Episode 69: All Aboard!

podcasting 2.0 for January 14 2020, to Episode 69 on the board you know what to do and we're gonna talk about Hello, everybody. Welcome to a bigger board meeting of podcasting. 2.0. Since we missed one last week, apologies for that. Everything going on and podcast index.org the podcast namespace

and of course, the action over at podcast index dot social. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who decides just how we do it live my friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. James Jones being off last week and listen, the show, like totally screwed me up. I had no idea what day it was. Well, to be honest, it was very, very hard for me to I mean, I talked to you about I didn't just make any decision to cancel

the board meeting. I'm like, I got to talk to Dave about this. Yeah. And when a women executive decision about that from the the podcasting 2.0 broadcast committee, yes. Broadcast committee. Yes. The Executive Decision was made in a smoky back room as these things usually do. And yeah, cuz Joe had reached out to me a week before he said, Hey, man, we got we got to do a podcast together so much crazy world. We gotta

talk about stuff. I'm like, Yeah, anytime, man. And then he pinged me on on Wednesday, he says, Hey, Becky, come in tomorrow said no, I do the show the show live. And they said, Okay, how about Friday? So I said, Well, that's podcasting, too. When I got to talk to Dave, man, I said, I'll get back to you tonight. And we talked. And I said, tell Joe, he can wait. You did and I had to and I had to beg and say, Listen, man, I can make I can make it worthwhile for us. I couldn't make it worth

our while. I really can get you is it was a good appearance. Well, I'd like to tell you, I'd like to share with everybody what came out of it. In in some general terms, was scammed the open letter to Spotify panned about 270 scientists, I didn't see your name. So that's not what I meant. Something else something else came out of it, which I'm going to discuss in general terms because nothing is in stone, but I think it's important. Everyone knows at least what's going on. You agree?

I agree. Okay. So apparently, after I was talking Bitcoin with Joe, which is always so fun on Twitter, yeah, you get all these people. Hey, man, you know, was talking about you put each down, man. You're boiling the sea. Exactly. And what and my standard answer is, Hey, man, we're an open protocol where all the eath developers, where are

they? So there you go. Apparently, Sunday night, there was a 10 fold increase in signups to companies that onboard people onto Bitcoin, where you can buy and sell Bitcoin. And this was, from what I understand it was noticeable across the industry. And one of these big companies reached out to me and said, Can we talk? And clearly CNN must have mentioned Bitcoin? Yeah.

No, I think the industry also collectively went Oh, yeah, it's, they all know if that happens on a Sunday, which is supposed to be one of their slower days, then either someone was talking about one of the companies or about Bitcoin in general, some big show, and then they all agreed that had to be Rogan. So one of them reached out to me and had a very

interesting proposal. And the short of it is, they would like to onboard any podcasting 2.0 value for value listeners, they will take the listeners fee out and send it directly into the wallets. So even an even before your, if it's a new person, their KYC is all taken care of. And they've done the checking on who's who. But here's the kicker. They actually want to

and, you know, it came out right away. This is something they do for new customers anyway, but they would like to put 10,000 SATs or so into every single new wallet of every customer they onboard. That's beautiful. It's to me is like holy crap. Now people are incentivized to talk about it. Because if I got 1000 people listening to my show, I'm going to try and send 1000 people to send me $5.

That's the whole sign up. Like what he called reciprocity did like you see him all doing it, where it's like strike and Cash App, you sign up. Tell your buddy to come? Yep, sign up, and then I'll give you you'll get five bucks and he'll get five bucks. Yeah, yeah. But they're talking about doing the deep integration. So you could also do it directly from the podcast apps through some API wizardry and I think we're already having a meeting next week.

Yeah, last I saw it was Monday, I think, yeah, we're supposed to have a talk with that. That's so nice, because that's what we've been wanting to happen is somebody else, too. Because the KYC stuff is just so hard. You can't you got to be a bank, or something to really Yeah. And you have to do that. Yeah. Cuz you have to have the information stored properly. And you have to have processes and procedures and all this stuff. And I'm pretty sure that they'd

be more than willing. Because you know, what's nice about this is also if we can do it with podcasters. When we get our, our wallets all running the podcast wallet, it's a great way for podcasters to take their their earnings in Bitcoin and shuttle it right out into their bank account into Fiat. Beautiful because it works both ways. So perfect. Yeah, that that really is the missing piece that the onboard off board has been the missing pieces. Day one.

It's the hardest part. It's the hardest part two, and it's a reputable companies, a company that people have heard of. And what we'll see, I'm very I'm very jacked about that. It's great timing too, because lightning just continues to become more just industry implementations are emerging like Asha Kashia. Yeah, that's fantastic. And it puts it just puts it into the monster is becoming there was always fear that it would just become like, let me let me try to figure out

what I'm trying to say here. As, as you go through and try to promote this, this thing that can solve this problem we're trying to solve yet sort of plant your flag on something. And we planted the flag on lightning, but then there's always the fear that lightning is not going to pan out right in the industrial move to in a different direction. But now, I mean, it doesn't take very many dominoes to fall before. It just

becomes like a snowball rolling down the hill. And as you know, like that's what's happening. As you know, I Adam curry. I picked a hit. You did. That's, that's my one true talent. I have skills. But that's my talent. I can pick the Higgs. That's right. Everybody picking the hit. And since the dawn of podcasting. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's perfect timing. It is in more ways than one, you know, Gateway Pundit, which is a pretty big blog. news site really is not even a blog. They

got banned from PayPal. Last week. Yeah. I heard that that kind of shook people up. But it is, yeah, that kind of shook people up. And I was thinking, I had a nice chat with this kid in New York. And I say, kid 31 I get this a kid. And he has a little network of eight podcasts and the podcasters are all rabbis. But they're but they're, you know, they're not. They're not like, you know, spouting off some Hebrew jargon. You know, they're, they're, it's more like, like a pastor kind of

preacher, you know, real life stories. And it's some crazy to show titles like dead Jews and stuff. It's. So it's very, it's supposedly very funny, a lot of the stuff they're doing. And he called me up, Roy actually hooked me up with him. And he said, I think it's soul shopped, I think is the is the soul shopped with a T. And, and he said, I just talked to him. And

so we're talking about value for value. And I was like, and all of a sudden, it dawned on me how a small network because this, this is not a guy trying to be a podcast network, join my network, I'll get advertising for you all this now. He's, he's a creative guys. He has a media company with eight properties. That's the way I view him. And I said, Well, if you do value for value, here's the cool thing with the splits, you can take a network fee. I never really thought about it that way. But

it makes so much sense. And so everybody gets there. And you can cut your individual deals with the with your talent, and your and your creators. And then you just stick all that information into your value block. And there's always a network fee. Maybe the network takes 40% or 30%. I don't know. Because he has investors. And I say, you know, the one thing I've seen pan out before is when you show investors, you hold up your phone, you show a rolling a scrolling by tally of SATs

coming in for people listening to your shows. Even though it's 50 SATs 100 SATs may be a boost here there. It's very powerful, because investment investors are always looking for put a penny and get $1 out now what we're showing them is put $1 and get a penny out at the moment. But the mechanism but they see the

mechanism working in this way. So you are actually making money you just need to scale and and the thing and the great thing about this is the scaling is not in the amount of the number the size of the audience is how you talk to the audience and what your ask is. And a reminder, if you treat value for value as tips, you're going to get tips. Okay? So if you say, hey, tip

us, you're going to get tips. If you say this is valuable, is it valuable to you send us what value you think it is, you'll see a very different result. Can I talk about a psychological component of this real quick? It's all psychology, please. And you are psychology major? No, no, not philosophy. Same thing. It's the same general area. It starts with a PS or something. I always wanted to be a psycho history major that we know that but that's science fiction. That's not real. That's not

real. But so the psychology of this is, and I was listening to no agenda the other day. And I hear you. Yes. I hear cutting through the noise gate. Every now and then. Okay. And it reminds me of another podcast that I've listened to for years security now. Yes, yes. Security now. During that show, Steve Gibson, the host has it set up to where as it wired to where

anytime somebody buys a copy of his software. I'm paying. It has a yabba dabba doo that goes off in the end, you can hear it in the background every time somebody but it becomes a little bit of gamification where people try to try to signal it during the live stream so Oh, yeah, hear themselves in the booth. This is a fantastic idea. Everybody that does that does this everybody that does booster grams if they live stream especially but even if they don't, should have the pew pew

audible. I have it on the board. I have it on right now as we speak for that very reason. Absolutely. I was getting the beats Yeah, I was getting all kinds of messages from people about hearing it on no agenda, but also a curry curry in the keeper it was going off like crazy. And and I have it on now because you know that Chad F is gonna you know, or somewhere dreads someone's going to try and boost the grandmas I haven't I haven't piped in just

in case. It's really cool. It's that's entirely is a great psychology. Especially if you live stream. That's then then you're talking about you know that that's that's the best the dopamine hit. It comes back. And speaking of. Yes, speaking of the live item, now do you want to get the star Do you want to bring in our guests so they can participate in this? Because this is a very big topic. It bleeds into pod Yang it bleeds into creating standards. A whole whole bunch of things surrounding this.

