Episode 84: All Aboard to On-Board!

podcasting 2.0 for May 6 2020, to Episode 84 All aboard to onboard that's exactly what we'll be talking about today. Onboarding podcasting 2.0 Hello everybody welcome to the official board meeting of podcasting 2.0 every single week, the pod sage and myself. We break it all down, tried to give you a report on what's happening with podcasting 2.0 with the podcast standards, the new namespace and of course everything happening at podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry

here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. My partner in crime the man so wise they name him sage ladies and gentlemen, my friend on the other end Mr. Dave Jones. Alexander's Sultan Knutson. Yes, that's the guy with the hardest to spill name. In the history of, of people. Yes. Yes. Why do I know this name? What do I know this guy from? Yeah, he's the the Soviet dissident. Yeah, okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah, I've been reading his speech that he delivered at Harvard, like the

Harvard commencement speech. And it's quite good. Just happened to be sitting on my desk. And so I remember to remember that I've tried to type his name 17 times this week and never gotten it right a single time. And was there anything relevant to podcasting? 2.0 was Alexander and his his writings? Absolutely not. Oh, good. Oh, good. At least we know, we're starting off on a good foot. Hey, man, onboarding is it this week? Okay, crazy, crazy onboarding.

For me personally, at least. The first, though, there's the first one is a show from the Netherlands called the ensign show. It loosely translated to the Jenson show. And this is a it's a podcast. He also has a video version. But he puts it was podcast first. Then he still kind of audio first. And he's I've known him for 25 years from the Netherlands. And he was very had a couple of very successful television shows. He he ran radio stations did morning shows very kind of by himself in his

own little stratosphere. And also new people don't know a lot about him. You know, it's kind of a typical for DJ, that he was a DJ, he wasn't like management or whatever. No, no, he was a DJ. But he also did run radio, the radio stations, and now that's all all DJs eventually do that and then hate it. Like, Hey, man, I can run this thing better than the MD or the PD. And then you run it like, and everyone hates you. And like, Screw it. I don't want

to do this. But he also did a number of talk shows, and I've been on his talk show many times, always funny. But I mean, the guy is hilarious. He did a whole that he did a very controversial series, which NL produces all this stuff himself, his shows everything, he always produces himself. In 2015, he came to the States and went all across America talking about Trump and trying to understand where it was coming from. So he came to see me in Austin as well. Anyway, when he after

that, he started yet another talk show. And it was a more conservative tent, conservative guests. You know, they don't really have Republicans and Democrats in the Netherlands, you have multiple parties, but for sure, it's a socialist country. So it's very, it's left leaning and the media is, is just this, there's no room for anything else. And so, and it was very, it was very much discussed, you know, the ratings

weren't super huge. They kind of put it in a weird time slot on a weird station, you know, between you 68 And you 70 There you are, there's there's your signal. And so he eventually said like UHF Yeah. As an analogy, but his time slot was no good. And so he said, Screw this screw the mainstream media and he started his own

podcast and I talked to him for quite a lot. This was during Friday around the pandemic starting and I explained value for value and so he started with value for value and he never looked back. And but and a lot of it was he does focus a lot on video and you know, so he, he saw what was happening YouTube was starting to shadow ban him so he pulled everything off you to put up his own stuff on his own server was still doing the

podcast as a companion. And then Spotify kicked him off Spotify and unbeknownst to me, he was using anchor as his host to retro so they deleted his feed deleted all the files done and I noticed this because I know he does like three Shows a week and three or four and especially delete so he got deleted, deleted actually deeply. Yeah, clearly A clearly a Russian disinformation Yes,

obviously, yes. Oh, carrying water for Putin. Oh, there was when he was doing that podcast It was when he just started was very controversial. There was even a news article that the army had been investigating for some reason that military division of the government had been investigating his podcast, God Almighty. So he's one of us, Dave, he's, he's a pirate, you know, he gets it. He's a great program, producer. And so he got completely deleted. And I noticed because I was like, Hey,

where's the show? I don't see the show. And then I go to his website. And I see there's been two episodes since I haven't gotten an update. And I figure pretty quickly Oh, all right. So I see what's happening. And then someone people started pinging me on actually interesting on podcast, index dot social, which seems to be more active than Twitter for me. And so I call

him up and say, bro, what's going on explains the story. So what we need to immediately get you go and see what the problem is, I can't go with a hosting company, because they cut off the hosting, you know, it's like, and what am I going to do, and I need, you know, we have a server. And he has, he has that he has all set up for his video files and everything. So he has that cost under control. And he's has a partnership with a

company he trust. And there are a lot of cool people and certainly in the Netherlands that you can trust with your bandwidth and your server. See no agenda also running from basically avoid zero running it from the northern part of Holland. And I say, well, then we'll we're going to set you up right now we're going to do you 2.0 all the way and I say you're going to use sovereign feeds. Yeah, for you onboard somebody to write to

sovereign feeds you bet. And so he does have one, one guy who does all of the kind of the mechanics of the production, so I work with him. And it was really interesting to see someone go from a completely managed solution, which an anchor is pretty good for, you know, the interface the UX is understandable to go to that to sovereign feed. And, you know, I struggle a little bit with okay, what is all this stuff, this is new to me. He didn't he didn't fill out the goods. So that

would that was an issue upon ingesting. He did. And pod Ping was it was very, he sent me something wasn't working was actually a bug, which we tracked down pretty quick thanks to Steven. And he sent me a screen recording of what he was doing with POD ping. And it was really interesting, you know, the disconnect. This is so obvious, you know, he's so he would hit save, hit pod ping, then hit Create RSS. And then upload it. So you're completely the wrong sequence of backwards? Yeah, so

all of the it's just fascinating to watch. Now, of course, I explained it to him walk them through it. And but the conversely the oh, wow factor, when he said, Oh, shit, it's already in the index. That's it. Yeah. Grab one of these apps. He said, Oh, my God, this is really cool. I don't have to, like, talk to all these fucking apps and get them to add my my shows and Nope.

Yeah, you don't have to wait. You don't have to wait and cross your fingers or register, you know, register, like, you know, like you do with Apple. And it says, So, are we on Apple? So no, absolutely not. But you can resubmit to Apple or people can add it manually. Okay. And this is great. This is this is this is more what I want is this is this is like pirating. This is cool. Does, and he's bringing in a quite a large audience several million.

Oh, wow. He's big. He's very, very big. And, and, you know, once this is kind of stable, so they've had to recreate it put in four episodes in their feed once a stable, and you know, they have their update process, because, you know, they actually want to talk to Steven about putting in a web hook or something to upload to their server. And so I'll connect all that when the time is due. This is this is what I've been hoping

would happen. Yeah, that's a neat idea, you know, or FTP, even for all our SFTP, whatever, whatever you use. So they sound like they kind of know, maybe not know what they're doing as far as far as RSS goes, but they have the technical know how to get it done. Yes, exactly. And the drive the drive, the motivation is there.

Yeah. So it but it was really an issue, for me a very enjoyable process to go through and to see someone who really was in dire straits and was saying, Hey, I'm not quite sure what to do here. And you know, I got the video stuff under control, but I don't know how to get into these podcast apps. And so next is, as I said, once we stabilize then it's going to be value for value. And now here's what I liked a lot because that those two things is is what they knew about me. The index You know,

it's where you go where you can't be canceled. And then the censorship resistant payment mechanism that is built into it. Right? What was interesting, he says, Hey, how do I do this chapter thing? You see what I'm saying? You onboard someone with something that's really obvious to them, even though they have no idea how it works. And then they are exposed to all these other features. It looks like that, that's, that's what you would call a call in the business cross selling.

My point is, look how many people we've on boarded with value for value who, you know, if you use any of our apps, almost any of them have value for value. They also have chapters, many have transcripts, you have a lot of these these namespace features are available in them. And my point is, as as production people, they just want to get up and running. Okay, so what you know over that value thing that's we're going to work on next. Okay, what is this chapters? How do I do that?

Okay, stop the show. Stop the show. Yes. Stop show that the our feed is broken. Our feed is broken. Yes. Do you know about this? No. What did I updated it what is broken about it? You I think you're gonna have to go back to sovereign feeds. Yes. And unlike save it again or whatever, it publish it again. Or however that works. Because it's, I'm looking at is broken. It says error on line 45 at column eight start tagging valid

element name. And then Oh, I see it to even be said he introduced a bug and he just did a code revert. Oh, okay. Well, good. So but I have to Okay, hold on a second. Revert. He did a code. Okay. There's something I need to teach people. You don't let me I'm gonna don't do it right before the show. Don't do it before the show during the show. This is all not so I have to reload the page. Right. So this is not this is not good. Don't do that. Okay, hold on a second. Hello, everybody. You just now

Saturday. Welcome back to the show. Stephen bases, man, my butt crack is sweaty. We just spent I don't know 20 minutes on, on trying to we were running with scissors and E up so once I got poked out. Oh, yeah. I fell down in the winter straight through the fee. And I love that I was just pontificating about the onboarding process. This is so fantastic. This kicks ass. Let's bring in our guests into the boardroom who's been waiting very patiently for the for the past. What are we now well, for

quite a while. fits perfectly with this onboarding a theme for today that please welcome the founder, creator of head honcho. All round. Nice guy for fountain.fm. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Oscar Mary. Who is muted? Who has muted him. There you go. Hello, Oscar. Hey, Dave, how's it going? Oh, good. Just Just to add to the malaise now now you have a crappy connection. Yeah. Oh, it just cleared up. cleared up. Come closer to the mic, my friend. Come on in. Can you hear

me? Yeah, she's got it. You might want to reconnect Oscar. I hate to say it, but you help me. Yeah, you've got some kind of Robocop thing going on. There we go. Hey, Dave, this is great. Welcome. Welcome to the future. Hey, guys. There you go. Hey, Oscar. How you doing? Yeah, much better. Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. How are you guys doing? Yeah, we're good. Sorry about this malaise that we put you through?

