Episode 78: Dice in the Can

podcasting 2.0 for March 18 2020 to Episode 78 It's go go with GG we have a guest it's so big put him in the title of the show. Got to say something. Hello everybody. Welcome to podcasting. 2.0 The official board meeting of everything that's going on with podcasting to board. Oh, specifically the podcast namespace podcast. index.org. And of course, where we all hang out at podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country. And in Alabama. He's

always game for a submarine swap. My friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones. I like that one. Yeah, like it's like the year you get the stick up the road of vocal cords. So you get the fright. I get the frog a little fry happening. Every now and then you go to rumble going. We'll also have the new that was it right there. I know. It's really messed up because you know, and everyone's

sending me all these. Well, you've got to take, you know the left nut of a honeybee and squish it out and add it to all this stuff that has to be done this like, first day. Everyone's been really, really helpful, but it's I don't know it's honeybee nuts. Very, very difficult to get to. Very, very hard to see. To get to. Oh my goodness. How you doing Dave? I'm good. Let me let me just say that the pro tip. The Sharpie s Gil, what is this? Yeah, Sharpie SGL point seven 0.7 pin. This is

top notch hardware. Let me tell you Oh, really? No, I will say I'm a pen aficionado. So it's the Sharpie. S dash Jill s 0.7 0.7 Yet I'm right now I'm using a uni ball. signo RT also 0.7. So yes, I am a 0.7 kind of girl. I enjoy that. I enjoy the 00 always game for a good Penn for sure. But your hectic, right, yeah, this is the worst time for you because of your your day job where you got stuff happening because

of the tax time. Yeah, we're I'm in the tax industry. Dave works for the IRS, I think. Yeah, that's a different show. No, if that? No, we're not. I'm good. I'm good. It was a little hectic getting getting out of the office to come to the show. But all right, right now. So I want to start by thanking Daniel J. Lewis for taking a very courageous step and a stab at creating a new website for podcasts. index.org. I could not be more delighted.

Can we say that this courageous? Not because of the technical difficulty, but because of of all the because of the potential input that he's making a lie? Yeah. Well, no, not just that. I mean, just just to go ahead and do it. And yeah, it, you know, just to do Oh, yes, for all those reasons. Now, he had promised it, and I actually had screenshot. I remember some thread while back several months ago. And he's like, Yeah, we need this. I said, Well, why

don't you do it? And he did it. And he did it. And I screenshot that I'm like, let's see if because I can always go back. And if someone bitches about this, uh, Hey, man, you said you would do. And I never need to pull it out. Because he did it. And he intuitively he did all the right things, I think, you know, with with three sections. I mean, there's, there's things that I'll have input on, but this is my problem is, how do I

actually see what the website will look like? You know, it's like, and I can, I can figure out where to make changes in code, I guess I could figure that out, I, you know, or suggestions or whatever. It's just, I can't really see the whole thing rendered. I want to see where all the links go to all that stuff. It depends what do you I don't want to just do something for you that you would rather do yourself. So I mean, if you rather do it yourself, I can show you how to set up the dev

environment. It's not what is hard. What is the easiest thing for me because basically, I just need to see this thing. So that I can say, Okay, on this page, you know, here's a suggestion or here's a change. If it's if I can then switch to something and find that copy in the I guess in in a clone and then make that and and then see that rendered Is that how that would work. Is that after you have react or whatever?

Yeah, so what you would do is you would get client Yeah, you would do a git clone and down to your via to him directly on your machine. How about this? Dave Jones? Yes, when you have some time alright, I'm here all week everybody good, nice. If you teach me how to fish you know, I'll eat for life. So I'm willing to learn it. I don't think it should be that hard. I mean, I've done gits before git clone. I just need to know how to set it up.

So if you maybe someone else can help me set it up. And why is there no one in the chat room? What is going on here? Well, I haven't. I'm currently typing out. The we're live now show episode. See? Showtime? Well, of course, we had the we said we were started at 1230. That's what I just put it in there. Yeah, I put it in there. Like, I didn't know that. Oh, here we go. Oh, no, I'm back. I think I think maybe something was wrong. My IRC client. Okay.

All right. Now, let me open up heli pad. So we can get live booster grams, which is the whole point of the exercise? Well, this is this is the most discombobulated start to a show that we've had in a while. But anyway, back back to the website, just a couple of things I want to mention. And I already told Daniel said, I'm going to I'm going to talk to you about this, you know, in general, the language instead of we're doing this, we're making podcasting

better. I prefer we made podcasting better. Like because we did it stopped making it sound like a project were a thing. And we're proud. It's not a process. It's done. Yeah. Well, it's an ongoing process. But yeah, it's done. We made podcasting, better gears, what it means to you. And the things I'm missing is backwards compatible with 1.0. That's just an export explanatory thing. And value for value. Streaming payments needs to be prominently featured. And I have ideas about that, which I

can work with Daniel on, because people are coming for that. So they're coming for a whole bunch of things, but now it's hidden. Now, it's just a line item under chapters, and it's much bigger than just a line item under chapters. Those are the main things otherwise, I think he's on a dynamite path, saying, Yeah, I really do. I really do. I don't I don't know. I mean, I'm not sure. Did we talk about that? Because he seemed to pick up on the three ask sort of the three angles bit.

We must have discussed it a long time ago on the show. I'm thinking it's not naturally natural. We talk yeah. And it's it's exactly natural. And what I would like is, you know, so what did you have as the as the slogan, we're making podcasting better? So I'd like everyone to take a stab at a snappy thing, you know, a snappy slogan, everybody can try it out. You know, so my initial just my initial feeling is not only that, but everything should be we've made podcasting better.

Here's here's, you know, it's here. It's this is it. Just the whole vibe has to be we've done it. Welcome. We're glad we're glad you finally showed up. Where have you been? We've made podcasting better and you can do. Okay, Dave? Yeah. I'll do the marketing. Okay, maybe not. You and Daniel work together. But, um, again, I just want to say how incredibly grateful I am

that Daniel pick that up. You just did it. And and I know, he worked for a couple days on it. You know, that's some real work there. That and I love that aspect of, of open source. We had a good death meeting this week. Yeah. Oh, yes. Do tell. Do tell. Yeah. No, it was it was we talked about a lot of stuff. Mostly around the social interact tag. And is this where you all decided that we're going to use booster grandmas comments instead? No, no, no, no.

I'm being I'm being facetious Dave for a reason. Oh, okay. Well, the we we basically just had to tighten up the spec because the, the spec has sort of been well, I mean, the spec has written was not was written back in August of 21. Is that Yeah, that was long time ago. And it really has just been sort of like, tweaked a little bit here and there to fit what's

been happening the trajectory, but it hasn't kept. It just really needs to be rewritten from kind of from scratch not not that it's going to be changed demonstrably but very much but we just as a group just decided, okay, what's, what's important here? What can we drop? What how do we bring it up to speed with what's happening right now? And then so we came, we're gonna drop platform out of there, we're gonna drop a whole

bunch of this, this huge list of supported platforms. I mean, there's a list of like 20 things in there, we're going to drop all that kind of jazz out. And just focus on trying to formalize social interact as a thing first, and then focus on the protocols that are in use activity, pub, lightning, and Twitter. And so because those are the things that are currently actively being used, so let's just let's just take what's actively being used work on, on, for getting a formal,

you know, definition that works for those three things. And those three things are different enough to where, if anything else comes along, if those three things can fit without too much modification, then probably anything else can do. But we're not going to muddy the water just the same way we did with the value value spec where we made it broad enough to where

you could fit in anything. But for now, we're just going to focus on lightning, because you know, we can't solve all the world's issues for every little niche user kit use case. Now when you say solve it for lightning. What does that mean? Well, I mean, I mean, I mean that in reference to the value blog. Oh, come Oh, yeah. Because well, let me get this off my chest. You were grumpy last week, by the way. Last week? Yeah. Last

Year with John. Oh, no, you were great. You were grumpy about comments. I'm still grumpy about comments. And I'll tell you why. Cool. So I have now heard James Kirtland twice. And quite an extended segment on pod land. Talk about activity. I'm paraphrasing, but here's what he's saying in 25 minutes. Activity Pub is too complicated. I couldn't figure it out. I really love what fountain is doing. Let's just use booster Graham's for comments. And apparently Fountain has implemented this.

I'm not sure. I haven't seen it yet. Yeah. Okay. I take his issue with this for a couple of reasons. One, it's very rude to just say, Hey, I'm we're doing it this way when people have been working for a year and a half on creating this system. Now that's neither here nor there. But it brings into play things that we've discussed many times. And I thought we had some consensus on which is paying for comments is kind of uncool. Particularly if it's being sold as Hey, you'll make some extra

money with this. Which brings me to two other points one, well, the technical one we'll get to in a second, my personal belief is, you have now hijacked something that can actually make people money and turned into a cheap horse for comments. And it's a bad idea, because value for value is something very specific. And very few people have actually tried to do the value for value pitch with their audience. And it works quite fine here. People are boosting hundreds of 1000s of sets to us.

