Episode 197: Yay JSON!

and is always premium content. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man who hashes hctp without fear or favor, say hello to my friend on the other end, the one, the only Mr. Ons himself, Dave Jones,

yeah, okay, I can pull it down a little bit like that. Okay, yeah,

else is live? And I like, some new media show was live. And so they got in and started, you know, boosting those guys, right?

world, and just does a synchronization. You get an email, and you're done. So when I publish my feed, which then has the live item in it, you know, obviously I get an email notification. I don't always look for the email notification, but I can see, you know, stuff starts to go off or not, and I get, I get pings that's live now. It's very kind of hit or miss, because the whatever, I guess I'm using podcast guru, which does its own parsing, I think that's probably why I got

the why I got the notification. But even uploading the feed, it really depended on which server your app or whatever it was was hitting, whether you got the updated feed or not. So if you happen to get the one, I think podcast guru just got lucky. Yeah, exactly. So it just happened to get the one where I upload the file because the synchronization wasn't working. And then after I'm done with the show, I'm like, publishing. And I'm like, How come it's an episodes.fm updated? That's

what's interesting. Like, okay, because I guess episodes.fm doesn't look to the index. When you use something, it doesn't have an iTunes ID, I just use the URL. So it got lucky. It said, Okay, good to go, good to publish. And then there's all kind and of course, the errors come like, Hey, I'm not getting it. This is not happening. That's not I don't understand what's going on. And I'm like, I don't I can't figure it out because I can see the feed. I refresh the page, I get I get it

from the servers. It looks good. And then you say, No, I'm not getting it because I pinged you opened it in my browser, and it was right. And then, so I refresh my browser, and then it wasn't there. Then it was only episode 23 I'm like, okay, something screwed up. I immediately think, caching, but boy, that's a long cache. Trying to bust the cache. Re uploading stuff. So I wind up. I hit Telegram for void zero. He's not responding. So I pull the bat sigma, pull the emergency rip

cord, which is a text which I'm in his priority group. So he gets woken up in the middle of the night in Holland. Oh

hasn't updated in over three hours? And so I verify Instagram, ball or no for no agenda, for no agenda, and I think it was just an apple parsing error or whatever it was. And every, every tweet said, Time to switch to a modern podcast app. See, yep, because that's one of the features I always, I always say, if you get a modern podcast app, you get almost real time updates. You know, there's no waiting around for hours. And so this is thank you Apple for marketing that that was great.

thing from Apple. I didn't like Apple back then, so I checked it out, and I was hooked, because I was so burned out on talk radio. I had a long commute back then, and I was burned out on local talk radio, the sports and news on the nines or whatever it was. And then I discovered this world of podcasts where I could listen to exactly the information I wanted. And then at some point, I realized I know how to do this same kind of thing. I was a web

developer, web designer. I had some production background, and eventually it took me two years to actually get going, because I struggle with perfectionism, but eventually I just wanted to jump in. And it took people to say what I'm sure Adam is thinking right now is, don't try to be perfect, just jump in and do it. You're

So it creates a feed, and these feeds need to be out there and subscribable. And of course, they are with an RSS URL immediately. But then, you know, the issue is, then, okay, how do you present it to the world in a way where they can easily subscribe, which is always been the Achilles heel of podcasting. And so Nathan's episodes.fm I was like, Oh, this is, this is a godsend. I mean, this is great. I'm just gonna plug this thing in. And when, when you fire up a feed as a site. It's a side

effect of this other thing, this feed pops out. Well, then I'll just pump that through episodes.fm and then the listener can use episodes.fm which is this beautiful user interface and and so easy. The problem is, you push this feed over. Do you push this feed URL over to epso.fm, and this thing is a new feed. It's the world has never seen this thing before. You know, 30 seconds ago it didn't exist. So it's not in any directories. It's not in any sort of distribution whatsoever.

