Episode 245: Grow Your Show!

Podcasting 2.0 for December 19th, 2025. Episode 245, Grow Your Show. Well, hello everybody. Christmas is almost here. Welcome to the official board meeting of Podcasting 2.0. This is it. It's where it all goes down, where it all happens. We are the place, and we are also the only boardroom that isn't mentioned in the Epstein files. I'm Adam Curry, right here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country, and in Alabama, the man who does more with your API than the postman.

Say hello to my friend on the other end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones. So, if a podcast goes live, and there's nobody in the boardroom, is it still a podcast? No, then it's a YouTube video. That's right, yeah. I mean, there's Daniel and Eric, PP. Yeah, the two, and now, luckily they're on the compensation committee, so it's good that they're here. Yeah, we still get our Christmas bonus. You want to have the comp committee guys always attending the board meetings.

Yeah, it's, I guess everyone's traveling, or getting ready, or who knows? Party planning committee, where are they? I don't see them around. Party planning committee. Or the committee, excuse me, it's either the party planning committee, or the competing committee to plan parties. Either one of those. Yeah, it's super lonely in here. Yeah, yeah, well, you know, the power had their end of year. I completely forgot, kind of slipped my mind to send in my predictions for 2026.

I think it slipped my mind because I don't like doing them. It slipped your mind because you weren't going to do it. Yeah, yeah, that's kind of it. What was your- I did it for both of us. Thank you. What was your highlight from 2025, and your prediction for 2026? I mean, I didn't have a highlight. I was like, for 2025, I was just talking about, it felt like the major players in the industry had finally just accepted the namespace as just, it's a thing that's going to be here. Yeah, I agree.

You know, I feel like 2025 was just sort of like a, okay, this thing's been around a long time. It's not going anywhere. Let's just, let's start the adoption phase. And then also, you know, Apple with the chapters and stuff like that was cool. But, you know, and then my low point of 2025 was Todd's death, you know, that just sucked. But 2026, and this leads to my work this week, was, I just think that 2026 is going to see an explosion of AI slop that we're all going to have to deal with.

Well, did you see my recommendation about this on podcastindex.social? No, thanks. I did, but I can't, I'm trying to remember what you said. Thanks for reading my post. It was days ago. It was days ago. I read it. Yes, I read it. No, I said, you know, instead of this being a problem, why don't we just block as much as we can and every single app that uses the index should market itself as slop-free. Yeah, I think that's great. I think you turn it into a benefit.

You know, if you want to listen to AI slop, go use Spotify or whatever. I really feel like it's an opportunity. No. It's a threat to the infrastructure of podcasting. Yeah, I talked to Dvorak about it actually on the show. And he said, this is spam. You should just block it. Block it all, block it all, said the man who can't even email because he blocks everybody. You block many. I don't block anybody. Well, you don't block them on purpose, but you block email. And this is similar.

This is actually a similar thing. I don't block any email. What are you talking about? Your email filters are so strict. Yeah. If people don't have the email that lives up to email hygiene standards, they get blocked. Oh, then you can F off. Yeah. You mean like DMark and Sakspan and Schmickschmock and all that stuff? Sure, yeah. Yeah, well, that's what email should be. I have to. AdamMcCurry.com is so widely dispersed. It's just insane.

I see that as similar to the problem that we're facing with AI Slob. Yeah. We're not going to block any particular person, but we're going to have to jiggle the knobs and like jiggle the knobs, move the sliders around to make the filters so tight that if you have garbage content, spam slop content, that it just can't get in. I think that's what we're going to have to do. I don't know how you do that. I mean, I think just- I don't either. I think just, well, it has to be a community-led project.

And I like just calling it TTS. I like that a lot. You know, text to speech, you're out. Just know. That's it. Um, well, yeah. Yeah. If you can't talk, then you don't deserve to be here. Yeah. You're not in full agreement because this is the Dave Jones version of I don't agree by saying, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, I promise. It's not that I don't agree. It's, I'm trying to, you know, like this kind of thing requires like precision of language.

I'm trying to, in my mind, I'm trying to figure out how to like define what we're doing. Here's the analog. So ever since everyone told me that YouTube is podcasting, I paid a little bit more attention. And the first thing that is very obvious and is kind of annoying and makes it difficult is every single image is AI generated.

Every single one that most of them have, you know, some kind of outrageous look, you know, or some click bait type of you won't believe, or this is awesome game changer, you know, all of that. And so it already makes it kind of difficult to predetermine what I think is going to be of any interest in a particular topic.

And of course the algo has brought things into my purview, but the amount of slop that, you know, you wind up listening to five minutes listening slash watching until you realize, oh, okay, nothing's ever going to come. It's just going to be these images rotating stock images. And that happens a lot. It's a huge time waster. And so that's the kind of stuff that I think we should try to avoid because that to me, that's just YouTube spam. Yeah, yeah, I've had the same experience.

You get about, I don't know, four or five minutes into a 17 minute video. Yeah, which you think is good. It's like, oh, only 17 minutes. Yeah, this is right on topic. And it never goes anywhere. Yeah, it's just endless reiterations of the same thing. The same talk, like the same speaking over and over and over. And then you start to notice these images look a little off. Well, it becomes obvious. Like I, you know, I'm a Ford truck nut.

So I was watching some video a few weeks ago about the history of the Ford FE engine. And it starts showing pictures like about three or four minutes into it. It starts showing pictures of like- No, it was engines that are like, they have like seven drives, seven camshafts in them. I'm like, wait a second. This is not, this is impossible. What is going on? Yeah, this thing looks like something from, you know, the Voyager satellite or something.

But it's just, yeah, I think that kind of, the threat to podcasting infrastructure is that we just get overwhelmed. And it's not just us. Like, that's the point I was trying to make. No, everybody's bumping into this. For yeah, Apple is, their directory is full of this garbage too. And because I see when they're like, so the new endpoint, it's not new. That's a lie. It's an old endpoint, but I just took the authorization off of it so that you don't have to have an API token to hit it.

And it just, and I beefed up the amount of details it returns about the feed. So this is just simply listing the last X number of feeds that the podcast index has ingested. So you can hit this API endpoint and it will give you, based on whatever criteria you request. So if you just give it a maximum number, it'll just give you the last up to 25,000. It'll give you the last X number of podcasts that we ingested. Oh, okay. In chronological order. How about this?

Should we have a feedback loop that everybody can access and not, I mean, not open

endpoint, but something that apps could put in to their interface that says this is slop and then just hit it. Cause I don't mind reviewing that. In fact, I'd probably enjoy it. Yeah. I think that's exactly where this needs to go is we have a user reportable through some mechanism and all the podcast apps could like. Yeah, it can incorporate.

