Episode 194: Freak Off Friday

Podcasting 2.0 for September 20, 2024, episode 194, it's a freak off Friday. Hello everybody. It is Friday once again. And boy, we are in a good mood because Fridays are always good days. It is time for the one and only board meeting of

man, the the beef milkshake today is just not. It's just not happening. It's not. You're not feeling it. It's it's not. There's no beef in it. That's the

problem. What do you just have chocolate powder or what? That doesn't sound right? No,

it's like. So I got this new I got a new flavor. I like, branched out away from the chocolate and went with the vanilla. Yeah, and it's just No, it's not good. Vanilla

beef just doesn't sound good to me. So not good. Vanilla beef,

it is not good. And so I've like, I'm just trying to, like, I tried to force it in, and it wasn't happening. So now I'm just, I'm just have whey protein, and then, and then I tried to put, like, something in there to spice it up. Because, just because I the milk I use for it is this, like, low sugar, you know, milk that's been and so it's like, high, it's like a high protein milk, yeah, so I go the high protein milk creatine, and

you got cretin, cretin I got,

I got cretins in my shake. And then I got some, just some whey protein isolate in there. And, like, none of that has any flavor whatsoever, because you've even taken the sugar out of the milk, yeah? So it just tastes like drinking chalk. And here's,

you know, what you could do to spice it up, little bit of bourbon. Just, just for the board meeting, yeah? Just for the board meeting. Just for the board meeting, just for the board meeting. Just little nip babies. No problem.

Nip from the putt from the pocket flask, yep.

Oh man,

I put, what I did was I put a I put a yogurt in there with it and shit, and blended that up. And that's not what I thought it was gonna be. No, no, it's even worse. Now I'm just like, forcing it down.

Oh, nasty. So what you got on your list, brother, we only have an hour and a half today because you said I got it hard out, kind of hard out, you know, get back. Can't stay in the board meeting too long. Got a hard out. It's in summer. Hours are over. It's done, it's gone, it's toast.

It's done. Let's see. What do I have? Well,

maybe I can ask you a question, just because I didn't understand

this to my notes, okay, yeah, flip to your notes.

What is the conversation about podcast images and why don't I understand it?

That is in my notes, my notes right under making a podcast with Google notebook. LLM, LM, via CSB, yeah,

which is also fun, yes. Um, yeah.

So that's, well, I've got which one. What do you want to do?

You want to talk about images, but whatever you want, it's up to you.

What is your understanding of image? Of the image thing, because this is namespace talk, by the way. Oh,

and now it's time for some hot names. That's right, we're sizzling up your Friday right off the bat. We're not waiting. We're not mate, we're not teasing you with the hot name space talk. We give it to you right away.

Five minutes in, we're already in the namespace. This is a record, baby, hot

name, space talk.

Well, you're selling it now.

Well, because I saw, you know, I saw a post, and then I saw Stephen B come back and say, Well, I only do, I do single, not multiple. And then I'm like, I recognize this, because if I go to sovereign feeds, there is a tab for images, and you can add images, and I've never and for the episodes for the podcast and and so I'm like, well, maybe it has something to do with that, that I can add extra images and and then I was like, You know what? I'm lazy. I'm just gonna ask Dave,

thanks. First of all, I need to kill the oh, gosh, I've got like 200 tabs open in this browser. This is gonna crash my computer. This. Trend I gotta get,

I get the, get the jingle ready for you for the boot, yeah,

successfully closed every time clean feed.

Now is this Linux that crashes with so many tabs open? Yeah, yeah, because that sounds wrong. Doesn't sound right. But

you know, Ubuntu with a lightning Node running, you know, in 27 containers is, I mean, it's not the most stable thing in the world. So, okay, you know, I mean, the whole computer doesn't crash. It's more like the the windows crash the window manager. But, um,

oh, because that's totally okay. Yeah,

it's fine. It's just like, it's like, your rodecaster Having to reboot it. It's fine.

It's all Linux, baby, just the drivers. It's always the drivers.

It's Linux all the way down. Well, okay, so we've got, the long and short of it is we have, we have competing proposals. We have a fight Bruin, uh oh,

a name, nerd fight, namespace fight, nerd fight, nerd fight.

No, it's, uh it's, it's kind of competing proposals, but not really like I think it's so here, here's what is here. So here's what's going on. We want to add, many people want to add banners, some sort of idea of a banner image that

can be used for other for things, for things,

things, yeah. So, you know, like one, one good example of social media. Social media needs. They they like banners. They like you to have you used to it was just like you had your avatar, right? And you put it on a gravatar or whatever. Yes, gravity, remember graviton? Sure. I think it's still, I'm sure, it is. And so you just have an avatar for various things in your social in your social graph.

