Episode 79: Users and Developers Partying Together

podcasting 2.0 for March 25 2022, episode 79 users and developers partying together Hello, everybody. Welcome to the official board meeting for podcasting. 2.0 everything happening in podcast index.org, the podcast namespace, and of course, podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who can redirect anything to the correct destination, my friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones.

Barely got that title in. I mean, you had to work at it. Get it in under the head. But I did it. I did it. I hit the postman. Your break? He squeezed it right. No, you're a pro. You squeezed it right in there. Like she shot the gap. Just a shot. But yeah. I mean, you're, you're an old D, you know, experienced DJ, so you know how to shoot the gap was called hitting the post shooting the gap is a term I've, although I will use it from now on gap juice.

Good gap juice. Yes, indeed. And we are live. Right now. You're using a 2.0 app that understands the brand new lived. What do we call this? The live item tag? Yeah, but that's not a very sexy marketing term. I'm thinking you know, something that people were grabbed onto like, podcast live or? What? Huh? We need to come up with something. It needs to be called something. Not not the live pod. LIVE TAG live item. The live. Open angle bracket.

Well, hold on a second. You know what live item tag is a great acronym. For what lit? Show? It's podcast with baby. It's live items. I'm writing that one down. I got to work on that genius. item tag. Live. Yeah, you're lit. Baby. You're lit. In when you when somebody implements the live item that no show is lit. Yes, exactly. And you know, live is the whole thing. I think it works. I think it works. And I'm where I'm with you. And what two things I've discovered this week.

Okay. It was pretty slow week, actually. Yes. I discovered two things that are very important. Number one. Comments make people angry. systems make people angry. And cryptocurrency makes people angry. Yes. So when you marry the two together, it's it's a beautiful development. It is. Well, I don't think angry is the right term. I wish it was a little bit I was triggered. You Oh, you are true. Yeah, I was triggered. I personally was like a hairpin on a 50 Cal baby, I was triggered.

Due to you talking gun told now that you're in Texas, too. You know, I've learned a lot through therapy. This is what three marriages will do. You know, it's like you go to therapy, and you learn a lot of stuff. And you've learned mainly about yourself. And what I've learned is that it's much more useful to find out why I'm responding to something the way I am then issue itself. Because then from there, everything kind

of flows. Makes sense? Yeah, yeah. And so do you mind if I, if I go down the path of of my process? No, please. Do you have the floor? Yes. Maybe we should explain what this is about before I before I jump into it. Could you give us the timeline? From your viewpoint? Because mine I'm sure is slanted. And we're talking here about the come about the commenting. Draw drama that unfolded? It will I'll let me say it this way. First, let me preface it with this. I will say in past open

source projects that I've been involved in. And I've been involved in a few. The typical way this goes down is somebody has a disagreement with the way things should be implemented or designed. Another person responds to that to that disagreement. The vehemently with their own an alternate take a flame war ensues. And then everybody gets pissed off and leaves and forks the project. That's typically that is typically the experience that happens and you can look at

every open source project. And know maybe not everyone but lots and lots of them. Next things like next Cloud, at some point,

people always get pissed off and want to fork and leave. In fact, you act, I was just gonna say you and I have both been involved with my dog is just barking for a second have both been involved in in projects where the person running the project literally would shut down the server and then you know, close the mail list not talking anybody far away go here for a week without any notice. Just like what what happened, it just all sudden, the server's gone.

This, the fact that this project has not even come close to that shows me the health of things overall. So these things do not bother me. Because robust public debate and disagreement. There's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. You know, if it does, those are necessary. And it's necessary sometimes for people to get angry. And because when when people get angry about stuff, typically what that means to me is that you need to stop what you're doing and listen. Yeah, it doesn't mean you're

wrong. It doesn't that that's that has to be clear, it does not mean that what just because that the angriest person is right. It just means that when so when what you're saying is pissing somebody off that bad, it's a good sign that you probably need to chill out for a minute, and listen to what they're saying and come back with a different approach. And ultimately, if you can't find agreement, that's fine. You just, you know, you just disagree. In in the world moves

on. But it this is all regarding calm cross app comments. And specifically lightning comments. And how lightning comments get implemented with relation to booster grams. Are they the same thing? Can you mix and match the two? It's sort of created this firestorm of where's the source of truth? Who's you know, do people expect things to be public? And that's kind of where this sort of shit show happened? I think you're you kind of nailed that. And it was, to me

it was I was triggered because it came as a surprise. I didn't really understand what was happening. But let me just go through what because there's a lot more to this than just comments. So podcasting is my life's work. So I'm gonna say I'm admittedly emotional about it. And in value for value is also something that's very near and dear to my heart, having developed it with with Dvorak. So what I see are, the issue is really bigger. It's about process. It's about the

podcasting. 2.0 movement. It's how things work. Do we follow any guidelines? Do we work together? You know, we we actually used a lot from podcasting. 1.0 When we started this project, Dave rules for standards makers was one which, which Dave Winer developed. And there was another one, another mantra of podcasting. 1.0 and, and just kind of came back to

me, as I'm trying to figure out, you know, why am I so? Why do I have such a visceral response, or what you might call grumpy is the mantra at the time was users and developers partying together. And by that we meant all users, so listeners and podcasters but really, at the time, it was just podcasters podcasters were making we were listening to each other's

podcasts. And it's very analogous to what's happening now with with podcasting, 2.0, certainly with with booster grams, etc. So it was a little circular, and it just kind of grew and grew and grew from there. But the users and developers partying together part was key, particularly the podcasters and the developers. That's why I think it works. So

well. Remember, when I when I went to Dave Winer as a content creator as a podcaster, who had you know, who could, you know, write, print, you know, and I had to convince him It took me two days to convince him to create this because I knew how it could be used. And you have to understand what what it may what it looks like to try to

convince Dave Weiner or something. It's a it's a perilous endeavor is not not for the faint of heart knows he is going to let you know exactly what he thinks about your shitty idea. I flew to New York to convince him I mean, I did it wasn't just flew to New York and I went back the next day and and then you know, when I showed him what I meant, in in his ratio, user land frontier code, it was it was a mess. And you know, so it took some work, but And we clearly never were friends. And

we've had all kinds of issues. But the partying together part we got right. And so I think that was the key to our early success. And if you think about it in the in the lit of history here, the podcasters are a valuable part of the equation. And we don't have a lot of that really in our development process. And as you said, Dave, we all have to listen. So let's just go through some history, the early days, when we were bootstrapping, it wasn't just RSS, RSS had been around for a

long time. There were no apps to speak of what bootstrapped podcasting was the daily source code, and more. But the daily source code, while I was creating and using the features, at the same time to content was bootstrapping this process. And it was very close circle, because the developers who were working on iPod or X and iPod or lemon and all these different apps, which, you know, of course, were applications at the time. They were a part of the programming is what they were

doing was in the show. Here, this is why we're doing this show. So I'll fast forward a whole bunch. But is the daily source code of podcasting? 2.0 that's yes, that's that's in view. And I just, we launched the show as such, the whole idea was to replicate the successful formula. So then I'll fast forward. I meet with jobs, and we're gonna, and he's gonna put podcasting into iTunes. Now, there are two things that I didn't contemplate there was,

I've only talked about one. But now I realized the other part here. We made Apple a de facto gateway to podcasting that we I did. So that wasn't too brilliant, in hindsight, but also Apple did something very interesting right away. They created a one click subscription, which was not a speck. It was just it was their thing was a feature. And that

really made Apple the default for users as well. But it wasn't really something everybody could do, because you couldn't, it was unfair advantage because you couldn't put an overcast what you can today, 20 years later, you couldn't put an overcast Chiclet on there and have one click subscribe and overcast. It

was always going to go to the Apple podcast app. But what really drove podcasting, which was a disappointment for the Oh, geez, at the time, was Apple put the BBC and NPR and all this, this really this great wealth of content right there on the homepage, because Steve Jobs knew that he needed to sell this to his customers. And if it was just Dawn and Drew, who I adore, and maj Weinstein and the daily source code where I'm cussing away, it would it would detract it would not be for his core

customer necessarily. And having this the content that is highbrow drove that to an extreme again, the content drove it yes, they had the the technology to play with but the content drove that. Then we had YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and podcasting was just kind of you know, was little quiet, little stagnant, no features, nothing happens. What brought podcasting back? Was it a new app? Was it a new feature? No, it was Serial

podcast, and specifically podcasters are valuable. Joe Rogan, was worth hundreds of millions of dollars to Spotify to promote their app. Now, why are apple and Spotify the top apps, because podcasters are always telling people the same mantra. Subscribe to us on Apple and Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. That's the part we need to change. That's why we came up with new podcast apps.com. So we can have a universal place where we can send people and say this is

podcasting. 2.0. Now, if Glenn Beck or Megyn, Kelly just said use cast ematic you think people would be I think they would think that I think they'd go and try that app out immediately. But we've chosen as a group to promote the entire movement. And the proof is in the pudding. If and if you haven't noticed, there's a large number of users and that's listeners and podcasters and people who are both who have sir or Dame in their name. Where did they come from? Are these just a bunch of

royalty that showed up? No. I told these people who listen to my podcast to come check out podcasting 2.0 And I've only promoted the entire concept never one app or service over another and that's why new podcasts out dot com is so fantastic to send people to every you know, no matter what features any of the apps or services support, I know they will function the same.