And as soon as something gets flagged or whatever as AI slop or whatever it is, then they can push that flag upstream and then we can have people that look at it or whatever. How about this? I don't know. How about this? Adding another endpoint, open endpoint for other directories or other indexes, et cetera, to access to see what we have flagged as slop so that they can then take that and, you know, Apple, do you hear me? You'll be happy with it.

I wonder what their policy, I'd love to know what their policy is about that. I mean, I'm sure they're having these conversations. Oh, I'm sure. I mean, I know they are because they're the ones, you know, they were asking early on for an AI tag that would be labeled. Yeah, but that's never gonna work. It's like the explicit tag. Well, so this, this is, the thing that bothers me about this model though is that it's always the abuse. Well, yeah, you have a ban hammer.

It can be used anywhere on everything at any time. But if ultimately, let's just say two trusted people, for instance, the judges of the index awards. Oh, those guys. Those guys. If they were the guys who were checking it, I mean, how much could it be? I mean, first of all, we're gonna shut off Inception. Just shut it off. Just kick them out. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they themselves admit, we don't listen to it.

And, you know, and the thing that is bothersome about that is you check one of those shows and you get two ads. That just pisses me off. Yeah, it's the first thing you hear. So that to me is almost the definition of spam. Man, I got a good call this week. A good phishing, hacking call. Oh, you got another one of these similar to the sheriff's office? Yes, this is just as sophisticated.

So first- By the way, a person I work with in my day job, they got this exact, they got a clone of the exact call you got from the sheriff's office. Yeah, a lot of people have mentioned that to me. Some of you even said, if you hadn't mentioned that, I might've fallen for it. Oh, yeah. So this one, my phone rings and it says Google in the display. Now, right away, I know this can't be real because not only does Google never call anybody, you can't call them.

So this is, I know this is a scam, but I'm interested. I pick it up. It's an automated system. Someone in Toronto is trying to access your account. A representative from, oh, if this was you, hang up. If it wasn't you, press one and a representative will call you. So I press one. About a minute later, get a call. Same area code. Doesn't say Google, but it has 650 and I know that's the right area code. Very well-spoken young woman. Very well-spoken.

And with that, I mean, no hint of any Asian accent. Sounded very professional. Wasn't flustering her words or anything. And went through this whole thing. And, you know, this is your phone number. This is adamercurry.com, yes. Someone is trying to open a ticket to change the phone number that goes with your Gmail account, with your Google account. So, huh, okay. Says, and so she went through a couple of questions, which are really good. So yeah, that's me, that's me.

And then she says, okay, so we've determined this is you or that this Toronto is not you. So this person has opened up a ticket, so you need to close the ticket. And once you, as the owner of this account, close the ticket, then it goes away. I'm like, okay, that sounds reasonable. Yes, could you go to this website? Now I'm like, okay, let's see how this goes. Sites.google.com slash close dash ticket. I'm like, well, that's just public, excuse me, websites that anyone can set up.

She says, oh, but hold on a second. We'll send you an email with a code to prove it. And bloop, in comes a code, looks official from Google. No reply at google.com, this is your code. Say, okay. And it came into your email. Yes, I said, all right. So I go to the web, so I hit the link to the website and she says, okay, do you see the place to close the ticket? I said, no, it's asking me to log in. Yeah, could you just log in? I'm like, no, I don't think I wanna do that.

Because if you were nefarious, and she's calm, man, she's sticking with it. And she keeps on going. And I said, well, what email address do you have for me at Google? She says, well, adammccurry.com. I said, no. She says, yes, adammccurry.com is linked to your Gmail account. I said, no. No, it's not. And she says, yes, it is. It's hosted on Google Workspace. I have the MX record right here. I thought, wow, that's sophisticated. I said, I have the MX record here too. It's not.

And she eventually wound up just hanging up. But I can totally see where, because I think Brian of London posted an Apple version of this, and it's sophisticated. The confidence part of the con game is good. And before you know it, you've given them your two-factor, your second-factor authorization code, and boom, you're done. I mean, the internet sucks. It just sucks balls. The whole thing- It's terrible. It was a terrible mistake. It really was. It was a huge mistake.

And it's just no way everybody can stay safe in this environment. Just no way. Unless your AI somehow does it for you, but that's iffy. Well, that's, I'm glad you said that, because I need to pass that information along to other people. You got to tell everybody, especially older people. Oh yeah, because that's, unfortunately, that's the primary target. Yep, yep. Hey, should we bring in our guests for today, Dave? Because we have quite a celebrity with us today.

Ladies and gentlemen of the boardroom, those of you who are here, please welcome the brains behind many of the modern podcasting formats, protocols, and magic moments. Say hello to Mr. Alex Gates, everybody. Hello, hello, hello. Well, hello, hello. Hello, hello, Alex with the CK Gates. How you doing, brother? I'm very well. How are you, Adam? I'm good. I'm good. It's good to hear your voice. It's been a hot minute. It's been at least a year, maybe even longer.

I can't remember the last time you were in the boardroom. Yeah, I think it was the hashtag discussion in like 2024 or something. And how did that wind up? I mean, we haven't really been focused on new standards, so I think people just need to do it and put some adoption. I love that. Everything we come up with in the boardroom is usually as a post later on podcasts and next on social, and Alex says, well, yeah, I proposed this 18 months ago. You want to take a look at it?

This is how I thought we should do it, yeah. Yeah, yeah, with a link to a lengthy post from 2020, 2023. So what are we here for today? Dave, you invited Alex to come on. I did because we need to talk about, we need to talk about a couple of things, but primarily the thing we talked about recently with taking owners, sort of taking some control of attestation.

So whatever, this advantage that Apple Podcast Directory has where they have the owner of the podcast is going in there and talking and confirming that they're the owner and then like giving authoritative action to the podcast. Like this is my URL, blah, blah, blah.

You know, and we talked about having an open version of that, you know, moveyourpodcast.com or something, that's a terrible name, but we talked about having a website, a web interface somewhere where podcasters could go and confirm that their ownership of a podcast feed and- No, no, no, we discussed it differently. Ownership of a podcast and then whatever feeds are associated with it. That's the way I understood it.

So that's, I was careful with my words, ownership of a podcast feed, because that's what you, that's the only way we can verify the ownership and then you could have multiple feeds. Okay. You know, that you combine. So, but you're having to verify against a feed somewhere because that's what you're ultimately doing.

So like, that has to be the backbone of whatever, or the backbone of whatever we're going to do here has to start with some ability to, in an open way, have an attestation of ownership that can be read by and seen by everyone. And so Alex has some ideas about pod paying and I was like, yeah, let's talk about it. Yeah. So we need to frame this discussion in a few different aspects. I really like the framing of a podcast as an entity.