So you're immediately going to be limited to only podcast apps that can support local ingestion of an RSS feed, or podcasts that pull from the index, because we're pod pinging it immediately into the index, and the index ingests, you know, instantly, instantly. So you but the but the the experience you get. And this is not the fault of episodes of.fm this is the this is just the problem of podcastings work. Yeah. The problem with podcast distribution is that the like

the top two spots are Spotify and Apple podcasts. Those two things are there. They have their own directories, and they're also gatekeepers. You have to create an account on their system and then submit your feed to them, so you're that feed is never going to be in there. So those two, those first two links, the ones to everybody's familiar with, are just going to result in in nothing. I mean, like Apple's gonna the apple link is gonna, is gonna break?

Daniel J. Lewis: Yeah, well, there is a workaround for that, at least for Apple is okay. And some other apps do this too, where they have a website version. Uh, no. Even better than that, there is a, either it's a HTML or HTML. Sorry, not forget the HT part. We'll edit that out. Dot

some form of the app URL. It's not always the schema that's used sometimes it is just a straight URL, like, I think podcast attic does this, where, if you do podcast addict.com/i, think it might just be feed slash, and then it's the feed URL. It allows you to subscribe directly to that feed Spotify, of course, doesn't do that, but you. Used to be with episodes.fm it would, and I think that's a change that was made, it would highlight browsers that use or that recognize this feed or have

already subscribed. It was something especially for Live episodes now, now I still get the full list. It also used to also only support or only show apps that supported the live tag. I think that's a change that was made.

G and again, this is not a this is not a criticism of episodes.fm, this is just the the wonkiness of the way podcasting is, is what I get is g Potter is the top spot Spotify is the next one that feeds not going to be in there. So what it's going to do is it's going to do a cert it, it's going to kick me to a Spotify search for the title, which is fine, that's, that's a good way to fall back, but this, but the feeds just not going to be there. So that's not the user is

going to be confused. They're not going to know what to do. Then it gives ln beats Pocket Casts, and the fifth one down is Apple podcasts. But see, I'm, I'm on a Linux box, so this apple podcast link is just, is not going to, is not going to do anything. It's just going to, it's just going to fail. So that that's, that's the like, it only works. That only works if your own device or on Mac, but the link still shows up for other platforms. So you still get this confusing, like, I don't know

what's happening here. Now, I'm sure Nathan has, you know, ways to, like, detect platform and work around some of these issues. But if you look at the full if you just go down the full list and look at all the different options, you have a lot of exceptions. There's a lot of exceptions. There's more exceptions than non exceptions, is what I'm saying. And

Daniel J. Lewis: Okay, so you're saying, like, if you haven't intentionally submitted your feed, right, right, then it doesn't appear in these other apps that rely on Apple's catalog for their list of podcasts. Yes, exactly, yes, exactly. And so, you know, it's, it would not be, and it's understandable. They can do whatever they want. They can run their directories and their platforms however they want, if they want to be

on the iPhone, is that podcast scheme. You know, it'll at least, this was my experience the lat, any app can register that podcast scheme. So when you're when you're hitting it, whatever the. Last app you installed, that's the one that catches it. Daniel J. Lewis: Yeah, here's an example of that. I also have downcast installed on my Mac, and if I do it PC, colon, slash, slash, which is supposed to be for iTunes podcast. It's that old that should open an apple podcast, but right now that

prompts me to open in downcast. What

sort of like just go sideways over to another web player. Um, well, it could in certain circumstances, but, but not in this one. But the thing is, so I think ultimately, what I'm what I'm realizing, is that there's like, for well established shows, first shows that have distribution, they're going to episodes.fm is going to just be a godsend. It's like, boom, right through,

use. Well, Daniel J. Lewis: there are two kind of solutions with this. One is that, yeah, you you be opinionated with it, and you recommend those top apps. And anyone who uses something other than those top apps is probably going to be familiar enough with their own app to be able to search for the podcast, but telling people to search in their app, I am against that.