But if they're different than what? And what if I went on Rogan and didn't promote new podcast apps calm or just said, Hey, breeze, that's podcasting 2.0 or pod verse, would that help podcasting 2.0 Maybe it to a degree, but it will certainly help those apps. So we make choices I choose to promote and work in the entire movement, the movement is in sync in accordance with the namespace. So now we get to the value block

the value tag, it's called value for a reason. Value for value is a brand that was built up over a 15 year period on the no agenda show. It's a monetization model. And it's a content format. At one, it's like a floor wax in a desert topic. And it has this feedback loop, you ask, which is the most difficult part for most people, you ask people to support you, the payments with messages come in and are read on the show. It's it's content is

an important part of the of the entire format. It's also inspirational and, and people gamify that in many ways, and then you remind people and you rinse and repeat and you do it over again. Now I'm not independently wealthy, I rely on my podcast as my sole source of income. So I'm going to be passionate about this stuff. And I think podcasters matter and I

feel a little neglected. And when we continue with the value for value part, payments and messages, payments and messages or content specific to the show, producers or listeners take ownership of that content of that segment. It's valuable to them since it's going to be on the show. And they are private between the sender, the payer and the recipient, making payment and messaging information public without the podcasters consent to me is like publishing an email that you

were cc.so. These payments and messages are not intended to be used as a standalone feature for an app, which is how it felt to me. So now we get to users and developers partying together. Here's what I'm doing. Because I feel like I am an important part of the development process. Even though I don't write a lick of code. I support all the tags that I possibly can Thank you,

Steven, be in South sovereign feed calm. I share my income with people like Dred Scott, who keep the features exciting and consistent and do the chapters so we have something to show, I publish the live schedule tag, even though no app supports it. No app supports the scheduled time, but I'm still doing it because I know someone's gonna want to put that in. And then

we'll have something to test against it. For months, I've been supporting the social interact tag for cross app comments, I've been promoting this to my listener group teasing it. And all of a sudden there was a party I wasn't invited to comments appeared that were not, you know, cross app comments. But they were being promoted as comments didn't work with with my comments that I've been

publishing for months, I had lost control. So my content booster grams from my people were public, my payment and messaging system. Now I have to sort everything because there's comments and all kinds of stuff in heli pad that was unexpected. It's almost like imagine if an app started publishing our Pay Pal messages. So Brent, for me, we need to realize where success can come from. If we can get podcasters to say, get a modern app, whatever, whatever we come up with, if we can send them to

new podcast apps calm, we can all win. If everybody has the same features than we then we really compete for the same core workings, I should say, any any other features you have is what you're ultimately going to win people over with. But if we have all these different commenting systems, and you know, we have a pod friend has its own little thing going on. And so, you know, it's like, why promote a group if the group is not the

same? So let's work together because when you can get podcasters to promote podcasting 2.0 specifically through new podcast apps.com Everybody can win. Otherwise, it's just going to be people promoting certain apps. And I would think that would that's a big shame. And And finally, the thing that's really unfortunate is the value for value brand. is now confused. We've get we were starting Give it up. Booster grams is a great brand. That's

now. That's now lightning comments. What the fuck? Don't give that to the Lightning Network, podcasting 2.0 That's our shit. So don't just give stuff up that easily. There we go. That I think, you know, this goes back to a thing that we that I have had to learn. And I was mentioning this to somebody this week is that I've had to learn this at this sort of idea over and over again, is we're in working with you over the last 10 plus years. How many times would I go to you and say, Hey,

this is a killer feature. And I would put it into the freedom controller, and then find out, you know, and you're like, oh, cool, I'll check it out. And then I'll find out six months later that you had never touched it. And then and I start asking you why. And you say, well, it just doesn't, it just doesn't fit. It doesn't fit what I do in So explain to me what you do.

And I would realize through your explanation, that that's that what I thought a podcaster wanted, or what I thought a podcast prep looked like, was actually nothing like what it looked like, because I wasn't a podcaster. Right. And so when you make when you create features in it sounds like we're just crapping all over. Oscar but not not No, no, not at all. Not at all. No, this is, hey, we're running

with scissors. But you know, when you when you fall down and you got to cut in your arm, we got to stop and talk about it. Let's stop and talking hug. But the best. I had a friend actually, I got to tell you the story in Holland when I was growing up, and he and his brother would always fight. And one time the one brother was chasing the other one with a pair of scissors. And his mom said, hey, you know, don't do that. You're going to put an eye out. And

then he put his eye out by accident. The Christmas story actually happened. He got it at the red Ryder BB gun. And he had a Gouki i the rest of his life. Okay, I'm sorry. Sorry, this was a little comedic interlude. But anyway, yeah, it's not it's, it's that issue is always going

to be the case. When when you're writing code, and you you're envisioning something that you're not, that you're that is not part of your, your normal course of events like you don't have, like Nat now I can write the freedom controller editor page 10 times better since I'm podcasting every week. At the moment, I just couldn't do it. I just didn't have the knowledge base to work off of. And the thing the thing that was confusing to me with with caught with the lightning comments, is

that what I thought it was was a was purely comments. And then maybe that was just me Miss reading the spec. But then when the VAT when the when it came through, and it's like, okay, just add an extra thing in your value block. And again, this could have been just me missing the obvious, put an extra split in your value block. And then we'll show all the booster grams as comments. That part didn't come across to me when I read

the spec. And like it was very disorienting to have all of a sudden, you have your you what what has been built up and what has come to be like a common language between everybody that booster Grahams are a thing that is content on a show. And it's private between a podcast or like a Patreon or PayPal. That thing when all of a sudden that changes. It's a big deal. Yeah. And it's a big deal, not for just the podcaster. But for the listener as well, because I heard from I was talking to

somebody this week, and it just off the cuff. He said to me that he was not expecting his boost to show up in the comments because he commented from fountain and right. It was it was just a disorienting experience that thing. I think in retrospect it was unfortunate that it happened with him at the time it did, because comments are already from the very beginning. We knew they were going to be the most difficult task It brings in every single problem. It brings in Source of

Truth issues. It brings in moderation issues and politics. You know, it brings in 10 different messaging systems in which one to use decentralization. I mean, like, every complicated thing you can possibly think of is all wrapped up in this one tag, and then we threw on top of it booster grams. Yes. And just to make it easy. Yeah, yeah, that was an overload. Yeah, it was just too. It was just too much. It was too unfortunately, I think it there's already been

trepidation. And, and sort of underlying unease within the project about cross app comments. And then you throw in the I think the lightning proposal just threw some gas on that fire that was already there. Just just just, it was bad timing it really well, if we had, if this had come up four months ago, it wouldn't have been such a big thing, we would have talked it out. And it would have not been so closely tied to all of the other stuff like with well, is, what about, what about

Twitter? Is this stuff going too slow? What do we you know, all of these other issues that how, if you know, should it be moderated? Should it be decentralized? I don't want comments on my way, on my post, or excuse me, on my episode, if I don't want to, I should be in control, like, this big discussion was already happening in enlightening comments came in and it was like, Oh, crap, right. It's off the rails. Now. Not to say that I'm very excited about the having the

capability to surface booster grams. It's nothing wrong with that. But a it has to be my call from my feed the source of truth for my show. And I mean, you we just have to have some agreement about what apps are doing, or anyone who's taking a split from the value block. Well, I guess that's not entirely true in this case, in this case, what if your recipient on a on a message that doesn't give you which has multiple recipients? It just doesn't necessarily give anyone the right to publish that

publicly? That's just rude. I mean, I know that wasn't the intent. Right. But that, but that's truly how it works. I mean, this is money. That's, that's going back and forth. And yeah, and I could get into all the other aspects of how I think it cheapens the whole pot, the prospect. I mean, I understand right now, there's a lot of excitement about lightning and tipping, which, as you know, is not value for value. And by the way, I've discovered and I think I posted a tipping is racist.

Did you know it's it has racist origins? Yes, I put it in the show notes. Yep. Tipping is racist. Yes, it is. It kept wages low for formerly enslaved black workers. I believe we have stacker news, and it's super cool that y'all it's about stacker news, it's super cool that you can, you know, load up 1000 SATs and you can tap the lightning bolt and give somebody a set. And that's tipping. That's it's really just a voting system. It's just a voting

system with money. Whoever has the most numbers, you know, it's like, Oh, that's great. But it's not value for value. And there was even a whole thread there were value for value was now getting confused with the lightning comments. I mean, this that just drove me over the edge. Well, the so this stacker news post, I've got some thoughts about that. Because the the underlying sort of tenor of that thread was Why would I give my why would I give my bitcoin to a

podcast now on a larger time scale? Like that, that five bucks or whatever, that you're boosting represents, like, maybe 5000 bucks in the future of appreciated value or whatever. And so like that, that was what that was kind of this underlying idea. That's not an idea, but it was about lightning comments. So there's the confusion between value for value in lightning comments in the headlines. The headline was value for value though that was the problem.

