Podcasting 2.0 for January 10th, 2025, episode 206, Substance Duelist. Hello, everybody. It's nice and cold here in Texas. You are welcome in the boardroom, the official boardroom of Podcasting 2.0. This is where the meeting takes place. This is where you want to be. We discuss all things podcasting, past, present, and future. And of course, we are the only boardroom that doesn't chase the algos or run uninterruptible advertising.
I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country in Alabama, the man who has not one, not two, but three secret projects with me. Say hello to my friend on the other end, the inimitable Dave Jones. What does that word mean? Inimitable? Yeah, I don't know what that means. I don't know. It sounded good though. I thought I'd just throw it out there. Is it a real word or do you make it up? I think it's a real word. I think it's you can't be imitated. Unimitable, I believe. Inimitable?
No, unimitable. Maybe it's not a word. Maybe I made it up. Unimitable. Unimitable. No, it's inimitable. Are you looking it up? Are you looking this word up? Yeah, I'm on the dictionary. Inimitable, so good or unusual as to be impossible to copy. Unimitable. It's a word. I looked up unimitable. No, unimitable with an M. Unimitable is, unimitable is, come on Webster dictionary. Hmm. It says. Oh, it's an alteration. It's an alteration of imitable. Okay. It's the redheaded stepchild of inimitable.
Unimitable. Well, you can't be copied. How about that? That didn't flow as well as unimitable. I like saying these things. I just didn't. The man who can't be copied. I didn't know if it was good or bad, if I should be offended. It's good. No, it's good. It's good. It's all good. It's all good, man. It's all good. How you doing, brother? I'm good. It's a winter wonderland here in Birmingham. What's your temp out there? What you got?
Well, it's 35, but it is a blanket of snow everywhere you can see. Oh, you have snow. We don't have any snow. We have zero snow. We didn't even get ice, but it is a, it's like it was 34, I think this morning. So it was cold. It got down to about 30 last night and it started snowing and like freezing rain around, uh, around two in the morning. And then it just kept on going until about six this morning. We've got about an inch and a half on our, in our backyard. That's not all of it.
Yeah, it's beautiful. Have you gone out and made snow angels? I did not make snow angels, but I did go out and try to, uh, coax the chickens out of the coop. And they were like, no chickens. Like, no, I don't think so. They looked around and they were like, and they just stood there and stared. And then I put them back in. They're like, nope, stupid chickens. Chickens are dumb. They're dumb.
They're actually, that's pretty smart though, because if you go out on a white background, you're, you're just begging for a hawk to snatch you out of there. We're like, no, that's stupid. I love it when they fly up into a tree. I'm always amazed. What are you doing up there? How'd you get there? What's going on? Sometimes they just launch like two feet off the ground to about hip level for no apparent reason. It's just like, just because I can do this. I'm going to do it right now.
Yeah. And they don't even know, they don't even know why they did it. Yeah. The curry, the curry one sounds good. I've got many compliments on it. Yeah. You sound really good on that mic. Oh, thanks. Yeah. I wonder what the difference is between this and the RE320. It's all in the capsule. It's all in the cap. The housing almost doesn't matter in my opinion. Uh, as you can tell, this is much, much smaller than the RE320. Which is appreciated by the way, because the RE320 is a monster.
It's always shows up at TSA is a huge bomb. A bomb or the vibrator. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. These days, when we came back from Holland, um, we had to go through their version of TSA and you know, I've found that if I just, you know, cause my bags often get, you know, secondary screening because, you know, cause I've, I've got two bags. I got one bag, which is a shoulder bag.
It's actually a camera bag and I have headphones and, um, I used to have the RE320 in that one, but now the curry one, I just pop it into my roller bag, which is a very small roller bag, but it has the whole studio in it. And, um, and you know, so I'm always talking these guys up, Hey, how are you doing? You know, just kind of make them feel better. And sometimes they look at me like, why is he doing that? Does he have something explosive in here? Um, and the guy, he looked at the image.
He says, you got a podcast rig in here. Oh, he nailed it. Yeah. I was like, wow. Oh yeah. He's an experienced guy. Yeah. Yeah. So he's like, is that an RE320? Is that the curry one? I've heard so much about it. The curry one. Wow. I can recognize it by the capsule. So what color would you want this to be? Because we're, we're looking at different colors. Dvorak wants a yellow top that you talk into and I'm against that.
Um, you know, this is going to be, this is going to be so far out of my normal thing. I don't think I've ever said that I would want something to be white, but white would look kind of cool. Really? A white top with the whole thing white or just the whole thing? Like that mic that Glenn Beck has. Oh, interesting. Okay. I don't know why. I think it's probably just because everything like black is just the, has been the trend for so long now with stuff.
Everything electronic is going like black cabling, black housing. The white just sort of pops and stands out. Interesting. Alex Gates in the, in the boardroom says Dave sounds good, but I miss his old sound. What was it about the old sound that you, that you liked? I can put my, uh, I can put my toboggan over the mic and make it all muddy like the old sound. Yeah. I wonder, I wonder what it is that he misses. That's interesting.
I listened back to it and I think like everybody was saying it was brighter. I think it has more low end and his sounds brighter. Okay. Okay. What do you think? What did you think? I think it was clearer. It was less, um, you, it was more articulate. Like you could hear my, I think you could hear my mouth more.
Whereas before you only heard sort of the words, maybe it may, I wonder if it's, I wonder if it has to do with the internal pop filtering, because this clearly has less internal pop filters. Yeah, it does. And you know, remember the re three 20, that's basically a kick drum mic. You know, that's what it was built for. So that's why it has all that pop filtering built in and this is engineered to be what we're using it for. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. That is right. It was a kick drum mic.
This one, I have to go sort of off axis because if I don't, it'll pop pretty hard. Yeah. It may not come through to you, but I hear it. Yeah, it's there, but I, I've never, you know, I don't worry about these things. You don't know. I don't, I've got all kinds of pops and clicks and all kinds of stuff. I don't care. I just wanted to, you know, I, I monitor everything I do on in ear buds. That's what says the old sign was better too. Chimp doesn't know what he's talking about. That just good.
That just shows you the difficulty of getting, you know, like sound or whatever. Uh, so Alex says he, he misses the, he says there was more base. Really? I don't think so. Base that you had, that you had more base. I turned off the master compeller. I wonder if that, that doesn't make any difference. I don't think that makes any difference. Cause you, you mix me down on your side. Yeah. Let me see. I mean, I can put a little low end in on, Oh, you, Oh, you'll base me up. I'm basing you up, baby.
Let me see. Give me a little more bottom. I'm giving you a bigger bottom. There you go. Big bottom, big bottom. He's got a big bottom, everybody. There you go. Okay. A little more bottom, a little more, a little more queen, just a tad, just a tad. So, uh, the news, uh, proves that the future is hyper-local. There's no doubt about it. Talking about what Sam posted. Yeah. The global introducing a new nations strategy, dropping local and regional shows in England.
This is, this is how, what an opportunity this is. It's such an opportunity to, to do local stuff. I mean, I have hellofred.fm and it's, it's taken off. People are digging it. The, um, same thing that happened to the same things happened into local radio. Finally that happened to a local newspapers. Yeah. Yeah. And well, go ahead.
I was just gonna say websites, like websites and blogs, uh, that these local newspapers started, uh, to get in on the web, uh, on the internet explosion, those, the websites made the paper in your mailbox seem unnecessary. And then, and then there was this upward consolidation that happened, um, as the ad revenue margins went down because like you've said Facebook before a Facebook, yeah. Infinite inventory.
Yeah. Yeah. So, so that you just had to go, you had, it had to go upstream and like sort of up the triangle to the, to the top. And the same things happening to radio now, cause you have, um, you know, CarPlay, Android auto and basically, basically mobile in the car is making the car stereo seem unnecessary. And now we see the scene, we see radio consolidating upwards, you know, until it's going to hit that last layer, which is the national sort of parent.