But now you've cheapened it down to it's really just a mechanism to post something and you can do 10 sets or five sets. And you're you're kind of wrecking the whole idea. Then there's the technical argument, which we'll have our guests comment on, as we have a guest in the boardroom today. And that is a part technical, because jamming stuff into TLV records is actually a hack, and everybody knows it, too. And I am in the ROI from breeze camp on this, that let's just leave lightning payment

network. And let's not replace things like web 3.0 type deal. Because you're gonna bloat stuff. And I just think it's it's cleaner to leave. Lightning is a payment network that you can integrate into everything. And then there's it's not really decentralized. Chose a whole you know, for your comment. You can't moderate your comp comment anymore. There's a whole bunch of things that we discussed ad nauseum going through the spec

for activity pub, that just got thrown out. And then fountain implemented this and Cleveland's promoting it like a fork and it just, it made me grumpy. It made me grumpy. I've got thoughts on that yet. Please see my thoughts or it doesn't. It doesn't bother me of four. It doesn't bother me for a couple of reasons. Number one, I don't think it's really

competitive. With activity pub comments at all, because activity Pub is, is just the language, that is the language of a chat system, or a messaging system that already has wide extensive reach. So, an activity Pub is still going to be the focus for what most of commenting across cross app comments, do. I think the lightning side of things. Um, except I'm accepting of it for this reason. I think it's, it's

going to be limited enough. That what what you're going to see, let me let me try to explain this when we come in from different angle. The, there's, we know that when it comes to message quality, and that's subjective, I understand that. But I think there are some, some general, you know, things we can all agree on about what's what is spam, what's a high quality message, what's not, when it comes to quality message

quality, there are like they're sort of layers. I mean, you have the sort of bargain basement, which is, which is email sends out a bazillion trillions of spam messages a day. It's cheap, it's easy, it's just a lot of its garbage, you have Reddit threads, which again, there's it's a low friction entry point, it's it's garbage, or a lot of it is and you sort of kind of go

up the chain from there. And if you go up to activity pub, now you're talking about, there's a little bit of, there's some technical prowess that has to enter into the picture in order to join the fediverse, or whatever you want to call it. Then, as you kind of go up the chain, he could say that lightning at currently at least is sort of at the beginning at the top of that chain, for services for message quality, because it requires a lot of technical entry, a lot of

technical expertise to get into it. And so I'm think I think they stand at different layers in the in the pile there. And activity Pub is, is always going to be the more the broader thing. Light lightning is a thing that I'm okay with existing for lightning comments. As long as everybody understands that there are big drawbacks. And I think everybody after, like after the dev meeting, I think everybody understands what

those drawbacks are. So Alex entered into the conversation and said, he made this exact point, he said, you know, hey, it's important that everybody remembers, there's some big, there's some big issues here. It's not necessarily that you have to pay, although that is, you know, that is a thing. But also, there are problems with TLVs. Exactly, like you just said, it's not unlimited in size. It's, it's got a cost to

the network. There's also the problem with authentication and identity verification, you don't know who sent you this message, and you can't verify it currently. So that's something that's going to have to be worked on. And actually, offline, Alex and I were throwing around some ideas on how to solve that problem. This just this past week. Okay, so I missed an entire dev meeting where this did come up. Yes, it definitely did come up. It definitely did come. And, um,

I think that it's good. That that's, you know, I think I think James is complaining about the complexity of activity. Yes. Yeah. That late, late in the game? Because yeah, he's not he's not even using thread cap yet, which is John's Barlow. Also, I wanted to say one thing, because I do. Here's what here's what I appreciate about this whole situation. We have users who are using something. And if anything, we're bad at listening to users. And those users can be users who use apps and enjoy

podcasts or podcasters. So when I see this, I'm very cognizant that hey, here's a user doing something on his on his or her own accord. We need to pay attention to that. So So while I don't like it, I feel it's very important that we discuss it. So I'm glad that this came up and I guess there's some kind of consensus Oh, we are getting a boost to grams by the way, but

only from only from breeze. I think. I've asked him to take a look but I think that the LNP stuff just locks up when too many people are trying to send I don't mean to shut Yeah, I have nothing. I have nothing from Elon pay. Anyway, from the technical side, I can tell you that there's going to be a lot of jihad about doing this in to V's but we already have that a little bit. Yeah, I mean, we've we've we broke that. We broke that brain

a long time ago. Well, the thing about the thing about the Well, the thing about lightning, it comments is people just have to have to understand that that's never let me take away the word never. That is that is a much harder barrier to entry over activity pub. And for that one reason alone. It's not going to be is as wildly popular. Like, it's just too it's just too

difficult. So how, let's say let's just pick RSS comm. If they want to sport cross app commenting route posts for all their podcasters out of the box, there's no way they're going to do it through lightning. No, they can't. And so the activity Pub is the way to go for that. Now, if James uses, if he starts using thread cap, John Spurlock's latest thing it, it, D obfuscates as he sees me it obfuscates all of this, you just basically point it at a at a social interact tag URL, and it

literally just sucks the entire thing out. It doesn't matter if it's in Twitter and lightning comments or activity pub or any of that stuff. Like it's dead simple. Why don't we bring in our guests since we've been yapping together for 20 minutes quite rudely? No, we have a guest Yes. We do have a guest from an undisclosed location. Ladies and gentlemen, no one knows what it looks like. But he is famous everywhere on the interwebs please welcome the one and only dare GG Hey,

guys. Thanks for having me to do a little more enthusiasm this like always like we're all hyped up like Hey, guys, the Masked Singer here Come on, man. It's a little disconcerting sitting across the boardroom table from thrive from math. Yes, it's very hot in the suit. So it's very hard to green suit. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Gigi, you are you are a legend on the internet. Certainly well known for your writing. Well known for your your Bitcoin

maximalism. Would you? Like? How would you describe yourself to introduce yourself? To the uninitiated? Yeah, I'm probably best described as a Bitcoin on. That's how I would classify myself. I don't necessarily agree with the, you know, like toxic maximalists label and so on. It's, it's something that was adopted by Bitcoiners. Over time, but it started from, from the shit coin crowd, you know,

it was used as an insult almost. But anyway, I actually I, I would like to kind of, say one or two things about common issues and so on. Yes, because I agree with a lot of what you said the day, but it's, it's obvious that those kinds of systems always run into the same issues. And two of the things you already mentioned, it's like, do you want to have spam protection? And if you have spam protection, how do you do this? And there are two ways to solve this problem, kind of one of

them is like, make make people pay for it. So that you get rid of like the spam farms, millions of comments, because it was just, you know, like, it's an economic problem, almost. It's like, what is your return on investment wish to spam. And if you with every comment, if it costs like a fraction of a penny, then, you know, like you, you might kill all the spam

farms and the spam bots and the bot armies immediately. And it's also related to identity, as you mentioned, you know, like you you want to have system, this resistance to civil attacks, you don't want to have like, and what Adam just mentioned, you know, you want to have some moderation, maybe, you know, it depends on, like, how you how you want to play this, and if you have moderation, it's no use to, you know, delete a comment

by someone or disable an account. And it's very, very easy to spin up like a million new accounts, you know, like, that's, I think, I think that the nature of of these systems is such that you always run into these problems. And so, I think, the comment I wanted to make is that you mentioned that the barrier to entry to use lightning comments is very high. And I I kind of agree, but the alternative is to have an account somewhere, you know, like have some some system that

is permissioned. And you you create an account, and then you have an identity, and then you can use the comment system, you know, and lightning kind of solves this in a roundabout way, so to speak, where your identity is tied to Your lightning wallet and you pay for the comment, which is kind of one kind of spam protection. So I'm just I'm just trying to say, you know, like, it's it's trade offs all the way down. And I don't think there is a one size fits all solution.

Yeah. And I think that the barrier, the barrier to entry thing is going to lessen over time. But I am skeptical that the, because you hear this a lot, you hear that? Or not a lot, maybe that you hear that, if you have to pay for comments that you get a higher quality. And I, I agree with that from a spam farm perspective, where you have just massive amounts of Viagra spam going out into the world. But there's another layer of sort of low quality commenting that doesn't really

get dealt with when it comes to that. And that's just sort of troll type comments. Because if, if a comment only calls you one sad, it's really not a bear. You know, if you recall here, the way sphinx chat does it, which I was always enamored by, is they had a staking system. So it would be like you would for each comment, you would stake 100 SATs. And after several hours that 100 SATs would come back, if you turned out to be a spammer then you would lose it.

Yeah, yeah, that's it. That's an interesting. Yeah, like, that was a little that was a little different than than just paying for something. Yes, a small amount? Well, that, you know, when it comes to this, you know, the challenge we've had the last really few weeks. And this is another barrier to entry is. And it's a little bit off topic. But is, is getting people up and running with lightning. Me because what we want, obviously, you know, all of us want is

people to have their own keys. Yeah, we want noncustodial we want people to have their own keys. The the good solution for that is something like an Umbral. But lately that has been a real challenge did the tour that Tor network is not holding up, it's into the bargain on this old thing. It is these

these Tor channels are falling down. They're unreliable, like it's it's taking, you know, days and days just to get somebody with a number up and running, where they can receive where they can receive payments. And I will and I wonder if this is, it seems like and Gigi, maybe you have some view on this, but it seems like channel opens? They're either good or or you're going to wait and you may have to wait a long time and then the graph doesn't get

updated. Something's failing somewhere. And it may be LMD. related. I don't know. Yeah, I don't think we have to differentiate. I'm sorry, I think I might have a little bit of a lag. But I think we have to differentiate between multiple things. Because as you pointed out, we want users to hold their own keys, which means that they have noncustodial access to the funds. Because as we can observe what's currently happening in the world, everyone is getting D

platformed. Users, companies, whole country countries, baby whole countries. In the monitor, yeah, there you go. And being D platformed. In a in a monetary sense. It's like an existential threat. And we obviously want to move away from that. And I think all of that is related, you know, like you, if you want to be censorship resistant, it means that you kind of have to adopt the responsibility of doing it yourself and

withholding your keys. That's kind of easy, you know, like you write down 12 words in the Bitcoin world and, and that's it. With running your own node, it's already a bit more of a hassle. And this is where Ember umbrella comes in, you know, umbrella makes this way, way easier than it was before. And other full node solutions, like recipe Blitz, and others exist as well. So I think we're on a good path there of making this easier for people to kind of host their own critical

infrastructure. But the problem currently with lightning is that managing channels and managing liquidity is a big challenge still, because lightning is so young, and we as like, technical community, we still have to figure out how to do this

properly. And again, like this is not it's not only about solving technical problems, these are also economic problems and this is why currently lightning service providers and those kinds of service based solutions are popping up where just like with internet service providers, you don't have to take care about a lot of the you know nitty gritty technical details, but you can just use someone else's service to to access lightning so to speak, or to access liquidity but this

again, you know, like it all. It always comes down to the same issue. Once you rely on a on an external service. You have a trusted third party that Yeah, can interfere with the things you want to do. Yeah, I think so. Let me sort of go sideways here for a second.

