viral content. And that's a short clip that people can share everywhere. To me. No one has really quite cracked that nut yet. And I'm not sure what it is i i love sending myself clips for noon, which is really no more than a time code. For me that's a curio

Castle does that I'm perfectly fine with that. There's, I think we're just missing opportunities, like overcast, I get a lot of overcast chairs. When it comes in the emails, it's so there's so much opportunity there to get midnight, I don't have iOS, but for for for all of the apps to get me to have a different experience than what I'm seeing. And not that I can explain it. But have you have you looked at because everyone does it a little bit differently? What do

you think is the perfect model and I agree with you. And that may be part of the the millio of the industry is well you know, once we have discovery, but we're never gonna have YouTube like discovery, it's just that's just not the nature of the beast. But there's there's sharing on social media, which is one type of sharing, which I think needs a certain type of experience if it's on Twitter or Mastodon or face bag or anywhere else. And then there's the person to person through email

or you know this, there's different ways you can share. I totally agree with the human part. What are we looking at for how that's sent? And how that stored how people can go back and find more? I mean, that by itself, and I asked you specifically because you started out that way. What is What do you see the formula? Do you think you've you've got it yet? Or is there something some magic ingredients still missing? I do think there's a magic ingredient missing. It already

exists though. It's the podcast sound bite tag. And we so the sound bite tag is part of the podcasting. 2.0 spec allows you to create clips within your RSS feed. They're just timestamp so start time and time and title. And if a podcaster includes it in their RSS feed, then every podcast app can just parse out that information and do what they want with those clips. Like in pod versus case, we look for the sound by tag. If we find it,

we generate a clip in our system. So podcasters if they want to make clips available as far reaching as possible, they can put this out On by tagging their RSS feed, and it goes to every app, you know, like the ideas they can create in a central location instead of, okay, you have to go to pod verse and create a clip here, or found create a clip there. Like if they do that in the RSS. That is a ticket to being able to generate it everywhere.

The soundbite tag is doesn't have an external file. It's, it's in the feed itself. That's correct. I mean, that could potentially change if the reason why I ask is because all of this stuff, this is my problem. So if I wanted to generate a sound byte tag, I kind of have to do that work before I publish. Otherwise, you get into republishing, feeds and you know, all kinds of caching

and bullcrap that comes along with that. So I would need a to have the capability, the capability to actually select the clip before I publish, which, you know, time codes and everything. There's really no, I have no UI for it. I'm basically telling Stephen B what the problem is. But honestly, I'm the lazy ass that says, oh, man, can it be either? Or Could I could I have Dred Scott do more for me is my question. Really?

Yes, yes. Well, that's up to him. But I give people SATs baby, I don't mess around, I'd like to take our money. Some other people have kicked around this idea on the Macedon that some some way of crowdsourcing clip generation. And if if there was an external file, then that might have separate permissions from your RSS feed. So you could just put a URL in your RSS feed that links to your your soundbite list. And maybe you could have your own moderators, that could

then add clips to that list. And that we read it like normal, it would have to be its own standalone service. Right? Well, I'd love to complicate. I'd love to experiment with the soundbite tag regardless. So once I have that capability, I'll do it. I'll figure something out. Yeah, because no one no one's producing them. There's no tools for it. As far as I know. There is. So Buzzsprout has adopted sound bites from the beginning, there's just one catch, which is that they don't

allow setting a title with the clips. Yes. And so they think of it more as a preview of an episode. So like, you include one preview, I think their UI also generates an audiogram. So the the people using the platform, they create a sound bite. And then they get an audiogram and think, Oh, I've got a clip, what they don't realize is, well, there's another level that we can go here, which is you put the title in the feed also. And now that clip is generated everywhere.

