Episode 80: Wheels Up

podcasting 2.0 For April 1 2020 to Episode 79 We got wheels up throw in some aviation terminology and make it interesting. Hello everybody, welcome to the official board meeting of podcasting. 2.0 everything happening at podcast index.org the podcast namespace and of course everything that goes on all the creative goo and juices podcasts index dot

social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and an Alabama if you want to talk regex he's your man my friend on the other end ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones, or glass glass is also something I can talk about the glass. Did I miss his glass yet another database search organization function? No, it's the thing. It's like something. Yes, it is that yes. Yeah. But it's also the thing that attracts children for miles

around a broken glass. Whenever you drop something on the ground and are on the floor, and it shatters into a million tiny little feet slicing fragments Yeah, it just somehow attracts

children they love it they run and want to look at it. And that's the you know the thing as a as a parent you don't want to happen is immediately what happens it's like it's like zombies and brains you know brains out there the zombies just flocked to it you know it's a metaphor for something I'm missing is there so what happened is I left the house today. Oh my goodness. Oh, what happened? On my way out I walked through the living room I started the

cat get startled. The cat bales off the off the dining room table knocks the this candle off with this with the glass base shatters all over the ground will then my 11 year old job you know jumps up runs around the table and Amelie wants to see it. Yay cool glass. what always happens every parent knows this you just want to you want your kids to come in your little kids come in a room though. glass on the floor. Yeah. Ah so this is a an extraordinary board

meeting. As by the time this is heard I'll probably be on an airplane somewhere you will be back into tax season and I really appreciate you taking the time because I know it's been must be crazy for you right now. What do you mean me taking the time you gotta you're you're doing this at eight o'clock at night and you got to get up at three o'clock in the morning. Yeah, but this is my job. You have a you have an actual job that requires a lot from you.

Well, last night, tornadoes in Alabama always wondering why not? Yes or why not? Yeah. As normal fare. Every time every tax season. We also has tornado season. So that's great. And to two o'clock in the morning this morning. I was up at the office filling up the generator with diesel fuel. No way. Oh, did you have a power outage? Out? Yeah. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. Outlaw Like, it wasn't. There was tornadoes here. But a lot of the damage and stuff happened from the straight line.

Like those gradient winds. They call them come through and it's just like, you know, you can get like 70 mile an hour wind gusts Just out of nowhere. Yeah, but no, no, Damn, it's fun weather, no damage further. I think there was damage all over the state, but nothing more than close to where I am. Right. But then you also have a busy workday because of tax season because you got nothing but accountants and other accounting tax professionals running around saying I can't figure out my password.

Yeah, little bit of that. Yeah. Password, a little bit of print. A little bit of print problems. Oh, yeah. print spooler. Server juice. Yeah. Remember that is able to print spooler? Do we still have that print? spooler? Oh, yeah. Principle is great. Because like, I think it was in October or September of October last year, there was a critical vulnerability in the print found in the way that Windows delivers

drivers. So in the Windows world, there's a thing called point in print has been there for literally since maybe NT, Windows NT 3.5. Point and print. Yes, called point in print. So the idea was that you would share a printer out from from a computer so you set up a printer on a computer then share the printer to the network. And then you could tell the printer the print the machine that controlled that printer, which

is now effectively the print server. You could tell them you could specify on that machine, a print driver so that what other machines on the network what they would do is they would go open up your print your computer in a member network neighborhood. And yeah, network neighborhood. Does that silly This network neighborhood, well, they've read, they've changed it, but it's effectively

the same thing. It's underneath. They just changed. So, like, you would go to Network neighborhood, open and double click on the machine that you wanted, that had the printer on it, see the printer there and double click it, and it would set it up on your machine and installed the driver for Yeah. Yeah, that's called point in print. Well, you know, 25 years later, there's a critical vulnerability that's been in there for 25 years. And ransomware unpacks and just takes over your network.

Yeah, totally. Yes. So Microsoft, quote, unquote, fixed it. And by fixing it, that means they broke all printing like they've just right. So they've spent the last literally the last like six or seven months, releasing patches to try to fix the original thing. They broke in a they break it even worse every time. So this, this really is such a such a testimonial for open

source and Linux. I mean, I'm blown away by now. I'm a Linux Mint guy, but and I've tried Linux throughout my entire computing, career, I guess, and professional career and it really stuck a couple of years ago, and I've just been Linux Mint. And it's really astounding how well everything just works. Just works. I've, I've been on and off of the Linux like as my main desktop train over the years. I've went in both feet, and then get back out and then went back in and I keep bouncing in and

out. So are you between Mac, Mac and Linux or Windows and Linux? Well, I'm after use them all. Yeah, but my main desktop at home is Mac my desktop at the office is Windows, but I'm about to switch that. I've literally got a new motherboard and I've gotten new parts. Building a PC foo, and I'm going back Linux baby do you have do you have a new you gotta have a power supply. Power supply. I've got a decent power supply from my old machine. It still

works. But I've got a Z 690 motherboard with a meno Gen twill Khorana. And I've got the whole you got a graphics processor. Yeah, well, luckily enough. I had an old radio on because you can't evidently you can't find graphics cards anymore. Oh, yeah. No, every everything's being used for mining. Yeah, yeah. I lucked out and kept one from from an old machine. But of course back to Linux, I'm going to move forward to Ubuntu.

When it really comes to just, you know, stomping bugs and getting stable releases out that are actually stable just works so much better in the open source environment. It seems to work better. And and if there's a problem, you can kind of go to somewhere and say, Hey, man, I got a problem. And someone will usually say this was already an issue five through two through 765. Go away. Then once you figure out how to find the issue, stop thread hijacking. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, well, okay.

So it happens. You learn you learn pretty quick what to want someone to point you to what you should be doing. I never sent you my clips. No, you did not know. I got. I did clips. I'd love some clips. Absolutely. I mean, we have some stuff to discuss. I'm dragging some clips over into signal right now. It was really interesting, because the thing that that just doesn't actually it was interesting, because the thing that doesn't interest me at all seem to be the topic of the day,

or maybe of the week. Okay. And this is YouTube is gonna be podcasting. Yeah. And I really haven't heard anyone say things like, you know, you don't necessarily want your audience to be built on YouTube. You know, it's like, you may not get it back. I've got I mean, I don't do you want to you want to give your you got thoughts about YouTube? We got you got thoughts here. I think you probably are better prepared than I am. So I'll add color. You run the Telestrator

Wait a minute, I want to do color illustrator. I got to talk to him not just the draw monkey come on manager draw monkey draw. Yeah. The what in the world is I don't know it's a urine. Do you hear that coming through the gate? Yeah, no, I hear something for sure. What's going on? I mean, you're at the office right this is this is we should have mentioned this. Now I don't know what that is. It's some sort of horrible noise Anthony. No, but what surely it'll maybe it's the cleaning

curse and don't worry about it. It's fine. Yeah, the know my thoughts were Number one, I was depressed. Really? I mean, yeah. Because you had. I don't know if you saw the Podcast Movement stuff, all of the podcast, people just crammed into that into that YouTube session to try to listen to like, get the crumbs that fell off of YouTube's tail. Yeah, everybody's all jacked up. Yeah, that's depressing.