Right? Yeah. See? So then, you know, there's this but on that topic, I don't want to switch away from topics unless you're unless you're done with I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. Well, so that brings that brings up a different topic to me, just on that specific issue. Why do we make Why do we make the decisions that we make? When it comes to? Money or boosting or tipping? Or any, any any? When it comes to where do you when you're going to give value away? And that's, that's a big

question within the value for value model. I mean, like, what? Why would you choose? Why would you choose to give, you know, to give this Bitcoin away or whatever this might be? You know, and it brought back to mind. Jonathan Edwards. If you don't know Jonathan Edwards are is he's, he's, I mean, he's, he's comment, he's talked about me because he was a pastor, and he was part of the Great Awakening of the United States,

and stuff like that. But he, but he was more than just that he was the first president of the first month, he was the first base, he was former president of Princeton University, considered by most to be the greatest American, the greatest philosopher or greatest scholar that America America has ever produced. That is, sort of one of his seminal works was called

freedom of the will. And so he makes, he makes this statement that free moral agents, all always choose, according to the strongest ink strongest inclination they have at the moment of choosing is that that's, that's, that's a critical distinction. So you, it doesn't mean that when you make a choice, that your overall context of that choice, is the thing that you want to do. So you can imagine this sort of example of a, of a person approaching you with a gun, and

he demands the keys to your car. And if you give him the keys to your car, it's not that you want to. But at that moment, at that precise moment, you determine your will decided that that was your best course of action. It's the thing you wanted to do is give him the keys your car, because the alternative was maybe you would be killed. Maybe a better explanation is the one

that that Edwards himself he used. He said, he talks about this chessboard, he says, Okay, if you he tries to explain this, and says if you have this chessboard in front of you with no pieces on it, so it's this grid of black and white squares, and somebody says, Put your finger on a square. Which one would you put it on? Is it a completely open ended? Question? With no, with no influence at all within your mind? Well, if

that's the case, you would never move your hand. So what he breaks it down into steps and says, Okay, it's so you look at the board, maybe one little piece, one little section of the board catches your attention, because it has a slight discoloration or whatever, and then goes through the steps of, then you decide well, why it's as good as black. And eventually you come to this moment of choosing where your will decides that putting your finger on that particular spot is, is the thing

you want to do. So that maybe is a better example without all the moral moralizing. But regardless, the This is why bringing the donation process in this is where it comes back into comments value for value. Bringing the donation process as

close to the product experience as possible. is so critical because of that because of this the my strongest inclination on a random Tuesday at three o'clock in the afternoon, when my credit card pings me for five bucks a month for that podcast subscription may not be to have to be subscribed to a podcast. My strongest inclination at that moment may be that my transmission just blew up in one why the hell am I paying for

this podcast in a may cancel the subscription. But if you bring the Donation Point down into the app and bring it to the point where it's at the moment when that person has joy about what they just heard, or they find what you said important or anything like that, at that, at that moment, that is when you get this sort of pure, pure moral economic decision that somebody doesn't But he's just made, the value exchange proposition is morally pure at that moment, it's no longer a

dark pattern where you're trying to just keep somebody to keep somebody's credit card on file, so you can, so you can keep it going and that kind of thing. Well, that's a, that's a critical moment in the value for value exchange. That's why this, that's why it is it is in the app. And that's why we seem to like ignore things like subscriptions and these other funding models. Well, that's one of the reasons but that but that

this is an important reason. When you extrapolate that out to something like a commenting system, it doesn't work the same. Because the a, people do not attach the same value to something like a Twitter post, that they do to a to something like a podcast, which is a product, which is a product that's being delivered. Like if there's an if there's an implicit value statement that's happening, when you produce a

podcasting, give it to the listener. And then when you come back with value to the podcaster, that represents the exchange of value. So anyway, what I'm trying to say is, like all the value for value this, this answers the question of why, you know, why would I give somebody $5 worth of bitcoin today for their podcast, when it may be worth 5000 In the future, you know, then five years from now, that same amount of

bitcoin? Well, that's, that's wise, because in that moment, you made that decision, you made the decision that the best use of your value was to give it back to the podcaster. And there's no other model that represents things in such a economically morally pure way. Is that fair? You brought a tear to my eye. In fact, mission accomplished. I boosted you right now. I'm glad we don't we're not on video. That was beautiful. And only you could because you're a

philosophy guy. Didn't you major in it? Yeah. Are you perfect? You're a professor, aren't you? You got a PhD in philosophy, in PhD in value for value. Well, thank you. I don't know anyone who could have who could have explained it that way. That and this, this is something I'm going to save this episode. That was in fact, I needed transcribed. Hey, I'll transcribe it through my through auto odor or whatever it is. It'd be really funny that way. Oh, yeah, that'll be fun. Nice.

Yes. Dr. Dave, the doctor of value. Well, do we do we want to talk about the part about the comments tag as it stands? Because I just finished it yesterday. Yeah. Yes. There's something new in there that I saw, which was priority, or was that always in there? Maybe I hadn't looked at it properly. It was in there already. Yeah. Okay. That, so I tightened it up

and leave. And as you can pull it up, it's kind of fun to go back to the discussion page on the GitHub and see how the first post from James is all about this should only be activity pub. Oh, yeah. Kind of kind of funny to read how we evolve. Yeah, well, the the activity pub. So here's, here's what I tried to do with this is focus on activity. Just focus on the things that we already know exist. In our in US activity, pub, Twitter, lightning. Comments, those threes in here?

I want to say that like the lightning comments, is a as a spec is a good one. And it needs it needs to exist. I'm fine with it. It needs to exist in in the comments spec and not mix the value for value stuff. That's Yes, yes, exactly. And so from that, so I put it a def I put it in there. And it's part of the it's on the slug list for this. And unfortunately, I don't see a way around having a slug list. At this point. They just list out the explain explain slug lists and why it's unfortunate.

Well, so a slug list is basically just a set have a list of predefined word variables. Now, they're not variables. They're just they're, they're static. Right? Okay. Where it says, you know, where you say, Okay, these are this is it's like an A gnome, if you know what that is. And in programming, it's a list what of possible choices. What was that called? A noon in un. Okay, that's what that means. Okay? Yeah, it's like I say, here's a list of choices. That basically

is what Nina is. And then that's what this is, right? So it's not open where it fill in the blank. As long as you do XY and Z. It's like, here's the ones you can use for now. Yeah, yeah. And that's unfortunate. Yeah, cold acid. enumeration of values. Exactly. So that's unfortunate, because that means people have to keep up with the list. So you have a list you have to keep up with but really, I mean, it's, it's a small list, it's very small, and it's going to grow at a very manageable Ray.

It's going to grow by one within a week, and that'll be hive. Heed Right. Exactly. Yes. It will be hive, as a matter of fact, should go and put that in there. Just anticipation. But so there's the tag is podcast, social interact. That's the only one we're doing. We're not we're not looking at podcast, social, or podcast, social sign up at this point. This is the only tag we're looking at in Phase Five, podcast, social interact. It has

four attributes. Protocol, which references one of the choices from the slug list currently that is, that are that is the following. Activity, pub, Twitter, lightning, or disabled. Right. The account ID attribute is and the account URL attribute the recommended but optional. And that would be the account ID would be the account ID on the platform being referenced of the person who posted the the route post. So if it's me, you know if I'm the one that did it live for today's show, it would be at

Dave at podcast index dot social. The account URL is the is my profile, my public URL profile on that, that system? So my public podcast index dot social profile? URL? Yeah, yep, yep. Yep. And then priority is if you have multiple if you're going to post to Mastodon, Twitter, law and lightning, you got to give some priority so that the app knows which ones you find what your importance cred, you know, what's the criteria? What do you find more important, it's low to high, so it's in descending

order. So priority of one is the most important. Priority three would be the least in that scenario. And then the app that at least gives them a hint as to what kind of what your intent is. And then the node value itself is the URL of the route posts. So that would be just the full URL of this Twitter status, or the full URL to this Tute, on Mastodon, or whatever. And so that's, that's essentially the way that that's the proposal.

Right. And so that that could give you as long as you're logged into the platform, or you have whatever authentication to the platform and question from the slug list, then you will apparently be able to interact. Yeah. So that's the idea that you would have a login. That's why you have the social login element that's coming later. Yeah, that is, yeah. Yeah. That's to be nice to be determined. What, how that fits, and where we use it and all

that. And I guess, so the, you know, the idea here is you can, you could kind of approach it a couple of ways. You could say, well, I just want I don't want to get all into the coding of like pulling apps into pull, excuse me pulling comments into the app. I'm just going to I know that see this Twitter URL, I'm just going to like iframe it and stick it in there. Yes. Kind of, yes. Kind of a cheap chancy way to do it. But yeah, but that's that's what cheerio caster is also doing an iframe

right now. Right? He's I think Stephens doing that for the IRC comment, right? I'm just saying, right, but I'm just saying that iframes for now, it was you just use sound a little bit like it was kind of icky. It is. Everywhere. I know you so well, honey, I know. I know what you think something's achy. I'm like that My boy doesn't like this What's going on is gross. I almost automatically went to mark that like for no agenda, I'm always marking shit Devorah for the opening segment, I

almost went to mark that automatically. Well, that that's the and this is not a good way to do it. But if you had to, you could I mean, that's, that's, that's fine. The The nice thing would be to you would be to use the protocol attribute. And yeah, yeah, yes. Right. It says Twitter or activity pub or whatever, and then go hit the URL with thread cap or whatever tool you're using in just a second. So now you're waiting comments on this. So we can then go to finalization.