And then we also need to talk about how that's going to work in a pod paying world in both with Hive and without Hive eventually. We're talking like maybe even a decade down the road. I don't know how long, but so, so let's talk about, so what do we need to attest in the first place? So, I mean, it's great that we have this idea that this podcast is more than the feed, like it could be a multiple feeds.

It could even be like technically anyone with one feed URL, but is also using like IPFS podcasting. Those are, if it's the same feed, but two different URLs, like that's a perfect use case for this. However, we still need to have a way of identifying the podcast identity as a separate resource. So maybe it would be if it's moviepodcast .com or a podcast license or whatever, it still needs to generate some kind of identifier.

So we need to figure out how that's going to work and I don't have the answer right now. Maybe it's just a different keyword, I don't know. And then we need to establish a way to trust that attestation in the first place. And let's think about how that might work with Hive. We might just have a dedicated Hive account from that everyone knows it's from moviepodcast.com. And maybe we'll start out, we'll say, anyone posting from this account, we trust them. We know it's from the podcast index.

That's kind of how the whole system runs today. Like there's a central source of trust that kind of bootstraps the whole system. But down the road, we're going to need to establish some kind of reputation system. Like if we move away from Hive, we need to think about how do we trust, but verify that all these people posting these messages saying I've updated my feed, I'm going live. I own this feed.

You know, we're going to have to think about some kind of digital reputation system that bootstraps off of what we're building today. So that's, yeah, that's kind of where I'm at in the whole thing. What do you think about like a podcast identifier?

Yeah, like I was thinking that, I had a couple of thoughts about this recently where if, I think we fall victim a lot of times with being as obsessed as we are, and rightly so, with doing things in an open way where we don't, or excuse me, in a decentralized way. But then if, but we don't always, we don't necessarily have to like start there. We can start there.

And as long as we keep those goals in our mind, we can eventually build, we can eventually get our system to where it is that way, but we could start with a little bit of trust at the beginning. And so that led me to thinking like what you were just saying, if there's a, okay, let me just lay out the model I thought of. If like, Let's Encrypt is already doing something that's kind of like this.

If we had a way for, they're using the ACME protocol, but if we took sort of like, kind of like a spiritual influence from them and said, okay, if we're gonna claim, if we need a claim of ownership that's verifiable to begin, to sort of begin the process, and we already have systems in place for feeds that are hosted.

Now, it doesn't work if you self-host, that has to be like a different, that's a little bit different, but for the feeds that are already hosted at companies like Blueberry and Buzzsprout and RSS.com and Transistor and blah, blah, blah. Those, they could do the attestation in a sort of Lips Encrypt back and forth way with us.

So if somebody said, like, I'm thinking for instance, if just take for example, Transistor, if they had a, somewhere on their interface in their UI, if they had a place for the podcast creator who's already logged into their dashboard to say, go claim your podcast on so-and-so, then they could sort of bounce them over to our system, which would already be pre-verified where we could do a sort of a handshake back and forth with them.

And then we could sort of pod ping out, here's an, or however that needs to happen on the second level, pod ping out, here's the signed identifier or whatever that has, this is verified by its owner that this is the owner of this thing. What does that, I mean, does that, like, because it doesn't really solve, like we would have to run to a separate thing where people could do this process manually, but for the ones that are, you essentially already have a validation on the hosting company.

How does that work with the example you used last week where someone still has an rss.com account, but then decides that they're gonna try out Buzzsprout? So that, that's exactly what I was thinking, because if you have, they have two accounts, so they can, if they're verified, if they're doing a validation, you know, we could, they can say, oh, once they get, and they get that thing validated, we could also ask them, you know, where did you come from?

Like, do you have any, does your podcast fee, do you have any other feeds for this podcast that exist anywhere else? And then they could go through that validation on those things too.

Like, because they still have, like, especially at the beginning, they still have those accounts there, and they may be bouncing from one host to another, but they, we might be able to sort of like have these linkages with hosting companies where they can help us sort of consolidate all these feed URLs or all these kinds of instances of a feed into, of a podcast into one sort of verifiable entity. And how does that work with hijacked feeds? Because there's a lot of them.

Well, they wouldn't be able to verify because they wouldn't have control ownership over the feed itself. Well, there's a lot of people who, I guess that's impossible to do, but there's a lot of people out there who just rehost episodes in an almost, or completely identical feed.

Right, but so like, if you have, so if you have something like this, like the Joe Rogan podcast, and somebody does a hijacked feed of that on Anchor, well, they can't, they may have exactly a cloned feed, but they can't do that second step verification to Joe's real account. Right, but what if they register first? I'm just going through all the steps. So what if they say, yeah, I'm the Joe Rogan account, and then Joe Rogan comes along and says, nah, you're not the Joe Rogan account.

Well, okay, so we're talking about a couple of different things, and like, I think we're confusing some stuff. Like, you're thinking of it as sort of like a universal identifier for like an identity. Like, I'm Joe Rogan, and this is my podcast. Yeah, that's not how I should be thinking about it. Well, that's not, I wasn't, yeah, that's a different thing.

That's sort of like a universal identifier for an individual, but this, what we're talking about is sort of, or what I'm talking about is sort of an overlay for a podcast as an entity, and then this, and we already have a way to establish sort of a baseline of what those are, and it's the things that are already in the index.

So focus on the family with Jim Daley, that main show, we already have an idea, and this is a good example, because this happened recently, they were still, we still had them listed with FeedBurner feeds. So actually, let's talk about this, because this was, this is a perfect example of this. So focus on the family with Jim Daley, that's their flagship show, and the, they're quote -unquote main feed, the real feed for that podcast is on Omni.

But they also had the FeedBurner URL for that show, which is updated because it's a proxy. It's most likely a proxy for the Omni feed. It's also getting updated every single time. So in a way, it doesn't necessarily matter what the feed URL was, because you're getting the content every time. It was sort of irrelevant, and this is a perfect example of the point I was trying to make.

It's kind of irrelevant what the feed URL was, because every single day you got the new episode with the exact same content. True, true. The only problem though is when you get a mismatch where perhaps Omni supports a tag that the FeedBurner proxy is not passing through correctly, and then you're losing fidelity. So then you would have a problem there.

But this is a good example, because I guarantee you, there are people all over the internet that are subscribed to the Focus on the Family FeedBurner feed. Oh yeah, definitely. Not the Omni feed. And so it's important that both of those feeds be recognized as, not necessarily authoritative, that's the wrong word, but as valid under the scope of what Focus on the Family is as a podcast. So they could go, so we already know that Focus on the Family with Jim Daley is a thing, it's an entity.

