Episode 82: Ranking the Stars

Oh, podcasting 2.0 For April 22 2022, episode 82 we're ranking the stars. Hey, everybody. After a short hiatus, we're back with the official board meeting of podcasting. 2.0. You want to know what's going on with the podcast standards, formerly known as the namespace? What's happening in podcast? index.org? And most importantly, what's going on? What are we talking about a podcast index dot social, the

future and current developments of podcasting. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama. He's back and we'll hear why he was gone. My friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones. I tried to find a clip. This was from like, I don't know. 2025 episodes ago. Yeah. When I said, I think I made the statement that that I had just right before the show, and watched my son drive away on his motorcycle, and then I was terrified.

I remember that I remember that. It would be in the episode though. It's not a clip that we have separate, right? Yes. I think it was like right at the beginning of the of the episode. Yeah. Well, of course in a mid everybody hates their kid on this on two wheels with an engine my daughter's forbidden. I told her very early on I said you never ever ever get on an in or on anything that has less than four wheels. And if there's an issue you call me I will send a limo.

Whether it's intentionally less than four wheels, or by accident, either way, either way. Either way. Those are the limits and and she all by herself decided hot air balloons were also off limits because she rejected one of those because she knows I said, Hey, hot air balloons. You're basically controlled crash when you're landing so I don't like those either. So if you have to explain the hot air balloon thing to your kid, then there's no there's more.

So you bring this up? Yes, I bring this up because Wednesday, last Wednesday afternoon I get a call from somebody from froze some of somebody's using my wife's phone who is not my wife, which was problems all was always weird. Uh, yes. Pick up pick it up. I'm like, I'm like hey in this like, Dave this is you know, and it's her one of her co workers she's a teacher. Your son has been in an accident and I think we think

his leg is broken and but and I was like, Oh my God. Yeah, and so freaking out and you're at work at this point. Right? And this is yes. And this is just before this is the most busiest time of the year. You got you got accountants like can't fight again can't can't figure out their password capslock yes all current can't print can't for a bit that's number one. Isn't it can't print Oh, yeah. Oh, that's always

number one. Yeah. So she was like we don't know much we're trying to figure out what's going on we they're taking him to the hospital right now and but I don't even know where to tell you to go and so I was like, was not helpful. Yeah, she she was like, Give me Give me one minute and I'll call you right back once I found out so now you're just sitting there counting the counting the SEC Yes. She calls me back. It's like they're going to UAB which

is a hospital here in Birmingham. Very great hospital. Fantastic. It's like the it's like the third and busiest trauma unit. Emergency Room. They fly him in the chopper. No, no. We live we live like three minutes from this Austin. Still a valid chopper ride. He did get gypped like MASH style where we're on the stretcher on the skid. Yeah. Look, I'm laughing but it's not funny. Of course at this point. You're prepping

for me. Yes, there we go. So I get I get over there and I mean, it's just he's got he's got a broken right femur his he's got cracked ribs and all the other stuff but just you know, Road Rash and bumps and bruises but he's miraculously a you know, his helmet worked all that kind of stuff. He he that's it. And at the end of the day, he ended up with the broken femur and cracked ribs. He had a punctured lung but that seems was sliding.

He's got to but he's, it's gonna kind of be a road to recovery. Can I ask you a few questions? Of course you can one what happened? Well, he was in a three. He was on a three lane. One way road. A lot of one railroads in Birmingham, three lane. One way going. He had just left school was was driving in the leftmost lane. And a lady. I already know what happened. She didn't see him. She just went left and pushed him right off the road yet. Well, it was a little bit worse than that because she, she

has she backed up over him. I'm the guy you want in these situations, Dave, I will make you laugh all day long. This is why I did this while I wanted to do the show to make you feel good. Yeah, my son's lived in literally and they're laying on the couch and pain and I'm like, I'm doing the show just so I can get feel better about myself. And you deserve it. I deserve it that a yes. So he's he's in the left lane. She's in the middle lane. So She evidently we don't know why yet

or anything like this. She, I guess, though, she's gonna miss her turn didn't see him and just whips it across his lane into to make a left hand turn. And he and T boned. He, uh, he he almost T bone. I mean, she, she just he hit the front of her car and flipped over the hood landed a he went about 20 feet. Because he was going about 40 And that would be a record in the dwarf toss. That would be fantastic. It was a dwarf. I mean, that's a real bad one that he's lucky didn't have you

know, handlebars or something embedded into his crotch. You know, this is this is what very he did. He did bruises. Oh, yeah, he's got bruises all in the in the hips and everything broken. The broken femur is high. Right and right. And that's the worst for this the worst? Probably the femur. Yeah, they had so they put a titanium rod. Yeah. In the femur went in from the knee. Oh, it's dude. Yeah. So yeah, head operations. You had sleepless nights, but he's home now.

So we we get Yeah, we get home like, Saturday night. We get home late Saturday night. And then then you're in you know, when you get home from something like that. When you're in the hospital, we spent four days in the hospital. When your hospital you're in? You know, you know this. You're in like, alternate reality mode. Yeah, totally. You lose all track of time. It's like the it's like there is no world outside of what is

happening in your hospital room. Yeah. And so then we get home Saturday night, and it was like, then you have to learn how to live with this new thing, right? Like this new reality. Yeah. So, okay. He can't walk. But he's got to get to the bathroom. He can't, you know, we have this big schedule of medications to give at certain times of day. So we're near we're trying to figure this so then the next you know, next couple of days are just figuring out this new routine. And then think it was

Tuesday. Yeah. Tuesday night. He starts running a fever and and the pain the Tylenol pain meds don't stop it. And it's still like one on one. And we're like, oh, god, he's got some kind of infection infection. Yeah. So we're Oh, here we go. You know, so we go back, we go to the back to the emergency room, because it's like 1030 at night. Back to the emergency room. We were later on.

I feel so bad for you guys. I mean, we all went any parent has been through versions of this maybe not as severe but oh, man, this is shit. You know, it's the worst. And I told him before we go in. I'm like, Look, man, I hate I'm so sorry to do this, but something's wrong. You're taking you're taking the pain. You're taking the fever reducer but you still got like a one to one fever. Man, we don't have a choice. This is going to I'm telling you right now. This is gonna suck. We're going to be

there for probably six hours at least. But we just really don't have a choice. We got a we got to find out what's going on. So we we take him back. We were there until six o'clock the next morning. All night long. And they did all these tests just blood cultures and everything us scans and everything you can imagine couldn't find a single thing wrong with it. The only I mean you know, except the obvious but right no infections

or whatever. So then, you know they the doctor finally came in he's like, Man, I don't know the only thing I can think of is maybe he picked up a virus when he was when he was here. I really don't know he's like, just go back home and and keep going just keep watching them and like keep giving him the Tylenol. So with that, that that was Tuesday night so we've we finally kind of get back we got some sleep and he's stable and everything. Yeah, the fever seems to have gone down and they are going

back to normal and all that stuff. Yeah, it's just been a great it's been like the last seven days. He's a bit nuts. I need to ask you just a few more questions, and then I'll be done because now comes the parental questions. Yes. So at any sort of FAD parents yes. At any point did your wife Melissa did she say, I told you I told you should have never led? Was there any of that going on? None those words, but that was that was absolutely.

Okay. Now know. Is grant right your son grant? Yes, grant. So what? So you see him? And of course, he's like, I mean, so where are we at with this future? motorcycle riding? I guess is my question. There is no, there's no you don't have to. We did not have there. There was no parental Fiat. Yeah, it happened with that. He he volunteered that when he was like, I'm good. Good. I feel so bad for him. And for everybody. That sucks. But you

know, we have you ever been a bike rider? A motorcycle rider? Oh, yeah, yeah, I read a bike. I mean, I for years, I I never broke any bones. But I got scars and still some gravel in one of my elbows. We all have something from the two wheel experience, you know? Yeah, I did. I read bro dirt bikes when I was a teenager, and then I rode on the road for three or four years. And then it's like, at some point, I looked at it and said, you know, this is darn kids, three kids.

Instead, let me get an old beat up truck that goes 35 miles an hour. As much, much more much better. Yes, yes. Yes. Much better, by the way that that clip you sent me? It's zero bytes. Oh, cool. That's the one I wanted to send the one you can't play. Just let me know. Just let you know. Oh, man, I am I'm Well, I'm glad he's okay. He'll remember this one for a long time. That's for sure.

Yeah, it also has this weird. It had this weird effect where on me where I was thinking about how you're in the hospital alternate reality, I was just thinking about how, like, tight the schedule is, you know, like, all the things that I have to do during the week. And how, what what little margin of error there there is for probably six is a you know, we're I'm like 55 to 60 hours during tax season, at the at the day job in this. So usually I do quite a lot of podcast stuff and lunch and at

night. And then we do the podcast on Fridays at noon on my lunch break. And then we have the kids in, in school and their things of taking them back and forth. Not my youngest taking her back and forth to all these different places. There is such little margin of error when it comes to scheduling. And when something like this happens, you're like, it just all philosophy, like falls apart. Yeah, yeah, I didn't like I

didn't even go to work for Oh, good, good, good. You know, when you're when your kids laid up, it's like, there's just everything's like, okay, everything grinds to a halt. Yeah. Well, I was pleased to see that. Because of course, you checked out of everything and podcast index dot social conversation did kind of continue. I was very curious to see now if Dave's not there posting about stuff. He's doing what happens. And we can always kind of count on Brian of London. When I wake up in the

morning. You know, there's gonna be 10 vine of London posts. Yeah. All kinds of interesting stuff. And that was really good. The things things kind of continued not not with development or fixing anything, per se. But I saw lots of sharing of information, different ways to do things. It was some good stuff going on. So I'm happy that Yeah, we could we could basically do without you until the server's run out of gas. Now we really missed you. I missed you. I really miss you.

Because it's weird because we we chat a lot. On on the on the signal. And it's little things back and forth. And just like boom, dead air by Oh man. Yeah. Yeah, it's, um, I was keeping sort of like keeping an eye on it. Because there's, you know how it is. You're in the hospital. I mean, there's lots of sleeping. Yes, a lot of that. Yeah. Yeah, lots of sleeping, lots of family visiting that kind of thing. Some housekeeping in sort of keeping an eye on my

on my phone and everything. Just I just didn't have the mental energy to get into any debate anything, you know, conversation, but I kind of kept abreast of what was going on. The one thing I didn't, wasn't able to really kind of connect in with was, I couldn't listen to anything really. So I'm kind of out of the loop on some of the stuff that's been going on in the broader industry, but as far as The 2.0 in the Macedon, I kind of I kind of feel like I know what's happening.