And that's where the advertisers are going to do all their buying because that's, that's all they, because that's the last locus of control for some sort of ad inventory limit. Yeah. You know? Yeah. It's, um, it's interesting because what I understand cause you know, global also has, uh, they, they have the podcast, uh, division and the podcast division seems to be doing well. I think they have, uh, what's the, uh, the news agents, which I like a lot. I think news agents is a good news show.
Yeah. They do have that. Don't they? I was thinking that was a cast, but I think you're right. It isn't. Yeah. And they bought, uh, captivate, I believe. So, but this, this is exactly the same thing that happened to I heart. It's going to happen to serious. It's going to happen to all these companies and, you know, and, and now, especially with tune in crapping the bed, um, which is in my car has a, has a tune in app, which is, which is nice.
I, I, I find that a very nice experience, but I don't really need it. You know, as far as I can tell, car, car manufacturers have pretty much given up on creating an awesome entertainment system because people just bring their own. It's customized the way they want. It's what they use when they're out of the car. Why would you use anything else? Just make, just make the in-car experience, you know, flow through CarPlay or Android auto. And I think there's room there for something else too.
I don't, I think we may have mentioned this in the past, but we, there was a company that like within the first six months of the index existing, a company contacted us. I remember this and they did in-car entertainment systems, um, for, um, for Mercedes BMW, I think they would high-end stuff. Yeah. And they just went away. Yeah. They, we, I did, I honestly, I did tons of work.
I know, I know I side to, to get the index to work for them in a way that would basically the index was going to power podcasting in their car entertainment systems, power, power, power. Yep. And they just, they kept linger sort of lingering around. They would pop up every couple of months and ask another question. And then at some point after about a year, they just vanished. And I guess they just gave up and said, well, we'll just do Android auto. I think so.
And, um, and the same with tune in and we talked to the C wasn't that the CEO was the new CEO of tune in at the time. Not, not whoever's running it now. It was so he was up in the C-suite. I think he was, he was maybe COO or that guy had come from a radio public radio Republic. I can't remember now. He had come from some, from some startup that got bought and he got it. And then he went over to tune in and was heading their podcast strategy. And he lasted like six months and bailed.
Yeah. Well, he didn't understand the whole concept. He's like, well, you know, first of all, we had to get business insurance, which we did. Um, and then he was like, well, you know, how do we know we have permission from all these podcasts? Like, ah, really? We're going to go down that road with you. Uh-huh. And I finally just told him, you know, like, Hey, dude, just, just download the index off our website. We're not doing any more terms of service. We're not doing this.
Like, Oh, they wanted to hold terms of service. You're right. I forgot about that. Yeah. They wanted us to add specific indemnifications for them. I'm like, nah, man, I'm not doing this. Stop. You can just like, I don't care. Like you, the more, if you use this, it's just going to make our, you're not going to pay us anything. So if you, you, if you use our directory, all it's going to do is increase our costs and we get nothing. So I don't really care. Exactly. Exactly.
Uh, like it was, it's like, so just either use it or don't at some point. And then, and then like, he, I don't remember his name, uh, but he gave an air of being frustrated the entire time we talked to him. Yeah, he did. He did. Like he was having to go through five layers of bureaucracy every time he, you know, opened his laptop, all this to say that. Um, so I've, I've been running hellofred.fm for gosh, what is it now? Three, four months now? Uh, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a while.
And you know, the, the concept is so simple. Like you have a local, a local station. Now in this case, I play a Christian contemporary Christian music and I pay ASCAP BMI for it. That's the only thing you can do is live streaming. You can actually buy a license for that. And it goes by listening hours, which if it, if I had 10,000 people listening, it would be very expensive. Uh, but it goes, what is it now? How much is it now?
It's so you do it through live three 65 and you know, so you buy basically live three 65 has a standard package and it has a simple scheduling system. It does some cross fading between songs and you can tag things as a station ID or, um, I think really station ID and maybe some promos. You can't, you can't set up your own categories and, and it does, it does a decent play out, but when you have a really long outro, you know, nothing pops in quick. So it's, it's just not, it's not that great.
And then if you want to play licensed music, then you have to buy the license. And I think it's, you get 1500 listening hours for $65 a month. And that, that goes, they, they take care of all that. And it's ASCAP, BMI, PRI, uh, I think Buma Stemra in the Netherlands. They have a number of, a lot of countries that would be in it.
It's all kind of built into one, but then, you know, the next package is so, and I actually went over the 1500 and then, oh, but if you, if you allow them to insert ads, then it's like 35 bucks. Okay. So what, what is it? What was it initially? Did you say like 75? I think it's 75 without ads. Yeah. And now, and now I'm up to 130 because I needed 3,500 listening hours. But are the list, are they quote listening hours? Are they just as unverifiable as like podcast downloads?
No, because you know, they, they, they see the streams, right? So they count the streams and how many minutes the stream has been running. And in theory, they're taking my metadata and attributing that on the back end with some logging in theory. I don't know if they really are. Uh, I don't think ASCAP, BMI cares either. They just want the money and they'll just divvy it. They give it to Taylor Swift anyway. It's the way I see it. It's Taylor cash.
Yeah. Um, and, uh, but anyway, the point is I run promos for podcasts and all those podcasts are highlighted on hellofred.fm and you can literally see people hearing a promo. Cause I can, in the stats, I can see when the, I know when the promo ran, I can see, Oh, and then this same person, the same listener went over and started looking at that podcast and interacting with, uh, with the episodes and then grabbing an episode and playing it.
And so we have, and so God, this is all Godcaster and we have a customer in Houston, really big station, a big, big faith based station. And they get it, man. They're like, Oh, we want multiple live streams. I mean, they're not even thinking about their broadcasting. They could be off the air and the engineers wouldn't even know it, but they're so excited. And you know, they've got local people, uh, podcasts being created locally. And you know, this is really a way forward.
Now that's for Houston, Fredericksburg, we only have 19,000 people or I'm sorry, 12,000 people. So it's not that big. Um, but people are hungry for it. They're hungry. They want to hear the mayor being interviewed. They want to hear, um, the guy running ACE hardware, you know, they want to hear these things. It's really amazing. And I, there's no support, there's no support mechanism. I haven't, you know, there's no, I mean, it will be all value for value ultimately.
Um, but there's, I know, I know just like we see with Boostergram Ball live and with the V4V music shows, I know that people will come out and support, you know, gone are the days of, of being a multimillionaire from your program, but will you be supported? You bet you will. You bet you will. It'll be enough. And it's, it's simple. I didn't get enough value for you. I got to stop playing my, stop making records. You gave me enough support. I'm making another record. It's that simple. It works.
Dude, we're in our 18th year of no agenda. And people always say, Oh, you're begging for money. You sad puppy on the newsletter. Yeah. Well, we're telling you the truth. Well, I mean, your, your, your local NPR station begs for money too. And nobody gives them a hard time about it, but they actually beg for it. They literally beg for it. We're just saying, Hey, thank you for your 50 bucks, John or whoever it is. He, you know, here's your message. You thanks for sending this note.
That's all it is. It's so, it's so obvious. Maybe, maybe people just don't, maybe people don't understand, uh, what hyperlocal, I think some of these words get thrown around a lot and would they kind of lose their meaning, but hyperlocal, like I heard, uh, Kara, the Kara Swisher thing where she was talking about buying Washington post. I think she, I know it's ridiculous. I think, I think that she threw in that word, uh, about in that discussion with Scott Galloway.
And I'm like, you don't, I don't think you really understand what that means. I mean, hyperlocal, I don't understand. I don't think people get how, what the hyper part means. It means really, really tiny. Yeah. Small. Yeah. It's like your block or your neighborhood. Yeah. It's very small. And I mean, if you're, if you're, um, if your little town can support a nice hardware, well, it can support your local podcast. Yes. Oh, absolutely.