So now we just need to know what feed URLs sort of point to this thing. So that's the problem. So if we start with this entity, then we have somebody coming in and saying, hey, I am Focus on the Family. And I can prove ownership of the feed by doing X. And then you have like a place to start. And as we say, okay, well, we also see that you have a feed burner. There's also a feed burner feed that claims this. Are you the owner of that too? Yeah, I am. We'll go verify that one.

So you begin to sort of like, Alex, am I making sense? Yeah, there's different parts here. Proving a feed ownership, which we do today with the lock tag and Apple's TXT record for proving feed ownership. We could extend that maybe with public key infrastructure or something like that. But proving that you own a feed is pretty straightforward. We already have processes for that. The second part Adam was referring to is more like reputation based, right?

Where, how do I know who you are, who you say you are? Feed ownership is a good example of that. But we could also extend that to some of the social elements like, you know how I messed it on or social media websites who can prove you on a GitHub repository, or do you guys remember the service Keybase where you can like prove you own like a social media account? Oh yeah, yeah, sure. Well, that's all part of reputation and we can build in reputation scores.

So I think we can approach it from two different angles in that regard. I mean, all I really care about is that we name it the podcast exclusive naming identity service. That's the only thing I care about. Yeah, yeah, this is the most important part. That's what I care about. Yeah, it needs to be very hard to, you know, it just needs to be hard. Thank you, penny dropped.

Yeah, good, Dave. Yeah, well, what do you think about the whole idea that the hosting companies already have a verifiable ownership sort of in their hands that they could pass to us? Is that useful? I think, yeah, I think it's very useful. Okay, it's a matter of trust. And I mean, as much as you want to, you can't discount the societal impact of a community and the level of trust an entity brings. So there might be some higher trust hosts and there might be some lower trust hosts.

If you wanna do a self-hosted RSS feed, you come along, people have no idea who you are. You're gonna have to, just like in, if you like move to a new city or something or village or whatever, you're gonna have to establish a base of trust and that might take some time. In that regard, it's kind of like hosting your own email server. It's gonna take, you can do it, but it's gonna take some time to get trusted. Is there any?

Go ahead, Alex. Oh, so we can take those existing reputation scores and kind of learn from that too. Like eventually we'll want, it might be, you know, centralized at first, but we can use that basis of reputation to provide some kind of podcast and feed reputation score. What is the existing analog to this system we're talking about? I don't, I think the existing analog is we already take all these actions and various different indexes and so forth every day in apps.

It's just, we're trying to formalize it into a, into a sort of a specification. You could take some kind of analog and, I'm sure there's some kind of a society based philosophical thing here. Well, for sure, I think the right path is to start with the hosting companies to provide a lot of that verification. That just sounds so right to me. Because, you know, if we can make it simple enough that, oh Lord, even if ACAS or what now, what's their name? The Spotify service. You're thinking of Anchor.

Anchor. If they would do it, because, you know, if we can get the hosting companies that if it's something simple enough that they can do this, then we actually can create something beautiful. I think that's the right direction. I think there's sort of, there's the fee, there's at least two steps to what we're trying to do. And I think that's kind of makes it a little bit confusing.

But so if we have, if we have a podcast verification mechanism, which like Alex said, we already have multiple ways to do this. That part's not a problem. Then the question then is like, what happens next? So how do you- Right. So let's take the example. I go from rss.com, but like, I'm going to use Buzzsprout. What happens now? Does Buzzsprout go, oh, hold on. We see that you have an account with rss.com? See, okay. So let me back up to the podcast GUID.

Because that's one of the things this was meant to fix. The podcast GUID was supposed to be a universal identifier where if somebody is moving from one podcast host to another, that the podcast GUID would remain the same. That way you could say, okay, I moved my podcast from Captivate to Transistor. And so my podcast GUID is the same here. That way everybody knows this is the same show. And it was meant as a sort of like identifier of the show, not the feed.

And you parse, or so you initially create the GUID by a seed value and the URL, but that's just to give you the initial GUID. It really doesn't matter what the GUID was. You just needed one. And then once you had one for the life of your show, no matter where it lives, that GUID just remains the same. Now, I don't blame the hosting companies for this because they're not the ones that are the problem here.

The problem is that the feed owners go and create, they create manually their same podcast on multiple hosts. They're not doing like an import. If they do an import, then the GUID should remain the same. It should be consistent. But the creators or podcast consultants or whoever's doing this, they're not doing an import or a move. They're just going and creating a new podcast with all the same details. And so you end up with this sort of like two versions of the same thing.

So that, you know, in one way, in some way we already sort of kind of solved this, but we didn't because there's still this huge mess of people not doing things the right way. So in your example, if we go, if somebody goes from, you know, Buzzsprout to rss

.com, well, then they should, if this is all working correctly, they would have verified their podcast on Buzzsprout and then they get over to rss.com and rss.com's interface says, hey, don't forget, don't forget, go register your podcast over at registeryourpodcast.com or whatever this thing's called. You know, be sure and go do that step because it's important. As a sort of social credit score, you know, type thing, go do that step. And then when they get there, now it's like, oh.

Don't use that term. Don't use social credit score as a term, please. Cotton gin polluted my thinking. Yeah, I know. So, but you're, you know, like a reputation mechanism to say I'm, you know, here's my thing and I've attested to it. And so if that, and then once they hit, once they're in that phase of things, now you're back into the realm of, oh, hey, you know, you've already got this podcast over here and now you've got a podcast over here. These look like the same thing. Are they the same?

And you say, yeah. And he's like, oh, okay, well, now we know who you are. Now we know what, now we know what show this is. But then after that, now, what does that step look like? And that's where I think, if I'm not mistaken, we could do something through Podpain where we just, you know, publish, you know, a certificate or something like that. That's a sort of a verification mechanism to say this person, this podcast- I like that.

Had its ownership verified and then that can be another signal of reputation is, that makes sense to me, at least. Yeah, I think the service would maybe, so maybe moviepodcast.com, you know, the more we talk about it, the less I like the name because it's not really moving your podcast anymore. It's podcast ownership and stuff. I think it's going to be, it's going to have to do some kind of good podcast, good reconciliation.

So maybe, you know, whenever you register your feeds, it's going to see which goods you have and it's going to, if they're all the same, you know, it's, there's not going to be an issue. But if you have a bunch of different goods for the same podcast, it might, you know, have instructions on how to fix that and just choose one for you. Or it might see that you've taken a goods that someone else has registered and, you know, tells you how to fix it and so forth.