The, the idea you brought up, you know, sort of toxic this Bitcoin maximalism, and I want to talk about that idea for a while, but you know, in a kind of want to start in a specific way, the there is something that, that we've been thinking and talking about, and I say, we are talking about me, me and Alex, we've kind of been going back and forth on this on text message and stuff. Is there. There's this notion of, clearly bitcoin is, is in the lead, so to speak, like it is, it's the

only thing the way I see it. And the way I think many many people see it within within halls of power even is that it it is the thing, it is the digital currency, or the digital crypto crypto coin, so to speak, that most closely look resembles

money. You look at other things like Aetherium and other blockchain based you know, coins, shit coins, all coins, whatever gonna call them, you look at those things, and they don't, they have function, they have utility, they, they may be good at distributed apps, they may be good at do, they may be good at things, but they're not. They don't have the the properties that we closely associate with what a money is.

So for that, for that standpoint, Bitcoin is clearly in the lead when it comes to a possible digital accepted digital currency. And I think we all hope that it gets to that point. But then in order to get there, there's some things that seem to have to happen. And those are the things that give

you a little bit of unease. Like I expressed it to Alex last night, I said, Well, you know, I often have this sort of Darwin's dilemma where I think in the back of my mind you know, this is fantastic that we're gonna get this you know, it looks like a real possibility that we could get an accept Bitcoin accepted in the halls of government around the world as an as as

valid programmable money. But then at the same time, I think back and I'm like, well, in order to get there are we going to have to do things like, like wasabi wallet is having to do right now, which is distancing itself start filtering UTX O's distancing itself from from, from anything that looks like criminal activity. And in the process, what we've done is we've, we've unwittingly ushered in the era of the cashless

society and the currency surveillance state. Like do you have any thoughts on that? I have a lot of thoughts on that. I know for us the wasabi here for a lot of people out you know, it really did I don't know I don't know what it was I understand what unspent UTX owes are but what what exactly was wasabi doing? Because I missed that. You go, you go.

Alright, yeah, go for it. Okay, I just Just for the record, you know, here I thought we were going to talk about the freedom of value and the value for value of the of the chairs but the end game to talk about VidCon maximalism coin join wasabi stuff and so on, like, but it's okay, let me start out with saying that all of it is very kind of complicated, because Bitcoin and especially Bitcoin privacy is complicated. So,

alright. Bitcoin, as everyone should know, is nothing but a public ledger, you know, like it's a list of transactions and everyone can look at them and verify them. This is also why Bitcoin is so important because it's transparent, and you can,

it all kind of relates to each other. It's like this, this Gordian knot of multiple things and also the verification part that the fact that you can run a Bitcoin node, it all it all is required to have this fixed limit of 21 million and I think, you know, I know I will go now on a long tangent, but I think all of this is very important. So the idea of Bitcoin is to separate money from state and day if you just mentioned that.

Bitcoin, it's great that you know, Bitcoin might get government acceptance and so on. The point is, bitcoin does need government acceptance, Bitcoin works, whether it is accepted by governments or not, you can use Bitcoin right now. And so, essentially, Bitcoin is gray market, black market money if Bitcoin doesn't work on the black market, Bitcoin doesn't work at all. That's that's the whole idea. The problem has become privacy's, that it's a completely transparent ledger.

So if your activity on the Bitcoin network can be related to your real identity, then you can also be tracked there are ways to circumvent this you can and think about it a little bit like encryption, even though like that analogy breaks down really quickly, but it's like, if you, if you enter into an encrypted communication with someone, even though other people can see that this encrypted messages are sent back and forth, they cannot read them, you know, like, that's it's an it's, it's,

they can still follow the trail, which is exactly what NSA does just follow, follow who's connected to who, right, that is true, like you, you can still have some access to metadata and so on, like, all of that is true. But in Bitcoin, it's like, you can, you can make use of certain technique, which is, which is usually called contracts, I like to refer to them as collaborative transactions, because that's

what they are. So you come together, usually when you do a Bitcoin transaction, and now we're going to get technical, all your inputs are controlled by the same party. So Bitcoin has this ut EXO system, again, it comes back to two, validation and verification. So the whole Bitcoin network, since the first block, since block zero, since the Genesis block, you can analyze, and it's basically this big tree, you know, like, it's like a big tree structure. And every single Bitcoin transaction

creates like a new branch. And we call the leaves of these branches, UTX O is short for unspent transaction outputs. So it is it is basically the money in your pocket, the money that you have not spent yet, and the Bitcoin leaves a trail of all the spendings. So you can see where the money went. And this is terribly important, because you have to make sure that there are not more than 21 million bitcoins in existence, you're

not like this, all of it hangs together. So so this is the root of the problem, kind of, alright, so what do you do in this transparent system, you come together, and you create a collaborative transaction. And this, you can, you can, basically, and okay, take this analogy with a large grain of salt, but it's, it's basically, let's say, you all have a $1 bill. And let's say magically, you can trace these these $1

bills. And, and so you all come together, and you throw the $1 bills into a big pot, and everyone knows that I threw a $1 bill in, and you take out another $1 Bill, that's basically a contract. So you all come together, and you, you, you smelt the UTX O's together, and you get the same back more or less minus a fee. And then your, your past the past few bitcoin is cleared. It's very much like cleaning your browser history basically, like if you want to think about it in a really

stupid way. Alright. So wasabi, and another big implementation summarize, what they offer is like a coordination service. So it's not, it's not a they're they're not the money transmitter. Because coin join. Creating a coin is not an economic problem. It's like a coordination problem. You have to bring people together that want to do this and want to create this collaborative transactions. It's like, it's like coordinating a ring of fire.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And, and that's why Lightning Network plus, or whatever it's called sites like this exists, where you can, you can announce that you want to create a ring of fire, and it should have five participants, and these are the conditions and so on. And everyone signs up and says, Yeah, I want to participate. And once everyone is together, you

can do it. And that's it. And, like, we had legal precedents of those kinds of issues, it's very much like the Pirate Bay is not the final cost, you know, like, it's just linking to other things. And this is relevant, because wasabi, and samurai are centralized coordinators. So they are coordinating coin join rounds, but they're, they're not touching any money ever. And currently, especially in the European Union, and in other

countries, as well. But there are regulations being worked out that want to kind of classify all kinds of things as money transmitters that want to impose, right, there's your proper KYC and AML laws on those kinds of services. You know, it's, it's, it's like you forgot to pick another example. You can do conjoint coordination on an IRC server, you know, like, you can automate this and you just post messages to an IRC server.

And it's the same, it's the same thing. And so what, what governments want to do is like, outlaw these kinds of messages and outlaw these kinds of coordinations and wasabi preemptively said, okay, like, this regulation is coming, it's inevitable. And thus we, we are going to start working with coin with chain surveillance companies, and we're gonna Indian censor transactions and so on. And I think this is

terrible. And it's such a terrible precedent. And again, talking of precedents, we we had this before it was with Lavabit. And that was Edward Snowden, you know, like, lava bits just over Email services that are encrypted and the government came knocking, and Lavabit did I think the ethical correct thing and deleted all the records, and in my opinion, wasabi should

have done the same. But we should also differentiate between wasabi, the company and wasabi, the implementation because wasabi is open source software, and you can spin up your own coordination service and your own coordinator and set the coordinator of your wasabi service to something else. And then everything just works again, so to speak, you know, it's very much like, you know, you can just hop to a different IRC server, and you're still good to go. But it's, it's this

is the whole wasabi story. And it's it's like, I don't know how deep we want to go into this. I think privacy eventually is, yeah, we don't have to go TBD. I really just wanted to kind of sit. Like that's a good explanation for everybody.

Because I think that that that is something came to hit to a head in my mind about this whole thing when when I was thinking about it, there's sort of what Bitcoin maximalism really is and whether or not it's prepared to have this discussion of because there's there's Bitcoin maximalists out there, quote unquote, that are that do their whole goal is not to get government acceptance of Bitcoin as currency. And then there's the same people claiming to be Bitcoin maximalist, who that is

what they passionately care about. And those two things don't seem to mix to me. Well, well, let me put it like this. Okay. I think we all agree the Internet is a good thing. And free exchange of information is a good thing, right? Yeah. So what this is about is, like the internet works, whether governments wanted to work or not, okay, like you can, you can build an internet for yourself, you take two computers, and you network them together. And if it

gets big enough, you basically have an internet, right? Like, that's the whole idea is to have one network on standard

protocols that just work together. It's like a language, you know, and when two people meet and speak the same language, that's where the English languages, you know, with the internet, and TCP IP, and all these protocols that you Dave know very, very well, if two computers, multiple computers come together, then this thing is being brought into existence, you know, and the thing is, do we want to convince governments that this is a good thing? And do we want to kind

of, you know, like, do do we want to outlaw this? Or do we want to accept this for what it is, and build useful tools for people? And with Bitcoin? It's exactly the same thing. You know, like, do we want to outlaw Bitcoin and push it underground?