Right. I don't know if they have any plans to support something like that. But I do think that it's just kind of under the radar that this potential with Eclipse is right there. We have the spec already. Maybe we need to add the external file. But there's definitely room there. But what I like is this is all about getting more people to listen to the podcast and not have more ad inventory available. Because people are clicking Oh, let me check this out. Plays ad man

don't like it. Next one plays ad don't like it. Because that's just not the way people find podcasts as far as I'm concerned. Yeah, exactly. It's hard to get on people's radar. And also, you know, man, I'm subscribed to like 200 podcasts. I can't keep

up with it all. Yeah, it's just a firehose. Yeah. And I hope that there'll be a day where there's just such a, there's so many clips being generated in a open standard way that I could get, like, highlights from the shows, I do want to listen to, but I can't keep up with, you know, that would be really cool. Otherwise, I just fall in those same patterns that like same five podcasts I normally listen to, but there's a lot more than I'm interested in. I just can't keep up with it all.

Do you have any visibility in like any kind of telemetry or metrics or anything that tells you which features of the app get are used and not used? and in what quantities? Not really, I'm bad at prioritizing that sort of thing. The only join a club? I mean, I find it interesting. It just it just hasn't yet happened yet. We do have some tracking in terms of we count, page view counts if people opt into tracking and that we use as

part of our sorting algorithm of popularity. It's a extremely flawed system does not necessarily reflect reality, but it gives us some indication for some podcasts at least of what what is getting shared the most. But in terms of the feature use I pretty much just based on what people email us about and contact us. Does it help? How is the how's the the Translate language

translation stuff going? I know you're pushing that hard for a while is that didn't you crowdsource that, yet translations is going good, I have not given enough time to the community that's helping with that. There's this service called Web late. I think web blade.org. And somebody reached out to us a while ago, just saying that they, you know, hey, you should set up with this website. And it makes it really easy for people to you give them like your master list of text.

So like, we have one JSON file that has all of our texts, and that's our English, that's a root file. And then people can just jump in and translate that into any language, and it automatically creates PRs to are Oh, wow, oh, that's cool. It's really cool. I did not know it existed. And I need to give it more attention, because I'm not talking to these people

directly, very much. And they're doing this great work. But it's, it's a really powerful tool, especially if you have an open source project, I recommend everybody get set up with it. If so, how does that this year, just you have a master list of text strings, and you just pull from that list when you compile? Right? Well, I mean, we have cores at runtime. We have I 18. N. We have an internationalization setup, it's just a little helper function that checks what the device is

language is currently in. And if we have that language code available, like we have French, German, Norwegian, we have like six languages. Currently, yeah, it just, it just flips the definitions for depending on the language that you're in, how many strings how many strings are there? I mean, like, what how big of a translation project? Is it to? Like, let's just say it was a comic strip blogger wanted to go and translate it to polish? I mean, would that take him two

days? Or would it take him an hour and a half? Well, the beautiful thing is, you could just do partial incremental, you don't have to go through and do the whole thing, you just go line by line, you know, and translate those lines into whatever language you want. And, you know, you don't have to be the person that does the whole thing. So I think we have like 1000 strings, it's quite a lot. And actually, part of why we have so many is because we added screen reader

accessibility about six months ago. And that's actually a feature I'd like to highlight more. Because, you know, we invested a lot of time to make it screenreader accessible. I got an email last year from somebody saying that they heard about pod verse through podcasts in 2.0. And they were really excited to try it. And then they opened the app, and it just did nothing. And it turned out we were not accessible at all. It just was a dead app.

I know you well enough to know that stuff like that just gets in you your curl and you. Yeah, yeah, that drives you crazy. Yeah, yeah, I just feels like I'm not doing, you know the basics of what should be done. But so I hope that the experience is good now for screen reader accessibility. And I'd love to get more feedback. If you or anybody you know, uses a screen reader. I'd love to get feedback. We've got it on the website, and the mobile app for the five

blind guys podcast with three blind guys podcast. I'll ping him. I've been on their show. They're okay. Yeah, they're the real deal. That'd be great. So they're podcasters and podcast users. Perfect, shall we thank a few people for our value for value proposition which I've been explaining to debit card Danny who will be joining the

team debit card. Danny is a overqualified CPA who was who was helping us with our tax filings and our books and he's no agenda guy and he's really excited about what we're doing and he's getting up to speed and so I was explaining value for value because he kept saying well okay so your sales no stop no sales but but that's that's in in in IRS speak it comes into it. Just say it's easy to say sales okay. But anyway, value for value was is something that I've I've actually been writing