Yes, I'm waiting comments on the comments. I have a some comments for you on the block tag as proposed. Oh, Lord. Oh, Lord. What are your comments on the blog tag? I'm afraid. Yeah, you should be. Yes. I'm sure you hate it. Oh, no, I don't hate it. In fact, I am resisting. Resisting my inner urge to love it, which is very is very, very hard.

Because my my brain weird thing to say? Yes. My Yeah. So my, in my heart in my heart, which concerns me, my heart, and I'll explain, let me just get the feeling out, then I'll explain why my heart really desires this. And I know it's a sin. Oh, okay. So I'm very, and I mean, this, I mean, this, I'm very conflicted about it. So I looked at the slug list, the num of all the platforms, you can signal in your feed, to block to block your podcast from being ingested. And it includes every

app. Every and I'm sure the list will expand. Yeah, it'll be the entire end. And I want to I want to warn everybody that this is a very, very dangerous tag. This will fucking ruin everything, for the reasons of the sin I have in my heart. Because here's how it would be used in a fit of grumpiness. Fuck those guys. I'm blocking I'm blocking fountain from my feed. That's what's gonna happen. So I'm warning for this.

Noted it's been it's been it's been written. So that when this this is so antithetical to the idea of podcasting, it hurts and it hurts because I know exactly how it will be used because of the sin I have in my soul. You know, I'm right, you know, I'm right. Oh, no. 100% agree. 100% I mean, I think I'm the one who, you know, usually go one rewind this thing. And I think I'm the one that said if, if this becomes abused, I'm immediately gonna stop stop.

Right? You did say that. Yeah. And so then it will be ignored. I mean, even the we have the junior what is the the we have? Do not import? What is that? The LOGTAG the locked block yet locked tag? Is that really being followed by anybody? A bus? Oh, yeah. Yeah, bus. Oh, and are a lot of people ignoring it? Well, the ones you would expect? Yeah. Well, you know, exactly. The anchor, you know. Exactly. Yeah, the big the ones that is intended to stop they do. But, you know, I'm not opposed to.

I'm not opposed to tags, like this that have? Did he know? Me? Know, but let me let me just and I'll just finish it up. Because, of course, okay, in this case, fountain could completely ignore my block, which would then result in anger back and forth. And then before you know it, even though I don't have block, they won't put my feet in, you know that I mean that and I'm just using this as an example because that's where I that's

where I feel this would have come up. This is a perfect example of that. Now, I'm sorry, go ahead. Well, I'm just gonna say I'm 57 It's not my first rodeo. I've done stupid shit in my life. Here's, let me give you the real world example of how this came.

Because I was gonna let this sort of go away. But then, because of the comments that I've had before, and then I just spit on the wound didn't know Oh, no, no, no, no, I'm not talking about right now I'm saying like, I was gonna let this tag just disappeared, I was not going to put it in the in the fat in the Oh, okay. And I was prepared to let it die on the vine. But this specific

thing happened. And that is a hosting company contacted, contacted me and said, Hey, there's about 50 or so feeds that you have in the index, that they're not private feeds, but there's about 50 of them that we don't want listed publicly. And I was like, Yeah, sure, just send me the send me the list. And they said we, and this person said, I'm surprised that they showed up, because we put in the iTunes block tag. Ah, yeah. And, and I said, Well, my response was, Well, according to

the iTunes spam namespace, yeah, it only applies to Apple. So in the name in the in the namespace for the in the iTunes namespace, these are the official documentation for that tag says that. Apple, if that tag exists, Apple will not index the fees, your rule follower. I'm a rule follower. I mean, 100%, you know, and so, and you, but what happened was, because there's not a general purpose

block tag. Everybody treats that. Everybody within the podcast, let's just say infrastructure industry treats the iTunes block tag as if it means general block everybody, right? And good on, you know that. Yeah, well, that has the net effect that has the net result of there is no way to block only specific things. You can't block only apple and not Google. You can either block everybody. Or nobody if that's

what this block the iTunes block tag means, right? And it goes even further because James posted on Twitter, because me and him were talking about this privately. And so he posted a survey on Twitter, he said, Okay, if if I put iTunes block in my feed, what does everybody think that that means block a block Apple or block everything in the overwhelming majority of

people said that means only block Apple, right? So there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the iTunes block tag means in a fee. And how did you solve that with them? Oh, I just removed them by hand. You know, I removed it and and I started I put into the aggregator to not index anything that's got the block tag in it. Because because the the hosting companies the infrastructure people think that that's what that means, even though everybody else does not an

infrastructure doesn't think that's what that means. Exactly. So having a block tag that allows more fine grained control it seems kind of necessary because you it if I want my you know agenda, you want the no agenda show to be in Apple's directory, but you don't want it in Spotify as directory with the iTunes block tag. There's no way to do that. There's really absolutely no way to do well but just so we're clear I'm okay with anybody importing my

feed. I'm not okay if you're going to run ads around it and that's what Spotify does by default that's why they have you sign their contract. Yeah, so they're doing it the right way even though it's ineffective they're doing it the right way. I just don't agree with them. So that's fine, you know, but that but I personally feel there should be no blockage.

Well, the Oh, I agree. 100% I don't think there should be any blockage at all the the podcast hosting infrastructure world is convinced that the iTunes block tag in means block means nobody should index that feed. And that's a mess. Yeah, it gives up it leaves apple with power. Yeah, so as I Okay, you either block us and everybody else are you blocking nobody. And like that's not cool. That gives them off the hook all the time. And bastards I have a few other things.

I've got a lot of thoughts in the pot news report card, but I don't want to talk about that this week because I guess my blood pressure up. No, I had last week. Yeah, I have not looked at it yet. I wanted to mention that the new version of cast coverage, huh? No, that thing is nuts. The app on acid that app is crazy. I mean, love it. It's, it's so it's dope. It really is. I mean, you go to cast coverage.com. Oh, oops, sorry. Oh, it remembers all my

state. I didn't realize that. That's cool. Oops. Okay, so this is what it does. It pops open windows for every function. You can rearrange them, it has little connecting strings between between it so you can control different windows and it's nuts. It looks like an old is anybody remember, this is exactly what this looks like, if anybody knows what this is. Does anybody remember flux box? Or black box Window Manager for Linux? Or?

Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yes. Flux box. You know, I'm looking at it right now. That was my favorite Window Manager. It was pretty damn simple. Yeah, that was my favorite window manager because it had this one.

Here's the design philosophy of flux box slash black box. Is there the only thing that ever the only thing you ever see on the screen is a right click menu nothing else and you know design there's like there's like a comp file that you go into and design your your right click minion had you had like 12 different hierarchies of stuff hanging off of it was awesome. Yeah, I do remember this. Of course, I never used it proper properly. are probably more confused by it.

Raw relsci This needs a nice dark mode. Yes. Needs dark mode. It does. Yeah. I just thought that was fantastic. Oh, wait, wait, if you wait, wait, if you click on the bottom left, the little, the little square at the bottom left? Yeah, it changes the window color. No, you kidding me? It changed it to think there was a really cool, really cool article in The Guardian, which I just wanted to mention, I put it in the show notes. listening to podcasts on headphones, increases perceived

intimacy with hosts research finds. I just wanted to bring this up because, you know, people, my voice was good up until now. People always like, you know, you're really anal about sound. Yes, I am. Because I know I know that we're in people's heads. And now they have data to back it up. It's very intimate. You get to use that power responsibly. When you get into somebody's head don't just oh, you know, just be pulling wires. There is so much power in audio. Because remember, everything is

vibration. Everything is vibration. And so when it's vibrating when when when my voice vibrates through the microphone and vibrates out through your speakers, your earbuds and vibrates into your body, you become an antenna for the vibration. And so when I shake the rainstick we get tornadoes in Austin. Butterfly butterflies and Talon South America, Shaolin yeah this shit real Oh, one other just general thing I get a lot of people saying how are they any of these apps on the F

droid store? And I think is Mitchell updating pod verse on F droid? I mean, I know it's a pain in the ass I have a feeling it may not be but a lot of people are really looking for any of our apps on F droid that's a good question. I don't know if he is or not. I don't know because he hadn't he had really talked about at one point dropping it because I think he said it was a real pain.

Yeah, well, I can understand it. I'm doing well. There's just some low hanging fruit there is I guess what I'm pointing out what is the deal with F droid? Is is it in order to get in it you can't have any dependency on a Google library? I don't know I don't think so. But I have no idea you know, they they always put in there you know some not so friendly features features you may not like you know like uses third

party networks blah blah blah. So Intel at least it tells you about all the stuff I don't know if they forbid anything specifically. I think open source is that it Yeah, cold acid said it has to be open source. Alex just posted the links. I guess it's I guess if pod vs in there. Oh, it is Oh good. Good. Yeah. Looks like Good, okay. Because I just want to send people there when they ask. Oh, and that's one other thing about the users and developers partying

together. This is not to exclude the listeners, you have a duty to. You got it, you got if you hear if you learn about a new podcast apps.com from a podcaster, tell the other podcast you're listening to, you know, makes a difference. That's how it works. That's how historically podcasting grows is through the content, the content interacting in real time with the development of the platform, the software, the standard. Right? You have a duty to boost. patriotic duty?