The other approach that you could take, yeah, you can also do the smart kind of thing, and I've been doing that with a feature of podgagement, where I display, I detect the device that's visiting the page, and I display only what's compatible with that device. And there could be something there too, kind of like, what with what Nathan does with episodes.fm, where you can have it remember your selection, and that remembering the selection leads to the other thing do you know

about blueberries? Subscribe on android.com. Yeah, that's nice some JavaScript or something. Daniel J. Lewis: It's something that the app developers had to put into their app. I don't know exactly how it works, but it is something they had to put into their app, but it's super simple code that they can support. And what that allows it to do is that if someone visits subscribe on android.com it will open that podcast in their preferred app, or whatever app it is that they

have installed on their system, as long as it's supported. So that kind of thing, that's what we need. But that, and also just this idea, going back to kind of an abandoned thing in podcasting, 2.0 is the fast follow idea. That's really what

we need. Here is some way that people can quickly follow a podcast from whatever app, both clicking a link inside of that app as well as opening really any podcast link, if possible, to automatically trigger opening that in their preferred app, and some of that, I know we're limited because of what you can do with the mobile operating system, but there are certain things that you can do with these URL schemas and the the JavaScript tricks or URL patterns to potentially remember

a favorite app, like what Nathan is doing with episodes.fm. Yeah, I think, I think this, you know, I don't expect this to be, I don't know, solved ever fully in a way that's satisfactory, which, you know, I think the solution we're all looking for, if we could all just sit down in room with with the platforms, and say, you know, with the mobile platforms,

and say, okay, look, this is what we want. I think we would all come up with something like, when I click on a podcast, colon, slash, slash, link, it pops up a list and ask me which installed players I want to which, which one of these do we want to use that that's like, this beautiful, you know. A system that we would all want. It's probably a pipe dream to think that's ever going to happen any, you know, ever, but

especially not anytime soon. But you know, in the meantime, you know this, yeah, like you said, I think we're going to have to just be, not be afraid, to be opinionated about, hey, here's a bunch. Here's my use case. This, this, this thing I'm building, and I'm speaking as just general developer here, this thing I'm building has these needs. It needs live support or funding tag support, or blah, blah, blah, you list all the things it needs, and then you say, okay, which apps fit that criteria?

Which apps do I, you know, do those things? And you say, Okay, well, these seven apps do that. Well, I'm just going to recommend those apps, and I'm just going to link out to those things, and I'm not even, I'm just not going to worry about Spotify or Apple or these other things, because, I mean, podcasters, clearly, you know, have Adam's listenership, he's

moved from on no agenda. You've moved your a massive amount of people from, from just standard apps, oh, yeah, pre installed apps, over to other apps.

Daniel J. Lewis: I think that I want to challenge that idea of it's not hurting me. And I did a whole episode about this once on the audacity to podcast that we really can't know that unless you have a parallel universe to split test things in, you really can't know. Are you missing audience? Because you've done in one platform. I've done the A B and the A B. I only have one metric. I was just helping someone with this thing. I have one metric. Am I receiving enough value in return for the

value I'm putting out there? We were on Spotify for a bit when they first launched. They ingested us. I had never asked for it. Didn't even know it. And then, and then I discovered it, and I said, I said, take it off. They took it off. And there were some people who said, Oh, you're no longer on Spotify. But what didn't change, Daniel, is the value we Daniel J. Lewis: received, right? Because that's the metric that matters to you. In this case, that's the only metric in podcasting that matters.

Daniel J. Lewis: People value different things. So for some people, the value is they just want a big audience. Like in my podcast, I teach this profit paradigm, which profit stands for popularity, relationships, opportunity, fun, income and tangibles so different ways that people can get value from their audience, as well as give value to their audience through their podcast. And so for some people, they just want to be popular. They just want a big audience. They want their audience

listening in whatever app they want. But then there are the others, and I would, and I would be okay with that, Daniel, if, if the if I could just be in any app people want to use, but the fact that I need to sign a sign an agreement with both Apple and with Spotify that's already breaking the basic agreement. So I. As an American, I will not stand for that. Yeah, yeah. I'm telling you, that's the part that is pissing me off.