Yeah, the guests have been out there in the lobby, just drink it still coffee for a while. I'm gonna bring them in. Yeah, we should. We'd like to welcome to the board meeting once again. Back for more. Alberto patella and Ben Richardson from Rs. s.com. Gentlemen, Hey, guys, I not only the co founders of one of the leading hosting providers for podcast necessities, all in on podcasting. 2.0. But also, along with Buzzsprout are one of

our top supporters of the entire project. So we're highly appreciative of everything you've done to support everything that's going on here. Happy to do it. Happy to do it. Yeah, I wanted I was thinking about getting you guys back on. I was talking to you, Ben offline about how you've been doing some stuff with, you know, outside the US. And also we haven't talked to you search, I've put in some tags and

search. Can you before we start talking about lost stuff? I mean, can you kind of go over what you've done in the Spanish speaking market, because I think I've been thinking a lot about this lately. And since or I was listening to Pineland yesterday, Sam Sethi talked about India. And the non you know, non English speaking podcasting doesn't get a lot of us press, especially because the markets is very big Marcus, can you kind of go over what you've done?

Yeah, absolutely. Just to start off, let me say, if we ever went to India, we would be huge, because RSS is a political party. They're kind of why not do both do both run the country and run the podcasting infrastructure. When I used to tweet stuff on our Twitter handle our at RSS, I would get like 2 million, 3 million views of what it was. It wasn't it was insane. And then they would write back so um, but we are highly focused on Latin America and especially Mexico.

We because Alberto and I both speak Spanish, we have had an affinity towards our early adopting customers down there. And it turns out that they're just great, great people and partners. So we've really tried to augment the efforts that they're making to grow the podcasting space down there. And so we've we've been intentionally positioned to have international presences. But in particular, within the Spanish speaking markets in Mexico, with our customer support is, is all

bilingual. All of our, all of our knowledge base is in three languages. Ah, and we have a booster gram. And we've been in fact, we just went down to Mexico in October.

And we're working directly there with the creators to develop their presence within that market where we've got an attorney down there helping us kind of navigate the legal system that oh my god, hey, wait a minute, you know, you know, Ben, Ben, you are so into the Spanish language, you even have emulated the Mexican radio microphone sound, it's really uncanny how good let me know I'm just messing with you know, messing with this is

really exciting. That's, that's huge. Who else is in the market who's who's competing with this, that'd be Isaac's right. And they are, they might be your competitor. So they're based there. They're out of Spain. And they do have a tremendously large catalogue of Spanish language podcasts. But I don't see a whole lot of movement from them in Latin America. And I know, they just took a bunch of VC funding, but we haven't seen it

deployed in in any way. A cast is down there. They've got an eight person office, but we haven't really seen new traction with them. And then Spotify is down there. And they haven't, that I've seen done too much either. And then there's another one that we've worked with that I can't say the name that has tried to get down there and they just can't they can't make it work their internationalization approaches. Is COVID really kind of messed them up.

Is the Spanish speaking market are a lot the largest part of your customer base at this point? Because no, no, it's it's, it's very useful just starting, you know, for downloads, it's pretty large, because we have some of the bigger podcasters in Mexico in particular. And we're looking to expand that these guys are all very well connected to each other. And so we're, we're, we're actively mining those relationships, we're building our own. We're standing up a

team down there. I mean, we've got a lot going on, on down there. And we loved we our visit to Mexico was eye opening in many respects. We invested in a podcasting studio down there. I mean, we've got just a lot going on. Yesterday at high rollers, man, big ballers know like to get on this pillowtop Yes, exactly. Yes, it was on my mind. Thank you, blueberry for your 2112 your rush boost. And nice. Yes. Go ahead. Yeah, I was saying that. It's true that we do have a unique

value proposition there compared to competitors. And the proposition is simple. Ben and I, so the founders, they we go there on the field, and we meet creators. And it was a highlight, I would say of last year for us to after years

building a product meeting the people that use it. We were on our rooftop terrace in the neighborhood, which is comparable to Soho, right of Mexico City, meeting creators, we podcaster pitching literally their podcast, there was this person that is the best expert in Mexico about Dracula, to translate. And he met their relatives. He was pitching the podcast because now we have a podcast studio so we can produce

forecasts, and we can promote them. And it was super exciting, especially from summer lag like me over the past two years as building tech companies. Right? Do we, you know, they're estimated a lot to be lost. And we think that, that we're very excited for what has yet to come. Do you think that's what it was was mostly like how you're able to get better traction there, maybe versus others that you're

focusing on the podcaster. First, instead of the tech side of things or the business side of things, you're just going sort of straight to the talent if it were? Well, I mean, I can speak to what how this strategy actually developed there is we because I grew up on the border with Mexico. So I mean, I was highly tuned in to who was joining our platform early on. He saw family in Mexico too. Yes. And part of my great grandfather, yeah.

Jack, Jack Ben here, just because Ben, when we speak in English, he speaks Italian he speaks Spanish, but when he speaks Spanish, you know maybe in a meeting with a video call it you know, it's Well, but when I came to Mexico the first night, we were having dinner, and he spoke Mexican with a Mexican accent. I said, how, how come and he just switched the, you know, the the brain chip in the brain hurt him like it was like Mexican

Unbeliev. Anyway, sorry, sorry, man, it was it was because I spent two hours on a plane hearing only Spanish. That's what it takes to kind of gear me up. But so how the strategy developed there, oh, by the way, my great grandfather was in front of a firing squad in Mexico at one point in time, and it was saved at the last second. Wow, that's bragging rights. But in Mexico, so I was highly tuned in to what was joining down there that I was watching the downloads, and we sought to

grow that market. So we did an initial partnership with that podcast. And we did not see any return on our time investment on our spot investment on our on anything. And so we thought, okay, Mexico's not going to be a traditional sort of market for us. But we love Mexico, we want to be in Mexico. So let's

explore other ways to, to grow down there. And the content side was where we really felt like, Okay, this is the right strategy for us, our company, and the people that we are establishing relationships with so nine how it went there? Nice. Okay, I wonder how value for value would work in Mexico? Yeah. Is there a Bitcoin or Bitcoin culture there?

So we have talked about it fairly frequently with some of our more kind of bleeding edge sort of people, you know, the younger generation especially, and we haven't gotten a lot of positive feedback. We haven't gotten any negative feedback. It's just a matter of educating, educating the user down there but you know, it's it's there's there are different socio economic realities that would help you're using cryptocurrency, just like we see in Africa, for instance. Yeah,

but remittance payments. Yeah, remittance payments and things like that. I mean, it how about this watch on would they would they be interested in in offering to their users 10,000 Satoshis. To send to them? You know, I'll be honest, I was telling how Bear thought either this week or last week, I said, you know, there's got to be some cryptocurrency out there that's wanting to seed some sort of

marketplace or innovators, so as to increase adoption. And then I know that there's like guys in the eath market that throw away ether to try to make them more valuable or rippled. Has this like 800 million. Rip. Yeah. And so I thought, man, it would be awesome if one of those guys would come in and see the industry to kind of kickstart things. And it sounds like that's exactly what you guys are talking about. Yeah, I think that's super exciting. Yeah. Okay. Yay, go team.

So we talk about education process, you know, yeah, well, that's what you that's a big part of what hosting companies traditionally have done. And, and I think, the more I look at where we're at now, where we're at a year and a half into a 2.0, you can see that there's still hosting companies of significant size, who have not modernized their own thinking internally, in preparing for anything, really,

for any type of new innovation in in our future. And I think that just kind of letting it pass them by is odd to see. Yeah, you know, I count ourselves lucky that we came in at the right time. You know, there's that Innovators Dilemma, you know, the Clayton Christian thing, and we're luckily not the incumbents in this regard. And the tech stack that I'll bet those building within our company is, I mean, just cutting edge world class, our tech, technological debt, our tech

debt is super low. Because we've kind of led from that from the beginning. But whereas these incumbents, these old, or heritage players, I think James called them these heritage players just are, you know, it takes a lot of effort to not accumulate that tech debt. And so we're just starting at a better place. But yeah, it's, uh, I count ourselves lucky.