quite a bit yesterday, two days ago. in Teaneck, Festo. Yeah, Tina came home like that. What do you do to my emails? Now I'm gonna show prep and I've been writing, writing, writing. Right, I'm the right I'm The Linguist here be writing your

podcasts. So I've gotten pretty far and it's kind of fun to to build the story and then also make it you know, Quick so you can get in understand something or if you really want to delve deeper into it and learn more of the history because it really is more than just, you know, it's not just content monetization,

it's a programming format it's a lifestyle to a degree. And and what we're doing here I would say is kind of the lifestyle because this project is completely supported by the people who want to support it, and the value they get out of it they put into it. That's the beauty of it so you can determine exactly how much you find this you think the podcast is worth but really the whole project because it funds

everything. And you can do that by going to podcast index.org Scroll down at the bottom there's a couple of ways you can send your Fiat fun coupons or if you prefer you can send on chain Bitcoin, but we really like people boosting sending booster grams with a modern podcast app and I just checked that new podcast apps.com is one way nude podcast apps.com also works apparently I don't know who did that, but I appreciate it. So if you keep hearing nude podcast apps.com It'll work to you'll

find your favorite podcast apps there. So I do a couple of these live podcast boosts before we get yours. The ones received before the during the show. Meet us 3375 Haven't heard a live pew in a few minutes. Here you go. Thanks. That was 19 minutes ago we could do with another one. A lot of triple threes from Chad Pharaoh. Appreciate that boost Barry. Check this out. 111 111 SATs. Holy crap.

I think that gets a big bottle. Shot Carla 20 is blades on the Impala M booster grand reads as follows by the dip boost the drip a brief observation using new like it happens using new podcaster 2.0 tags feels like finding new gear for your hero in a role playing game. You obtain gem of app the episode value split plus 33 Booster lightning magic. loot the room.

loot the room. I might have to change the title of the show to leave the room behind the scheme's will be lit post no agenda on 612 22 with the podsafe Dave Jones as our guests. Oh, so you're going to feel what it is what it's like to really have it work. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I'll get the I'll get a front row seat for how this stuff is supposed to run and I am totally changing the title to loot the room. That's hilarious. 5000 SATs from crimson dear Thank you very

much. We have 5000 SATs from the NA millennial Adam unblock me on Twitter. I wonder why I blocked you on Twitter. I will I will check that they deserved it. No doubt. Well, I think five SATs is not really doesn't really unlock the Twitter achievement but okay. That's that's a minimum of 20,000. See, Brooklyn. 112 came in on the chat room and he says oh, I just snuck in. I'm late for the board meeting and I said Hey, where's your hall pass and he sent 2000 SATs with my hall pass

Thank you very much. 500 from span proof at feat feast Nope. Secret ingredient is oh I'm sorry. That's for no agenda. That mix on my thing here. Hard Hat with 22 2222 22,222 sets of massive row of ducks. Thank you very much. See Mike 2222 Running with Scissors and putting our ifex individual first aid kits to good use today. Merch idea. Take notes, a podcasting 2.0 First aid kit. It has a it has a better Alright. Alright. Podcast

index shot pay attention. It has a backup USB mic dongles adapters and an ask me about my podcast button to put on your shirt. Yes, beautiful. Sounds about right. Chad Pharaoh got us going about an hour ago with We'll do it live and 10,000 SATs on the booster gram. lavish 6666 Pew pew we got shipped. Stephen beat. Oh Steven Be with a short row of ducks. Hey, Mitch, Congrats on getting lit. Working the pod pink is awesome. Come on Martin, Oscar, Guillermo and Franco. We're waiting for you

guys to get lit. And there's our Ben, our buddy sir Spencer 33,333 SATs, boosting the dip and making lit seem easy. Love you guys. Thanks for pushing that live item goodness. When in doubt, ignore the false cache signals and keep on truckin PS for live item feed management. I highly recommend VS code for edits and FileZilla to get it up on the server go straight to the source. And that is our live boosts with the last one coming

in. Oh, sneaking in trying trying to get the there he is ladies and gentlemen, Dred Scott boosting it live looking forward

to fun fact Friday's 100th episode next week. Make 77,777 Sad shot caller 20 blades on I am Paula yeah there's no money in podcasting in billions of sets billions and billions of SATs we also got some Pay Pal donations we get $22.22 from Sir Pete pieces boost we go Hold on a second that's a combo that I yeah you weren't you were not prepared with how could I be prepared for that?