It's like, that's the only thing. It's like, yeah, okay, you want, you want to be Spotify, great, but don't force me to sign some kind of terms of service with you. That's not okay, that that's total horse crap. So now with Apple, and this is the one thing I'd love to still find a workaround for. For our project, you can subscribe manually to a podcast. You can just input the feed into into Apple. Now, go ahead.

Daniel J. Lewis: There's a very good reason to do that for any shows that are controversial or concerned that they might be de platformed in any way, because I keep harping on this since iOS 14.5 you know that catastrophic event that came out since then, Apple no longer subscribes people directly to RSS feeds. Now, when you press subscribe or follow in Apple podcast, you are connected to Apple's proxy of that podcast about that. So if Apple or the podcaster remove themselves from Apple podcast,

the audience is disconnected from the podcast. 301, redirects, do not save this. It is all about the audience is now following the listing, the catalog listing of the podcast. So like that whole thing that happened with Alex Jones was before iOS 14.5 and back then when it happened, when Apple kicked him out of Apple podcasts and Stitcher were really the first people to kick him out. But when Apple did it, he didn't lose any of his existing Apple podcast audience at that time.

If that happened today, because the app actually was subscribed to the feed and not to Daniel J. Lewis: happen today, though, he would lose his entire

apple podcast audience. So this is a big reason why anyone who's concerned about freedom of speech or censorship, corporate censorship, government censorship, for whatever reason, they should not recommend subscribing from a catalog like Apple and certainly not Spotify. Spotify has always been this way, but Apple switched to being this way because Apple can stand between the audience. Apple could even prevent a single episode from going out. We know

they do we know they do this. We know we know they do it. We know that Spotify does it. Specific episodes are de platformed, Daniel J. Lewis: and they have if

at some point where they have to get some other app. Now, whether that's just the apple podcast default app, or the, you know, YouTube default, whatever that might that's, you know, that's fine, but it, it's, it seems like it's because Spotify is so closed, gated, um, against anything that's, you can't use our private RSS feeds with it. So if, you know, if you have a a private, like membership feed, like I do for America this week.

It's a it's a private feed coming out of sub stack. I couldn't even use that in sub in Spotify if I wanted to, right? So it doesn't take much before you can get a barrier and have to use some other app. Anyway. Let

the signal would not be off. The signal beyond would go like, Doom, Doom, Doom, Doom Hill for some three Doom, Doom, Doom, they would just repeat until seven, and then at 1130 would go off the air. Now it's 24/7 and the pirate radio ships were in the North Sea playing the music that the kids wanted to hear. So we were listening to long wave. Not am long wave. You know, that's basically, yeah, there you go, perfect timing, and

you'll see it. And you'd have to retune, you have to kind of turn your body sometimes to get the signal, but at least we could hear the music we wanted. And people will do all kinds of things to get the content they want. Now, the thing that is this elusive discovery mechanism, which I don't believe in, in podcasting, because there's inherently no algorithms, maybe Spotify recommends some stuff or

whatever. That's a different story. That's what platforms are good at, is figuring out what you want and recommending something to you. But in general, I found that people don't discover no agenda or any of our other podcasts. It's someone else saying, Hey, have you heard this podcast? No, can I get on Spotify? No, it's only on x, y or z. People will do that. They will do that to get something that some their buddy has told them, or that they've been listening to previously,

and they can't they'll do whatever. They'll do whatever they want to get that content. There should be no fear about that at all.