Um, just threw up in my mouth. Yes, my social accomplished. Yeah, yeah, well done. Well done. Well played, sir.

Now you like, I'm not sure which one was the first to do this. Which social context is, what may have been Facebook. I think Facebook has always had this idea of adding in this extra thing that's a banner, and so it like goes, sort of like

happened to the skyscraper? Remember that skyscraper? Yeah, the skyscraper was a banner, a vertical banner on the side that was sold to some inventory. Oh, we've got a skyscraper on the side. Don't you remember those? A banner ad turned rotated 90 degrees.

Okay, so, so the, I remember the masthead, you know, image or whatever. But not, I don't know about the skyscraper, so you've got, you've got this idea that that we want to put into the feed, and this would help with all kinds of things, like, like pod page,

yeah, for sharing stuff is what we kind of what we were talking about is sending extra stuff along with your feed that can be used in to fill up your MySpace page. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.

And, and then, okay, so you can take this farther, and it has been proposed in in the past, in the issues like two year two, maybe even three years ago, it was proposed that they're like, that you could, we could implement, like, an entire, like, style guide, or whatever, inside the the feed, so you have, like, Okay, this, this podcast has this color palette that it that It always uses for its, you know, right

you doing to my art? Man,

yeah, hey, screw you. I'm not gonna, like, let you style my that's

not gonna happen. No, yeah.

And then there's also, there's, there's, there's the the knee jerk of that, but there's also the, just the realistic difficulties of, okay, my app uses, my app needs to now calculate like contrasting colors so it knows what text to overlay on top of this other thing. Right? Just, it's a big mess. I mean, it's, it would be great. It in in cons. This is one of those things that the concept is, is really good. And

three color and be consistent, uh huh, and

still be readable. And also that, yeah, even they couldn't do it right. And they got the best designers ever. So it's a big mess, so, but that's a side that's a side tangent, so that the matter at hand is the banner stuff. And you can say, Okay, how could you solve how could you solve that problem? And in asking that question, you've there's been sort of two ideas proposed, one by Nathan gathri, one by Russell from pod

He's the SAM Sethi of hosting companies, apparently.

So he created a new tag called podcast colon banners, or podcast colon banner. Banner, no, it banners, I'm sorry, banners. And then in there he's got a tag, like in this, this is a parent node for a tag, a parent tag for it, for a podcast banner, tag that defines a a source, so you know, URL to an image, right? A mind,

Oh, okay. Oh, so it can be video. Could be a video banner and

an aspect ratio.

Okay, by the way, so far, I'm on board with the idea.

And if it's and if it's a, if it's a video, it also has a length attribute, right? Um, now this is fine. I don't really have a problem with with this. I like sort of semantically pleasing tags like this. You know, we all want to be semantically pleasing in our lives, and this is this fits this

man. If I could be semantically pleasing to my wife, I'd have it made a good life.

If you figure out how, give me, shoot me a text, yeah? Because I need that in my own life as

well. I'll do a blast on the social a blast,

yeah, put us on blast. So he, I mean, he's, he's not only defined the tag. He's doing it. I mean, he's just running. He's running with some some humongous scissors. So you have that, then you have a competing proposal which uses an exit, which just modifies the existing images tag. You know, this is the one that that James cridlin gets heartburn from

because no one uses it and he wants it out. Yeah, right, right.

So podcast, colon images is has been in the spec forever, for a long time, yeah, and pod LP app already uses it. Currently is defined this way. So can I ask? Yeah,

maybe in your in your definition, give the example of how pod LP uses it. Because I currently have, in our feed, I have, let me just make sure I'm saying it right. We have episode image URL and podcast image URL.

You don't have a tag in our feed called podcast colon images. Hold on.

Let me see,

sir Spencer says he uses podcast images. Okay? Images. You hand code your feed though, sir Spencer, right.

We do not have that, okay, no, but I think I'm looking at Sovereign feeds. I think sovereign feeds is just set up to do it because, because it also says, it says default image URL synced with podcast metadata, which, okay, not sure what that means, but okay, I

don't know either. No, all right. No, I I have a standing rule to never look at sir Spencer's images on anything that's right, absolutely you don't have to tell me,

though that idea, I. Um,

so the podcast images tag was based on the html5 source set, syntax, src, s, e, t, that's an attribute that's in the html5 image tag where you can say you can define a source set and say, and then you can have multiple images defined in the same attribute. So instead of just a source, you can have a source set. And that source set is, is a is an array delimited by commas, where each member of the array is a URL in a space, and then the horizontal width of the image in pixels,

okay, and that's what Stephen Bell was talking about. He his his stuff wouldn't take an array, I guess, or whatever,

something like that. And so the one thing that has been misunderstood, and James, this is a misunderstanding that James has, is looking at that source set and saying, okay, then it can only, I've heard him say this multiple times, that it means that the images have to be square, because you're saying this image is a 1500 about 1500 this image is 600 by 600 that's not that's not the case the the source set defines the URL and the width. It doesn't define the height in the source set. Yes,

I see that.

