Episode 74: Confetti Canon

podcasting 2.0 for February 18 2020, to Episode 74 We got a confetti cannon spewing SATs everywhere Hello everybody. Welcome to the official board meeting of

podcasting. 2.0 everything happening at podcast index.org podcasting 2.0 namespace and of course all the stuff happening at that wonderful root of creativity podcast index dot social I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama my midnight midnight upgrade from bed buddy, my friend on the other end ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave Jones. Okay, that was the weirdest. Yeah, and I was bad. It was best the Rhona man, it's like everything's off

the rails. You're one tick one tick too slow and you got to give me your brain as I knew exactly how it feels. But I was in bed last night upgrading heli pad from my phone. I thought that was badass. From the phone SSH. You know what the hardest part is? is trying to copy and then paste in VI on your your phone terminal. Yeah, that's that's always that does not sound easy. No, it wasn't when it's like suddenly humongous long Sha 256 Well, it was the the Docker dot YAML

thing that I had to change to typing Docker dot Yeah. Mo, like just typing that entire thing out on a phone. No, no, no, no. D tab. Not all works. I mean, all the all the shortcuts work. I love that part. Yeah, I guess the phone keyboard hashtag. Yeah, it's I'm using was it Terminex? I think Terminus Terminus. Yeah. Yeah. Terminal. Okay. Yeah, the standard keyboard. It's got its own built in. Yeah, yes. Okay. You can determine what special keys you

want above the keyboard. So you can have your arrow keys and yeah, basically, I want to have escaped control tab, and then I can slide over to get all the arrow keys. Yeah, yeah. I know. I'm sick. Literally and figuratively. Yeah. Date run out of date. We're gonna update. You know, this morning. I woke up this is day 11. I went back and look day 11 At least him taking medication for it. So I woke up did not have night sweats. This is a huge

improvement. Great. Yeah. So anyway, I'm just wearing now because of the well first of all you were telling me about? Well, you know, second wave was like everyone's got a story to vor X telling me about his kid. What was a month like? Okay, so I'm just waiting for the fatigue to hit me. Right. And then of course, yesterday we hear from the slate podcast, there's such a such thing as COVID Dick and their words not mine. What is that? It's erectile dysfunction baby.

It's not funny because just the fact that women were talking but these women were talking about it. So you know, guys like that should gets in your head. It's like a win. Win. We're talking about like, like, I'm gonna have to get a divorce. Oh, no, man. Go listen, there's no agenda. It was bad enough there. I don't want to. I don't want to pollute anything here. People people emailing me like, Hey, man, are you okay? No, no, it's just a story. Okay, it's just a new story. Are you

sending love Love and Light anyway? Anyway, Dave the new heli pad version 1.9. Yeah, kicks still doesn't do what your CSV export we will get there. We'll fix that fix. I don't understand that. Can we talk about that for a second? Because sure did. Okay, so let me pull up my pad. Here. We ladies and gentlemen, the gloves are off. We're pulling up our heli pads. This is how it all goes downhill but taking off well, I guess for a helipad up landing not taking off well that

dependents that dependent goes both directions. Yes, of course. I'm so on my yellow pad. What happens is okay, here's here's the the algo or whatever, let me let me explain the problem. Okay, so I have there's a CSV export which has been built in which is very important as a podcaster so that you can output the booster grams and be able to thank people I have SATs coming in whether full on or just like 1% just to be able

to get the booster grams from four different shows. And so when and some of them I do on a 14 day basis so when I'm going in to get the most facts booster grams, I have to go back a full two weeks and I wasn't because I have so many booster grams it just it, I wasn't able to go back far enough for whatever it was in the in the output. And so guys, I think, yeah, initially it was just 100. I think it was just like a hard coded, right, which is, which is like a week for me.

Right? Yeah. So the way it's supposed to work, and I checked it this morning, and mine was working this way. So I still don't know what the discrepancy is. But the way it's supposed to work is every one of the items that you see on the screen has a message ID attached to it. And that message ID is the index number of the invoice within lnd. Okay, and what happens is, Hello, Pat is constantly keeping in sync with lnd every few seconds, it pulls lnd

eventually, this will be a G RPC stream. That's bad now, because badass like that. Right? Yes. So it's polling and it says it just says any new invoices, you know, and then when it has some, it pulls them in. Now these are all the invoices. So your l&d Most current invoice index number should be the same in hell pad, they should both be matching all the time. So what happens in hell pad is if you ex, when you, when you load the screen initially, it just takes the most current invoice index

number. It shows you all of them back like I don't think it's like initially Okay, 100. Then if you hit low, show more it, it just says, Okay, show me anything older and blah, blah, blah. Well, the display, there's a discrepancy with with between what the index numbers are on each boost in the list on Hello pad. And what how many invoices you might actually have, because help had only shows boosts not streaming payments, right. So there's gaps in there.

So the way that it works currently is when you export the CSV, it, it takes its initial index number from the very top most boosts you see on the screen. And then it looks at whatever the last boost in the list is, and subtracts the last boost number from the boost number at the top to get a total number of booths to export. Okay, so if your top most number is 150, and the bottom most number is 75, the count will be 75. So it'll say Export starting at index

150. And the count give me 75 boosts going backwards. That should give you it actually should give you more than what you see on the screen, because you're gonna have more than 75 boosts in the output, because there's gonna be streams in there, too. So what you should see is you should see everything you see on the screen, probably plus some. But you're saying that you don't see that? No seeing less than what you see on the screens? Yeah, I just tried it. I just did an export. So you

know, fresh on heavy pad. And just browsers never seen 1.9 just minimize everything. And I hit more more boost twice. So the bot and it gave you boost eight, but each time did you hit it it gave you more? Yes, yes, that works. And so now I'm on the list, I'm down to 14 January, on the list at the bottom, and I'm just leaving my browser where it is I'm not going to the top, I'm just staying at the bottom, it shouldn't make any difference, I presume, no case, and I hit

Export, and then the CSV and I opened it up. And the top number is from today 18th of February the index numbers 37,937. And the bottom of this list is February 1, and the index numbers 28,008 61. And this is what I get consistently no matter how many I expose in the in the web UI. I know well, this is clearly wrong. So what I'm going to need your database is what I'm going to need so I can figure this

out. Hey, if you can have my database you can have my firstborn you can have whatever you want. Please take my firstborn. Let's start with the database and then work backwards from there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'll give my you have significantly more invoices in there. Yeah, I'm a booster. You are. You have significantly more more invoices than anything in any that I've tested. But the math should be the same. I don't. I don't understand why it would be

problem maybe? Well, the only thing as you were explaining that to me, I was hearing gaps. You know, of course, there's tons of gaps in in my data in the past three weeks. The Umbral definitely has crapped out a couple times. So I don't know if that makes a difference. But this was this was in essence, a fresh install. I mean, I edited my Docker dot Yamo. He did. And I saw it parse. I mean, and all the boosts are in there going back to November. Okay,

so I don't understand that. Yeah, moss, I'll send you my database. It's okay. How many total entries are in that? May? It should be a bunch. I mean, it's when you x 209. Okay. It's so it's getting you what you need for now, but it's just not it's just not giving you it's not? Right. Correct. It's beautiful. By the way, it's beautiful. When you export is great. Really love it. Are you pulling it into Excel? Yeah, I've tried XL and libra office.

Okay, so in Excel? Are you just right clicking and opening it? Or are you using the data CSV import? I'm right clicking and opening it. Okay, I do data CSV import. Yes. So instead of doing that, open up Excel by itself, then go to the Data tab. Ooh, hold on. This is sexy because let's let's do it live. I like this. Yes, zoo. Okay, I got new new workbook. Okay, what people love to listen to this other people talking about how to do this fun, sexy, okay, from text. CSV, right? I got that on the

data tab and then and then pull in that file. Okay, hold on. I'm telling you. It looks awesome. Oh, this is interesting. Okay, here we go. Yeah. Was it damn with pivot tables? No, no. Stop, stop. You're kidding me? No, the emojis are the whole thing is beautiful. As Should I just hit Load or transform data? What does this load load? Yeah. I'm gonna give you that full load the whole load. Oh, wow. I've never seen Oh, whoa, whoa, that was really cool. It's all green. It has Yeah.

Now let me see. Yeah, and look at the pivot tables. It's up you can sort and isolate just individual shows. This is exactly what I needed. Now. I'm still unfortunately, only getting to up until February 1 209 records. I know. Okay, and someone is sending the wrong shit. Who's sending this who's sending is what's wrong? Someone's sending something the wrong way. Fountain seems to be weird sometimes. No, that could just be spill over the field I guess. Okay, Oscar.

Your Podcast Okay, so I can sort by this. That's my pivot table. Oh my goodness. If you get to the top of the podcast called dad like you can just say only show me more facts or only show me this. Oh, gosh. Ah, sexy. Yeah. In that awesome. It looks so much better than that stupid raw CSV import that though it does if you right click is it this is an Excel thing though. Excel does this for you, Microsoft. I hate you. Okay. All right. That's cool. Dave That is yeah, that that makes

all the difference. We just need a well I of course what I've done is like a little translator table for the current bitcoin price to change the milli SATs into fee formulas. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Deep into formulas. Oh, yeah. I'm hacking this spreadsheet Dave. are going away. Okay, so it's so it's just a matter of that. Anyway, forget all that. Congratulations on the release because it's version 0.19 I should say. You really nailed what podcasters need.

Someone tweeted. Someone tweeted earlier today. I don't know who it was Tina saw too. And, and the tweet was something like, Hey, I made you know 350,000 SATs last month compared to $27 I usually make with advertising I'm never looking back. Oh yeah, that was Kevin rook from Kevin roach. dadoes Kevin rook right? Yeah and and so not only don't forget don't forget the the end of the post which he said and it takes forever to get your check from you. Yes. Instant settlement here. Exactly.