You know, there's, there's lots of, I promise you there's lots of accountants and lawyers and small business owners that are making just a fine living in small and very small and they're, they're hyperlocal businesses. Now, why can't a podcast be that? It can. And I'll also say that with hyperlocal, I will also group hyperlocal as a locality of interest. So a band can also be hyperlocal for me. So it doesn't always have to be geography. Geography is great for podcasting.
It's, it's less great for music, but even that is possible. I don't know. It's just, it feels, all I know is the hole is big. The gaping hole. The preacher at your local church, that is a hyperlocal value for value supported salary. And a content factory. Yeah. These are, this is not, I mean, that, that's, that's purely a donation based system, you know? And, and that's that's the way that thing works. It can work. It for sure can work.
I mean, God, the, I think the, the model that we're trying to build with Godcaster it's push back against that dropping of local by radio, like by adding the live item to every, to everybody's station and, and a feed and a podcast feed it's the station itself survives the transition to digital and remains a local programming source. It's even hyperlocal.
Yeah. And the thing about that, cause I've been thinking about this and when, when Sam posted that article, I was like, so, you know, what we're trying to do is, is, is use these 2.0 technologies like live item to help these stations survive. And then it feeds into the bigger podcast ecosystem because there's got to be a way, a way for people to listen to the live items like true fans and podcast, podcast addict and podcast guru and podverse.
And there's, there has to be a way for that stuff to be accessible because there needs to be, like you always call it a tuner. And like, and it got me on, it got me thinking that, you know, I really want, I don't ever really do this, but I can't help it. This one instance, I think I really want Apple on board with the live item tag to the point where I think I may send Ted an email. I don't expect a reply. They don't work. That would be, that would be a game changer. Yeah. That's for them.
I think so. Do you remember, they used to have FM tuners in the iPhone. Do you know that my flip phone still has an FM radio in it? Does it? Yeah. But you have to connect the wired headset to it for the antenna. Otherwise it doesn't work, which is like, how dumb is that? No, that doesn't work at all. I'm not using a wired headphone. I think that's what, I think that's the way the iPhone FM tuner used to work. You had to have the headphones plugged in. Yep. Yep, exactly.
Which is probably why, yeah, it's probably why they did away with it. The entrance of Bluetooth made that antenna connection obsolete. Oh yeah. Yeah. Cause you, they dropped the FM tuner out of the iPhone with, I think the iPhone six. Yeah. And, um, but that's something it's like, they used to have tuners in the phones and that's something like, it's clearly something Apple believed in. They believed in radio and they could believe they could believe in it again. Yes. Believe. Just believe.
You're old enough to remember. Um, I don't think I actually had one, but kids who were older than me, we used to have our boom box and you'd have it on your shoulder and you'd be playing your favorite radio station on the beach, walking down the street and you'd have the boom box, you know, blasting your favorite radio station and you'd have record, play and pause pressed all at the same time for when your favorite song came on, pop, you could record the song. That's right.
It's, it's, uh, and you'd have to stop and flip the tape every now and then. Um, but yeah, the live item in, uh, in the Apple podcast app would be phenomenal. It was just be, and what would it really take them to do it? I mean, it's not a, not a huge implementation, but it would kickstart something amazing. That's what I was thinking is that it's not that big. It's not, I just want to, like I said, that's this, it's not the way they work to respond to emails and say, hey, this is a good idea.
We're going to work on it. That's just not what they do. They don't even respond to customers who have spent thousands of dollars on their products. I know. I know. Here's a help. Here's a knowledge-based note. Go look at that. If you're lucky. Yeah. Um, but that, they don't do it that way and that's fine. But I do want to at least broach the topic because I feel like it's not really about, um, it's not really about Apple themselves.
I don't, it's for me, it's about the, um, I think it's a, it's a, it's odd that they don't do it. Like it's such a natural fit for them and their sort of, uh, you know, I don't know, milieu or, or, or ethos that, that if I see it very similar to transcripts, it's an obvious ad for them. And, uh, because they, they already support, um, they already support like, so here's the way it could go.
Like whenever the Apple, an Apple event keynote happens, there could just be an Apple feed in the podcast app and you get to watch it live. How about this right there in the podcast? How about this? They become the new tune in. There's not a single radio station on the planet that does not have a live stream. Not a single one. Every single radio station has a live stream. We have the, we have everything all fleshed out. We got, we, it's, it's all sussed out. It's been working for a long time.
There are many podcasts that use it. Um, and they would have such a competitive edge. I think Spotify would have a hard time even getting, catching up with them. I'm not, I'm not sure why I'm saying that, but it feels like they don't have the, they, yeah, it just feels like they're focused on so many other things. It would just be very competitive and it'd be great. And they could become the de facto for in-car radio listening.
They could do all kinds of cool things with, um, with their, with their existing index. Of course, you know, they're happy to use ours. Uh, Hey guys, save yourself some money, use ours.
Well then, you know, and, and if they want to, you know, if they, if they wanted to enhance the spec and say, Hey, this, we would do it, but it needs to be, uh, we're only going to support it if it's like HLS or, you know, an MP3 stream or whatever, because the spec is very loose, you know, it can, it can adapt to whatever there is. And they would say, okay, yeah, that's all that. All that makes sense.
You know, you can just basically do whatever you want within the bounds of the spec and we make the spec work for them. And they, you know, I just think that it would be a humongous win right now at this point in time. Bingo. Because we, we, for like for the, for the Godcaster follow button, we give a whole, we list a bunch of podcasting 2.0 apps. Yeah. Is we list all the 2.0 apps that are supported. Yeah. Uh-huh.
That, and, and we, we include one that doesn't, which is Apple, just because it's such a big app and everybody's going to ask. And you just have to know that it's not going to support all the features, but you just have to add it because everybody's going to say, where is it? Yeah. But if it did support the features, that would be awesome. And I should add that every single radio station has their own native app. And most of them use some app, you know, a handful of app companies that do this.
They all have their live stream in there. So what are people going to use? Yeah. It's up to them. And it's just a simple tag too. Maybe they're all busy. Maybe they're all busy making Siri work properly. I don't know. Or not work. Or not work. Yeah. Or not work at all. Yeah. Well, by the way, I've got, uh, I've, I've, I've got some, uh, some clips from Sir Libre's, uh, feeding of the troll room into notebook LM. Is that because I, I, you know, I never listened to your clips.
You sent me some clips and it says N A I R C clip one, two, and three. I'm like, I want, Oh wow. The volume's real low on this. Who did this? Libre did it? Yeah. Can you juice it? Yeah. Come on. I'm the pod father, man. I can juice that stuff. It's already done. What are you talking about? So it takes me just a few seconds to juice it. So what, so what is it? Are we going to play this now? Uh, yeah, it's the note. So, uh, Cola Mona, uh, Sir Libre, he put, he, he took like, I don't know, months.
No, wait a minute. Is Sir Libre. Is he also, is he Sir Spencer in disguise? No, no, it's not. It's a different guy. Okay. I have no idea. I'm so confused by, uh, by all the different, wow. This last clip is really, he's a lot of juicing. Oh, you just give it double juice. No, I'm, I'm up to time. I'm, I'm up to seven. Uh, let me see what it's seven juice metrics, seven juice units. I'm, I'm amplifying seven DBs. Oh, golly. Yeah. So note notebook. Uh, I, you see, I usually juice them.
I pre juice them before I give them to you. You did not, you did not give me pre juice stuff, man. It's like, I got to bring my own juice to the party. Nice. I was snow blind from the Birmingham snow. All right. So, uh, set it up and I'll, I'll get into it. Well, this is like months, I think months of the troll room chat. Oh, he took the whole troll room chat and put it into notebook LM. Yeah. I think it's like, let me, let me find, I think it's like months of troll room chat.
Are we going to dive into it with these, with these Jim Oakes, these phonies? Let me see. Uh, let me see exactly real quick though. First, how many I can find how many months of this he did. Cause it was like, I want to say like six months of troll room, which is way too much. Wow. Troll room. Uh, can I find this? Uh, I don't know. Let's dive in and I'll find it. Let's dive in. I'm very excited to hear what they make of this. All right.