So, to bring it back to to a podcasting 2.0. Look, what do you what do you see as any of the namespace elements or any of the new features that are there any of those that seem to be taking some traction in Mexico or in the stand anywhere, anywhere? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you can. Maybe you seen in your metrics, anything? Yeah. So chapters are increasing, increasing the adopted? Still, it's not it's a very small percentage. I can give you a number. It's just 1% of our episodes that have some

kind of chapters. Some of them seem to be test seven then. And I guess that the whole problem there is that we really need more apps, maybe one of the major player supporting them that that's really worked with the local chapters, but chapter is definitely one of the most interesting. And then Ben and I have great expectations for the location tag. It's very exciting, okay. And maybe then you want to build on that? Well, I just, I just see, you know, emerging markets, they

have different profiles on the media side as well. In Mexico, for instance, has a high amount of radio involvement much higher than the US. But that's going to shift it everything's going to go as the US market is gone. And getting a location tag into the podcast that that are starting to develop down there is going to allow people to have a different expectation of their

of their podcasting platform. So if you're in northern Mexico, northern Mexico is different than southern Mexico, and Eastern is different than Western Central is different than everywhere. So localising, we see a lot of promise in going to the traditional media outlets, and saying, Come on over bring these sorts of content that bring this type of content into a podcasting type media, and let's let's target or

let's help your listeners find you. Whereas currently there it's just kind of like throw it all out there and hope that you know, your people find you this is gonna we're gonna help people find the right content that they're looking for and and have a question in your in your education of podcasters. Do you talk about how do you talk about how the podcaster can use their influence over the audience to help adopt new things and try

new things? And do you? Do you kind of press that that this is this is how new feeds like, even just with chapters? Yeah, I mean, transcript attractors is a good example. And I'll bet if I can talk to transcripts in a second, I think but chapters we have been approaching Adam, from a perspective of you guys want to start doing this now. Because the minute it's unlocked on a, on a major podcast app, you're

going to be at the very front. And so we've been kind of spring loading, spring loading on their side, the expectation that they really need to support now, in order to take advantage of the medium that's eventually going to come if date, if one of these big guys doesn't do it, we're gonna go out and we're gonna buy a podcast app, and we're gonna make it happen. But it's just a fun way. You just say that again? Yeah, man. Wait, where? Listen, there's only one way to really put

pressure on the market and it's from pushing, you can't pull. So the way you push the market towards a new standard is either through FOMO, or loss of market share. So we're gonna, we're gonna figure that out, we're gonna get it. So I like that. Mr. Ben. Didn't when he said that didn't surprise me at all just knowing you. The reason, of course, is how we think in Texas. Hey, what does that happen? Yours costs on.

T. Boone Pickens, you guys, you guys might remember that Alberta is like, he's a world class app CTO, like he has built several very like high functioning high dollar apps. And we haven't even tapped into his full like golf bag of, of skill sets yet in our company. And so we're gonna unlock everything it's just a matter of patiently and Albert has to pull the reins on me a little bit on this stuff.

There's your FOMO right there you guys got this you sitting on bombs man, every other every other competitor should be worried now. We're gonna we're gonna move to Mexico and taking care of the apps. Yeah, no, I'm good. With that. Sass from Mexico is the same SATs it's all good to go you want to talk about transcripts? multiling. Just taken from from the question also. They have education. So it's, it's it's it's a mix between the adoption

of chapters transcript and and podcast index. Lupino tags, obviously, is a mix is directly correlated to the major apps or apps prominent podcast apps that support them. For example, a pod verse, we met Mitch, last year in Nashville, and pod eight, podcasting 2.0 For example, I listened both cussing to blow on pod verse because I love chapter really loved them. And I you know, so it's very, it's very important on the one hand, and

on the other hand, as you said, Adam is education. Now there is a point regarding our user base, which is that in the first couple of years of our company, due to the features we had at the time, you know, we built it from scratch. So we we We're taking mostly the long tail of podcasters. So people actually started from scratch. But more and more features more and more with time passing, we added more and more features now, right? So now we are in a position where we can we are creating content

in our blog, even in our user interface, right? We we put a hyperlink to podcasting index to the apps that support some of the tags. So that's the whole point like education goes in parallel with the number of features and the the target for which you can either your projects or your product. So so we are in this stage right now where we are starting to educate on the podcasting. TurboTax. Wow, okay. You just blew me away. I have nothing to say.

You're doing everything exactly the way I would do it. That's, that's impressive, man. Very, very cool. I wish that we had I wish we had a radio like, like this, like James, who knows the current radio landscape, maybe in a world, like a global basis? Because I wonder how much in simple in a place like Mexico, I wonder how much radio consumption there is versus podcast. consols got to be off the hook. It's like, it was like 99.9% radio?

Yeah, yeah. But I mean, that's what so our entry to these large pot, our radio conglomerates that are going very well for us is these, these are still kind of, let's see generational type companies, where they're not necessarily looking down the road more than two or three years. And so we're coming in, we're saying, Guys, this isn't important to you now. But it will be in three or four years when this is the hottest thing since radio. So let's get you involved now. And let's let's

start working together now. And I was I was thinking about this in the context of the live tag when I was hearing it, you know, I was reading some discussion about it. And I thought, Wow, this actually kind of, you know, we there's two companies, I guess, now have been purchased by one by Spotify, one by a big radio, holding company, they mainly for how they handle the RSS feeds for radio shows within feeds. And I was thinking that, you know, the LIVE TAG is a real

differentiator for radio station feeds. Where you can alert someone is okay, this show is live, or here's the quote unquote, podcast the replay. I don't know what do y'all think? So since we've been building the LIVE TAG, for the last few months, the use case in my mind has been almost exactly this. I mean, we I think we get into the trap of thinking about okay, we're going to get with with a LIVE TAG, we're going to get YouTubers who are going to

start, you know, live broadcast or whatever. But if I may, if I may, I'm sorry to interrupt the genesis of the live tag and I this is what I was trying to figure out. How did we get from where we were, all of a sudden to this big discussion about what it's supposed to be? And then when someone is out there saying, you know, we're it looks like we're it was Mitch, actually, we're telling podcasters how they

should do it. I'm like, Okay, we've clearly gone off the rails, in my mind that genesis of the live tag was in combination with booster grams, similar to a super chat on YouTube. That's how I recall it coming to life. Was there something before that? Well, the LIVE TAG sort of existed before that, before that discussion. And it really, it really goes back to to Alice gates and in a tube. Right. He wanted to he wanted to enable that feature on no agenda two, but do it in an open standards

way. Right. Live Streaming? Yeah, live streaming, because there's no equivalent to it. There's no equivalent to something like that. That does it on the distributed distribution side. So can I just cut straight to my conclusion, then I'll shut up for the rest of the show. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I just want

to make sure we realize that we're thinking upside down. This is it's not like, it's like like, you know, the result of all discussion I'm seeing is now your podcast that becomes a notification for your YouTube app or something like that. You're upside down people who are streaming to Facebook and YouTube or have the option of also firing up an additional stream to na tube. That's how they do it. I'm very I talked to moe about this all the time. He's very big into the streaming

stuff. And it's multiple streams they do it either from OBS or they do it from stream yard. I think it is. And this is so instead of trying to give people another place where they can be notified about something they're doing on YouTube. Give them the option, an additional place to stream to. That's how it should be viewed in my mind. Does that make sense? Yeah, no, it makes. Yeah, that's Well, that's the way I've been.

Yes. All right. But then when Spotify, this is why I brought up sort of to ask Ben and Alberto's about the radio part was that, yes, that that is an option for existing sort of digital streamers. But then you also have this Spotify buying Bushka in this entrance into for like the podcasting platforms are trying to clearly get a foot in the door of radio. And so it's not a big leap to think that an app like pod verse can become a live streaming. As for for these radio stations as

well, yes. Like I can, I can envision like a sort of a radio station out of Mexico City, just having a podcast feed, and it may have their old shows in it. But at the top of the feed, there's their current live stream going. And for that, I mean, maybe you get alerted when the morning show starts or something like that. Yeah. Or special. Yeah, what do you guys think about that? I think that's yes,

let me jump in here. We, we do have some experience here. And then I'll I'll turn it over to Alberto because I think he's probably more versed in this, but we got approached by an online radio company down there and looked at it, and ultimately decided not to invest or not to kind of further discussions. The reason we did that is, there was not a lot of traction that they

were able to accomplish, it was very niche and not growing. So from a business case, that particular that particular use was not necessarily where I would envision a live a live streaming tag going on the radio side. Just speaking from my side, and I hope I don't really, you know, get you guys angry at me. But one of the benefits to podcasting for I would say 80% of the people that use podcasting is that it's

asynchronous. And the minute you introduce synchronicity to podcasting, you almost out of necessity, eliminate a lot of your listeners, now, the interaction that you're able to get out of Live, live streaming, would probably supersede that. And then you can create a recording, etc, etc, and maybe get, you know, to some other model that makes sense for the

listener. But I think it's going to be more of a very specific use case, rather than the Washko model, which is take this content, which is delivered in real time, and then reconfigure it, you know, massage it a little bit so that it's more palatable to somebody listening asynchronously. And I think

that's the larger market. So for Mexico, in particular, a live streaming, probably not going to be a function, that's going to get you a lot of users or usability, as opposed to listening to the morning show at night, which is where I think a lot of a lot of that direction is going there's, there's a third category, which I belong to,

which I've been doing for maybe 11 or 12 years. And that's where we do the show on a live stream, and have a feedback mechanism, in this case, a chat, but I'm equally as happy with booster Graham's where that interaction has become a part of the show. And what we're seeing is, there's just a segment of the audience that shows up is just there. I mean, this has been

done with twit has done this from day one. This is a very, a very common category, which I think is the one that to me, personally, is the most interesting, and does make sense. Because even the people who listen to the live stream, they often listen to the podcast again. Now, that's just from a separate category of podcasters perspective. And we haven't and we've grown a pretty big audience doing that from the

radio broadcaster side. If I think that, again, I just looked at it upside down a unique opportunity to take someone from hey, here's the the morning show, and you can listen to it whenever you want to, you know, if you just want to listen to the station, right now, at this moment, use the same app. Here's, you know, click just click here and you're good to go. Because eventually, all radio has to get rid of their infrastructure. So this is a transition to bringing radio

into into app. No, it's not Exactly podcasting. And then I think ultimately, the expense of doing radio, you know, on a linear 24 hour timescale is too overbearing, and they will all become podcasts. So it to me, it's a transition or transitionary thing into live shows that benefit from having a quote unquote studio audience who's just kind of always there, it's a minority of the people, it does not suck away from the podcast at all. In fact, we've only grown over time.