Bitcoin doesn't care, it will still work, you know, Bitcoin is dark market, money always has been, you know, it will always work just like, just like the internet, you know, like, it's, it's, it is built upon principles that are that are just kind of eternal principles, you know, like, you cannot shut down Bitcoin, that's the whole point. But it's, I don't think

it's healthy for society to make Bitcoin illegal. Because in the end, there are a lot of people that don't have access to finances, and also black, the big problem that we currently have is that money is not separate from the state and the state willy nilly expense, the monetary supply, and so on. All of these are kind of separate issues. And Bitcoin kind of

solves them all at once. And that's, I think, why Bitcoin is so terribly important, but I think, you know, cheering on El Salvador, for example, for accepting bitcoin is legal tender, is kind of it's, you can think about it, what, what do you want? I think, you know, I think it's, it's good to see that some governments at least see this for what it is, which is freedom, money, and they they're like, Okay, we don't want to push it on the ground, we don't want to make it

illegal. So let's, let's build something around it, you know, like this is, it's just like the internet, you know, like you have new new business models, new things that you can build on top that are very valuable for society. And that's, that's my position, at least on this. So you could say that, that it's, it really depends on the situation, because if you could say LCL I can feel two different

ways about it. I can say LCL when I see El Salvador accept Bitcoin as as currency as a legal tender, then I can say, well, that feels good to me because Elsa, the El Salvadorian, people are dealing with oppressive monetary and oppressive monetary situation and this gives them some measure of relief from that. But then I can also look at something like the US or the EU, and I can see them making some sort of nods to bit you know, Bitcoin as as potential money in the future.

And that can also freak me out at the same time and say, Well, what am I going to have to give up in order to make that happen how do you mean that I'm not sure I understand what it looked like what what giving up like in order to get there are we going to have to start doing things like wasabi is doing filtering UTX O's adhering to draconian you know regulations that get weird, z like you know in order it's like okay, here's the path the pathway to

accepting you know, the Bitcoin as digital currency within the US could be the pathway could look like all of these oppressive steps and whether you really want it or not that's that's not gonna be Bitcoin you know there's gonna be something else and and I think that's the important part that is to be understood in Bitcoin. And you you you kind of halfway asked the question before like what what is bitcoin maximalism more or you define Bitcoin maximalism for yourself?

I think Bitcoin maximalism is is just like an economic viewpoint. It's like a monetary viewpoint. Yeah, it is. It is like who should be in charge of the money printers. Bitcoin does away with the money printers and no one should be in charge of the money printers, everyone can print Bitcoin, if you start mining, you know, but there will never be more than 21 million

Bitcoins, you're not 21 million. That's it. And the way that Bitcoin works is that you can do everything yourself, you can mine yourself, you can hold your own keys, you can run your own, or you should hold your own keys, and you should run your own node, you define what Bitcoin is for yourself. And no one can interfere with this decision. So your hypothetical scenario of the US or the European Union changing Bitcoin

so that it is more compliant. This, this does not exist. If you understand Bitcoin, and you use it correctly, you decide what software to run, and you define the consensus parameters. And they cannot change that. And it's very much like, for example, in the English language, or chess, if you want to play chess, you just play chess with a buddy and you play by the rules of chess as you know them. And if the EU comes

and says, Okay, we're going to change the rules of chess. And you you now like, you know, like, we were going to make the board size twice as large and we're introducing five new pieces and what have you. It doesn't, it doesn't faze you, you can just play chess as you always played it. And bitcoin is just like that. It's just, it's not round based, it always goes goes on. And the rules of the game, the consensus parameters are part of the software and are part of the transactions are

part of, of the whole system. And so changing it is almost impossible. You know, like that's, that's what blocksize wars were about, like, if you change Bitcoin in a way that it is not backwards compatible, you create a new coin, and that's what happened with B cash and all the rest of the shit. Yeah,

no, I totally agree with that. I totally understand that. I guess I'm thinking more of just the regulation that layers on top of the acceptance of it like, okay, yeah, sure, you can get a Coinbase no longer has to send out we do us magically says, Okay, now you do not have to treat Bitcoin as property. Now you were going to treat it as currency. And it's just, it's

going to be just like holding dollars in the bank account. But in order in order to, in order to have this, this, this treatment on your Coinbase account or your you know, pick, pick whichever exchange you want, in order to have this feature. You are going you cannot use coin joins. You must Everything must be vanilla block, you know, Blockchain transactions, and the government can see every single UTX Oh, now there's no need for now, you don't even have the protection

of $600 limits on 1099. Yeah, but hold on, hold on a second, hold on a second. I'm with Gigi on this that has nothing to do really with the core reason for Bitcoin which is truly at the source of the money, all this other it's an when you have a perfect money, it's going to be perfect in every way is going to be perfect and transparency too. And I don't believe Bitcoin was created to circumvent or deal with in any way the IRS. That's a whole different layer.

Let me bring this back to something that you're very

familiar with, namely podcasting. It doesn't matter if the government outlaws RSS, podcasting still works, you know, like it's, it's you have to differentiate between multiple things here and again, Bitcoin was born out of the kind of motivation to remove the interference of the state and like to separate money and state this is the main motivation of Bitcoin, you know, like, I would say creation I would say creation of money and policy not necessarily

issuance. issuance and control of money Yeah, controlling the monetary flows and controlling who is allowed to issue new money. Yeah, this is the root of all monetary evil like, if in and, and you cannot do it in a way like a free market for money this does not exist, you are not free to use whatever money you want to use. And this is the whole reason why Bitcoin is built in this very convoluted way. The reason is that no one

can interfere with it, and no one can shut it down. And that that is what and all previous monetary experiments like cyber money experiments had a single point of failure, and were shut down because the governments that kept the government came stepped in and shut down the company that is running it and so on. And this is also why Bitcoin maximalists will tell you that every single other coin is the shit coin, because

they're all centralized. They all have father figures, they all have teams that tend to this coin, they're all running on like three nodes or what have you. Like they have no meaningful centralization. They are not government resistant, only bitcoin is government resistant. And this is the whole point. Yeah, it makes it's interesting to that. And maybe some people may not realize that you don't when you say that it's interested resistant. One thing that people may not understand

about Bitcoin is it can be done. It can be you can transact Bitcoin, just off on a piece of paper with some dice. I mean, like, you can just, you know, you can rock and roll a private key workout a transaction, and then you can make offline you could you could potentially, I can

barely, I can barely get chapters done. Dave, what do you make me do now with pencil, like, you could literally, you know, create the Create a transaction offline, coordinate with somebody through chat or something else and say, Okay, I'm going to broadcast this transaction to you, at this day. And this time, give me a while to get you know, you roll your own key so that I have a wallet address to send to, and all of this and then you just

broadcasted it that certain time. It's in that in that way, there's no, there's really even no traceability at all there. Exactly. Yeah. And that's what I wanted to mention before you mentioned Coinbase and so on Bitcoin on Coinbase is not real Bitcoin, it's just like a paper certificate. Gold, yes. Like the government can step in and take it away, and so on. The idea

about Bitcoin is that everything is completely decentralized. And you can do everything on your own and creating a Bitcoin account account, like in big, big quotes, like, Bitcoin doesn't have accounts because Bitcoin does not have an authority where you go towards and you register your account that you have to ask for permission to, to open like a Bitcoin bank account. No, that's not how it works. Bitcoin

accounts are created with mathematics. And that's why you can lock yourself in the toilet with like, a couple of dice or a coin, and you flip the coin 265 256 times. And then as you know, these kids these days, Dave, I mean, we used to lock ourselves in the bathroom with Playboy magazine, but no, no, now kids are bringing in dice like, oh, yeah, Mom, leave me alone. What are you doing? What are you doing? I'm rolling a Bitcoin

wallet. Yeah, that's how it Yeah. And the reason, the reason why you should do this, in the privacy of your home is that if someone sees what you're doing, then you're compromised, and they can take away your Bitcoin because your private key is nothing, but information is just a large number, you know, like, again, 256 Bits. And you can represent this number in like 12 words, or 24 words, or just literally as a large number or a

bunch of zeros and ones or as a QR code. And if someone has access to these 12 words, these 12 words are effectively your Bitcoin, like, there is no difference this this is no longer Bitcoin. Yeah. And so and that's also why it's so powerful. And that's also why I'm saying, it doesn't matter

what the government does, you cannot shut this down. Because I can, you know, like, I, I can, I can generate a random number, and I can transform it by hand into 12 words, and you can send me money to these 12 words, and I can just like, I know, Adam, did you know, like, I can remember these words in my brain, and I can go to a different country. And this is

very, very powerful technology. And that's also why it rubs up against the state or against nation states in general, because it is so powerful, and the state does not like the idea of, of having sovereign self sovereign people that have access to your own money that cannot be de platformed. And that brings me back to podcasting. You know,

podcasting. It's really easy to do on your own and hosting mp3 files is very easy and hosting an RSS feed is very easy, and no one is like if someone if the EU comes and passes a law that tries to change RSS or make it illegal, you know what, I can still do it and I can still put up a website and generate an RSS feed And toss some mp3 somewhere I can even do it in a decentralized way somehow or in a censorship resistant way i can use torrents, I can use whatever, you know, and I can

just do it and there is nothing you can do about it. And this it's the same is true for Bitcoin. And the reason why this works is it has to be it needs to have a small footprint, it needs to be easy to do a Bitcoin, you just need a random number and you need math, and you need an internet connection or some way to transmit data, that's all it is, you know. And for podcasting as well, you need a microphone, you know, you need

something that generates an mp3 or whatever. And you need some way to host the little bit of data that the mp3 or the audio file is. And that's it. And that's where the censorship resistant property comes from, you know, like that's, it's very easy to do, it's has a very small footprint, and everyone can do it. In fact, the best way to get some, some fresh bitcoin is what I'm doing. And I've got a an S nine, ant miner running and I get about 100 bucks a month. There you go, I put that in its

own special wallet, this is my clean Bitcoin. Yeah. And what you're doing is finding a random number, you're trying to find a random number. Yeah. And that's all that this and buying or whatever machine you have is doing, it's just doing it trying to do it very efficiently. And this, this, like, as a side effect, protects the whole Bitcoin network and, and protects the past of all transactions, and so on and so

forth. But you know, what, like, that's, that's why I'm advocating for for these things and doing so much in the realm of education. Because I think, trying to find random numbers should not be outlawed, you know, and just like last week, or something, did European Union try to pass a bill where they're outlaw lying proof of work coins, which is basically saying, we are gonna outlaw trying to find a random number, you know, and I think this is ridiculous. I don't want to live in such a society.