Oh, he was a left hook 2222 Also from super nerd media says notwithstanding the dulcet tones of Gregory Forsyth, Jr. One needs one needs more than AI cooking alone. Therefore, I cordially invite you to listen to the Barnhardt podcast, a mash up of current events, Catholic News and conspiracy turned up to 11 Yo Yo. Barnhart is spelled var n h a r dT for those of you searching boost Thank you super nerd media. We got some boosts

and booster grams that was all the PayPals knows oh well. And you will get the monthlies will do later protects all the single donation okay by the way the right now is the time to boost I mean booster Satoshis when this stuff starts going up again it's going to be happy times. Oh yeah, was it boost the drip drip by the dip boost the drip brand Oh settlers gave us 10,006 Great episode guys. I love I really love what you're doing at the podcast index and the things

Oscar has been doing with fountain. I can't wait to see what the future brings and that was boosted through fountain Thank you Brenda 19 122 sets from Kira and our buddy mere mortals podcast. It says I think Theodore Dusty eskie can give Mr. Solzhenitsyn a run for his money in the near in the near the unspoiled names department, the Russians, the Russians strike again through the Gulag Archipelago is an amazing book by the way. Horrifying and emotionally draining but still fantastic.

That was tiring that was tiring. Yeah, carbonation. Man. Shout out to Myhrvold mere mortals who is been a huge like promoter of podcasts and 2.0 and also the sleek podcast which is what's brand Knossos guys, those guys, okay, do tons of videos. screengrabs is fantastic. I love retweeting among Twitter. Mitch, I thought you were about to say shout out to a feed or Dostoyevsky. Musa, by the way, one, Karen's partner in crime is he's up there in I think, Minneapolis. So that's sort of

close to you. Mitch, close in quotes. Cool. Satoshi stream sent us 5552 SATs through fountain and he says, Why you say a lot when fountain works so nicely. Smiley face is true. But CLS fun. Everybody wants this command line. Yes. And Roy scheinfeld. The Wizard of Tel Aviv, he says, he says 54321 54,321 says through breeze and he says, quote, I also don't want crypto I want Bitcoin. ADAM You rock. That must be an atom quote. I guess. I guess.

I guess Thank you. Thank you, Roy. Yeah, thanks, buddy. the only the only industry player that supports me big industry player. Yep. Roy is a treasure man. He really is. I can't wait to visit him yet. Do you have that scheduled or he's gonna just talk in general is Israel is on our radar. We definitely want to go there. I mean, you and Tina. Yeah, we we really we still love to do Japan but Japan and one anybody. Stay away. Stay away. You can lay bare you ready? Sit down, you guys.

I'm sitting down. I'm ready. What's up? Okay, all right. 100,000 SATs Oh, podcast. Shot call off 20 blades on the hem ball. Boost. A says the intergalactic boombox podcast isn't just standing there. It's boosting. And I'm a firm believer in value for value, especially with the immense enjoyment I get from Dave's paper. crinkling ASMR You're welcome. Yes, thank you, Carl. Yeah, me and Carl the exchanged some emails this week.