So it can be, it doesn't have, they don't have to be square images. They just that's, that's a misunderstanding. So the the currently, the images tag is based on that terminology. Excuse me, that that that pro sort of standard within html5 and that's standard is in use in browsers. I mean, it's a supported thing. So the idea was, we can just take this, you know, this would be an easy, an easy pickup for people who, under already understands, you

Yeah. I mean, I can see why, of course,

and rather than creating a new tag called banner,

right? Yeah, because there can be all kinds of images, you know, might be a funny way images, promo video. I mean, it's kind of a whacked out way of describing. Driving an image, which isn't an image, it's a video, but I guess you could use that, right?

Yeah, a dog's hell in it.

They just that was your dog. I thought it was my dog. I was your dog.

No, it's not okay. I think a fire truck one button and he started hell. Yeah, there's, but I'm gonna play devil's advocate against myself here, though, the the there's one you know, Russell is, is attracted to the semantics of having a tag called podcast banner, and I understand why. It's because, you know, if you think like a machine, then if you have a tag that is that just says podcast images, and it has an and one of the images defined in there has an aspect ratio of

perhaps the description, the description is wrong. I mean, a banner is a description and an aspect ratio, you know? I mean, whereas I might have an image that I determined to be a social media share image, or an image that I intend to, you know, I want this at the top of something. So therefore it's a banner. You know what I mean? Is it A, is that the descriptor is wrong?

Yeah, like, because some, well, some banners could be like, not all, none, like blues. So the ones I know of, Facebook, Twitter has a banner idea, Mastodon has a banner idea. Blue sky. I mean, a lot of these social media things, and I'm sure immediately there would be use amongst things like podpage and and hosting company websites, maybe even sites like

I think that's the same point, not not breaking anything or or unnecessarily adding a new tag when we could shoehorn it into an existing one,

right, right? And so I think that that that stands on its own as a way to do this, the banner thing is harder because, I mean, I like the idea, but I think it just needs, I think it needs some more discussion about whether or not the banner there might be. A different way to do it. So let me see what I'm trying to say here. So instead of defining the banner and it ended up in it ending up just being a different version, like it looks exactly like images, except it just has a different

MIME type, URL, aspect ratio, no,

no, no, no. So you have, you have a you have a each images tag has an ID, equals ID equals 1577, right, right, right. And then you have a banner tag that says banner. It's got one attribute that says ID equals 1577, and you know that that image is the banner got it.

I mean, like, instead of just using the word, instead of just using the word banner, we'll use a code for it.

Well, it's kind of like, it's kind of like what you do in HTML, where you say, where each HTML tag or element can have an ID associated with it, and so then sometimes you say, sometimes you have, like, a label tag in HTML, and you say, four equals this other band, this other HTML tag, and so you know that this this label goes with this checkbox, okay, okay. And so the same thing could be done here. You could have banner four equals and then the ID that references the image tag that

easier in programming at the other end,

I think so. I think so, because you know you're barring that, the barring that, the only other thing I can which that seems a little convoluted, because the other straightforward way to solve this would just be to have another attribute on the images tag that says, like, use like,

From a feed creation standpoint, to me, it seems more logical to say this is a banner. This is a promo video. This is a headshot. You know, there's a million different things I could come up with,

yeah, I mean this, yeah, yeah, I think so. Because then you could also, like, grab sorry. Then you could also tie it to, if we do it this way, and you just and you have the ability to drop a generic image batch into the feed and then give it and then sort of tie it to some use case that's pretty powerful, versus just having a thing that says banner, and that's the only thing It can ever do, is just be a banner, okay? That, I mean, so it's like a

combo. It's like you have some attributes, but then you also have equals banner,

yeah, yeah, attribute, like a purpose equals, or above all, sounds like

something that we could argue about on GitHub for a couple months.

I think, I think, as it stands now, the enhancement stuff is is good enough on its own to just adopt that. And I think the banner thing is a different discussion. Okay, I like adding an attribute because I think that solves everybody's problem. An extra attribute, but I will let Russell tell me where I'm wrong.

Okay, so can we table this for now?