That seems like you can meet in the middle, because you have, yes, sort of two, you have two paradigms. Here you have the radio paradigm, which is broadcast live only, essentially. And then you have the podcast paradigm, which is all time shifted to asynchronous to use Ben's work, you know, you have these two things in the middle. And then, but then you have this middle ground where you have an a podcast, like no agenda, or accidental tech or coder, radio, Linux unplugged,

just many examples is more than go down the list as a lot. We're live streaming and audio stream. So those are podcasters, making, taking the step into towards the middle. Yes, they got one figure out once they get the right foot in podcasting, their left foot and live broadcasting. And then and, and they have both. But then radio, as has been doing the radio has been doing that for a while, like time shifting their shows as podcasts, but they don't maintain the live in

app experience. But where's Where's a podcaster? That goes live. They have their time shifted podcast show up in the feed later. But they they still have an in app live experience. Whereas radio, their live is only on a broadcast medium. And their podcast shows. So there's this disconnect there. Whereas like, I'll just explain, like the vision I have is in app, let's just say in any podcast app, you, you go and you say I

want to listen to this radio show. And you go you go to the radio show it let's just say it's me, see 100 Blah, blah, blah, you go to that podcast. And you see all of the previous shows just like a regular podcast that have finished for the day. And then at the top though, you have live and you if you want to listen live, you hit live and Listen Live. If you don't you just consume it as a normal podcasts.

But okay, you've just helped me form the actual definition in the context of how I've always used it, and many people use it successfully, and have been doing this for four decades, almost. But certainly more than 10 years. Live is for the live studio audience. It's not a replacement. It is where people who were a part of the creation of the show. That's that's what

the live thing is for. Yeah, I've never seen I've never, I do not see any world where people transition from, you know, you add a live stream to your podcast and people stop downloading. That's not how it happens, those people become part of the show. And whether you like it or not, because they'll be emailing you during the show, there'll be text messaging you, they'll be sending you shit on Telegram, it doesn't matter if you have a chat room or not, they're going

to find ways to send messages back to you. That's my experience. And that's that's the part that that the whole discussion is missed is what exactly are we doing here? And it's, it's satisfying, I believe. And I think Dave, we're on the same page, a new cat because I came from radio,

remember. So this is how what I know to do now now we have this whole slew of very professional talent, who are having to morph their entire skill set into a nonlinear system, which is very different because you're not rushed to hit the top of the hour or the commercial break or whatever it is. And now you have infinite ways to interact with the audience and you have the

time to do it. And this, to me is is a has a very big future for the talent that's out there that's looking to differentiate themselves with a live studio audience. Yeah, it's like the wait, wait, don't tell me. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. Very good example. Yeah. Thinking Albertus, you're you're now an honorary member of the live sub committee. Yes. where decisions are made? Yes. Yeah. I was. I was listening and I agree with the, you know, with

the fact that the format's are very different. So the way you, you, you craft the content that doesn't necessarily coincide. That's great. For me, that's one level of the conversation. But if I step back, and I take it from a different standpoint, just in terms of products, and adoption, what blew my mind when I saw live item was just one thing. I thought, if this is adopted, this is the only tag that if adopted, then is going to be tightly intertwining radio streams, live streams. podcasts.

So podcast apps are going to support the radio streams. And so radio streaming apps are going to most likely. So the step to support podcast is going to be shorter possible. So and this would contribute to the adoption of metadata from Point A to Point Oh, so that's how I saw it from the product perspective. On the one hand, there is the former the medium,

that's great, absolutely. But if America Gnostic to that, and is think about adaptability, I think this is a great opportunity to really intertwine and pair radio streams with podcasting and basically reach a larger audience. Right, and do that at the protocol level. Correct. And not anything else? Because that I think that ultimately, is the discussion on GitHub, and the discussion is, well, we should also just point to the life page where someone is streaming on

YouTube. Like, that makes no sense to me. That's, that's yeah, I want to talk about that. So. So here was the idea, in part part of what is the problem here is that the live item was, was up there for months. And nobody commented on it until it got into it got finalized. And now everybody has a flurry of comments, which is, which is, you know, annoying. But, but, so mean. So, here's, here's the way I'm gonna I'm gonna, I'm gonna start first principles here and then build up. Some live item is

semantically meant to be equivalent. With an item. Period. That's, that's what it is designed to be. It is it is the live equivalent of an item. So that may and it has to be met, it has to be valid, a valid datatype. For an item it needs to do it needs to funk function for live streams, the same way that an item functions for episode got it first podcast episodes got it. And one of the basics. And so therefore, default, as is, it needs to be self contained. That means it

needs to deliver the content. The content needs to be delivered to the app, not the app just pointing to some other place, right to launch another app. Yeah, this is an ingest just like you're ingesting an mp3 with show notes with other other data. Okay. Right. We're building we're building a podcast in 2.0. open source communities building is open, decentralized systems built on RSS, we're not we're not a trade group or trade

association for podcasters. We're not trying to make we're not the IAB we're not trying to make somehow make their, you know, products do specific things. We're, we're trying to build open systems that allow this stuff to function in a specific way. That sounds very cultish to me. Dave Jones does well. So the light as written a live item, it does it, it does the job it was designed to do, which is what I just laid out.

It delivers content in the app for the app was added to render any way the app chooses. Yes. And so this is it, you can look at a different differentiator. You can look at it very, very similarly to, to the social to comments and social tag. The social tag by design is meant to render comments and discussions in the app. That's what we're, that's what we're building it for. We're building it as a con as a content delivery mechanism to the app.

We're so far in pod friend works, at least that the the reception side, there's no interaction, but you can see and there's a lot of interaction because I do it. I know agenda social. So it's cool. That's, that's where we're at. That's the

bottom line for it at the moment. Now there's this discussion that has emerged that says, okay, that means and I'm going to try to, you know, express the pushback in a in a generous way that I think is is what people are trying to say, which is that means that some podcaster has to go build a nice cast server or do some other infrastructure change and that's that's a lot of work and we want to meet them where they're at on YouTube or any of these other things. Okay, that that is a

valid thing and I'm totally understand it. That's not that is a different thing to ask for. And so that what is being asked for there is a notification system. Yeah, is we're asking it to do a new we're asking live item to do a new job. We're asking it to deliver links to content in other apps. and services. Now that that needs a different tag that so the way that I live item exists right now as it exists as a notification to the app that there's live content available.

And inside the live item, you have either enclosure or alternate enclosure, which notifies the app that here's where you can find the content to begin to, to play in the app. If we want the live item, and I'm, again, I'll say I'm fine with this, if we want the live item to also be able to deliver links to content on other apps and websites, we need a new tag, something like external or content link or external link,

some other tag that can also be put into the live item. That is just a link a semantically appropriate link to the content on the other app or platform. That's the proper way to do this. We did the equivalent of a funding tag, basically just a link to, to whatever that would be Yeah, you could make the same argument with social and with with with comments tag, you can say, okay, by design, this is meant to deliver activity, pub, or other or matrix or some other

protocol, wire level content to the app. But if we have this thing called, you know, whatever it might be content link, or this other tag, we can also put that into the social tag, and say, Okay, here's a link to my twitter thread. And then the app, if it wants to choose is to honor this, it could launch Twitter. But we don't want to build the social tag, or the live item tag around the notion that this is going to be delivering links to other content, because that's not what

it is designed to do. It can be made to do that. But if we're going to make it do that, we need to do it the right way. But giving it the correct semantically appropriate tag to go into it. One question, and then we'll see if our guests are still alive. That was very clear. Appreciate it. So how does this differ from say, the media tag, if I was going to put a PDF in my as my enclosure is that that doesn't have any description and doesn't

say anything about how it should be rendered. It's just a piece of media, it has the same metadata in the item. And then it's up to the app where there knows how to render that or not that particular media file, how is that different from the live tags that purely the notification or the timestamp that's in there? Well, lot, the notion of something being live needs other needs other attributes that that okay, I got that one got the I got it live start time, stat. Yeah. And so the the idea here

is that we can make this work. But we don't, we really, really don't want to start shoving this stuff into something like the link tag. It's just not it's not what it's meant for. We want it we want to do this right. And, and in order to do it that way. There's a couple that we need to do it technically, right, which which is going to require a new tag. or, excuse me, excuse me.