Oh, no, I that. Okay, no, well, I'll withhold my my comments. I want to hear all I want your whole your full experience. Well, this goes back to Munchausen by 1000 proxies. Which is the, to me the most apt way to describe the podcast industry. There is no perhaps no industry that wants to give its autonomy away more than the podcast industry. It's just it's like it's constantly lusting for the next humungous corporation to come in and take it over and ruin and ruin everything it wants. It

wants it so bad. And it's so irritating to see it. Because it's like, I think maybe it it's like this perpetual underdog syndrome. Maybe since podcasting started in an age of big media. Yeah, yeah. It's always tried to be like, we want to be respected to you know, we want we want our, you know, we want to be we want to be one of the big boys and Oscars. So they're just always trying to psychologically sad that that open sore or something? Well, the podcast, press the media does an incredible

disservice. What, but most people most podcasters have not yet realized is where the where the value really is in podcasting. And it is most of the most of the the newsletters and the podcast publications. You know, they love you know, they have their own reasons why they like scoops and big news and, and they're still all about circulation, you know, it was like, grow your podcast, be bigger, have more be available in more places. We haven't seen any Terms of Service yet for

YouTube, that'll be interesting to see. And it's like you need the most people you can get, you need more people more as many as you can get. But that's not where the value is. Because you wind up with some numbers and you're going to be struggling, you're going to get some advertising, you'll have restrictions. And if you're doing it on YouTube, or on Spotify, you don't really own an owner's is shitty word. But you really, you can't build a community. And that's how

podcasting has just worked out best. When it's not about trying to get the most and be the biggest. And these numbers have become I've met this number broken record on this. It took me a while to figure it out. But after 15 years, I can tell you the value is not in, in trying to be the biggest and have the most. It's about building the relationship with your audience. And I know it sounds kind of highfalutin, but it's really possible. And it's not that hard, because I could do it. And

I don't have any skills. So please, No, but seriously, seriously. And that's the mistake. And so it's like, oh, another opportunity to make money. And then this and I'm just gonna be and so this is I'm not depressed, I'm very happy because I think it'll just be another another place that'll fuck up and be stupid and not and not work. It's like It's

like all the all the it's everything's stupid. We have the standard podcasting 2.0 We have the standard, we're setting the standard, we have the the movement, and that's something we can talk about, because that was also clear from the report card and evolutions been downloaded all that Yeah. But it's but it's really it's always going to be a disappointment. Because there's only it's only going to be established names or names with marketing money behind them. And it's just it. It's

usually it's a waste of your time. It's like if you say I'm going to start a podcast network, I would say no, no, no, no, it's going to end bad. And lo and behold, every network that was bought by Spotify was all pissed off and and then even the iHeart verge had a big article about it. Oh, and we didn't get advertising. We didn't get the attention. It doesn't work. This is a you cannot capture podcasting anymore. It's done. And this is ever evasive. Just Discovery is

bullshit. It's just it's good that I'm going on vacation because I'm really fired up about this part. We don't need some algorithmic discovery mechanism. For podcasts. That's just not how it works. Here's a perfect example. Tina and I have been talking about faith and religion and God on on our podcast. And people start saying, Hey, here's a book. Here's a podcast, this is how we discover not by going in and saying, oh, okay, maybe if I listen to this one

recommendation will pop up. And I can listen to that for 30 minutes. It's not the same as YouTube or Twitter. This is a inherently peer to peer medium people telling each other Hey, you should check that podcast out. How did you find that the last three podcasts you found? You didn't find him? Someone told you about them? That's right. Okay. Yeah. So but there's this, there's this. That's what's going on? And let's be honest, the press doesn't want to talk about

podcasting. 2.0 They didn't invent it. The only the only guy who actually reports anything is Cridland. Right. I mean, I was very disappointed to read the podcast Business Journal, what I learned that Podcast Movement evolutions. It means not a single mention of any podcasting. 2.0 Nothing. But like, it didn't happen. Like no one mentioned it was completely absent.

If we're not there, it doesn't get it doesn't get talked about everything other than Cridland. You know, Caitlyn talked about the report card and stuff and showed our scores and the high scores we got and it was really funny. Today, um, no agenda. I wrote that down because every single time before the donation segment, I was plugged podcasting. 2.0 do podcast apps calm. And so I had

it written down. It's like, yeah, you know, it's the most recent Podcast Movement evolutions you know, podcasts index got the top numbers above Google and Amazon and in creativity, innovation, all this stuff. And and the vortex have well, of course, you're putting those got everyone out of business those losers. I'm like, holy shit. And then he said, Tell me about this. This update thing this this that it updates so quick. And like 60 seconds. Totally shit. Devorah was asking

me about pod. Nose. Yes. And then he said, and then he said, Apple should be ashamed of themselves there. They're wasting all this energy and resources. I was blown away. I do. Wow. Yeah. more mainstream. I think we're getting there when divorce tech is has something to say about it. I was that was Wow. Okay. Yeah, that's, that's we've turned the corner evidently. This wheels up, baby. That's what I mean, when we onboard wheel wheels up.

I don't know if you remember. Of course, you remember this? That's a stupid thing to say. But I don't know if maybe people remember the timeline the way we do. But let me just throw this out at you. I mean, I was thinking back about you on YouTube. And the thing that the thing that strikes me about YouTube is it's it's very good at search is very good at video search. And video, I think is a medium that lends itself to, to easier search than audio. I hope that that's not just May I think

that's probably fairly self evident. Because there's a, we don't, I think we discount the visual component of search, even for things that aren't images and videos. So like when you do a Google search, there's a very visual component to what you get, you get the results back. I'm gonna I'm gonna agree with you 100% Because this happens to me every day. I'm looking for a clip of Jen Psaki talking some

shit on some certain day that I do the search. And sometimes I'll search directly on YouTube. And just by the thumbnails, I can see if it's the right outfit. I know it's the right setting. Oh, yeah, it's very important completely agree.

And, and it's not just that's not even just video. If you do a plain vanilla Google search, a lot of times you can instantly spot something, just that you know, that's the thing you want just by the headline without even reading or how many times have you been searching for something and you hit the image tab? Because you know, you're so that's what I'm actually talking about that thing?

Mm hmm. Yep. If you're searching for a person, you just know the person what they look like you don't you know, like that. Sometimes the image search will get you there faster than the actual text search. You know what we need? We need a chapter image search. That's a good idea. Dear chapter, hey, put it on the list. Where's my list? Here's the list. I found it. I'm going to title this the list view list view list is going to be huge. Your chapter

image search. Okay? That. So if you search, if you think back in time to the history of YouTube and how they sort of became dominant in that area. Do you remember? Back when? Okay, so there was Google Video? Yes. And what would happen all the time was you would go and search for something. And you know, it's a video and this is I think this is sort of pre YouTube dominance. And a lot of people don't under weren't there. They weren't know what to do.google.com was a go to. Yeah, yeah.

And it would occasionally surface some YouTube results. But hold on a second. It was way before YouTube was independent, though. That's when YouTube was just a little startup before they get bought wasn't even on the radar. As far as I'm concerned. It was almost nothing. Yeah. And so then, because then because they had YouTube. If I can just interrupt. Yeah, yeah, good. YouTube did a couple of things. One, it use flash. data. So it played super fast. It didn't have to load anything. There was

no embedded players, believe it or not, that was the thing. And of course, it was free posting and transcribing. You used to have to transcribe upload have crap loads of storage, and forget the bandwidth costs to here it was it was free. That's what it was. Yeah, it was easy, fast. Free. It worked on any device. Yep. And then you had you had the the whole ecosystem, like the video landscape back then was way more distributed. He had a Vimeo and you had, we had video podcast, via podcast.

So at one point you had, you had Vimeo, Google video, YouTube, was independent at the time, and then you had a whole slew of video podcasts and other smaller platforms. And then, Google tried to start indexing those into the Google Video Search. And it was horrible. Yeah, I never found anything decent. And shit would just go away to just this year. And they would always surface like the low quality versions of stuff, and you

couldn't find the good, you know, it's out there. But you can't find like, the higher quality and all it was, it was a bunch of garbage really. And then then YouTube, they they bought it integrated the search, where YouTube became a first where YouTube search results became first class citizens within Google search. And that was it, that that very much mean, just wipe the floor with everybody else. There. There's no such equivalent to that, in podcasting, you can't do the

same thing. That's, you can't take the audio medium, and, and replicate that thing with it. And that's why they're going you look at all the sort of the preview tech of what's been rumored and released a little bit so far. In it's all just, you know, try to use try to use artwork, try to use, you know, fancy still images, try, you know, try to you please, we'll

pay you $50,000 to switch the video. But I think they inherently know that this is not an YouTube is not an audio first medium is not going to be in it's not going to have the only way they can get discovery through their search stuff to work the same way that they did with with the original Google with original video search is if they just take all of the podcast platforms and just forced them into this metadata

funnel. And it's not possible. They can't do it. I just I'm gonna tell you this isn't this is gonna be a sad launch. It could be all kinds of stupid issues there. Now that I hear about ingesting RSS feeds does that mean they're going to suck in the audio and the end and they will store the audio? I mean, this is a big no this is a this is the one of the reasons I am going to turn 180 degrees on the block tag. Yeah, I don't want these eight. And and by the way, it's a farce to think that

you have to be everywhere. It's not true. Joe Rogan doesn't have to be everywhere. Oh, Yeah, he's getting $200 million. That's not the point is your is your community is wherever you want to be. If you distribute CD ROMs cassettes they will no agenda used to do that no agenda CDs used to have. I think we used to have cassette does see actually yes, CDs, cassettes, I remember that, yeah, CDs Yeah, with 1000s of CDs, that thumb drives all kinds of different ways of distributing. That's not where

the value is. This this is it's a fundamental switch you have to make in your brain, that it's unimportant. What's important is that either you can build a community around the topic that you're talking about, or if it's about money, that you make the most money without compromise. Obviously, I'm gonna tell you value for value as the way to do that. But without compromise part is really important. And when you I mean, are we insane?