We can. I want to say one more thing,

okay, Steve.

I mean, I'm creating an iPhone. I want to say one, just one, just throw one more thing in, and it's just another thing about, about the naming. And that was another aspect of what Russell was saying. Just to give a quick recap on my, on, on, on, my opinion about naming things is, I don't think for developers that name, that names of things matter, right? And it's because, it's because nut is for the exact reason that Dave Weiner says. And rules for standard makers. These are all

Thank you. Thank you. You know, good point.

This is all just stuff. Nobody knows what any of this stuff is until they need to know it, and then they go learn it. So I just don't think it's a problem, okay, all right. I mean, I feel like, I feel like that's enough to go on and then, and then Nathan said he's gonna, he said he's gonna throw the purpose attribute in there, into the proposal, and then we can follow we can just, like, pick that up on GitHub. Okay,

excellent. Hey, good work, guys.

It could work. We got through it. Or I'm closing out the segment. There you go. And now it's time ending in space. Done? Everybody have a cigarette. It's all over. It's done. There we go.

Now, you just kicked the ball back up in the air. Now we're reopened it again.

Quick update, just on wallet stuff. Oscar sent us a note. He says he'll have a an OAuth type demo this weekend. Hopefully they say this weekend. I think he said this weekend? Yeah, I think so. Chad,

don't do that. Don't say 60 minutes left. You're stressing me out. I'm

moving things along here. It's like we got to stop with the stupid namespace talk. I got other things to discuss with you. So, yeah, I believe so Oscar reached out and he says, this weekend, we'll see when it's ready. It's all good, because that's a demo we're all looking forward to. On that note, do you have a final final yet from Zebedee on

Heard from Zach over there today, and he was just asking if I had set up a developer account stuff yet, which I have Okay, and he we're just gonna, he just wants to help me fast track and get get all that so I can play with the API. But I don't, I have not heard back from them whether they finalized any of their stuff they I think, I think what

well, we made that very clear to them. We said, there's no money here, yeah, yeah, there's very little money. Yeah,

okay, you know. But they're doing real work with all this, you know. And they have real calls, so I think they're just trying to figure out how to make it accessible to the developers that, yeah, so that's going to take some time. And we're

asking, we're asking these parties to give us a, you know, like a one sheet, so we can just say, here's how you implement it, which, of course, would come along with some namespace additions, although we kind of have the, Ellen URL name, I think that's all. Is that already in the in the the value tag, we already put that in. Yeah, it's in. Okay. Then we have staying on the wallets for a second. We had a chat with the folks from light spark. Oh,

yeah. Do you want to like, Yeah,

I'll try and explain it. First of all, it was very interesting, because it reminded me so much of calls I used to make when I was trying to sell internet, basically, to to companies. And, yeah, I had, the salesperson was just landed at the airport. She's in the car on the call, and then she runs into the conference room, and the two other guys are talking and and then, you know, this is all great, and it's, it'll be ready

something where you have to send a picture of yourself from your phone holding a sign that says, My name is Dave Jones, yeah, stuff

like that, exactly. So the the whole flow is your financial institution through plaid into what's that thing called, their

RTP? No,

you just meant, yeah, but you just mentioned 00, hash, and then into the Yuma, and then they're doing the transfer over lightning and then the other end. Of course, it can go to a lightning address, or it can go into into another Yuma address, which then reverses the flow and goes back up and

but the you can always roll your own,

yeah, exactly. That's what I like, because it interrupts with everything else. So it would be a very easy option. And we asked for them for the same, you know, can you give us a and they said they would have some kind of OAuth

Well, my So, my understanding was the flow would be something like this would be you, you would so, so a Yuma looks like it looks like an email address, like a lightning address, except it has a little dollar sign in the beginning. That's the first character, right, right? That's how you know it's a Yuma, a universal money address. And so the Yuma thing, like, you would go to Yuma, not me, and then you would go through a process like you do with like, plaid.

In fact, they're literally using plaid. Yeah, they're

using plaid to associate the universal money address with a bank account, and then you have this second step in what they showed us, where it prompts you to like, what do you want to be able to do with this? With this connection? Do you want it to be able to deduct funds? Credit funds? Yeah. Permission, permissions. That permissions, yeah. I mean, just like you do with plaid. Well, like Venmo.

It's like connecting it to Venmo. It's the same thing as connecting PayPal or Venmo. And remember, PayPal was also now saying that they're going to start accepting bitcoin and passing it right through in Fiat. I don't know if they're going to do lightning, but I think it's pretty fair to say everyone's moving in this direction.