And we also have to be cognizant of the fact that if we're looking at app adoption, and I want to get your opinion on this, Elberta, if we're looking for app adoption here on all these tags, clearly we are that's the whole point. If I tell an app like it, well, let me let me flesh this a little

bit further. If we want adoption from all apps, we don't want podcasting 2.0 tags to just be adopted by pod verse and, and pod friend and cast ematic and pure Val caster, we don't want that we want these tags to be adopted by Spotify, Apple, Amazon music, we want these all to be adopted across the entire podcast industry. Now imagine that your Did you are delivering links into a live in live item in the podcasts or puts in there? Okay, here's my live item in its it's just simply a link

to Facebook. That is something that Apple podcasts will never, they're never going to just have a link there that launches Facebook for you out of their app. Yes, I mean, they'll put it behind a walled garden for only their own app. So in other words, if if I had that tag and I was parsing it, I would say okay, you've got to like pay extra for the Apple iTunes app to get this functionality for these podcasters Yeah, I don't see it being adopted as kind of

like a open source, at least on the big guys. I mean, I could be wrong. And it would be nice if I were but but one of the one of the use case, one of those like example scenarios was, what about Joe Rogan? What about your somebody's gonna listen to the Joe Rogan podcast, but it's over here on Spotify, streaming live or whatever. I mean, app, Apple podcast is never going to launch the Spotify app for you so that you can listen to Jim okay. Yeah, they don't link out. It's not

No, no, they'll never they'll never adopt this. And so, I don't know, there's a 10. There's a technical issue here that I think can be solved. If and I think it can be solved very quickly, by just having an external content tag. It can be put in there. But then there's also this practical idea that I see this being a real adoption, head adoption. Like just no go. May you mean, no, go? Like, what you're saying is if is if we want these bigger apps to launch, to some how long? No, we

don't know, I think it's clear. And I think that this is a great way to get the namespace adopted, because I do think radio stations will say, Oh, wait, we can get our streaming those apps. And let's, let's make sure we add to the namespace with that at least the LIVE TAG to to our feeds, I would never expect I would never, I would never expect an app to launch another app so that you can hear or see your content. I wouldn't expect that, you know, you're gonna

know they've here I agree with you regarding semantics. But I'm not so concerned, because I think that this is a matter of having all hosting companies or the companies that produce the RSS feed aligned, yeah. So that you have the link, for a link. So semantically speaking, it makes no sense in the live item tag. So that's what I'm saying. It doesn't concern me, if we all

agree on following the namespace. This cannot happen. I understand the conversation be on GitHub, but it makes a lot of sense to have to have a real live stream URL there, not a website, for example, or a YouTube page. And this is must,

must be enforced by the hosting companies. And then when there is a high adoption of a certain tag, bigger companies and or players like Spotify, they're gonna start to notice and hopefully, they're going to start to implement them, because it's big, simply because they have a higher adoption. You know, what's really cool is that we have no agenda stream. And so there's, there must be at least 15 live shows. And so now

they can, and they have, but they also have podcast. So now they can all individually use the same URL, notify, hey, we're live at this point. I mean, this is this is, it's just gonna be really groundbreaking stuff where a couple of you know, that's now you have the essence of a Podcast Network. Because they're literally connected by the same stream, it's a lot of this stuff that I think is going to be very surprising once we

get it in. And you're right. And we need that for this has always been the thing hosting companies, we have about four or five, who are really implementing tags as they go and as the demand from because everyone has slightly different users, or maybe wildly different users. And we're building this is a slow a slow process. You know, I saw it in 1.0. It just takes time.

Yeah, I did want to bring that up is that, you know, the day to day on these things and what I was reading on the mastodon, it's pretty easy to lose kind of a higher level viewpoint of what you guys accomplished. As a group. I mean, everybody on that Mastodon chat that I'm that I'm reading, everybody has produced

an amazing advancement for podcasting. And so yes, regardless of how the day to day goes on this particular tag at this particular time, kind of, we should not let that get lost into the miraculous achievement that this is yeah. Thank you. You know, I that's what I go back to. And that's why we love you know, especially when the bat signal went out. Bobby said public funding, yeah, the sad, we're happy, we're happy to, to jump in because we we, we have not lost sight of, of what

everybody has contributed to doing. I mean, you know, I tell you this apple would not be hosting any content, any podcast content had the podcast index not come about now that you check, like that's a huge, you know, multi trillion dollar company that changed their approach to this particular medium, simply because that small piece jumped in. Was that a good or bad thing? I don't care. It's like a massive

improvement, like it changed the landscape. And so I, you know, Alberto and I are, you know, we're we're in the same boat that the day to day can kind of cloud the focus or cloud the overall vision but don't don't lose sight of what what's there and what everybody's done. Yeah, and I don't you know, we we've been, me and Adam both been part of multiple open source projects in the past and the day to day flame wars come and go and everything and I have

a very thick skin. I mean, people can, you know, say what, it's also very healthy. This is, this is very good. This is the shit you can't do in a corporate environment. You can't piss people off. Yeah, it doesn't work that way. So I've always said that just looking at the productivity of the group. If you could even afford this group, because it's quite large, you would never get the productivity never get the

thinking. And in general, everyone's actually much more honest and courteous towards each other, even though we get flame wars and stuff. But it's really fantastic. And this format, I think the mastodon format has a lot to do with it. Because it's not like an email list is not what you know, shit scrolls off. Like that. Some other thing going on. Let me see what that is. And you lose interest, which is good. That's how it should be is done. It's in the timeline. You don't want to go back to it.

Yeah, I think I think in the ultimately. So I think we can, I think we can absolutely deliver what's being asked for. We just, we just need to do it in a in a well thought out way. And I don't think it will take long, I think it's a very easy thing to implement, as I do think we can do what's being asked for, I just want to make sure that we don't do it in we don't try to like shoehorn something in and I give away. Also, this is a very good group effort and practice for

comments. Because we have similar problems with with the comments tag that we have here. They although I think it's much more complicated. So getting through this as a group and all agreeing and figuring it out, I think is going to be good for us. This will really help with the next steps. Yeah, I think comments. There's been, you know, a lot of questions about comments lately, I think it is, I continue to say it is the most difficult tag we're ever going to do as a

group. Because there's so many moving parts the live compared to live item, it's way harder, because they look at look at Daniel J. Lewis, his post, he's like, here's the 15 things we need for comments. You're essentially rebuilding Twitter. What I think ties this all together, and I really want to talk to Roberto and Ben about this is a piece of technology that kind of dropped out of the bottom of podcasting 2.0. And the more I look at it, the more beauty I see in it, and how it

can really tie everybody big and small together. And that's pod ping. I mean, pod ping is so powerful that I know that I could start a consulting business and I could build a database of a large portion, at least of all active feeds, I know exactly when they're updating, I could build a podcast app just using pod ping, just using pod ping, you know, and like a supplementary search. And this, this notifier I think is so powerful. Roberto, how do you see this?

I fully agree and I'm very surprised that botting is not been adopted yet by Austin companies. Right? I believe I was speaking with Dave a few months ago, they were talking about the last update right in an RSS feed the last update and putting solves so many problems at the same times. And it can allow for example for the live stream to notify when the stream

is starting. But also you can literally like a Pub Sub hub send a ping on where when when when anything in our RSS feed so instead of scraping Yes, we have major companies scraping our feeds 10s of 1000s of times per minute right so that to solve all the problems so long story short, it should be mandatory if we could have a low and also I would do that you know what so let me just say this Apple Apple Listen to me Apple no one will know no one

has any way of knowing that if you use pod ping there's no technical way for anybody to know that you're doing it it's okay no one can narc on you that you're cheating with the open source guys. We know they not already do we don't we don't they might be do it. Do it. Everybody should be doing this a better you're so right mandatory. And it's it is a it is. It is like the first kind of web three blockchain Neve

bruster Brian of London chapeau. Ba my hat's off to you. Because what it's just a beautiful, beautiful piece of technology that can live forever. And it truly can be the backbone of podcasting. When no one owns a large company, any large company with any sort of environmental initiatives, and they're right, they should be doing this. Yes. Yeah, they should be doing this. We need to see ESG beta meeting. Yeah, we didn't ESG pitch on this, like, Hey, this is this is it? Yes.

Yeah. I think you can make a case that you can improve your ESG score by not scraping 10,000 times a minute. It's just wasted resources, you know, correct. Yes, GMA plus there is the added value in the morning, drinking a coffee while watching the PA just the sexiest thing ever. I do it to like, Boom, look at that. Look at that. Look at that. Oh, that's an interesting podcast. Yeah, on the pod thing, front alley, that's being done. Watch everybody pod ping Dot Watch. If you want to see that.