Well, welcome back the board welcome issue, and we're glad to that everything's gonna be okay. The the platinum level health insurance that the board approved for podcast really hand at work? Yes. Okay. You made a Cadillac, the Cadillac plan? That's okay, I guess the Cadillac the Caddy? So I've got I mean, one thing I think we could do this is Nadia is I think we should have a program where we pay where we podcast index, hey, app developers to

write podcast apps, we could pay on like, $50,000 a year. And this is a brilliant program, because all we have to do is announce that we're going to do it. But we don't ever have to actually do it. Are you referring to the Spotify marketing program? Perhaps, what do you want to say this? Perhaps I am, but I'm just saying we can we can announce. We can do this all kinds of things. We can just, Oh, I see.

We can announce things in this, send it out to the press, they will do awesome PR who will diligently publish it and tell us all how great it's going to be? And then we don't but we don't actually have to do it. So it doesn't cost us anything. We just get great PR for free. And well, that's not true. Because eventually CR England will be on to us. And then he's gonna He's gonna call us out. No, none. That's it. But we don't have stock. It's all the

problem here is manipulating the stock prices. So we know this is we're not a publicly traded company. We get this for free. Right? Well, we, in our plans, this is true. Our plans for 2023 was to pay app developers $50,000 to build a podcast app. So that's our plan for 2023. I'm very proud of it. Yes. The podcast app developer creator fund. Yes. We're giving away creator grants. Great. Okay. Well, the developments and I have kind of like a meta overview. As in the

past. And really last year, there was a lot of jacked up pneus about Facebook, with podcasting, and YouTube with podcasting. And Spotify is going to do even more, and it's all kind of falling apart. It really is. Yeah. And I know why it's no one really wants to say it. But in my opinion, these companies have done that done the research, done the work and they say, you know, there's really no money in it because we can't deal and, and the articles show this, most recently from the

Brookings Institution, we can't deal with the moderation. And and the whole problem with advertising is that whenever someone doesn't like any content that you've created, they go to your advertisers. When did they can Okay? I purposely did not read the Brookings article, I start I read the first three paragraphs, I thought, You know what, this was may be more interesting. If I don't read this, because you had sent it to me and said you

wanted to talk about it. So I'm like, Okay, well, I'm not gonna read it. And I want it maybe that was, that was one it was one of them. It was one it was one of my morning and one of our morning chats. You know, it's like, yeah, and then nothing from Dave and shift. He says, You really hate what I'm doing here. I do that to my parents, too. That drives me nuts. How's grant and um, nothing radio silence for like, oh, oh, you're a horrible son. Nice, because I don't I'm close

to my phone. So this was policy recommendations for addressing content moderation in podcasts. That's the That's the title of this, this article. And escalation, by the way, because the previous article by the same reporter. No, I think this is a different report. I think this is the same reporter isn't? No, I think it is Valerie shifter. Yeah, yeah, cuz I remember the name. That's a hard name to say. I didn't I didn't realize that she is an artificial intelligence data scientist.

Yeah, remember? Cuz she did. Okay. So she's the one for, again for Brookings that did that big data analysis where she took like, 20,000 podcast episodes and looked for for like, misinformation keywords or something like that. Oh, you're right. That's right. She did. Yeah, she did all that data analysis. Yes. Well, now she's teamed out of Berkeley, I think. Yeah, probably. She's teamed up with another artificial intelligence data scientists to to write this.

What would you call an essay And there's a couple of things in here that are interesting, in fact, starts off debates over content moderation. And podcasts hinged primarily on whether and how widely to share so called lawful but awful content. I like that so much. That's the title of the no agenda episode for today lost. Oh, yeah, of course also, but also I love it. You're an alliteration expert.

Yeah, it's OCD, major podcasting apps. The applications commonly used on smartphones, tablets, or computers to listen and download the podcast episodes already have policies and procedures in place to deal with blatantly illegal content. Spotify or Apple podcasts won't knowingly distribute in an Islamic state recruitment podcast says doing so would open them to

prosecution for supporting a designated terrorist group. How podcasting have should handle hate speech, misinformation, and related content that is legal, but hate may have harmful societal effects is far less clear. So just reading this paragraph, I had to force myself to read the rest because the minute you get into handling hate speech, misinformation, very subjective and related content that's legal, but may

have harmful societal effects. So that right off the bat, they're saying, you know, this has to be human intervention based upon morals and standards and not not legality, right. It's not, it's not the, you know, the distinction there being legality. Being legality is something that the broader the broader public determines through a political process versus righties. opinion of the moment.

Now, let's get to the next paragraph because then you understand where all this is coming from, you understand what's going on in other news stories, and then we can go to what they what they suggest. Below the level of blatantly illegal content, the most popular podcasting apps face a daunting challenge. On one hand, given the scale and reach of apps like Spotify and Apple podcast, each now enjoys more than 25 million monthly podcast listeners in the United States.

Their content moderation policies need to account for the societal harms is interesting the societal harms that can result from the mass distribution of hate speech and misinformation. And here we go. Some examples popular podcasts played a prominent role in spreading the so called big lie in the lead up to the January 6, assault on the US Capitol, for instance, and have also been a key vector in spreading misinformation related to COVID 19 vaccines leading to

unnecessary deaths. So this is already political. It's already it's already political. And now you're misinformation is and President Barack Obama was out today talking about this. It's given people misinformation, it may very well be, but so are a lot of other things. And is it really speech or do people have any? Do people have any responsibility themselves, motorcyclists also kill people, but motorcycles, you know, and by the way, it's not the speed that kills you. It's the sudden

lot lack of speed that will, that will hurt you. So now, they don't really go into much of, of anything, really. But they feel that there should be regulation, regulators and lawmakers have a role to play in shaping policies in the podcast ecosystem. And they admit regulating podcast is difficult in part because it requires balancing the right to freedom of expression with the need to preserve societal welfare and protect against social harms. I'd like to understand where they got that from.

This distrust feels like a retread. It's feels like the same article being written over and over and over again. I agree. I mean, you know, we need we need rules and and, you know, what everyone calls censorship, on maybe maybe calling for regulation, but the regulation has to balance, freedom of expression. They don't even say freedom of speech, but freedom of expression. Okay, we'll take that with the need to preserve societal welfare and protect

against social harms. Whose job is that? Who's whose job is it to protect from preserve societal welfare and protect against social harms? And I don't know either it's very well, and they will tell you Yeah. I thought that's what we do through the process of governing. I mean, this this is the this is the issue is okay.

lawful but awful. Okay. Lawful is again, that is what EU lawful is what you come to, as a broad as, as a, let's just say, as a country, let's just reduce it down here to mate for simplicity sake, as, as UK as a country, you your laws are the things that you have, as a society, democratic, if we're speaking democratically here, as a society, through your representatives have passed in order to satisfy the will of the

people. If there's no this lawful but awful, that is always a shifting set of opinions of a of by definition of a few. Because if it was a opinion held by the many, or the majority, it would eventually become law. I mean, there's this is, this is by definition, the few trying to regulate perceived harm on behalf of the many when they're not, they do not have access to legislative power. Or am I wrong about

that? No, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, again, it all comes down to you know, where you are at this at this moment, this time in history this day, and everything can be awful. But there's a lot of awful content that is completely acceptable. And it's also killing people, even though it's certainly in mainstream. So this, but this is, this isn't what's happening here. This is in the United States, definitely political. We have Elon Musk threatening to open up Twitter,

buy it and, you know, bring Trump back. We have now that that's that this is what's going on. You know, this is why we see Barack Obama and President Obama coming out and saying, oh, you know, this is killing people. You know, the one and one and five families aren't vaccinated because of misinformation. Of course, it's all the podcasters fault. So here, they do have some thoughts on that. So it's a coordinated effort or a coordinated timing of publication. As you say, it's a

retread. Yeah. Why is it a retread because there's there's a push right now, where we have to save the Save the platforms that are would be Twitter, but also it would be Apple podcasts and would be Spotify. That that I think is what what this group of people want. So they recommend content guidelines and policies, but this is regulators who should require podcasting apps to clearly disclosed what their content moderation policies are. Now this is okay. I mean, it's fine. Yeah. Now the

problem. The problem is, a lot of this is done algorithmically. And I don't think anyone's going to want to I don't think anyone's going to want to publish their algos. But they give some examples here Apple podcasts has a prohibition on mean spirited content. Hmm. And they say we should know what that means. Well, this is exactly the problem. You can't explain mean spirited. And can it be distinguished from critical content? Yeah,

yeah. mean spirited. I mean, you're talking about I mean, could Ricky Gervais even have a podcast on Apple podcasts? Thank you. Thank you. Well, I certainly couldn't have any podcast because I can come across as very mean spirited. Yeah, like there's watch half the half the comics that are alive that would would be off. And I think And wouldn't that be great. This this may be part of

the of the process. But now we now there's something else. This is, again, by regulation podcast app should also be required to publicly and transparently disclosed high level details about their content moderation practices, as well as their review process. I'm so happy because we can check that box.

None. Okay, now, none. recommendation algorithms, podcasting apps should your favorite word should be required to disclose the content that recommendation algorithms are amplifying the most as well as basic details about how those algorithms work? Yeah, that's not gonna happen. No one's gonna publish that that's no information. Yeah. And most of it is you know, is friends family, payola who knows?

Okay, well this comes this is as so, so much of this goes back to when things went from time pure, chronological reverse chronological timeline to algos. because everybody is concerned, all people care about is the algo. In when you don't have an algo you're loser. I guess you have an algo. Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I heard James Cleveland, you have not

heard it yet. I didn't flip it for you. He literally said, podcasts index does does filtering podcast index has decided that the German version, the rip off version of pod news appears as number one in the search below the original pod news. That is James James's work. And he called it a decision. Oh, it was it was a decision, oddly enough, not even made by me. It was made by Steven Crowder who read submitted a pull request to the website with without even knowing. So that's

that's an interesting. Okay, so this is that's actually kind of an interesting discussion. I don't want to sidetrack us here. But we. So this is, I think, a very good illustration of why it is so difficult to make some of these decisions like to why it's almost absurd to expect to expect people to be held accountable for some of these things that are almost impossible. So you have this long standing debate between should the search results show the thing that is the most

popular, or the thing that gets the exact textual hit. So if you search for pod, if you search for, let's just say Adam curry, and there and there is a podcast that exists called Adam curry. That's the title of the podcast by somebody who just some rando from West Virginia who created a podcast on Anchor. Well, some people are going to be looking for that Rando podcast from anchor and maybe three total in the universe. But they may be

looking for it. And when they type Adam curry, and they get back no agenda as the first hit and they have no clue who you are or no agenda is. And then four layers down. Four levels down there is the Adam curry that they looked that they were actually looking for the Rando on. Funny thing was they were actually looking for Adam Carolla. That's why I wrote her Corolla, Corolla Corolla. And so that in when the question

is asked, Why, if this, if this is there is an exact match? Why would that ever not be the first result, because it's literally the exact match? Now I gave us I gave an extreme example where

the popularity differences is, is huge. But you could, if you, if you get that example down a little bit, it becomes more ill illustrative, where you say, Okay, there's, and I went, I went through this exact exercise for a podcast host, hosting company that contacted me a few months ago, and said, hey, here, here's what we're looking to do. We want to use the index to do some searches. But we really need the search results, to

return this particular type of result set. And I went back and forth with them through two or three iterations to get it close to what they wanted. And the question was being asked, well, we're searching for this thing. And here's an exact hit of of the title. That's the one that we want. But it's it's like, pushed down so far that is paid off. And, and the use case here was for people searching for their podcast. So like, it could be anybody. It could be people coming from anchor, it could be,

you know, anybody anywhere. And so you're quick, the question is, as you get sort of down the popularity chain, where the differences are not so huge. It makes, it doesn't make a lot of sense for you to judge popularity. Now. It's just about exact title hits. But where's that line? I mean, at what popularity, what even is popularity level when you're talking about algorithmic decision making, like this.