Oh, no, that's all good. You know what's funny, I was just thinking, while all of that was happening about the first week that we actually launched fountain. And I remember because something very similar happened, which at the time just was so awful for me, which was we submitted the app to Apple. And I think you very kindly talked about founding on no agenda for the first time. Yeah. And just before you did that, we submitted a new version to Apple, which had a bug in it. I

remember, it didn't allow anyone to send a boost. And it was just so gutting the day that you were talking about us for the first time. We'd broken the entire app, so yeah, it's very painful. Get through Yes. Well, don't worry. There will be many more times I can I can promote the app for sure. Oscar man, it's you know, the Before we start talking about anything I want to say it was really nice hooking up with you at the, at the Bitcoin Conference which you came in for.

Yeah, it was great to meet you to shame. Dave, you couldn't be there. But it's always so good to meet people in person, and especially being over here in the UK, it doesn't happen too often. So yeah, hopefully we can do it again. So did you do? What what did you learn? Did you connect with any people was any business to be done? I mean, how was that conference for you? Yeah, it

was great. I mean, the main thing was just to meet people, for the first time, I feel like over the past year, every single person that we've interacted with has been over a call. So it was just good to meet people in person, meet podcasters a lot of the Bitcoin podcasters, we managed to have good conversations with, and also just meet our users, you know, meet people that were using the app every day. And it's always, you know, we get a lot of bug reports. And that's a big part

of talking to users. But it's nice when you're just talking to someone randomly at a conference. And they say, oh, yeah, I use fountain use every day, like good jobs. Is that nice? Yeah, that feels really good. It feels really good.

Yeah. So yeah, it was great conference and learn a lot, especially around the custodial versus non custodial Bitcoin problem, which, you know, I think we're all managing to fly under the radar a little bit right now, but we're all gonna have to deal with eventually looks like, it looks like, by it looks like there's a lot of stuff coming down the pipeline, that's gonna really help and provide the tools that we need. So I'm really optimistic.

Definitely. And it's nice to see that. So we have LNC, formerly known as C lightning, they're coming up with a solution. ln Jesse Atlanta, I'm sorry. The breeze will be is working with them. Voltage has, has released a lot of details about you know, their cloud based noncustodial service. I mean, the promise that I've that I've gotten is, Oh, it'll be just like Gmail without the snooping, but the Gmail ease have, boom, you fired up, there's your wallet, here's your keys, lose them, you're

screwed. And that's it. It's, you know, and then of course, you'll, you'll pay for that in fees from the lightning service provider, which makes total sense. So I think that's coming a lot sooner than than later. Yeah, exactly. Really looking forward to that because ultimately, people do want that noncustodial experience. But right now, the onboarding for that kind of thing is a bit too difficult for most people. What what surprised so I want to play a clip. You may have seen

it. It's from the one of the most recent Joe Rogan episodes and he has Khalil Rountree was an MMA fighter and he's on the

show and he went to the Bitcoin 2022 conference. And his experience was to me personally so beautiful, what what he learned about Bitcoin and about podcasting 2.0 That it, I think it really showed that there's, there's a huge audience and this is why I guess I was saying earlier, that when someone comes in, and they come in for, you know, an app that that is that retrieves data from the index, they come in maybe four or possibly four value for value streaming payments, and they see

all these other things that are possible. So it to me it's a great onboarding avenue for everything. And if someone comes in for chapters and sees value for value, that's awesome too. And I said the word awesome. Listen to this little bit from the extra about two and a half minutes from the Joe Rogan show.

I went to the Bitcoin Conference in Miami this year, and just got to see and hear some really really cool things and the people who are like pioneering this and and really believe in in, in Bitcoin, specifically not just like the whole world of cryptocurrency, but Bitcoin itself. I haven't been excited about something like this in a really long time. And I'm not a

finance guy. I'm not a guy who grew up knowing about, you know, financial systems and networks and stock markets or anything and now I'm finally at a point where I'm starting to be able to, like see a future for myself and also a way to like, people like me don't really have like generational wealth right? And I don't understand I don't see how, you know, I can really

create that through fighting alone. So lately I've just been trying to understand more of like, the advancement of technology and kind of where we're headed from like a from like a currency and like money standpoint, there's like a small fraction where I'm like, Okay, I see how this works, but then trying to uncover and like, dive more into the whole system of

how this can be implemented into just like daily society. I'm seeing more and more A possibility, and it's making me more and more secure on Hey, man, I can actually finally have something that I own. That's mine. It's like, whatever I earn is going to be mine and you can't touch it. No one can touch it every from. And there's a guy Adam Curry who Thank you, buddy,

man. Yeah, you know, like the podcast index like his now they've created this thing where you if you want to have your own platform, and not worry about being taken down or censored or whatever, and you can also get paid in Satoshis, which are fractions of a Bitcoin from the supporters so you can stream your set, you don't have to buy bitcoin, you can create a platform where he Hey, I'm speaking, if I wanted to start wondering, I'm like, you know, I don't have the money to actually

buy bitcoin. But I do have a lot of stuff that I want to talk about, subscribe to my podcast. And then my fans and my followers are streaming into me Satoshis just like they would on Instagram like likes, right? You get I'm saying so likes and replays. And all that stuff is also a currency that people don't really look at it that way. But like, yeah, a lot of these, a lot of these, like companies that want to do business with me, it's like, oh, how many followers do you have?

What's your Twitter engagement? What's your Instagram engagement? All this video only got 70,000 plays, that's a form of currency. Because that's like looked at as, you know, my value and my worth on whether or not you're gonna work with me or not. I thought this was a phenomenal analogy at the end there with Satoshis and likes, and follows and stuff like that. I was blown away by how perceptive that is.

Yeah, that that was a big thing for me when he talked about the likes and all that all that stuff against the ecosystem as currency because I've never really thought about it like that before. And no, I mean, it is, it's a currency that doesn't have like, it has a social value, but it doesn't have well, you can have a monetary value. What he was saying is that for him in the advertising world, in the sponsorship world, that's currency, okay, you have this

many followers, this many likes on these videos. So you know, you're worth this much to us to promote our product, the the inverse, or the reverse of that, or the other side of that is podcasting. 2.0, where those likes are actually money. So you don't have to you don't have to add the sponsorship part in. Let's see, I think that like, if you go back to something that Cridland said a long time ago, and at the time, at the time, and I'm not sure how he meant it, necessarily, but I think I

understand. I think I understand the concept a little bit better now. Or I'm able to sort of adapt it to this concept. After hearing that, that he he was calling. He kept saying that you it's easier to talk to people if you talk about an internet token rather than a real Bitcoin or a Satoshi you're

right, right, right. Yes, I do remember that. Yeah. And I can see that this sort of fits that framework, it's, I mean, still, ultimately, eventually, you'll have to know what's going on underneath, you know, but, but there's there is the sense that you have a, like, a, there's a, there's a representation of some sort of value there. And, and it's always been there. And people understand that there's value in whatever this number represents on on in a digital way on the

internet. And now Now we've just attached actual, you go underneath it, detach the social, you know, achiness and swath, attach real real real money, value, your real money, and now you've kind of changed the game. It's, that was just astonishing to me. And you know, I think the app coming closest to understanding this, even though the launch of the feature was somewhat controversial is indeed fountain. So Oscar, your thoughts? Do you mean in terms of the podcast, the onboarding or the

club? Yeah, I'm I'm actually very, very interested in that part is? Well, so one is just the value of such Do you feel that people are seeing disconnecting? When they're when they're boosting booster grabbing, commenting? Are they disconnecting from the value and seeing it more as point tokens, likes, etc? Does the podcaster feel the same way? Does that make any sense? Yeah, no, that makes sense. I actually think that the fact that it's money and that there's value attached to it is really

important. And I think listeners know that I think podcasters know that. And that's what makes the experience so much more powerful. If you compare receiving a comment on something like YouTube or a tweet, you know, having that those exact same words, but tied to real value and money, even if it's not a large amount. I think it's a very different thing. And I think that's why listeners enjoy sending boosts and sending that value. And that's why I podcasters like receiving them,

even if it's not that much at the moment. So I think that the money, part of it is really important. One thing I do think, though, is whether in the future, it's always labeled as Bitcoin or whether we just give users the ability to toggle into whatever currency they choose. Obviously, we'll still use Bitcoin as the payment system but I think some users are still potentially put off by the fact that it's Bitcoin obviously we're not no I'm

off give me like a translator. I think curio curio Castro has that. Although I prefer like a wallet where you can see both, you know, it's like, I like seeing Satoshis big number and then underneath underneath it little I like to see $1 value. Yeah, exactly. I think that's the way to go. I think that makes total sense. A lot of people can't do the conversion don't know the conversion aren't interested in

the conversion, don't do conversions. And And if anything, I was sending a 5000 stat boost to I think it was new media show. And, and in curio caster it says this is $1.81 I thought curry or Stingy bitch, man. Shit, yeah, that's both ways. Sometimes you will send a massive boost, and you won't realize how much you're actually paying in in dollars or your local currency. But then, other times, you'll send 1000s of SATs and then you'll forget that

actually, okay, that's not that much. So it will be interesting to have the option of both and compare which one needs to Yeah, more income for the podcaster. How was how was I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say, Yeah, I've done I've done that in both directions as well. And I've did that with intergalactic boombox to call a bear the other day, he's like, he read, he read it out on the show. I forget what I sent him like a, I don't know, the 2000s that has some what he wants