Joanne, can I interrupt you gentlemen for a moment and all this wonderful Bitcoin talk? And because, you know, while you're all talking about the future, I'm living in the now and I have discovered that I was wrong. It happens. We are receiving tons of booster grams from from the only app that supports the life protocol at this moment, as far as I know, which is a curio caster. I mistook the logo of curio caster for breeze for some

reason. I blame long COVID Actually, I need to read a couple of these because GGU have turned out to be a very, very valuable guest for us. And I'm kind of kicking myself right now. Because really, because you know, what we do is every guest gets 10% of our value block split. And of course, I usually put that in after the fact I should have had it in beforehand. Because now you're missing out on all this groovy stuff. Anyway, we've we've done quite well, I just want to share

a couple of them. First of all, let's see they're coming in. That's Mike Newman rush boost 2112 For the joy of a pew pew live, he says 32,022 stat SATs from Stephen B. Congratula. He, of course is the developer of curio caster. Who wants me to wish his son Jack a happy 12th birthday. It's on the it's on the on the 20th. So we'll get a jump on that. See Mike in Kansas City is boosting up a storm 3513 Still running with scissors and boosting it live taking two boosting during today's PC to

live stream happy to help debug things in real time. At Dred Scott 30,033 stats, I mean, this is incredible. People are just blast blasting us they just spewing SATs all over our faces. There you go. That's how it should. That's how it should be done. And I think you know, that's also why why all of this. And let me also just say, you know, like, just huge shout out to absolutely everyone who is working on this stuff. And of course, you know, thank you, Adam and de for, for building

all this out with the podcast index and so on. But I think you know, like, that's how it should be done. You, you, you should not need gatekeepers, that allow you to do certain things, you know, you should just be able to do it. It's about freedom after all, and you with with value for value. And podcasting in particular, you like you don't need to ask anyone for permission to do this. It's permissionless. It's censorship resistant, that that's the whole point. And you can spin up a

podcast feed, you can host it yourself. You can spin up a wallet again, you know, like just lock yourself in the toilet and get a couple of days and you're good to go. And you can receive you can receive streaming sets right from the gate and you don't need to create an account somewhere. You don't need to ask for permission anywhere and no one can depart from you. And I think this is incredibly important in this day and age. It's so much bigger than just comments. Wouldn't you agree Gigi?

Yeah, it is. It is 50,000 SATs from Pei tar Thank you very much Pater. Holy crap, can we can we just go ahead and name this episode in the toilet with dice? I mean, it's a vote for that. All right, I'm gonna change this right now. It's in the toilet but what should be rolling dice in The can wouldn't that be better? And they can roll his dice in the can dice in the can I'm changing dice in the can. You know the the good thing though. And you you actually

tweeted this the other day, Gigi is. And by the way, thank you, thank you for your help on the value for value spec, a lot of people may not realize that you got in there and did a big proofread of it and changed some stuff, cleaned it up and added you added app support, you really helped with that. And I'm very appreciated and brought us a massive credibility. Thank you not to be discounted. In but are you? Are you still doing episode level splits on your podcast?

Yeah, we're doing that actually. That's that's also that was the main kind of reason why I jumped on the value spec in the first place, because we wanted to do this. And then we saw that it's not really kind of fleshed out and implemented yet. And so we we try to add at this as well and help with the implementation

embrace as well. And I think, you know, like, the great thing about these open systems, the great thing about these protocols, as opposed to platforms is that every, every little thing helps because it will be here forever, you know, those are open specs, this is open source code. So if you improve it a little bit, it it will help millions of people and

it will be here forever. And and this this is such like this is such a stark contrast to all the walled gardens and closed systems that will just go bankrupt one day and will go away. And this is the big difference. You know, like, if you don't have a protocol does not need to keep itself alive. Usually, you know, like Bitcoin is the exception. You tweeted this the other day about the stellar vision of the

monetary gatekeepers in the world. To they there's this thing I think it was from CNBC or notes from the economist that said, well, inflation is here and nobody saw it coming by Oh, really? Nobody's nobody saw that guy. So I've got I've actually got some clips, there's this. This is from CNBC inflation. They they're telling us that, you know, this is from like, this is from roughly like a year ago, is transitory bit. And this is, this is how this is why we don't need to worry about inflation.

To try to boost the economy, policymakers in Washington have pumped trillions of dollars into the financial system in recent months. Economic Theory suggests all this money printing could create the risk of inflation. economist Milton Friedman famously said that if there's too much money in the economy chasing too few goods, prices will rise. When inflation was surging in the 1980s, Fed Chairman Paul Volcker put

Friedman's theory to the test. And it worked. Focus slowed the growth of money going into the economy and raised interest rates to tame inflation. But economists say there's been a break in the link between money creation and inflation in recent years as the banking system has become more complex. Wow, just as an audio guide, Dave, what the hell did did they fuck up a line and she had to re record it in her bathroom. This was we're still in lockdown mode.

Oh, right. Right. Okay. She was literally in her bathroom. Okay. Yes, this is like December of 2021. When she was in she was in the can with die. Doing this doing this segment and that here. So there's been a break. Yeah, I don't I don't think anybody knew this. There's now all the previous rules about the way inflation works and I'm going to show you these were these are this is old, outdated, 1930s inflation and proper inflationary, thinking about what inflation is go ahead and play that clip.

As you probably know, the first step in the inflation plan puts 3 billion additional dollars in circulation, this will make money more plentiful and less valuable. With money less valuable the purchasing power of the dollar will naturally drop. Therefore, the cost of living will be forced up. Wages will be increased to meet the higher cost of living so that the three

lines will be this one. And then kiddies will all have noodles in our soup Wait can we change the title of the show to noodles in our soup? Yes please the noodles in our soup or dice in the can longest show title ever he is. So all this this old antiquated thinking of, of printing money equals inflation. See, that's all broken. No, no, that doesn't work. No, you know, much better than that. Yes, modern monetary theory.

Yeah, we're in flux. So we don't need to worry about go ahead and say play inflation Part Two, the rise of the financial system and that and the sort of the diversification of the financial system is one of the reasons why sort of Milton Friedman's view of the world really is not as applicable, particularly in the United States, as it was in an earlier time. It's important to understand that the it's important to realize who this lady is that was just

talking. That is the chief economist for Citibank. I just want I just want people to understand that that's what she said, Did the Old Milton Friedman quote unquote, model of inflation of just printing more money, it's no good that that's, that's no bullshit, we need to move on. Yeah. It's important to understand that when the central bank prints money today, most of it isn't in the form of physical

dollar bills. Instead, the Fed creates electronic money, it uses that electronic cash to buy assets and lend to banks injecting money into the banking system to buy treasuries, for example, the Fed uses so called primary dealers, a group of around two dozen big banks and brokerage firms that trade bonds, what happens when the Fed creates money is it strictly creates central bank

reserves, those are held by the banking system. Now the banks decide, you know, what they're willing to lend out into the economy. That means that even if the Fed is pumping a lot of money into banks like it is today, the money won't reach the hands of consumers until banks lend it out. Yeah, this is this is the magic reserve notes which you're on the other side of the banks. It's a beaut, it's beautiful,

not inflationary at all, by the way. Hmm, no, it's not inflation, you know, give it to people, you just go to the banks. Yeah, exactly. Free, we're gonna wait a couple months, you know, whatever you need, bro. Ignore the fact that that's actually worse than giving it to people because of the because of the multiplicative effect of you know, fractional reserve banking, don't don't worry about

that. But you know, that this is these are these are the problems that that you know, not just Bitcoin but the the Bitcoin, you know, ethos is trying to solve is this sort of idiocy right here that is constantly they these are the smartest people in the room, so to speak. And they they constantly Miss ever going back to Alan Greenspan, not even not seeing the housing bubble in the.com Bubble coming six months previous to it. I mean, these people get it wrong every single time.

But here's the thing. And I've said, here's, here's what I've always seen if, and I know many, many people in banking, but I have one friend who left specifically for his kids moved to Texas, and even politicians when it comes time to raise the debt limit. It's always a political football in the United States. But what's interesting is, none of them believe that that'll the EU, we won't, of course, we're gonna raise the

debt limit. Because, you know, we back the fold, you know, if the dollar has the full backing of the United States, it's logical to them, it's like the sun rises. That's how we know that we will raise the debt limit, which allows for more creation of more money. Similarly, people in the financial system who work in it, it's like, it's they look at you, like they don't even understand where you're coming

from that you don't know how it works. This is seriously they'll be like, don't you understand how me the money gets made there? And it comes through? And then you know, is more every year? Don't you get that? And they don't there's no cognition about what that should mean, because it's been going on for so long. It's just baked into the system. So it's not that they don't get it. They literally don't know it.

Yeah, I agree. I think I think but I think that's, that's kind of the whole point of the whole system is to make it so complicated that even those insights on what's going on. So the public, of course, cannot figure out how the current system works. And everyone just trust it. And as you say, you

know, it has worked for a long time. And so there is no reason to believe that it will not continue to work, but we should not make like no mistake, the insanity the full blown insanity of the system started in 1971 when pletely removed the coupling tool and here here's what's crazy, GG. We are in a fractal right now. 70s we had oil crisis, we had energy crisis, of course, it was all a part of how we change everything. We're at the same

spot here. We're about to change the money system. We have a war going on back then it was Vietnam. We have we have supply chain we have it's we're living through this fractal and they are going to do their cbdc or whatever the hell they're gonna do their revaluation. I've heard all kinds of things and I'm sure you're well aware of the XRP will be the the token of the future. You know, with the quantum financial system, it's

offworld. I mean, I've read it all. I've seen it all. To me the the the the only danger the the fiat system faces right now is not from Bitcoin, the danger the fiat system faces is stable coin that is literally by definition of what they are inflationary. Yeah, I mean, I, I agree with what you were saying I think that the danger of the field system is that it implodes too quickly. And I think that's why it always goes on fighting and bombs and killing Biya.