Hell, yeah. If you're a global citizen. I think that when it comes when it comes to that notion, going back to the value for value thing for a second in his wound is sort of listener responsibility, or whatever you want to call it. I was listening to buck bus cast yesterday. And they were saying they had this. They had a podcaster on there. This lady does does a podcast on their network. And she was talking about how she had had a lot of success on Patreon. She

said that they took like, roughly 8%. Really, she said, but there were there were higher levels that would give you other options. Like you could go as high like 12% or something. And they would do other things. But she said they've had a lot of success. And when they were talking about, oh, why? She mentioned that. She thinks it's got to do with their call to action. Where they you know, say detail, they essentially they

tell their audience about it. Mm hmm. You know, and I was like, Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, life's not like magic. Well, this See, this is important, though, because I don't think that, like, this is the big issue with value for value and how boosts and that kind of thing have been, have been seen in other products. Some podcasts are doing this very, very well. Yep. And other podcasts are not doing it at all. You know, they just sort of put a value book in their feed.

And then it's like, Okay, I'm done. But no, I mean, like, if you want, you can just hook up Patreon is okay, I'm done. I mean, you got to tell people like, that's the thing, the the value for value is critical. It is just like anything else, you have to tell people that is there. You have

to tell people that it's there. You have to tell people why it's no different from I don't know, if you have, do you have the ads that are running now they're maybe they're local to our network, where the there's a kind of a, you know, older millennial ish woman, and she's in Ukraine, and it's for the war torn Jews, and she's with this old woman who looks just perfect for the part. And it's a really long ad, and it's all to raise money for a nonprofit. And, you know, that's a heart wrenching

ad. How many times you've had Have you heard one 807, seven cars for kids. You know, if Ronald McDonald House never had communication with their, with, with their patrons, or former patient or family members, I should say, that Humane Society, there's no one no one would ever give anything. Because if you don't ask, they don't give. That's the part that people have to get over. That's the hardest part, you know, divorce, and I writing the book

about it, it's really, really weird to do that. But when you do it, that's when, when you see it come alive. There's, you know, there's, if you just want the fun of, if you're just if you're not wanting to get money or anything like that from a podcast, I mean, you know, age, what the fun of the technology, and that's fine. But if, if, as a if you actually want to, you know, if your goal was to monetize in some way, well, then you just you have to tell people how they

can do it. Otherwise, they just don't know, you know, but you know, hey, you know, but that actually isn't true. But I'm thinking now that I'm thinking about this. This is actually an interesting part of value value as it's implemented in apps, in the podcast into porno apps. I just remember the lightbulb moment, all right. You're lit all lit. I'll get the live tag. The the other eye ways of monetizing, like Patreon and stuff involve you having to tell your audience that is there?

Because they need because otherwise they would not know. But but the podcasting 2.0 apps surface the boost button on the page where the when it sees an ad a podcast that is value enabled. Yes, sir. That's how I know like for that one, that's the square Yes, your finger on that's the square you need to put your finger on. There's no other square yet. So this actually solves the discoverability issue with

monetization. Mm hmm. Why did I not see this before? So like when I'm in cast Matic, which is what I usually use on a daily driver, is when there's a value for value podcast. It pops up like I see the boost button. If it's no boost button. There's no bear. Yeah, it's not they don't have value bought. Like, that's genius. That's genius. And I just figured it out. I'm not a genius. Yeah, no hunting around for PayPal buttons or anything like that. No. And it's consistent across all apps.

I'm resisting the urge to dive into the podcasts the pod news report card because it goes into a lot of this stuff. I want to talk about that next week but that is there there was there was criticism in there of us focusing too much on crypto stuff. And but that like that's this is important, and I'm not getting into it. I'm not doing it again. My goodness. Dave is too bad you you can only meet with me on

your lunch hour. We had more time. We could have so much more fun together that's the yeah anyway that's that just hit me and I can't believe I didn't realize that before. It's a Genius system. is genius. And Alex is right too. You can do it for blogs and stuff if you put that in there because it just shows up. Yep. It's it's not a matter of of having to like tell people like it's a it's a UI. This is a UI

Yeah. This this is what I was talking to Steven B about I said can you spruce up your your widget you know this goes back because he heard what we were talking about about 40% of women listened to the podcast on the website to paint he just make your little player widget cage just have a boost in there and a wallet wallet support and you know expand window or whatever i don't know i mean it makes so much sense. He cleaned up something because it looks different. I don't know

if you've seen it like the donation set. thing where it says pricing i think i in the price I use it every day. What did I miss? Was if you click on the pricing link at the top Oh pricing. I don't I never click on pricing. Is this curio casters biscuit a little donation widget there. Yeah, QR code. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Oh, it's a donate needs to donate what he does? Yeah. 3% and 3% of the amount is it? My god, that's an outrageous fee. That's impressive.

Are you hitting all the cylinders to know well, wait on that. Hey, by the way, aren't you on vacation next week? Brother? Me? Yeah, I thought you were going on vacation. No, when when? Because you weren't? You weren't going to Bitcoin? 2022. I thought just because you're on vacation, or was that something else? Oh, no. Is because it's tax season. Oh, screw that because we have a problem, Houston. Oh, no. Are you gonna be out of town next week?

Two weeks to Friday? Oh, no. Yes. Two Fridays? Yeah. Bummer. Now we can we can do a Thursday evening, which I'm fine with. I'll survive, which I would kind of prefer as this. So that would be next or this coming Thursday. And then we could do if you want Saturday when I come back. I'll come back Friday, but I'll be back too late for the show. And not and I'll be I won't. I won't have time to prepare. I don't want to miss the board meeting.

That's incredibly important to me. Yeah, sure. We can do it there. We got to go spread. My dad's ashes are Oh, no, wait, this is our vacation. That's a different trip. There'll be no interruption of that trip. Okay. Yeah. So you're so you're okay, so we would do this come in Thursday night. Unless you want to just take one week off. I mean, we can take one week off. No, but I mean, it's more for you. I'm fine doing it. But as long as I can. I don't know. We'll talk about that to share. We'll

finish all right. Okay, sorry about that. Didn't mean to spring it on you but yeah, That's okay. No, no tech, if I'm fried, I'm fried. I need I need a week off. I'm so fried. Do we want to talk about the work on the aggregator? Yeah, I'd love to hear about the aggregate aggregator. It's exciting. It was not at all. I'm about I'm about to rock your world. And if you're just aggravate, that's what we're talking about here. aggravator, it's the this is not that. This is not that,

necessarily. It's tied to it. But so here, so that they that the polar the new polar, the aggravator. Polar is, is done. Mostly I'm am still tweaking it, tiny bits. But it does what I need it to. It's very simple. It's only about 350 lines of frost. And it's it's very, very simple and fast. All it really does is pulls the feeds. You give it a list of feeds it, it pulls them down, and then saves a saves it in a feed file with

the status code last date, time a tag all that. So it's very simple, then it gives it back then it hands it over to the parser. In the process, if it sees a redirect file, sees or excuse me, if it sees a redirect from HTTP, it kicks that out as a separate file in a different folder. If it sees a three Oh, if it sees a permanent redirect, if it sees a 301 or 308. It writes that as a file separately, what does 308 mean?

Through a means? Permanent? It's a permanent redirect. That means the current hacked email, yeah, don't worry about it. No, I'll look it up. Yeah, look at the so these redirects get handled. So you follow the redirect? Obviously, you're you're being redirected. So you get the content. But if it's a permanent redirect, you really want to update the feed URL. Yeah, 3308 is permanent. 301 is just a redirect. Now three ones are permanent to permanent for two different

reasons. And the reasons are kind of subtle. I think, if I remember correctly, three weights are not nearly as common as three Oh, ones. It's it's a probably 100 to one ratio, if not more. But you so we write the redirect, file out, so that a script later can come through, read those redirect files and update the database accordingly. That redirect file is taking 10 times longer to write then the actual writing actual polar did

okay. Because it is fraught with decision making. Oh, that, you know, rules rules from the rule follower. Yeah, yeah. And so like back, if you're writing in the past, you know, have always written regular old RSS blog aggregators, and that it's easy. It's easy to handle redirects, and their HTTP is the law. That's the only thing that matters. So if and if you get if you get a 301 through an HTTP redirect, you just update the database and keep on chugging.

But in podcasting, oh, it's a it's a complete mess. Because what you have is a you have more you have directories that have identifiers. did expect they map an identifier out to a feed URL, and they expect that Oh, I see your outcome. Yeah, I see where it breaks. Yeah, you have to keep things in sync, right. So what, you know, iTunes number, you know, to 163489 on my URL for for that iTunes ID needs to match what Marco's ID right URL is right? Right.