12. Of course, we know it was 2112. And then he so he reads out my message on the show. And he says that's about 80 cents. And I was like, Oh, don't you feel like I feel that already. So I immediately boosted him, you know, 12,000 says, okay, all right, we're gonna make up for this. But there's also been shows where I've lowered my streaming SATs to 10 SATs a minute, I'm like, that'll show you. You saw. How's the onboarding going? Oscar, because fountain is unique in

that you are onboarding podcasters. You help them I have not run through the process myself. Maybe you can explain how it goes and how it works and how it is actually working out? Yeah, happy to. So essentially, you can claim your podcast within fountain, we use the same technique as you guys do on podcast, that wallet where we just send you we send an email to the email in the RSS feed. Just now. Are you sending that? Or are you sending that or is the index sending that

we're sending that, okay. And then we partner with you guys to once you claim your show, if you don't have a value block already, we will just update the value block in podcast index and basically just set you up with a lightning wallet and enable you to receive sets straight away. I think there's there's a few pieces to this one, obviously, is the technical part and just hiding everything from the podcaster. So that it just looks

like it's just a one click process, basically. And then, you know, all of the data aggregation that we do on the back end in terms of analytics for income, so seeing, you know, obviously reading the messages, because the value is as much in the message as it is in the actual money. And podcasters see that straight away when we talk about do you had as a part as a fountain on onboarded podcast? Or do I have a screen that shows me all the statistics? I'd love to see a screenshot of it.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So you have essentially, you're used to work, we used to work a different way. So we used to have two Wallet. So you'd have your listener wallet and your podcast, the wallet, but we've actually just recently unified them. So you have to associate your podcast with a fountain user account. And then what you will see is a list of all of the

incoming messages on that value. And then if it's a fountain user that sent that boosts you'll be able to click through to their profile and see okay, you know, who are they following what clips that they've created, that kind of thing. You'll also be able to see which episodes have brought in the most. And also who's been and supporting you the most the time and you can continue. Can you send money back to them to their wallet? Yeah.

Well, so in this latest update, yeah, cool. Every fountain user now has a lightning address, which means that you can pay any fountain user just with their lightning address. I actually tried that it works really well did not. Did you have to set up a separate service for that? Are you using a third party for the translation? Yes. So we're using LM pay still and massive shout out to Tim. I mean, he's just been so invaluable throughout this whole

process. But we're using LNP. But we do have to set up a separate service on top of that to manage the lightning address and request now that works with DNS TXT records, I believe. Yeah, exactly. So you can actually, you can do it just with your, you know, with your server without going into DNS. But yeah, it's actually not too complicated. I think in the future, every app will have a lightning address. The problem then becomes, if I have a lightning address for every app,

how do I manage them all? And you know, maybe you want to log in to one app? Well, ultimately, I think the goal is every every human resource is born, and they're assigned to social security number and here's your lightning node. Hopefully not. Okay. So, that's, that's interesting. One thing that stood out to me with the things y'all are doing over there is that you, like you admit, you contacted me and said, you know, we want to proliferate, we want to create a podcast or wallet, and then send

that information back to the index. And very appreciative of that, because you could have easily built this service in house in a silo, and it would have worked, you know, within fountain, but you took the extra step to, you know, send that information back out to the world to the index. And so that now, now, if somebody has a podcast or wallet on, on fountain, then all the rest of the 2.0 apps can see it as well. So, you know, it's, it's Wait, say that again, Dave's explain that again, to me.

Well, I mean, you know, if they're building if, if Oscar was building an in house, he's building an in house system for, for wallet creation and that kind of thing. It could have been where it only worked internally. He'll still lightning, but it would only work internally, because he's

just keeping pointers to wallets against the podcast URLs. Okay, instead, you know, he when he when a wallet gets created, it now gets that information, that wallet address in splits and everything gets back to the Index. Oh, yes. Yeah, that's, of course, that's what you want. Yes. Yeah. But I mean, a lot of people don't. Yeah, but I would have gone over there from Oscars neck. Yeah. I appreciate the nature thinking that, you know that that way? Is it as far as a community goes?

Yeah, no. 100%. And that's ultimately, that's what podcasters want, as well, you know, the every, every podcast, as I'm sure you guys know, has been approached 1000 times by companies trying to set up, you know, some kind of service that only works within the app. And, you know, podcast is a board of that, and the beauty of podcasting 2.0. And what we're

doing is it works across every app. So no matter which app or hosting provider offers the service, there'll be able to say to the podcast that this will work for all of your users no matter which app that they personally prefer. So I think that's the beauty of it. And, you know, that's why we're able to onboard new podcasters to value for value is because of that. So yeah, it's not I don't think it would work any other way. Now, let's talk about onboarding of users listeners, specifically

to the 2.0 part. What is the conversion of people just using the app? How are you tackling that in the current? How the fuck do I do it environment? What is your experience there? Yeah, so it's actually a very high proportion of our users that are actively using value for value and ascending SATs is about 45%. So almost 50% of our users SET sending SATs every week and yes, we obviously we have a big you know, Bitcoin audience in terms of the shows that are that people listened to

on fountain but that is starting to branch out. And that's why we wanted to build the podcast the wallet just so that we can make it easy for podcasters to try it out. I would say. I mean right now the guide that we have on our website is to use blue wallet, we found that it's the most intuitive. It allows you to buy bitcoin with Apple Pay directly in the app. And then you can just send it back into fountain. So that's our kind of go to. Obviously, the Cash App announcement was massive as

well. So I think it's it's still a struggle, especially for people that are put off by Bitcoin. So you could send directly from Cash App to, to an LM pay lightning wallet. Yeah, exactly. So straight from Cash App. We don't have cash app lightning in the UK. So of course, there's there's that problem. Yeah, yeah. Why is that by the way? What what is regulation? Because regulation, money, money, transmitter regulations, all that stuff?

Sure. So I've been hearing for a long time that the UK regulations around Bitcoin and crypto more broadly, are a lot more or a lot more difficult than they are in the US. Do you do specifics on that? I mean, what what is it specifically that makes it difficult? Yeah, I think what I've heard is that the time that you have to put into the application process, and there's a lot of just time and uncertainty that goes into it, the stalkers didn't even convert to the euro. They stayed in the

pound, they're very protective. They know the danger of Bitcoin coming to their little island. Yeah, I mean, look, I don't think we're going to be a regulated money transmitter. That doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for us as a podcast that to KYC our users just so they can support their favorite shows. Like, that

doesn't make sense. And I think I actually, I actually spoke to someone who worked in the UK regulator, and I explained the what we were doing, and I explained, the, the, the lack of logic when it comes to the KYC and the user to use a podcast app, and they totally get it. I think the regulations just haven't caught up with these new application. Ya know, and that's the issue that I'm seeing that may be a problem. So we had the Facebook pull back announcement. Do want

to talk about this just briefly. We're Facebook after a lot of hullabaloo and a lot of people integrated and a lot of NDAs were signed. They went, Yeah, no, yeah, a month into it. This is not for us. And they start doing very interesting things. My wife, Tina just had someone here. It's a business woman. And she relies heavily on Facebook. And she also has a podcast that goes with your business. And they've just been uploading, they didn't even we weren't even really aware of how the whole

podcast thing worked. But she showed me the message and I'm stupid, I should have asked her send me screenshots. I could read it verbatim. But Facebook will not even allow you to post a link to your podcast now. Not even just a link to it, it got kicked off. And I think that may be something that James Cridland saw only that message was community standards. I'm not

quite sure how he got that one. It is my belief that if you've been following this Oscar in the United States, we our current administration has created a disinformation governance board within Department of Homeland Security. So like the home office. And this there was a site we discussed this on the last show, there was a big push from former President Obama, who spoke at the Stanford cyber Institute, there was again, a Brookings Institution article about how podcasting cannot be

moderated. It is my belief that Facebook saw the writing on the wall went, look, it's going to be really hard to monetize anyway. We don't want to deal with all the shit that's coming down on podcasts. So we're going to bow out you see that that was not my thinking. I was thinking that they they have already squashed all of the concerns. I mean,

well, let me let me phrase this differently. Facebook is built, they have built everything they have moated themselves with their content moderation mode, by employing you know 1000s of people around the world to do the content moderation as in an ahi fashion is so they can just always claim Oh, and we're you know, we're just we're doing we got plenty of content moderation we're doing is so that they didn't have to care about podcasting and what what it might mean to them.

Well, your analysis has two flaws in it. I think. Only one getting better. One you actually think that Facebook is is doing anything that will Would that would jeopardize their current relationship with government regulations? very precarious. They want a lot of regulation so that they can be the big boss. They're motivated by money and by control. And there's no way

you can hire enough. Ah, I like to term human intelligence to moderate podcasts you have to listen to every single podcast is there is no AI and no comics or Blogger, you don't have to refute this. There is no AI, it can barely do images. Can we? You just sent me a link about this this morning that it's hard for AI to even understand the context of a mean image to there's no way they could do it. And they just say, Look, this is

specific. I'm saying this. This is coming to podcasting, specifically, because the Facebook the Facebook knows how to operate. Oh, okay. You don't want us you don't want the President Trump done. He's gone. Now why did they do that? In that regard? Okay, on that on that line of thinking, they may know something that we don't they? Well, yes. They they like they know their food. Inflation is coming. Yes. Yeah. Yeah,

they Well, regulation. I know that this. President Obama and the Brookings Institution both called out the Steve Bannon war, war room podcast, as disinformation that wound up killing people. You see what's going on? I just want to hear that lady sing. She seems quite well. Yeah. So well, this fits with actually play a good time for a clip.