There's there's also a couple where there it's a little bit of apples to oranges and the reason Why I'm saying that is because when someone's searching for a podcast or a person, it's a little different than a recommendation. Now, I presume that the reason why the German result came first is because Deutschland Uber, Alice. Well, that's exactly that's. I mean, obviously. So what So clearly, and so I've searched to me searches a hole.

It's of course it's it's algos, but it's a whole different deal and search as you just as you just explained, he's really hard. How do you satisfy what everybody wants? Now, I'm looking at this now, sir, if you search for pod news, the exact title of the first one that comes back is pod news. James is James's podcast is called pod news, podcasting news. That's the right show. Right.

And that's why it flipped to the top because when Steven submitted the pull request, what he did is he changed the website behavior so that it's doing two searches. It's doing one search for exact title hits, and another one using the normal popularity ranking that we get from the API. Okay, so basically, it was it was bad SEO. That is to do pod news, podcasting news. Yeah, that's good. SEO for Google. Right? Yo, for us.

Right. Right. Now, we clearly did not with the partner. Is that is that a rip off feed that German feed? is? I think that I really don't know if it's a feed from 2009 is dead. Oh, really? Yeah. It's a dead feed. Well, I should say that. And then what can you also kill the no agenda fee that has been hijacked on the substack? Whoa, is for real? Yeah. Someone is somebody in the index? Yep. So when is mirroring the no agenda? Its current on a sub stack.

Which means it could be making money off of it, too, I guess. Yeah, they possibly. Yeah. Because that's a that's that's fraud. So for sure. This is a complicated question. And is, is there an answer? Well, the answer the here's the classical answer. When I say classical, I mean, I mean, like the answer that has developed over the last 10 years. The answer is, you begin to tweak things manually, you begin to boost, you see that, that you

see that the algorithm has, has given you a result? That is not desirable? And doesn't make sense to most people? Okay, you say, Well, yeah, yes. Okay, here's five searches. Four out of those five times, the exact title hit is giving us is giving us what we want, right? The fifth time. It's just not working. And there's really no way to do it. So I can't change the algorithm, because that's going to fix up the s gonna screw up the 80% of the time is correct. And it's just to get

the 20% of the time to be right. So you go in there, and you fudge it, and you manually start tweaking things, to boost certain to boost certain things over other things when certain searches happen. And now you've got manual curation, and now you are actually making humans are making decisions. So here's, here's the problem I have with what's being asked. And by the way, they're putting all of this onto the, the apps. And I know

that they really mean apple and Spotify. They they say apps, I don't think they mean overcast, the curio cast or pod friend podcast. I don't think they mean any of that. By why is it that podcast apps would be forced to do all this work. And remove stuff, tell people why they removed it, but actually remove it. And search engines can just while we're down ranking, they get a pass. They don't they're not forced to by any legislation to remove content.

And the exact ad the exact data and I can answer that question, okay. The answer to that is in a article from September 7 2001 and The New York Times, okay. The title of this article is US versus Microsoft. The lobbying. A huge four year crusade gets credit for a coup. From said article, it says from a cold start just four years ago, Microsoft assembled a formidable lobbying apparatus that worked to touch anyone who could have any influence over the antitrust case to case against it.

Particularly during last year's election campaign. Republican candidates including George Bush, Microsoft and its employees donated $4.6 million last year to federal political candidates or parties, more than two thirds of it to Republicans, according to an analysis by the Center for Responsive Politics, and the company paid at least 6 million more to lobbyists who are charged with persuading politicians to accept

Microsoft's point of view. Going a little bit deeper, it says when the Clinton administration's Justice Department filed his first suit against Microsoft in the fall of 97, the company had a one man lobbying shop here and we're here in DC, with an office above a suburban Washington shopping mall. The company's political donations of all types to federal candidates that year totaled less than $100,000.

Microsoft, then, company executives said at the time considered Washington, a distant and largely irrelevant.on, the map far removed both physically and spiritually from his headquarters outside of Seattle. So yeah, they this is why people like this is why companies like Google will never have anybody in Washington. Seriously, they may they may lip service, do a, me know do some sort of zoom call with them or whatever, just to get some political points, but they'll never seriously

tinker with them or force them to do anything. No, because billions and billions of dollars of campaign contributions are at stake. That's that's your answer. Bet and podcast index. Sure. Somebody may come you know, try to embarrass us for our decisions or Spotify. Maybe because who knows? They probably don't do much lobbying. But as soon as the spigots open, and the lobby money flows, Oh, that's right. This is all these things disappear. And remember, Brookings Institute, Brookings

is a lot is a think tank in Washington. Yeah, all these think tanks are headquartered in DC. They all play by they all go to a lobbyist lunches, and things like it's all the so believe me. This is all political. This whole article was political. There's this some reasonable ideas in here, you know, the transparency is fine. It makes total sense. But under the recommended algorithms is only four we only have one more

to go. As we documented last year, more than 50% of popular political podcast episodes between the November election and the January sixth assault on the US Capitol contained electoral misinformation. And and I didn't clip it, but I heard that I was in the car. And I heard pieces from President Obama's speech at Stanford today. And lo and behold, if he didn't say, Steve Bannon has a problem and content like Steve Bannon does have to has to be dealt with. I'm paraphrasing.

And if you look at the previous article, like you said, January 4 value workshop offer. She says in links to it here, just as we documented earlier this year, and there it is, on the morning of January 6 2021, Steve Bannon encouraged the audience of his podcast, not to waver their faith. So this is a coordinated attack. On all forms of media, they these people, and these people specifically, just don't like the fact that anyone says something that's not in line with what they say. And they

have a platform they don't like it. And here's the from from this New York Times article again. The lobbyist, remember, this is from Microsoft. The lobbyists spread position papers around Washington and wrote op ed page pieces, among many other tactics that grew so numerous and prolific, that they sometimes wound up quoting each other. In

1998. While the suit was in trial, Mr. Barber wrote an opinion article for the chronicle of for the chronicle of Augusta, Georgia, making the argument that the American people oppose the government suit to support that he cited a national survey published by two other Microsoft finance groups, Citizens Against Government Waste in the technology access Action Coalition. There's there's your think tanks and there's that's how they effectively lobby on behalf of corporate interest

also. So this is a a lobbying piece. And the final piece is funding and this is where it gets really funny. At present advertising represents the primary source of revenue for

the podcasting ecosystem. While Apple requires advertising to be in compliance with the law and Spotify requires content providers to comply with applicable laws and regulations, including sanctions and export regulations, there are few obvious guidelines in place for financial disclosures in podcasting, beyond those dictated between sponsor and series. So, you know, this is a problem, where's the money

coming from? Furthermore, it is unclear how apps might determine if and where to report when a podcast is, in fact, in violation of applicable laws. As a result, anyone could in theory, provide financial support for a podcast, including foreign governments or obscure funders link, the link, the link goes to Steve Bannon was de platformed. And obscure media mogul keeps him on the air so that you see what this is all

about. As with radio reporting, guidelines, regulators could help bring transparency to this opaque business model by delineating clear public financial reporting processes for podcast series. So interesting, because if they start to write regular legislation or regulations about who's funding a podcast, I I'd like to have some transparency for all media, then. Let's make sure everybody knows exactly how much Pfizer is spending on cable news.

Yeah, I want a spreadsheet showing it every donation to Fox News, and MSNBC and all of these, these outfits I want, I want a spreadsheet that shows the top the top donors donors, average out the top advertisers and how much they spend every quarter. That's what I want. That's if we're gonna do it. Let's just do it from top to bottom. No, but the thing is, none of this is is hard to figure out. But they want it to be different for Steve Bannon, I guess. Yeah. I

think that's a good very good that you. That you that you pulled up that New York Times article, cuz that says it all I'll finish the immature content and moderation Ruse and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, with Spotify, YouTube, and now substack, stealing content entering the podcasting market in ways that up in the West, open architecture, the medium, the space now encompasses both more traditional media business models, as well as newer, more decentralized ones value for

value anybody. Lightning Network as a result of flexible, broadly applicable approach to monitoring content and regulating podcast platforms will become increasingly critical. It's only if you're in the business of winning or losing elections, I guess that it becomes critical. So but I think this is one of the one of the two or three reasons that we will not see Facebook doing anything of any and I think I said this from day one, this is Lucy and the football, how many

times you're gonna see this. Same with YouTube. What else is on the horizon? What other I mean, look, even for Facebook, Amazon, I know. I know what happened with Facebook, Facebook saw clubhouse, and they went, Yeah, we got to do that. And everyone, you know, it takes a while to ramp this stuff off. And we'll do it with podcasting. Though. Cubans doing it. I was getting

to the guy, and ones rockin and rollin. And then and then all sudden the news is well, clubhouse is broken as dead, no one uses it as falling apart, do no more downloads, whatever the metric is. And that's when everyone pulls the plug, because what they know is you just can't make a lot of money, Google level money. With podcast advertising. There's not enough. There's not enough a level brand sponsors that will take that leap.

No, there's just there's just not that you can't. Yeah, the only way to the only way to make any money in, in podcast advertising is to sell is to sell the ad so broadly, but you can't do it. You you do it on volume. But you can't do that. Because it's not brands say no, it doesn't work. And here's here's the here's the clue. From what I understand Facebook and this, this is what every single Podcast Network does. And I know this because I

went through this cycle. This is why I keep telling people you can't monetize the network. The minute you see a podcast network or platform, announced the following. Well, we're going to do branded podcasts. So we're going to do a podcast from McDonald's. We're gonna produce a podcast for Citibank. That means it failed. They couldn't make money on advertising. So instead and the advertisers they want, they want a cool podcast but they want total control. So make it our podcast, and we'll

pay you for it. And I believe I think is Facebook is going to charge a million bucks. For a I see Face Book, branded pocket. That is the death of the industry. That's that's the main reason that I said, no, no. Here branded podcasts. So no, I have have to leave pod show have to leave me Bo because now we're just making podcasts for the advertisers instead of having

the advertisers advertise on the shows. Yeah. Branded podcast works with brands, creating digital content is part of an integrated marketing or elearning strategy. Well, I had somebody privately tell me, probably houses probably maybe nine months ago that that they were doing getting out of just doing podcast shows like starting new shows and starting to do more. Exactly, exactly this brand branded, specific corporate podcast. I think gimlet wasn't gimlet also doing this.