Right, right and what apples is so and that's just one decision. So then it may here's here's a typical scenario. A redirect it hits a redirect, picks it up in the script has to do something along these lines. Look at the current URL, see if see if it's valid. Check them checked in valid I mean, like, see the discount XML content parses into a proper feed. Look at the new URL. Make sure it it does. So that there there's not some

phantom death there that's going on. Make sure both of them validate then go through and say, Okay, does this feed, have an iTunes ID? Okay, if it does ping the iTunes, ping Apple's API, and see what they say that the URL is, save that hang on to that value, then look into our database. And see if the URL that's being redirected to already exists as another feed ID. Likewise, we've, we've got the old one. And we've also picked up the the new one that's being redirected to as a new

feed. If that's the case, see if that one has an iTunes ID, if it does ping apples, if it's different ping Apple's API and see what that URL says, now you've got potentially four different URLs that you're going to have to make sense out of, if, if the conflicting, if the conflicting feed is not does not have an iTunes ID, ie kill it, mark it as a duplicate of the other one with a number pointing back to the original one. And

then repol, that feed, set the new URL, and you're done. If the other one does have an iTunes ID, and it matches this one, you can do the same thing. If it's got a different iTunes, Id just

bail and kick it out and make a fix it. This, there's this whole big mess of you know, and I was trying to figure this out and say, well, at the end of this, after all those things have happened, all those decisions are made between four different feeds, I can't even imagine what the possibility of things has to be looked at. Does a candy bar pop out of the slot at the bottom? Just munch on that, like, yes, it worked. Your Your reward

is ice cream. That so like I was explaining this on the on the Macedon? And I said, Well, you know, okay, so this is a very typical thing that would happen this scenario, the redirect, and the redirect says, Okay, you hit an anchor feed in it says, Okay, I'm redirecting you over to pod bean. Well, now, but I do have an iTunes ID, ping Apple. And Apple still shows the old anchor, knot pod bean. So what do you do? Do you do you set it as pod bean? Because clearly, the feed wants you over at pod

bean. But Apple says no, it's it's not its anchor. And so, you know, Marco, pipe, you know, he, he pitched in and said, Just keep it at anchor because he said, I've seen too many times that podcasters will set a redirect and then say, Oh, crap, I did. I wish I didn't do that. But how does that? How does that fit with? The source of truth is the feed? Well, because of this, seeing that that's where it gets

tricky, because the source of truth is the feed. But that's not what is telling you that isn't that's not what's giving you this information was lying nation, it's lying. was giving you the information is the server that serving the feed, which may not represent accurately the intent of the

podcaster. Oh, okay. Because think about iTunes, if you go, and let me just say this, I mean, in general, this is why we need to stop having Apple as the source of truth is because this this very, this, this Yeah, we need to go back to a scenario where HTTP is the rule is the law. And when it tells you to do something, you do it. Which, which is how the entire internet worked except for podcasting.

But if you say, like if a person goes and they leave, anchor and go to pod bean, or whatever, and then they figure out, oh, I still got some apps over here that are hitting anchor, well, I'm not going to change my, I'm not going to update my iTunes Connect or whatever it is, dashboard. I'm not going to change that, because I don't want to lose my followers in the old Apple podcast app versus the new one. So I'm just gonna it's

just, it's just such a mess. And so he's, he's right. I mean, and at the end, at the end of it all, if he has an iTunes ID in overcast, and we have an iTunes ID in the index, and we're both syncing together, those URLs need to be the same. So how do we how do we cut out a lot of this longer term? Good, man, I got no clue. I mean, we just keep on chugging, I guess, and keep on. Keep on trying to make things make the index as good as possible. So that

what can we ask Apple to do to make this go away? No, seriously. I'm serious and laughing about it, because I don't think they care. But I'm asking what the what what the ask would be? I don't even know. I mean, this, I don't think it's a model that can change. I mean, they're committed to it at this point. It's just a thing like that. That's the way their entire

system works. And they've, and they've recently changed it, you know, to put their IDs at even more central to their system, because they're centralized their aggregators, and it's not at the app level anymore. Yeah, I don't know, I don't think they can change. Right. But but if they, if they all of a sudden turned off their API, or said, You got to pay for it, or whatever, what we understand the overall implications, but part of that's

why we're here. How would that work with all these redirects and all that shit? Well, I II, would 50% of the universe be still happy? And then the other 50 would not. You know, it comes. You've got this layer on top, you've got this layer on top of HTTP. And that's, that's the problematic point is you have you say, you say, okay, my, my server is telling you to do one thing. And now but I'm going to go over to this other special dashboard in over there, I'm going to tell it

to do for you to do something different. And then like, I don't know, at that point, the results are undefined. Okay. So but it's certain servers that are redirecting incorrectly? Well, they've let you know. Here's what, let me give you an example. Here's what Spreaker does. If you evidently like stopped paying your bill, or I don't know, like delete your account or something not on it, you, you will get a redirect

from Spreaker. That redirects you to a Google search for the title of your podcast that used to be at that URL. Let me Google that for you. Now, it's exactly what it is. Yes. Which is kind of neat. Yeah, that's actually a good idea. But I mean, nobody's ever gonna see it because it's an aggregator, right. But, but that's the way like, that's the way Spreaker handles it. Anchor anchor appears to just change the feed in say, there's no longer a feed here. That's what

the text is of. I don't know everybody hands with different handles it differently. And I don't have a good solution for it. I mean, if there was, if there was a good solution for it, it had been thought of by now. But long term, it seems like most of the hosts do the redirects properly. I mean, I'm just saying is it do we need to do a blitz on podcast hosts so that we can solve some of this once and for all, if all podcast hosts, if all the podcast host? I guess you couldn't just this is not

a hosting. This is not a product, you're saying I see what you're saying. This is a podcast or problem. Because the podcasters don't understand. Most podcasters when they move, all they think about is is is when is changing it in iTunes. Or whether or not they should one ever bury the lead. You gave me all of you, Bear. Okay. You gave me this. And I appreciate it. I love understanding how this stuff works. But if you just said podcasters Don't be idiots.

You've got to redirect everywhere. That's something I can work with. Yeah, but that's that's not that's no fun for me. I gotta explain this. What else is my job here? Taking my role away. Dave Jones, are you kidding me? If DeVore ag dies before I do your it, man. We'll have Tina, we'll have Tina come in from time to time. Mo on deck. Do I have to drink one? Is that the is that the rule there? No. Only was Tina. Yeah. You're great. You're great podcast or

Dave Jones. You really are. Yeah, you have no idea how good you are? Well as to saying in the chat room, that pod paying is a good solution. That's not the only thing he's right. But if you combine also if you combine pod paying with the GUID Yeah, then we're in business. Yeah, that's the ultimacy in the GUI, a tag has been lost in the discussions

lately. But that's what it's meant to ultimately resolve is these kinds of issues that the good you is the good tag exists to eventually make it where the ecosystem can figure these conflicts out themselves rather than having to go back and Poland API for it. Ice Cube soup in the chat says we need a podcast feed health.com For podcaster to find out if they've screwed up. Let me tell you I agree that's a great idea. I mean, you have to know that it's so hard to live on the edge like this, I, you

know, I don't use a hosting company. So I am responsible for a lot of moving parts in my feed. And yeah, like, Wednesday, I published and I, instead of 2022, in the URL, it was 22 to two. And so you know, then the enclosures invalid. And then invariably, even though I changed my feed, it gets cached and it's, it's a huge pain. Yeah, so when we have these new experimental things, yeah. I mean, podcast feed health dot WTF, that would be that would that would be great for

promoting new features. Like all your feed is great. But it could be even better with chapters a value block. So you know, the podcast index page can do that itself. It can say, Ooh, that's interesting. That's interesting. Like you click a, click the button on the feed page, and it goes in and gives you like, this plain English, English explanation of

what's wrong. It says, Hey, everybody, you know, Apple says that you're in this feed is as ad anchor, but we looked, and it's pointing to pod bean. Right? You want to go fix this? Yeah. How about that? That'd be cool. Somebody read it? Is it done yet? Go read it. All of this work. All of this genius coming from my partner here is worth a few SATs, I'd say the only way we can fund this entire project, and here we are. Paying taxes on money we don't have.

That's the funnest part. That's the greatest part of this project. Yes. And it's all in the lightning node. It's all in the node in the servers baby. It's where it all is. Value for value. Now, we've talked a lot about it. Now's your chance to experience it for yourself. We prefer you to get a modern podcast app a new podcast apps calm and boost us big amounts but really it's the value that you determine that's the great part about it is whatever you think it's worth and that's very

subjective. You can also do it still through Fiat fun coupons air there's one coming in by going to podcast index.org down at the bottom. You can click on the PayPal button go to donate that way also there's an on chain. I should take a look and see if we got any on chain donations. Through tally coin. Hold on a second. Oh, I forget about on chain stuff. Yeah, I forgot one for Korean the keeper and Dame Jennifer has sent us like 23,000 SATs. My boys my boys.