done. I mean, you don't just sign anything, you know. I mean, we're gonna find you. We're gonna stick it in there. Whether you know, without your, you know, without your input anyway, and if you want it out, you can. But that's to me, that's a directory. Yes, that's an actual like discovery mechanism. If there's a

happy about it. Going to be running after themselves. Daniel J. Lewis: Spotify wasn't already full of crap. Okay,

idea it was AI. The vocals didn't sound your typical, you know, AI type vibe. I was like, I'm okay with that, if, if I want to, you know, I we all, hey, I listen. I danced and listened to disco. Yeah, come on. It was basically a that's basically it. That was the beginning of AI music. I mean, we went through this with, oh, it's not real drums. That's a drum machine. That's no good. It's ruining the music business. Well, arguably, no, no. So I don't think it's ruining value

for value music at all. If it's a good song, it's a good song, it doesn't matter. You know, if I hit some washboards and buckets, or if I had ai do something, if I like it, then I like it. And if people don't like it, then I shouldn't be playing it. If they go, that's nasty. I can hear it's aI I don't like it. How is that ruining everything? If people, I think there will be AI, music, podcasts, I see no reason why there wouldn't be. Daniel J. Lewis: Let's dive into that.

That was funny, Daniel. Let's unpack this. Yes, exactly. Let's dive into, let's do a deep dive on that. Yes, exactly. And, I mean, I like all of these notebook LM podcasts because they become so recognizable and they're, I mean, some of them are actually it's hilarious. I mean, I can, I can listen to. It's limited, because now everyone's sending me, hey, look what I did. I put raccoon butt in there. Eight minutes on raccoon, but it's funny for 30 seconds, and then

it's not funny anymore. But as these voices will become changeable, I listened to, I listened to an AI podcast. I listened to, we talked about that on the last show. What is it called

me, which is what I suggested months ago. I said, How come my app can't i can't subscribe to a blog, and the app just reads me that blog. That'd be fine. So I don't have a problem. I don't see, you know, also this whole tagging AI content. I mean, come on, what's next? Tag Photoshop jobs. I don't see it as a huge issue. Personally, I like the fact that it's filling up Spotify with crappy podcast, because after the novelty wears off, they're crappy. It's not it's the content.

Daniel J. Lewis: What it does help is makes the authentic podcast really stand out. Like I went on a rant about this in one of my episodes recently, I like being in the kitchen and cooking and stuff. And whenever I go onto YouTube to try and find the best whatever potato peeler, I find all of these videos that are just AI. Generated crap where they just looked at what has the top ratings on Amazon. Let's promote it with affiliate links. Let's do this generic voiceover that tells you really

nothing. So there's so much of that out there that when I see a video of someone actually using the product, their opinion, to me, skyrockets, because they are a real person, actually using it, not just talking about it because it's popular, but they're sharing their opinion and experience. And let's so much more. Let's be honest, the algo didn't recommend those to you. Had to do some work to find it. Am I correct? Yes, yeah. Usually like second page, and this is I went through this

with, with Didi Stein. You know, the whole P Diddy thing. So I'm, I'm looking for information on Diddy, and, whoa, there must be 1000 AI generated YouTube channels about Diddy. And because you're watching it, and you hear the voice like, okay, you know, it's like, I know this is not really a person speaking, but I can handle that. And then the images just, you know, they rotate, like, I've just saw that. It's all B roll. And after about 45 minutes, like, okay, no one has anything. This is all

crap. It's all from headlines, until I finally found one, one person who I thought was, you know, had had some good information. I could follow them, but the AI stuff, it actually, it's a big turnoff. It's a big turnoff. It's, it's, it's slop. It is slop. All of it, I just like saying slop.

person, like a bug, an avatar. And then you can define a role that they're going to be on the show, like a guest host, the audio engineer, whatever. So that's the person tag, and then you have, so then pod ID is something that that Russell created as sort of a layer over the top of the person tag, and that is, I'm thinking of it like Gravatar for podcasting that that may not be fair, but that's, That's kind of the way I think about this, I think, and this is what I think he's doing.