I don't know. And well, the reason they told me was that is just money. They're like, I can just make more money. If the if the corporation just pays me directly and I just do what they tell me to Yeah, like, it's just a whole I can, I can do. I can make as much money from one of those shows as I can from four of the other ones, but even more, even more. Yeah. And that's guaranteed brand safe.

Here Game Live, which was purchased by my Spotify. gimlet has two core advertising products, traditional advertisements, and branded content. They all have to hear branded content is anything else we make for a brand or company? If for example, Acme Inc, asks us to make a weekly podcast for them in which we interview Acme Inc, scientists and over which they have final creative control. That's branded content. It sure is. And that's that end because they've seen it. You it's been

the same for for me for 15 years, 17 years. It always winds up with that. Either. You're making really cheap, really low, low grade production content, just to have high volume and you got a lot of square space and Casper mattresses and what is the manscape manscaping funny we got it we John and I both got a manscaping pitch. Hey, we think manscaped will be a great great product for the no agenda show this really. Man says heavier. I John got into it with the guy like I checked out like, I can't

believe he answered it. But that's it. It's not going to work. There's no money, not enough money. And let's put it that way. Now. Is there a business for you to have individual sponsors and it may be relevant like a lot of Bitcoin podcast. I think there's there's some relevance there. I love some of the advertising on Bitcoin. I got a what is it? Accuracy? Oculus. It's a hardware. It's a hardware wallet and an act like a treasure town looking like a treasure type?

Yeah, yeah. But it but it's a it's actually a like a metal credit card size card. And it has Yeah, I think I've seen that. And you hold it against the back of the phone. That that's your private key. Oh, yeah. So it's kind of cool. Yeah. So you have the app on the phone. And you can do it two ways. You can set it up. You can it's three factor

authentication. So in one mode, you fire up the app, you have to use your biometrics, which I find useless because if someone's got me, they can they can get through that one easy, then it then you can do everything you want receive. But if you want to send, then you have to do two things, you have to enter the passcode. And you have to hold the near field communication. You have to hold the card with a private key on

it. The way I like it is the app is it the minute it opens up, it says you got to have this card, otherwise I'm not going any further. And the other two factors is when you send something What's it called? I thought it was our cute little rise. I have one here actually hold on.

Oh, you actually physically have one? Yeah. Oh, actually, it's funny because I bought one for myself and one for Tina, Oculus AR c u l u s t i had the, of course, this is what everybody does is like hey, man, I gotta get a hardware wallet because you know, my valuable Bitcoins. And so I got the, you know, the trays or whatever that is I got one of those. And the

other day I'm like, I got to consolidate. I've got to Many wallets, everyone want to put it all into one or most of it all into one wallet as a separate emergency wallet that I know the passcode the 12 words out from memory, but I don't want everything there. So now I'm gonna start collecting stuff. So

and this is this pissed me off to no end. So I get my tracer and I you know I set it I plug it in, I fire up the software on the on the computer, and everything's out of date because I haven't used this thing for you know, for two years maybe. So, so the firmware is out of date, the software is telling me to upgrade. And you know, it's like having trouble connected to your to your device and like, Oh, my goodness, I have to troubleshoot the whole point is all it does is just giving me a

key, right? It just, yeah, it's given me the key to do something. But ah, so I decide to do the best thing, the fastest thing is to go go retrieve the seed words, and I just recreated that wallet in blue, then sent it all over to the final destination and through that trays are out. Yeah, that this just just do a cold card if you want to do

that. I mean, you don't have to you don't the more technology you get on the other side of that the more fraud it is, I mean, that's the real so I don't believe in I mean, if you need money, Bitcoin, lightning, whatever, you know, just put a little bit I got I use breeze typically, and I got, you know, 500 bucks on that. And, you know, for if I need to pay for something and if I need to refill a wall, it's just handy to have it in one night. My whole fortune is not going to be

on that. So so I don't need to use you know, a hardware key for daily transactions. That's something you basically want to have at home or in the safe or, you know, something that you can then go retrieve and use it but when you retrieve it and want to use it. And everything's out of date. Yeah, yeah, that's that's the world if everything has firmware. Your life's gonna be crap. Yeah. Oculus by the way is kick ass it. I do like that. Like that idea.

People don't understand. But what people don't know is that this is this the last 10 minutes conversation have been of native ad for archivists. Hey, let's do something different. And now it's time for some hot podcasting standards talk. The same ring on it. Let's play it again. And now it's time for some hot podcasting standards talk. doesn't quite have the same ring. This is a fresh name. Jennifer. That's

right, baby. We're not We're not messing her. I think she did a standard one without it without that tagline. Okay. So the, you know, Castillo's, you and our friends. Yes. Yes. Yes. Matt And Greg. They are now shipping pod pink support in their seriously simple podcasting plugin. False. Yeah. Beautiful. And are we seeing pings? I have not looked yet. But mostly because I don't know how to identify them yet. So by URL, basically. Well, busy. It's not that these are all self hosted.

Right? Well, yeah. Well, how many self hosted URLs? Will we see? Not many, I don't think Well, in general, I don't know how many people are pod pinging and self hosting. You know, that's, that's a good point. That's a good point. So we need to start looking for et Cie, I'll just look up throw it up here and I'll occupant on it. But they they did this in there. This is like a you know, you can upgrade your WordPress plugin.

So then it's going to take a while for this to sort of like, filter out as people upgrade to the new version that has this in it. And I don't I mean, I don't know how many installs they have. I started watching the other day trying to spot some and I guess just it was just too new. It only been released like six hours before so nobody had upgraded yet. But I started trying to figure out how many installs this was. And I want to

say that. I want to say that Matt had told me once before or told us I think he said on the show that it was something like 20,000 But I don't maybe I can be completely made that I can make the number of the seats in the past they didn't have a way like power press plus the fee. generator tagging the RSS feed, so that you can identify Okay, here's a power press install because their power press and N seriously symbol are the same type of deal. They're both WordPress plugins. And, but the

seriously simple did not put a generator tag in. So I couldn't always identify. So if it's a self hosted URL, then you don't know who it is. Or what you don't know how to credit it. Usually it should be credited, really as Castillo's. But there's no way to divert to identify. But there, but this is great. I mean, this is awesome. They're using the hybrid key, that half and half key that we talked about. And they're using that and they're the first. They're the first one to push

out. Pod ping to self hosted podcasters. Way to go. Yeah, yes, kids killer, and they're using pod ping dot cloud, which is the right way to do it. So the pod press plugin should be able to do this too. I guess anyone should be able to do it. Yeah. Yeah. And when I gave Todd and Mike, the keys and everything for them. Yeah, I think they're I think they're working on it. Yeah. Now that now that they can stop the Facebook integration work. Yeah. Not on the priority list. And that's a

friendly rub. That's a friendly rub. Oh, and I forgot to mention as part of the previous topic, the Obamas exclusive deal was ending. And I think we've discussed that many times what the problems were were that. Yeah, although it's fun to see the Obama say, Yeah, we're not thinking of renewing with Spotify, we're looking for another partner. And Zero Hedge. Definitely more conservative. Their headline was Spotify drops the Obamas. I think that is probably closer to the truth.

I think so. I think so too. Because, again, didn't pan out the way they wanted it. And I'll tell you exactly why it pan it didn't pan out. It has nothing to do with with their with them politically. It was boring. Thank you. This show was so boring. That's the one thing that everyone forgets to talk about. It was yes. And the Bruce Springsteen thing that Brock did was like, No, I sat through an hour and a half of that of that crap, just to

get some funny clips. And I remember that, and I remember that again, ever again. I still have one of those clips that I got a baller at a baller clip from, from the shale. And I think got a couple of clips from the show. here's the here's one from Obama Springsteen and not knock on some doors with me and make some phone calls with me if you chose this. No, no, it's not your clip. You're right. What is that? That's not Obama springs. Obama Springsteen.

He was fired up, though. Yeah, well, that was a while ago, I guess. Maybe Springsteen opened for Obama on this campaign. We have. This may be your clip. This episode of The Michelle Obama podcast is brought to you by Salesforce. No, no, that's not it. Well, that that could have been my clip, because I could have been saying that this isn't gonna last very long. Right. Well, you know, from what I understood, they couldn't fill the the inventory. And that's why after three months, they

opened it up. And every podcast I've had, it was no longer exclusive. Yeah. And Spotify told Spotify told the press that Oh, no, that was just that was just windowing, that was advertiser windowing. See? Yeah, we were going to keep it exclusive for a little while and then open it up, which, you know, and that's fine that they said that, except now that we now we know, the Spotify laws about all this stuff they do. So it's not real. Yeah, it's, but just bottom line. I just need to say it. It's

individually on a smaller scale. Yeah, you can of course get sponsors. You know, we do not really have a great what do they call it programmatic ad insertion industry for podcasting. And by the nature of the content that cannot be whatever happened to the ad advertising jacked amongst us who wanted transcripts so then machines who go in and make sure there was relevant advertising, it's all to me. This is all just dreams. No one's doing this work. No one's no one's planning

on it. Yeah, I don't see anybody waiting around for the ship people. On the well, yeah, here's something on a similar, a similar vein but slightly different. Did you read the blue sky? The latest thing like blog update post thing from the blue sky theme. If you talking to one from a couple of weeks ago or like two weeks ago. Yes. If there's something newer than three weeks ago, yeah, yeah, Dan and as like this is from like, two or three weeks ago where they're talking about their,

their latest, you know, update and what they're working on. And basically, just bring all of your activity pub and everything else that might work, and we'll jam it all in there. That's how I wrote it. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder if I can find they, I think they give it a weird website. I'm not sure if I can actually find it. But yeah, the Bluse. So, you know, blue sky was split, like a split off of Twitter. I don't think they're not part of Twitter or they. I think they're a separate company.

I'm not sure. Okay. I think they are. And their whole thing was, was when this was a brainchild of Jack Dorsey, when he was at Twitter in order to federate, Twitter, like, turn it into a federated system. Right, sort of like Mastodon, right. Actually, they are in they are independent from Twitter's development, but they are completely funded by Twitter. Okay, all right. Well, I'm sorry, a public benefit LLC. Okay, I guess they are really a separate company.

But their main donor is to it. Yeah. Yeah. That's where the resources came from. Okay. And I mean, who knows how long they'll they'll last, you know, John's Birla called them vaporware. And that's probably that's probably closer to reality than anything else. But you know, blue the, the blog, kind of, it's called the title of the blog post is called a self authenticating social protocol is from April 6, right? That's sort of what Yeah.