He's Such a good guy. Todd from Northern Virginia. All right says he sent us 11,100 And Levinson sat through breeze and he says cheers. Can I get a divorce IQ boost? Oh yes of course boost boost boost gasp Casper eland through fountain 3690 SATs and he says thanks for the work. Thank you guys. Oh, here we go. How you doing Chris here. Chris Fisher says 3333 sets to found and he

says we need a podcast or push for podcasting 2.0 apps. I initially had a lot of modern audience try out the new app, but I suspect many of them have switched back to their old app UI boost, in part because we're the only podcast in the Linux world preaching the good 2.0 word. We need more advocacy of the full 2.0 feature set. And why all that matters for the competitive future of podcasting from the podcasters themselves where they lead the audience will follow. Well, that's you've

been preaching that forever, madam. Whoosh. Yes, that's the only way it works. And when you do, then it works. I mean, look at this. Look at this podcast. It's working. Now the real trial is carrying the keeper. Because you know, people like let me just send you pay, pal? Nope. Let me just say your cash Nope. We won't move not accepted. But we really want to support you got to go through the steps. It's been painful. These are just plain old people who don't

really even use a podcast app typically. And they hear us talking about it. In the end. They're trying so hard. It's beautiful to watch. But, man, it's hard. It's really it's hard to get people so I do we just keep pushing and people get people do it. They get through eventually they do. And they're really proud when they do and I hope that they then also check out other you know, it was really beautiful. Last night there was was it on Fox, I actually fall asleep almost

every single time during Tucker Carlson. I wasn't want to watch because he takes our material. I want to see what he liked. And it's true that he's produces fine. And so and I fall asleep. Patina says Oh, did you see Did you hear anything about the woman was talking about Bitcoin to know. So there was a I forget her name Natalie something. And she has a podcast that she was talking because normally Brunel is that yes, Natalie Brunel.

Exactly. And so the answer to talk about Bitcoin being separate from crypto, and Tina said, yeah, you would have really liked that. And sort of what was named Tina didn't know so I looked it up as a podcast. So I use the few things I have and out and Natalie coin stories, pop it up on curio cache, or boom value value for value enabled, right there. And I say, oh, that's and of course I send a boost to grandma. I don't know if what she's hooked into she gets those messages at

all. That's really the when the podcasters. That's the missing part. So it's not just tell people how to do it what happens and then Tina and I have seen this on Korean Zookeeper. We're reading booster grams and people like I want to be read on the

booster gram, we got to send a booster gram. So that's the piece until the podcaster either is looking at it in well now of course we have fountain we have sovereign feeds with you can read that we have heli pad, obviously we have Satoshi streams, until the podcaster can see that and implemented into the programming into the podcast itself. You don't get that level of adoption. That's what drives it. That's what makes it work. And that's just my experience. Don't be known for long time.

Mentioned the amount mentioned the short message. That's it and take it from you because you're literally writing the book. I'm literally writing the book. I've been living the life for more than 14 years. No other income sporadic but really no other income than no agenda from value for value. Would you say that that's where it always falls down? Is it when it falls down? It always falls down right there where the where the podcaster does not read the feedback back into the show. It's

then it doesn't work. Yeah, it's not just falling down. It just it never lifts off. It's just a critical piece that gets if it's not there. It just doesn't function. I mean, and if you don't do it, then it just dries up. It stops. Yeah, and it really is key that you have that segment in there. Well, exemplified by Muppet 1856 You sent us 177,600 Did you just fall under your iron thermometer? Come on, man, I'm too tight for this market. That was awesome.

That was through cast ematic. And what's funny to me about these donations that go that big, is you look on like, I know for a fact that Casta Matic won't let you won't let you load up more than 50,000 SATs and a go. So he had to load up multiple rounds in order to get high enough. Wow. And that one boost, and then you hope that the podcast you're sending to as a channel This at least big enough to answer

that too. Yeah. So who? Who sent this again? I'm sorry, I completely didn't hear who sent it. Yeah, this is my this is my that was 12 jingles ago. Yes. muppet. 1856 He's on the on. Yeah. Cool, man. Thank you. He says Sir, Sir Geoffrey Zellen supporting you with a freedom baller. Boost. Freedom baller boost. Very, very cool, man. Thank you, Jeffrey. Thank you. Bucha thank you so much. Lyceum sent us 50,000 SATs through fountain. He says thanks for shout out. I will mention your