Yes. Let's play a clip. Play. De Lorenzo, real motivations of large companies, because this fits very well with with your analysis of what of what large companies really want. I had this Harvard Law School professor as the moderator. And he asked one of the CEOs of Procter and Gamble or one of these big corporations. You know, Mr. Smith, what would you do? If Mr. Mr. Pickens here called you up and said Your company is in play? Yeah, that is we're starting a proxy

battle. We're buying up shares. And Mr. Smith said, Well, I would call a meeting of my board of directors. And we would we would decide what parts of our enterprise we had to shut down what parts were profitable, what parts weren't so profitable, we will evaluate our human resources policy and he went on and on about all the things he would do to to improve the

efficiency and competitiveness of his company. So that he then he says, we would do this so we could go to our shareholders and say, You don't need Mr. Pickens, we will improve the value of this company, and you'll make money that way. Mr. And Mrs. stockholder. Now what what question Does that beg? Who? Why hasn't already done it? Yeah. Why haven't you already been doing that? Well, because human beings like the easy life rather than harder. Most human beings. And that's hard work. We're

running up a company. So if you can make money anyway without working your butt off, why not? Very good point. Yeah. T Boone Pickens, you know the big takeover guys like Well, yeah, well you're gonna you're only going to work when you have to and so like this may be the Facebook strategy is we're this is gonna be a lot of work. Yeah, we really don't want to fool with it and we're already making you know $20 billion a quarter in profits so let's just let's just not do it.

I think that's correct. It's it's too much hassle they don't want to deal with with the conversation. Oh, you're hosting evil podcast. And then there's one other silent weapon that is being used, which is ESG which is environmental social goals. A governance I'm sorry. And the environmental is obvious no stories that don't know nothing positive about fossil fuels. That's that's for Bolton nothing negative about wind solar. Please no nuclear talk that's also for boat and although it's

changing a little bit no proof of work. Nope. No proof of work talk exactly. The social goals Well, here we are. I mean, podcasts are just evil that mean there's there's there's right wing conspiracy theorists there's a misogynist, there's racist there's all kinds of people on those damn podcast. So Oscar, Have you received any type of requests for takedown or anybody was pissed off and and came we've gotten one or two I think very few. But have you received anything like that? No,

not one. There you go. And you go we have a couple of questions for Oscar from the booster grams, which is no new new for us. Yes. First of all, sir Spencer was very happy to report the Kansas City block party with Lori and Abel Corbijn himself was a huge success. And they had a podcasting 2.0 banner which they got on to the local TV news. Yeah. Yeah, it was also

all over no agenda social. Here's a question from Spencer, Oscar, I heard you and Nick met some of my KC buddies at the BTC Miami shindig also shout out to Sir OMA who won a free boost hat but donated it to me. I'll be wearing that hat all over the place as soon as it arrives. Yes, you're you're an app with merch? Amazing. Yeah, we we've tried hard with the merch. I think it's it's important. We've got some new merch coming. And we're doing more competitions around it. But yeah, thanks for the

shout out. And yeah, hopefully get to meet him again in person soon. Question from Carolyn. Can to host of a podcast, for example, myself and Fletcher, who together we host hogs story? Can we claim hogs story on fountain? I guess what she's saying is, if two hosts own the show, how do you claim that equally amongst two people? One is always going to be controlled the splits your thoughts? Yeah, great question. So this is actually possible. But right

now, we'll just have to do it for you manually. So it's not a one to one relationship, necessarily. So you could have two fountain accounts that both have the ability to update the split. And then when you look at those splits, whether it's for the show, or the episode, you would just see the two accounts that have, you know, claimed the show and enter in the splits. But you could also just add any fountain user to the show splits

or episodes. But and I think this is, you know, going back to the onboarding, I think this is one thing that's going to be massive for onboarding because podcasters are unique in that they are just talking to different people every single week. And if you have a host that is onboard with value for value that is onboard with podcasting 2.0. And that is onboard with Bitcoin and lightning, they can just onboard the guests. Right, right for you. And so that's one of the

reasons we did it. We're encouraging all of the podcasters that use our podcast, the wallet, to onboard all of their guests to fountain and to value for value in the hope that they go out and spread the message, because it's still so early. I mean, if you look at the numbers, the number of downloads that big podcasts get, you know, we're so we're so far off getting there. So there's a lot of work to do in terms of onboarding, education. Really looking forward to your

manifest, though. Yeah, yes, I know, it's, I'm finally back, the travel is finally slowed down, I've started the training of the dog. All these things that have been had been lingering. But yeah, I already I've already written some of it. But I'm, I'm actually happy with some of this delay, because I'm seeing this, the Joe Rogan show has reach, you know, this kind of stuff gets around. And I'm just seeing the onboarding is so obvious to me, I really don't

care how we get people into 2.0 as long as they're in it. And once you have something that you using the namespace for it, you know, all the rest can come naturally. And eventually, I presume it will, that all hosting companies will have the majority of of frequently used tags. Do you see a lot of uptake of the podcast you've on boarded in other tags, like transcript or chapters or guests or any of this? And and have you come back that actually was going to have you thought of combining the the

role? You know, so if you add a guest, you could do that in one fell swoop with a guest and a wallet? Or is that still a separate process? Yeah, it's a great question. And I think one thing that has limited, the adoption has been the hosting platforms, I think they need to do a lot more in terms of adopting some of the features and pushing them and making them a bit easier for podcasters. The number one thing that we've heard is that it's just a lot of work.

For example, lazy as podcasters. Yeah, like ham radio guys, so much. We're too expensive, for example, like that, creating the chapters, I think we could do. There's a lot of different inputs that you could provide to those chapters. Yeah, I think there's really creative ways that you could kind of help the podcast that at least have an outline of the chapters. So there's a lot that we'd like to

do there. I think it kind of pushes us further from the app side onto the host side, which I'm not sure how far in that direction we want to go. But yeah, I'd really like to see the hosting platforms do more and just make it easier for podcasters. Because yeah, right now it is quite difficult, especially with the chapters. Yeah. And that's why you see third party services cropping up that's why you have sovereign feeds. That's why you have the

WordPress the PowerPress Plugin. Yeah, all of these things. Yeah. I think what's, what's so great at about podcasting 2.0, and specifically, the index, and I hope we can see more of this in the future is allowing different third parties to just integrate with the index and provide that service, kind of, you know, stepping over the hosting platform that's moving a bit too slowly.

We're ready. I mean, hyper capture is one, although it's not necessarily connected to the to the index, per se, but is in the ecosystem. That's how all my chapters get the chapters for the show get done? Yeah, I think you're gonna see, I think you're gonna see some of this happen. Over the next, I'd say, six to 12 months, I think, just based on the number of conversations that I have had

conversations with. One, there's four for add conversation with four different people this week, from different hosting company, platform apps, that that are all looking at 2.0 and tags, and names to be a namespace as the just get this prevailing sense that from things, things like concrete things I know that are happening, and the people the seriousness with which the people I talk to are talking, and I really think that you're gonna see a lot more people come on some of that lag with hosting

companies and apps is going to go away in the next in everything it has to is we're accelerating so fast. There's, there's demand is starting to build. Yeah, I think I think we just got out. I mean, it's, it's no mystery, there's the normal thing, we you get out ahead, when you're building something, you get out ahead. And then it takes time for people to catch up. It's just a natural curve. And that's fine. And, and I want people to keep their, their chin

up about adoption and that kind of thing. Because it is happening. It's just, it really is it's just a little bit a little bit slow. Podcasting, brother that podcasting is slow, we're a slow growing ecosystem. It's just what it is. And I keep reminding myself, because you go back and you looked at Oh, it's we've gone up like three, four or 5% with whatever metric you're looking at. And but it takes time. Just takes time. And this is a true build it they will come. What do we have now? Six

and a half 1000 value for value podcast? Yeah, that's active users that's active actively using a namespace feature on every podcast, that's a big deal. You know, and they've, so let me ask you this Oscar on on the guest wallets, thing. So these are lightning addresses. So I can put in a fountain user lightning address from any to perform any split anywhere, right, it doesn't have to be within the fountain app. So you can but right now, we don't have the ability within

the app to share that. So that's something we're working on. But yeah, technically, you can input that from any service that is managing splits, whether it's self hosted or another service, and I think where we'd love to get to, is the ability to do that cross app as well. You know, just rather you're managing your split in the fountain podcaster wallet, on podcast that wallet.com On your own RSS feed yourself hosting on sovereign feeds, wherever you're doing that you could add users

from other apps to the split in a way that was just simple. I think that would be incredible.

Because that makes me think immediately that what you need we need there's I don't want to use the term discovery because it's not really what this is a you need a way to find the person mean like almost like a directory of of users that you can choose from you because I can see as like okay well well once you're managing well once you're managing the wallet infrastructure like they are whether you're managing it and as custodial or not once you have that directory I've tried

out some of this this this address stuff it works really well and from breeze you can you can pay someone with the fountain dot F m address. I think that's the that's the common that's the commonality. I just don't know if if you can make that well can you make that a central? I don't know if you want that centralized though.

Yeah, I don't want to I don't think right because you have you have the because immediately what I thought of was on podcast or wallet where A lot of splits are done that I could like go through all of the current value for value feed blocks. On a, like on a, on a timer, let's just say every once a day or cron job across.

Yes, I could, I could put in a crunch crunch a cron job out of a Dave Jones That looks through all the value blocks in their splits, pulls the addresses and names out and then just does a like, builds a little simple directory so that you have a drop down box in the podcast football is split editor. But I don't know if that's necessary. I mean, like, what do you what do you think Oscar?

I'm not sure that's necessary. I think what we need is a way to link lightning addresses because I think that is the format that's being adopted, not just in podcasting, but I agree all over lightning, I think we just need a way to link that to key send, because you can't key send a lightning address. However, if you could, I mean, a lightning address is just the lookup. Basically, if you could include the keys and information in the lookup response, then whatever service you're using, you could

let the users type in a lightning address. And that would pull back the key send information that you could then insert into the value block? I think that would be the way to do it. Is that case, when you say the lightning address resolves to keys to the Node Info does can add also carry the extra info, I don't know much about lightning addresses how they work, but

just a very sort of high level view of it. But down down at the nitty gritty Can you have it return the other routing information to like if it had a custom key or custom value or routing hint? Can all that stuff come back to you? Is it just a node address? No, yeah, it's from how I understand it is pretty flexible, it would just need the standard to be, you know, updated. So I think it's definitely possible.