I think this is worth talking about. Because here's my issue with it, they make it kind of clear in this, in this post that they will not be doing activity Pope. They say that activity pub in there is not doesn't fit their model in me so that they're going to, I guess, try to roll something new. Which is fine. I mean, you know, if you want to roll something if it's better and activitypub everybody Oh, no, he's the new thing. But the part that that bothered me was this self authenticating

data and identity taught in this? This is a this is a thing where it's where does the line get crossed? So that it, you know, honey, let me come at it a different way. So there's a difference between verifying who you are authenticating who you are, and identifying who you are. Right? And this feels the way they're talking in this article. Feels a little bit too much like the second one. Identifying who you are. Yeah, I want to be they talk a whole lot about identity and how

you you can own your identity. And then you can take that from from social media to social media say okay, I'm the same person here is this this is this is the next frontier. I think you're seeing this with the a lot of the oh, what's it called? There's what's the initiative? The think ID? Yeah, it's the what did you call it? The D ID and distributed? No, I'm talking about pure governmental projects where they they want everyone to have a wallet on your phone and in the

in the order that they call it? Maybe cash? No, no you have in there as you have your passport, your driver's license your plane tickets, a little bit like what Apple already has, but they want this to all be on one platform. And of course you will use that identity to interact with the government you will use that identity pay your taxes you like to use identity to borrow you

know to watch Netflix, this is what they want. They want they I say they because I feel it's a globalist, they want to be able to to identify everybody This has always been part of the mission. You know, why? Why do we have to scan QR codes everywhere. You know, even if you just want to get a test. You have to scan the QR code. And it's it's real easy to go to cross that line between from especially when you're talking about it would be social media

that would be the thing that would want this first Yes. Once you think about it because it and you can describe it in this way. This would this is what gets all the tech people fired up and you know Hall cotton bother where they want to listen to that jingle from Dame Jennifer, they get all fired up about all the tech nerds always done this, and I've been guilty

of it too. We just want the one thing. You know, we don't, why should we have to have you know, five different services of this and this and this, I mean, it should just be one thing, we should just have no, just Roku, or just for streaming or one box, the streams everything or, or one thing, the app that does all these other things. But you know, instead of five different standards, and this will be number one, I mean that that

won't happen ever happen for other reasons. But if it did, you would find out that it the the end product is way worse. Because then you you, you're there's too much. You're talking about centralization. In once everything is centralized, especially across systems and across platforms. Now you have the, the capability to screw everything up all at once. And that can take the form of Oh, you're Yeah, you can own your

own identity with your own keys and this kind of thing. And you can use that identity to sign into Twitter, and Amazon, and your podcast host and blah, blah, blah. But you know, what, if Twitter then flags this dis cryptographic identifier that is you, your dog as as fraudulent or as something Yeah, or as problematic. Then everything's gone. Your toes so stupid, it's it doesn't matter that you own it, that's really irrelevant to the creepiness factor in the whole thing.

Looking at the namespace, I think we're in an interesting period now. And I say namespace specifically because we're talking about the tags. But overall, we're positioning that as the podcast standard. Yeah. Standards, I should say, We're in an interesting place where we have a lot of discussion about legacy of iTunes tags from the iTunes namespace, as well as and I love the conversation, I've kept my mouth shut and just watching it, how we shoehorn music into the podcast

standards. And so regarding the iTunes that we should probably talk about that first, and then talk about the music because I think we have some important decisions to make. And before we get all too deep, we should probably talk about it. But the iTunes kind of follows on from the last episode, and that is the iTunes block tag, how that's misunderstood that we have the proposed podcast index, block tag, or namespace block tag, and as well as perhaps a complete replacement dropping for every

single iTunes namespace tag. And this conversation while you were out while you weren't looking, everyone started talking about it coming up with their own ideas. Okay, so what are what am I? So what are we actually going to do? Let's see, that's what I was asked. It's right here on my sheet to talk about this iTunes tag, should we bring them all in and, you know, unmask? Or in the first question I want to ask is, if we bring in all the iTunes tags set up, you know, that way,

sort of like in one swoop? Is that legal, or were they patented or anything? Patented? Yes. Because at one point in the past, you said that Apple, like some somehow credited you and on the iTunes patent? Yeah, they Yeah, they did. How was it? I think it was some enhancements. It was literally the that's a good question. Let's see what this is. Was that pod? Could they actually patent a namespace and don't know that? Well, awesome. It's been a while since I've looked at it.

It is code and you can patent code. We know that unfortunately. Yes, here it is. They do have a patent and I shall tell you what it is. That's good. We bring this up because we have to deal with it eventually. Okay, so what a reason is not popping up apples received a granted patent that relates to podcasting. In June 2005, Apple released iTunes 4.9 with native support for podcast, Apple's invention titled techniques and systems for support. doing podcasting pertains to improve podcast

techniques that facilitate their use. Let me see if it's very general. Well, the improved techniques pertain to creating, publishing, hosting, accessing, subscribing, managing, transferring, and or playing podcasts. Good grief. But I believe that this is all related to iTunes. Let me see. That's a that's this very sparse. Well, if you're on the patent, that's what I'm looking at. Now. This is a a report about the patent. I'm

looking for the patent. I think that had to do with the with their with a one click subscribe, maybe that which will be the one that would make sense. Okay. Something we'll have to look at it's worth it's worth looking into? I don't think I mean, it's, I don't think we're in any peril of anything whatsoever. But we certainly don't have to use it, we just take it out. Well, you're not gonna get sued for taking it out. What do you mean taking it

out? If we're not using the iTunes namespace or any of their tags? No, I mean, if we, if we replicate them, so if we, if we just have to go down the list and say, Okay, here's this iTunes namespace tag, let's make a podcast namespace equivalent, one to one, to make sure that they match perfectly so that we everybody can flip from their feeds from iTunes namespace to the podcast namespace with just by changing the prefix that, you know that some could, you know, the question is, is like, is it

patented? And if it is, is your name on the patent, which would give us the ability to do it, to use it in some way? These are, these are questions that I have because you know, that's and he's that's a very fair question. Huh? Hmm. I mean, we've already we've already done some of them. Yeah. No, you got me on that one. Because I've completely forgotten about that. And we forgotten about it. Yeah. How do we how do we get an answer to I am quite certain there are enough people within the

community who will be able to figure this out for us. So once we have that figured out, and let's say that we can do it. Yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it. He's back ladies and gentlemen. Let's do exactly. Now let's get over to the to the music thing. First of all I completely did not understand was my head was in podcasting. My head was in bad experiences with POD show me vo about playlists. And this was this as a namespace tag proposed by Alex gates. And he texted me you know, many people were

posting about it. This is really something that would work very well for playlist of songs. Were you were you kidding about the playlist with the remote Yeah, you will remote item right? You can include an item which I believe if you do it with the item it would even it should if if item level tags exist it should do value for value that will copy that right over correct. And yeah, if that goes into the spec Yeah, right.

So I like this of course I like the question I have is we have no APR on the wolf and we have couple other people doing music projects. You know, there's people trying to figure out do I do one feed for my whole album Do I just do and I don't know if there's any right or wrong answer. I don't think there's any wrong answer. Do I do in Spanish lessons banned the first value for value have been music podcasts right right was banned. Now he's a cripple grip.

So now we're talking about putting like album information in a in a very specifically named podcast namespace tag. Is this a good idea? Does it become confusing? Is there some hybrid we need to come up with when it comes to music? Or are the names wrong? You know what I mean? It's really weird to have some talk about an episode and that's where I'm putting track. You know, under the hood, it makes no difference. Well, that comes into the mystery. That's where the medium

tag comes in. Because when it that was the whole idea of the medium tag is when you when you identify this podcast, with a particular medium, and all the terminology can change. Oh, Really? Yes. If you say this is medium music, yeah, or me, then everything, then they're no longer episodes. They're their tracks. Oh, good. Okay, so here's an example, Mitch posted. I was chatting with Alex about this. He thinks that podcast network tag, aka

podcast channel tag will be a good fit for music artist. See, I totally disagree. It may be the right spot in the feed. But this is confusing for people. In what way tell me the confusion if I'm an artist, and I have to, and I and I presumably am going to have to figure out how to put together my feed for however I'm going to use it. I want to see if it's music artists, why isn't the tag called music artist? Why is the tag podcast channel you understand what I'm saying?

Or the podcasts net, the channel slash network tag is for aggregating multiple podcasts into a single into a single sort of virtual network of shows. So it's like, it's a way to identify this feed is part of a broader fee is a broader Am I trying to say is if let's just say there's a channel identifier, and the channel identifier is I'm just making this up. This is not the spec. But there's a channel ID and the channel ID is you know, 12345 and 17. RSS feeds have a channel

identifier of 12345. All seven of those three of those podcast feeds would logically be seen as, as a pod as a network of feeds, or a channel of feeds. And that channel of feeds could be the Doobie Brothers. So the Doobie Brothers could be 12345. And then each album within there has that identifier, and it's showing that it's part part part of the series. Catalog got the Doobie Brothers? I'm just

talking purely about the words, is it confusing? To use all podcast specific terminology when people are using music for the feed specifically, I may be off on this, it may not make any difference people. For instance, by April Kirby have been looking into the person tag, we use band name as person with role equals band set in the feed level. Which I which I don't think that's his band, even an option. He's just putting that in.

Probably, I don't know what had the taxonomies big and have to look no further than the head. But the bottom line is the minute you have the medium tag, and it says music, then technically, all these tags would be would make sense. Yes, that's because when you when you bring in the medium tag, what you're doing is you're applying sort of a logical layer on top of the feed that changes things about the feed. So you

can imagine it as like a is like a filter. And so every everywhere that something like the term episode existed now it it's track everywhere that that per, you know, person existed now it's in a musician or whatever, you know, and it's now no longer you know, Episode art, its album art, these all these things become different, just by virtue of having the different medium in there because you're, you're saying that you're saying that dislike okay, it helps to understand, it helps to

understand by knowing that the default medium is podcast, the default medium type is podcast. So then if you change it to, to the medium to let's say film, now that that episode is you know is a maybe you have one episode there that's a trailer

in the next episode is the is the feature film. You're not talking you're no longer talking about episodes and podcasters you're talking about this other thing, you know what I'm just saying, you know, when I think I'm hung up on I'm hung up on how how musicians are going to because if we let it go, musicians are going to get on, you know, any hosting company that that has at least enough of the tax compatible is going to create their albums in an I think in a

crippled way versus if we have some really, you know what, how are musicians the average musician is wants to create an owl Problem with value for value. They're going to have to go somewhere. And I don't think the existing hosting companies will make it broad enough for most music musicians to make

that switch in their head. Okay, it's a podcast, but now I'm using these these things for my album title, you know, I'm saying it's like, that's such, it's easy for us, because we understand the tags, we understand how it works, but a musician is gonna go. Yeah, I see. Yeah, yeah, to me, maybe it's more the UX and UI of the feed creation I'm looking at used to even be that an artist needs to go there. It needs to be really simple, like, okay, you know, I'm dragging these

tracks in or whatever it is. And this is, and this is the, the order I want them in. And here's the art. And here's all the other things. And then there's other choices like, is it my, do I just do a bunch of songs all my life long and it's one feed? Or is it I mean, that those are all different things. But the feed creation, if we keep going this way, I think we're going to hurt ourselves. Because there'll be a lot of musicians who don't understand how an album and tracks fit into a podcast.