Yeah, I think you know, like, through to kind of come back to the insanity of money creation is like, if you have a possibility to create money, you only need like an emergency, and then you will use the money printer, you know, like, just just imagine this thought experiment, let's say you have a valid money printer in the cellar, and you promise not to use it. And then something terrible happens in your family.

And I don't know your child has a terrible disease, and you suddenly need half a million dollars, of course, you're going to use it, you know. And that's what happens over and over and

over again, every time this experiment is being tried. And if you just look at history, we have tried this experiment, the fiat money of just creating money out of out of thin air multiple times over and it's responsible in part for the fall of empires, you know, that you once you, once you decouple money, base money from reality, so that you can just make it up for any reason whatsoever, then things go really bad really

quickly, because money is a very, very important tool. It's not only a tool, it's like psycho psychology, you know, like, it's like language, it's like, speak well. And it's also you know, we're in a in a in a war right now of networks, you know, social networks, electricity networks, energy networks, computer networks, but also financial networks. And, you know, when you when you change something in

a network, I just know enough about network effects. When you change something in a network, like removing an entire country from it, it's central bank's elected banks. When you remove I mean, I heard Todd from blueberry saying shit, man, we got Russian podcasters, who can't pay their bill. Yeah, yeah. And now all of a sudden, he doesn't hate Russia that much. It's like, I'm trying to figure out how to help these

guys. And like, how about some bitcoin? Why don't you take that, but but, but I think that and by the way, I've not heard anywhere. You know, when, when, when Putin calms down, or let's say, even if Putin gets kicked out, they elect a new leader, will will will bring Russia back on to Swift. I haven't heard that noise. And I don't think they plan on doing it. So these are big ass changes. And, you know, to say they're dumb, they

didn't think it through I think they certainly did. Because what it comes down to you said, emergency, we got a climate emergency $700 billion of this 1.5 trillion was a lot of it was climate emergency related. So on one hand, we're we're debasing the dollar by printing more. On the other hand, we're using the printed money to remove the petro dollar status. It's an obvious attack on the dollar.

But I want to bring this I think Gigi brought up a point, I think there's a philosophical point to be made here, you brought this this idea up. And I think this relates to you about having the

money printer in the basement. And I think this relates back to all this stuff is tied together in naturally is in my mind, that this is also the reason why you don't, we have to be extremely careful, and I would say really never embark on the path of censorship is because it's this idea of, I've kind of been thinking about this idea of like, if having a thing behooves the use of that thing. So there's just there's something about having something available to you to use, that makes you it

makes it inevitable that you're going to use it. So like you, you know, you give a thought experiment a while ago, I'll give you another one. Imagine a world where every household in the entire world globally, has a lock, a locking mechanism on it, it's centrally connected to some, like the UN, or the who. And you can say, Okay, we'll never, we're never actually going to use this thing. But we do we do have it. We just want

to have it. And so, but we're actually But trust us, we're never actually going to use it. Well, you know, Z, the moment that you have a thing like that where you know, at the push of a button, you can lock everyone in their homes, instantaneously. Of course you're going to use it, things are going to happen, pandemics, all these kinds of things, and you can be very sure

that that thing is going to be used. And the same thing with censorship once once you empower global In global technology companies to have the power to remove and censor, once you've given them that technology, of course, they're going to use it. And they're going to start using it constantly for all kinds of stuff that you don't it's an emergency 100% 100%. And that was also one of the main points of long piece I wrote on on value for value, that the main point was that

free speech platforms cannot exist. If you have the ability to censor or filter or monitor or D platform people, this will be used, there will be an emergency found there will be like speech found that is extremely it's all over. It's already Oh, it's all over the place. It's happening everywhere. Yeah, of course. And that's why free speech protocols are so important. And that's also why free speech money as a protocol is so important. And that is, of course, why Bitcoin is so

important. And in the end, it always comes back to two very philosophical questions of like power and control and those

kinds of things. And like, for example, the question around free speech is basically who should be allowed to speak and about what, and our collective answer in the West was, everyone should be allowed to speak, the Logos is sacred, and there's nothing off limits, you know, like, you should be allowed to discuss everything, because we learn the hard way, that there's two ways to resolve conflict is either through speech or through violence. And speech is preferable to violence,

I prefer to be grumpy, that just seems better. If I'm grumpy, it works. In ethics, there's this notion of ought implies can. So if you're going to hold somebody morally responsible and say that they ought to do something, then it's inherent, its inherent in that, in that idea that they have the ability to do that thing. If you're going to say you should do it, you you just

presuppose that they have the ability to do it. And I think there's, you can reverse that in this scenario and say, there's also the idea of can maybe can, compels ought, yeah, if you can do something, you're going to do it. Yeah, exactly. And that's also why I think that Bitcoin is a technical answer to a, like, a moral and philosophical problem, because the question is, who should be allowed to issue and

control the money? And the current answer in fiat money is governments and banks and so on, and so forth, you know, and they have the ability to the platform, they have the ability to print money, which is will money into existence, which dilutes everyone else's money, which basically enriches them without, like, just because, you know, they don't, that that's what's so outrageous about this, you know, a normal person has to work his whole life or her whole life to make like, a million

bucks, you know, and it's very, very hard. And there is a separate part of the population that can just print the button and they have a million bucks, you know, like, that's, it's, it's very interesting. And it's a question about morality, for this very reason that this rule exists, that if people have it, they will use it that I'm even more convinced now that the UFOs have blocked the launch of nuclear weapons, they're not

going to fire I'm not worried about nuclear war. I haven't been ever since I heard about the UFOs, disabling them, like someone would have pushed DEP by now. There's no you're not getting a theorem in for me today. But, but just just to maybe finish this thought about answering the question of who should be allowed to issue and control the

money with gold. And that's what you rightly pointed out that, you know, like, all the hard money forks, they want to solve this problem, and they're all in the, in the same boat, so to speak. And I kind of agree with that, you know, and with gold, it was like, Okay, let's say for what God created gold and distributed all across the earth, and everyone who is

willing to dig for it, you know, gets the gold. So this is gold mining, of course, and who can who can like control the flow of gold, because it is decentralized in gold coins, you know, and of course, you know, their standard, blah, blah, blah, we can get into like, deep philosophical debates about that, but still, like, I can hand you a gold coin, and there's nothing anyone can do about it. You know, that's the whole idea. It's, that's where it is again, because it is

distributed that's why it's censorship resistant. That's why That's why cash is so so that's, that's why cash is so important

for society. And that's also why in general, like the powers that be want to get rid of, of cash, and that Bitcoin answer, which is again a technical answer to like a question of philosophy and morality, the Bitcoin answer to who should be allowed to issue and control the money, this basically, everyone should be allowed to have access to the money and no one is allowed to print money, you know, like 21 million Bitcoins exist, you

cannot make more. It's just they are basically hidden in mathematical space and all that miners do is dig out those 21 million Bitcoins, and it is fixed in time. That's why the the issuance of Bitcoin is known that you can think of it as like a substance that the harder you try to find it, the harder it will be to find. This is the difficulty adjustment. The harder you dig into the ground, the Moore's constant gets Dave and I have agreed we are retiring at block height 1 million.

There you go. That's how you do it now. Yeah, that's bitcoin is the is the true time. Speaking of speaking of cash, Dave should we thank some people and we will cognizant of your time today you have the oh yeah sure. Get back again. You want to stick around and hear some histograms Jake always always Shall I start off with what's coming live here a couple more things Dave? Sure. Cuz we got to figure out how to do this now. This is this is a great way to raise funds for the

for the project. I'll tell you that 3333 from cotton gin, I'm boosting while getting a haircut. The stylist is bewildered. It's great. Then we got a whole slew of 100 sat boosts unknown from who but also a 10k boost from Tim K over there to Ellen pay who of course is powering a lot of what we're doing. Tim K I love it. Yeah, yeah, no I because I send out the bad signal. I said man, people are

boosting but that's not coming through. It's only coming through from breeze and of course I'm an idiot was coming through from Korea Kassar all the time. Cold acid gets a tip of the hat for 33334 His command line boost, Graeme? Pew pew pew. Let me see who else did I get here? Brian of London 1948. By far the hardest part of my relearning to code has been my experience setting up dev environments. But once you get it working, it's great. Oh, yes. And 5000 from see Mike running

with scissors doing it live while boosting. Yes, indeed. And I think I think those are the other ones I read to those of most of the came in during the live show. Thank you all very much. Because that that does make a difference. Do y'all read this on your show? GG we experimented with a bunch of things that we want to do and

and we're still trying to figure it out. We actually championed the idea of boosters comments, because we we built a little script that that farms the booster grams, so to speak well, again, there's users you can't fight the users can I won't fight users ever? Yeah, so So we showed them on the on the podcast site as like, you know, common fields. It's very similar to comments below a

YouTube clip or what have you. But I think you know, everyone is still in the process of trying to figure out how to use this best and what was the grams are and so on. Yeah, there's a real there's a real feature discovery thing. I mean, I want to I want to boost the gram clock just kind of like the the block clock. Yeah, I want something I can just put in my house and I just you know just just see the booster gram true. Ya know, it's pew pew and that's all the sets up and only goes up.

Yeah, that's all Yeah. All day long. Pew pew. We got a we got one paper. We got one weekly pay pal. That was $6.66. From Who's this from? That is from Greg Kovalchuk. And then the note is for six hours. 66 minutes to notice. Don't be a dick. Okay. All right. Yeah. Thank you. Oh, yeah, we agree with that. That's a good message. Not Google's motto. But that's okay. So, that was the only paper we got a bunch of boosts though.