And then it might be as simple as just attesting that the good match is registered to that feed URL in Podping. And moviepodcast.com has a Hive account and everyone looks at that attestation and that Hive account says, okay, we trust this. And then they use that good for that feed. Yeah, so I could see where, Nathan's asking what, you know, somebody fill me in on what the reputation will be in service of.

It's, we're talking about the sort of claiming ownership of a feed, but in a way that's universal, where that claim of ownership can be disseminated and trusted amongst all the participants in the podcast, you know, ecosystem. And so if, no matter where you're coming from is sort of the goal there.

So if you had, if I understand you right, Alex, you're like, the way that would work is you would say, you know, you've got these two feeds and, or you've got, you've just created a feed over here and it looks like the same feed as over here. And we could sort of help the podcaster and say, hey, you've got two shows or you've got what looks like one show that has multiple feeds. Is that what, are you wanting to do that? Is that what you intend?

Because if not, you may be causing confusion with, and sort of like give them, it could be a helpful service to them as well because they may be screwing themselves up just through ignorance. Yeah, it's that.

And then it's also thinking down the road where, you know, if we can establish a reputation system now, once we're ready to start decentralizing the whole system, we can use that bootstrap reputation score or whatever we call it to help establish a more decentralized way of trust, improving ownership and so forth. Okay. So I'm a little cloudy. To me on the last episode, it also sounded a bit like Linktree where I can say, I'm Joe Rogan. Here's my megaphone feed. Here's my YouTube channel.

Is that now off the table with this system? No, I think we're talking about the same thing. Let me just say this, that it is completely understandable that people would be confused by what I said last week. Completely understandable.

I do not blame anybody for being confused about what I was talking about because it's a universal thing that whenever you take a concept and start breaking it down into smaller and smaller pieces, if you get to the, as you go down in the level of the building blocks, it gets actually harder to understand. I think that's kind of a universal thing. Right.

You know, like, it's like, as you start talking more and more specifically, you get lost, but you start to not be able to see the forest for the trees. So can you just tell me again, what is the problem we're solving with this? So the problem we're solving, trying to solve is the, maybe I can come at, maybe I can come about it a different way. Okay. So we have two different, us and Apple. We have two different methodologies or two different ways of looking at podcasting.

Apple, as is their want, they look at it from the standpoint of an account. You have an account at Apple Podcast Connect. You go and you put your podcast into their directory that way. They still have another way to get shows in there, but that's their primary focus. And that's a validation mechanism. That's why, that's why Anchor back in the day had to hire all those interns to start manually putting shows into Apple because they had to have accounts in order to do it.

And so they were just using labor to do that. We have a completely different philosophy on how to build a directory. And our philosophy has always been, if we find a feed out there that looks like a podcast feed, it's in there, done. Apple has an advantage in this, not that we're competitors, we're not, but Apple has an advantage in that they have a human being that is claiming ownership in some way that they can verify.

And they require, one of their verification steps requires putting a code into your feed so that they can verify. That's why they adopted the TXT record. And so they have an advantage where they can prove that a human being, or at least something that looks like a human being, who knows nowadays, is doing this thing. We don't have anything like that.

And as is typical for us, rather than just replicating what they do in podcast index, we're trying to solve it in a way that's open and it makes it a thousand times harder. Yeah, and case in point, we're in the Apple database, neither you or I put it in there. Yeah, I don't have a- Some other human did that. So, you know, the reputation is shot as far as I'm concerned. Well, you know, that's, and that's like a, it's human curated over there from the top down.

And that's just the way they like to do things. And it actually, it works well. It keeps a bunch of junk out of their directory, but not all the time. Yeah, but does it, I mean, RSS.com auto-submits. I mean, is that a generalized API account that just says rss.com? You mean auto-submits to Apple? Yeah. Oh, I don't think they do, do they? Yes, they do. You don't have to have a account? Nope. You just check the box on rss.com for Spotify, for Apple, for Amazon, and it just happens.

Okay, so they're using their hosting relationship. They must have a special connection, okay. Yeah, but that's important, particularly in this aspect. It is. Because doing it in an open way that doesn't make us the central authority of the whole world, which it makes everything way, way harder. And in order to even begin to get a feeling for what to do, you have to analyze what every aspect of the existing way that things are.

And so you have to get a little bit philosophical first before you get technical. And we're kind of in the in-between stage now where we're like, okay, but you weren't wrong in saying that that's kind of what we're after in your sort of Linktree idea. It's like, you have to have a starting point and then sort of an ending point where you say, okay, we're starting from this place. How do we get to the Linktree sort of building block and then what happens after?

I think that's kind of what we're trying to figure out right now. I think Keybase is actually a better analogy because it has a list of all your social media accounts, but it also provides a way to cryptographically sign stuff, which is, I'm not saying that we're gonna have to do that necessarily, but that's a way of finding who you are and a method of proving in other means. Keybase, is that the GPG? Yes. Yeah, it provides GPG keys and so forth.

Okay. And then just to answer Adam's question, I mean, it's a way of proving feed ownership is gonna help in a lot of ways. It's not just multiple hosts, it's multiple different URIs, especially like this podcast is on IPFS podcasting. Yep. How do you prove that you own that URL? Like that we're gonna have to, I think this will help do that. And I think it's a valid use case to have multiple URLs for a feed in several scenarios.

Additionally, having this bootstrap reputation system, I think will actually help solve the AI slop issue you mentioned you started the show with because we can use this as a place for the whole community at large, the trusted members of the boardroom to mark feeds as AI slop. Yeah, I like that. Yeah. Yeah, cause this is, okay, well, it's similar to TLS. If you have, just because a website has a TLS certificate, that doesn't mean that it's a safe website.

No. It doesn't mean that it's not complete garbage. It could be just a piece of crap spam website with nothing but ads on it that nobody ever wants to look at or go to. Somebody has still done an ownership verification and that's all that Let's Encrypt is doing is they're saying, do you own this domain? Yeah, well, here's a certificate. And so it's the sort of the same with us. You have that step that says, do you own this podcast? Prove it. Okay, you proved it. You're the owner of this podcast.

Now there's this other thing where are you, is this garbage? Okay, so you at least get a leg up in that fight by having some sort of verification step, but then you have to also go like what Alex said. You have to have a human curation trusted. Somebody has to look at it and say, yeah, this is or this isn't. You don't really get away from that. I mean, we could make it easier, I think.

Like, we can make it easier by passing it through sort of a loose filter first, which is sort of the same way corporate email spam filtering and virus filtering works today. You have sort of like 90% of the spam just gets blocked and you never see it. And if you ever go look at it, you're like, oh, that's just, you know, that's 100% obvious. So they take away, they get you 90 % of the way there. And then that last 10%, you just gotta have real human eyeballs to look at it.