What is so beautiful now with heli pad is exactly I had a problem. I was always worried that you know, my tour thing isn't working. So every morning I'm boosting myself which as we know is illegal and 1737 states The United States way to start a day though it is kind of an eye opener Hey, there we are, Dave it's gone downhill since the COVID. Dick sorry about that. Yeah. Never should have brought that in. So now you see this the your your balance up top. And and

then when a stream a payment comes in, it pulsates. And confetti spews over the screen, it is on brand it is on message. And it makes me feel good. It makes it as a podcast or as a lifelong broadcaster since I was 13. The only thing you want to know is how far does my signal reach? He's someone listener. So when we had the ability to connect the phone line, yeah, I was like, Oh, someone's listening. They called me but now you see the listening. Podcasting 2.0 See the listening.

Running with Scissors. See the listening is exciting is all hell. So I took the confetti out of the stream because I was afraid the background stream payments because I'm afraid that if if like four or five people are streaming all or more streaming all at once, it would just be this confetti, you know, just this constant so when what triggers it then isn't a new payment isn't to boost the boost. So only boost trigger confetti, the background streams now only just flashed the

balance update. So did you know that somebody know is going but it's but I'm getting? I'm getting a confetti with the balance update. Boom, there go. Are you? Yep. And I like it. Okay, well don't take my confetti away. All right. No, it makes me makes me happy. It's done. Done. We fix that bug is stopped. So was it supposed to not not be doing that this is maybe there's

something that didn't maybe some commit didn't take? I thought I thought that it did it was but you know, if you've ever looked at my development system, you would understand why I forget what I've done and what I haven't. Because it's basically everything that Alice gates wants you to do. I do the exact opposite. And so it's no wonder that that that I do not remember what I did two days ago, I suggest we

get some confirmation on this right away. Okay. And we bring in our guest board members who are who've been sitting patiently in the corner, of course. We get brought in the hummus for one of our guests just to just to piss him off. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to Royal board members. We have Sir Alex gates and Sir Brian of London joining us today. Hey, in the morning. Morning, in the morning, and more. Hey guys, how are you? Hey, guys.

There we go. Is it true Alex that basically my every bit of my development style is basically antithetical to everything that you stand for, as a human being, well standing for it, like I've done this stuff myself, but when you want to get professional about it, then being accountable for your for what you work on. So just let's let's just nail down some brass tacks here for the people who

aren't necessarily developers. What exactly could they be doing better at or as you would say out, like, I don't want to have this more professional would make him more professional. I'm already working on that. I already got him to switch to a GitHub project this week. Oh, okay. Oh, good now. Hey, guys, welcome. Glad to have you here in the board meeting. You have both of you actually been quite active with so much

development that I don't know where we can start. Dave, you should probably help us in guide us. Well, I want I want one of you, or both at the exact same time to talk about just the just the most recent update with POD paying. And I've got a bunch of questions and stuff in to talk about with it. But I want to just some somebody give a real quick overview on where what the changes are and what the updates are between 1.0 and 1.1. That's going to be Alec. I want to hear this one here about it

in in your words. So succinct, and then we can dig in. Yeah, I can give you the first shot on Branchville. And what are we talking about for people who have no clue? Yeah, so we're talking about specifically the popping hybrid project that we're working on, which makes it easy. I mean, it's what Dave uses to write the piping right. Piping the cloud.

Yep, that's the back end. Yeah. The most significant change for for For this version of pod ping, is we added reason codes, which I mean, we only had one reason code, which is it, a podcast was able to say no, we're gonna start a live stream, which we we've tested and worked worked out, we could even do for the shelf we wanted to. And then we also added medium codes, which

allows you to say, this is the medium type of this feed. So if it's a video and an app doesn't support a video, they can choose to ignore it. Excellent, me. So and we're using that already with three speaks. So all of three speaks pod ping announcements now say that it's video. And it's an update, as opposed to just podcast, which would be more normal for audio. Well, is there a live? Is there a live functionality within three speak? Is that being used at all there?

There? There isn't. But there is another streaming service loosely based around hive called Vim. Vim, yeah. vim.tv. And I'm talking with them, and they're interested in doing and they're a live streaming service, you know, a twitch replacement. And they're interested in looking at live for people listening to Alex and Brian are the essentially that y'all you guys are the ones who are writing all

of the pot PIN code. That is there's a difference between pot pink cloud and pod pink proper pink cloud is is podcast index is hosted. Front end for for pod paying itself. Pod on paying really is the hive writer, the hive writer is what you can give it some information about a podcast, and it writes it to the hive blockchain so that it becomes publicly available everywhere for everybody to see. The public cloud is just a front end to hive writer to make it easy for people to get on board.

And that's what I ping right with my script. Yes, yes, that's right. So so what Alex and Brian do they write, they write the code for the the low, the lower level high writer itself. So the there's going to be, so I'll take this one out of the way too, there's going to be a change, or there already has been a change to the way that the listeners the hive watchers. Neat, neat need to need to behave. I do want to run over that real quick, Alex?

Yeah, so I guess the backup a little bit. In addition to the hive writer, we're also we've also taken the task of defining the piping protocol. And what what that's evolved from from from one point now is, originally we were just saying, hey, this RSS feed has been updated. A listener can was able to, to receive those feeds, and assume that their RSS feeds and

parse them do whatever they want with them. What we added was the ability to discover what you know more information about that feed without sticking the entire feed itself into hive, which is kind of some people I think some people misunderstand what that is, like, we're not putting, we're not replacing your RSS feed at all. We're just saying, Hey, you could just you could tell people when it's been updated that as well as the

entire history of every feed that's ever been updated. But wait a minute, Alex, I heard for sure on a different podcast. This was an RSS replacement thingy. I think they're mixing it up with RS three. Oh, yeah. Cuz that's, that's, that's really simple syndication, RSS three. Yeah. The simple part starts with the algebraic equations that you need to understand in white paper. Right. Sorry, I didn't even didn't mean to interrupt, but it's this is a good as they call it explainer? Well, this is all

also not web three. So I'll throw that well. Fuck, fuck the terms. i We are so web three, it hurts. Come on. I mean, if you really want to talk about it, I'll tell you what, what this is the what popping is doing is it gives us a way to make these announcements these and the announcement is purely this has changed. That's it. And we've just added with the new with the new sort of protocol change in the background that Alex talking about. We've added weights just

to say just a little bit more information not too much. And it just, you know, it allows you to filter a little bit more with a with a little bit of ease. And but essentially it's just saying go pull this feed, it's made a change if you're interested in this feed. That's it. And that's the bit that's that's carrying on and it's been running you know nonstop now what for nine months, 10 months. It's it's quite I'm impressed I'm impressed with the back end of the, you know, the pod pink

cloud front end that that you've got day running for it. But that, you know, the issue with that is that's the bit that's not decentralized, but the whole system itself is going to be decentralized. You know, one day we're going to have these these entities like the hosts writing directly to the hive blockchain, because it's really not that difficult.

Yeah. And in fact, I already have a prototype of that working for Stephen belt for curio caster or Simon Fraser, I should say, we have a Docker image, and I have it to where I give him some JavaScript code to where he can run a serverless function and run a Docker container on Google Cloud, to publish a live stream notification. Can you can you flesh that out? And tell me how

that works? Because I thought I was just sort of tangentially following what exactly is is the what exactly is going on there? In Google Cloud, I mean, yeah, it's really not different from what you would do on on your desktop or server, if you run Docker command line, except they offered as a service in an API. So it takes the Docker container, it doesn't run as a server just runs as a command line application. And you give it the feed you what you want it to update. And it runs the

Docker container with those arguments, and then it exits. So knowing that from from JavaScript, how fast is there, never run a Docker container like that is sort of like an on demand function type situation, is it slow to spin up? Or is the container just so lean? That it's quick? The slowest part about is probably Google's API. Like if you do on your desktop, it's rapid. Yeah. So okay, I mean, it's under a minute still.

Oh, wow. Okay, so you don't really get penalized by the by the serverless function stuff. Yeah. So Alex, we know that three speakers is integrating some of this you have yet another hat that you were at no agenda tube, what's the status of that because I have such high hopes for for the web torrent and for everything that you've been putting together there. The status that is it's working for super super, super basic functionality. I don't have any other new podcasts 2.0 features or

anything except Alterna enclosure. But the the idea is once we get popping to a stable state, which is very, very soon, there's a couple more updates we are due for Dave, I want to be able to integrate that and integrate no agenda to live streaming per video as well. This is this, this is my ask. I have mo facts waiting in the wings. He's a he is a prototypical YouTuber. He does all of his last tapes and all this stuff live. And he uses the chat and the he doesn't use

Super Chat doesn't monetize. But he is ready. As soon as you know, as soon as the light is given to hook in a live stream into no agenda tube. So we can do the notifications and he wants to do we'll do the kind of the Super Chat analogy with with the booster grams in the live in the live stream. So he's ready to go whenever we are, I'm going to do is doing better. I'm going to integrate live chat and the no agenda tube and we're gonna

figure out how to do boost. And this is this is gonna be so big and we have ideas, man, we got ideas for this. They are you familiar with versus you were here versus but in what context that versus is a it's a hip hop battle. And it happens I think annually on an on streams on different platforms and YouTube as well. And, and it's so it's two different DJs or two hip hoppers. And it's like a battle and people vote. You know, with either thumbs up and I think they might be they

might do some super chats with that as well. But we're thinking booster grams and streaming SATs, you got the scoreboard for each one. It's all live, the whole thing is completely replicable in our environment. Yeah, I've actually seen some live streaming platforms that have built in verses like that great analogy, but they do it with their own tokens and the great thing here is Yeah, which is Bitcoin? Yes. And this is the versus audiences a huge cash app audience.

Which which which is Adams which is Adams code for black America, which is just what I know from mo Cash App Cash App rules, so you know, easy to fill up wallets. It's a it's a of course we're only talking to us only but I can't fix everything. Well, I thought a cash app was UK also it is yeah, but you know, it's not Australia then it gets no coverage in our news. I see. Our news doesn't cover say it's not Israel. Well, you guys got breeze man. What's your problem? This note we've got

she got everything there. Your central bank shekels. So I want to I want to finish up the what is popping kind of thing? Sure. Dave, you use you posted a Twitter. What did they call it some audio live stream from Jack Dorsey and to Corey. So I think the other day Oh, I haven't today, Twitter Twitter spaces. I can't wait to listen to that. He he said something really beautiful. And that discussion? kind of halfway through and that was do you centralize information discovery has been the most

difficult part ever since web 2.0 came out? And that really describes the issue of podcasting. One, podcasting. 1.0 right. Pod ping is a way to discover got new RSS feeds, but with the addition of the medium tags. We I mean, no one's done it yet. But we can have blogs, we can have films which I'm going to pod teen is is the podcasting platform, dare I say that?