This is all UI. It just feels like it's all UI, because you can logically see how it how it works. But yes, of course, if you don't present Yeah. In the right way. It's a confusing, it's a confusing mess. Yeah, no, I guess it's a good thing that you brought that up, because it could very easily become this Gordian knot of, you know, impenetrable language. Right. And I like the exploring that we're figuring out what, what, what tags work best for which, which comparable piece of

information of, of music metadata? Well, there you go, Steven B. Create that, will you build it already? Yeah, well, I mean, so I mean, this level of view is hard. Because yes, just one master switch where you say, Okay, this

is not a podcast anymore. Now, this is an audio book. And now these are not tracks, they're chapters, is like, feels to me, like there's got to be some this, we're overlooking something, or there's something we should probably I don't know, I've done this before I've there, there have, I have production software that does something similar to this, you

can change you, you change a parameter. And everything in the entire URL, UI changes, changes its text, from one thing to another, have got actually two products that do this, projects that do this. And it's not, it's not super hard. It's just that you have to, you got to take the time to code it in, you got to do it carefully. So that you've, you're not screwing things up, maybe it is doable, it's not the end of the world.

I think it's low hanging fruit is what I'm maybe what I'm saying it's this, let's see to let's do this, because the musicians are showing up, they want to use it, they like they've already figured out, Hey, I could do this with you know, each podcast could be a song and I could possibly get some value for the value I've put into my work. So they're figuring it out. They're showing up they want to do it. And I just see people struggling because I guess you're gonna

have to create your feed manually, or I'm not sure. And there's all kinds of pros and cons. I think when you're if you're doing a 12 track album, you probably can look at a very simple self hosting solution versus you know, a hosting company. Yeah, cuz that way Yeah. And that way you're not because you're just doing a one on one and done. Just every so often. You're not, that's it's hard to just find maybe monthly payment for that forever. And you could just self host it. Yeah, there

was something like sovereign fades. Yeah. Yeah, I can see that. And then you you see that UI in your head and it's like, okay, there's a there's a drop down box and what type of thing Yeah. Yeah, book. Yeah, just like we have for the eight sovereign sovereign feet. You know, the live item every everything changes. Now, there's some live things I got to fill out. Yeah, that's, that's kind of cool. And it also the presence of that flip down, that drop down, shows people that they can

do other things. Oh, cool. I can I didn't know I can make a good point album. Yeah, good point. Good point discovery. And I gotta say, sovereign feeds is becoming a good piece of kit. I've been using it for months. I've been using it for months and you know, and it's never really failed, but it's Steven keeps refining the UI and there's little things he changes you know, just the, the beautiful things like this is automatically copy you know, that's there or that is just

almost everything except incrementing. Which I, which I don't want, by the way. Just another piece of low hanging fruit that I've been having a back and forth was roofie about Rofi of caste coverage.com. Oh, Ria roof roof. Roof roof. Yeah. He, like others. He said, Hey, I really I it resonated with me that 40% of women according to a survey, listen to podcasts on the website. And he said, What is it an idea for the podcast

apps to offer? Ready to go websites to podcasters. And the way we were kind of going back and forth, it's like, well, I could choose a curio caster website, a cast calm coverage website. And these would all be in all and all they're doing is they're pulling in pulling in the feed, of course, you know, there's, I think I made one of these, what's that there's a couple of different different outfits like that where they

pull in your feed, and they make make a website for you. And then they give you a whole bunch of buttons for Google and Apple and Spotify. Language, which you can't get rid of, you know, as they I don't want these two, there's not the right night, the right customization, but they have nice design. And right there could be built Hey, you're you're listening to the podcast, would you like to support it,

click here. I mean, that is, in essence, what the web app, web apps are on on desktop, but also on mobile, is that got everything all there, except instead of showing episodes, and, and your subscriptions, that should be a click of the button when you've drawn people in. But it shouldn't be I should have a beautiful homepage, I want to send people to what I want them to look at, I want to send episode pages. And from there, depending on how good the the website is, and the ad the

app that provides it. And that's where you want to entice people to start using that app. Which clearly they're already doing. It's just except it's a web page. So I'd love to have an I tried to share all the time with a curio caster or a dump pod verse or pod friend, but it'd be great if what I'm sending him to He's actually my homepage and I could map my URL to it. Oh, and by the way, take an extra an extra percentage from from the

split here. I'll put it right in for you. That's cool. Thank you for the homepage. Low hanging fruit. Yeah, and we could put that week if it was done in a standardized

way I'm not sure what that would be to think through it. But if it was done in a standard standardized sort of templated way we could link to those things from from the pod cast index I'm sure and he could just pop this oh hey I want I want to see my curio caster page and then you go over there and I mean literally what would Ruthie was saying is you know right now we have you know for for each item there's obviously a link tag you know which which would be an episode page but it

would be an episode page on a nice website that reflects my my podcast my branding you know whatever it is but also the cast coverage branding or you know the pod friend it's all Yeah, it's a balance but I can see it's again 40% of women according to a survey listen not on an app but listen to it on a website that click and a player Come on this is like this is what we this is where you want to be the Episode Episode guid would be or the episode URL I mean there's all different ways

to do it. But for it let's work let's work it out on the Macedon and then we'll and then we'll like build standard out of it. I like it I like this and by the way I would use it. I have I have a couple of shows. I would love to have like mo facts I think we can do a lot better with a with a podcast website

Korean the keeper. G How about podcasting? 2.0 we have exactly zero homepage we do not have an archive page we don't have nothing we have an OPML outline we do have that yes I was very sexy outline though. Yeah, yeah, no kidding. Did you upgrade freedom controller me one someone posted something on like questions like that because to me something changed and I didn't know someone posted something and said freedom controllers upgraded from forget which version it was. And it looking in your feet.

No, no, no, it's I was it was a poll. Most men and what me? I don't know what that was. I'd be interesting. I'm curious to know what it was though. I'll have to go and look for it. I was thinking to myself man Davies incredible man, he's got three seconds of downtime in between now you're scraping his kid off the pavement. Update the freedom controller. The hospital delivered the food 15 minutes to push a Docker image. Okay, we want to thank some people.

Yes, right off the bat. We need to thank an incredible patron of many value for value projects who sent us in his traditional manner in all cash which means it's always very freaky to see the show up and showed up on my PO Box. I'm talking about the patron saint sister anonymous of Dogpatch and lower Slobo via Oh we got some sir anonymous love on this show $4,000 in cash in cash shot caller 20 is blades on Ambala he says no. He says no no, but now he always sends cash when he

sends a donations because he's completely anonymous. We know a little bit about him but not really. And it just showed up in the envelope and it says For podcast index that's all it said and so I I have his email and I say yeah, I got a man blown away by this did you have anything to say or can we credit you said no you can credit unusual but you know it's just it's what the index is. This is important he said this is important what

you're doing so yeah, holy cow. It would have been even more impressive you if you sent it as a boost but okay never escaped criticism. So we'll give them a big guy. Man, my son is direct motorcycle every week. Amazing. This is really appreciated this this goes right into the emergency fund this this goes into our sky we're very I mean, I could not be more over the moon about this. Thank you so much. Toronto, Mr. Dogpatch and lower Slovenia. Yeah, isn't that nice?

Yeah, I'm a little bit speechless to be honest. But yet imagine imagine I come home from the PA there's always fun stuff when I come back from the PIO box and you never know what's in it. Does this challenge coin stickers, Bibles, food edibles, edibles other other unmentionables ammo people send the crazy stuff. And there's this thick envelope and you know teenagers we love opening this stuff together we

do it right there on the on the kitchen on the island. You know, we we cook and it's we got all the boxes like Christmas like Christmas. Look at all these cool things people say. And then she says what is this? wad of hundreds? Like I don't know, but handed out give it Give it here. I'll take it out. Now she right away when she was dusting for prints during the UV light. I'm going to find out who this guy is. Thank you Esther Onra. So Dogpatch Marshall govia. This incredibly

appreciated. It's one of those dubious sources were funded by dubious sources named unnamed sources. Yes. to the chagrin of the Brookings Institute, we have dubious sources and we also have non dubious sources. Marco Arment $500 This is a week this is the week we don't do a show, right? Get the biggest donations ever. It's it's funny, it's sometimes it's like that is really weird.

Yes. Well Marco, of course is a monthly contributor. And and this is this is our ongoing support that he is he's dedicated and it just keeps going to really appreciate it Marco Yeah, and cuz because I always worry you know, when we have to skip a show because people people are supporting the index and the project that they're also supporting the show and we end the show is is partially not just where we have the board meeting best way to give you know give a product of value and it's

where we ask is where we thank you where we show the value and where we ask for value in return is critical critical so I always worry when we miss a week because I'm like yeah, you know we get I mean I want people to hear the product and hear everything that's happening and all that kind of stuff but man this was fantastic. I hope that doesn't mean that we did they enjoy it better when we don't when we don't produce the show. No no no What did what this means is the next episode will

have almost no donation nothing. And then you know, that'll last a few weeks that we roll out the sad puppy and we're back on track. It always evens and it always evens out in the end. But what's beautiful to see is the value people attached to the project and what we're doing. Thank you Mark Mike Dell from blueberry gave us $22.22 For through PayPal Yeah, thank you might get a give me give me some popping love mike so I can I can pivot

with this Fiat ducks. Yeah somebody named Scott niznik Does Nick isn't it isn't it give us $1 through Pay Pal one time donation Thank you we'll take it as we get this Graham's histogram pulled up here my favorite I got mad I should have had this one lined up alright there's nothing like kicking off the booster ramp segment with a little bit of love that Paul Stanley boosts 3333 sets from now this goes way back I

mean because we missed it we missed a week. Yeah, this goes way back to April the 10th 3333 stats through fountain from signs of new growth, the podcast Did you listen to signs of new growth? I want to say I have a wife who was a music podcast it's it's basically a rolling album of tracks. I know I know this because signs of new growth is the handle on on the Macedon. That's why I've seen the postings from signs of new growth. Yeah, I got some good tunes on these. Listen. Yeah, cool. Okay.

Yeah. 3333 This is Dave Jones tech support feed refreshed boost. It's been so long ago. I don't even know what I did. Alright, keep doing it. It's working. Keep doing it. Yes. Middle Aged dev gave us 500 SAS through fountaining. He says go server upgrades. By the way. Speaking of server upgrades, the aggregator rollout is finished. Congratulations. We dropped our we dropped our monthly outlay on the aggregators from $175 to $45. Ooh, nice. Yep, that's a part. That's a huge savings.