show in the upcoming episode 126 of ego net cast. Do I don't know that show? Neither do I. Okay, thank you. Do you have a list of Satoshi special numbers eg 1776 Liberty boost commemorating the founding fathers to two to two ducks. ducks in a row boost for 20 High five for the hint boost. As Martin Linda Skog and yeah, that's that's on there's a repo for that. Yeah. Is the striper boost in there. He shouldn't be missing there's a repo for that. Yeah,

so I don't know where it is called. I wonder if it's in the boost bait repo booster gram. Repo GitHub. I don't know where to look for it our recent boost Yeah, at Sur Doug Sn is 4400 SATs and he says V four v keep it up. Thank you sir. Good. Thank you very much, sir. Here's here it is. I have it here. Do you find it? Yeah, I'm going to put this in the in the show notes. 200 you want to hear these? Wait, wait, let me see if the service so 7777 is not in

there. That's a striper boost. Because that's religious members it's religious numbers right the perfect numbers perfect number Yeah. Oh my goodness. There's there's a whole bunch here. But the Jenny booths like the Jenny boost is my favorite 8675309 Macintosh and it's 500 SATs and he says sweet episode this week grit. Great interview with Oscar. Thanks for all you to do go podcasting. Podcasting. Thank you

see floydian slips love that name. Gave us 3456 sets and he says I would like to welcome you to listen to my podcast, cooking with AI Wait, no. Comics your blogger here. Different app or something? No, this he's doing it backwards cooking with AI instead of a cookie. Wait. Oh, I see. Okay, this is a joke. I like it. It's called podcasting for value one idiots attempt to start a value for value podcast. Thank you. We just solved the discovery problem with the boost segment. Two Yes, absolutely.

This is a huge win. Of course we we've had three so far that you can listen to Sir Shanna the Allegheny Valley aka Sean McCune through cast ematic since 1000 says sisters censorship resistant boosts boost boost boost. Boost boost. Let's see is that coming straight blogger came in. Twice. So I'll flip that one to the end. Martin from pot friend Hey, Martin fast. Mr. Martin 4444 SAS and he says I love seeing all the

advancements people are doing the 2.0 space. Let's give all the people in the trenches a big applause right thanks, Martin. How's it going, man, we want to know how you doing? How's How's the family? How's the house? Yeah. How's the how's the gaming he wasn't doing gaming stuff? Yeah, he's written an old school a big gamer. He shows up on the in the dev meetings quite often. Close get to catch her within there is a we got a cape since 1033 SATs and he says fountain boost.

Thank you very much. Boost. Let's see. Karen is back again with mer motors podcast nice and as 1223 sets And he says Adam with regards to your V four v manifesto and people wanting to know more the first season of the value for value podcast covered most of the philosophy behind what you've created. I've also just now started a second season where I'll highlight clips from other value for value podcasts This is a great idea because you already had this exists I think so I think he

just launched it's called the value for value podcast. He had he had a first season that he just had a few episodes I think and he gave up on it and I think he's coming back with a different format where he's playing clips from other value via with other visa vie shows is it could titled value for podcasting value for value is that what is titled I think it's just called Value space for fo our space value value for our Why have I not been interviewed on this podcast? I don't know. Just

got back in action baby. He says okay, subscribed. And I showcase how different people are implementing the model send a boost to that show or the mere mortals if you want a feature. I just think this is great. That great coolness format Yeah, it's cross is cross podcast promotion with that. What always gets me though, I must be subscribed to this because I had this problem with curio caster. It's like, like, where's the subscribe button? Oh, here it is. Boom. Okay,

boom. That big blue button. Yeah. Okay. Subscribe. Cool. Thanks. Here comes through blogger. There is a limiter there is 1033 sets he's up to because of inflation. Batty, Dave and AC. Are you ready for the Eurovision? 2022 final tomorrow. Oh man, am I ever Russia is banned. So as much less fun. Well, thank you for your service to podcasting in your audience as invited to listen to your pod to our podcast about artificial intelligence. Oh, really? Read read is if you heard of this

book at the time. Gregory Well, it's read is read by Gregory William Forsythe Foreman from Kent. Oh, that's the guy who has some pubs? Yeah, and the guy on nogen social.com. at GW FF Yeah. GDSN just enter AI dot cooking in your web browser or in podcasting. 1.0 or in podcasting. 2.0 app. Yo, yo, yo. Thank you very much. CSB. Appreciate the monthly donors. Okay, dynamite. Have you heard of this app? Pod verse. I have heard of pod verse. It's it's pretty good. It is pretty good. All right.