Buckle up because today we're going deep diving into some serious podcast. Wow. Right off the top. Buckle up deep dive. Oh man. They got to change the model on this thing. We're talking about the chat logs from the no agenda show. You know, the one with Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak. Yeah. The IRC channel. That's old school. Right. During one of their live recordings. So we're going to see what the fans were saying as the show was happening live. Hold on a second.
A not fans B maybe producer C trolls. It's fascinating. Really? It's like a window into how these dedicated fans engage with the show in real time. And you know, those no agenda episodes are long, like three hours every Thursday and Sunday. Yeah. So that chat is going for a long time. So they build this whole little world in their little world.
And they're constantly reacting, you know, to what Adam and John are talking about, building their own inside jokes and even trying to influence where the show goes next. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. They're not just passive listeners. They're like active participants. Exactly. And remember, no agenda is ad free. It runs on that value for value model. So the fans are directly supporting the show.
Yeah. Which makes the chat even more interesting because it's this direct line of communication between the fans and the creators. Hold on a second. I wonder, did Libra put that, did he put in there the value for value or did they glean that from the IRC logs? Did he have a setup? I mean, if they got all that from the log, I'm very impressed. Here's what he said. He says to 24,950 lines of IRC chat from hash no agenda IRC channel, December 28th to January 9th.
OK, so it was only like a couple of weeks fed into notebook. LM is interesting how much they get right and how much they totally get wrong. He only mentions that he fed in the IRC chat. He doesn't mention anything else. OK, let's go to clip two. But this reads like, but it sounds though, like it sounds like a native ad for no agenda is what, you know, remember they're doing that value for value model. They don't take ads. I know, I know. Every Thursday and Sunday.
That's right, except they didn't catch it. We call them trolls. We have a troll count, you know, so OK, let's go. So let's start with Doug. Doug. The bot. He's like the heart and soul of this chat, keeping things organized and throwing in some witty comments along the way. Doug's a busy guy. He announces when the show's live with a pod ping bat signal detected, keeps track of everyone's karma points, even cracks a few jokes now and then. I love that.
It's like he's a character in the chat himself. He is. And speaking of karma points, it's amazing to see the hierarchy in there. Oh, yeah. You've got J.C.D. with like 18000 points. Clearly a veteran of the no agenda community. Right. Like a king of the chat room. And then you got others like a birdie. Jerry, you had 1666 Matthew Dunage with fifty four forty one even titties clocking in at 40 points. Forty. Wow. You say it's a diverse crowd. Not quite understanding the karma points.
You know, when when we first started, no agenda stream, I was running the stream and I ran it from my house. I think it was I was in Los Angeles at the time. And so I had a 24 hour streamer and it was not very sophisticated. We're talking 2008, 2009, something like that. Maybe it's maybe I remember that. And I would have Doug and Doug was an early voice synthesis system. And Doug would do time and weather and Doug would read like a headline or something. I had all kinds of scripts set up.
It was kind of remember. I remember that because Doug was you could like. Hi, this is. Yeah. And he would come on the stream, you know, and announce the next podcast. Yes, yes, yes. Oh, good time. I remember when that was running out of your head because you were in the that was I was in the Hollywood Hills now on fire. But didn't didn't it wasn't it still that way when you were in the garage? Yes. Yes. You're right. In the garage. Man, you remember that stuff. Yeah, man, I was there, bro.
That's amazing. They've got all these running gags and inside jokes. It's really creative and quick witted. Like what? Give me an example. Well, they kept talking about gigawatt coffee, gigawatt coffee. Yeah. I think it's a reference to Adam Curry's high energy personality. And then there's artificial curry, which is a playful jab at AI. That's hilarious. And these running gags just evolve organically. They become part of the chat's unique vocabulary.
I love that it's like they've created their own language. They have. And it's constantly changing and adapting as the show goes on. I also noticed a lot of a kind of plus plus sprinkled throughout the chat. What's that all about? Ah, that's their way of giving someone karma points like a mini upvote system. So if someone makes a funny comment or a sharp observation. Yeah, you just hit them with the plus plus. It's a way to acknowledge each other's contributions.
It's like their own social currency within this chat. Exactly. And everyone's playing the game trying to earn those points and climb the ranks. It's fascinating. This no agenda chat is more than just a bunch of people typing at each other. It's a complex ecosystem with its own rules, language and social dynamics. Wow. I just had an idea. It's a did you ever have you ever thought of the troll room as a complex ecosystem with its own rules? Totally, totally. That's how I think of it all the time.
Cotton gin. Think about if you did a plus plus, you could send a zap to somebody. I thought the same thing. What a great idea. Yes. Plus plus means means like a a boost. Well, you know, I have to say. Ever since I got the primal app, which has a wallet built into it, and I think they have a business account or some business relationship with strike, I could be wrong on that. But they have a wallet, which is clearly some custodial thing, I guess. Maybe not. I don't know. Maybe I don't know.
I have no idea. But the primal app for Nostra is there's a couple of things I would like differently, but is a good app. And I'm not all that interested in most of the content. But when I flow something through fountain. And and it shows up in Nostra and people start to comment there. It's kind of an exciting experience. It's a very small community because I can I can just say something like, hey, I'm having a problem with my lightning node and, you know, boom, boom, boom.
We got a lot of comments. I don't think I'm being followed by that many people. But it's just it's relatively what is it, maybe 40,000 active people, maybe. I don't know. But as I look more into. What's capable, what you can do outside of the social network, how you can flow content through the Nostra protocol, I guess, or whatever you want to call it.
I see a lot of opportunities and I've been desperately trying to follow along with what Stephen B is doing because he he in essence, this split box that he's creating and I think he's gotten a little sidetracked, but I'm obviously OK. I'm just trying to follow along. So he is now making zaps splittable through the split box.
Right. And so I can't help but think that there is a natural fit between podcast feeds, podcasting 2.0 feeds and the Nostra protocol, not necessarily the Nostra network itself. I'm just seeing, by the way, how how funny is it that Dare Gigi came up with the how was it the prism splits or whatever he came up with must must be two years ago now. Not a single person has done any development. No, that has to come from our group. Just saying.
And it's almost like, well, if there's this group of tens of thousands of people and they clearly know how to onboard and there's app development going on. Why wouldn't we incorporate zaps into our existing system? Because it's no different from a boost at this point. If you can hit a button, type something. Well, actually, I don't think there's any message. There's no there's no concept of a booster gram in Nostra.
But it's it's I mean, I I've got like 80,000 sats just from being on this thing for a month. And that's just people zapping me. Now, if I could split those. I mean, I just see opportunities. I mean, a zap is just an LNURLP. Exactly. I mean, we already do. I mean, I know. But, you know, right now, if I look at the stats of what we see on the index, which is definitely not everything, it's ninety nine percent fountain. Everything else with Albi apocalypse has kind of fallen off the radar.
And I'd love I mean, it's going to take time to get that back. I mean, like because if Primal is just a strike, Chad says Primal is just using strike black strike black wallet. I mean, if what is that? Can anybody use the strike black wallet? Well, I think I think that's just the white labeled strike. But as well, I think that's what I don't think I didn't have any KYC when I said, give me a Primal wallet. Just saying. So I don't know how that works.
It just feels like there's wallets and stuff out there in Nosterland that is just begging to be incorporated into our stuff. If you know, if if it all works, I don't care what you call it. But just see, that's that's at the app. That's at the application layer, though. And, you know, that's that's just at the application layer. I don't think that that's if if podcasting 2.0 app developers individually want to do that, you know, that's that's their prerogative.
And I'm you know, I'll support them and whatever they want to do. But, you know, but I don't I don't think that it really requires any special podcasting 2.0 protocol level things. I think all that stuff's already done, you know, because I mean, this is all application layer stuff. If they the the. I guess what I'm saying, try this on for size. I'm saying, what if you can choose in your app? Well, I just I have zaps all set up. Just make the boost button work with that.