It's like the already the consumer is choosing is having to make choices among streaming video and different music services. And it's becoming too crazy. There's too many apps there's too many bills to pay. And now you're going to do the exact same thing on the other side. Oh, I got to go check out my Spotify comment to go check out my YouTube stuff. Oh, got to check out my stats here. Got to check out my Apple stuff. This

is dumb. So So yeah, whatever you however, you said that it would just just was it man Munchausen by 1000 proxies that we use you call? Yeah. It's it's totally it's it is listen to the pod father for once. That's a wild goose chase. I did it I ran I did it. I raised the money. I did all these things. It doesn't pan out base because it's not centralized. That's one really good. That's a really good point you made about Rogan. I mean, he's, he's on one, he's in one place, you got to go jump

through a whole bunch of hoops to go listen to him. And people evidently are jumping through the hoops they need to go to listen to us about the content. Sure. And if he Yeah, he's making you know, a couple 100 million dollars on on Spotify. But if he left Spotify today and went, you know, just to somewhere B and went back to the open podcasting ecosystem, everybody just falling back there. Yeah, it's

absolutely. And you know, and if you really look at the numbers, reminder, 40% of women surveyed, listen to podcasts on their page in the player on the page. And I know Stephen is working on something for curio caster, but you know, take this into account. This is why I love cast coverage. You know, it it doesn't always have to be the same type of interface either. There's many different avenues we've just not explored yet. But

yet, you know, YouTube, so it's boring. It's really boring. And of course, then of course the the real the lead of the story is Oh, advertising. Oh, you'll get YouTube advertising. Oh, third partner advertising. Oh, Google advertising algos. Discoverability whoo subscribe, like smash that like button. I'm mocking it but I mean it this is bullshit. This is dumb. Is does I

really want I don't really know. Oh, as Okay, as a as a pod as a podcaster when you look out into you know, sort of what the quote unquote podcasting industry I mean, use in you see what YouTube looks like with the 50 ads, you know, for every video in it and that kind of thing. I mean, is that really what people want? No, they're not thinking about that. Dave is thinking about this starry eyed. Do you know what the single single best

thing is that the no agenda show has done in almost 15 years. The best thing we have done to strengthen the community and to actually raise our income was that I take a guess newsletter newsletters is critical but that's that that's been there from that's kind of part of the system but the best strap on we've added no agenda social. Ah, okay. That's where ideas are born. Now you know that it's It's Our

Community, they can interface with other people. It is it is a very, very cost effective Of course, the way no agenda runs that we have, you know, Aaron er, He's maintaining the whole thing out of the goodness of his heart, part of time, talent, treasure. These are the things that matter. This to two families have been living off of value for value and and no compromise. And not on Spotify. You know, Apple barely updates

us. You know, not on Amazon. Doing fine, happy. I don't feel like I'm not like I don't have reach or my show hasn't grown enough. I know a lot of people are rolling their eyes at me not right now. But you never hear this. It's always how do I grow my show? As you grow your bank account? That's what you're really saying. You want to make more money. Okay. Well, let me tell you a better way.

YouTube. Well, speaking of speaking, people rolling their eyes at you want to have printed out some some of these comments from the report card. Do Now I want to say up front, I don't like the report card. Even though we come out favorably. I don't like the sample size is small. I don't like that it's not third party verified. It's not really a good measure. It's fun. And then I also don't really like cherry picking of comments. Either we see all the comments, and I got them all.

You got them. Okay. I'm all not just for us. But for that I asked James and he said, and he sent me all of them all the comments, not just for us, but for all of the for everybody for Apple, Apple. Me all of the comments. Alright, so I'm not really a big fan of this. It's industry people probably considering where where the weather survey was done. So you know, there's a lot of things you don't know. And so yeah, we we come out great. I totally appreciate

that. But I can't be celebrating other than for the PR value of it. Because it's it's not really a scientific study, in my opinion. Well, I got it. I got it more for the criticisms than for the for the good stuff. Okay, you want to hurt me? We want to hurt me before we go on vacation. Okay, good. Well, I want to bring you I want to bring you low. Take me down, and you'll build me back up. Okay, I'm ready. I'm ready. Cut me.

I think it's probably it's probably a good idea to look at some of these look at some of the negative comments because they may be they may be onto something we may be blind and missing thing. Okay. Okay. Let's see, I highlighted a few that stood out to me now. Hold on, hold on a second. There was one other problem I had in there. Do you have the questions there as well? No, I just, I, I've ordered this by like section. So like

onboarding, monetization innovation? And then I just printed out the comments. Okay. Because the, the real problem I had was with the the phrasing of the question about monetization. Okay. I don't remember how it was phrased. Yeah. You got you got to Yeah, I got to find it here. The report card all right, why don't you read the comments now and I'll look up the codes of question didn't even mention value for value lightning or even Bitcoin just said crypto and tipping. Like come on, man.

That's bullshit. I didn't know that. Yeah, that was that. I don't think we'll see. I think that goes back to the your original thing of the this being sort of industry specific because Oh, yeah, it's everyone's into advertising. who answered this? No one wants to be cut out of advertising. No value for value is not not the way it's gonna go. Oh, yeah. But I guess what I mean, is I think they probably already know what it is. So the question is probably well,

no. Okay. Hold on. Read the question. I have the question here. Okay. These services offer ways to help your cod podcast make money from subscriptions to tipping and crypto. How well do they work for your podcast? Oh, come on. Testing that's it's fine. But that's not what we offer. It's not it's not and we don't offer shit. We don't read that's the thing is we don't offer anything. Yeah. All right. So that that was my real gripe is the question like that is I can't take these answers seriously.

Well, okay, there's still good stuff in here though. This. Let me see, let me say, I'll start off with a good one. How about this? I'm gonna give me all bad ones. It's fine. I'm gonna say this could be a good one first. Next is the only index that seems to take the time to remove garbage anchor feeds Plus supports namespace extensions. Yeah, well, that's all you baby. Dave Jones is the man. Well, let's meet when we found one that is for is about you. Let's see. It's a very

good dynamic. We have Here's this is a good one for you, you're gonna like this podcast index and podcasting 2.0 are really innovative, but I don't like the crypto focus around that. This burns our planet and raises the profit of Mr. Curry. See, I knew by by reading that that laugh instead of hurt your feelings. Yes. No it doesn't because I saw this comment this this, this joker

answered three comments. It was so obvious it was the same person he's killing the planet is burning it up with this damn crypto horrible man. He's arrived. He's rising your profit though? Well, luckily, Greenpeace and the XRP douchebag are going to save us as we change the code. So we're good to go.