Just sort of the argument of what podcasting is but uh, but it's it's, it's, you know, it's, there's, it's kind of a proto for proto form, you know, it's like a protocol and a platform at the same time. But you can build anything with podcasting off of pod ping, you could build an app could run on pod ping, I think I mean, you don't need anything? Well, you don't know it, because I haven't, I haven't got it to

show you yet. But there's an API coming out of South Africa soon, which is going to be the public open API for exploring what's happened on Pompeii. And it's cool built as part of the hive work. Oh, excellent. It's called the hive application framework.

It's a new part of Hive it. But it's specifically designed to make it easy to write apps that have a normal database, you don't have to think about blockchain, you don't, you don't have to be a blockchain developer, you just see a database and you'll see a database of all the pod pings. And then and then whatever you want to do with that you can do with that. And it's updated in real time, you know, three seconds after the latest pod ping, your tables are updated,

and you just call a database. And that's, that's gonna be available as like, you can just download and install it with Docker, or you can access the public API. We're working on that. That's really interesting, because that is a way to decentralize the functions of the index. I mean, not not the API functions, but a lot of the storage function. This is because it's not going to go looking at the feeds. No, it is going to be the place to find new stuff, because because

every new every active feed will be announced there. Once we get these sticky hosts to come on board, and it's really the ongoing back. That's a great catch, Alex and I haven't heard that that Dorsey thing yet. I can't it's on my list. Because the one thing that dislike the Holy Grail, where venture capitalists put hundreds of millions of dollars into discovery of podcasting, and this really invalidates all

those investments, like that so much. What it does it in a way to that is is permanent, and you know, and discoverable by anyone. Oh, yeah. Well, you I'd like a couple, Dorsey said in that same conversation. And I regret I don't I haven't heard it or clipped it I would have been great. I sat down to clip it all last night, and then has sat down and a heavy pad and intervened. No, no, I just sat down to clip it

all up and bring some clips to the show. And then like five minutes after I sat down my my 11 year old daughter gave me the she said the words that every parent dreads Oh with which is I'm pregnant I have daughters, I've stepped daughters and a daughter. Okay, this is this is what I'm thinking. No, no. She said, Hey, Dad, I want to play Minecraft with some buddies online and Oh, no. No, no. Hours crying more did server. No, no. Okay, so that's

that was the original thing. Like five years ago I was for sure is Hey, Dad, can you install a mod for me? And you're like, No. I'm gonna really just JavaScript I grabbed from a random website. Yeah, exactly that nothing bad will happen. But now it's even though it's you know, like it's all on the Xbox. So I had to fight for two hours of you're not all your family security settings will not allow you to join online games and I was on Microsoft's website, like trying to change. Like doing

family. Man, that's hilarious. Yeah. You missed this whole thing, Adam. Well, yeah, well, you know, right now it's like it's the opposite. I want my daughter to get pregnant. Come on. Grandpa already. I'm waiting for a girl hurry. Oh, well, Minecraft is not the route to pregnancy. So that's a great prophylactic. It's beautiful. Yes, it is. Yeah. But yeah, I was gonna say is that when what he talked about is that discovery is the the cause of centralization. Like that's

why things centralized? Yes, yes, to make discovery possible. But this with POD ping, you end up there. Everything is decentralized. But it's still discoverable. And it's it's discoverable in a permanent way. Like, Alex out, I'm misquoted. I attributed this. The this to Chris Fisher, which is really, really Alex, who said this a few weeks ago was that pod paying is a distributed message bus for podcasting. And that's exactly that's exactly right. Yes, everybody can hook in and get

all the same information. It is it is the opposite of anything you can do platform it is it is so big. I mean, I've seen I saw it from day one. It's like, once, once it dawned on me, which you understood much quicker than I did, Dave. But once I saw it, I'm like, holy crap, this is what everyone's been talking about. And all this money is, is Spotify, just bought companies that have some version of this, you know, of this discoverability factor, in this case, they tied into

advertising. But this, this is beautiful. I want to just point out one one part of it that I think is, is misunderstood and overlooked, which is that the reason we can do all of this is because we were putting these messages into a system, which whilst we are not directly paying for, we are paying for by having an investment in it. Okay, that's the, you know, that's the amount of hive that I've raised and stake and you know, it's about 4000 or $5,000 Worth, it's

really it's not a big amount. And it's not it's not spent money. But that's our stake in the ownership, partial ownership of Hive. And you can ask some questions about this. I know very little about it. So this is a high, high blockchain as a staking based systems, I understand it. Yeah. And we don't have a gated proof of stake. And we don't have to go too deep. But what is the ratio of usage versus stake EJ that you have to have? So you say, three $4,000?

That's a lot of money to some people, a lot of money to a lot of people. So I just tried to understand how much do you need in order to utilize the system? Is there some kind of key that I can understand like, well, if I'm doing this with it, or if I,

you know, what I'm saying? It's based on, it's based on a system called Resource credits, and you use up resource credits, which are a renewable resource, you, you know, you get them, they recharge all the time at a rate dependent on your investment in

the system. And your resource usage is based on basically how much data and how quickly you're putting it into the chain, how much how much data you're writing, so we're writing these pod paying, got it, and we write what, four or 5000 a day, which is us, you know that on any other blockchain that would be a crazy amount of transactions. But that turns out to be point, one 6% of that type of transaction where we're

miniscule where we're minnows, nobody even notices pod ping. So that investment and to be honest, is you know, I'm, I'm over invested because I'm investing in the whole system as as you know, just just to support it. But the point about

hive that makes it different is the way it was born. There is no owner there is no venture capital there is no single owner there's nobody who has more than 3% we think and that means it is truly independent there's no CEO there's no office there's no address there's nowhere to serve legal papers you can't you which is 5g is unique, which is unique in the world of proof of stake if I'm wrong if I'm going Yes, Bitcoin is the only other thing

I think that's like that. You know, there's just nobody you can go nail a sign on the door and say, say come to court with it. You can do that there are front ends to hive there are, you know, websites like Hive dot blog or peak d.com, you can find the owners of that. But the underlying system, the database, the bit that we're using, you can't find it. It's distributed properly. This is thank you for that explanation, I understand I have a better grasp on it. And so I'm right. This is this is

true web 3.0 where the stakeholders run the system. And the stakeholders benefit however they need it. Yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it. And then, so take that VC. Yeah. And it's kind of web three in reverse. Because podcasting has been around for so long. We're just taking that way of standardizing information to applications and telling you where it is, then what and what happened? Well, let's talk about that, then. So you're

so a, a pod, a pod paying, enabled host or platform. Let me let me figure out how to describe this. I think people don't understand what you can actually do with POD ping. What what they hear is, it's a way to see when feeds update. Okay, fine. Yes, that is true. It's now become a way to see when feeds update with appropriate data attached to that to know why it's updating and for and, and what that means.

But think about it more broadly, if you're a hosting company, or an app, or some sort of third party platform like analytics, or a publisher, think about the types of data that you can glean, if you have a low noise ratio, constant stream of

podcast activity that you can watch. So you could for instance, do something like, look at all these shows that you know, are highly successful, and look at their growth curves, and then correlate that with how many times a day they are, how many times a week they publish, or what days of the week they publish, or what time of day

they publish, or how long the shows are. But once you have this sort of low signal to noise, high signal to noise ratio, message system, you can look at all those sorts of things and go back and remember, it's permanent. So you can go back in time, you can say, Okay, over the last year, these these shows on my platform have have peaked, and then the advertisements

were, you know, successful here and had a good return. And they, you know, these other, you can do all these correlations between the activity you see, without having to have to deal with all of that noise. It's just things like that, where you can, if you think more a little bit beyond the immediate

technology of it, you can see how powerful it becomes. Is that fair, and that's without running the podcast in because you can you Dave, who sits at the center of something called podcast index, which is quite a big expensive thing to run, you could work all of that out. But now, what we're going to have going forward is a way to just tap into that same information really cheaply. And, and, you know, there's a philosophical I, I got onto hive, like two years ago, after being chucked off

Facebook, and it was a philosophical switch. Everybody was was all upset that Facebook and you know that they're paying huge fines. Now Facebook was, you know, selectively giving your information to this party or that party, Hive, everything I everything I click on is public. And you come to understand that, you know, if I'm going to be on social media, if I'm going to be acting in public, I might as well just assume that everything I do is public, because it's better that

way. And when you're publishing a podcast, everything you do is public. You know, when you press publish, the whole world can see it, but it just up to now you'd have to look all over the web to you know, 4 million different places to find out when everybody published. So this centralize is where you look to see that information, but still in a decentralized way. It's

really different. It's beautiful. I learned yesterday I made a mistake and I put the wrong image size in the RSS feed instead of minimum 2000 by 2000, which is the Apple requirement. I put the five whatever, five 520 Whatever it is 520 by 520. And Apple won't publish They won't, it will not surface on their app if you have the wrong image size. Oh, it just won't even show it. Oh, no, they will not publish it. And I know and I know, because we have a producer who approved it manually.

After nine hours, like it's out of that. Yeah. Yeah. He said, Dude. And this happens a lot with me. Because it's not it's, you know, I change the album art all the time. And I make mistakes. I make stupid mistakes. It's my fault. But the fact that it doesn't even publish that's whacked. That's weird. You would think that it would publish and just have like, no, if your image it's a trap, if your image size is not correct on Apple, they do not publish it. Because you

know, it might hurt the user. That's for the the overall image for the whole feed. It's it is it's a night I've been dealing with that with three spit, because we don't, we don't actually have a 2000 by 2000 image anywhere. And it's it's been a pain in the ass doing everything to comply with that. Just one and it sickens me. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, I'd like to throw all my images out there, which of

course I can do. I know. And we have that capability. And we have it, it's built into sovereign feeds, I still have to create them. But it's, anyway, just as an aside, all these all these hoops all fall away? Well, there's at least three is at least three more podcast hosts that I know of that are going to need are going to be coming on board with Todd ping. Excellent.