Doesn't that take away all these other issues of integrating a wallet and doing all that stuff? Is it just isn't it just the LN URL pay link click and it just works? Or am I mistaking that? Describe that again. I'm not sure I'm following. So. I have the primal app, but then I also have the primal dot net web login and I log in and then I can use the same wallet for zapping people that I use on the mobile. So I don't have a wallet sitting here in my in my desktop computer.
So it's making these links to somewhere. So if those if those links work like that, why wouldn't if we have the split box capability, why wouldn't I just surface a zap button in a podcast app as an alternate or turn the boost button into a zap button? I don't care. And I'm saying and I'm saying I think I'm saying I think you can do that because that doesn't really. So Nostra is two things. Nostra is an authentication protocol and it's an authentication and message signing protocol.
And then it's a WebSocket protocol, a JSON based WebSocket protocol. And they really can be independent of one another. Like if you if somebody wanted like if I generate a not a quote unquote Nostra identity, which is just a which is just a key pair. I mean, it's not, you know, they do they have a little bit of their own flavor to it to get the right to get sort of prepackaged outputs, the in pub and the insect and whatever. That's fine.
But if I want to use that key pair facility or protocol to generate an identity that that is Nostra compatible, but also a standalone thing, it's a key pair. It's just math. If I want to use that and then send an LNURLP payment and attach that identity to it, that's fine. You know, that's fine. The problem with the problem with Nostra from a podcast, from an app developer's perspective, has always been not the authentication part, but the message signing part.
Identity part, but the WebSocket protocol part. Sockets are hard. I'm going to tell Tina that tonight, baby, just so you know, sockets are hard. Give me a break. Most app developers, modern app developers, are used to HTTP calls. They're used to REST based HTTP protocols where they're communicating with a backend. Socket programming, we call it WebSockets, but it's still a socket.
And it has all the same difficulties as programming with a TCP socket, you know, or a named pipe or something like this. These are at their core, not really that much different than a Unix socket on a local level. And that requires a lot of layers of management within your code. Because now, all of a sudden, you're talking about race conditions. You're talking about... Oh no, not the dreaded race condition. Yeah, race conditions, mutexes, semaphore handling.
There's a lot that happens when you have a, what is essentially an unmanaged open connection between two endpoints, that you are pushing and pulling packets back and forth. And so that's the difficulty with a protocol like Noster. It's something that most mobile app developers are just not going to get it. I don't mean from an intelligence standpoint. I mean, they're just not going to invest the time to do that.
But I don't think it's necessary to implement the Noster protocol in order to do the thing that you're talking about. Okay. Well, I guess what I'm saying is I see a community of users, call them people, who understand the basic value for value moniker. And I see that they have tools that enable them to do it. And I want to find out how can we get those people, and maybe what Stephen B is doing is a podcast pops up on Noster, whether it's a page, a library, a social network, I don't care.
The social network part is the least interesting to me. It's the fact that there's a value for value exchange mechanism, which works and is understood by both users and developers. And somehow we're not connecting those dots. I'm not sure how to explain it any differently. You're saying that, if I understand you correctly, are you saying that you want to tap into the Noster world's zappers to bring them into the, to be able to send value into podcasting 2.0 apps? Yes. That's what I'm saying.
Thank you. Okay. Okay. I mean, I just, I think that's, I think that's very, I think that's very doable. The only thing I would caution against though, is, I really, we've, we've talked about this. I feel like many times the, the somehow merging of some sort of Noster thing with RSS, please don't. Like, it's just not, it's, it's ultimately going to fail and just be a big mess. Like, I don't, at the application level, this stuff needs to really stay separated so that you have, okay.
Like, there's nothing stopping, there's nothing, okay. So there's nothing stopping somebody like, let's say, let me think of an example. Let's, let's say, Castamatic. There's nothing stopping Franco from saying, okay, when you, when you, when you fire up a, when you fire up your, your Castamatic app, it's going to ask for your Noster, if you, do you have a Noster ID? Right. And you say, yes. All it's going to do is just store that, store that NPUB. It's going to store your, your identity.
And somewhere that, that NPUB knows where my wallet is, correct? Or is that incorrect? Well, the, it's in the metadata for the, for the identity. Okay. So it could store, it could store your identity, it could store your identity, basically make one call to, you know, a hundred relays or whatever, all the ones it knows about, pull down your identity. And then it never really has to communicate with the Noster world again. Okay. No, that's fine. That's fine.
Like basically it's just, it's just checking, does this person have a wallet that exists somewhere on a Noster relay? Yes. I think that's what I'm, what I'm talking about. Okay. Well then, and then, and then it's not, you know, it could do stuff on that network later, but it doesn't have to that. And, and that's, I think what I'm saying is like, it could be done.
And I'd really, I think that, that is the way you basically, you, you make, you grab an identity just just like you could grab an identity from whatever, I mean, Twitter through OAuth or anything like you make this one call, get the identity and get the information you need. And then you can, you know, store that and begin to now, now you're, now you're back in RSS world and you can make, you can send payments and do these things that you want to do.
Okay. So, so the next thing that flows into this. Because let me, let me just say one more thing because, because Castamatic, the idea of, of Franco maintaining an open web socket connection, it's not happening. I understood, understood. Yeah. And I, and I, and I'm, I'm with you on that. Okay. I'm just trying to make connections. And then the next thing is, is do you know if Fountain is already honoring LNURL splits? Because until they do, nothing's going to happen. Who? Fountain?
Yeah. Because I, there's no evidence, there's no evidence it's working because I have LNURL splits in, in, in this feed and people are boosting from Fountain, but that split is not getting anything. Well, the test, the test that, that Oscar created was the Fountain radio feed and that works, right? I mean, we tested that. Right. Well, it doesn't work currently with boosts and I think it has to. I don't know. I don't know the answer to them.
Yeah. I think Fountain has to take the lead on this and, and make that work so we can figure out what, what doesn't work and what does work and troubleshoot, et cetera. Because I have, you know, I have my Adam Curry at strike.me address in a split and I'm not getting anything. Eric PP, he's, he says you need something in Nostra to zap. You can't just zap an RSS feed, but, but that's not what I'm talking about, Eric. That's not what I'm talking about either.
No. Yeah. What I, Eric, what I'm saying is in, is that if, if Adam is talking about allowing people, allowing people to bring a Nostra wallet sort of connection, like I have a Nostra identity that has a wallet in it and I over in primal and I want to go over here and do this, do this thing on this podcast app, I could just bring the identity with me. And since it's LNURLP, I should be able to do to, to make that work. Exactly. That's what I'm talking about.
Unless, unless primal, and this could be the case, unless primal is doing something proprietary. Could be. It's very possible. I have no idea. Yeah. But if they're just using Strikes API, well then, you know, podcast apps should be able to do that too. I'll throw a wrench into the, into the machine. Did you follow this? Did you follow this rumble announcement that they got a $775 million investment from Tether? No, that's an odd. How much? $775 million. And. That's a lot of money.
I can't help but think just having followed ever since Trump announced the strategic Bitcoin reserve and Senator Loomis is, you know, that bill is being introduced and I think that will happen. And let's not get all jihadist about it. Just, I'm talking to the boardroom. Let's just talk about reality and what's happening.
It is very possible that the United States will create currency by allowing companies such as Tether, which will be run through Canterfix Gerald, I think, you know, there's going to be a lot of stable coins and Trump, even Trump, Trump is a meta guy. People don't realize this. When he said, I like the Bitcoin and the stable coins, he sees the capability, because, you know, Tether is backed by Bitcoin. It's backed by treasuries. Are they like one of the top three holders?