So I would like to make some commentary on this. Within there was there's a few comments like this, here's, here's another one probably saying SEO, podcast index, like they have tags for donation, but they need to move past their infection, infatuation with Bitcoin. It's more harmful than it is valuable. And aside from it being a pyramid scheme contributing to the climate crisis, the barrier to entry is too high for listeners, let alone podcasters. I understand

the culture of value for value model comes from. But sure that's great for libertarians, but I'm happy sticking to the sidelines throwing stones from the right side of history. That's funny. I like that. I like it. Yeah. Well, I guess I guess we should we should consider that advertising based petro dollar system. That's working out. Great. That's clean. That's the clean energy for you. Great. The how many? How much? How much? How much fossil fuel

does a like a like a tank? Burn? Like? Oh, gallons a mile? Those? The military is the biggest polluter? Yeah, yeah. We're all in dollars to the petro dollar. Sure. But so just in general, I want to say this. I want criticism. It's it's how things get me it's how things get better. For me, bugs don't get fixed. If they aren't reported. People, you know, you you have to, you have to have people out there that tell you negative things. When you're building and creating, you need

it. Be nice. Assume you don't know everything. I think that's probably a good place to start when you're giving criticism. But also remember that when you're criticizing, think about note, you have to understand who you're criticizing. We're a bunch of people with day jobs, and no money. We're not Apple, we're not Spotify. And when I say we, I would like to define what we is we is anybody who participates in podcasting. 2.0

Because podcasting 2.0 is not Adam and Dave, podcasting. 2.0 is about 100 Different people all doing different things, sometimes just making comments. Yes, right. That is what we is. And every one of us have day jobs, most of them not involving this project. So this is a labor of love of everybody involved. So when you're criticizing, it's fair to criticize and it's it's

good, do it please do criticize. But remember who you're criticizing and what is actually going on on the other side of the criticism and allow me to expand because yes, value for value streaming payments are incredibly important to me. So when people criticize me, let me explain why I have pioneered a model that with Jhansi Dvorak, that allows us to make content which is very, very precious to us very dear to us. So we have no restrictions. It is completely what we want. And we and we

chose that path which meant we could not take advertising. We we have. So podcasting 2.0 was also for me not just to ensure that our podcast would be available at least on an app somewhere that I could point people to so they could use it. Should Apple decide just like the decided with Alex Jones or X 22 that all of a sudden we're no good. But worse we're incredibly

vulnerable with our money supply. At payment processors, anything could be shut off at a whim the the news is full of these of this You can you can be supporting a Canadian trucker and get your money turned off. That could happen to me. So when it comes to booster grams and value for value, I'm really, really passionate. So yeah, that's what you're hearing. It's not infatuation, I don't have the luxury of going back to the petro dollar advertising route, not mentally, but also just it

wouldn't be accepted. I can't I can't even create programming for it anymore. Doesn't mean I'm invalid or should be pushed aside or told to shut up or stop your infatuation, you libertarian douche that was well delivered. Thank you, thank you. I'm, I want to be podcast or one day I'm working on. The I mean, if you want a good example of this, I keep going back to this, you know, from time to time is, and you don't do this. We're in a climate right now. Where the people

getting canceled, or all all seem to be seen. It's not all there's plenty of people on the left getting canceled too, that you never hear about. But for the most part, there's a lot of right, right ish and libertarian leaning people that get cancelled and a lot of them are easy to vilify. From from the left. But please understand that can change. history, history is any indication, it not only can change but it will change. If you want a good example of that read Ty B's Matt Davies latest

thing about meat censored. Yeah, Chris Hedges. Yeah. Former New York Times guy not not a right guy, not a right leaning guy at all. His his his thing that got him canceled was he's anti war. And I can guarantee you that will get you canceled. And we don't want people like that getting canceled. We need people Yes, criticize, or yes, we want we want everyone to speak everyone to say whatever

they want. So so don't make yourself vulnerable. Don't give don't give yourself away to YouTube and Spotify don't sign their documents read what they're saying. And more and more importantly focus on your audience, whatever you want out of them. There's no such thing as Wolfman Jack anymore, you know. So there's one more thing create the we also includes the we have podcast in Tupelo also includes listeners, let Yes. And all the people in here that commented in the report card, if they want to

participate, yes, they can participate easily. Podcast index dot social, Twitter, GitHub, any of that stuff, they can participate. We keep a team's repo that Mike Newman updates all the time with names of people do distributors hop in and just make comments. And you're on the list and you're part of the you're part of the team. And but I want to say this creating is not stopping things you don't see any value in. So let me try to be more clear. It's not creating a thing to pop

in, and try to get other people to stop doing a thing. That's not creation. That's just commentary. If you want to create something new, do it create, create a new thing, help create a new thing. But don't mistake that don't mistake telling somebody else they ought to stop doing a thing as an act of creation, because it's not. It doesn't mean it's not valuable, if the thing they're doing is something that you feel strongly about. But let's just keep those two things clear.

Those aren't the same thing. Is that fair? Yes. You know, as you're as you're talking about this, here's a thought that ran through my mind. If we had gone you if Adam and Dave had drawn up a proposal and said, Okay, we're gonna create the world's largest independent database of podcasts. We're going to make an API available to any developer who wants to come in and do this. We were going to expand the functionality of podcasting. We're going to add a Bitcoin

payment system native to the whole shebang. Adam and Dave could have gone to Andreessen Horowitz and gotten 100% million dollars and it would have sucked. It would have sucked. That's the experience that we bring. And you're absolutely right. The beauty of this project is because of the nature of any one, you can throw sticks and stones, rocks, whatever you want at it. But it really comes to life when you start to participate. Example of participation. So Alex has just brigade, Mr. Good,

yes, Mr. Gates. He has a new proposal for a JSON payment token, which, which is a way of verifying proof of like giving validation or proof of payment. So that's one thing that's missing is, if you can say, you can say that you can see that a thing was paid, but you can't tell who paid it. That's native to lightning. Right? That's, that's an intentional, yes,

intentional and, but that can be a problem. Sometimes, let's just say if you've used, let's say, you've paid for a subscription to something, you need to say, Hey, I'm the one that did that. That was me. Because I want to verify my identity so that I can go and get so I can claim the subscription. So down the line, there's going to be a need for things like this for payment, verification. And he wrote up a very nice proposal, and we

tested it out works works well. With lnd, we were able to verify some payments. And it's all it's all open source. And it's up on that get up on the GitHub for the namespace right now. Good question. Does this in the future, because I've been paying attention to authentication with your lightning node, and your your lightning key, I guess, your your, your key pair? Is

this something that will fold into that? Because I think we're going to see a lot of authentication in the future being done through a lightning key pair instead of many other options. That's a hunch. Yeah, this is similar. This is based on a JW T, a JavaScript, JSON web token. And you can, it's, it's based on the properties of the lightning payment, so the payment hash,

and the amount paid. So you're, you're basically you're you're hashing these, these critical parts of the payment, and then come up with with a, you know, with a value, and then coming back and saying, you know, here's, here's the proof that, that I'm the one that hash, because you can write it right. So it can be out of band. That's interesting, because that's not something that would be enlightening at a certain point.

A pot, it's possible. Except, you know, Kison throws a wrench in the whole work, because, of course it does. Broadcasting money is the part that very few people understand. It takes a broadcaster to understand how damn cool that is. But it's not natural for most people, I think. No, and it's not natural for for lightning, either. It was you know, it's a hack. It's really a hack. Yeah. Love that. Yeah. So we that's, that is an example this proposal is is

going to come in predict very important down the line. And when we start to do more complex things, I love it. And that is a thing that nobody told Jay, nobody told Alex to do that. He did it himself completely independently. And it's part that is another contribution to podcasting. 2.0 is a contribution to the whole world, honestly, but its contribution to podcasting. 2.0 specifically, no, that is how this project works. That's how it works. People do what they want. Nobody

sets the rules. People do what they want. And as part of a shared vision, we create standards. Anybody can create one and the whole group that's it, we give it we give feedback. But nobody tells anybody else what to do. Not how this whole thing works. It also did I don't think I've ever even seen that happen. I don't think either and which is awesome. Yeah. And the way that that goes, that's just part of these records. We all we all know that you really you're really the one

that holds our MK Ultra key. You've got us by the nose We just follow Dave. Just burn, burn it down. Yes, Dave. Here's one. See, the podcasting in the podcast index gives hope. But it needs to become a standardized body if it wants to make any real impact, in my opinion, that goes back to what we were just saying. We're building standards. But we're not. We're not a governing body. No. Nor do we aspire to be an I've only had poor experiences in them and observing them.