It's going to be a lot less manual than that sounds too. I mean, like you said, rss.com or Buzzsprout, you know, if they publish it, you know, they do their own checking. So it's going to be a little bit more reliable. And additionally, we could provide some kind of trust API for John Spurlock's input too, you know, for example. So how can I market this to normies? What do I say? You need to do this because... To do the verification step thing?

Yeah, why do you need to be a part of this verified trusted identity for your podcast? Well, for, you know, that's a good thing to say because what I think implicit in what we're saying but not spoken is that when you, if you go and have, if somebody takes the time to go and verify, that is a, that's a meaningful signal.

So that, when it comes to things like discovery and that sort of thing, a podcast where somebody has taken an extra step to, you know, to go and say, hey, this is legit, this is my show, somewhere somebody has taken some extra step, that's a signal that we can use to show quality. It doesn't, you know, I don't like, and Brooklyn said he said the C word, this is not censorship. This is like, I mean, and this is no more censorship than having a spam folder in your mailbox is censorship.

Like there is some things that are just, that are truly garbage. And I don't mean garbage as a moral judgment. I mean, as a fact, you know, I saw, and go look at, oh, corporate, I see what you mean. Sorry about that. Go and look at the recent news feeds endpoint, or recent feeds endpoint.

You'll see exactly, as you're looking through there, this, it's funny how this all goes back to the, was it, was it the hustler guy that, or the judge in the hustler case that was like, I don't, I can't define porn, but I know it when I see it. Yeah, that was the Larry Flynn case. Larry Flynn. Larry Flynn case. It's funny how all this stuff comes back to that. I can't, I can't define it, but I know it when I see it. So often that is the case.

And if you look at that new feeds endpoint, you're like- What is that endpoint, Dave? It is api.podcastindex.org slash, let me get it verified. Yeah, podcastindex.org. API V1. I think it's recent new feeds API. That's V1 API. V1, yeah. I can't find it. Where did I put it? Is it documented somewhere? Yeah, yeah, it's, oh, I know where to get it. Let's see, docs. Usually this is the time when Nathan pipes in and drops the link. Yeah, but he's drinking the eggnog right now. Oh, here it is.

I gotta copy clean link. I was actually, Nathan, I was asking for the URL. Yeah, okay. Oh, there it is. There it is. Yeah, thank you, Dave. All right, got it. Yeah, so that's the thing. So you can scroll through this and you can be, and you can just see, yep, there's one. Yep, there's one. There's one. The ones that are junk, that you know are just like monetization farming through or affiliate spam, that kind of thing. You just, they stand out like a sore thumb.

Well, and Dave, some of it's just accidental too, like WordPress feeds. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah. Like you could say it's just bad implementation or it's a bug. There's all sorts of scenarios. Or, and you know, we could even think about pod ping spam as well. Like, you remember that guy that you had to block that was publishing like thousands and thousands of updates for? Yes. That's, it could be considered malicious behavior if not a bug.

And we could take like, you were able to block it because it was on pod ping.cloud, but theoretically they could spend all the money they want and publish on their own pod ping account. And that's a sign of negative reputation, like, hey, you're spamming the system. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. And so before, in the interest of time, why don't, we've had two, the last two weeks people have brought up that Hive is quote, shaky, unquote. And I have no idea. I don't know if that's true or not.

All I know is that Brian of London usually pops in and tells us that that's fake news, but he has not. The fact that he didn't is kind of sus. That kind of concerns me. Cause I was banking on Brian being like, you know, that's fake news, but he didn't, he's not said anything. So I'm like, what? Do we build our own blockchain? I guess, is that the question? Yeah, I mean, I haven't heard anything either. Usually Brian tells me if something's going to happen.

I've been thinking about this for years. So it's not like the recent discussion is causing a change in my regard. I want to get away from Hive just because I don't think any implementation detail is a good thing for this sort of technology. I think we need to start thinking about how to develop and use the system's reputation proving that you are who you say you are and proving that you own an RSS feed by some means.

I think this podcast thing might become the new sort of account based system that we have on Hive. Saying that we need a blockchain, that's probably a little bit extreme. But it's so hip. Yeah, I mean, you could do, I think the nano blockchain has a way of having individual like micro blockchains for every different wallet or something that might be worth considering.

But I mean, I think, I talked to you about this Dave a while ago, maybe having some kind of RSS feed versioning system where you have different versions of RSS feeds to be able to look up historical feeds and like the latest version might be something worthwhile.

And it's all these ideas of using reputation, using different ways of proving feed ownership and having a peer-to-peer based system bootstrapped off of everything we're working on with some kind of a decentralized protocol I think is the way to go. I don't have implementation details yet, but that's where my mind is. Yeah, Eric, we've looked at Eero and LabP2P and that kind of thing. Alex and I have done tests on that in the past and run some proof of concepts and stuff like that.

It's never, there's always been sort of blockers here and there where like, especially with like LabP2P, they get, they drop, initially they were all in on IPFS but then they pulled out of IPFS with their swarm protocol and that kind of thing. So I think, or the pub sub, I'm sorry. And so there's always a little bit of thing. I mean, Eero looks very promising, but I don't know if it's solid enough yet.

The only thing that, I guess the only thing that brought up blockchain to me is I like, the thing that I like about the blockchain aspect is that you have this record where you can go back, because this is the other thing that I was thinking about literally this morning is in the, like in the domain name world, in the DNS world, one of the big reputation factors is your age, how long you've been around.

And the blockchain lets you have this sort of, lets you have this immutable record where you can say, here's where this podcast, this feed was born. Here's how old this thing is. And like that can be a major, if it's provable through a non-modifiable ledger, then you have this way to say this thing is this old and I can prove it, which is cool. Yeah, maybe if we can do the micro blockchain approach, which I'm nowhere near an expert in any of this.

So I'm speculating a lot, but maybe each podcast entity could have its own little tiny blockchain that gets distributed throughout the ledger or something like that. But it's a great idea. I don't think any of it matters until we have a basis of being able to prove you are who you say you are in one manner or another. I actually think that's- Do you have a proof of RSS or something?

Yeah, I think the web UI part of that, like where you're proving your ownership, I think that feels very simple to me. That seems easy to build. I think we could get through that pretty quick. And then it's just a matter of like what you're saying, where does that proof go afterwards? I'm going to have to ask again, because I don't think I really heard the answer. How can I market that people need to do this? And when I say market, it's like back in the day, oh, you're doing a podcast?

Okay, you've got to register with Apple. So- Okay, so why? But why did you tell them they have to register with Apple? I didn't tell anybody that. That was the thing. Well, I mean, not you. Apple told, if anyone, Apple told them. Well, first of all, people don't understand how it works. You know, we have to- But what was the carrot though, that was being dangled? If you want to be on Apple's podcast, you've got to register with Apple's podcast system.