And pretty soon. And I think that it's, it's clear, if you're not doing this, you're not your podcast host your words I was going to use, we'll go with, if you're not if you're a podcast host and you're not doing it. I just don't understand why it doesn't make it. So here's, here's another use case, just they just start hitting you as you think about this stuff. Another use case, a new podcast

platform comes online. And we get requests for this all the time, I get three this week, three emails from different people saying, Hey, can I use the index database? What are the terms of service, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We're building a new app or a new platform or whatever. And so imagine, imagine a future where piping is the standard, with the way everybody distributes new new feed update

notifications. A new platform coming on board can then take take a database like ours or some database, they can walk back or they don't even have to download the database, they could walk back in time on the blockchain, and see all of the feeds that have published updates over certain let's just say a year. And they can choose to only pull those in and only operate on those database and say, okay, the rest of them are not near a pod faded or whatever. These are the types of

things that you can do. And when you're a participant in it as a hosting company, pushing that data out there. You are making your job in the future easier. And cheaper. Yes, you're using the whole Yeah, go ahead. Now. You don't have to work with this custom API's to submit feeds. Yeah, don't have to go to Spotify or Apple, say, hey, we need an API key to submit this new feed. Just put it on parking. Well, that's how I got all of the three speed feeds, you know,

to you, you know, I was using the app. But from the start, as soon as as soon as the show updates, put it on pumping, you ingest it going forward. That's the way to add feeds to all indexes because it's so easy. It's public. It's it's, it's low abuse, you know, and we haven't seen any abuse yet. There are ways to deal with abuse, because, you know, we can, we can choose who to ignore. So if somebody is abusive, we'll just ignore that their pings, they'll put the pings on the blockchain,

we'll just put them on our list that we just don't see them. But that asks censorship as a banker. Yeah, exactly. If you don't want to see that stuff, you won't have to see it. If they would be so kind as to use pod ping. Well, so sorry, go ahead. I was gonna say, can we talk about live plugin? And this is really for Alex, I guess. What? With live?

What is that going to look like from the apps perspective? Can you describe sort of like a minimum viable product for allies for a live interface on the podcast app side? Yeah, so the minimum minimum viable product is they have a server somewhere and they're watching the hype blockchain and they get every block they get everything for every block. So I mean, it's not

ideal right now. They get the fire hose of five. And then they know when they watch for the piping live events and if they A, you know, have any podcast listeners that are subscribed to that feed, they can send them a notification using whatever notification system they have. Now, is that too high level? Or? No, I'm playing I was thinking the only question I had was like, What about a? You're going to be did apps going to need some sort of like web hook or something to where they can get

notified? Or do they need to just? How does this get to the point where they don't have to pull or look at the block chain? Constantly? So there's two solutions there, Brian mentioned the first one that he's working on. But that's for like super heavy apps that are, you know, really, really on hive, to have I love application framework. Right, right. But I will also be working on a, I'm going to probably some kind of lightweight hive notification framework.

For applications that don't really care about how accurate some of the blocked updates are, which for livestream notifications, it doesn't matter that much. So what will happen is, it's not built yet it didn't start in the code. But what will happen is you could tell the server, which feeds you're

interested in and how you want to receive updates for them. And then the server might give like, you could maybe give it a web hook or, you know, a WebSocket or something, and then it will give you give you the feed updates that you're interested in. And why that's important as that could work with a headless server as well. So like in a pod, or Kara cast or whatever. It'll be super lightweight and energy efficient for phones.

And I haven't done it yet hive application, the hive application framework will or will ultimately be the lightweight back in that that's listening all the time to the hive blockchain and feeding the information in which can then be redistributed as WebSockets, or whatever, whatever sort of mobile friendly format, we need that just so it's so it becomes like,

a tree, you know, an upside down tree. So, you know, it's got all the data in the center, but you just slowly send it off in this direction and that direction, depending on which client needs what, maybe not, not consulted me on whatever at the hive allocation framework, so

I don't really do other things. Yeah, I don't really, I think it's too much for our use case, but maybe some historical context of why they made that is it can be pretty tricky for an application to know when a block is finalized. Which is more important for currency and token transactions. Yeah, it doesn't matter for us really, like you're talking about eventual consistency, sort of like as applied to a

blockchain. But yeah, there's about a 40 sec 42nd to one minute, period in which, if you're being really for Nikiti on hive, you should wait for witnesses to attest to the transaction for all the witnesses to agree and then every now and then, PIF does micro fork all the time with little, little silly details, you know, sort of whether someone clicked like on a social post or not, that micro forks out from time to time that

question that doesn't affect us question for Brian. So hive is a token what happens with the the usage of Hive does the value of the token go up? Versus fee like the US dollar? Is it something I should I should buy just to invest in the network? Is it something that I should buy as an investment is it you know,

tell me about the financial side of the token. And and is there any risk of that just becoming a crazy, like, you know, Ico type shit coins situation where it kind of loses that functionality and is more about making, you know, money on investment. That's, that's such a big area now, not financial advice. For example, when we started doing pod ping, I think hive the price

was around 20 or 30 cents. It's now just around $1 It just dipped below $1 Now, so actually most of the most of the hive power that I've locked in to do pod Ping has appreciated tremendously and I've you know, on paper we're ahead. I'm not going to say invest in hive but I'm going to say that it's what makes it stand out and different from all of that Ico noise and all of those other coins. The coins is the way hive

was born. I was born in a war you know there was this I won't go into the it's too is too big a story but high was born because of an alien invasion. Someone came in tried to sell it man, this is great. Yeah. Warren in an alien invasion, it was, it was an alien invasion. And this is the thing about delegated proof of stake, and it's really important is that we don't, I don't want to run a

server in order to have a social media site, nobody does. There are actually 20, top 20, there are 20 Top witnesses on hive. And then there's about another 80 witnesses that they they do the heavy lifting of keeping this thing running, and they get

rewarded. And when the token price was down around six or seven cents, as it got to the bottom of the last drop, some of them were, it was hard to justify the cost of the equipment, but up at around $1. Everybody running the equipment that runs high, is making money and doing well, they're not super wealthy, they're not billionaires, there's no, there's no VC that's looking for an exit. But they're happy to

run the equipment because they're rewarded. And everywhere I look, all of the projects, all of the front ends that I use, people are making enough money to cover their costs and then some, and that makes a difference. And I'm funded by the the the dow of Hive, so I get a steady increase. Yeah, I have to pay, I have to pay Alex more. I just must get around to that. And you know, fed some back to, to podcast, the index, and I should do some more. But the

point is, this isn't it's not big cash. It's not the sort of $15 million funding that you get when you you know, sign up with a VC. But it's enough that the volunteers who love doing this are also not out of pocket doing it. And you know, that's value for value that that's the whole system operates and value of value. I'm not going to say by time, I think, you know, I've got a lot of Hive, and I've hardly bought any, I don't think I've really, I've earned it. I've written posts, I've been

paid. And it was because I was thrown off Facebook, and I started putting my energy into hive. But because energy and time invested in high for me, where, you know, I was just writing stuff and posting videos. instead of it going to Zuckerberg it went to me. Thank you. That's what I and I'm now you know not? I've got a few. I've got a small ownership stake in hive. And it feels much better to be using a system that I'm a part owner of.

Yeah. And you know what, make sure that you one more point about piping in general, is that it's not just podcasts. This is how we request YouTube. Yeah, weather. I mean, however you argue about the incentive structures of capitalism versus some inflation based token, which you know, Hive works. It allows you to distribute the storage of all those video streams. So you don't have to do 50 terabytes a second video streaming or whatever. I mean,

it's probably a lot more than that. But some, some some of those single live streams on YouTube when they get to 100,000. Viewers, it's literally 10s of terabytes a second. Yeah, you can't. I mean, no one can compete with that. The only way to do it is to separate this a distributed. Yeah, I mean, that's what my friends at three speak are

working on, which is a much bigger project. But it's about looking at this token omics, you know, how do we what made Bitcoin much more special than people realize is that it gave people an incentive to run a system. And to this day, it's worth running a miner because you get paid for it, you know, the amount the return on investment, after you've bought the machinery and after you've paid for the electricity, you make money. Same with most of the applications on hive, you

put in the time and effort, you can make some money back. Not vast wealth, I don't think but, but and that's what they're trying to do with video storage. You know, there's three components that make video difficult on the internet, there's, there's the actual storage long term, there's the quick delivery, so CD ends, and the discovery in the front ends, but they're trying to put in place proper financial incentives to to have communities that can store the

video for you and run up CDN. Now you don't need you don't need 1000s of CDN nodes, but you need some and you need some way to pay them. And it has to be an internal token system, which is trustless. And if people store and deliver video for you, you should pay them. Where should I Where can I buy a hive? Well, pretty soon you'll be able to buy it from me from lightning, but I'm doing the reverse high of lightning Rube Goldberg machine. Yeah. So you're you're a money

transmitter. Now Brian You are let's not say that I'm raising I'm I'm creating open source software that will enable anyone to run the service. Yes. You need to follow that with your honor. You're building like a dmg. traffics in Yeah, crypto do this. And I'll tell you what, before I went through the was it close? It's actually as a good trace. That's what hive has been hive has actually been, I think shunned by the big

boys because it doesn't have this VC thing. It's like, you know, what happens is behind the scenes, and I know this, because I know the volunteer people who are talking to the exchanges, the exchanges all want big listing fees, we're not going to pay those because we ain't got no big VC pot to pay, you know, to pay Coinbase whatever they're asking, Well, Jack Jack Dorsey made this, he made this point in that, in that Twitter spaces things he he spoke to his distaste of the VC backing of

web three, and how he's like, you know, hey, you know, web three is singing the song of decentralization. And while that may or may not be accurate, depending on which blockchain you're talking about, one thing is absolutely certain is that the VC money that is going into it is not decentralized, that that is all in one basket. I mean, there's a couple of really, two or three really high powered VCs that are funding a

lot of this stuff. And the when the VC money gets in there, your web three claims tend to meet to fall a little bit hollow in it. But this is happening everywhere. And I just had an interesting, I'll just call it web three, but maybe Gen D, D, sin generation decentralized. So someone on Twitter pinged me and said, Hey, man, if you're looking for for some fiber out there in the hill country, you

should check out next stream. And so, you know, someone contacted me and like, okay, incident, can we come out Friday, so this morning, they came out the CEO, this is a small local company that have 400 miles of dark fiber. They, they have their own backhaul straight into all the exchanges. And then like now, fuck it, there's so many people out here who do not want to be connected to spectrum, which is our only choice. And he says, No, we're, we're almost almost level Co Op.