I think he is crawling all of the podcasts. I don't know how he determines which ones to crawl and which ones not to or if he's crawling all 4 million. I don't know what he's how many he's doing. You. But he's caught crawling through tons of podcasts to find person tags, and then he's sort of bringing those in and making them searchable through pod id.org but then, but what you have to do is you have to sign up, sort

of like Gravatar. You have to sign up and then put in your, you know, like your email address and and your link to your website and some stuff, some identifying information. And then, then pod ID will associate you with these different person tags that have appeared across the corpus of feeds. So then, when people are using the pod id.org API, they can find all easily find all of your appearances based on a hash of the href or a hash of your email address.

Daniel J. Lewis: It seems interesting, and still, though, I wonder, do we need a third party service to do that? Because, like, you think of Gravatar, not everything supports Gravatar. Some places, you have to upload your image manually. Some of them, you it's frustrating that you can't upload your image, and the only way you can change your image is

by going to gravatar and creating an account. I think though hot ID, at least from my understanding what you've said and what Russell has said is, seems like it's an optional third party service, kind of like episodes.fm that someone could use if they want to, and if they don't want to, then they don't need to go over there and sign up. Here's

person tag. Well, that's for sure. Like, if I wanted to, since I've been a guest on a lot of podcasts in the past, if I wanted to create a quick archive of here all of the episodes I've ever been on, I can't do that by searching the person tag, because not all of those podcasts have searched the person tag or used it.

2.0 so that one's automatic. It found me immediately there. And then there's other there's these other four, and they're all things that I've they're all feeds that I've done. Yeah, I don't know that I even put the person tag in those. Here's what

the good news, but we're gonna die. A plan for that, plan for that so, but so with this plans, you know, we have the with, there's a lot of different plans, but in in general, Dave goes, a lot of problems happen, a lot of problems with a lot of projects and a lot of apps. That's the index. So now, if we bootstrap all kinds of other centralized things on top of it, there's your main problem. What I find interesting, and this is what kind of piqued my interest. And so let me step back. It's a

display purposes thing. I will put in whatever Daniel J Lewis wants me to put in. I usually just select a picture and put that into the person tag, and I know that apps that support this will show the picture that I chose, which is, I love having that control, because I can choose the worst picture or the

best picture. Oh, it's all up to me, I, after all, control my feed and whatever link, and it may be something that Daniel wants to promote today and which may be different from yesterday, and he may not want to have to update some centralized thing that changes everything. So I like the fact that there's a lot of flexibility, and it's for that episode. Code in the feed that I'm producing that I want to have look a certain way in the apps. I want that information to be passed

through. What I find compelling about what Russell has done is I wouldn't mind having a resource that I can go to and say, what other podcasts has this person appeared on and because he's already claimed to be scraping, you know, transcripts and doing all kinds of stuff, that could be a valuable research tool. Daniel J. Lewis: And that thing does already exist, like with podchaser. Yeah, well, I've never used podchaser, so So I wouldn't know. Well, there you go. There's kind of your answer.

So is it really something that's necessary to have this centralized resource and the pain? Because it's painful, it's look how much effort it took. Okay, we had some early adopters, but it's been very painful to get the adoption of the index to be seen as, as a as a valid thing. You know where, where you can go, and you can get numbers that you that are be valuable if you're looking for you know what happened the last 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, can I? Can I find this podcast for

sure? You know all of these things. It's taken years now to do that for individuals and have all the individual content producers, I don't know. I mean, I don't know there was pod ping made things a lot easier for us and having big hosting companies jump in. But you know, you literally have to have everybody retool for this. I It seems like a really heavy lift.