Yes. Yeah. As soon as you sneeze, you stick a 501 C three on it and start doing all this stuff. It just all goes together. And when you have to have a meeting, I think that's when it starts. I just what I love about the dev meetings, they are they're kind of random ad hoc, it just they happen. The swarm of the flock of birds, you know, I'll go left we'll do a dev meeting. Yeah, these things are really these are, it's beautiful. It's as I said it before some of the most beautiful things I've ever

worked on. But you know, there's a lot of, well, this kind of folds into branding positioning, and I know that you're working on a, you're writing something. Yeah, that I presume is not done yet. You want to talk about it? Yeah, it's not done yet out? Yeah, we'll do. It'll definitely be out by the next show. So we'll talk about it then. But

it's, it's more of a vision piece. And I just had this kind of realization that from from reading these comments that we have not because there was a lot of this, let me let me interrupt myself. There was a lot of things that felt fell into this general response. What is podcast index? Question mark? Like there was a lot of that. Sure. Or I hadn't heard of podcast index, or I don't know, podcast index. What is it? I mean, there, there was just a lot of comments like that. Oh,

absolutely. Of course, because it's completely screwed up. It's very, it's very unclear. Absolutely. It this. And but again, this is what we're working on. And Daniel J. Lewis, painfully put together a Docker for me to now go figure out on my on my vacation. It's gonna be great. Just, it's simple. Just follow these instructions. On vacation. But it's, it's that important to me. But, you know, what we clearly are seeing is, you know, this was all placeholder and now we're

getting more into okay, what is podcasting? 2.0 Well, it's a number of things. Now, it can live at podcast index.org But it just has to be completely different when you get there, you know, we're screaming, you know, like, directory. You know, that's what it screams when you get there. new podcast apps.com is functional that works. You know, people get that it's like, okay, and they see it, but you don't really get there from the

homepage. So that's it's all it's all complete branding mess, which is, it was just fine to me because we're gonna figure out exactly how to say it pretty soon to the now we've talked about we talked this week about focusing more on just being a standards or not more on being let me try and well I'm not trying to say we we talked about standard standards as the way to communicate the things that we're doing

Yes. Which I like a lot the podcasts and not even staying plural just the podcast standard. Yeah. And so that that brings up some that I wanted throw throw at you you know, we've talked about it only see if I can find this comment this is actually there is a really sort of

critical comment here. And that I don't necessarily agree with but it is worth reading if I can find there's like there's something like you they should have podcast index should have put in this should have replicated all the iTunes tags immediately. They've wasted months bobble? Oh, yeah. Oh, here it is. Here it is. Okay. Podcast index has made some

colossal mistakes. Okay. Re innovating existing podcast namespace protocols, instead of just starting with, instead of starting with integrating all of Apple's namespace stuff was an extremely poor idea. And they've wasted months on an area of podcast tag that's questionable at best. I guess he's talking about crypto. It's shocking. This is the group that just might save podcast. We'll get there no matter what Brother Yes, if they can focus. Now that I'm back to searching their

directory. I hope they expand the search functions to at least at least to all available date data Then I hope they can start crunching and crawling and you know, indexing. Okay, so this is search guy. Yeah. So, but I wanted to focus on this re innovating existing podcast namespace protocols, instead of starting with the integrating all of Apple's namespace stuff was an extremely poor idea. No, well, it's because you don't

understand what, what what was good, what was going on. I think I think you're probably missing a critical sort of political component to this. And I don't mean politics with a big pay, I mean, a small p politics with when you in order to circumvent the uselessness of just replicating something that

already exists. So you, you have a namespace, what and what we have is a vision, and this is going to come out in the article in the article I'm writing, we have a vision for what the future of podcasting can be, what it can look like, the things that listeners can do. In order to get there you need we needed a namespace. And so concomitant with that, we have this, this notion that, okay, we can kill two birds with one stone by having new things that we want to enhance the division

of podcasting, podcasting, 2.0. And then also, we can use that to sort of bring in all the existing podcast stuff into one cohesive namespace. But you'll never, ever get anybody to adopt the quote unquote, podcast namespace, if all it does is from the beginning is replicate the iTunes namespace tags up somebody, it's, you can't sell that to anybody. I can't believe you're defending yourself over this,

I think, I think is mildly important. Because I can see the confusion would come it's like, okay, well, if you're going to, it makes a sort of sense. Okay, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start, you ought to start with pulling in what's already there, so that you have a baseline, like, you could defend that. But the defense is not, is not adequate. The defense doesn't hold up, because it won't ever get off the ground, what you

need is new things. And those things happen to serve the vision, but they also give adopters a reason to implement the thing that you created. Then later, which is what we're beginning to do now. Later, you bring it you begin to adopt the existing things in there. Because already now we have, you know, well, probably close to 400,000 podcast feeds out there that have the podcasts namespace declared in the Yeah, header,

and thank you. Once that happens, then everybody already has the declaration, and they can start to just expand the tag base. I was. You know, the Buzzsprout sponsors, pod news, or pod land, I think. And so, you know, James has a thing and he says, this week, 3942 people started podcasting it Buzzsprout and I hear that and I think well, let me add about the same number for RSS comm. This week, 10,000 people started using the podcast

standard, the podcast namespace. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we that's, that's the truth. Yeah, that's the way that's that's what it means. Yeah. And it's absolutely great. So anyway, to bring this all round, full circle, if YouTube, which will see hundreds of 1000s, I guess, feeds with with a namespace in it. If YouTube is seeing that, and they should understand this as a standard, it would be quite a shame if they didn't facilitate forward in their system, or anybody else

for that matter. And if they don't, when you literally are seeing this being provided, why are you not doing that? Yeah, it makes no sense. It's free. You know, here's another thing. I want to call my, my death listeners. I have them deaf and blind. The blind ones. There's also a lot of heart but hard of hearing is more correct. And English as a second language. They love the

transcripts. They love them. They really do. How many people say man appreciate the transcript because you know, I got cranked up to 11 Basically, he's a deaf guy making podcasts for a deaf person which is just hilarious. Okay, Then I look at all this money going into high end content podcasts. And I think you Hollywood douchebags, the best movie winner, the best movie was coda, a movie about deaf people. And you can't be bothered to put transcripts in your podcast, you hypocritical

dishes. It's really outrageous. I mean it it's outrageous. Now I agree. And where all the advertising jag offs I'm really on a roll today. You are like, I like pre vacation. Where we are, we can wait and wait till after vacation. Hey, man. Hey, baby, how is he doing? I love everybody. So YouTube, I Love you Youtube. Where's all the advertising people who are going to glean context from transcripts? What are we waiting for? If you really are in the in the game, if you're in the game

of advertising, you want to be indexed. Why don't you have transcripts? Oh, it's not free? Oh, I see. Okay, got it. Check. Yeah, it costs an extra 30 cents doesn't just Buzzsprout. Does anyone provide transcripts for their service and the modest software aiming? Well as a part of the part of the the monthly? I don't know. I don't know how that's built in. I'm assuming it is. Yeah. I don't know. One or two how to make anyway. I'm just saying, I don't

understand. I understand. I get nothing but happiness from people over the transcripts. People who get the MO facts, transcripts. Oh, my goodness, people use these to to search all the time. Yeah. Some guy actually put together a searchable database, which is this markdown thing. And it's some app and you throw a whole bunch of markdown files into a folder and it becomes this awesome search engine. What does that G O have to look at? Something with a B? I think,

Okay. Well, I want this might be a good time to play a clip. Okay. This is I would not normally play Leo. But this is a good this is a pretty good Leo clip. This was from when the Leo Laporte you mean from this week in tech? Do you do you watch this week in tech regularly? No, I never watched this weekend. This is from Windows weekly. Oh, okay. I like Windows weekly. Yeah. But the context of this is they're talking about why companies don't do things that are best for their users. So

this is this is good and context of all of this stuff. Retama, YouTube and everything. And what, why don't businesses just and this is specifically in the context of why windows 11 does not allow an easy way to switch your default browser. And why they keep junking up the built in Edge browser chunking it up with a bunch of crap nobody wants, right? Which all it does is self serve them by putting more bang stuff in front of your face. Yeah, until you register more and add more and buy more.