And so they have no huge investors that they have to have an exit for. And they just, they just want to provide good service without tracking and all kinds of crap to, you know, over to not a small community hill country. And I see this more and more, we're kind of going back to what it was. Yeah. Yeah, I can see, I mean, cuz that's really where this stuff is. That's where the web 3.0 becomes, what it claims to be, is when it becomes decentralized on the money side of it, as well

as the technology side. Because I mean, because otherwise, we we did the tendency is going to be to re centralize I mean that centralized data, so you can do so do you want to wet three, come a web three, whatever it might be Startup Platform, who is still selling everybody's data on the back end. I mean,

like that is out. And and what Brian is doing, I think is is the future of these types of developments, as much as it pains me to say, because hive, but where when you decentralize the money, then you in essence, create an opportunity for a type of defy where people can invest. So that's where you have the the high fund and you know, the Dow that he's talking about for those that are no decentralized,

autonomous organization. And it's all based upon open source money that is accountable, trackable and programmable, so that you can have certainly, because you have some kind of democratic system where people vote Okay, Brian of London, you're going to get X amount of funds to work to get hundreds of votes. Yeah, hundreds of people to vote for me. Now. It's stake weighted. So there are some big whales who vote and you know

that, that that's how it should be in a democracy. Yes, how it should be the more money the more votes, screw it exactly. But, but, but the point, actually, is that some of the biggest guys who voted for me, they voted last, and they waited to see the level of interest. So I, you know, getting 100 votes from people whose vote was worth point 00 1% of what I needed. That is what got me the votes of the guy who could vote 20% It

is. It's a very important check and balance. And what it also means is that there's no one person on high, who can deny me? There's no one big enough to to veto me. You know? And that's, that's the point, you know, I'd have to piss off a large number of important people. But it's not like having a boss, but I feel accountable to this community. I have to write posts and what I'm doing, I have to show them progress. It's much better than having a real job,

but it's still it. I think it's the it is it is an alternate future. It's not that the thing is, it's not going to produce the you know, the speed of progress of a Facebook that can just throw, you know, I disagree. I disagree. I disagree, man, look, look at look at what we've achieved a year and a half. And Facebook is still doing podcasting. Somehow, someday. You kidding me? No, no, no, no, no. And of course, it helps that Brian married in Arabian princess with her own dowry. I really didn't.

Know, please. All right. Let me bring it back to the technology, the party pooper. The. So why am I getting beam API errors? What is that? Because I haven't turned off the warning level and the Python. I'll do that. And then just hide. I thought you did that. No, I downloaded Yeah, I had that. I did I need to check. I

need to switch into a different. There's there's different Python libraries, and we'll get into but they're just they're nonsense warning was really and then you know, the thing is, you're dealing here with API's and the back end, just the ping pong ball isn't hitting the spoon, right, Dave? Yes. You know, even Facebook went down. Remember that? Oh, no,

please. Yeah, no, no, you get no pass for that? No, but but the point here is that I think that there are probably 30 to 40 significant individuals involved in running the API infrastructure of high. And it is not a simple thing. It is really not a simple thing. And the fact that they and they're all running different versions of the software that they're on different. They're in different cloud servers all over the

place. Some of them are in that, you know, my friend runs a witness node in his apartment in Tel Aviv, and a backup in his office across the street. This is it is peace Robinson. But because it's his Robertson, you can't go shut it down, because you can't walk into a service center and pull the plug somewhere. Well, and the reason I brought it up was because what when I was trying to troubleshoot that this morning, Alex made the point as I restarted the service, restarted

the hive watcher. And he noticed that what I can't, I said, I don't think I was getting hive updates. And I'm still, I'm actually not clear if I was or not, because the the logging that that that logging was covering so much of the screen that I couldn't tell if anything else was coming through. I think I was actually getting still updates. But I was coming in and obscure the standard error was obscuring standard out, I think, is what was happening. But I'm not sure about that yet. I get

it. But then when I restarted the service, yeah, yeah. And Alex made the point, he said, and you didn't miss any updates, which is because it goes it goes back and picks it all right, then that's what people need to understand when you're watching pod paying member is permanent. So if you're, if your system goes down, like or begins to air out, or something like that, and you have to reboot, or you have to make a configuration change,

or you need to do something different. You just restart it, and it searches back an hour, and picks up where it left off. And you get all the stuff that you missed. I mean, it's that's one of the most beautiful parts of the system. Can we switch gears to activity pub cross app comments? Yes, I want to hear what Alex has, he has to say about where you think this? What do you think? What do you think is going on? That we need to be careful of or switch gears or liming? Give me your thoughts, Alex.

So back when we first started talking about this middle last year, some time when, you know, it was kind of hot and heavy that died off. We had some proposals and some developer meetings. The Martin and Paul friend was upset that by default, you couldn't comment on every podcast, which was the understandably confusing user

experience for an end user. And I had come up with possibilities to work around that by basically providing a default comment for every podcast, you know, at the time I was thinking it was be the podcast index or we know whatever doesn't really matter who and I had come up with a way to Call back, like, you know, provide, you know, you know, the way you do with podcaster wallet where you would provide a default, you provide a default lightning address and that RSS

feed has their own, then you, you know, you choose theirs. Right, we could have a way to provide a default comment, you know, through some service through an API and then call back to an original comment while retaining some of the original posts that was shut down at the time. I don't really know why. You know, people's opinions change.

I, it feels like, this is turning into a nice, you know, having default comments on some, you know, intention is not decentralized service, you know, podcast indexical so far with a centralized service, but you know, you don't have to use it. It's not the same as comments. I could see inviting a lot of potential for people being upset. And not a bad thing. But I feel like I feel like the the alternative way to do that would just speed up provided period count

service. Wait, could you break that down or abstracted a little bit more from me, Alex on to understand what exactly might happen that might get people upset? That's, that's the only thing I can understand. Um, well, I mean, if we start inviting comments on every single podcast, you know, people have no idea about podcasting. No, there's some comment about them. That didn't sign up for comments. I see mean, people putting a comment and then they

like shit, I don't want my comment there. And I want to take it off. And it's there for good. No, I think I think about the podcast or, you know, some some random podcaster has no idea about podcasting, or something. Somebody uses podcast to run our app to comment about them. They want to know how to get rid of it. How is it any different from Apple comments or reviews or whatever? It's not right. People. brown nose, Apple. Thank you, I think. Well, I think, though, that that's a

good point, though. We say How's it different? I think there's two sides to that. The the most obvious side is it's the most obvious answers is not. But there's also another part, it also should be different. Like, so I think both of those things can be true at the same time. You know, it's not necessarily different. But actually what we're building should be better. And it should be different. But okay, but if we're concerned, okay, just so I understand the actual issue.

So the issue is, I didn't want comments on my podcast. Thank you very much. And now here's these 10 apps that have these comments that I don't like that I can't get rid of, is that what the problem is? perceived problem? I mean, people complain about this today with, you know, centralized services. I don't know why the arguments are different from those. I'm just I'm just asking that. That's the, that's the warning is that

could piss people off. That's the danger. Okay. So which, which means that there's, I mean, the only way to do to do that, I guess, would be to have some kind of extra tag that says No comment. Let's see, what we're talking about backing up for a second is so Spurlock John's burlock. Did did a version of what Alex proposed last year, which was he just spun up. And I mean, literally last night just spun up a new service, the mini pub, is that what that is? No, this is podcast. social.org. Oh, is

this this is essentially a headless mastodon. And it's a beautiful system. And the way he did it was B looks like he's he did this the right way. It's a headless Mastodon type system, where, you know, it's got an API in front of it, where I can call the API, if I have, if I have keys, I can call the API in for a podcast, spin up a route post comment that I can then get back and put into for the app. So for apps to know about so I can call out and say

here, I want to route post. And then I put that in the feed. And then everybody picks up that social interact tag and sees the route post and then other activity post servers can comment on it. Now that that, in turn gets seen by all the apps, and then they can display the comments. I think Alex is saying that the danger there is that all of a sudden now you have apps, you have comments showing up in apps, that the podcaster may not

want that to be a function? Now, the, your, your comment about is that different from Apple is is correct. It's not different from Apple. And to make that point, it's not different from Apple or good pods, or pod chaser or any of these other services, they all do that and you as a podcaster cannot control what you get as a podcaster cannot control with the fact that some platform spins up and allows people comment on your podcast,

and you just gonna have to let that go. You can't do that. But I think in time, I think before this is all said and done, though, my feeling is a lie. I like the breaking the chicken in the egg that this represents. And I think that's why Alex initially had that doll last year is because you got to figure out some way to break the chicken egg problem with with a protocol like with an issue like this. But before it's all said

and done. And before, we have to figure out some sort of way to make that problem better than what exists now. Whether it's a no comment tag or whatever, we there does need to be a way to make this thing fixable. This is a beautiful graphic representation of what what's going on on podcast social.org This is really nice. Yeah, it's done a good job here. I mean, I guess index is social. No podcast. social.org. Does this. Yeah. That's that's for

lots Hello, running with scissors. It's what we do. Of course, it's confusing, but Alright, so now in this case, the podcaster would publish the root post using this system using this kind of headless Mastodon shim. Right. That's, that's the intended use. Now, if I have a, I have an API key and Spurlock sent me one last night. I could technically spin up a root root post for any podcast, I want it right. So that's the therein lies the problem is got it.