There's one there's one other thing ln URL, which is which is really how the how the addresses they started out with ln URL, mainly? That now also does key send. So are you familiar with lb lb? Why? Get out? Get lb.com to if you go to get lb.com? You'll see it's the Bitcoin lightning app for your browser, which is I guess it's an extension. And while I'm sure it's it's custodial, but you'll even see right up there, it has

value for value. They just added that because now you can use your lb address for key send. Okay. And how? And is this is just Ellen URL under the under the Yes. Okay, so they're they're doing the URL and URL. But it works with key send, I've been reliably informed by ROI that is reliable. That's pretty reliable. Yeah. Yes. Oh, okay. So there's, there's, there's developments here.

There's developments. So I and I agree with you, Oscar, I think that the the address, I even looked into it, like how can I do this for curry.com. And is a little more than I was willing to delve into at the time, but I can totally see how it works. You know, once you you write either the server, you're the mail server, or you can do it with DNS, which may be preferred. You can set that up and it'll just work. And it works with I think every lightning app have tried

understands this concept. And now with the addition of keys, and I think we may be able to use this moving forward. Yeah, I think it makes sense as a as an approach because it's just, you know, people understand it. It's just like an email address. But for money. Simple. Yep. Yeah, it's simple like cash app. All these things have similar similar addressing schemes. But even even I'll be I think I'll

be could be used for podcasters I'm not advocating for this. I'm just saying this is the type of development we're seeing that you can fire up a wallet, your own wallet. Yes, it's it's likely custodial what I see. But you can fire it up right in your browser. And you could connect that to a value block. Yeah, I could see this. You think? Let me did you hear this? Or read this article? About this Patreon survey? No, this isn't a title of the article. See where it is from TechCrunch maybe

think this from TechCrunch so you know it's 100% legit. A major page RIANZ survey shows that most creators don't want crypto payments. Yeah. Okay. So I don't want crypto either I only want a Bitcoin. Yeah. This is this is the way this is the this is how they fight it. It is it is how they fight. So because the headline survey doesn't give you a full picture at all of what the survey actually what did the survey actually show? So I mean this is this is disinformation somebody.

Somebody called Nina jank Janka wits in the get Aratus on about the pitch to Patreon. This is let me just read from the article here says its creator consensus out of 250,000 creators active on Patreon over 13,000 people responded to the survey. That's pretty good, right? Yeah, 13,000 payments, a decent decent sample size says videos the most popular primary medium on Patreon representing 38% of respondents. So you can say like this is me, you know right out the gate video mostly.

So this is YouTube creators and Twitch streamers probably. They're gonna they're gonna have a little bit a little bit different take. So but but the podcast, so of all the ones surveyed, podcasting was 14% of the respondents. Yeah, not there you go. Not a big, not a big representation of podcasting, but still whatever reason, and the respondents said that over 40% 40% of their creative income came from Patreon. And that's

big that is big. I mean, that means the of the one surveyed 38% Being video probably be a Twitch streamers and YouTubers. That group is dependent on Patreon for almost half of their income. That's that stood out to me but but get getting back into the to the headline for a second. It says here. So here's how it breaks down. If you dig into the census act these this report actually. So in the podcasting category, you have

four different responses. When asked respondent interest in crypto payments, you have four different possibilities they could have said it's they think it's crucial. They think it would be nice to have they don't care. Or please don't write those, those your four options. In the podcast section, it was 8% said they thought it was crucial. 17% said they thought it was nice to have 34% Didn't care and 42% said please don't. So you know the way I read that.

You could say more than half are interested. Yeah. So like 20 and 25% actually are not just interested they want it Yeah, they say 8% 17% 25% of podcasters who have a Patreon account. 25% of them think that crypto payments nebulous is that is is either crucial or nice to have 34% Don't care. So that's they don't really they are yet don't care yet. They don't care. Yes. The kicker here, though, in this whole thing was how you ask the question, of course, that's always the game that you play

with survey. And here's, here's how the question actually, if you dig into it was actually was given? I don't have the exact wording of the question. But they they talk about web three. Yeah, that's, that's their quiz. That's the way that they talked about this. This is some creators, including many who took the survey, are opposed to Patreon building web three functionality due to concerns about potential fraudulent behavior, environmental sustainability, there you go and

accessibility to technology, and applications. The fact that they even had to do this survey tells me and it's just nothing against Patreon. They see the writing on the wall that lots of companies see this. The financial system is not sound. People are looking for alternatives. They call it crypto payments. But yeah, but what they actually said in the survey when people were looked doing the survey was web three. Yeah, there you go. Those are completely different

things. Yeah. And so even even beyond, you know, given that you still had 25% of podcasters in this survey, Booth thought that crypto payments were crucial or nice to have. That's to me that was very encouraging. Absolutely. Yep. Now, we're on a good path here, Oscar Mary, I'm so happy that you are leading the charge. You're you're really delving deep, and you're delivering a lot of value with what you're doing here. How am I appreciate that?

How much runway? Do you have? I mean, you don't have to divulge your company secrets to me, but I know that you have some financing. Can you keep going on for years? Are you indefinite? Do you, you know, do you hope to be making some significant revenue within a certain time? Yeah, so we've got, we've got a pretty good runway, we do have some funding, and I think we'll be we'll be around. I mean, it's growing, this is working, you know, this is not something that

is precarious. I think it's only growing every month. And I think the the job that we need to do, obviously, there's the tech that we need to build, and you know, the design of the app, and we're slowly getting there on all of that, but it's just the education job for podcasters. Really, because at the end of the day, that's gonna, that's who is going to grow this, that's who's gonna grow the users on fountain and all of the

other podcasting 2.0 apps. So I think we're gonna get there. And I think the features that we have coming down the road are going to be really exciting as well. So like one of the things that we want to do, and this is a bit of a controversial one is, obviously the clipping in Fountain is a big part of the app. And it's a big part of what we believe in personally, because we just believe that there's incredible insight and

wisdom that's locked away in podcast. By so often this happens to me, every week, I hear about a new podcast, or an episode. That sounds fascinating, but I just don't have any time to listen to it. And if I could have somebody that I follow, who I respect, go and listen to that, and surface and incredible insight for it. Like for me, that's so valuable. So the clipping is really important to us. And we want to evolve it. And we're thinking how can we link the clipping to

value for value? Yes, yes, yes. podcast is it agree with us, like podcasters want a way to incentivize their listeners to create clips, because it's free promotion for them? Especially when you have some kind of social connection there. Because it's not just anyone random telling you about the episode. It's someone that you follow and respect. So I mean, I would love

to have the ability for fountain users to boost a clip. And we just need to figure out how we would do that with the value block like do we set a default like 50% goes to the user that created the clip and and the other 50% goes out to the value block? Or do we give the podcast a way to signal in the value block that they are happy for, you know, some kind of curation to happen and what split they would like for curators, I think

that is going to be really powerful. And that's what the podcasters we've spoken to really want and are excited about. So I'd love to get your guys's thoughts on that. Yeah, I've got, you know, we have this notion of a fee in there, that at the attribute, you can have it you can designate a split as a fee. And I wonder if you can also if you

can just designate a split for for that type of thing. So like this, like if somebody boosts this, for some sort of ancillary reason, like clipping or something else, like some third party thing, like then, then I want that person to get this much, then because that way, you're saying I value, here's how much I value, like third party promotion or something like that I'm willing to give this third party this percentage

of my boost in order to like reward them. You're kind of putting it back on this as much as my first thought just my rough and dirty first thought is you're sort of putting it back on the on the podcast or to say a How much do you if somebody if somebody promotes your show, how much do you want to give give up to them? Because some people may it may be different some people may actually value that a lot and say you know you can keep 100% of that list

as a as a podcaster. Who does this already? Here's here's here's how I would probably like to do that. And I understand where you're coming from Oscar where they'd be great if anybody can create a clip and then and then get a get a split for it. And I'm not quite sure. I was just thinking, how would you make that work? Currently, for some shows, I mean, I have multiple 5% recipients, no agenda, which we don't take any, no agenda doesn't take any of the money itself. It goes to

people who are in the splits. And the clip custodian who delivers, you know, anywhere from 10 to 20 clips per show, which are perfectly guys an expert, you know, I was giving him 10% I just recently upped that to 20. Now, and so, for me, it's more like, instead of letting the audience loose on it, I prefer to say, Okay, this person's good. You're, you know, we want to do this very soon. Once Once we can spin up wallets

quicker. We have fresh album art for no agenda, I want to right away be able to put the out, you know, the the artists should be able to get a split from that episode. So these are all things that feels natural to me for the podcast, or to control it versus a third party. But that's just me. Well, that that's, that sort of fits with with the concept. Yeah, cuz you you could just put in a general split those like, maybe it's not even, you know, maybe it's not even Oh, there's

there's an idea. So what if you have a promotion split? Yeah, that but somehow it's an alias or something that it? So that split? It says, Okay, where did this come from? Oh, it came from here. That's this wallet. I mean, I'm now I'm making up stuff that I can't develop. But you know, when it's a pre designated thing, something like that. That's a good that, yeah, this is an interesting problem, because I just I just don't want people making shit clips just to get

paid. You know, that's, that's the problem. Well, it's go ahead last year, I think it wouldn't be. So I definitely don't see it as linked to the payments that are already going out through the episode. I see as separate to that. So it wouldn't be like, if you created a clip, you wouldn't get paid automatically. From the people that are already streaming to the episode or

boosting the episode, it would be separate to that. And so in order to get paid for creating a clip, someone else would have to listen to that clip, value that clip and actively choose to boost that clip. So I think that there wouldn't be a spam problem. In fact, it would be the opposite, you would incentivize very high quality clips, because people would be able to earn from creating them. So I think it would have to be like, Okay, this is very interesting. Oscar, let me just play this

back to you. So you're saying is, so what makes it clip? It is its own entity unto itself, and you reverse the process. And you and although I still think the podcaster should be in charge of what that person gets, but then they they are the main recipient? Possibly. So let's say 50%, I think would be too much. But you know, could be 20%. And the rest would go to the podcast or so could you have? Could you, you almost make

a feed of clips. Really, when you think about it. Yeah. Yeah, you almost want to just create an RSS feed that somehow was associated with with the main feed just for internal purposes. So we know what the hell it is. But, you know, even though that will display as clips everywhere, it has the same mechanism is the podcast is that what you're saying? Only it's reversed. Are you saying that the person who clips is in charge of the splits? Or is it no split?