I'm talking about here. So this idea of pod ID or pod chaser or IMDb or anything like that, those are just other centralized sources of information that maybe does need to be centralized, but then we're trying to make it fit in with a decentralized system. I'm sorry. Russell has put in some more information since I last looked at podcast index dot social about this, and

he's so I've got a little bit more background here. He he's saying that they use pod ping, they watch pod ping, and then they just parse feeds that come through with POD ping, and that's how they look for new person tax. That's cool. That's a great use of pod ping. A like that is great. And again, it's so efficient. You're not not having to go back and, you know, just like scrape, scrape the whole universe every all the time. Perfect. Perfect. And

Daniel J Lewis on here. So I'm typing Daniel J and then it's gonna search pod, pod id.org, in the background, and find some some hits. They're like, Oh yeah, that's, that's him. So I hit it. And then it pulls in and just base, because it already has seen your person tag on other places. It's gonna give you options to just go ahead and pop that right into your new to

your new episode tonight, like that. That's cool. Yeah, Daniel J. Lewis: that's providing a service, an agency level service, to these providers, so that the providers can make an easier experience for the podcasters. I'm all for that doesn't listen

that they control. So, I mean, as long I think it's cool, man. I mean, I don't know that we Ness. I don't know that we have to change the person tag. I

could, you can recreate this this way. Daniel J Lewis has two sort of identities that he wants to use. One is as maybe a, you know, a podcast consultant, and another one is, in his personal capacity, his consultant identity is has a specific href

and a specific by a pig avatar and the name Daniel J Lewis. His personal capacity has a different href, a different picture URL, and also the exact same name, Daniel J Lewis, though, if you just hash the entire tag, minus the minus the the role, if you just hash those three things, the name, the picture, URL and the href, you get a unique you get two different values. One is going to be his personal, and one's

going to be his professional. And you could very much pump that in, you know, into a centralized service like pod id.org, and then, and then, when somebody tries to find Daniel J Lewis, they'll see both of those identities, and they'll just choose the one that's appropriate. Like, I don't, I don't know that we necessarily need to add another attribute to the person tag. Is what I'm saying? No, I'm with you. Do you agree, Daniel, or is that? Am I crazy?

Daniel J. Lewis: I could maybe see something like a directory listing, because there is the idea of, well, should the person Tag link to this person's website, or link to something that does point out other places where they've been. But then again, that's what the person tag is supposed to do, because the podcast app should see that and then be able to link to

other places. So even like right now, do we have the ecosystem where the podcast app, if I'm in podcast guru and I see Dave Jones in the app on an episode I'm listening to, and I tap on your name, is that going to take me to a whole list of other podcasts you've been on? The apps would probably have to process all of that themselves, unless they use a third party service. So I kind of see what he's doing as maybe a service

for the developers. And maybe there is the possibility of blinking something inside of the feed in the person tag, because

how otherwise would I can take podcast guru. How would podcast guru know how to discover all of those other episodes if you're linking to podcast index.org and your person tag, but you could then add this pod ID or something else as an additional attribute that is, in a way, it's like the publisher feed, but for the person, in a sense, and that then makes it so much easier for the app developers to instantly populate that list of everywhere else this person has been.

I think, I think what, as I'm listening to you talk, I feel like, what. So there's still room here. So you have, you have Russell's service, which is meeting this, this, this need. He's, you know, again, he's a hosting company. So he's, this is a service that he would, you know, that he wants, and that fits that use case. This guy's obviously got other use cases too, but I think that's a great fit for that type

of thing. But then I feel like there's also this other possibility, still, there's still a need for just a flat out, just a flat list that exists somewhere that's doing the thing that I mentioned a while ago, and sort of the thing that you're talking about, Daniel, where you have just, just a flat JSON list, yay, JSON of of name, you know, name and attribute and hash, and then when this, when you know when an app or some service wants to just look up when they see

something, they can just match hashes. Like, I don't know that the hash just has to be in the tag. You know, that's the thing. Daniel J. Lewis: The hash could change too. You get one character off on a URL, like just a trailing slash, yes or no, and the hash will be different. Well, that's

what happened. That's what Okay, so initially, Russell posted back and said, That's why I initially was not seeing any any hits, is because the the URL in the href that I've always used has been an HTTP link, and he his service required HTTPS.

potential matches. And so for each one, I can choose, do I want to sort of tag myself as this is a an appropriate hit to be returned into pod id.org, API, and I think that's a great way to do it, because that gives me some control. I don't have to, because since, because these are hits, what, what this has done, I think, is matched up my email address with what was in the feed, and that he's not including those by default, which I think is, again, the right choice. I can choose

whether to associate myself with that or not. The person tag match was, was an instant hit, and it went right into the API. I don't know. I like it. I like it a lot.