Yeah, right. Yeah. So to be clear, I'm perfectly fine with the delegate service for a podcast with us. Right. In fact, I think he should make them pay for it. Yeah. That'd be a great service. Doing it by default. And maybe you misunderstood some what some people said. I, I think the sheer hypocrisy of complaining about comments or reviews on closed stores, closed ecosystems, but wanting to hear is just insane. Well, that if the I think the idea of having it be a paid

service is absolutely 100%. Legit, I hope I hope that he does make it a paid service. Because that even more reduces the, the potential for shenanigans. Right? But but you still have to put the the root post into the feed. Am I not correct? Yeah. So so the way this is is like, okay, so what I do is I take you know, take a photo and put a make a comment, thread, post a route post is what I've been doing to Yeah. And I take that and I give it to you, or you see me, you take your URL, paste it

into the feed? Well, that's because I have a mastodon account. I know I understand. So so you should definitely be paying for, for using that or set up your own Macedon account, whatever. So this seems like a pretty because I guess the bottom line is, there's no danger if you don't want these comments, it to appear in the apps then don't put a root post in your feed is that isn't doesn't that solve everything? It does is as long as you don't have D 5000. Yes, default? Yes.

Yes. As long as it's not okay. So Alright, so now I remember the the original conversation. And that was it. Right? I think it was Martin who said well, I don't want to have an app that only has the capability to comment if the podcaster has has enabled that he says and he's looking at it from the pod friend friendly app, where everything's obvious and so for him it was not obvious for for you be able to comment on on one show, but not on the other

because they're not 2.0 or whatever. So he's looking at it from a customer standpoint, from what he wants to deliver, which I personally think is the wrong way to look at it. I mean, that then you might as well put in a fake value block for everybody. Now or or chapters or whatever or did the then you know what I have a transcript for no agenda, but I don't have it for DHS unplugged.

Yeah, there's a, I feel like this is this is sort of where thing, this is where we already, we always knew this, we knew this from the very beginning that comments was going to be the hardest thing. And it's not is hard, not just for technical reasons, but also for political reasons, and social reasons. And all those things, because social networking and commenting is hard by itself. So this, I think there's multiple problems that

are being that that have to be addressed. I think John, is addressing one of those issues, but just, you know, rolling the sleeves up and building a service that works like this. And he's, he's solving the issue of, there's a chicken and egg problem, we got to get some, we got to get that broken somehow. And also, people need to see things they don't, most normal people don't think in terms of protocols and white papers and specs, most people think in

terms of shiny things. And so having a website that, that looks having a website, this looks good, explains everything, and then also has an API attached like this sort of canned, nice system that you can use as a stop gap. I think he saw that as just, you know, let's just this this is a way to move this thing forward and get some traction here. Then, in the future, you know, this becomes a paid service, or however that worked. And then everybody else sees that it works and can run

their own systems on the each on their hosting providers. And I do, I'll say that, you know, channeling my inner talk Cochran yet again, I will say I know of at least one host that is seriously, you know, looking into cross app comments, because cross comments can be a way to really, to really make make a visual impact on the podcasting experience. Tell us I know, I know, people are looking at this and to and taking note of the way thing of the way this stuff

works. And so having something visual out there, I think will help to let everybody because some some, you know, some hosting companies are very visionary. They look forward to things, other hosting companies, they just need to be sort of, you know, beaten over the head with it and say, Hey, so now here's here's the reverse issue. I'm just thinking through. Now, for a podcast app, in order to comment, you need to have the user needs to have access to an activity pub account.

That's what so that's what John Spurlock is solving with any pub, which is great. That's what a podcast app can use to they can they can integrate that right into the code. You mean. Right? There's still do their own account system and so forth. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. And so that's something that the podcast app developer runs centrally on their server. Or is it something that that goes right into the code for the app itself? I think he's got they can run running Cloudflare

serverless. But yeah, it's still their service. Okay, well, I think we've solved it, when do we start building it? So my question my question to you as when thinking about this last night, it I kind of had a hard time sleeping because Birla released this right, you know, got it like nine o'clock. And I was trying to figure out what my thoughts were on us texting you and stuff. What? How can can comments when things are commented on?

Couldn't that be on a pod? On pod ping as well? Did there's been a new comment at some point in the future, like, like somebody has commented, or so review live quiet here. Because you miss and let me be clear, Brian, this is not I'm not talking about putting my comments themselves on hive and talking about them. Notice, I'm also I'm also not as well, because even with three speakers stuff, when we're looking, you know, one of the

big guys bind freespeak, they call me down his name. He keeps saying, you know, we're gonna look back in 10 years time, and we're going to look at LOL, and we're going to be telling our kids that was the days when we could still post lol on hive, and it didn't cost a fortune. But it so I don't think carrying vast quantities of ephemeral comment traffic is the future

for hive. But I keep coming back, you know, it's like it's always I'm always looking, who's running the service and who's incentivized to run the service. So as long as there is a service that a podcaster or someone has to pay for, to make sure that It's gonna be there. You know, I'm okay with that. As to as to announcing all the comments on pod ping. That's the same as storing them to be brutally honest. I mean, most comments

are not much longer than the link to them. So, you know, if we were going to announce them, we could just post them on that? Well, there's two parts of this question. So by default, activity streams, which is what activity pub uses, is the mechanism that sort of is getting noticed get notified into comments. That's already built into the system when someone posts on no

agenda social, that the server sends an update to my guest. And if that social, if you're following them already, the mechanisms of how that works and everything gets cached and so forth is a lot more complicated. But theoretically, no, we don't need that. But that's redundant us. Yeah. And it's not a perfect system, either, you know, different servers work differently. So it could

probably be improved. However, that does bring up the the topic of how do you notify an app or a server user, the external content has been updated in the feed. It applies to images and so forth. Right, exactly. And we want to avoid that that's, that's the hardest problem we haven't popping right now. Because we only have so much available bandwidth, so to say, to send updates, and I'm trying to think about how to do that efficiently without DDoS and servers.

And that could be applied to comments, too. So. Okay, now's a good discussion, because that yeah, I can see the issues there. That has to be tread that that's ground that has to be tread carefully. Yep. Shall we? thank a few people, Dave? Oh, yes, sure. Yeah. And I want to remind everybody, this is a value for value podcast, the whole podcast index project is value for value.

Interesting thread this morning, although I, I typically despise people saying, you know, what does it cost you to run this. But there was an interesting post, I guess, Marco talked about his server infrastructure in the context of Linode, being purchased by Akamai, and that he spends about $5,000 a month. So I just want everyone to realize that's, that that may be what Marco pays, but I'm just looking at the pure value. You know,

there's, there's 15 apps running off podcast index.org. And that's the type of value it would take for those apps individually, to run a professional system, let's just say that's, that's the mark in the sand, it's not true. But the the value that this project brings, and that we need to continue to compensate, we'll just we'll only go up, we're keep working,

we're keeping it as lean as possible. And until we have a lot more value for value flowing, certainly with the with the streaming sets, we're going to need help, we're gonna need help all the help we can get we, you know, we do need a little bit of a war chest here. And it's an IT RIGHT NOW also liquidity wise on the node, we only have a couple million SATs left to open channels.

That's what I was actually talking to you about that Alex the other night, or the other day, it was we're talking about

liquidity and lightly liquidity and stuff. And that, you know, I had mentioned to you that we're like one of the things that podcast index tries to do on our node, that's why we don't ever take any money out of the out of podcast index out of the company, is because the, the money has to stay in there in order to weather the storm of let's just say we get six months with terrible donations, and we gotta have a big war chest in order to survive that, but also on the podcast and on the

lightning nodes. We gotta, we gotta leave all those stats on the server. So that those that those channels can be opened when people come in all the time, and we open channels to have 140 channels now. Yeah, and each channel is because you know, you have to be able to manage these channels. So for us, there's there is kind of like a lower limit. So we have to be at least 300,000 SATs. That's 150 bucks, we tie up for

someone who just bought a fucking Umbral node. So I'm just saying okay, just saying this has been this has been my you know, I I've come to love some aspects of lightning, especially the wallets, the lightweight wallets on phones, for that is fantastic. But on the backend side, the stupid habit expecting that this is going to be super distributed and millions of people are going to run nodes is ridiculous. I mean, I see what

it takes to run a node properly. That's changing. Brian, I'm going to stop you before you it is you embarrass yourself that's changing very rapidly. There's fast to come very, very rapidly, six months, they mean, it's happening very quickly, there's all kinds of noncustodial systems being built right now, that will, that will make this problem go away, at least and you know, people will have to pay. So you still have to pay for your liquidity. And you just won't have to manage that. That's Yes.

If we if one could my complaint is and let me let me let me call Manila doing the routing. Let me let me call me let me system let me qualify you won't have to put the liquidity in but you will still have to pay for liquidity that you're you have to pay for liquidity one way or the other. Now, it could be you know, one penny a month or or a point on your transactions, you're gonna have to pay for it somehow. And I understand that, you know, it's you don't like it?

Like it's not that I don't like it is that I want to look out there and understand that the network is sustainable without it being captured by a small number of venture capital things but that's not it there's no evidence there's no evidence of that happening and there's there's several I hate heavily venture capital funded. Lightning labs itself is heavily venture funded. I know I would say happy we route as many payments as anybody else on the entire net worth more we don't

make mine we're not it. What do you mean? Yes, we do. Our balance goes up all the time. You're talking about your your, your investment? Can Can someone make 6% a year on the on the on a balance of Bitcoin? Oh, no. No. 6% Were you getting out block fi in crypto.com? So the point is, hold on, hold on, hold on, Dana bull is that for Tomba sustained Hold on a second, don't get me started. That's all

shit coins. That's all tether type stuff that is in fact inflationary to the entire economy and weigh against that shit. You're not keeping your Bitcoin when you're doing that. And worse, those very companies that are giving you six 810 12% You have to have their shit coin, you have to have at least one other stable coin. And you don't own your Bitcoin and there you helping people short Bitcoin with it. I just say all of that.

I just, I'm just nervous about it comes back to what Moxie Marlinspike wrote in his blog post a few weeks ago, and he was hammering away at NF T's which I agree with the guy who sold out his company to a shit coin. Yes, but the point is, the point is not people just can't run servers, the vast majority of commerce, they won't have to that that's yeah, that's that's really nd now, just as an example, Brees is noncustodial.