Alex and Brian are currently hard at work I'm seeing they're they're, they're merging pull requests, like, like mad. There. They are upgrading piping to the next iteration that will support reason codes. And so what does that mean? In the future, you'll be able to read now all you get is a feed URL, something has it changed? In the future? You're gonna you're gonna know what changed or why. Yes? Oh, what element changed? Yeah. You're not necessarily what element but what why did it

change? So you're just gonna, there's gonna be like, well live, you know, this, this feed just went live? Ah, oh, and what is it? What is it? What does it drag that data from just by knowing what's happening or because something is added or

whatever the input is? So if you had a, you know, if you're, if you have a live stream, and then you can send along that that reason code with it, and say, Okay, now the status, the live status has changed for people wanting to investigate what is their GitHub is our spot for the for the pod ping? There is bit odd, put it in the show notes, because it's too long to kind of read out. And there's this, there's this other, I don't know where we are timewise. But there's, you know,

something else happened? Is I deleted a whole bunch of anchor feeds. They're not deleted, but that marked them put them in the graveyard. In the graveyard? Yes, a tombstone them. And this would be interesting to ask from a hosting company perspective. So here, here's what I ended up eliminating from the index 296,000 feeds. These feeds, the criteria was, they have two episodes or less. And the total con, the total length of the enclosure, within any episode was less than three minutes

long. So if it met those criteria, if nothing if it basically if it if they had no more than three minutes of content and less than three episodes, it was removed. Was there a date on that day? I mean, did you? Oh, yes. Yes, yes. Yeah. Also a date? Yes. If it had not been updated in the if there's no new items published in a year. So so two minute to two episodes or less, less than three minutes not updated in a year? And also the last piece? glad you

mentioned that. No, iTunes ID. Yeah. So he met all those criteria? Yeah, I mean, those criteria, Dave, you basically are very aligned with the internal quality filter we used to have, which was like decision tree. And it was very similar. monistic quality filter, it means that when we submit a show, or in our community, for example, we have a community page, where we showcase our podcasts and our users and our end, we always have we at the beginning, we had a mix of

duration, number of episodes, right? And then we started to add a bit of machine learning in order to make sure that we could capture also the short episodes that actually were quality episodes, but the format was very, very, there was a big delta between the format or the average format and those formats, which are very little but the long story short, is that you did very well to remove those feeds because 99% of the times they are not quality, they actually are not sure it's most

of the times I guess their tastes. Yes, that's okay. So I'm glad to hear you say that because I was thinking about this again. I had a lot of time to think about sort of the prac, the technical, practical side of this and the philosophical side of this, because this is not really, this is not really trying to purge based on content. It's not what this is not, you're not purging on what it's about your purging on whether or not it meets a minimum level of listening

ability. Like, is, is this content? What there? There's the quote, okay, so there's the question of the technical definition of what is a podcast? Okay, well, it's a, it's an RSS feed that references an audio content or video content. But then there's the philosophical question of what a podcast is. And that question is its, it has to meet a certain it has to have a certain level of, of listener listen ability, or, or content in it, that people would recognize as something as some

sort of communication. That is, you know what I mean? Literally, I could pay for I could play for y'all dozens and dozens of things, where it's just some Doosan Hey, hey, alright. And that's it. It's the only thing. I don't want to get into these. What I'm trying to say is it doesn't it doesn't feel like I'm getting rid of these 300,000 fees did not seem like editorializing to me. It seemed like a clean like a technical cleanup exercise.

Yeah, exactly. The way I see I see the is like spam. Right? So you, yes, yes, you probably capture 99.5% of the non quality non real podcasts non real shows, then there are some false positives. But is it similar to what happened especially at the very beginning with spam filters, right, where you have to train them and you improve your, your approach? Let's say that your approach is very manual, which is perfect, because it captures most of the distribution, let's say, of

shows that don't fit those criteria. But but that's a start. So I wouldn't see it as editorial we had the same conundrum. Yes, no, do we delete them? Do we? What are we gonna do? Some of them were paying? And we had to like, Wait, basically cancel the steps. But what are we going to do? So? Yeah, it's an interesting philosophical problem, but I like, technical approach.

Yeah, I like the idea of bertos offering there, Dave is, is not first of all, if you don't qualify it as if you don't call that dead show, if you call it, you know, technical spam, or something like that, you know, to spam and you're doing a technical cleanup. And really, you know, at some point, people should be able to, you know, claim their feed go in and mark it is not spam.

Yeah, and well, there's an there's this, this notion of the Eat Sure, we want to have all of the podcast feeds in the in the world, we want that. But at the same time, there's there are practical limits. I mean, sure. We can't just, we couldn't have like, let's just say 40 million podcasts. Now you tell me what do you mean, we can't scale to that? What are you talking about? Yes, we can. Don't ever say we can, okay. Okay, we can't do that right now. Okay, this is it

today. And so, and I limited this to only anchor, because I think anchor is uniquely positioned, technically speaking, to create to be a conduit for this sort of podcast spam, because of what they are and how they function. This idea that you can just launch it from your phone, talking to your phone, and you've got a podcast. But I, I partially agree, sorry for interrupting. But I partially agree because for example, we do have the free

first episode. So all features everything, you just sign up no credit card. And when we launched that we had this, we could see and observe that kind of conduct. But what we did was building an app, basically, we have a spam engine. This is not the quality filter is an engine that is based mostly on the description on the presence of the cover, but we have some

machine learning there. We have training there, and we trained from our internal CRM, whether the Spam is correct or not any works for 98% accuracy region under the curve, which means it's a good system, we actually have very little false positives. So this could be prevented by anger if they wanted. Also, imagine the improvement in the ESG score. If we didn't have stupid machines, pinging stupid shows 10,000 times a minute, it's waste. It's It's warming the earth.

What do they call that thing that you get with a 401k? Or like a like a mutual perspective, we need to develop a perspective yes, we're the key if someone out there is an ESG litigant, because that's What it all is? Someone's a lawyer, and you need to someone needs to sue apple and Spotify over this horrible Earth warming practice. Oh, it's hard to breathe. There's so much co2 Apple. Well, I mean, I know he was, but there is there is some logical

business sense behind doing this. It's it's not throwing money away, you know? VSG the SG angle is a good one, I think, because we all want to be wise stewards, but at the same time, there's money being thrown away when they're running. Yeah, a million servers out there pulling RSS feeds and then the hosts inkind have to have a million servers answering RSS

feeds. There's I can tell you, I can tell you from what you're like the what you're describing is completely accurate Ben because most you take a guy like Marco who has spent years developing his Algor his feet checking algorithms and to where he can minimize the

server usage because every dollar counts for his setup. But then you have a company like Apple or some other company who just has so much money their answer to that is not is not optimize the algorithm their answer is throw 12 more servers at it but also look at the waste Facebook is producing with these you know 512 K downloads on I mean, these these, these are ESG score lowering maneuvers Facebook. Yeah, good. That's horrible.

So we thank some people or do we? Because we're running one hour 60 Man, these guys are too much fun listening to you talk day. Okay, so practical question. We've got like a million donation thanks to Ray do want to stick around or Yeah, we love sticking around. This is my favorite part of the show. Okay. All right. And let's dig up to as I said blueberry and Chad Ferro for boost booster gramming During the show, well done well done.

Yeah, we missed last week. So we got we've got like an extra week of things are here with the now this is gonna be interesting. Right off the bat. This is $270.64 from the from the guys at antenna pod. Whoa. Shakalaka 20 is Blaze. big baller. Yeah, it's okay. So he he asked me to have you since he's Dutch. He wants you to pronounce his name. Okay. Cohen, Glock got back. Okay. Oh, he Oh yeah. GLOTZ b ACH. Ah, this is a German isn't that doesn't sound Dutch. It's Kuhn.

Kuhn is very Dutch. Okay. Klotzbach. Okay, cool. Little what you said sounded like barf bag in Dutch. It was very funny. Khun barf bag everybody Yes. Sorry for insulting the guy that is he says the antenna pod community decided to donate 250 euros for the podcast and that is so cool. Thank you guys. Yeah. 10 apart there of default install on a lot of a lot of different systems. They Yeah, they've they've really been pushing podcasting.

2.0 and then index they've been roiled that group. Yeah. Franco Celerio from cosmetic ease, gave us $100 Whoa, he says thank you guys for revolutionising media time and time again. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Franco. Franco, such a good guy. Okay, Kevin merit he sent us this is not a monetary donation. He he bought he bought for us for you. He won the bid for the podcast index. Domain. Top Level Domain on handshake is yeah, this is very interesting. Handshake. So it's

a blockchain based Domain Name System. So once you have it, and you you still have to pay some kind of ongoing little fee into the, into the, into the chain to maintain it. It's like all other alternative DNS systems, you either are going to have to modify your DNS settings, which of course centralizes it, or there's some kind of app that you'll have to run alongside of it. And that community with the community is doing is that it's there. In essence, they are giving away shit coins, and I

don't mean to degrade what they're trying to do. But this is it's tokenized so this is like It's almost like a stealth ICO. So I've received all of the Adam curry and no agenda. Domain names. Dan it's all tied into ERC. 20 blockchain so you know somehow that's going to be value I'm not I can just see it coming down Broadway but they're they're out there spreading these names which are, in essence alt coins masked. And I'm not against it. I'm actually I've accepted the ones are about

to accept the ones that we've received. And that's the current value. And I'm sure they'll go up in value and it's like, it's kind of NF T in a way. Okay. Yes. Well, he gave he gave us he gifted us podcast index, and I set up an account and accepted the gift. Oh, great. Luck, it. Thank you. They did it looks like he did about 40 bucks for it. So yeah, I'm telling you. It's like an NFT, bro. But it's done in a very interesting way. But whenever I say that people get no no man.