Go on male You're fading and jump in here and save you. Yeah, you might have to say let me just see if we have anything over here. Podcasting. 2.0 Here we go. Well, yeah, we got the on the 19th of March t shirt time. I think we already got that we have that on the list. Is that was that? Was that through tally coin. I thought it was a lightning donation. It might be lightning. Which also works through tally coin. Okay. 305095 Yeah, that must be the t shirt.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, so yeah, that one. All right. Good. We're good. Should we Yeah, should we thank some people. Dave. I would love to thank some people. Yes, I mean that that might be my face. My face is one of mine. Marco $500. big baller PayPal big board. No, no. He's a he's a

kid centric baller. I don't know what how to say this there's a we can do we can do these together because Buzzsprout also came in with $500 Double Double I got to hit it shot 20 blades just makes me feel good they're both in the they're both in the in the Impala bouncing that's right ocean that's right shot kala. Thank you both very well, actually you thank all of you. Buzzsprout not just one day it's yes. You got to talk day my voice I would get some the drink.

Yeah, no, but we we appreciate that so much because that is the foundation. These these two donations each month have become the foundation of of what we're doing and then because their subscriptions and they they hit every month. Yes. Yeah, it takes to pressure off because we don't have to worry about whether it's gonna happen or not. No, it's fantastic and very much appreciated, which

is of course, part of living on the edge with podcasting. 2.0 with value for value is part of it is living on the edge, will we make rent? Because that's, I mean, that's the thing is like, that's all I ever care about. Cancer. Yeah, these get canceled at any moment. We don't know. I mean, you don't know. So that's, that's one of the reasons why we're, we're trying to build up enough money in the bank, to be able to run this for a while if

something really bad happened. And that's this makes it where these, those two donations make it. And rss.com comes in with donations a lot that are big, those donations make it to where we don't have to eat up every single bit of what we're doing with to cover the overhead the fees, the hosting fees, and lightning node and all that stuff. It allows us to have the extra to put in the bank for the for the future. And that that'd be we, me and Adam and I don't take any distributions. So

everything just stays in the business. That's why we talk about like, we're an LLC, I don't have it worse in other countries, but an LLC in the United States is a pass through. So that means when the company gets money that goes on your personal tax return, even if you don't, even if it's still in the bank and you never saw it, so we never see a dime but we still pay taxes on it. Anyway, this repeat really appreciates the podcasting 2.0 vow of poverty, Dave. Embrace it, embrace it.

I did get to claim about three grand of expenses on my taxes though, goes to Bitcoin. Yeah, no, you definitely get to deduct cool stuff. Yeah, so that that saved me a lot of money on taxes, but I still wasn't no, like 700 bucks. Yeah. ephors. Ever Ralphie Ralphie gave us $11.11 Ah, Rofi from Comcast coverage. Yep. Thank you, man. He's full. He says we are the all powerful diesel fueled freight train of freedom. coming through, keep it lit brothers. Lots of love. Ralphie.

This podcast is live live item tag. I love it. That's a good, that's a good acronym. I'm diggin that. All right, we got some loose. Yeah. Now, this was extremely confusing, because we had all those comments mixed in here. And you did a lot of cleanup. And I'm hoping I did it right. Because we had to merge two different two different sets of boosts in here. Just so what I did was anything that I could see appeared as a comment. And that was not specifically posted as a comment

as a booster gram, which I think was none of them. We just were leaving out. Most of them were 101 SATs for some reason, or 100 SATs. That seemed to be a consistent value. Yeah, yeah. So and it didn't matter if what what who was saying what? For against positive negative? We just left all of those out. Yeah. Because this is boosted ramps. Yep. Yeah. It was not an easy process. Stephen, he says again, I thought you guys were doing this to make curry rich.

Yeah, we're gonna do I'm gonna talk about that next time. That's, that's my pet peeve of this is nuts. Okay, back to booster grams. Macintosh gave us 100 SAS. And he says, Thanks for all you're doing. Thanks for all you're doing you to rock. Thank you. Thank you very much. We feel like we rock today. Yeah, rock, rock edge, boost boost. Braun of London 1948 19 1948 SAS. He's, uh, He's liking that. By far the hardest part of my relearning to code has been my experience setting up dev

environments. But once you get it, it works. Great. Yeah, thank you. And thank you for so I have not I did not dive into the into the dev environment yet. Daniel J. I'm going to just we just got really busy with stuff. But I don't want to stop the review of the new site. So I'll figure this out. See, oh, cotton gin. 3333 sets their carrier castering He says we did it. pew. Pew. Y'all are awesome. I love you. Thanks.

Thanks, cotton gin. Appreciate that brother and hope Stephen B. Says March 20 2018, march 2022. So we're a little bit late on this. He says Hey, Adam, can you wish my son Jack 12th birthday. Oh, we did that one. We did that week. So these were these were all live. I also left all the ones we did live because we read them on the on the show. No. So you already did the birthday. Yeah. Okay. I don't I have no recollection of that. Yeah, no, I, you know, this is this is a problem with

me. I remember some things so specifically, I can remember something from eight years ago, like read details. And I always remember the the notes. I don't I mean, like, it's like, I wasn't even there. I have no, it's okay. I remember I read it. So that's another reason why. Okay, well, did you read this one from Chad Pharaoh says yay, Gigi. Yes, he did. Okay, well, maybe let's see. What about this one? Pew pew mofos the features here I don't remember that. So I like it.

That was 50,000 SATs from PTR Yes, we did do that one. Oh when I was doing the list I took all those out and you merge them back in? I did I saw see this this so you can go to hold on a second because I also I just avoid that at all together. No, no, no, no, no see, but I did them. I did them in reverse order. Okay, I know that this one was on your list. This is good. Cotton Gin 22 to 22 he Magus row of ducks. Go podcasting exclamation point.

Yes. Now here's the interesting Yes, first of all, let me get you some ducks there brother. I have cotton gin tu tu tu tu tu curio caster and all I got is to go podcasting. I think that's because of the export. I don't have the fixed export. Yeah, I got I gotta push that up. Now did you get Dred Scott 35,690 Yeah, I don't know anything in podcasting. Oh, yes. I get though. Yes, yes, I did get them and then I also have you know, you're doing my bit. Oh, I'm sorry. He messed me up all

right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. I got a got away. Got away from me. It got away from me. It is a disaster. curse you. Comment Barrow. Chad Pharaoh says I've never rolled the dice in the bathroom but I have in the living room alone with the curtains closed. You never know who could be watching Yeah, man, that's the best one. Badass booster Graham. Roy. Oh Roy's Yeah, Elon baller boost Ed forth. I love ROI. I love ROI. You know, this is how this

one you and I were talking to ROI a couple of weeks ago. And the end whenever Dave and I are on with somebody I always say you know It's so disappointing. The Bitcoin industry doesn't do shit for us they never donate I remember that. I did I was there and I remember that unlike these boosts that I don't remember. I do remember that comment for some reason and then Roy immediately he gets it he's like yeah, should I should be boosted This is bullshit. Thank you very much.

And he has Gigi is King a little crown emoji? Yes, he does. 34,321 754321 beautiful number that's your number. Now that that is now the the breeze boost you're locking him in 321 is beautiful. He is the only one I've seen do that so far.

The aforementioned drips got boost of 35,696 with the fountain app says boost go podcasting Thank you drip and air statica falls that follows that up with 2376 through fountain ad says I love boosting for Bitcoin boost Thank you Eric drips go now these are these printed out double on my page so it's this is why I was so concerned about about you getting out of my out of my sequence because I'm sorry I'm

so sorry. Able to get back on No. Mary Oscar Mary. sent us 1000 SATs and you just as boost yo. Macintosh though we already read him I'm so screwed up this Do you see these? See what this is why I should not be given Adam advice on how to build a podcast or show prep software or how to do a spreadsheet or how to do a spreadsheet? Yes. Okay. SC OTT God sent us 20,420 SATs and he says hello guys testing the boost through breeze puff puff pass. Not sure what name comes through.

What came through SC OTT that works perfectly. Said Dale. He did. He did puff puff pass. puff puff pass. No, I forgot we had a jingle it's not a jingle This is an external microphone inserted directly into my bong. Okay, at the bottom is it a? You got a bung hole at the bottom? I put this mic in cartoner Bongbong hole. Okay, Dave Jones. Okay, stop before we kill again. Dale 2222 says I love supporting podcasts with Satoshis. I listened to a few other independent podcasts, but that I

currently support via Patreon. I was wondering if you have any advice and resources to share with them so they can get started on accepting lightning payments to assume zero knowledge of the cryptocurrency world value for value.io. There you go. Simple as that. Thank you, Dale. Appreciate it. Man. Merci. Oscar Mary, came back again with 1000 SATs. He says, Adam, you were right. We should have been showing

comments from the social interact tag here. I think we might have taken the running with scissors, he throws a bit too far. Although for what it is worth, there was a beta version of this available for two weeks, and we only received good feedback. So that's, I think that was a comment, but I wrote read it out anyway. Because, yeah, explanation. Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't know there was a beta and

doesn't matter. I can't I can't test everything. Well, and that that's also a good point about open source projects is just because it's open source doesn't mean just because it's open doesn't mean people are looking at it, you know, thoroughly. And, and that is always going to be an Achilles heel of open source is that sometimes, sometimes he will not put our balls on it when the game ends. And if I may, just so I just saw, this kind of goes back

to my point. If you have a feature, and you want to test that feature, you know, maybe send me an email and say, hey, I want to test this feature. And by the way, if you'd like it, could you talk about it? To leaving me out? Yes, it might have caused me to raise questions about it. But it also, you know, don't hesitate. I would say, Well, he did post it on the Mastadon. I mean, it was there. No, I know I understand. But this goes right back to it.