The breeze app is your own node. Now. There's significant issues with mobile, for PC, I know for key send, but that's about it. And this is being solved is going to be solved as the you're going to see. In the next six months, you're going to see a huge shift in in the in the necessity for note. The the the liquidity requirements. I like that because not only custodial, but you still depend on them for for the channels, right. But yeah, what's going down the other day

for for a few hours and people were screaming and breeze. Yeah, you know, they had a complete Bobby but but that's and this is saying my note goes down whenever I upgraded it takes 10 minutes, and I need to move it off this up this raspberry pi because I realized now that that's way, way, way too underpowered for what's happening on my node. But but these are all these are all things that I I'm not, I'm not

an unfair of the system. I'm just looking and I'm hoping that it's sustainable without it being captured by big centralized venture capital. Right? I'm just just telling you, there's the venture capitalists are there, the huge wambo private channels, they're all there. We have built our own little micro network right outside of all of that and it works perfectly well. Good. It really does. Now, we don't make a lot of money.

routing the payments, we make 1% off of off of off of the transaction, which we're hoping will be enough moving forward. But everybody like you know, Alex, you're looking at your your system, you're going to charge people 20% So this is how it will work. And it will work. But no one can I mean it was built by venture capital. Let's just be honest about it. Lightning Labs is a 100% venture funded company. Jack Dorsey is all his own but you know all

other other people learned as well. And there's there's others. So it's venture capital breeze takes venture capital. So, capturing it, this is I had a conversation with my wife this morning says, Well, you know, you know, just all of these fuckers with, you know, all these big hedge funds and BlackRock, they want to come in and they want to buy up all the Bitcoin. And I said, so let's just talk about what that means because it can't be done. And here's why. So it's part of the

same ecosystem agree with that. But But Bitcoin Yeah, it's beyond that. I'm still skeptical. But using it. I'm using it every day. I'm building right now I'm building on it. I love it. And as I say, for the wallet, stuff on phones, there's nothing like it. But the process of snapping little QR codes. It just works. It's fantastic. I'm doing it 50 times a day internally, while testing. Right. But I'm looking forward to the day I can replace my day

job with it. But that's replaced what replaced what my day job with the Oh, well. You and me both brother. I want to replace Dave's day job. That's that's my mission in life is how do I get Dave away from that damn office to soul deadening job? Well, let's let's think some people think that was a long way around, wasn't it? Yes. Yes. These are people that are trying to also get us all away from our day jobs. Yes, they are. Shantell Angus is in his $350 Oh, is that a big baller? That's a big bus.

Blade. Oh, nice. Thank you, Chantal. Any No, no, no, no, no, thank you. That's what I'm talking about. Rick, from glued to the screens, and it's $100. No note. And another big. I mean, we had sad puppy last week. And now it's like, well, that's how it goes. That's that's you got to ask if you don't ask people don't help. Yeah, that those are two big papers for the week. Thank you, Chantal. And Rick, thank you very much. Yeah, that's great.

And if you have a note, please send it to me and I'll read it. I read it next week. I asked them both if they hadn't noticed and neither one of them responded. So outside of make good booster Graham from last week from Arno for 25,000 to 33 cents. I think he sent it to your boost monitor Umbral instead of to us Yeah. And he said thank you Dave for helping to send booster grams boost 25 Oh 33 And so what what was the the number of sets you had? 25,033 33 I don't see it.

Well, I'm going to credit me anyway. Yeah, no matter no matter what. Okay, sure. So we got seemly flip over here. Having to read these off the screen because my printer would not print. Okay, we get it Scott. S dot c dot O dot t dot t. Fountain gave us 10,420 SATs and he says go podcasting 2.0 puff puff pass. What is that? puff puff pass? Oh, seems like a drug reference to me. Dave. Sorry. A little slow on the uptake. Let me let me try it.

Now pass it pass it. No, no, not yet. Yeah, pro Pro. There we go. Over to you Alex. That will make you quit your day job. Not for good reasons. Cali bear of the intergalactic boom box and it's 25,000 SATs through fountain and he says the intergalactic boombox podcast that way so you still mess it up the intergalactic boombox podcast, podcast. Jet sets. Do you cool cats? Please hit me with a Paul Stanley boost. Oh beautiful. Thank you. Thanks for chatting the SATs brother.

Forged foe, sinister. Rove ducks and ethers tu tu tu tu through fountain and he says quack quack thank you for FFO blueberry. Says 8888 SATs boost. Oh, he sent it through the command line. He's old school. I'd love that. I love it's a boost chain. Yeah. Who's the next in the bouschet? Yeah, who's boosting in the chain? Yeah, I like this boost chain idea. Oh, here we go. Here we go. Through breeze 280 10,420 SAS holy crap just says paywalls are broken information wants to be free and

value unbounded. There GG. Aha. Did he All right, hold on. Let me give me my right the lightning boost. Me go. Thanks there Gigi. Yeah, we're having him. He'll be on the show in March already get it booked. Oh, cool. Now wasn't Gigi who said he he he retired at block 700,000 was was that dirt cheap? Or was it because I liked that because we determined yesterday you and I block what block height? 1 million. David. retiring. Yeah, we're out that 1 million blockout. 1 million.

We're out. Yeah, I wanna I want to start using a nem I'm gonna become a nem nem Yeah. And you know, the anonymous, you know, like, GG, that's not his real name. He's an anonymous, so block 1 million. I'm just gonna become like a, like a nim. So it's like the witness protection program. Yeah, okay. Yeah. I'm just gonna come back as DJ or something like that. And nobody know who I am Dave Jones. Yeah, yeah. Thank you there GG. We appreciate it. I guess it's just GG

G Jo. Jo. I don't know. J LT a TX Gil tax gave us 1024 SATs call that a kilobyte boost. Oh 1024 cents I like that. Yeah do fountain any just as boost yo that's Tina right yeah, it is. Yes. Our buddy Karen for the mere mortals podcasts in a rush boost 2112 una fountain

aces fantastic episode gents. I can give two endorsements for two Satoshis dot stream and for Oscars new inbuilt wallet for booster grams yay with with Satoshis dot stream I received the messages and telegram and on Discord plus a daily update and for my book review channel I use fountain which is really slick. Just just need to get working on my V four v podcast on Hello Pat and I'll have all bases covered. Oh nice. Very nice. Thank you

for this that's Karen. Best. Bessie UK. V si UK send us best. Se UK I think Bessie UK maybe. Okay. Send us 117 says through fountain and he says my podcast buddy and I just turned down multiple legacy advertising offers and made our podcast 2.0 compatible. Yeah. As one of the first non crypto oriented castes in Germany as far as I can tell, I wish you all the best Daniel from the Hildon LD. If you need a Deutsche boost go podcasting God podcasting Dodger boost podcast.

You sound so German when you do. Well. I have. I have I have that Aryan thing about me. Donation donations. Okay. 3300 SATs from Cass PyLint Ooh through fountain and he says thanks for the show. Thank you cast cast peatland from the Netherlands. cheese cheese peel and right cast cheese that would be it. Sir Doug's and his 4400 SAS through fountain and he just says boost Yay. Thank you, sir. Doug. Oh, sir Doug again. 4400 SATs again. Nice says I'm podcasting without consequences. Don't just post

route. ruse Ruiz Elgato sent us 5000 SATs through fountain and he says this is an oddly satisfying way of parting with money. You may have stumbled onto something. Yeah. See this is I saw that one come in. Like yeah, that's beautiful. Because that's what it is. It feels good man. It really feels good to be listening to something and just sending little bits of money. Like I value this. I agree. Feels good on both ends. Let's

get this fan said last week on the show. If from bus Brad he's like, you know, I never realized I get a dopamine hit by sending money. Yeah, exactly. It's podcasting. 2.0 It's better than

a meditation app. Nomad Joseph and his 1002 SAS through pod friend and he says happy puppy whooshed cauldron says it's cool name Cole Johnson is 18,001 Set oh I know we he she has donated plenty of times before I had to boost again after hearing you read my booster grant from Korean the keeper for anyone vanilla kinky or LGBT. Interested in relationship and intimacy coaching visit cauldrons crypt.com/coaching.

This is this is the first Native advertiser on podcasting. 2.0 who has made making the rounds and is is sending you know like nice size

boosts to have their booster Graham read. Yep that's how you do it let's see let's go to flightless birds send us 200 sets and he says you I left it on again yesterday during no agenda can hear it on the across the room my headphone doesn't quite the cord doesn't quite reach to get to it to the volume and so I heard ago pew and and what happens is on the live stream these fuckers are sitting there and in the troll room like oh, he's got the booty Graham you got the helipad on let's let's boost

like 50 SATs pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew like very funny. Very, very funny. Like see anonymous through breeze, send us 12345 So 12,354 45 sets and they say Brees warned me that they may shut down my node due to lack of activity. This is a forced boost force boost. This is very Star Wars Force boost test stim our steamer steamer 42. Send us 4242 sets through fountain and he says hey guys, please. Hey guys, please tell us please tell Jason that podcasting with legacy apps is

like making movies for VHS. VHS when Netflix is available. Is Jason. Is he talking about Jason Calacanis. That's the only that's the only he's on podcasting tours is at his podcast. Yeah. 2.0 compatible. I never hear him talk about it. Maybe he's talking about Jason from podcast guru but I don't remember what he would have said no, I don't either. I got I've got a fix for this since Dave, you really picked up this value for value very quickly.