Yeah, so this, they're talking about what you know, what's good for business are good for the listener. Getting, you know, getting out of the way of all the times, you know, get let the content shine through. It's about the content, not the chrome or blah, blah, blah. And now there's like 118 built in features in edge. And it's like, yeah, now what's it about your icon? Like? It's, well, that's all just want to go to the sites they go to? They don't want your nonsense for collecting Welcome

to capitalism. You know, that's in a nutshell. What's wrong with computing, in general, is that instead of doing what the best for the users and the customers, they do, what's good for business? And it's this tension, how far can we push? What's good for our business without pushing away customers, but it's always gonna be for what's good for the business? Yes, no, of course.

Yeah, that's, that's it. And it's funny because if there's no, if there's no cliche about this, then there ought to be one that people kind of people are like, free market in their 20s. And they get maybe they get more socialist as they get older. Or maybe it's via the other way around. The other way around. It was one or the other, but,

but there's something new going on here. And and it's this project in particular, that is new and I'm I'm just going to say that it is My belief that because there is a common bond of value for value where anybody from the person doing chapters, even some people who comment, you know, we have value splits for all kinds of people across the board to app developers. There's, you know, there's interest from everybody somehow

I think that's the common bond. Whereas it's, it's capitalism or its capital, its has capitalist ideals, but in a very, for me, novel way. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so. I think that's the difference with our project. Because you're right. I mean, if we, if we went on got $100 million, not hard to do, by the way, it would have sucked, I mean, it would have fired you. And I would have been so unhappy, I'll tell you that. I think I told you that in the beginning, let's not be unhappy.

Let's do this, do it this way. And we'll play play clip to computing would be so different. In a world where companies just said, you know, Jeff Bezos is false mantra, you know, customer centric. If they just said, Look, we're just going to do what's right for the customer every single time. I think it would be a different experience such a good story, because they all do say that. Yeah, they don't lie. Yeah. Because I mean, for instance, messaging, a unified all messaging would talk to all

other message. Yeah. It's better for Apple's customers all messaging is not unique. No one uses Apple products, has friends that don't use Apple products. So why would you ever crazy? How can you? Droid why would you ever say it's? So I mean, there is this kind of, and it's completely bogus, you utopian vision. But there's this kind of notion of and, and you know why it persists is because people like you and me, Paul are old enough to remember a day when

computing was a hobbyist thing, not a business thing. It didn't last very long. But at that, at that point was very exciting and interesting. And you felt like, you know, we were working together. And and then you know, AOL came along? Yeah. Okay. That's the first thing. We just talked about the hypocritical nature of Mr. Laporte here. Yes. Trying to avoid that, now that now you can avoid that. I mean, he literally has named his studio after a software package and will and is

unable to talk about anything else. I mean, so it's completely hypocritical, what he's saying here, especially for someone who's supposed to be giving independent technology, review reviews and news, etc. So the Yeah, it will. Well, the analogy was good, though. Yeah. Because Apple computers. And I think we could if I've never looked at it this way, but you could probably map it. They have two types of audiences, consumers and creators. And we have the same, we have listeners and

podcasters. And how to the, the Holy Grail, of course, is to have those two, interact, I think Apple tries to capture everybody in the ecosystem. And we tried to create protocols and standards that allow that to happen, such as comments and booster grams and this kind of stuff. But it but we do, also, it's very challenging. And I think you can often see, when the creation side of the dev team with an apple is much more ahead of everything else. And they're kind of driving the

innovation, versus when they did Final Cut Pro 10. And they fucked it all up. So there was someone else was focusing on something, or, you know, Apple Maps, when it first came out the new iOS maps, which was a disaster, you know, these are not typical Apple things. So maybe they were focusing more on on the Creator side. So I think that that may be very difficult. It's hard also for an app developer to think that way for anybody really.

But when when he was talking in Chem, making me think is like, why, why about this tension between doing what's best for your business or doing what's best for the customer? And this sort of balancing act and going back and forth? Maybe, and this goes back to podcasting. 2.0 Since this, this sort of, little bit of a theme of of, of episode is, these is reviewing ourselves, and looking at these criticism. Maybe the answer is what we're is what we're actually already the position

we're already in. We don't have any customers. Maybe the answer to doing what's best for customers is not to have any customers. Well, that's the best kind of business of always. I've always said we'd have so much fun in the organization if we didn't have any customers. What if we kind of don't? This is true the podcasting 2.0 project doesn't have any customers to please. What we

have is a vision to satisfy. Now it means it means that we don't it means that nobody's gonna get you know, any money off of this, but at the same time, that's, that's okay. I mean, like, look at look at the, you know, early. He's a pining about the early days or nostalgic for the early days of the Internet and computing. They those guys didn't make any money either. Yeah, but let's just let's just app developers, I would wager who are doing this now or making more money than they made

previously. Which might zero. It might have been some subscriptions on the App Store. But out of the gate, out of the gate, you can start earning pennies. It's pennies, but out of the gate. That's unheard of. All right, let's just put some, yes, let's envision a world Okay, envision a world that, let's just say five, 710 years from now, who knows when it is envision this future world where lightning has become boom, the underlying base protocol for payments on the internet? Let's

just imagine that this works out. Lightning is lightning is the thing. Lots of payment processors begin to do it. I mean, there's this is already happening. Imagine the feature let's do it looks like this. And then at some point of critical mass in the future, when that begins to happen. Oh, big players begin to get into this. And then the podcast index, the smoke, all of us now we're all we're all crushed. I mean, that will be how it how it happens. What do you mean? Crushed? In what way?

I mean, some some big player will come in and say like a YouTube or something is oh, we'll just suck up all the all the all the data and like, okay, we're you know, we're gonna Oh, you know what? I disagree. But okay. Me. But I guess in that world, the tech, what I'm, what I'm trying to get at is the tech itself would survive. And people could still Oh, yeah. Make him make the system work and make

money independently through the apps. I would love nothing more than someone to set up a complete competing podcast index. I'm not sure what they would compete with. But I'd be interesting to see your customers. We have zero customers. No, ma'am. He's like, What are you gonna do different? You know, it's like, okay, yeah, maybe? Yeah. But I guess what I mean, is like the tech to tech out lives, the

crush stage. And then that goes back to the value of ray that, you know, would the 1000 true fans still make money even if some behemoth is also making money? I see recurring. Yeah. Versus the current scheme where if the behemoth makes money, nobody nobody else makes money. Yes. Yeah. You produce everything you get nothing. Yes. The Silicon Valley Way. Yeah, you do all the work is really

good. And we and by the way, we own it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's, I mean, there's I was talking to Dvorak about this. I said, you know, they're trying to capture everything. You know, Hollywood is throwing the big the big parties the big awards. You know, look look who's who can afford to market Listen, it's what that's what you do. That's what award shows for that's why I'm against them. And and then to add insult to injury, you get the the the board was that the the podcast

Academy board? Well, they've they've made some rules. And yes, the the makeup of the board has to be at minimum 40% indie. Now, I'm like, click. How insulting is that? Yeah, first of all, I hate the term indie. But okay. And 40% I mean, I don't get it. I do is because the Indies got no money. They're not paying any dues. They're not sponsoring awards. It's also obvious that don't fall for the trap. About about this one. I like what the podcast index is trying

to do. But it's still seems a bit complicated for the average user feels very command line to me rather than a friendly GUI. I think that's fair. That's interesting. Well, I know it All these criticisms are completely valid. Absolutely. It makes no sense. I mean, right. And that's why we've been promoting apps. And I rarely say go to podcast index.org. Unless it's, you know, to click on the docs or something like that. I mean, value. My value for value

overview isn't even linked from from the website. Yeah, it's literally not linked. The podcast index.org site is not really for. It's not really for normies. I mean, though, it can it can I guess it kinda is. I mean, you could search it was It wasn't intended that way. But it's, it has, it's an identity crisis with this, this tool will be fixed. Everything takes some time. But it's not killing us. It's not ruining anything. And I vehemently disagree that any perception of

me being a money grubbing whore, ruins anything. I also don't think that's true. No, and I don't know there. That's what I said the other day. I mean, there's like, you've been in the public acids, you're 19 years old, there's gonna you're gonna have enemies and they're gonna be vocal, and he can't You can't get around. Well, the enemy seems to be crypto or Bitcoin, not me. Crypto, crypto, and Bitcoin seems to be the enemy. That's what people are complaining about?