Yeah, I think they're the biggest holder of T-bills. So the concept is to give the U .S. dollar, to maintain the U.S. dollar's dominance. You allow a lot of stable coin and I think it'll be Tether, could be USDC. I don't know. I don't know too much about that world, but you allow them to create stable coins on top of, you know, to mint stable coins on top of the T-bills, which gives the United States an enormous advantage by selling debt, which is immediately monetized in U
.S. dollar denominated tokens. And already, I mean, you think Russia's cut off from SWIFT? You think it makes a difference? No, people are sending stable coin back and forth. And the way stable coins work, you can send them on the Bitcoin blockchain. You can send them on Tether, on Ether. You can send them through a whole bunch of different blockchains. And I presume that with the changes that were made to Lightning, they will also run through the Lightning network.
So what I'm saying here is that would be very interesting and something to just keep tracking if the U.S. starts to make, because, you know, everybody wants dollars. Every country wants dollars. And if they can get these dollars easily and simply by getting them through blockchain and so the U.S. dollar through stable coins, you know, maintains its dominance as it's pegged as the world currency.
Basically with, I think in an odd way, with Bitcoin being the settlement layer, that's something we need to track because if people start to, and I think there's been a lot of talk that Strike even uses stable coins to send stuff back and forth. I don't know the details of it, but it's something to track that we may or may not. I mean, I can already hear the purists saying, oh no, that's no good. That's a shit coin. But my mission in life is to make sure that people can get value for value.
And it may be something we need to be tracking to look at of stable coin. And it can, I think it can run over the Lightning network. So the things that we're doing are important for the future, but we have to be open. I think we should be open to looking at all the different flavors of that value transfer that are coming down the pipe. What, what are the T-bill, what kinds of T-bills are they holding? Are they like three to five year? I think very short term, very short term, I think.
Yeah. Very short term. So like three months, something like that? Yes. Three months. Yeah. This, this might be, uh, this sort of feels like we're on the verge of like, um, what we'd call it Bretton woods three. There's always been talk of that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. There's something fun. The fact that a, the fact that a, that a crypto currency company can become the number one holder of treasury bonds of treasury bills. That is weird.
Would nobody tell me you saw that coming five years ago? No, no, did not see it at all, but it makes total sense because if, if we are, I think it's twofold. I truly believe if the United States were to turn all those stupid AI debt data centers into Bitcoin mining centers, which will, I, I have the theory that will eventually happen.
Um, backing your stable coin, your us dollar denominated stable coin on that and a short term us debt keeps the United States as the King of the world without having to continuously go blow people's countries up for oil and other things. Cause all that, all that is, that's no longer an advantage. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. So a non-war, a non, Hey, a non-war backed currency. Sign me up. Yeah. I mean, I really care. I'm with you.
I kind of don't care what it's, what it is, you know, with you on that. So it's just something to keep, keep an eye on. Um, uh, I'm, I'm not sure where it's going, but I can feel it. I can just feel like something's going on. That's, that's, yeah, that's, that's interesting. Cause we, we, we don't really know, I'm like you, I think, I think there was the big, the strategic reserve thing. I think that will happen. Um, and, and if it does, that tells you, I mean, those things don't just happen.
They don't just happen. They have, um, it will, you know, this is actually, this is funny. Cause I'm, I'm doing this thing that I thought of like, when I was listening to the, to the Sir Libra's like clips about the troll room, uh, that, that, um, fake podcast. Um, you know, I had posted something earlier in the week that the world is not prepared for LLM powered fishing emails. It's not, it's not, it's not. Here's how, here's how this, and I'll, I'll promise I'll tie this in here.
Here's how this will go at some point in the future. Um, you're going to have how, how it works now, the most insidious of phishing scams. Um, and this would be, these would be like a business email compromise scams or somebody's office three 65 credentials get compromised. The hacker logs into their mailbox, takes over their, their office, their, uh, uh, hosted exchange mailbox, start sending out emails to their people in their contacts list gleaning.
Uh, they, they look back through their email history and so then they insert themselves into a prior conversation so that it is very hard to detect that this is a new actor who's just entered the mix and is now, you know, it's, you're not talking to the real person anymore because it's coming from their mailbox. All the stuff checks out and they're using, they're replying to threads that previously exist on your side and their side. Very difficult.
The only thing that gives it away is a lot of times they don't, they don't talk the same and they use sort of giveaways. This, the LLMs could go in there and just make a, build a quick local model of everything in that person's mailbox, every sent item that person has ever sent so that it's speaking exactly like this person would speak. And that is something no scam, no scanning filter, no, no fishing filter, no heuristics are going to catch it.
No, unless you have an AI on the other side, which is going to have to sort through it and confine the, uh, the anomalies. Oh yeah. I mean, it's going to get, it's going to be bad and also it's going to be bad, but also people fall for the dumbest things. It's pig butchering people, you know, and it's not just men. I've learned a lot of women fall for these things, particularly middle-aged older women who think they found a new friend and they fall in love.
And, you know, it's always the, the sex organs that, uh, that make the blood drain from the brain. I'll send you money. I'll help you out. Sure. No problem. There's this, uh, guy, there's this guy named, uh, Ian McGilchrist. Have you heard of him? I don't think so. He wrote a book. He's written a few books. He's, uh, I think he's, I think he's made, he's out of the UK. I'm not sure what university he's maybe Oxford.
I don't know, but he, he wrote a book, he wrote sort of, he wrote a very scholarly work and then he wrote sort of a, um, a more accessible book. Um, the, the, the scholarly work, it's like two volumes. I don't remember the name of it, but then the sort of condensed, more accessible version of that work, um, is called the master and his emissary. And it's about the mind, the human mind and the brain. And this guy is a, uh, what you might call a substance dualist.
I mean, he, he believes substance dualist. Yeah. I call people that all the time. What does that even mean? Like that, that, that, that humans are based are, are two substances. They're a metaphysical substance and a physical substance. So you're, you're a mind and a brain. You're not just a brain, you know? And so the, the, the, you is, is, is the synthesis of these two substances. And he, so this, you know, he, he makes the point, uh, it's a very good book.
I mean, he makes the point that we humans are meaning makers. We, we are the only things in the universe that do that. We give, we, we give everything meaning, we can't stop it. It's a, we are, it is a fundamental core aspect of what being a human is because it is the thing that makes us, it is the thing that makes us distinct as we give, we give meaning to things. Remember, you know, remember, you know, we talked about this before, this deep, uh, philosophy when you get into meaning.
Yeah. And about we've, we talked about aboutness the, the aboutness is a property is a non -physical property. This only possessed by the human mind for our, for our Canadian listeners. That's a bootiness. That's right. Hoser. The, a bootiness is a, is a, is a property of thoughts and functions of the human mind. We think about things, we give things meaning and video. I was kind of musing on this a little bit yesterday. Video doesn't have this quality to it.
Like television, you know, the dumbing down of the, of the American mind or whatever, you know, this video or musing ourselves to death or whatever that book was. Yes. Yeah. Neil Postman. Yeah. Uh, television, television makes you this sort of alpha wave zombie. Totally. Where you turn off most of the features of your mind. Um, we watch something happen and then we tell ourselves after the fact, we tell ourselves a story about what we saw.
Um, so like you've, you've, we watch a movie and during the movie, you were just experiencing the series of images and sounds. Then after you have the, and people, people express this in different ways. Sometimes they'll say, okay, I just need a minute to process this.
You hear people say that after they've seen something, something very moving, or are they something they thought was important and what they, what they're actually doing is they're saying, I need to think about this in order for me to understand it. I have to think about what I saw and tell myself a story about that thing. That's how we understand things. And the storytelling is the infusion of meaning into a thing so that we can understand what that thing is.
And you feel that, and this may be just true, that with, with watching video creates this alpha state and audio is different. I believe audio is different. I believe it too. I just never thought of it in this context. I had neither until yesterday. Audio is different because we're process, we are assigning meaning as in real time. We are participating in the process.
The troll room and us are, we're going back and you know, and for the board, the boardroom and the two of us are going back and forth. We're all participating in this thing together. Even though they're not talking, they're listening and they're, they are assigning this meaning as we, as we go along. The V, if we did a video podcast, like they, this would not be the same dynamic.