Oh, right. Nice. Thank you, Mitch, in coming in. I mean, coming in tight. close on the heels. There's another guy named Mitch down. He was $10 a month. And who's this guy? This is so nice. That's my personal donation. And thank you, ma'am. Yeah, so let's really appreciate Mitch, thank you. I'm not trying to double dip here with the two shoutouts. No, condense it into a $60 donation? No, no, no, don't do that. Thank you very much. Alice gates $25 to the gas consultant. Thank you, sir.

highlighted today because of the great work with a live item and pod paying on pot for and future live stream of the board meeting at least from this part with the no agenda tube? I hope. Yes. These types. These these. Monica when we call Alex, the podcast consultant. We're not kidding. We mean it literally is the podcast continues. Podcasting 2.0 consultant, David Norman. It's good to see David back. He's popping in and out now. Yeah, I still haven't

seen his new studio back end. I think drivers using it and if they're trouble if they're debugging and stuff, but I'm excited about it. $25 Thank you, Dave hybrid catcher.com Lauren ballgames. $24.20 Thank you, Lauren. Thanks, Lauren. always appreciated. Paul Saltzman 22 Yep. No ducks. Thank you, Paul. Derek J Vickery. Great name $21 Thank you. Darren Carrick. Damon Castle Jack $15 Jeremy

Kavanaugh. $10 Christopher hora, Barack $10 Sir Soren molar $5 Terry killer $5 Jeffrey, Retford, $5 and CRISPR cow and $5. That's our group. Thank you all so much, particularly these monthlies is highly appreciated, really is. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You can also consider using the command line boost, put it on, put it on a cron job that works for us to pay pal may be easier

for you. Thank you all for supporting the project for supporting the show and making us feel like it all makes sense and it does And so with that, I'm going to immediately touch the third rail. Oh, how you doing with fixing that capture Dave? It is done. It is a works. Oh man, you just gotta give me just gotta give me the bottom line. I'm what that was, like that was broken for days. That's not a Dave Jones type thing when it's broken for days what happened?

Okay, Mitch, you're going to, I don't know, if you're going to commiserate with me, or if you're just going to think I'm an idiot, but maybe a little both the. So I just know nothing about Webpack in and like in React and I literally don't know what I'm doing at all. I know node, I'm comfortable with Node Webpack is always been a complete mystery to me, it's like, you run a command. And then a bunch of magic happens and this stuff just works. And so then what Steven crater had

done. And, and I'm so thankful for, for his work on that he had gotten in and just cleaned up a lot of stuff on the site and put in, he had built the AD AD feed page. So where people could sell service, add their feed to the index, and he had a CAPTCHA on it, you know, sort of a protection. So the CAPTCHA needs a site key, which is like a big Gu ID and it's unique for each site that you put the CAPTCHA on, so that you can train the AI with all your stupid CAPTCHA class.

Yeah, and so the, the site key, you don't really want to hard code that into the, you know, into the page, you really want that to be a separate value, because if somebody, if you're going to run it, somebody else is going to download the code and run it, they want a different psyche, you don't want to happen, because the end and also then where every time you do a code update, or do a git pull it overwrites with yours your stuff anyway, you want that value to be to live somewhere

else. And it will be great if it lived in the dot E and V file with all the with all the rest of the environment variables. That's where I like it. Right in the end, to get right in the end, is right up in there. So we put the, put it in there. And then I'm expecting it to just to be able to just reference it with with the process dot E and V dot, the variable name or the constant name. And it just No, it just doesn't, it doesn't

work. Well, then you and Steven B. Both told me on the on the mastodon that we should be it should be using like Dotty and v dot v and v and NPM package. And that's supposed to like expose these variables into your process dot E and V when they're normally not there. This is all like, this is all like a different language to me. I mean, it's like you're just speaking in Russian because I don't understand even what the difference is between what's going on with node and Webpack.