Look at our transition, though. We're transitioning from PayPal from the fiat money system to lightning. Yeah. And we beautiful fingers crossed the entire time that lightning doesn't collapse. Yeah, well, there's that. There's that. Yeah, it's running with scissors. 3333 from Chad F. He says I see the live so I guess that was from Yeah, there must be three. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And see 2222 A row ducks from Stephen B. He says live Boone's.

Servo I guess this sounds like a no agenda guy SRV Oh, three curio Castries Is it him? Yes sir. And he is not just a no agenda guy. He also has a node with a channel because I was just looking at them all today. Oh, nice. Okay, thank you. And we get a 233 330 threes from Sir Spencer. Whoa. Hey says Welcome to Live podcasting 2.0 boardroom congrats to Steven V for enabling live item in curio caster Hey other podcast apps do you need to catch up in the live item support? Let's go

see, we might not see it. This is anonymous. This is from Darren O'Neal. Okay. 10,034 cents through Bryce. He says what he says one more than CSB. Thank you for your courage boost through and CSB under the bus I see. Martin from pod friend he says boosting live historic times indeed. I spread myself too thin on House job and various pot friend tasks. But I hope to have live and comments ready for next week's episode.

Oh, you know the crazy day it'll show up and have it all done and slick looking as usual Yeah. In in the background is floors will be nice and waxed and while he's cooking dinner for his wife yeah chat F again with a boost 5000 SATs he just says boost yo Thank you drips got 10,000 SATs through curio caster and he says go podcasting podcast Thank you drew see anonymous okay. I don't

know who this is. And I'm wondering if it may be Roy through breeze and 1948 SAS he says do it live Shabbat Shalom from Israel? Maybe what's what's the number? What's the numerology on it? 194 1940 Oh no, that's Brian of London. Yeah, I see I recognize people by their boost amounts now. Yeah, you'll get another numerology boosts on closing the loop.

Yeah, definitely. We got some of those as well. I think you know, in in Bitcoin land there's a lot of like 21 sets and multiples of 21 Yeah, of course of course and some 420s You wait wait until April rolls around. Blueberry sinister boob donation 808 And he says Happy live day when we get when we get the node for behind the schemes up and running again. It's our intention to make a split in the index split to the index. Very legal. Bad radio lot dot live is

a place one could head for pulp punk. sciency conspiracy hypothesizing Ooh, sounds like the show for me I like it. That is very Satan knee okay, but very cool that you're putting putting us in your split and we have our lightning node in the show notes if anyone else wants to add an extra split from your podcast for for the index for the whole project be appreciated servo again with 333 through the from the says hello from the boost CLI a lot of love for the boost command line.

It is kind of fun to do that I've experimented a bit with it. It's kind of cool. And in quite scriptable to yeah can end up with a with a Brian of London style cron job or Hey, put a cron job Okay, that's it. That's it. That's the new marketing thing is put us in your cron job Stephen B 5000 says it's nice listening live hope he says don't slow down

No, it's been it's been great this thing is flying man. I can't believe it we've had how many lives we have we must have 50 Different live booster grams. Goodness gracious. So this that's me that's a test boost What am I doing booster myself? I see legal Stop it might new might know that your dice and go into the bathroom and you need to boost yourself. Okay. Take your noodles with you. Mike Newman 21 112 Super rush boost answer. He says boosting the live go podcasting boost boost

boost podcast. These are from last week's live that I believe so. Yeah. So first time doing it live from Chad Pharaoh. 101 says Thank you Chad 50 Oh, this is from Roy 54th As 54321 54,321 says Drew Brees. Wow, how about that? Thank you brother. Coming in, in a big way. Man, Roy is that a baller is a baller with that he's

looking through I'm looking through the list here. He may be the baller shot 20 blades on the Impala he's not the baller boots were given give to him anyway though, because that's that's a big one. The and a millennial in the in the chat room says he or she got their first cron job at 16 tell you the comedy writes itself when you do this live is great at the prom, feelin cast peeling 3300 sets through fountain he

says thanks for all the work well. You're welcome Cass eight 686 75 from a very long username that's undecipherable through fountain he says boosting to balance my channels can be used please feel. Feel free to do that as as much as you want. Cameron from wait. This is Cameron at IPFS podcasting dotnet great utility. This is a bat channel balanced. Balanced your channel by boosting us. It's a balanced boost. Come on people.

Were GG we're basing our show is basically a loop out. Yeah, we were submarine swap. So Have a swap? Yes. So see that's that's for me again 500 sets from Dale through cast medic. He says your point about creators at about 78 minute and about 78 minutes Adam. I switched to a value supporting app when I learned on Linux unplugged that I can use it to compensate Jupiter broadcasting

podcasts at a level of my choosing. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, yeah Chris Fisher ever Jupiter all those shows Linux unplugged and Coda radio and he's been extremely supportive. I could have pulled I don't know six or seven clips over the last two weeks of their their full on with value for value. They're doing booster grams, reading them on the show. And they get it they they actually do they get it

anonymous through cast MATIC 2000. Sasson says any reverse value system would most likely get abused to make a quick buck. That's possible. Yeah. True layman creations. As Andy layman. Our buddy 32 sets the cast ematic he says oh, keeping software updated to date is a pain in the bud. Yes, it is. Andy is software No kidding. Always a pain? Yeah. That's why I love the web apps. Yeah, updated in the background for me. I'll just use it. PW A's Mm hmm. Cotton Gin 508 sets. And he just says live.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you cotton gin. Oh, here's a row of sevens from soaring Satoshis I like that name. Through breeze and he says boost. Yo, how you doing booster. Row? Oh, that's for you. You're testing you're doing channel testing. Adam with the road outside? At least at least I'm not boosting myself. I am boosting myself. I guess I'm I'm trying to clear out my pipes. Clear. Ice. Yeah can only go downhill from here. Dice is good for that. Nomad, Joe 2000 SATs through fountain

and he says greetings from the road. Well, greetings nomad. Joe. I know that Mr. Graham from Adam. I'm going through these in real time here because I didn't have time to print them. Another Darrin Oh, Darrin O'Neill boost. Oh, this time this is a big 133 333 through breeze and he says I do have stats from random thoughts unrelenting and planet rage. This is your vague Oh yeah. Thank you. Yeah, that was from the last show. Okay, it gave us the big C that is a another one from Roy. So

1234 sets he says Hi Dave. Don't forget to respond to my telegram. I love when people pay us to come to the phone. He says if boosting is what it takes to get you to reply, I'm game. Boost. Alright, you don't want to encourage that with me because that may become a thing. Oscar Mary through fountain he says first time but not the last 100 Once ads. Thank you. Chad Pharoah 333 33 through curio caster. He says. I hear you loud and clear. That's probably that's probably just tuning into

the live stream. A lot of testing here they here's some Unicode string. indecipherable that's always great. And mere, mere mortals podcast. Kyron. He says, I was screaming at my screen the entire time. YouTube has comments. Can whoever is creating the shirts have a picture of Adam and Dave running with scissors? And the words podcasting 2.0 The YouTube killer on mine please and thank you. Is it done yet? Is it isn't yet? That's a road dogs 2222 Oh yeah, we'll hit a road duck there

John's BRT 49,000 SATs. He says we're he says we're gonna make it pewpewpew No, no. We're gonna make it work. Don't worry. Thanks as long as we make it doesn't matter what we're gonna make it. He sounds like a song from the hairbands All right. I think we're gonna make it Oscar marry 10 SATs. Oh, hold on a sec. whooshed that's that's come on Oscar. Game really bro. SC OTT for gave us 10,420 SATs. He says Nice. Just a quick boost. Thank

you guys. Thank you. Okay, and I'll see you later. Here's the baller boost from Sir bill through fountain 300,000 SATs Whoa, there it is shot Carla 20 blades on I am Paul. Nice. Oh, holy crap. I remember seeing this. This reflected in a channel somewhere. Oh, yes. You see the channel swing. Yeah, but Guess dumps from one side to the other. Love the show and keep up the good work. That's all I said. Thank you. Thank you so much. That's really appreciated.

Sir. You know what, sir? Bill? We need proof of identity here because it's possible. God is just impersonated? Yeah, right. We have no idea that we think it's all Dred Scott. We think in podcasting 2.0 is successful and it's just drab. Yes. He's the only the only guy right. Yeah. Dred Scott. Yeah, you'll never know. That's the beauty of it. That is Yeah, it's true. Anonymous, another anonymous 2000 Sasuke. Cast. ematic says, oh, that's that's a repeat. That's another one. Satoshi

stream 5552. Through fountain, and he says, more stats. The average boost to Satoshi stream podcast is 1557 SATs. Average streaming payment is 36 sets. That makes sense. Yeah, actually, my streaming is set to 40 sets. What is that? What are you at? I'm at 100. What are you at GG? Um, well, I think I'm a 21. Yeah, so I'm below average. And you are both above average, but I'm not surprised about that. You're You're a below average streamer.