So the LLM stuff, the, the reason this came up to me is because the LLM stuff is worse than television because it doesn't just, it doesn't just turn off this meaning making process. It hijacks it. It turned, it took like that, that fake podcast we listened to. It, it jacks in directly to this meaning making procedure in our, in, in us and distorts it because it starts assigning meaning with some random algorithm to the things that we, that we're hearing.
And it, it, it pushes, it's like it derails the entire process. We, before you know it, you don't even know what you're listening to anymore. Um, that's, wow, that's deep. That's good. It's deep. It's good. Is Dave taking drugs? Well, I'm eating cashews. So on that, on that note, so I was listening to Rogan with Mel Gibson yesterday. I watched for a little bit, you know, just, just to see what he looked like and, you know, but then I, I find that I have the YouTube app, so I just turn it off.
And then when I walk, I switch over to the podcast audio version, which by the way, it's the interruptions in the middle of the, of the conversation, the minerals. Oh, it's not, it's not even mid-roll. I got a pre-roll and then no, it starts off with the podcast. Then about a minute in you get an ad and then it rolls for about four minutes, another ad. And then you don't get a whole thing. Then the whole show goes until a post -roll. It's just like, wow, that's really super annoying.
Um, but so I was listening. You've seen Passion of the Christ, Mel Gibson's movie. Yeah. A long time ago. Now, do you, do you remember, what do you remember about that movie? Um, let me see. I remember, well, okay. I remember some things around the movie. I remember, well, see the movie itself. I remember some images from it around the movie. I know that it was very controversial. Um, there's a lot of, because it was so bloody and that kind of stuff.
But I remember in during the movie, I remember the crown of thorns scene. Do you remember, do you remember that all the actors exclusively spoke Aramaic and it was subtitled? Yes, I do remember that. And Gibson had this whole theory. He said, cause he's doing, he's done a couple of movies like this. He's doing another one. And he says, it's such a different experience. Now for me, it's very comfortable to watch television or a movie and read subtitles. Cause I grew up with it in the Netherlands.
Every English movie was subtitled. So I'm very comfortable. I think most people today are comfortable with captions and young people, especially. Yes. And I noticed that I often find myself, even listening to pod news daily, reading along with the transcript. And I think it sinks in better.
You know, this is, this is that, you know, that research that has come out, I think in multiple, multiple studies that says, if you write, if you take notes with like a pen, that it actually, you remember it more. This is why I journal every day on my remarkable smart pad. Is it, is the, the other movie he did that way? Wasn't it at that one about South, like South American? Yes. Can you do a movie about South American Indian tribes? Yes. Yes. Okay. All right. That's interesting.
I never thought about that, but I do remember that that was a big deal because that was like, it was because Aramaic, I think it's a dead language, right? I haven't spoken it in a while. Not at least since high school, right? My buddy, Jimmy can, he has quite a deep knowledge of it. Oh, does he? It may not be. I may be completely wrong. It may be a living language. I just don't know. I mean, you never hear it.
Well, it's, it's, you know, a lot of the original language of the Bible was Greek Aramaic. You know, there's a lot of, a lot of stuff. Jesus spoke Aramaic. Yeah, Jesus spoke Aramaic. Yeah, exactly. Wow. Where do we go from here? We've gone so deep. Where do we go? I don't know if I can pull us out of this, out of this hole. Oh, deep thought hole. Oh, the deep thought. I don't, let's see, we got, how much time we got? I did want to say one thing about Noster. I just resist it.
It's the dumbest marketing I've ever heard. It's stupid. You know, I'm censorship resistant. I mean, Facebook is censorship resistant. You know, I have a water resistant watch. You know, it's like, it's, it's, it's, there's a lot of things that Noster is. Censorship resistant is just bad marketing. I don't have a better suggestion right now, but I just wanted to put that out there. The more I think about it, I'm like, oh gosh, I hate this term. Censorship resistant.
Everything can be, everything can be censored. Resistant is a meaningless term. Yes. Thank you. Exactly. Do you want to thank some people considering your time? Oh, I did want to mention it's, although I won't use it. And as a specialized app, which you know, I'm, I'm all, I'm all for specialized podcast apps, always have been, will continue to be true fans using secure RSS is definitely interesting for what they're trying to do. The secure RSS where you can like a L4 or two.
Yeah. The L4, you can purchase something. If not something I'm interested in, but I think it is a very interesting development. I like it a lot. And I'm interested to see what kind of uptake it gets because it is in essence, an open protocol type system. I like all that. I think people are selling themselves short. It's, it's also not really what podcasting ever was supposed to be. Podcasting never had a business model in that regard.
But I, I, I do want to just say that's interesting, interesting stuff, interesting stuff for sure. Yeah. I agree. I like, I like that a lot, but I like just having the ability to sell content if you want to, like you said, it's not, it's not my thing, but I think, I think for pod, I think for podcasting to be complete, it needs that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, people have subscriptions, people have private RSS feeds.
I mean, it's, yeah, it's, it's interesting and I, and I hope it's very successful for them. Again, not, not for me, but I hope that's very successful for them. Yeah, me too. And with that, I'm going to give you a couple of songs. What? No, no, no, no. We don't have time for songs. No, this, this new time that you have, we don't have time for songs. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah. Well, you should be. It's, it's, I feel bad. It's blasphemy, man. I can't believe it. I've ruined the show.
You have ruined the format. We got Lyceum coming in with a row of ducks, 22, 22, writing. That's Boobury. I'll get to Boobury in a second. Uh, writing a comment with a payment on TrueFans. Had a great conversation with Sam Sethi, Sethi together with my co-host, Deborah Anderson. New podcast in the making, Studio Fusion. All the best from Martin. Very nice. Uh, there's Boobury, 17,776 sats. Thank you very much. I'm beyond, uh, Enceladus, E-N-C-E -L-A-D-U-S. I don't know.
For how things have come, for how things have come together for, for Sunday. Ah, visual artists, musicians, programmers, video editors, models all coalesced together this Sunday, Sunday, Sunday, Sunday, 4 p.m. Central for The Embrace. LiveIsLit.com. Yes. Is that, that's a satellite skirmish. Elated. Maybe he meant elated. I think he meant elated. Yes. Which comes in, uh, right after the No Agenda show. Uh, Dee's Laughs, who you just heard boost in 321. ITM never missed a board meeting.
My fountain app too is acting funny. Then I think about the saying, I'm surprised any of this works at all, especially since I'm in Canada, eh? In Toronto, I believe. 3330 from Chad F. Stephen B. and Hazard 149. We're on bowl after bowl, episode 361, talking all things Nosker and podcasting 2.0. Yeah, that's, uh, I have that on my list to listen to. Dreb Scott, 1234, boost, boost, boost. Dreb never gets enough credit for all the wonderful work he does on chapters for thousands of podcasts.
It's much appreciated. Salty Crayon, 808. Howdy, Dave and Adam. Threw an idea at Stephen B. last week. If nodes are the ledgers of the blockchain and run the lightning network, could we build our own nodes and back up the index on a node? And if so, would it sink to the changes made at the core of the index IDK? I'm just an IT guy with a podcast. What do I know in the pipe? Wow, that's an interesting thought.
I've got like next week, I think I want to start talking a little bit about some index stuff because, um, I've got some ideas about, um, if I've been trying to get pod ping D, uh, that's Alex's pod ping D, uh, popping, um, storage Damon. Yeah. So I want to go, I want to start distributing that to different places.
Um, and I've been talking, I'm going back and forth, uh, with, uh, with Alex, uh, we're working out some issues with trying to get the, um, he put object storage in, he baked it into the, to the process, to the, to the, um, to the, to the Damon. Yeah. He baked it in. And so I've got, I'm using Linode and we're getting, we finally figured out it's giving us some, an SSL certificate issue. So, um, I know, I think I know how to fix that now. I think we worked, we worked out that out this morning.