Okay, let's say this is a great feature. It's perfect. You want people to use it. Why wouldn't you reach out to a couple of podcasters with a large audience and ask them to use it? Oh, it's just posting on a mastodon is not a guarantee. It's it's like where's your ask? It's the same thing. See what you're saying? Yeah. That makes Yeah, that makes sense. It okay. I'm not Joe Rogan. I have a 10th of his audience. Maybe a little

more. Would you consider asking Joe Rogan to try it out? That's my point. Cast peatland. 100 once asked, and he says a nice show. Thanks. Thank you. Yes. Hard Hat 11,011 sets to Curia. castering says I'm spewing SATs, rolling the dice spewing SATs. Yeah, we hear Yeah. Be my brown mozzie 101 SATs and he says Don't just stand there boost for the BTC conversation with a GG Don't just stand there. Boost. Oh, John's BRT says 101 says he says balance

comment. Oh, that was a comment. Well, what the balance was coming. Yeah. How big was it? 101 said so because you know, even though we talked about it, Alex Gates did indeed. Do a he did a balance. Boost. Yeah, his app was bash boost. Oh, is that bash boost? Yeah, that's the that the CLI one of the command one of the command line tools giving myself so. And so he sent 250,000 sets of Alex. Yes. Yeah, yeah, that was during the show. Yeah, just

yeah, just the bounce. I just wanted to just want to bring it up again. I thought it was bad as Alex said he hand wrote it. He wrote that whole I guess he wrote the TLV and everything but Oh, really? Just on one line? No. No, you can do it. You just got the ball? Basketball, basketball, or is what that is you kidding me? Look in the look in the hell had a burrito. And there's an example of how to how to send a one liner the command to do a whole thing. Yeah.

That's pretty cool. That's one of those things you want to do. You know, bang whatever. No just or just up arrow all the time. That's funny, don't ya history grip Ellen CLR Yes, history history. grep is my favorite. Don't just see by now that's already read that. Oh, amen. I'm got me on the wrong page. Let's see, Dred Scott 10,035 sets and he says one more than Darrin and two more than CSB boost. Yeah. I like this. We read that one too.

We did last week. Wait, the date on that is the date on that is 18. March the 19th? At 4:03pm? Huh. Curious, interesting. I remember I remember the one more than Darren maybe someone else did that as well. Oh, I think that was somebody else. Yeah, that's because that was CSB. See, I did one more than Darrin and then now now drab is doing one more than Decius baby so as to more than a

couple of things here. We have we have new T shirts. Which now the the podcasting 2.0 certified t shirt is only available for donors. And what is $125 we put a new limit on this for the shipping and handling. Yeah, because the shipping is very expensive, expensive and it's a better quality t shirt and costing us more podcast index dot shop. And there's also some other fine products they're putting together that's the no agenda

shop team. And and we have no contracts or anything we just order order the T shirts from them and anything else they do that that they make money on those those send a donation in. Like are you even in the index, bro, which still makes me laugh It's very fun. And was there something else? Oh, no, that was that was the main thing I want to say about that. Let's see. 101 says greetings from the road from Nomad Joe Jones. Greetings careful man don't don't boost while driving.

Sir bill says I can confirm I'm not drips got boost. Yes, identity confirmed. That rumor has been squashed in vif this in for Vieques says boosting episode 78 from pod friend boost. Boost 500 cents. Thank you thank you in for VX. Mere Mortals podcast button one sets and he says he says he says I'm more of an open air deicers you know what I mean? I feel like the shape and form of the

dice are a natural thing. It shouldn't be hidden away. I'm actually thinking of joining a nudist dice colony to free myself from the shackles of societal stigma boost their dicer okay, and you're nuts do love them. I love their show Bowie 101 sets through fountain from Oh also from Karen and I don't Did you see this? I don't know yet announced wonder shows wound are shown. No no, that doesn't what it says it Yeah, Buddha shown. I gotta it's some for some reason it came in the Unicode Yeah, the

UN code didn't work. So I'm seeing a backslash and then two O's with a use as an OOM loud, so I'm going to save Wondershare in which means Beautiful. Okay, so there's one wonder tion is under shown shown Wonderstone that Wonderstone there GG if I also didn't get their GG part only got Wondershare I guess I may have just insulted GG into no end with without intention. So I thought I think he's fine. And the delimiter CSB comes through blogger for 15,033 says

through cast ematic and he says howdy podcasting 2.0 team. Oh, that's that's sort of text and how they podcast 2.0 team and your listeners are invited to a bi weekly podcast named ai ai cooking, spoken by Gregory William Forsythe Foreman from kin new episode 27 dropping this weekend yo yo boost boost boosts. Then we have a couple of fresh boosts

from the live from the lit from our from our lit podcast. We just got a couple of 333 boosts in a row then we have 3332 from cotton gin who says go podcasting 500 SAS from Sir Sean of Allegheny Valley no note there sir Spencer 1009 SATs and Sir Spencer says 3% is not an outrageous free fee. If it's not a lightning routing fee. lol Oh lol come on you silly dog. I

love that we we can disagree and we still love humor. called acid it's our duty to boost he says 333 Then we have a boob from blueberry 808 Thanks again day for swapping our feed for BTS to the new one armed with a live tag in one hand and a pair of scissors in the other. This is a new live son of a bitch i like it what is BTS? Oh like that? What is what

what is BTS? That was the name of the show BTS was it stand behind this game behind force 3333 from Sir Spencer, able Kirby and I will be evangelizing, evangelizing podcasting 2.0 and other digital content over value for value at the Kansas City Bitcoin block party in Westport and April 24 There'll be music food, live music food and drink and vendors all selling their wares exclusively in Bitcoin oh there

you go. Thank you very much. Excellent it's kind of interesting if this if this was posted as a comment it would be seen as advertising it is advertising I know but it's not it's a booster Graham it's part of the deal. You get to you get to skirt and you get to shade you get to hide in the shade. Yeah, we can be pretty open about it. I got an across one kind of problem with that 3369 From NATO's doing my duty boosting for humanity. And let's see we had another from cotton

gin 3333 were lit fire emoji. And we did have a couple more I see here. I got a couple more 200 from Sir Allegheny sir Sean of the Allegheny Valley boosting again and his 1000 SATs for his

first first boost. I think he just figured it out. And then we have cold acid 33 333 So 33,333 SATs we are still looking for translators and beta testers for podcast generator generator three.to Visit trans effects.com/podcast-generators/podcast.test generator that's got to be wrong also github.com/podcast generator it's something that must be something with the how he did that is a command line boost I think he I think he doubled that anyway this is where it would be handy to

surface this little button click I'm clicking on the button that surfaces this booster GRAHAM Well, it'll be he put in showed us that link in the shin. Yeah, I will. But I'm just I'm just realizing that something that I always want when when when we're doing no agenda and someone says he put this link in so I have to remember that I have to go back

copied from the spreadsheet put it into the show notes. Whereas if I could just click on a on a on a boost and it then became part of the show notes or just pub or just public I mean even if it's just public the he said call this How about this called as a horrible horrible Eric. That's is Chris barbaric. And he says that is right. The URL www dot trans effects comm slash podcast dash generator slash podcast best generator. Oh, that's it. Oh,

really? Okay. Yeah. Oh, he said I nailed it. Down. All right. I should. I was already editing it. Okay, you got it. I'll put it in the show notes. We get some month lease. Yes. Thank you all very much, everybody for producing, boosting for humanity. Boost for human. I can't get that. I can't not hear that. Keith Gibson $50 Thank you, Keith. Pod news. $50. Thank you. Thank you very much, James.

Thank you very much, James. Appreciate that. Paul Paul Erskine $11.14 Dwayne Goldy $8. Michael Gagan $5 Charles current $5 Yeah. Cone glotzbach $5 Christopher Raymer $10 James Sullivan $10 Sean McCune $20 Thank you Shawn Jordan dunville $10 and Stu coats $6.66 Thank you everybody. Yes. Listen to you man. Like a little DJ there. Thank you for hanging around for my show. You do have a good DJ named Dave Jones rockin Z 100 Dave Jones in the morning with you everybody. How you doing?

For 230 We're gonna start the mix. See, see he can do it. Ladies and gentlemen. I knew it. I knew it. Did you do college radio? No, I didn't do college. Here we are. To value for value college dropouts. Hello Steve Jobs and was at four different majors and then called it a quit Once was running the station and called it quits. Alright brother, so we'll figure it out. Maybe do it Thursday night for the next board meeting just to get one in before I go on the

vacation. Yeah, let's do it. Okay, perfect. All right, man. Have a great weekend. It was. Thank you so much, Dave. I really appreciate just chatting this shit through with you. And I hope everyone else did. Yeah, absolutely, man. Well, yeah, well, we'll hit one Thursday night. Always love it. Okay. All right, everybody. That's it for our board meeting podcasting. 2.0 We will return next week, maybe a little bit early. Please join us for the board meeting of podcasting 2.0.

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