We really want to have an alternative and DNS system. Sure. Yeah, I want that to yeah, definitely make it easy for everybody and we're in business. And you see that with the dot eath domains to do them. Well. Thank you, Kevin. See, Sammy Minkin as soon as $20.22 Thank you Sammy. He says a Happy New Year Keep up the great work sir Sammy. Let's see $20 From this, these are all PayPal donations.

$20 from Christopher Valerio got gherardo G Banda mass energy a jay AR do Gerhardt guy yada yada doe Come on. Save cheese guy yada. No, I'm just I'm from Alabama. I'm in Texas. Yeah, don't give me give us $20 Thank you Chris. Samuel Thorpe. Gave us $15 A Samuel s Thorpe and no note on that Oh wait, no no no, there's no I take it back. He just says a little value for value thank you to Adam for pointing me in the right direction to get started making my podcast 2.0 fr. Samuel Oh, oh, oh, eight by

the way. I've got a new boost. I said Oh, yeah. Wait Is it this one don't just found our boost? Yeah. You may have to jack up the volume. I didn't I didn't normalize it. See Francesco, Francesco Massey Merlino gave us $10 A new note on that thank you Francesco. I guess Francesco is a boy and Francesca as a girl. Is that typically how it sounds about right? Okay. All right. Okay, for the the resident linguists are fact checking us in real right. That's right. Raymond land gave us $5 No note

thank you. Thank you. And in the best name I've seen in a while. J Robert Appleby Jr. against $5. Nice that sir. Thank you very much. Hey pal. Hey pal. Donors got fun coupons very nice. Guest histograms here. Okay. 1948 SATs from Brian of London. Oh he says Happy New Years and have a great show thank you for everything so far is your cue to boost you know you want to know that came from fountain Oh drips got 100,000 sets Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's curious.

That's Mexican radio that's right. That came through curio Casper and it says go podcasting. Yeah boost we just got a real time booster gram from let's see who did that. No, that was for no agenda. It's just firing off all over the place. Oh, there we go. Oh, the here's a here's 10,000 SATs from Dred Scott during the show during the show just came in and he says go podcasting booth See, this is why we got to do this. Okay, Chad, Pharaoh gave

us 333 says through fountain need you just as first? Okay. Yeah. You were you were first in your first of the Chad pharaohs. Dred Scott. Again 50,000 sets totally crap. The Bruce Wayne of podcasting. 2.0 Ladies and gentlemen, we have no idea where he gets his money from but we think he's inherited it from the from him before Mr. Rockefeller lineage yet he said the Ross Ross Ross child probably Yeah, Warburg may dread Warburg that sounds sounds pretty good.

Through pod friend 50,000 Sassy says go podcasting. Yes, of course we go podcasting For you see, oh, this is that this is Alex gates. You can always tell us Alex because he spells his name Al EC S E Ks. Yeah, yeah, Sir Alex gates. He's sent us 5000 SATs through the breeze app. He says try different font to render unknown Unicode characters. Okay, and did they come through? Now he's telling me to try a different Oh, in my browser. Yeah, cuz they always

get screwed up. Oh, okay. Good idea. I will do that. Thank you, sir. Alex. Oh, here we go. Karen Karen down. Give us 6969 cents for this episode. 69 Oh, Episode donation. Nice one. That's to fountain he said I had to laugh at once clip of his shit Shambo NFT experiences. It's a wild world out there not for the faint of heart. But it was personally more of a fan of NF T's with utility E as a replacement for Tick, tick tock

I guess or tick attack to TS seek a ticket? Yeah, for an alternative to Patreon or maybe even identity verification in the far future. What are your thoughts on Main coins as a low pressure way of onboarding someone into crypto wallet world? Huh, well where are the developers? You know? Yeah, we got hive working and you know that that was that was a labor of love and it's working. So I mean there's a lot of NFT stuff on hive. Yeah. Yeah. I'm

not opposed to NF T's. I just think they need to be there. They're so brand new that everybody's just kind of go into Surco and has no idea what to do with but also ultimately your your NFT your ownership is housed on somebody's server somewhere you know, it's like, how long will that stay up? And see, Abel Kirby gave us 5000 SATs the career caster and he says boost for ag Happy New Year. Thank you. Is ag Alex gates used to great Oh, nice. We get oh 5000 SATs from cotton

gin. He just says Happy New Year. Here Brian mozzie send us 37,500 SATs nice and nice. He says pew Happy New Year boost brings me to over 200,000 says marker for that elusive T shirts. Oh yes. Yes. Yeah, he's in line. We need we need Ben we need your wife to make us t shirts because She evidently can make them and we have no ability to make T shirts anymore. Yeah, she has me setting up a craft room for so I'll really

she she's she's got all sorts of equipment. A laser printer Now that does T shirts and wow cool effusion I don't know she's got

all sorts of crazy stuff. She loves it how many hours a day she has the kids go she literally she had the kids in there making their cousin cousin camp Christmas T shirts are sweaty and rags Mama's got his working in the in the in the sweatshop nice mom said we could have supper tonight if we get 27 after after the app we are going to buy a t shirt factory actually come to come to our CES calm Yeah, we'll hook you up leave and do your merch.

Yes to starting a trust to JPMorgan. Every every industry we got some wireless electricity for you to like. Yeah, and we're a political party. Boom. Yeah. Thank you. SC 22,000 Road ducks 2220 I have a new one for that what Wait, did you get this? That's good. Gosh, I wish I remember who sent it to us. That's nice. I like it. This is the duck it's a duck hunt boost. It's your rubber ducks. Oh it is it is Davison again. You get that is beautiful old school eight bit days.

Peter says Get well soon tiny Dave I will Peter I think I've got my Christmas right here late okay Lincoln sent us 18,000 SATs through pod friend he says my monthly donation oh nice not go through oh he says my monthly donation did not go through so here's a boost to make up for it antenna pod is looking for help to add streaming payments. So if you have experience with Java and Android development hit him up go podcasting nice nice oh let someone be willing to help with that.

That's cool yeah, he posted that on Twitter and started this he was hilarious huge threat was no it was like hey, we're antenna pots looking for help to implement the value for value streaming SATs or whatever. Like there was like an immediate 20 people reply you're boiling the ocean you're killing the earth what they're because of Bitcoin. Yeah. Go talk to Apple. They're the ones boiling the Earth. Yeah, most feed suckers feed polars jobs VRT gives us 4949 SATs through fountain he says just

sent their GG a matching boost. Oh, that was nice. Cool. Thank you for that. Let's see 21 Oh, Rush boost. Okay. Oh, this is Harry pilgrim couldn't resist the trifecta of Dame Jennifer JCD and the keeper reminding me to boost Okay, let's see if I can do that. Here's your cue to boost you know you want to boost boost boost. Qualify Aaron Sal nomics, he sent 1000 SATs through Korea cuz castering He just He says just because I can boost nice boost boosts back at your brother.

Boost 1111 says through breeze is anonymous and it just says JC D boost plus a Fauci boost boost boost boost Boost Your wish is my command. If you want to get on this action people get a modern podcast app a new podcast apps calm Mike Kayden over at Red Circle Road ducks 2222 curio caster it says first red circle busco podcast yeah thanks Mike sigh Mac soon as 500 says through fountain Oh, this is Paul Saltzman Saltzman boosting for the DeVore ag boost Pingel Oh, geez,

we're gonna do that. Yeah, as popular. No, this is this is truly anonymous. It just says BTC pay on Umbral can do donations, thought offsets. Mm hmm. So what is it? What? What are they saying? That, well, there's a number of apps that you can do. Donations, that's the tally coin as well. That's also an Umbral where you can just have a QR code for either b2c or lightning. Okay, I see as a receiver Yeah, I got I got Karen came back in with 11 123 says the curio caster and he says, Oh, I got my

shout out name wrong. It's esto es puck. Spanish. I guess it is sto is podcast. 2.0 Without the ing is that this is E sto then DS. Then podcasting? 2.0 Yeah, that's Spanish. Okay. Pronounce that for me. SOS podcast. 2.0. Okay. What does it mean? Oh, it means this is podcast. 2.00. Okay. All right. This concludes Lesson number one Spanish for podcasters. Karen speaks fluent Spanish as well. And he does a he does a podcast where he does book reviews of like classic

literature but in Spanish. Nice. As a tea. I think it's a teaching tool to help people as if they're in Hong Kong wasn't impressive enough. Now. He does that, too. Yeah, I thought that no, wow. Oh, Dave Jackson. School of podcasting came in with a row of ducks. Nice he says ducks. It's what's for dinner. Cast Breeland says is that do I have the accent? Yeah, you Nailed it. Nailed it. Yeah, just like I know that other than the one before. So what can barf

bag or whatever 3300 says through fountain. He says thanks. Well you're welcome Cass Thank you. 33,000 SATs through fountain and this is from Harry Duran. And my goal is to let as many people know about the beauty of value for value so grateful for what you're both doing super early days but the potential is there to hear your and podcast junkies PPU good guy. Yeah. He just he's out there just promoted. What I'm so happy about though is you know, we just said to

everybody hey, it's nice. We're reading your notes. But now your numbers are low. And we're we're starting to slip in the balance sheet and everyone's corrected that I love that. It's really appreciated. He's big. These big boost numbers are showing the power. Well, this is a huge row of ducks. I mean, this is like a this qualifies as a line of ducks. I think 22 to 22 Wow, from from Kai again from Kira, and through curio caster. He's a high roller he says, I missed my regular boost last week. So

here's a make good, the more you know, there's a podcast. Let's see there's a podcaster from the Dominican Republic called Robert Sassoon, Suzuki, who has been diving deep into podcasting. 2.0 even changed his podcast name to esto es podcasting 2.0 We got about a quarter there you go. Okay. Now Now we understand and he says translation equals this is podcasting. 2.0 see,

totally got a metaphor. He's been providing lots of great informational videos in Spanish. explaining everything from value for value tutorials on Mastadon videos on hive three speak and self hosting on cast upon just wanted to give a shout out to our Latino friends who know what's up send me out with some quacks please