Well, we'll just we'll just, we'll just get all the Bitcoin people together, get them all to change to proof of stake and it's all fixed. Done. And, you know, and that's not to be this one other thing. There's a community that has grabbed on to our apps and our services. You may not agree with Bitcoin, you may not agree with with what they're talking about, but they're using our stuff.

Now, when it comes apps, I mean, I I had a really enjoyable time listening to the the Linux Journal to Linux unplugged I guess it is, Oh, yeah. Oh, man. It's like, it's one of the few outside podcasts outside of our kind of group of people. I know, because I listened to him. But they're they really they're really serious about value for value. And they they fill out a lot of 2.0 tags. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they're they've they've really adopted

the full the full thing. And I think it's because it's because they're concerned about the future of the podcast industry as we know it. I mean, there are there are, there is a real concern that in independent podcasters Yeah, it'll be either it'll be assimilate with the board or die, you know. Mm hmm. So DeVore Aqua saying they can't do it. You guys already broke that. And I didn't ask him to expand, but I think he thought about it.

Let's go so kind of proud. Yeah. No, I mean, that's, that's, we've crossed the Rubicon as far as we really have. Yeah, we really? Do we want to thank some people. Yes, I think that's a good idea. You gotta get some sleep brother. Night, I got four hours of best have to spin off. Dad, you know, this way to keep telling teenagers like it's rock and roll man, what happened to you? Come on, we got a show in Philly, get on the bus, we got some coke to do. On the way

there. Let's go, let's go where the girls. Yes value for value, the entire project is value for value, think we've been very clear why and how that works. And we need as much help as we can get. And you can do that in many different ways. As long as it still works. We of course, appreciate your pay pal Fiat fund coupons. It's an easy way to set up recurring donations. And we have a lot of those that's a lot we have, we have some even $5 a month makes a big

difference sauce. That's a that's a server that does very specific tasks. But the beauty of the value for value model is you can put anything down whatever the value is to you. And that's what makes it so, so appropriate for exactly what we're doing it. Some people may not value this and I don't even know why you're listening. And if you are, it's got to be you've got at least been entertained, informed, or annoyed. We we love hate boosts. So you can do that with a modern

podcast app, new podcast apps.com. Or you can also go to podcast index.org. So you can find the donate button at the bottom along with a QR code for tally coin to send us some on chain Satoshis I just like the word on chain. This sounds like a metal band. On chain. Yeah. Hello, Philadelphia. We just got off the bus. Meet our girls. Yo yo, do we thank him today, sir Shaun of the Allegheny Valley 1000 SATs. Let's see. He says first boost go Welcome to the club. I just, I just did a boost dump.

Email. This is a new term a boost dump. Yeah. Like, I run the script, I give it a time code of the last show. And then it just gives me every boost that happens since that time code. It just goes boop, boop, boop boop boop, it just pops all into my email. So this is this is I just did it. It's, it's, it's quite a deluge. Yes. So I'm getting I'm doing this in real time. Oh, well, let's do pen pals for okay. We're getting we're getting out.

Yeah. Dred Scott $15. And these, this is a monthly. Thank you. Thank you drip is a little out of order because of the nature of things but Jeff Miller $20 That's a monthly Thank you, Jeff. Very much appreciated. Michael Kimmer $5.33 He's long. Been monthly for a long time. Lesley Martin $2. Thank you, Leslie. See Pedro gon. calvus. Also longtime for $5. Very long. Thank you. Yep. Aaron Reno. $5 as a monthly and the last one. Oh, this was a single, not a monthly $10. No note from Jesse

Hunter. Thank you, Jessie. You're very much. Yes, those are those are all our monthly fees. Those are monthly. Yeah. Those are the monthly they hit this week and then one new like one time. Okay. donation in the restroom boosts. See? This is where it gets confusing is to figure out when they originally came in. I think some of these may have been live last week. But there was a 3333 from cotton Janee said we're lit I don't think I heard you

know I don't think so. Well This of course was lit in in context of the live item tag when your podcast goes lit we're not live this time we know thank God let's see. Oh David made us 3369 there Curio Castro and he says I'm doing my duty and boost for humanity. Thank you very much. Boost see oh, yeah, we did we read this one about from Sir

Spencer about the Bitcoin block party in Kansas City. Abel, Abel Kirby and I will be evangelizing podcasting 2.0 and other digital content over value for value at the KC Bitcoin block party. Yes. Yeah, we did. We did. It's Westport, Kansas. Kansas City. Cool. Yeah, very cool. On April the 24th. Is that once we did that one came into thanks again day for swapping our feed to the new one. We already do that. They

don't see these. The timestamps get funky on these because they don't really match up because I know, you know, there's this really cool tool called heli pad and it doesn't export in Excel. Have you heard of it? You can run it on your Umbral. I've not heard of that. I'll look into it. Harv had 5000 SATs through courier caster and he says tipping gets lower wages for waiters and waitresses across the USA even still today.

That's right. That's right. whooshed. Chris, you know, gave us 1000 SATs through fountain and he says a great example here is tipping the dealer in poker. You only tip just after you want a hand which greatly increases the size of the tips as you're in good in a good mood while deciding how much to tip. Yes, this was part of our value for value conversation about timing and bringing, bringing the donation into the into the actual experience. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's a good

point. Mint lion. This is a new one. I've not heard this name before. Row ducks. 2222 Oh, all right. Thank you Drew Brees and he says Jonathan Edwards better watches bag Dr. Dave is gunning for that top American philosopher spot. Mere Mortals book reviews. Okay. With ease. See? Oh, this might be our this might be the baller. Look through the list here. Yeah, yes. Baller booster here. 77 777 Whoa, hold on a second. Who is this? Steve Webb podcaster.

Shot Carla 20 is Blaze own I am Paula g god caster OG God. Kastri says Steve gave that through fountain and he says as an OG podcaster. I completely agree with you, Adam. Comments booster grams should be separated in my opinion. There's an assumption that booster grams are directed to the podcaster not the public. Just my two cents. I have received booster grants that I know would not have been sent had the sender

thought they would become public. Right Lifespring family Audio Bible at at audio Bible dot link where we are reading through the entire Bible in one year join us. I've actually listened to a couple episodes. Well of course I've listened to two episodes many many times, but I recently started listening. He's got a great voice. He does. I thought he was a pastor, but he's not just just a podcaster just God caster, just God caster. Thank you, Steve. Appreciate that. Sir Brian of London. He says,

Let me guess. 1948 And he said I see a button. I saw it and he pushed it. Thanks, bro. Let's see. Roy Roy Schonfeld. 54321 Who Roy Thank you, brother. Does he have a note? Answer through breezy says Adam. You're an inspiration heart. Oh, oh, I love Roy. Oh, how you doing booster. Huh? Oh, Roy. Follow up again. With 10,000 SATs. He says Dave blew my mind. Oh. Oh, he came back with a second boost. I must have blown his mind. Well, it's because you laid some cool last philosophy crap on everybody.

Brother that was hardcore. Stick around Roy was it was deep. Yep. See, Master. That's a new one. 333 SATs through fountain and he says greetings from Amsterdam. Yeah. Greetings. Hello, Amsterdam. Amsterdam. We just got in from Philly. Andy flattery. 2000 Sassy says pod father. Yes. The guy who made the original stacker news post coming around coming around. Sorry for all the drama. Oh. You wrote the value for value is curry wrong post? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's cute.