Okay, well, so, well, maybe we, maybe the carrot that we dangle in order to get this thing jump-started is go claim your podcasts in this open system, and then that gets you on some sort of chart. Yeah, you're fired from the marketing department. I think they're sorry. It's some sort of- Chart, a chart. No, the domain is some sort of dot chart. Yes. And you get a sticker. Get the sticker, yes. Top 5% of the web that comes back to us. But you see what I'm saying?

It's like either you use a fear-based marketing, protect your podcast, that's one way to do it. The other, and I'm struggling, I'm just trying to figure out what, how do we give this some fuel so that people are like, oh yeah, this is great, I need to be a part of this, I want to be in on that, because it will grow my show. Yeah, I don't think that's the only way to think about this either. It may be that we use a system of delegated authority.

If someone just wants to, if RSS.com has a way of registering a podcast on someone's behalf, just to get started, they may never have to log in until they want to migrate their podcast to somewhere else or something. Yeah. You don't seem excited about that. Well, no, I'm just, I'm still kind of struggling, like what exactly are we solving? I don't think you'll get it until you see the interface, to be honest. And that interface is nowhere near ready to be.

I can vibe code Python, brother, I can get it. You just need to explain it to me in terms I understand. I'm just trying, because we can create a great system, but I feel my contribution is to get people to use it. And I don't quite have the story to say, this is why you need to do this, other than save the podcast index. I'm trying to figure, and all indexes for that matter. I'm trying to come up with the reason.

I like the idea, because I can also see it as a resource, as a big resource, actually, where Joe Rogan example, here's my RSS feed, here's my YouTube, and I could even take it further. Here's my Clips feed. There's lots of different things you can do with this, which I find exciting and exportable, and people can build new products with. But I just can't quite grasp the story of what we're trying to get people to do and why they would do it. Yeah, I see what you mean.

Because again, people don't understand. They see rss.com as a distributor in the way that CD Baby is a distributor. Oh, I just upload it here, and they distribute it to the podcast platforms. That's all they see. They do not understand RSS. The battle is over. We've lost, we can't go back, and the toothpaste is out. So from that vantage point, what am I telling them? Yeah, I guess my point is we're not even 100% certain what we're building yet. Okay, fair. All right, that's fair.

By the way, Hive, in January of 2025, it was 60 cents a token, and currently it is 8 cents a token. So it's down 63% this year. So that doesn't necessarily- There's a lot of inflationary measures in Hive. Like it's a lot of funny money, so I don't really know what that means. It doesn't mean anything other than people may look at that and say, Hive is over. Probably means nothing. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. I can see that. Well, my retirement is that, there goes my retirement.

Oh, my Hive. Oh, it just went up to 9 cents. Woo! Go, get out, get out. To the moon, to the moon. Sell, sell, sell, sell. Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, we don't fully know. We don't fully know what we're building yet, but I think the, it could be that, as far as I can think, it should be, we should start with the hosting companies trying to get them to buy in, and then in a way that is transparent to the user.

Like if we can have some sort, if we have a method where this person's podcast gets verified with them doing nothing, and they just sort of get this thing, this proof, they just receive the benefits. What are the benefits? I don't know. I mean, there's benefits to us. There's benefits to us, but I don't know about, like, they just, I don't know how to, I can't, I don't know what the carrot is yet. Okay. Well, hold on, tell me again why you want it. Why do you want this, Dave?

What do you want it to do for your life? Because. No, no, not because, just what do you want? I want a better quality directory. Okay. And that starts with not, that starts with having, with knowing that a feed is legitimately a podcast, knowing that a feed is authoritative for a particular podcast, and that's a thing we do not have. The user will not care until they have a problem. That's all the emails you get in the podcast inbox. Okay, so here's a crazy thought.

This is something I have a feeling Apple may actually be interested in working with us on. They have the same problem. Yes, they have the human part of it, but not exclusively. I mean, there's no way that there's Apple Connect accounts being created for rss.com auto -submit podcasts. True. So they're also getting slop, especially with RSS. They are, yeah. Yeah, rss.com has a free tier now, so slop is inevitable. So, hello, Ted. Maybe there's something that we can do in tandem with them.

I mean, everybody would benefit, and I see on the back end of this, I see all kinds of new products being able to be built based upon someone actively managing their identity and their feeds. I can see all kinds of great things coming out of that. It's the fun part. No, you're cutting out, Alex. You're cutting out. It's the fight against AI slop. Well, see, that I can sell. Fight against slop. Rock against religion.

The why has, as Nathan said, the why has to be something like, quote, we're building the best podcast search API endpoint for all the podcasts in 2.0 apps. We need to create a reputation metric to get there. Boom. Better search, more relevant search. These are- Discovery, yeah. These, well, that's true. It is, yeah. That is true. Okay. We're building- That's why I said a chart. That's why I said a chart. Okay, all right, chart man. Something about chart.

Building better discovery is very compelling. Just in the, as Dave has a hard out, in the limited time we have, what kind of mechanism can we create to help build better discovery from a better directory? How does a better directory result in better discovery? Because it involves a human doing something. It involves in a, whenever a, where we are in the history of the internet is whenever an actual human does a thing, that's the strongest signal there is now.

It's the community collectively doing it, not just the human. True, yeah, yeah, true. I like it. This I like. I mean, I like it all, but now I feel like I can be a part of it because I felt kind of pushed to the sideline. Oh, sorry, sugar. You'll understand when we build it, Curry. Thanks, Alex. You're building, you're going to build it. You're going to vibe code it. Well, you know, the new Gemini, it can do everything. It's going to run my phone now, I just heard, so.

Yeah, you know Flask, so you can do it. Flask, Flask is the bomb, baby. Yeah, clearly it is. You've made legitimately killer software. Basic auth, but okay, it's Flask. Basic auth, the pop-up, the little username and password. It's so old school, I love it. No one's complained yet. No one said, hey, what's that? It feels official. Like, wow, my browser is asking for something different. It's not just some rando webpage.

You go to what you think is the Godcaster live system and you're like, wait, did I accidentally log into my router? Yeah. Exactly. I think we need to thank some people because I want to get you out on time, Dave. We got exactly 11 minutes. All right. Let me see what came in during the show. Oh, there's Sam with 15,395 sats coming in from true fans. Love the show, drinking red wine and sat in the bath. Let me just get a visual. Let me get a visual.