Yep, we saved 130 bucks. And so the about about 40 of that will go back into a couple of more aggregators. And then the rest of it will go into upgrade the database to bigger via beautiful web. And by the way, huge thank you to McIntosh on Mastodon, who has been helping me to tweak our we use MySQL he's been helping me tweak our MySQL server settings pool and he's been given me a lot of help with what his recommended he's a he's a guru and he's been given me a lot of help on which configuration

variables to use for our particular setup. So I'm going to do I'm going to roll out his changes that he recommended when I do the server upgrade probably in May. So it's going to be her it Yeah, I really appreciate him he just privately D and means like, hey, let's get this thing. Let's get this thing in shape. Thank you for that value Macintosh. So sir dug through

fountain gives 4400 SATs and he says Welcome back. You see, we got 3333 again from saizen New Growth thank you so as new growth and we got a 20 to 22 Row ducks from jaunty ms through breeze and he says, listening to MIT OpenCourseWare cryptocurrency engineering and design taught by the co author of the lightning white paper. Yeah, okay. Well, yeah. All right. All right. This is euro dogs. He boosted that to us, but I wonder what that's well, maybe we got Putting the value block

somewhere. Yeah, maybe that's really jarring when when I'm looking at heli pad, and all of a sudden, like, something shows up for a whole different podcast. Yeah. Went to us. It was to us for the case of 81. Okay, but I have seen this one when we're put into, into someone's value block and it shows on the podcast like, well, what is this doing here? Oh, we must have put it in the split. Okay. Cool. We wouldn't mind seeing more of that. Yeah,

that would be that'd be a welcome change. Auburn citadel. Give us 49,000 SATs. Whoa. And through fountain any says Public Service Announcement stay up to date on your boosts? Boost. Nice. Thank you. I agree. That is very, very public service announcement. Karen from mere mortals podcast. Through pod friend gave us 3210 SATs and he says I used to manually screenshot copy and upload booster grant comments into my chapter images for a

while until it became too tedious. I would 100% use an automated version of this great idea Adam. All right. This was the idea to have boosted grams automatically generate the chapter JSON outdated as you go along. Yeah, I would I would use that in some instances, some instances. I'm sure Dred Scott would too because it would give him more tools in his Swiss Army Knife toolbox. There's so much that can be done with with chapters.

Caspe eland gave us 33 sets and he says, I hate listening live week. Caspian again 330 SAS and he says, about the aggregator nodes. How about decentralized? I got some spare V VPU clicks on my end many ways. That's something we've talked about before I remember that. And it is something I'm still very willing to do. We backed

off from it, because there's a danger there. If you don't design it mean like perfectly, is the danger of just basically becoming a huge DDoS machine on podcast hosting companies. Yeah, well, this is also from that, I think stemmed the whole pod picking development. So ultimately, everyone will be using pod ping. Right. Yep. Right. Exactly. And we're seeing it roll out. It's, it's

marching forward. I love it. I mean, I said, I think I said towards, I think I said a couple months ago, or maybe a month ago that I really think that we're going to be pushing 400,000 podcast feeds, using pod paying by the end of the year. Oh, I think that's more than feasible. Close to half a million feeds. And I think at that point, it just becomes at that moment at that point. Yeah, at that point. You also have most of the active podcast probably.

Yeah, yeah. All you really honestly, all you really need is probably the top and I'm not including anchor and I mean, obviously blah, blah. But you know, as far as the paid hosts go, really only all you need is maybe the top 10 And you have covered you've covered almost everything that's a routinely update frequently update. We need a promotion team at Podcast Movement in August in Dallas. Yeah. A pod ping promotion team. pppd. Yes, thank you. And I'm not quite sure exactly what they do. I do

know what the goal is. But would they need some? Just laughing because this is creating teams for things that we don't understand. Well, you know, one of my favorite marketing promotions of all time very successful in all of the marketing books is I want my MTV Yeah, you like that? So I want my pod ping but that sounds shit. So we got to come up with something better but you know,

ping me, maybe ping me. Okay, well, to be worked on, but in general, I would say pod ping is a big one to talk about it at Podcast Movement. We're gonna have a presence this year. We're going to be there we're going to be in full force. Oh heck yeah me kicking ass and taking names and anyone out of the building until the 2.0 compliant and pod ping or wall ping and ask not kicking ass pinging pinging pinging as in

writing into the blockchain. Cast peatland again 2937 He says thanks for the work in Felton Thank you boost boost boost. We'll see if 5050 says for Macintosh. Speak of the devil. He says thanks guys Note to self put Kate SATs in wallet. What does that mean Kate to set k i t. I have no idea what he's talking about. No idea. You know what that means? send another donation next week. Satoshi stream 5552 says through fountain and he says to podcast app developers the bolt for the V for V to V

metadata has not been changed since January. Now's a good time to implement boosts and streaming sets. It's not a moving target. It's stable. Good point. Excellent point Satoshi streams yeah right arm pirate pioneers by the way pioneers in the industry pioneers of the TLV record they still kill me because essentially stream just came out of nowhere like day one. Like oh, what I mean, that was just amazing. Isn't it isn't Dutch guys who run on that? Yeah, yeah. The Dutch man. I tell you,

we keep calling Satoshi stream. God Dutch guys like it's a team. It's probably just one dude. I mean, like, or it could be a chick like one day that one. First of all, shame on you Dave Jones for saying a chick with this. As in dude. Yeah, you said one guy, guy. Oh, I thought I said dude, shakes guys and gals so well, we need to have the Satoshi stream team, the stream team need to have him on the show. The stream team. This is an outrage. We haven't had the stream team on the show. Yeah. Why

have we done that? Okay, I don't know. You're in charge of booking guests. I'm honest. is biased. You hate Dutch people? I guess? I did. Well, I mean, just just a few. Only hate the only hate only hate pureblood. It's your medulla. Okay. Dred Scott 25,333 sets. I should cast thematic is not a chick. I know this. Through good authority. transcripts. Regarding transcripts, I have a condition called auditory processing disorder. APD. There are many times I need the transcripts to

help me process what I'm hearing. They're very helpful. I always, I also always watch TV with captions on. Oh, okay. That's interesting. Add chapter images to transcripts, and my brain is fully engaged in the podcast. Thanks, everyone. Thanks, everyone, for incorporating transcripts. Auditory Processing Disorder is it's not new, but it has

increased significantly in the past five or 10. Five years, we've done a lot of research on this for the no agenda show is I noticed that many people of millennial age use captions are all the time on any video. They're watching movies, TV shows, even YouTube videos. And I started questioning this. And one of the or the main issue is because of a number of reasons, mainly distraction, people no longer comprehending as well as

it's kind of a brain. So I don't want to categorize anything drag mine have is I have no, no business categorizing it, but it is a real thing. And your brain is not processing as well as it possibly could. And I have a hearing. I'm a victim of hearing disability, I gotta say, right. And even though I have hearing aids, I find that the mix typically done on many movies today are done for 5.1 Dolby, or, you know, some kind of home theater setup they in you know, so I'm missing the middle

channel. And even Tina who has perfect hearing, he's like, let's just turn on the captions is just so it's just that much easier. Okay, so that's, I think a lot of people benefit from that. And the thing that I I still don't understand why I'm the only one ever talking about it is so we're talking about um, yeah, the you mentioned my son driving off in his motorcycle,

you know, a long time ago on the show. This is something that is completely searchable in a transcript and you click on the link the timecode and it starts playing right from that link. This is a very valuable research accessory, extremely valuable that would enable the Brookings Institute to write articles much faster. They could even automate it with some AI would you say that you are not a victim of auditory auditory problems you are a person experiencing sound lessness Correct.

Thank you see, lood gave us 10 sets and he says forgive me for the meager set donation pot father and pots age. But I would like to offer my services in recording any of the white papers, facts or blog posts in audio form as a time donation you can reach me at email if you'd like to Grace me with this great honor go podcasting Wait a minute go podcast. Is he suggesting that the exact opposite what we're just talking about? It will be creating audio out of documentation and papers we've written

that I think he's he's suggesting exactly that. We're all in on that man. Go for it. Yeah, I'm great. Here do this. See lewd? Every time I post a blog post, which I plan to post many more on a more frequent basis when my son's not trying to kill himself. When when I do that, just record it and send it to me and then I'll put it on the substack little podcast. There you go. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for that offer. Let's see who we got. Oh, Roy, from breeze 54,321 SATs.

Yeah, how you doing booster nice. He says bitcoin is the real fucking money. But but he's not done. Oh, okay. Has he in another 54,301 Holy press. Oh, man. Don't just stand there. Boost. And he says I love Adam. It was Two together is almost a buzzer baller boost that's your right all right shot caller 20 is blades on I am Paula. That's such a good time hanging out with him for the short time it was at the Bitcoin Conference.

When you get ready to come off to come off the pocket with 108,000 SATs you do it you better be proud of yourself. Well remember he says he loves me. That's right. And he knows and he knows no love money back so he knows. Thank you. Love go up 1611 SATs, another from see lewd. He says Wait, let's see say greetings but father and pause stage my last Mr. Graham shouldn't have gone through so I'll send this one. Wait. So is he rescinding his offer?

I don't know. There's no take backs and booster grams. No take back seat. I'll be happy to record in audio form whatever manifesto white paper or blog post you'd like promoted to the podcasting standards. manifestos we don't have enough men if I'm writing the man, if I'm reading the manifesto, I'm writing the value for value manifesto. Oh, that's right. Yeah, we don't. It's got to be called that value for value. Festo, of course, by Adam Clarke.

Gotta have the three names in there to make sure they know that. It's time to get me. Yeah, that way when you run off in the woods in North Carolina, they can we can properly find you. Right. That's right. Nomad, Joe 2000 says through fountain and he says boosted boosted and D fat streams. Thank you.

Brian of London Sir Brian of London and the hive Dao through the value for value app Rube Goldberg machine he says weekly $10 V for V donation converted to SAS from Brian of London and the hive DHF da o go podcast. Podcast. Not Did I understand that Brian? Is is out of the country on vacation for a week. What he's doing now he's sailing a boat. Right? He isn't he sailing a boat back from somewhere like, like a yacht boat? Like a like a proper boat?

Oh, I don't know. But I hope so. Because that's really cool. I think he's done it before. But what was interesting is I saw him making all these preparations. Because that's right, his Rube Goldberg machine. I'm taking I'm taking bets right now. I give this thing 48 hours. Right, Scott? I know this because this is Adam. Brian is Brian is Adam with coding skills. I know that this is 48 hours. The thing's gonna shit the best. He's gonna have his parents rebooting his laptop.

He's not even to the marina and it's cray cray. Love you, Brian. Yes, absolutely. Chris. This is Chris from Jupiter broadcasting. Chris Fisher gave us 2000 SATs a fountain. He says Adam great job spreading the podcast and 2.0 message on the what Bitcoin did show one of your more concise and compelling summaries yet I clipped it to help others spread the word and he has the link here. He says PS Dave rocks.