And everything. This is some of the trickiest parts of React anything that involves web pack, because that's like compiling, and pulling in variables and stuff like that. So you do have to be careful not to expose the private variables. But that's the beautiful thing about podcasts index dot social is that there's people there that are happy to help and totally guide through this process. Summer says versus what is deemed Jennifer has to say about all web pack talk.

She doesn't have she doesn't she only has math. It's so when you talk math. Thanks. Dry. Talk math to me. Oh, man. That was that was heavy. We banned that one. We might have banned. Sorry. I think we did. Yeah, that's, yeah, we're getting the platform. So So I finally figured out if it finally sort of conceptually made sense to me, and I realized that Webpack is not running with node. It's, it's compiling to it's, it's compiling static

HTML, and Java is compiling into static HTML and JavaScript. So when you run Webpack, you're building the you're building a static site, which node then serves? Yes, that sounds right. Yeah. Welcome. Welcome before Welcome to What everybody knew 12 years ago. And so once I realized that then I'm like, Ah, da, no wonder you can't Put, you can't reference process study and V variables because there there is no process dot E and V like it's

it's not there, because it's a static website. And it can't reference it for the static code. So anyway, so then I went back and finally figured out, okay, there's this other package called Dotty and v dash Webpack. And then blah, blah, blah, and, and now we're all good. And that only that process was a was a a svelte four days of work, so that's great. That's what it felt like to us, too. I loved all the emails coming into to it was an info word podcast. index.org Hey,

man. It's just broken man fixer shit. I love those I love. I didn't know anybody even used it. And like evidently, like 100,000 People use this page. Well, that's the beauty of it. I mean, a lot of people are using that. There's a lot. There's a lot going on. I was quite pleased to see all that. Yeah. And I was like, you know, I refused to just go in there and hard code it just to fix it. I'm like, No, I'm doing this the right very good.

Hardcore, hardcore, Dave Jones. Love that. Okay. All right. And personally, I want to personally say apologies to Mitch, for dropping you inadvertently off of new podcast apps.com Oh, noes, which is is now fixed. But you the app was not shown because the filters were set wrong. And that's, that's fixed now. Okay. Sorry. Oh, no problem. And now accessible now accessible through new podcast. apps.com. If you prefer, Mitch, thank you so

much, man, not just for being here on on a Friday. But for everything you do the leap of faith you took and podcasting 2.0 is incredibly commendable and highly appreciated. I really love what you're doing. Oh, no problem. I love that you guys came around and started this, this is the most exciting thing I've ever worked on. And your the app is going far beyond anything I imagined because of all these new features that are being brought into podcasting.

2.0. So thank you guys and everybody in the community. Yeah. Also, I use sovereign feeds. I have a Lightning Network Address now. Oh, good. About two minutes. Yes. You're gonna send that to me? Yes, I put it in the IRC chat echo that scrolled off a long time ago. All right. Just put on the email or something. That'd be awkward if you could even do it on social anywhere, because you can you can post that publicly. Okay. I want to save in, you know, give gift, pod versus tribe

because pod pod verse. One knock that we hear from time to time about podcasting. 2.0 apps is because of because we're building this is all sausage being made. It's all running with scissors. You know, it's things are buggy. I mean, this is all new, new code and things. Things don't have the spit and polish that you know, and podcast apps that have been around for 10 plus years do and but you know, pod verse is

stable. It's a very it's a stable app that rarely messes up and it's got every feature you can think and I use it on the on the graphene OS and I have my my own node hooked up to it. Not into my own wallet apps or not. No, but I have a wallet hooked up to it. It works perfectly. Yeah. Loving it. Thanks, guys. Yes, thank you, everybody in the chat room. Thank you. Of course, Steven B for curieux Castro and sovereign feeds and your assistance, everybody. Thank you so much,

Dave. Thank you my friend. Thank you, my brother. Well, thank you so much. That's it everybody. That is your board meeting. We will return next week. And we might be on the summer schedule soon. So make sure you join us for the board meeting of podcasting 2.0. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.com for more information. We have the boots