We with kindness, don't she only I can't believe it. With your

fact, one just came in from booberry. Whoa, 30,003 SATs, which is a nice Palindrome, and he has a link here to the split kit with some video. Oh, all right, I gotta check this out first. Are

can take a look at that. And I have no idea what I'm looking at right now, but you know that it's good stuff, because these guys are crazy. 2222 from cole McCormick, speaking of centralized versus decentralized, I had a meeting with Zach from indie hub. Ah, yes. His vision is to be the center of the new model for fundraising and distributing movies and TV, while using decentralized tools and tags to enable that. Yes, I like Zach a lot. I think he's got he's on a

good path there. I put my short film, the break in on there, and people can use the site to watch it, support it. And I enabled the odd the option to distribute with RSS. Ah, he's doing hosting too. The cinema side of podcasting seems to need a centralized thing to show people what's possible. Well, sometimes you do need that. That's cool. I'll take a look at that salty crayon 1111, Adam and Dave. I look at the AI as parody. If it

makes me laugh, I play it. But the voice that sounds like JCD using a. Intro, boots on the ground and subs in the water and the bunker, voice for music, and then it gets put into the AI sludge bucket. Okay, let us know. Triple seven. Boost from Chad F Thank you, Chad. 1776 freedom. Boost from salty crayon hero boardroom, a little V for V. Housekeeping. Fountain looks like the value time splits is on the fritz again, with not time

stamping the music and artists and fountain artists. If it's not in the index, don't promote the legacy apps you if you want to earn crackers, stay on Spotify and wave Lake. He says, we can get an organized list that says music, podcasts and podcasts separate from each other. Hold on a second. Can we get an organized list that says music podcasts and podcasts separate from each other, from the last boardroom. Yes, more V for V wallets. Jesus take the wheel. This is off the rails in

the pipe. Go podcasting. Yeah, whoa, he

looking for we're looking for people doing stuff. It's time, talent and treasure. Daniel J Lewis, you're part of that, man, Daniel J. Lewis: thank you. I've been a fan of this ever since the beginning. You might remember that I heard you mention it on no agenda, and I immediately emailed you, and I was like, whatever you're doing, I want to be part of it. And did I email you back, or did I show on you?

Oh, I did. You Daniel J. Lewis: emailed me back. Wow, it wasn't like the first time that we met. It might have been for me, like, Who's this guy? Daniel J. Lewis: Do you want to hear that story briefly? Sure.

So it's a two part story here, very brief. You know Jen Briney, host of congressional dish, I do years ago, back when I was married, I was at what was the night of the Podcast Awards, the first time I won a podcast award, and at the party after the award, Jen Briney came up to me, and she was just gushing with fangirlism because she said, You taught me everything I

know about podcasting. I wouldn't be podcasting if it wasn't for you, like just showering all of this praise on me to the point that I started to feel a little awkward and like I tried to hold up my left hand, showing you know I am married, and I could tell she was married. I kind of tried to gesture my wife to be over closer to me, and it was just like this. Now, of course, she didn't mean any of that. She was

just such a fan girl. Well, so fast forward. Then, I think, two years later, New Media Expo, the last New Media Expo, the one that had the podcast award, horrible disaster there, and Adam was there, and Adam, I got to meet you afterward, and I was having my own, like, fangirling moment, because that was the first time I'd met you in person. And, like, I just Oh, so much did Adam show