Um, the guy who made the original stacker nice post. I'm coming around. Sorry for all the trolls. Oh, that's okay. Man know that. Hey, it got a good car. It was at least 25 minutes of content. That's appreciated. Totally. Yeah. Oscar, the fountain boosts are coming in with the with the Unicode all messed up. We got to figure out how to fix that. If you if you know about that bug, I think you do. Anyway. See, Thank you, Andy. Appreciate that. CASB Lind

1000 SATs they found an he says do what what does he say? Do a gas show I'm sorry. What? Do a gasps show? I'm sorry to say without Adam. next two weeks. Is this this? This seems like transliterated Dutch into English. Yeah, he's I guess he's saying how do I have a guest do the show? Oh, okay. I think I think he said fuck out them in Dutch. Just bring it just bring a guest in who gives a crap about that guy. You can do it. You can do a Dave Jones. Yeah, you're the sage

pig. This pig Dutch is with it is Dutch. Yeah. Thanks for the boots, man. Yeah, thanks cast. Oh, yeah, here it comes again. 1000 says Cast painless. They found he says haha, rolling the dice with the curtains closed. Okay. 1000 says from CAST peeling. Again, he says the problem with boost versus comments and fountain was the default public boost. The options should be default off I would think love the boost segment value for value. Thank you very much. See, we get next.

See 2020 to 148 from Brian of London and the hive da Oh. Oh, that's, that's the regular donation coming through is is Transmogrifier B. They see. Okay, so this is this is the the V for V app. That's that's the Rube Goldberg machine. Yeah, it says a weekly $10 V four v donation converted to SATs from Brian of London and the hive DHF da Oh go podcasting? Go podcasting? Indeed. Thank you, Brian. Yeah, thanks, Brian. 49,000 SATs from Auburn Citadel to fountain.

He says the pod stage is living up to his name when Dave Jones philosophy when the Dave Jones philosophy podcast Thank you. Thank you. That was nice. It would be a bombshell. Oh, I got a different one. Do you see the ISO there? Sure do. Let me give it a whirl. One cop Cole woke up call. I like that. That's a good one. See? The mozzie give us 12,345 stats. Thank you, Brian. fountain and he says, boost. Oops, boost. As always, thanks for the show and all the work. Is there a new SATs equivalent

for the podcasting 2.0 t shirt? I think it used to be like 200,000 SATs with the change 225 Is it now? 250 or something else? I don't know. It's a moving target. Right? It is a moving target. There was a thread about this and I have to say there's a couple a couple of apps I think it may be curio caster was a couple of apps that that do fiyat translations. That's kind of handy. I remember we talked about this at the very

beginning. And there was a lot of, I think, was mainly the Sphinx guys like not we do SATs only SATs only SATs No, no fiyat numbers. I think that would actually help. It might help get us more money. People people realize that 1000 SATs is you know it's true it's all appreciated. And if it's just for quick comment of course well here the podcasters that make you know that are making

money from the from the from value value in the app. They seem to talk about that of course remind them and remind their listeners of the you know the correlation there and what I've heard I think that seems like something that I've heard podcasters and listeners asked for like just decide the website USD sat.com That is a really I mean that just tells you straight up what the current conversion is. Yeah, thanks. Thanks very much. I'm not sure what it's just a

moving target. Yeah and the extra costs is just because we they're nicer T shirts now and that the fulfillment cost more. Yeah. See Thank you Ed jaunty Ms. At road ducks 2222 They breeze. Thank you very much. He says now with 128 characters I'm breeze That's right. That's right. Dred Scott godson as 1000 says as a test I don't know what he's testing but appreciate that test. That's a test. He's probably testing his own thing. Hey, man, let me see if I get my SATs. That's I do that all the time.

Hey, there I haven't no sat no boost since for three hours. Let me just boost let me I'm worried Let me test boost. Here's some stats for all your SE. Oh, this is from Jordan Harding. Another new name, but not new boosters lately. 5000 SATs they found and he says here's some stats for all of your genius Dave. Oh, wow. Yay. See? Thank you. Nicholas. Be 58 Okay, through fountain 2100 SATs and he says do not just stand there. Boost. Boost. Great

episode. I love what you're doing. Keep it up for a better future. Oh, thank you. Thank you. That's a great note. Got two more. Wait no, no, we've got Yeah, got three more. I'm sorry. Oh, you know what's messing me up here is we're doing it a day early. So there's no CSB. I was looking at you know, it's funny you say that because I wrote down that this in CSV probably doesn't know that we're that we're recording right now.

I was going to give him a freebie and say remember to listen to AI cooking with pub owner and poet laureate noble. Somebody some force? Well, yes, exactly. Dynamite. Yes. It's a great pot. Yo. By the way, the recall value of value for value advertising is off the charts, man. Everybody knows the ads. They can recall him like crazy. Dr. Dub gave us 10,000 sets. We're talking this is nice. Yeah. You found and he said in his message is Dr. dub, dub.

Like get stuff from the shameless self promotion. boost up. Pot. Podcasting legend Dave Jackson 10,000 SATs. medic. He says love the philosophy talk from Professor Jones go podcasting podcast. I think we need to have more of that. David. You're a big hit. Yeah, clearly kid with the boosters and driving boosts your breakout booster hit top of the charts. Kevin Bay 500 sets to fountain and he says trying to catch up on what's going on and thoroughly enjoying

the conversation with Gigi. Keep up the great work. And that's it. That's our group. Very good group. Thank you all so much. much for supporting podcasts in 2.0 If no one ever questions if this value for value thing works, I don't know you're soaking in it maj I'm just saying it seems to keep the project alive. Yes. Philosophy podcast. Value for value philosophy podcast with Dave Jones. I want to do all the imaging for you. But speaking of philosophy, a buddy of mine, Jordan Peterson

was here in town in Birmingham. Oh, this right here. Yeah, and, and a friend of mine went and saw him and said it was just horrible breeze. It was awful. Yeah. He said the tickets were $150 Dying Gina number one here. And he said it was like a little bit of Jordan Peterson and then just some other person. Like doing a whole bunch. It was almost like Jordan Peterson presents. Jordan Peterson. You know, it was just this kind of weird. He said it was just a terrible time.

That's interesting. So it wasn't really Jordan Peterson just doing his podcast, which everybody loves him for? Yeah, I don't think so. It's like, it seems like he may be. I don't know. Reading his own news a little bit too much. Maybe. Huh. I wonder what that I'll have to look and see how the tours build. I didn't realize that he had someone else doing stuff. That's interesting. He was weird at just a heads up in case I mean, anybody gets a hankering

to go see him. This doesn't sound like it's worth the expensive ticket. Ah, you gotta get going, bro. Man. Yeah, I guess so. Gotta get moving here. Man. Yeah. So I can't even I was going to tell you about my idea for distributed Wikipedia. Oh, yeah. Four hours later, I've just I'm just saying I got ideas. But there's also so much we have to do with podcasting to point out I'm I remain incredibly enthusiastic. The YouTube news for me is it's it's really glorious because I want

to see them do something and and the inevitable will happen. I have time. I'm very, very patient. And you know, it took many many years until serial brought podcasting one Dotto to the forefront at the right moment. So this will happen. This will all happen at the right time. My Favorite Comment on Twitter this past week was Yeah, remember the last time Google wanted everybody to put their RSS feed into one of their products? Yeah, that turned out

was that Brian of London? That was it. I don't know. I don't remember. It should be. He knows he knows. Yep. Our brother. No, you got some crazy weeks coming up and the board meeting next week? We'll do once I get back Friday night so we'll do a Saturday. Yeah, sounds good. I'm sure it'll be cruising along checking stuff out. You know, make sure you kick me off the social when I'm posting too much from vacation.

Oh, no. Yeah, if you if you start to break protocol, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna smack you down. Okay. All right, brother. Get home to your family. Get out of that office. Yeah, man. On the way out. Could you check the print spooler for me? No, she has taken the fridge that's it. Everybody, podcasting. 2.0 We'll be back next week. Join us have a great weekend. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast. For more information. Cool, woke up cool.