You know, he didn't play with the dice long enough as a kid. That's that's probably. Yeah. That Well, that's the problem. You're doing it all on a piece of paper. You need to actually do it in the app. Yes. Please get with it. It does help a little bit with that. Yes. What do you use? Which app do you use? Eg I'm on brace. Brace. I really like brace. Yeah. Dave Jackson says 5150 says oh, that's yeah, we know what's up with that. Dynamic Content hoarded. Wait, wait. Dynamic

content. horked. My old school chapters I made in Hindenburg. Podcasting. 2.0 to the rescue, go podcasting. Yay. Podcast. The Bootstrap bandit Tim K through fountain he sent 101 SATs as wild. Alright, man. Nice. You gave a shout out to bootstrap banded. He built a lot of cool stuff in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Well, right now a lot of a lot of us is running on him. Yeah. Tim Kay's incredible. Very nice. Well, we'll talk about

next week we came up with some good ideas. I think so had a call with him and Oscar. On Wednesday. I think we we hashed out some some pretty cool stuff. super nerd Media gave us 12,345 sets. And he says on behalf of my podcasting partner and Barnhart, thank you for everything y'all are doing to preserve and protect podcasting going forward. We cordially invite you to check out the Barnhart podcast, a show which mainly focuses on issues regarding the Catholic Church

today. Listen, that sounds interesting and listen to that. with particular emphasis on the question. Which of the two bishops in white is actually the current pope? The answer may surprise that sounds like my kind of shit. I love that I love about the pope stuff and you get to read Viggo No, what's the X Bishop? I think or Cardinal whatever he is. It's just it's a mess. Man is fun. It's it's, it's almost like a true crime podcast. Well, you did. I mean, you essentially chose the current

pope. So I mean, oh, yeah, I called him right away. I said that guy is Yep. Yeah, I did. Sir Doug 4400 SATs through fountain. He says I'm not a developer. And I'm not a podcaster just a passionate listener that really appreciates what you guys are doing. Thank you. So nice. Nice. Yes. Very nice. And the delimiter mafia blogger. Here he is everybody 10,033 SAS, which is one less than Darrin O'Neill. Yeah, I have to point that out. Yes.

Hi, a David Adam. Let the Russian invaders be damned. And your listeners are warmly invited to listen to a podcast named AI cookies by Gregory William Forsythe Forman from Kent. Latest Episode 26 Apart from news about artificial intelligence covers, ml ops kind of DevOps but from machine learning yo, yo to you comics through blogger. He's gotten creative. He's changed the message a bit. I appreciate that. Too. More like it out of the cron job. He's doing it by hand now.

Thank you cotton gin for your 22,222 Live booster Graham. He says go podcasting that just came in. Okay. But guess a month lease to Sir Alex gates. The podcasting 2.0 Consulting gave us $25 Brown of London $10 of Hive. That's an automatic thing. Yes. Always keep forgetting. Thank you. Thank you, Brian. Jeffrey Rutherford. $5 Chris gallon $5 Cheers. Kevin Hall five $10 Damon Castle Jack $15 sore and Miller $10 David Norman $25 Derek J. Vickery. $21. Great

name. Paul Saltzman $22.22. And Paul sent me a message and I'm pretty sure I read. I'm pretty sure this is one you're talking about if you send a different one and I didn't get that one, let me know Paul. No, I'll read it out. I may have missed it. Jeremy Gertz $5 Timothy Hudgins my buddy $25. David would find $3 Lauren ball $24.20 survive on the sea survive give Ash $5 Basil trust $1 and Thomas Sullivan, Jr. $5.

This is highly appreciated, especially it always, always really gets me when I see how many people who are already delivering their time and talent to the project, then add some treasuring is so appreciated the entire project, everything is financed through the support and that is coming from you. We it's the only way this project will work. As you can tell, we can speak freely, we have no wonder they can lock us down or turn us

off because they don't agree with some thing. It's just what a great group, a unbelievable group of people working on this. You can support us by going to podcast index.org That's where we still accept your Fiat fund coupons, especially those monthly fees are very appreciated. Put us in your crontab. Everybody that'd be great. Appreciate that personally crontab. With with the command line boosts up oh, just came just came in a balance boost. Oh 250,000 SATs from Alex

gates giving myself some inbound liquidity. He says you balance in the channel. You do too much rather you do too much? What if what if it turns out that this is the real purpose of the common system? Quiet? It's the balancing? Hey, balance of Satoshis Get the hell out of here. Who needs you? We don't need thunder hub. We just need booster grams. That's how we balance. Thank you very much, Alex, that's way above and beyond brother. So that's what

I'm talking about. And if you're a listener, if you agree with what we're doing here, which How could you not we've made podcasting better. We've made it, we've protected it, we're enhancing it, we're extending it support the project as well. Everything helps. And of course, all the Satoshis go into liquidity. For all the nodes. We have 132 channels at today, interactive. And we're proud of it. We're not doing it the way everyone else does. But it does seem to be working again.

Appreciate it. Get a modern podcast app, a new podcast apps.com You can participate in the live chat in the live booster grams. Or just enjoy all of the new features podcasting 2.0 has to offer. Thank you so much for supporting episode 78. Yeah, and it it's it's so it's really cool because you can tell exactly where the stuff is going. Because like we got a we got a somebody sent us six $6 donation this month, this week

from PayPal, it seems like it's not very much. But I'm also but I spun up a new Linode VM to test the aggregate then you aggregator stuff. And it's a $5 VM and exactly that totally covered it. Also, you know, we got a 300,000 set boost today. And we literally opened a 300,000 sets rental to a new podcaster this morning. That's right.

Isn't that beautiful? How that works. I love that because that Dave and I like, you know, Dave will check with me because I manage to kind of manage the node kind of for good or for bad. And he's like, Hey, can you open the channels? Yeah, I'm gonna do 300 Because it's for Jupiter, right? Yeah, it's for one of their new shows. Yeah, yes, I'm expecting these guys will need some some good

liquidity. So let's do 300k I look, you know, we had we have 1.8 left on chain, you know, like there's one or two I can prune. But to have this come in, right at this moment is it's perfect. It means the world to us means the world to us. Yeah, GG. I know you. You probably weren't expecting to talk about the things that we brought up today. But we really appreciate you diving in with us. Is there anything else you'd like to talk about? That we that we can still do in our time remaining with

you? Yes. Sorry for throwing you a curveball if I did that. No, no worries, no worries. I think those things all of those things are terribly important. And in the end, I think what what everyone should realize is that it all boils down to one thing and that is censorship resistance. It's it's about doing it your own way without asking for permission and that's also I think, why Bitcoin is so important because it is truly censorship resistant money and understanding all that

like why this censorship resistant and so on. We went into like we dug into it a little bit. It is rather difficult but in the end it comes down to it for Bitcoin that you you have to to, to, to pay to use it also, you know, like, you have to bribe the miners. And I think we all know this in the, in the podcasting world as well, like if you, if you really want to be censorship resistant, you have to host your own files, for example, and you, you kind of have to pay for that

as well. So, you know, like, the other side of the coin of freedom is like, you have to take responsibility, and you have to understand these things. And you have to understand the systems and you have to run your own stuff, and you have to kind of decide for yourself, which infrastructure is at risk of being D platformed. And what what you want to do to, to be really uncomfortable, cancel, you're able and have the freedom of those new, like technologies that enable you to speak freely

and to exchange value freely. And that's why I'm also so bullish on the value for value model, because it truly is like a direct monetization model that moves away from advertisements that moves away from self censorship that moves away from being locked in, in a in a beautiful walled garden, you know, that is YouTube, and Spotify and all the rest of it. And so I'm super bullish on these free and open platforms.

Gigi, you've written about value for value before would you be willing to take a stab with me writing this up for the website? Yeah, of course. Of course all my stuff is freely available online if someone wants to read it, it's called the freedom of value on their gg.com and I release all my stuff on a as free and open in a free and open licensing model. So feel free to

rip it apart remix it put it somewhere else. Okay. And I'm of course happy to to work with you to put it somewhere yeah, I'd like like it's more accessible that yeah, I'd like to run some stuff by just so we have it all all. I mean, I I understand it because no, I've been I've been doing value for value for so long. But yeah, I'm not the best writer. Put it that way. Yeah, no

happy to do that. And also shout out to all the other people that are currently exploring this I think value for value thanks to podcasting. 2.0 got it got a big boost, like, no pun intended, but a lot of people woke up to the idea. And also, of course, like the legacy system with all the D platforming helps as well, you know, like Tony Hsieh stuff the world increases, really does and new alternatives. And if I had a kid and I might my daughter's 31, my

stepdaughters are in their mid mid late 20s. So it's a little late for them. But if I had a kid now, man, I'd like here's an old laptop, here's, here's a Linux distro, set that up first, and then I'm going to show you how then we'll set up an Umbral, then we'll understand how email works, and then we're going to get your Node running, and then we're going to just, you know,

it's like, the education is all messed up. We're giving kids iPhones and iPads in the stroller, and they just expect shit to work and have no idea what's going on the background and the power they actually have of doing things themselves. Yeah, I think, you know, I really like the saying of like, there's, there's two ways on how you can learn this stuff, it's either through curiosity or through pain, and I think the pain will increase, you know, more and more people will get d

platformed. And we'll learn to find another way, and those who are curious enough to to kind of be ahead of the curve, they will they will benefit from being set up and knowing how all this works. And also, you know, being familiar with things like Bitcoin, and you just it will be increasingly important to know how to set yourself up to to function in a modern context without being de platformed and so that you can have your wealth

attached and, and all the rest of it. And again, I want to I want to kind of applaud everyone who is working on that not only in the podcasting space, but value for value is currently also being explored in in the written medium, like lb from the lb browser extensions behind that are doing great work on trying to incorporating lightning payments and lightning addresses in open standards where you can just include it into your blog, or whatever you have as metadata or also even on

YouTube pages and so on. And it will like the extension will parse it out. And just like value for value podcasting app, if you have some Satoshis loaded up then just by just by clicking one button, you will be able to push a boost so to speak to the author of the article and so on and as long as you want to be super cool, as long as everyone keeps using confetti. I'm fine. That's the most critical piece in the entire gotta have the confetti requirement. Yeah, transmute Satoshis into confetti.

Thanks again, Gigi. Really appreciate it. Awesome. Thank you, Dave. Yep, final words. Not Well, Stephen B. My final words are Stephen Bay just said in the chat that he's working on putting GGS audio book for 21 lessons as a podcast feed. And that's cool. Oh man, I love it. All right, everybody. Hey, you know what great board meeting. This was good. I'd love to thank you very much everybody in the chat room. Thank you everybody who was

boosting us live. Thank you all for supporting podcasting. 2.0 We'll be back next week with another meeting of the Board of Directors right here on podcasting 2.0. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org For more information