I think I think it has to be separate from the episodes. That's the first thing and I agree with you that the podcast that has to be in control of where the money goes. I think the difficulty is, you know, if it's on the RSS feed, it gets back to this problem of we can't do anything without the hosts limits the ideas that we have and experiments that we can run. So I think like an easy way to do it would be right now in the value block. We have value recipients, which all of the

apps know how to pass and they know how to pay. We could just create a different tag that goes in now like a like a curator tag, and they get the same thing. Yep. And so that won't affect the existing streaming payments that won't affect the existing booths because the app will actually have to make a conscious decision to recognize the new tag. And so let's say it's a curator tag, then if if an app sees the curator tag, they can see the percentage that the podcast that has given that

blessing to. And so if anyone curates anything from that episode or show, we the apps can allow that user to get paid. Yeah, I like it. So you, you could have something called let's just say a new tag within the value block called podcast

colon value share, or something. And then it would be like a type attribute of, you know, some something if we wanted to get that granular with it and have different because you want to, when you're when you're modifying the spec, you want to future proof it enough to say, Okay, well, would this is the one thing we came up with, where would this one idea where people could do this thing. But there's potentially other ways that somebody could also do something similar. And we might want to

tweak that behavior a little bit. So you want to make it flexible enough, where if you had a value share tag or something like that with a type attribute, and then just a split, like just just say, split equals 20? For, you know, 20%, it would essentially operate like the theta like the fee

attribute and interesting, yeah. Where you say, okay, whatever the amount is, here's the, here's the, the straight up percentage, that the boost that the clip Creator God, and then all the rest of it goes in feeds into as an input into the value into standard value blog. Does that sound something like what you're thinking? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Something like that. And yeah, it's challenging. I think the naming so important, is challenging to

get it right. But something like that would just, I think there's so much creativity that can be unlocked from that, and the ability to see, you know, what we offer right now in the podcast, that wallet, which is you can see which episodes were

boosted the most. And as we had some podcasters on there over the past, like, four or five months now, it's actually really interesting that they can see oh, this episode, is by far the standout in terms of how much value that I received from my listeners, what, you know, how did I frame the message on that episode? Who is the guest? What did we talk about? That's really interesting, you can do the same thing with clips, if you

don't really drill down on that. So you can see what time a boost was sent within within the episode. Not yet. But that's where we'd like to get to is just to give more more granularity and more interesting, more interesting inside, I really, I really like your idea of linking the Eclipse to the value for value. And I think that is probably one of the main reasons why Eclipse hasn't really taken off. Of course, Eclipse are used everywhere. So I'm trying to couch that in you

know what that means. But you add that element to it. Oh, my goodness, I think that will really propel the whole class. Now it makes sense to do something besides just voting. You know, I'd like that. And also, one other thing that I always think about with

podcasting is the back catalogue. Like that gives an incentive for listeners that love a show to actually go back to the back catalogue, and try and find like, really cool clips that people that are new to that show won't have ever they won't, they won't have had time to go back and listen to the back

catalogue. But, you know, here's a clip from two years ago on this show that, you know, everyone that comes to this show, as a new listener should listen to, because it provides a lot of framing for what we talk about, you know, the in jokes,

stuff like that. So I think it can help unlock the back catalogue as well, which is personally just is a really interesting concept around podcasting is that the back catalogue, just gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and there's never any time to go back to it. Yeah, I don't remember we've got this show ad for episode 84. I have no idea what I said on episode 82. I do because I have the transcript the searchable. Yes. Oh, he flex.

I use transcripts so often for going back and finding something in a podcast. And this is another thing like if you could link it to the transcript, and you'd need to be a hosting provider to do this. But if and then it links into chapters. And if you can bring all of this together so that the user that or the wants to go back they'd be able to the transcript chapters, boosts clips, you know, everything. Here's the thing about clips. I have a couple of thoughts about

clips. I think there are and I understand what you're saying, Adam, you're you said that clips have really never taken off even though a lot of people have done Yes, sure. And in a I think the sense there is that there are a lot of clips have been tried and done many, many times in many ways. But there's never been sort of like this massive take off where clips where this one group has found a way to just make clips. Just take off like a

rocket. And I think it may be because clips sort of exist in two at two levels, you have the thing that you're talking about Oscar where you have sort of like a social discovery mechanism of a clip where you where somebody shares a clip with you and I, hey, listen to this show. And then that's for your sort of, like personal discovery or personal edification. And you have this other level that clips exist.

And that's sort of that social media viral level, where you're intending not to just share it with one person, but you're

intending it to become a meme almost, right. And like the, the, the problem with the social sharing of, of clips, the viral sharing, is that you don't we see it on things like Tiktok, and Instagram, where it has, there has to be a currency involved, there has to be some sort of like, you have to have this big follower account, it takes a lot to build up to the point where sharing that, like takes is worth the time and effort for you to do that. And then there's on the social side

of things. If you're not, if it's not the potential to go viral, and get you some sort of income in return, then really, the effort involved of clipping is too much. Because even though clipping has been made easier, it's still a lot of tedious work to get the timestamps, right pull those in then clip it out. The the social aspect that we started with, I mean, the only reward you get if you make a YouTube clip, is how many people viewed it or likes etc. Yeah, we really don't have that in

podcast clips. There's no There's no reward mechanism. There's no dopamine hit. So having that reflected in Satoshis There you go. That's all you need. That's, that's, that's fine. That's the dopamine. That's the social currency. And Oh, guess what, it's real currency.

Yeah, and if and if you add even if you could even make it more dopamine, if you could take the dopamine and turn it up to 11 and say, the not only getting SATs, but there's leaderboards and now you've now you've got the viral thing going on top of the money thing. I think I think it can be doable and I think this is the honestly I think this what you're talking about Oscars the only way to make clipping take off. Yeah. In a big way.

Oscars the Oscars muted himself again, that's illegal. Illegal. Illegal. Yeah. Anyway, that's, that's, that's my thoughts. I don't see any other way that clipping becomes becomes the sensation that we think it can be without, without that reward mechanism there. It's just too hard. No. Well, I'm very excited about all these features. And I see you I

mean, I see your vision Oscar, I really do I see it. And, and, and obviously, the hope is that all these cool things you put together, you know, be great if they if they feed back the information can work in other apps. That's fantastic. Definitely. That's fantastic. Oh, yeah, for sure. And we can you know, as long as we can figure all of that out we definitely want to do that and you know, as a as a podcaster. You take your clips with you just like you take your episodes

with exactly. So yeah, definitely supportive that this is a value for value project. Those of you listening those Hello, chat room. Bye, everybody. People have been boosting live which has been good to see we've got the boost bot hooked up. Oh, no, I guess we don't I guess since we changed the feed. Well, we had the boost bot. But the feed was lit for a while. So this we are doing this live and then we're

running with scissors. You heard that earlier. As part of the manifesto that I'm working on, I will be explaining how to ask for people to support what you're doing. That's all you have to do is talk about it apparently in a pew pew show. So how to ask is it's really incredibly important. Our ask for this show is pretty simple. Everybody can see the results

right there at the index. You can see the work that's being done and the end liquidity that's being provided and we're very very pleased you know, the The we're healthy we're moving forward because people are very consistent so keep it going keep on boosting keep on sending us Fiat fun coupons we I would like to thank a couple people to get it started off little Stanley in our blood there that's your cue, Dave. Oh,

I thought you said I would like to thanks, man. I thought you had a list I didn't have Oh no. Well, you know what, why don't I run quickly through the live booster grams. Okay. 2000 from see Brooklyn. One 112 Thank you for your courage. We have cotton gin tonic. This ESG stuff sounds depressingly less awesome with 9999 set 10,000 from boost brewery shout out to Mitch for getting BTS lit in pod verse last Monday night yes pod verse now also doing the live item

tag. Shout out to Oscar and fountain for playing gifs in the chapter art go VHS effects go chapter's go podcasting. Go everything. Yes, Cotton Gin Tonic and other 9999. Let's see we have Carolyn, that that was 8888 from her hug story question. Thanks for Spencer for your 3333 and your 6960 nines, a couple of them. Another row of eights for podcasting. 2.0 says Carolyn 8888. I enjoy using fountain question for Oscar will be the wave. Will there be a way for podcasters to control their

presence on fountain? I'm not quite sure what she means. What does that mean? Do you know Oscar? Yeah, I think it probably means this is something that we've heard a few times, which is we have profiles on fountain. But right now if you have claimed a podcast, your profile doesn't look any different. Okay, this user is the host of this show. Got it? Yeah, that's something definitely look to add soon. Excellent. Fletcher. 5555 says you can't beat freshly made

sausage and sweaty butt cracks. That's right. Servo with 1000 SATs live item shot HSMAI vitam. Yes. Chad Pharaoh says there was 3333 This feels like a real board meeting. Yes, yes. What do you mean feels like it isn't real board meeting? And let's see. Yeah, and then the rest came in before the show. Alabama we call this won't but you know, within two minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you can have it in Alabama or in Texas if you're editing live code. Yes. And both results in the same.