Yes. What is boost in Spanish? They'll boost oh man I don't know how I'll bet so how would you say boost there's not a direct translation that comes to my mind maybe push like an impulse or don't be donated we don't know what do you what do you what is a booster rocket in Spanish? You know? Like Elon has on his spaceships booster rocket it's a quiet Quiet quiet Nicoleta go at death winning cow when you call a bear to give us a good day. Yeah. What's what is it in Dutch was boost in Dutch.

And boost. Boost. Boost a boost? Okay, boost Knoxville boost. Just did all like to the whole conversation between two podcasters and that's where this way you're professional. 28 Yeah, that was 20 to 20. From Karen Thank you Karen. donation to see 12,500 SATs from Brian mozzie night again. This is two weeks of SAS and she says boost yo Gotcha. Boost. 4949 cents from John's BRT. He says excellent interview from the pod guru on Linux on PlayPlace. Pod sage pod sage not get it right.

But I will accept these these says thank you John's BRT out 25,000 SATs from cauldron. I'd seen this name before KU l dri n through fountains 25,000 says he's his pod father in pod stage. Thank you for podcasting in the evolution of 2.0 I've been podcasting since in K v. 2016. What is that? In KV? Freight when I first heard that thought is New King James

Version. I've been podcasting since NKV 2016 and rescued hundreds of people from abuse in this post 50 shades era with my podcast, Coltrane's crypt of BDSM one on one talk. Yay. Now we're talking Yeah, Bruce, this post. If this. If this never would have been invented. My message of safe, sane, consensual and informed adult relationships wouldn't have reached so many. Thank you. Boost. Yeah, an excellent resource of all communities. All communities. See 502,371 Dred Scott, holy

crap. He gets. Shot Carla 20 blades. Okay, he needs his own jingle now. Okay, we have to have a leaderboard. Now. This is getting ridiculous. Drib okay. 5023 77 is messages topping aerostatic his record boost by one sad Happy New Year Ago podcasting jam. Thank you dread town, man. You might as well start a host company with this level of support dread joining on the join one Yeah. Well, he's got the, you know, he's got the chapter service is doing, he must be doing eight or nine

different podcasts. He's doing chapters for him and he's just taking a split from the value from the value block and apparently sending it right back to us. I'm going to begin to refer to him as high roller drips got or independently wealthy drips got nice. The independently wealthy Dred Scott the Bruce Wayne of podcast is still kind of works for me. That's that's a better one. Let's do Bruce Wayne of podcast,

comic strip blogger 10,033 sets. He says greetings to Dave Jones, and they see feel free to listen to our podcast about artificial intelligence entitled AI cooking. Read by former BBC actor Gregory William Forsythe Foreman from Kent UK and to glance at cartoons doodle by me at Comic Strip blog.com Yo, yo, that was a better note. Thank you CSB. I know I told him to integrate it all into one yeah, yes. doing much better on that. Thank you.

And see we got no we got two more. We got Nomad Joe gave us 1000 SATs through fountain he says for a great new year in podcasting. Yeah, thank you hope it will be. And oh, Mike Newman, through breeze says a monthly boost I hear fourteens are big this week. So I'm going all in with him and he gave us 141414 Whoa. Nice 41,414 sets. This is nice. Thank you. Ah, this is good. We should we should skip a show more often. Just a person who into

bi weekly donation. See PayPal. Oh, wait. Chad Pharaoh. I left out of PayPal. I'm sorry. Chad. Pharaoh started a new subscription for $20.22. Beautiful, yeah, somebody else dropped off at they canceled their 20. And then like immediately, like with it like the next day Chad Farrow, data 20. So we, we balanced that. Oh, cool. Cool. All right. So so the balance sheet is okay. This week. We're good.

Yeah, we're good. Eric can can stop drinking. Drinking the my land Everclear and we got some monthly Scott Jaubert gave us $12 These are the monthly subscribers Mark Graham gave us $1 David Mitas $10. Joseph maraca $5 bJ kudelski $1 No No sorry. Bz kudelski $1 Jeremy new $5 Cameron Rose $25 A pod verse $50. Lauren ball $24.20 Mitch Downey $10 Christopher Ciara Barack $10 Terry Keller $5 Jeremy Cavanaugh $10 Jeffrey

Rutherford. $5 sir Alice gates the podcast and 2.0 consultant gave us $25 Chris cow and $5 Paul Saltzman 2222 roadex do it just might as well do it. I'm just getting my ducks. Oh, that's that's a foul though. It's not a Boo. Boo. So I take it Yeah, sorry. That's yeah, sure, and Moeller gives $10 Derek J Vickery gave us $21 Damon Cassie Jack $15 David Norman the ever missing Yes. $25 in Jeremy Garrett's gave us $5 And that's our group. Wow, Gregory, great group, everybody. Thank you so

much. Go to podcast index.org. Scroll down the bottom there's a Donate button for your fee out fun coupons that we gladly accept through PayPal, we converted into bitcoin eventually. Anyway, put it on the node for liquidity for the hundreds of channels we have opened. We have our own microcosm, check that out and go podcasting.org If you want to be blown away. And and of course, thanks everybody who's come to

us through a modern podcast app at new podcast. app.com where podcasts index.org/apps And we need we needed leaderboard for real because we need to enshrine things like air Aesthetica and well, Rep. Scott's epic boost battle. We have it in the database. Yeah, yeah, I can. I can pump it out. Hey, Dave, pump it out, baby. Pump. That's what I do. Yeah, that's right. That is what you do. Oberto and Ben, gentlemen, is some stuff that we missed that you'd like to talk about,

is there anything we can do? Can we change something can we just to wash your car? I think hey, let's let's do the Texas meet up one of these days, not too far. From here. I want to do it when we can get Dave out here which is after that To the shitty tax season or if I can find him a better job before then. Well, always looking for a few more days a boost like you guys have today. We're on our way. Podcast Movement is in Dallas, we need to do something. Oh crap. What is that?

When is that August? August. That's too long. Too far away. We can't wait. And marches before tax deadline. So I don't think we'll see you at evolutions in LA. I imagine. Man I don't want to go to LA May or June. That'd be fun. Yeah, yeah, that's good. That means it's close enough to drag. I can drive that. I don't know. No, no. What will the donation will appear that will equally match? Well, Dave, you're gonna you're gonna stay with me right, aren't

you Melissa? Gonna come stay with us. Sure. We'll have some hill country fun brother. Oh, you're so mad. And there's a lot of people that would come in for them. I haven't seen you and wanting to see last year. Okay. That's right. Last year, but yeah, yeah. And later, I'll cater barbecue. There's a good guy there in Fredericksburg. I know that'll do some barbecue catered. We'll make this a fun meetup if y'all want. Can we all go to the craft room and make T shirts afterwards?

At the sweatshop. I want to do mine with glitter. No, no. would kill me. Bins like bins like I've got a guy who does barbecue. What he really means is this kid. He's cracking the whip. This is a guy he's got 1000 gallon propane tank, he converted teas. Yeah, so that's like, I don't know 60 briskets or something he can do like three four cows all at once. That's fantastic. But I did give him a bunch of wood off our place here and he owes me so I'm sure he'll be happy to do so.

I'll bear to him. Ben are a co founders of rss.com where you can sign up without a credit card and take advantage of their incredible multilingual knowledge base I'm doing the marketing here for you as well as several podcasting 2.0 tags but you know that you're in good safe hands with the Boys and Girls [email protected] And you could do one episode for free Yeah, just make it and Dave will remove it for their algorithm

take you right out of the index. Guys thank you so much for your your unwavering support really really appreciate you and I'm really proud of what you're doing you know just identifying markets getting in you see your expansion you know the whole buying an app and what else we gonna buy a t shirt T Shirt Company right yeah, yeah. I love those aspirations. I really wait near land wait farms. Wind farms do all right Dave anything for you know man, send back the word and getting in the ground. Oh,

okay. Well, we will be back with another board meeting next week podcasting 2.0 check everything out the podcast index.org podcast index dot social will talk to you next week. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast index.org. For more information