It's not rocket science. It's it was a quick way at 3333 says

from signs of new growth through the fountain app. He says appreciate all your nonstop hard work to make this new system a reality and I will also add I'm this is me editorializing, the nonstop hard work of also guys like Alex and Brian cast of 1000s and Spurlock and Steven crater, Steven Bell and everybody that does work on this project and the hosting companies Yes, yes and the hosting companies and the app and the podcasters everybody yes want to make that clear

appreciate all your hard work to make this new system a reality been having lots of fun producing songs publishing them receiving histograms and interacting with all supportive people at podcast index dot social I'm trying to figure out how to contribute to a more music focused podcasting 2.0 experience able Kirby answer Spencer seem to be leading the way with their various projects. Great. And I'll I'll I'll do my my rant as usual. All it takes is one developer to create a

different front end just for music. That's all it takes. That's all it takes. Everything else works. That's right. Just Hey, man, you want to be a musician you. Alright, another t shirt. I sent us your took the words out of my mouth. Now I talked to I want to mention this to talk to the no agenda shop guy. Turns out it's one guy and his wife, which

is just she slays me at the amount of work he does. Wow. And so he's going to take care of the rest of our T shirts, which you've heard he's actually designing a new short new shirt for us. For our 10 donors who we still owe shirts, apologies for that.

But he also wants to do a whole podcasting 2.0 section with a you know, something podcasting 2.0 podcasts index related, so to do merch and then he'll he'll give a portion of the proceeds to the podcasting 2.0 project the index that's really need to hit him up. He has to he has to take lightning and have a BTC pay server on the front of that. It really it's time. I'll talk to him about I mean, I thought he had his own company. He literally has no inventory. He's just figured out how to do

it cost effectively. His wife helps him pack stuff up. It's an I for years thought this was a company. He has a full time job. He does something completely unrelated. I have to have two shirts that he's produced so far. They're good shirts, yes, great shirts, good quality, and he T shirts. I think what his ultimate. He wanted to learn how to do an apparel line moving

forward. And so this was kind of his, his training ground. It just became a thing and he's just like, No, I mean, he doesn't live off of it. But he certainly certainly makes a lot of people happy Satoshis dot stream, send us 10,000 sets Nice. Benjamin is a nice guy and podcast font is cool. Thanks again for the logo. Oh yeah. Very nice. Thanks. So she's downstream. See 30,000 SATs from Peter through the fountain app. And he says podcasting 2.0 uncensor ability is directly responsible

for changing the trajectory of humanity for all eternity. So happy to be part of the part of history boost boost boost. Nice. Thank you for those 30,000 says Peter, appreciate that. And the delimiter here it is ladies and gentlemen comics through blogger with his weekly donation 10,033 SAS through pod friend, he says greetings to podcast index.org. Team. Thank you for your service to podcasting and you're invited to listen to our podcast

entitled AI cooking. Read by Englishman Gregory William Forsythe Forman can be found in web browsers by typing AI cooking or via new podcast apps calm yo, yo. He's popping us FOD one came in from Sir Spencer. Did you see that about an hour ago? No, that was probably after I already dumped the list. Yeah, I just read this one since 33,333 SATs from Sir Spencer. Yeah. Hold on a second was Yeah. Hope this reaches you in time well, due to the real time

nature of Heli pad. Yes. Looking forward to your visit with us Sunday on bowls with bugs live on the no agenda stream after no agenda wraps up set for you, Dave. It is on Sunday. Yep, we'll be demonstrating our new boost IRC bot featuring custom lists featuring custom numerology emojis. Oh, man, I love this. That's that's that's fucking cool, man. Yeah, I can't wait. I'm happy what and be distracted by the troll run the entire time. Fantastic. Love it. We get monthly donors. Yes. We get some

monthly donors. Here we got Jeremy Kevin all $10 Chris Callen. $5 There's a guy I don't know if y'all know him. His name is Alice gates heard of him. He gave us $25 Thank you, Alex. He's popping. Jeffrey Rutherford. $5 naman Kessel Jack, give us $15 Paul Saltzman $22.22 Derek Fisker. $21 David Norman $25.

Jeremy Gertz $5 Timothy Hudgins $25. My buddy David would find $3 and this is Dutch I'm going to try to do it I'm going to try to do Dutch accent which will close post vessel vessel throat TR o St. proced Yeah, O P vessel proced p r o st P as in Papa, no t to t trust. Trust So trust which means to trust is to comfort Oh, this beautiful comforting remember that the Dutch when Napoleon invaded they all changed their names and they got drunk the night before and said hey, I'll just call my head

myself. Shit mountain. Okay. To beat you day to day there are people whose last name is shit mountain. I'm telling you man is crazy. Oh, he comforted us with $1 Well, thank you very much. typical Dutch Dutch guy. There you go. Survey of ash gave us $5 and Thomas Sullivan Jr. $5. My favorite name. And I want to say also give a shout out to Dr. Scott and David Norman for their continuous chapter work they

don't get enough recognition for that. Indeed everybody in you can bring your your value to the project with the three T's time talent, treasure, we need to treasure for sure. But just look at all the time and talent that we have here. It's it's always mind boggling. I would pay I would well, we kind of do but I would pay to be to be a part of this group. I think we do. I think I think we lose out Dave I think we boost more than than

we'll ever see. Yes, I've had to cut back I've had to make a conscious effort to cut back I knew you were on a collision course I knew you were boost you were over boosting and I and I quit I thought it was almost time for an intervention Okay, cuz I saw it I'm like Dave's boosting a little too much man. He's gonna boost my wife knew if she she knew it was time for an intervention if she actually intervened. Hey, slow down with

the boosting bra. Yeah, yeah, one, one pull request from Alice gates represents 1000s of dollars worth of development, professional development. Work is right. Oh, speaking of selling. So you can obviously you can you can support the whole project and liquidity and help everybody out by boosting us that's highly appreciated. The paper towels, the Fiat fun coupons still very necessary for

us to continue operations. We have a donate button at podcast index.org at the bottom, I hooked up the tally coin QR code for payments. And someone said, Oh yeah, no, I'll put in a pull request and I don't think it's happened yet. Just Steven crater he's he'll he'll he'll get to us. Yeah, now he re that's another person that is she redid the whole a whole lot of stuff. Right? It makes us so no. Well, Steven B redid the

ads page. But then Stephen crater came in and took care of a lot of nagging issues on the site like infinity scroll, he put that in on the feed low, nice. And did some search work also took care of the URL encoding for the search so you can find curry and the keeper and those kinds of things. Although I changed the the RSS feed to be curry a n d th e keeper. Yes, yeah, yeah. But he he did. He's done. He's

done a bunch of them. And he also is the maintainer of the hive watcher, JavaScript, cetera, et pod ping dot watcher watch. While he does that side, but he also maintains the JavaScript version of the hive watcher. Gotcha. Gotcha. I use pod ping Dot Watch all the time. On that note, quick aside, he was actually the first support live and popping the watch. So Oh, that's right. It comes in a different color, right? Yes, it comes in red. Oh, cool. So you

can use that to test until we can get it into another app? So here's a question just briefly for y'all pod pingers sometimes, and I just look at pod Pink Dot Watch. And they'll say podcast index. And it'll have a you know, slash podcast slash and then a thing. But here's one podcast index and it gives a search query to a Buzzsprout RSS feed. Wind does not found

in podcasts and Oh, so it's not found Okay, right. That means that it will let me tell you the reason why puts the search query in there because when you hit it with a search query for a URL, and the URL is not found, it gives you the option on the page to add the feed to the index. So that surfaces the add the public add functionality where you can click to add it if you wanted to pass it that feed is not exist in the index, but if you click

through it, you can add Holy shit. Yeah, add this to the index. Click here. Click here. Oh, that is also something that this Steven did this a recruiter put Oh my goodness. So I could actually I can help like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. Train train isn't popping gonna rain is already doing it train that train, train. Training. I'm training the Google it's I have to prove on cumin which I thought you were a foamer I didn't know it was? Well, no, I

had to click trains. They they were buses and trains. So I was clicking trains train train. I'm a good slays okay, I hate that. I hit that and I get a blank page after that. But it's being done automatically. Anyway, on the back end. Bye. Bye. Okay, podcast index. I thought I could find it'll be there. I thought it could help. It's a good hobby. Google self driving cars need all the help. Look, we don't want people to die out there. So

that's interesting. That's very interesting. Thanks, everybody. That's a better week. Thank you. That really makes a difference. And when you're boosting just consider what you're boosting. And we need as much as we can get the but I mean, even curry and the keeper and Mo facts, man. Holy crap. People are really starting to move money through the booster grams. It's picking up. Yeah, it's picking up really? Is it really the same? It's great.

All right. Anything else? What do we get? Oh, my goodness, this board meeting is out of control. Anybody on PayPal right now? Yes, we are anybody else? For the for the closing. Closing questions, closing arguments. I've won. Thank you. Thank you for everything. Oh, Brian, thank you. That's my contribution. Really, really, honestly, from the bottom of my heart, everything, everything that you've done, it just given me a huge amount of joy and, and purpose.

Wow, that's very nice thing that's very nice of you to say, Hey, Alex, this is my purpose. So that's all I got. So one more thing I'm trying to work on was popping in the medium tag is a and maybe a new knit namespace feature. is a way to do playlists for anything. So podcasts or music or whatever. Just something to think about that for discussion soon. I think I think we could do it without, you know, any copyright issues. And that could be a whole new, whole new use case. So just how

do you do that? You do that with what? Think about adding a new namespace proposal? Item. So you can have a feed that's not that doesn't have any items that would be that would be a playlist RSS. Yep. Yep. Nice. Oh, ooh. And then can we do inclusion of other playlists? Maybe think about right. I was like, could be, that's a big part about Spotify, right? Is curated playlists. So now, can we finally can we can we find like, Why did you laugh at that, Brian?

Because I love the idea every time we come up with a feature, but that is like a core product of web 2.00. Distribute it for free. And they're multi billion dollar history. You can't do anything to stop it. That's funny. Okay. Is this a way Alex to finally bring OPML back into our lives? Because I I really feel like it's slipping through my fingers. I do love the format so much. I don't think so. Maybe? I don't know much about it. But I feel

like it's just a regular trade. Right. I mean, I just I still yearn for import export, have OPML subscription lists, and very few support it. It's just too bad. I think. I think that I may be the only human in the history of the world that has written a namespace for OPML. That may be true. We don't need to think about it. Dave is definitely about it. still proud of it. I'm still proud of it. All right, everybody. Good meeting guys. Very good. And I can distill some pizza. Let's

go ahead and have that on your way out. Take a little take a little slice. Thank y'all for board meeting us pod Ting. We'll see you next week everybody bye bye. Listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcasts index.org. For more information