Hashtag TMI, but don't understand anything from this week or last week's show. I'll leave it to smarter people than me. We currently support Podping and WebSub in and out. Well, actually, Sam, the way I just heard it, which probably this boost predates that, is we can create better discovery for true fans users. If we do this thing right, then true fans will be a big beneficiary of this. Bingo. So this is what I like. Now I'm excited. Roa Swans, three fives from Salty Crayon.

He says, what's on the menu for the Christmas office party, Dave? Drinks. Okay. Alcohol. Martin Lindeskog, 1773 from true fans. How did you commemorate Boston Tea Party on December 16th? Whoops. I guess I forgot. I hope this- That wasn't on my Apple calendar. I hope this Boostergram with 1773 Satoshis will go through. I understand that it's a challenge with plenty of splits that could take some time to go through to the receiver. I am happy that streaming sats is working.

Everything's, you know, it seems like the move, the basic move to LNURL is, I think we're kind of there. It feels like there's been a lot of movement. Do you get that feeling, Dave? Yeah, things have settled down for sure. Yeah, it feels pretty good. I think so. There's Salty Crayon again. Ho, ho, ho, Dave and Adam. Spotify isn't the only slop bucket. Wave Lake hosts 90% AI slop since this became an infection. Fountain is guilty lately of hosting AI slop.

Luckily, we have apps like V4Vmusic.com to help filter this since these applications are not labeling them. In the pipe! Yeah. Whenever you have a monetization scheme, you're gonna get- Yeah, you're gonna get slop. Franco Solario coming in from his very own Castamatic. 1,225. Bonus des Natales Solis Invicti, he says. Did he say, is that the Italian in the middle there for des nuts? Yeah. Hold on a second. Let's put it into Gemini. Let's do a little translate. And let's see what that means.

Do-do-do-do-do. Happy birthday of the unconquered sun. Ooh. Wow. Never heard that- Sun, S-U-N or S-O-N? S-U-N, S-U-N. Oh, I like that. Oh, that's some Italian for sure. And then I hit the delimiter. Commissure blogger. So take it away, Dave. We got a little gift, Christmas gift from the ladies and gentlemen of Buzzsprout of $1 ,000. Hold on a second. I got to grab my, there we go. Shotcaller! 20 inch blade! Only in Paula! Well, ho, ho, ho. Merry Christmas to you, Buzzsprouters.

We are here to make your discovery better. Yes, sir. Yeah, you only have to do slight code implementation. Yes. It will be painless, I promise. Yes. We have, that's our only big one this week. So we got some boosts. We got December 13th here. We got Ugly Cracking Duck. Bruce2222 through Podcast Guru says, AI and bad players are pushing everything and everyone into a digital ID system. We will be marked. 73. Hmm. Hmm. Ominous. Hmm. 5225 from Anonymous. True fan support. Thank you, Anonymous.

Appreciate that. 2222 from Seloss on Linux. Fountain. He says, with that endpoint of new shows, maybe we could do a bird watch type thing. That is what later turned into community notes on X, where it has people write and rate notes, and the notes only show up if people that usually disagree agree that this post needs a note. Wow. That could come from any user reports from apps too, I guess, but then we would need a centralized way of tracking the reports.

That would work for removing shows automatically in an actually reliable way though, just as an idea. Kind of like that. I mean, I actually like the whole community notes idea. I've always kind of dug that. Yeah, community notes is the only good part of Twitter. Yes. Facebook tried, it kind of failed though. It hasn't really worked for them. I wonder why. It's Facebook. Yeah, well, everything fails there. Interesting. Okay. Well, that's an interesting idea. See, oh, Delimiter.

Comic strip blogger. 17333 through Fountain. Howdy, Dave and Adam. In my childhood, I was forced to be religious, but I am agnostic now. Nonetheless. Force, force fed. Nonetheless, I'd like to recommend a podcast called We Get to Do This by Adam and his pal, Jim Pruitt. It's about hearing aids, satisfying their. Yeah, that's part of it. It's about hearing aids, satisfying their wives, social networks and aging. They also talk about a deity called Jesus.

Website is https://rss.com/.podcasts/.we-get-to-do-this/. Just look it up in your podcast app. We get to do this. Oh, that's cool. Thank you, comic strip blogger. Good podcast because authentic. Yo, CSB AI arch wizard. He is the AI arch wizard. He has Lady Vox doing his voiceover for his AI arch wizard show. And I got a Christmas package from her. Really sweet with a beautiful note and with some Alaska sockeye salmon and some like dried fish. And yeah, it was really sweet.

Well, that was really nice. Yeah, very, very sweet. I think she listens to this show too. I think so. Oh. She's with the grumpy old dames. She's with that show. Verifiably not AI. No, no, definitely not AI. Definitely not. Got some monthlies. Derek J. Visker, $21. Paul Saltzman, $22.22. Damon Kasejak, $15. And Timothy Voice, $10. And that's our group. Beautiful. Thank you all very much. You can go to podcastindex.org to support us with some fiat fund coupons.

Just scroll down to the bottom, big red donate button. Or of course you can boost us. We are open and available for boosting. So we won't have another show until after Christmas. Are we going to do the day after Christmas? We're going to do a show? Or are we going to take one day off? I'm good with it. I'm good. No, I'm good. Yeah, I'm good with it. Let's do it. I'm always good, brother. I'm always good. I'll be at work. It'll be a lunchtime show for me, but I'm good with it.

So what are the next steps on this? Are we just going to keep iterating and look at some feedback and come up with some stuff? I'm really excited about the idea of making discoverability better by doing this. That now we have something everybody can get behind. Like, oh, I want to be discovered. I think my next step for this is going to be, I've got some code I'm fooling with right now for this, to make this AI endpoint, excuse me, API endpoint, look better for normal people.

Because I think that'll give it more visibility. So I've got a little bit of code I'm going to finish with that. And then I think my next step on this is to break out a pencil and paper and just try to draw out a concept of how all this stuff links together. And then I'm just going to start posting some feedback in the socials and everything. And maybe we can try to come to some sort of consensus on where to begin. How about you, Alex? What are your next steps?

I'll probably work on the podcasting side and think about how it might look in that end. And we can meet in the middle. Yeah, sounds good. Wow. Well, we have consensus. Who's doing the meeting notes? It's AI, of course. Of course it is. Hey brothers, very, very Merry Christmas to you both. And thank you for all that you've done once again this past year. Merry Christmas, bro. Merry Christmas. Boy, that sounded so demure. Merry Christmas. Hey boys and girls, Merry Christmas.

Have a good one, everybody. We'll be back next week, right after Christmas with more Podcasting 2.0. Podcasts are cool. You have been listening to Podcasting 2.0. Visit podcastindex.org for more information. Go podcasting! Hey, that's pretty gosh darn good.