Okay. And so I'm going to get that working this week and start pushing, uh, pod pings to object storage. So it would hopefully make, make it easier for people to, uh, to track that data, you know, as in their own, however they see fit. I like it. But yeah, so that's one, that's one thing, uh, getting sort of back into index work is, uh, is the pod ping D, uh, rollout.
And then, uh, other people can, once we have the bucket in place, that's going to store the pod, the pod ping data, uh, then other people can mirror that bucket if they want to. And so we can have that be distributed. So there's not a single point of failure. And then, um, but, but I have, which is basically a way to build the index or build an index. Uh, huh. Yeah. You could re you could replay that to find feeds and do it.
Yeah. You, you could do a lot of stuff with that to just sort of like bootstrap a new index. Nice. Uh, but, but then, um, you know, to, to, to a degree, uh, but then what were you gonna say? No, no, go ahead. I'm just laughing at the scale of it. Yeah. To a degree. Oh yeah. But then there's also, I've had this idea for a long time that I want to begin actually working on now. And that is, uh, changing the way that the index, uh, aggregator does his polling. Yeah, I know you have.
And I'm finally, I'm, I'm ready. I think I'm ready to pull the trigger on fleshing this out and getting this to work, but as a, and I'll talk about this next week, but as an adjunct to that, I want to, this is, that would be a good time to figure out how we get other people on board to support, to, to, I think people want to participate in hosting fragments of the index or I don't know how to say it. Oh yeah. Yeah, of course. I certainly do. I'd love it. Give me a start nine app, baby.
The old, the only, the only issue is whenever you, whenever you charge something and begin to host parts of things in other areas is those, those other pieces have to be online. If you say that you're going to host something and then you're, you know, you're, you're down 50% of the time, that doesn't work. That's no good. So decentralizing is a, it's not only complicated, but it also requires you to be like legit and committed. So we have to talk through all this. Anyway, start talk.
Then we'll start talking that next week. 22,223 sats from chimp. Thank you very much. No note, but we appreciate it. 22, 22 from Oystein Berger, hyperlocal baby. So what he says, and uh, is always seeing going to do a show after this? He usually pops on after we're done. Uh, 21, 21 from Macintosh. He says, CSB, thanks for the kind words about Satoshi's plebs last week. Appreciate it. Go podcasting. 1, 2, 3, 4 from Dreb Scott, pre -show boost. And I think that is all we have.
Oh, uh, I don't see a delimiter. I think comic strip blogger, do you have a problem with his, with his app? I think I saw a note about that somewhere. So I don't, I don't have a, I don't have a boost from him, but I believe that's the delimiter for me. And, uh, in our value for value efforts to keep everything running on the index, Dave was going to give us the rest of the support. Uh, no, no single, uh, one-off PayPal's this week, but we did have some monthlies.
We've got Podverse. That's Mitch and Creon, 50 bucks. Nice. Thank you very much. Thank you. Basil Philip, $25 and Mitch Downey, $10. Thank you, Mitch. And, uh, Christopher Harabaric, $10. Nice. Thank you all very much. Appreciate that. Oh, I did a rip instead of a crumple. Yeah. Could you please just go back and crumple that? There you go. Oh yes. That sounds good. The curry one picks up the crumple just fine. Oh, nice. Uh, let's see. Tone, uh, Tone Wrecker gave us 2025 stats. Oh, there you go.
I see what you did there. Through fountain. He says, great to kick off the new year with a new episode to catch up with. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Randy Black, triple seven. We got it. Um, let's see. Boobury to see Boobury through fountain. He says fast approaching January 12th. Satellite skirmish. Polar embrace. Live after no agenda. We have both returning and familiar faces joining this edition. What I'm most excited for. We have new boost alerts featuring the artwork from the young Bolets.
I've never put it. I've never put children into a value split, but I'm thrilled to check it out at live is lit.com. Glad you liked the sign. Just need to get it to get it to flash on a pod ping update. Well, maybe you can do that with the new pod ping D or as someone said, the big D. Oh, we'll just call it the big D the big, the big, let's please not call it the big day. Okay. Pod ping D got it. Don't go to the big d.com. Uh, Alex says Dave sound is better with the changes you made earlier.
Adam. Oh, okay. And what if I told you, what if I told you I made no changes and that's just in your mind, the theater of the mind. That's right. I'm turning this button. How does it sound now? I do this all about now. I do this with Tina with her headphones. She's like, I can't hear you. And I'll just touch the button. I don't do anything. So how about now? Yes. Perfect. Okay. Don't touch it again. It's you nailed it. He's nailed it. Cole McCormick, satchel of Richards through fountain.
He says, I am burned out with listening to Rogan. I personally want more interviews on my podcast, but I want the guests to be interesting and not boring. Solo episodes are still interesting. Since we don't have a comic strip blogger, I'm just having to put more, more emotion into every boost. Like I miss him. I mean, this is, this is a harsh, harsh reality. I miss comics or blogger. I miss his, uh, his boost. It's a, it's a cold, desolate winter.
Gene, like Gene Everett, he sent us 33, 33 sats, um, through fountain. He says, boost, boost, boost, anonymous 22, 22 sats through podverse. He says, cool animated background on the live stream artwork. Yes. Yeah. I think that was from the last show. I think that was from that, that, that was a delimiter from the last show. Alive. Okay. I remember the weirdest things. Yep. And so I think that's it. That's all we got. Wow. You have two and a half minutes left. What are we going to do?
This is crazy. I show 201. Oh yeah. Well, yeah, but we have one hour and 27 minutes on the podcast. I mean, were you going to short change us? Uh, well, yeah, yeah. The answer is yeah. The, uh, you know, yeah, let, let, let me, I can, I can fill two minutes. Okay. You know what, you know what, let me just talk about this since we're talking about like, uh, streaming and radio and all this kind of stuff.
Motor trend is a, is a subscription service that I used to subscribe that I subscribed to for years. They had a bunch of car shows on there that I liked. Is that television or is that a magazine? It was a magazine. And then they went, became a television network. Right. That's what I remember. Uh, and so then they had a bunch of cool car shows on there. Roadkill was their most famous car show.
It was a great show where, uh, these, a couple of dudes go and they just like resurrect a car out of the, out of the junkyard. Out of dust. They literally would go into a junkyard, grab a car, get it running in a couple of hours, get the brakes working and then go off on like a 500 mile road trip. And they're breaking, they're breaking down every couple of hours, you know? Yeah. It's great fun.
And then, uh, so I subscribed to it and it was like four 99, like this is maybe like six years ago, it was four 99 a month and I watched it all the time. And then they raised the price to five 99. I'm like, okay, that's fine. Whatever. Then discovery bought them. Then they moved, they had their own app, which was great on the Roku. They got rid of the app, moved all the shows into the discovery plus app, which sucks.
No. And then I just got an email last week saying that they're canceling all the motor trend shows except for, uh, about four or five that are just kind of crap, like that non-specific car review type shows. And they're raising the price from five 99 to nine 99. And it's going to have ads. I love the, and it's going to have ads part. Everything is now, and it has ads like it's a feature. Uh-huh.
The, um, now if, if they had continued, what do you think you would have given them value for value to maintain even just that one show that you like the, the, the dust to driving? What would you think the roadkill show? Yeah. What do you think you would have given them value for value on a monthly basis? Just watching the show a couple of times.
If they had never told me the price and said, give me what you want, just like as a monthly subscription, I would have given them, I don't know, 15, 20 bucks a month. And my point is made everybody exactly. Yeah, exactly. So. Cause you're like, you know, cause you don't, if you, if nobody tells you what the price is, then you have to decide for yourself. That's right. You got to dig deep inside your heart. That's right. That's right. It's not tipping people. It's not tipping two minutes, baby.
All right, everybody. That's it for podcasting 2.0 brother. Dave, have yourself a great weekend. You too, man. And, um, board room. Have a great weekend. We'll be back next Friday. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast index.org for more information. Man, I was there, bro. Yeah.