Thank you all very much. Keep boosting us with a modern podcast app new podcast. apps.com. We have no individual Pay Pal donations. We had a good week last week so expected to fall off but sad puppy, but that's okay, we have some monthlies. I'll do the monthlies. First. We have Scott Jalbert $12 Thanks Scott. Chad Pharaoh $20. the ever present Chad Pharaoh Loretta Vandenberg. Is that a

Dutch name? Yeah, could be okay. Sounds Dutch Yeah. Mark as Loretta gave $10 Mark Graham $1. David meet us $10 Hope love and lit to David meet us for his daughter has skateboard accidents. Oh no. Yes. All things with wheels can kill you. Yes. Is she okay? I think so. He says she's she's gonna be get bruised and cut I've had many skateboard accident.

Boris Boris kudelski $1 and Joseph maraca $5 Jeremy new $5 and Cameron Rose $25 good time to say that just remind everybody that the $125 for T shirts if you want a t shirt is donation because we we get that sorted out now we get the t shirt thing back in business. We got some moose from and you can tell me if I repeat a boost that was live last week. I think I don't think I've got the timing right. Okay, okay. Hard Hat gives the road ducks 2222 through curio caster he says try six.

Okay, I'll try six. I'll try seven. Roy scheinfeld Our buddy 54,321 SATs. Yay. See the big baller. II see a big baller for today. Big boost. Thank you, Roy. Yes, he is the baller shot caller 20 blades on him power boost boost. Nice you Roy pinata big baller today get an honorary Devorah check. Yeah, we don't mess around. And it's just a big it's a big row of, of emoji that my email client refuses to parse. I don't know what what he actually sent.

I gotta figure that out. Oh, Carolyn, this must be Carolyn from Hawk story. Row ducks. 2222 through fountain. There you go, Oscar. Very nice. Throw out some rubber ducks. Steven B is all bummed out on the mastodon. No, don't worry. It's just been an embarrassing day. Sorry for all the extra work now. To do you gave us 20 minutes of free content to appreciate it cannot buddy. This in the chat, duck ducks and emoji ducks in emoji action. Okay, there again. I cannot interpret my emojis

here so sorry. Currently, this is a problem. Yeah. Hard Hat back with more dogs. 2222 is day holy crap. I gotta be hittin the Duck Hunt map each just keep that just hit. f5 just refresh. Yeah. 4400 sets from Sir dog. And he just says boost. Yeah. Boost. And that's through fountain. What how's it feel? Oscar. It's pretty. It's pretty awesome to see. Like all these booths coming in from, you know, from your app and knowing that this stuff originates with tech that you build in that fun.

It's really fun. Yeah, I mean, it's great to hear the booth on the show. But I mean, meeting people in person as well. That was the best out in Bitcoin, Miami. You know, just a couple of people. I was just standing in line next to and told them what I did. Oh, yeah, fountain. Yeah, I use that. Good feeling. And yeah, I mean, ultimately, I just love listening to podcasts anyway. So I'm doing this for me, basically. But it's just good that other people enjoy it, too.

Yeah, yeah. That's, that's what I always try to tell people about developer motivations. Developer motivations are really simple. Obviously, we got to have food, the food on the table. Really pizzas, that's it new. And Mountain Dew may be more important than, than making a living. And this is embodied in the open source world is the satisfaction of building something and seeing people enjoy using it that that is a pretty big reward in and of itself.

And I can tell you from the from the daily statistics that the number one sat sending app is fountain. Yeah, and that's always followed by breeze or curio caster or cast. ematic which I think Dave you've been using Casper Matic Haven't you Dave? Yeah, yeah, I can tell I can tell when you're using custom Matic bounce around the church. Oh, I bounced around all the time to I'm using everything. Including kill your FM synth 5000 SATs through fountain says Whoa,

thanks for the mention guys. I'm enjoying drinking from the fire hose. Association of music podcasting has since been retired, but it was originally founded in 2006 to represent both independent artists and podsafe music, as well as the podcasters promoting and playing them sort of a beacon for both artists and podcasters to rally around the way podcasting 2.0 is shaping up, maybe a similar organization could be a valuable resource. Thanks for everything you're doing. Well, you're welcome.

Oh, I think this is going to happen. I'm not sure how it's going to form or what's going to happen but we're going to need we're going to have a version of podsafe music it'll be value for value or whatever. And there will be education resources, necessary apps all kinds of stuff, but there's demand out there. You can feel it everywhere. Well, Spencer is going to do it or die trying.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Dirty Jersey whore. Okay 1000 through fountain What do you let people like that on fountain? They're really You gotta you gotta moderate that shit brother. Yeah, that this is horrible. Yeah, I'm gonna let I'm gonna let Janka Whitner this. He just bought a box of meats from KFC cattle using my Umbral bone broth boost. Oh, yeah. Boost Nice. That's That's your new venture, right? Yeah, yes. Yes. I have bought a ranch and I'm, I'm boxing up meat as what

I'm doing these days. I'm so happy KNC cattle, they're from Austin. They are part of the beef initiative, which is Texas slims entire push who came out of retirement to teach people about food again and and how it all originates from the seed and what real pure beef is and what it what it does and what it doesn't do and and they have connected everybody through

Bitcoin. So here you can see KNC cattle bought using my Umbral yeah, that's, that's a bit coin purchase right there and couldn't be happier. So I didn't have time to print these out. So I'm reading I'm doing them through my email. And the the way my email window is configured at the moment is kind of scrunched up on the on the thing and you'll have a look up to two emails above where I'm at right now. The subject line is cut off and it says the art CEO

is very high. If I expand it, this is very high on podcasting, but there's when I first says Oh, all right. I didn't know that about him. Sir Shauna the Allegheny Valley says 2500 SAS through cast ematic speaking of he says, boosting the bots are Yo Yo yo yo, here's your cue to boost you know, you want to vache the A ke soon as 400 SAS through fountain. He says he or she says testing out the boost feature. It works to Graham.

Test successful CASP eland 3690 through fountain and he says thanks for the show. No complaint UCaaS 4848 SATs through from comic strip blogger through fountain and he says returning back here 3333 Plus tiny bonus. Oh yeah. Regular. What is this about? Well, he, he he was this is the test that we did. He said, Hey, fountain I have now a [email protected] address, but it's only for fountain. And I went No it's not. And I sent and I sent him 3333 From breeze to his fountain address. That's how

I know that it works quite well. Widely. And so you didn't use comics, your blogger Thank you do not have to send it back. But thanks. We'll take it. I'll send regular tin oh three, three next week to meaning of 4848 equal phone prefix in Poland. Okay. All right. Nice. Thanks, chemistry. Another one from chemistry. comes through blog races just returning your second 3333 meaning of 48 Poland country code. I have plenty of cash to send me anything. Oh, unless you want to

test stuff. No, just send us more. Thank you. Yeah, just keep doing it. Keep sending refresh. Lyceum 1776 So that's that's the Liberty boost. Yep, yep. Through fountain and he says my first boost. Great, awesome. Boost. Another 7770 76 He says Adam best premises with a value for value manifesto. Okay, thank you working on it. Oh, there's Dave Jackson. There. Yeah. Dave Yeah. 7777 through cast Matic and he says styler boost.

Nice. Also a Christian boost I learned recently 7770 sevens is all good Christian numbers I've been per line I'm informed the perfect number floydian slips send us 2000 SATs through fountain and he says paying forward the SATs fountain paid me paying forward this at fountain paid me for using the app. Thanks Dave. Adam and Oscar. Oh cool. Well, we'll get the band together. So there you go. Yeah. See at 93 says from Red Bull. This through breeze.

He says at 93 US Navy Chief Petty Officer moved from cert twin screw still loving the show rusty WFE web for BSD twin screw nice do we have what we had a D what do we have? It wasn't the do shows? Oh didn't know we have d defragmented that's it? Yes, yes. Yes. Do we need to defragment Yeah, well those people officer yes people boost for the first time you want to get a D fragmenting. We're here for you. Se OTT Skylane Yeah. says go podcast 2.0 That was 10,420 SATs.

Ooh, nice. Another nice reference. Okay, this is the bomb boost you get some of that second hand over there. Oscar. If it goes out on the table. Yeah, little bit. Nomad, Joe gave 2000 SATs through fountain and he says boosted again. Yeah, it's like you know, magic boost 55 552 sets from two Satoshi stream. Oh, hey Satoshi stream through fountain. And he says boost go. That's interesting boost the onboarding, boosting the onboarding. Love it.

Yeah, that's a double onboarding. So what? Why that's interesting that Satoshi stream boosted through the app through fountain app instead of just directly through the command line or whatever magic system they have. Because you you want to you want to boost the whole club. True, by the way, Oscar, you can you email me a light lightning ID to add to the splits for the show.

Yeah, I will do I'll send you a little video of what it looks like in Fountain to add other users as well, just in case you're interested in that. Very, very nice. Yeah, definitely want to see that. But I also just want to add you to our split for today. That'd be amazing. Thank you, of course. 16 1611 1611 SAS from slewed, and now that we know the pronunciation through fountain and he says, Where do I go? And how much do I have to pay to get my official podcasting license?

Forget about podcasts? Yeah, yeah. And what about those cool podcasting? 2.0 t shirts? Well, we just talked about it. 125 Whatever you do the accounting figure out how many sets you donate, but adds up to 125 bucks. Let us know and email me and I'll send you a t shirt. Yes, and the podcast. So podcast licensed.com. I have I was the one thing that I wasn't that I wasn't able to resurrect a gig

broke years ago. And I was doing OPML Yeah, I was doing subdomains so be like, you know, like, Adam at Adam dot podcast licensed.com and had a templated show my podcast license. But I think it's valuable. I think we're gonna have to start licensing people again so just have to figure out how to do it but we have that and there's nothing you can do right now. But stay tuned. You are doing that as the as the as the pod father as the vinner.