Thanks. That was good. That's Peter Peter McCormick. What big Bitcoin did I really enjoy Peter because we have very different political views, very different views on on medical, health, etc. But it for my money typical Bitcoin or fashion, we have a common understanding a common common interest common in a way common life view even though we come from very different perspectives, and it's always so enjoyable to speak with him whether we're recording or not. I would almost call it a consensus.

I call just being human civil civility is what I call it, you know, catching but I was looking at the tweets, comments in between most of them. When he posted the show. Most of them were positive. But then one of them was like, This guy says crazy stuff. I can't believe Peter didn't push back and like push back. But that's the point. You don't have to argue with everybody. He said no, I don't agree with that. Okay, done.

Did you point them to your new cattle in the enterprise? Like my cattle enterprise? Yeah, you remember that lady from Vice or whatever, not vice but the delay that read the article from Daily Beast said that you were pimping your Cattle Company? Oh, yeah. That's right. Someone posted it was a review of of Bitcoin 22 days Adam curry pimping his new cattle, his new cattle venture? No. The one that said that everybody in the Bitcoin world are crazy psychopaths that want to kill each other.

Yeah, that's the Yeah, that's the one that's the article. Yeah. US, Scott SC OTT gave us 20,420 SATs to be a breeze, thank you. And he says, I missed a couple of weeks of boosting, I'm tried to send through the fountain app twice now and it failed.

You know, when, when this happens, if you get a fail, it will be really helpful if you post out if you're emailing it, what app you use, and what exactly failed, maybe you can make a screenshot if it was all payment, one payment, it would be handy to have a little more info on that. Would it be fair to say that a lot of times it's your node that's failing because it tends to go up and down, I would say there's a high correlation between fails. And

and mind, which is really just a monitor node. You know, it's, it's a 1%. And it's a piece of crap. To this piece of crap. It's it's a surface laptop that has Ubuntu on it, fresh, complete native install with an external, one terabyte drive, and I'm running Umbral on it. And interestingly enough torch and yes, and interestingly enough, it I was able to reproduce when it craps out. First of all, I have to be out

of town or out of the country. That's, that's the only way he can reproduce it crashing out with no possibility of SSH in because it's just locked up. When troubleshooting very difficult when the software update clicks, it would pop open the Software Update dialog box. And that would always break it. So I just disabled that thing from checking and alerting. And we'll see how well it does. Yeah, it was I don't know why it did that. But you know, it's also I know, I'm bad, but it's also

connected through Wi Fi not through Ethernet. So it's it's really beneath me to have this gear running. In fact, I have no business criticizing Brian. The the computer only crashes when you're out of powers when the power is on. So just the delimiter comic strip blogger Ooh, already three sets Yeah, cast ematic he says Howdy, David. Adam, I wish you Happy Easter and your listeners are warmly invited to hear voice of cherub as DC girl calls him.

Gregory William Forsythe Foreman from Kent and a podcast about artificial intelligence AI dot cooking. Stay safe with Jesus yo. Okay. Thanks CSB report man how? Commerce your blogger how's the show doing? Stats? Is that thing value for value? I don't I don't even remember ever checking that actually. Oh, no, no, no, we need we need an update. I would like to know how it's going with the show. I mean, is this blatant promotion you do on every podcast that I know about?

Is it working? Yeah. Are we driving traffic to or are we helping grow your show? Grow your show? Monthly contributors? Get a lot of them because it's two weeks worth here. We got Keith Gibson $50 Thank you, Keith. Longtime. Thank you. Yeah, longtime supporter, Dwayne Goldy, another longtime supporter $8. Paul air skin $11.14 always this the fun with that adds up to something at the end of the year that I

don't remember. Michael Gagan $5 Charles current $5 savaria Vash $5 David Wood would find $3 Timothy Hudgins my buddy $25 Jeremy Garrett's $5 Paul Saltzman $22.22 roadex Paul Paul has been supporting this from day one. He has he's, I've known I think I've known him for 30 years. Really? Yeah, it's been that long. Yeah. Damon Castle, Jack $15 Derek Vickery. This $21 David Norman $25 Thank you,

David. Jeremy, Kevin, all $10 Jeffrey Rutherford $5 Chris Cowan $5 Alice gates, sir Alice gates $25 Carrie Keller, $5 CR and Miller $5. And Thomas Sullivan, Jr. $5. What a beautiful group. Thank you all very much for supporting podcasting. 2.0 the entire project following the rules of the good Brookings Institution, we are very transparent about what's coming from where, and we're proud of that. And we're

proud we're proud of it. And where it's going as well, I mean, this is this goes straight into liquidity on by the way, I did drop the fees on podcast index. Now cool. We no longer have the, the 10 million Satoshi slashers. So, so the it's succeeded. It's slow that download, I still have it quite high compared to many out of the box. So we're at 0.01% with with a zero base fee. And that seems to everything seems to be

reasonably balanced, although we also did have. And this is a known lightning lnd bug, which has just been there ever since I've been looking at it, you get spontaneous channel closures. And when Alan pay closes, now, which happened everything break, actually it was it was between I think it was we have a channel with the fountain, sis, they have a private LM pay system.

And we have a channel with them that one closed. And so even though there's other routes when something like that happens, the whole network has to kind of reconfigure and routes have to be recalculated, graphs have to be updated. So especially a big channel like that, because we have I think 10 million SATs with the with LM pay. I can always tell when something like that happens, because all sudden payments still go through a lot of times, but they get real slow.

Yes, my house actually tilted. I always know when the big channels closed. Whoa. Whoa, it was that. And again, you know, I'm very excited about all the developments we're learning voltage with the solution was a little undefined, although they do have some good marketing out there on the on the website. And of course, the the C lightning or the calling is a calling it core lightning now or at core, or C or they call it CLN. Things are calling CLN CLN. Yeah. With you know, with the basically

spin it up, you're good to go. And you own the keys. Now, of course cloud stuff can go down can be destroyed, but you have the keys. So that's the beauty. Kevin rook on his show where he interviewed Lisa. Nick nylgut, Nick Africa, don't pronounce her last name. Maybe she's one of the core developers on the core. Oh, yeah. I did hear that. Yes. Oh, yeah. You sent that to me. Fantastic interview. It was really good. She, but the only problem is, yeah, she's one of these who say a lot of etc. And

right. But I was able to listen through it. Me too. I did. I forced my way through it. And it was really she has very good information, a lot of a lot of sort of inside insight into what's going on with the different lightning implementations and why they do what they do. Especially, she has some interesting things to say about lightning labs. Yes, yes. Yeah. And I want to tell her because that sounded harsh what I just said, but I've done this with my

podcast partners. Certain Jhansi Dvorak, we call each other on the air for it, because it's very easy to slip into these things. And you wind up saying real and it's stopwords you know, stuff, the stuff you think about? It's contagious. So if she would listen to her use of certain words, she would be more conscious of it and would be better because she has great information. It's just at a certain point, calm I think we

texted like, oh my god, I have to get past this part. Yeah, was really good, though. I do it too. And um, I hear myself as well. The reason why I listened back to the show to our episodes is because I found out last week that I did I used the phrase, all that jazz about 20 times over over shows. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, that one's gonna stop. It's interesting.

I didn't catch it. So it didn't know honestly interesting. But the divorce recognize stuff like ya know, in my opinion, I think fact of the matter day at the end of the day, all of this stuff Yeah. So we get better we get better as we go along. But yeah, that's a Kevin Brooks show was pretty popular. It's really good. And he's got good he's got good information on there. I think he lets people talk. It's it's a top notch show. Give it a listen.

That and Linux unplugged is kind of my new jam. I got sucked into it because they're doing a lot of booster grams. And then I'm listening to it. I got to ask those guys a question. I should boost it to him. Well, Chris listens to you should listen. You can ask it right now. Well, they're always testing out new Linux installs. That's a lot of what they do or Linux upgrades and distros and I'm wondering, does anyone have it? So I have I am running Linux

Mint. as my daily driver now if I wanted to migrate, I'd be in trouble. I mean, I have stuff installed I should have some PHP version. What are these guys do they have one laptop is really their laptop and they use and they don't mess with it and they

have another Junker that they change all the time. Or is there a simple way to move your environment over in the in the in the Linux environment where you move a lot of stuff over or just wind up reinstalling everything a lot of it is included Allah Allah let them and change the data files. Yeah, and then add files in your home directory. So you can you can bring it over like Mutt and Stuff like that. Oh, yeah. That my bash profile mutt? Yeah, that that part always works. But

it's, it's always the the things that Nevermind, it's me. I'm a hack. I'll put this in slash user slash s bin. I move this over here that talks to this pa Yeah. Not to me as me. Okay. Now this stuff. Sorry. All right. I got I'm up against a deadline, gotta medication deadline. Just wanted to well, maybe these for the next show. maps.fm These guys are back on the radar. We need

to figure out how we Yeah, they sent an email. Okay, we need to figure out how we incorporate them because I'm feeling like we're missing a huge opportunity mapping not in geolocation, not really my my forte, but I have it on the list. Talk about it next next week. And then Oh, yeah. Focus right days coming out with a podcast on one box. After Gosh, how many do we have now? Three. I've tested three or four.

Yeah, we're still waiting for the for the the namesake. We're still waiting for your namesake. Yes. Good luck with that. That's a long way off. Dave Jackson is the guy who's he's Dave Jackson School of Paki sending this over to me. He's like, Yeah, you go talk to Adam. You got a new box coming out to the market and Guy contacts me. He's like, hey, you know, are you interested in this? I send you one, you can test it out. And I'm now you know, why don't you send me the

specs. So I can see I don't want to waste your time. And then they send over an NDA. And it's like, oh, and I'm like, man. And so and I was about to kind of say, Ahmed, I there's too much in here without prejudice and all these terms. I'm not quite sure I don't want to get it. I don't want you to be in trouble. I don't want to be in trouble. And then he sends me the top level specs and there it is. loopback devices. So I said, Oh man, I appreciate it. Now you don't have to send me anything

because this is for gamers. This was not developed for podcasters if you ever want some free advice, I'd be happy to talk to anybody. That's that's the new term that we learned from our mutual friend. Don't send me the NDA send me the friend da friend. Exactly. All right, I'm off to to New York but I'll be back for for the next board meeting. And it travels brother thank you man

and give your son a big hug when we're all praying for him. We know we know he's out of the woods but still you know it's a it's a rehabilitation is going to suck ass. No, it's going to be terrible but he can't get away from me now I got full control over and that and give him some flying lessons. Keep them off of all two wheel. It's much safer, much safer to take flying lessons. Alright brother Good to have you back man. So happy everything's

okay. And Imola. We'll be talking next week. Have a great weekend. Don't miss a safe travels. Everybody there in podcast development land. Thank you very much for attending the board meeting. We'll be back next week right here podcasting 2.0. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org For more information