Joe Yeah, as they see now now we know we have to actually have standing. Now we can issue licenses. I think we can't we have standing enough standing to be the licensing authority. Yes, the licensing body considered dumb. Bitcoin dad pod sent 420 sets for 20 through fountain he said I had not made the connection between the oral tradition and podcasting that helps me understand why I love podcasting

so much. Heavy listener 10 hours a week. Can we talk about getting podcasting 2.0 into antenna pod? Well antenna pod has some bits of it I think almost honored honors boost yes honors yet, my antenna pod is Kunis on Mastodon is a sort of like a I think he's like a community liaison or manager or some sort of community advocate for antenna pot. And I know that they definitely have been looking at value for value and Bitcoin payments and things like that. But I mean, I think

antenna pod and very much is is into podcasting. Two point. Yeah, I just don't know. It's not a value for value. I don't think specifically. Yeah, not that far. But I think like namespace tags and stuff for sure. Yeah. Let me actually leave Look at that. That's a good I was already going there to go take a look. Okay. They support the funding tag and they use us for search. Right. So far to start. I think I want to say there's more than that. And then in the

website may not be current. Thank you Bitcoin dad pod. Yes. Comic Strip blogger. Oh, wait, there he is late labor. I'm sorry. Andy layman. Andy layman cast MATIC 257. Sassy says remind me again, why Adam didn't like loopback in his audio devices. Oh, because it's a you'd have no control over busing, you need busing? For mix minus and things of this ilk and you need control over the audio coming from your USB device, not just a straight

pass through. It's for gamers. It's not for professional audios, audio professionals who do podcasting. bussing would be more akin to what you get in something like Audio Hijack, is that right? In a virtual sense, but it's like you can route it's routing, its routing. Yeah, routing and control really control over because you can route with a with a loopback device, but you can't you have no other control over it. It's just there. There it is. You

can't know this. There's never going to be any processing on it. It's just it's just an input an input with no channel and you want an input to have an entire strip to manipulate that input. Yeah, that makes sense. Gotcha. Oh, yeah, here it is, comes through blogger. 15,033. So this is more. Hold on a second. Yeah, he's up the ante. He chose fountain. He says, How do you David Adams has been bitcoin is dipping. So this time I donate 150%.

That's so nice. Now there's a guy who's thinking about us. And your listeners are welcome to listen to podcast about AI. Really? Did you know about this book? I've heard of it. I heard about it on Korean Zookeeper. I heard it. I hear it on all different shows. Yes. Did you also hear that it's read by Gregory William Forsythe Foreman from Kent. Yeah, that's a guy who used to own a bar. I think pub Yes. Just type in your web browser or any podcast app. A i dot

cooking. Yo, yo. How you doing booster? Thank you. So yes, but that's right. That's it. Yeah. Gee, thank you so much, everybody for boosting your little hearts out. I haven't. I haven't done the math. Whiz Gregory William Forsyth Forman a big name in the UK. Oscar. I've never heard of him. He's a hologram. He's a hologram that comics are blogger programmed in his AI dot cooking lab or something like that. He's in my dreams. Yes, that is kind of interesting. And advertising in

this manner does work. Oddly. Yes. Another thing another thing that this booster grams are great for, of course, I'm gonna I'm gonna cross promote your app if you're paying me to cross cross promote your podcast. Hello is probably like, a it's probably like, what? 10 o'clock at night over there. Right now. Oscar?

Is 920 to nine. Yeah. Okay, that's trying to be mindful of your time because I did have one more thing I wanted to talk about if you're getting if your game because it is the potential for opening up the API. So and that just just meaning not having not needing tokens or API keys in order to access like some or all of the API calls. And the idea here would be maybe, maybe just search, or I'm thinking like search, and then podcast by by

feed ID podcasts by URL, maybe episodes by feed ID. It may be just like a sort of a start with a subset of API endpoints that can be made public and not using an API key. And that way we get the benefit of better caching. What do you do? I don't know. What do you what are your thoughts there? Oscar, do you think that do you think that would be a good way to go? Because I think well, let me let me flesh it a little bit more. My thinking is, if you know Apple's API is is is open. I

think some of it is closed. But but most of it the iTunes API, if you just want to look up basic metadata about a podcast it is that is open. And so that in and of itself makes it easy, and gives it sort of initial already called inertia. And I think that it would be if we want to truly be, you know, an alternative to that it would make sense to have at least some basic calls be open as well. What do you think? Yeah, it's something I've thought a lot about, actually, I

think there's two things that are important to consider. The first is that this is the way it works. Right now, in terms of, you know, applying for an API key is incredibly easy. Anybody could do it. So I don't think that's a barrier or blocker to people using the API. But then the second thing is, I do think that giving various third parties or just developers the ability to add value to the index by building on it, I think

is really cool. And I think that it would be amazing if there were more options to allow third party developers to extend the index offer additional services like search is a great example. Like, you know, if someone wanted to cry A project to extend the search so that it was more granular and had additional filters or different, you know, different things of that nature. I think giving developers the ability to do that would be

incredible. And it would make everything so much better. So yeah, those are my two thoughts, I guess. What are the benefits of opening the API? Dave? I'm unclear on that. Because I agree with Oscar that it's not not hard to set it up. You mentioned caching. Yeah. So the idea would be that, you know, we were behind Cloudflare. And we could benefit from Cloud flares, caching of

the results. That was take currently, you know, currently, if you have to have an API key, you're changing the request metadata, every time every time you access it, I understand. Yeah, yeah. And so it all looks to the caching proxies, as if they're, they're calls that can't be that can't be cached, can't be duplicated. So that that would be really the one of the main things and then, you know, like, like, what, like

what Oscar said is cool. In here's, there's a simplicity argument here, too, which is that when when people deliver apps, that don't, I don't need to say this, when when when a developer delivers an app to the public, they're going to have to put it that doesn't use a proxy on their side. Like, if they're not proxying, the calls, if they're just rolling out an app, and having the app itself contact the index, then they're gonna have to embed the API key anyway. So at that point, I

mean, the fact that you have a key is not helping much. And so that's been sort of a constant piece of friction there is that there's people were rolling out their keys in the app anyway. So I'm just thinking is just the simplicity thing. And, and, and, hopefully, a load, it lessens the load as well. Did the last time we discussed this? I do remember, there was a legal aspect that needed to be looked at, but I'm not so worried about it. But that's probably should just review.

Yeah, let me you're basically a lawyer. So you could do right? Well, yes, I've been. I've not passed the bar, but I've done two divorces. That helps. And green cards and a couple of green cards. Yeah, I'm very proficient. Yeah, you're like, literally, you're basically Legal Zoom. So we can just go. I don't know. I mean, it's, I think, maybe if if it's legally okay. And maybe somebody can let us know if

that's kind of what I'm putting it out there. So you keep the call to the value block, you would still need an API key, I presume? Initially, yeah. You know, I just don't know how it goes. But really, it's a caching it's an overhead. It's a it's a scale issue that you're talking about. There's no other real reason than that. That and just and the simplicity, the simplicity to make it even easier for developers. Not that it's that

difficult. But, you know, I mean, there's, if you're doing it through through the iTunes API, you don't you just do it. You just call it you don't have to have an A you don't have a key. Yeah, I understand. I understand. I'm assuming I'm assuming that if there's a legal issue with it, then you would like you don't sign it. You don't sign Terms of Service with it with apples. No, no, no. But it's you cannot compare Apple to us. One, because if someone comes along says, Hey, Apple, I'm

considering suing you over this apples like? Yeah. Have you met the have you met half of the building? Yeah. But again, I'm bringing it Yeah, I'm not that concerned about well, that doesn't really seem like it matters much other than for you for scalability and and for developers as well. You know what? That's where we have a mastodon people will weigh in on this. Yes, I want people to tell me why this is a great idea or a

bad idea, because I just don't know. Right? And that's I'm gonna I'm not gonna bring it up again. Good. Well, then we can scrap that off the list. All right. Bring it up again. Ah, hey, are you are you on your summer schedule? Now Dave? Do you have a Friday afternoons off or you have to go back off on free and clear? Oh, nice. Nice. Well, I do have some people showing up. So I'm gonna To wrap it up from my end, Oscar, thank you so much for joining us once again. And

thank you for all the work you're doing. And thank you for being a real leader in, in developing great experiences. It's quite, it's quite exciting to watch from from arm's length. Well, thank you for that, Adam. And thanks for everything you guys have done. I mean, we're just following your lead. So yeah, appreciate everything you're doing and we'll continue to push hard to try and just build as much as we can really. So yeah, thanks for having me on. And yeah, always good to chat.

Yep, yeah. Congratulations on everything so far too, because we've it's really fountains really turned into mature products as the last time we talked. It's it's really got a lot of Polish now. Yeah, it was. I look back to the one we launched then. I'm very embarrassed but we're getting there slowly. And if anyone listening is listening on fountain any problems just please email me Oscar at found endo FM. We do have a list that we're getting to all of them. So yeah, just send me an email.

Thanks everybody who sent us the monthly fee or fun coupons you can donate by going to podcast index.org Scroll down to the bottom you can also send us on chain Bitcoin and of course, you can boost us with a modern podcast app. You get it new podcast. apps.com Thanks, everybody in the chat room. Thank you for running with scissors. Thank you, Steven. B. We love you man. Not if we wouldn't be doing this if it

wasn't for you. So don't sweat the small stuff. Especially because it's just a bad look that sweaty lineup your butt crack. It's just not looking good. Dave pod sage. Yeah, what's up? Have a great weekend. My brother. You too, man. You have a good one. No, you got you got you got when do you what night do you do Tina in the keepers that we just did. We just did one on Tuesday. Correct? Correct. Yeah. Oh, yeah. This is a top show brother. Said hey, we'll do

alright everybody. Thank you so much for checking out the board meeting. We'll be back again Friday with another excellent meeting of the mind here for podcasting. 2.0 Have a great weekend. Bye bye. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 to visit podcast index.org. For more information