Everybody is that own chain that's on chain. I don't

know on chain for sure, but they can't be competitive without offering a lightning solution. Everyone's offering lightning now all the exchanges offer lightning, you know, up to certain number. Ounce, obviously, for liquidity issues, if they want, if they want to be competitive. PayPal will also offer lightning, which will and because it's passed through into Fiat, that will finally put no agenda on the V for V train, because Dvorak is okay with it,

like I haven't seen any No, there's

no announcement yet. No, no, there's no announcement. Yeah, okay, okay. They're calling their their partners because they're okay, because they're also Yeah. And there's two reasons they called. One is, hey, we're going through a whole new link scheme, and pretty soon all your old links will be dead. Yay. Please fix something that wasn't broke.

What? Why would you ever No, I don't, no

problem. It's, it's, it's baffling to me. So they're gonna train, they're gonna train us on what to do. You know, hey, we're gonna, you know, it's like, like, I'll be training. We're gonna onboard you into the new system, so the old system apparently will break.

That's great. Yes, yeah. Okay, so you, I guess the idea there would be that you would get a Bitcoin, some sort of Bitcoin receiving address, a wallet address, and then anything that comes into that wallet just immediately shows up in your PayPal balance. Correct, correct, correct. See, okay, so you know, we can do own chain easily with the value block, yeah,

but I'm telling you, we don't. Yes, we could. If

I'm saying like that, that should be an option. Because, okay, yeah, it takes a few it takes a little bit, it takes a few minutes. Can take a couple hours to verify sometimes. But, I mean, I'm not against it. I'm not against you know that if, if it comes to adoption, I mean, own chain, to me, is fine, if it gets over the adoption threshold.

Eric PP is already scratching his head about, what do I do with helipad now

I'm screwed.

Well, I mean, you know, fees and there's a lot of stuff to consider timing because, yeah. I mean, depending on what you put in your your V bite fee, you know, is it always going to be fastest? Will you get an option, you know, to say, Well, it's, you know, it's 60, you know, 60 SATs per V byte right now. No, please don't send it this moment. You know, there's all kinds of things to take into account there, but it can be an option for sure. Yeah,

I mean, it's, in fact, I

would put that under the funding tag.

That's where I'd put that the funding tag, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're right. I think you're right. That's better you put it under the funding tag and because then you can say, Okay, I'm gonna send you. I'm gonna send you five grand.

Yes, well, this is Dvorak's hope. He's like, Yeah, we can take Bitcoin. There's always gonna be someone who's gonna send us a whole Bitcoin. Say, Okay, John, yeah, that's fine. It's gonna happen. He hasn't gotten into the micro payment headspace yet, but

we'll work on him. He doesn't understand Bitcoin culture.

No, no, he doesn't

that ain't happening.

Then I had a preliminary call with clicks, C, l, i, x, and we're having another call on Tuesday, and I'm we're looking at them as basically a podcast app. They have a this is a whole bunch of ex TiVo guys who and TV guide people, and they understand how to promote stuff. So it'd be discovery type app. And the cool thing about that is they're in 600,000 hotel rooms, and so we're gonna have a call and see

yeah, it was pod to Russell and pod two. They're also just started firing up pod pings. So cool. Ping is still growing, and, and, and Alex's pod ping, Damon just keeps clicking along about let it run for, I guess, a week now. Nice. This thing's solid as a rock. That's in rust.

That's the rust deal. It's

in Russ, yeah. And he's, he's, he's gonna add, he's adding a bunch of features. He's, hasn't opened it. He has not opened up the repo yet, but he's going to, once he fills this it's solid. And one of the features he's adding is, is a direct to object storage, so you could store these things, but yeah, with it'll just write straight to s3

in the in the folder structure, right? Year, Month, Day. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah, I only have one other thing, but we can. It's a, what we're talking about, you know, the specialized platform players, stuff. I've had some more thoughts on that. But do you want to do the notebook LM stuff first?

I mean, I didn't. I mean, I don't have a lot on that. I was just like, I don't, I've been, I guess the reason I threw it on my on my notes, is because I've been. I had a reason to resurrect my mid journey account the other day, because I was just, you

were looking, you needed, you needed an image, and so you turned to computer generated imagery. CGI, not AI, CGI.

That turned to CGI. I needed a, I needed a decent logo for this side project that we're doing. Because I just, I'm like, I can't look at this piece of crap anymore.

I saw it,

yeah, and so I So, I was like, Okay, well, I started playing around with different, you know, with different you know, with different things and the it just, it just struck me how sort of crazy all this is. Did you? Did you? But, like, as you use it, you realize you see entropy at work. Entropy is you, yeah, like the idea, I think it's, was it the second, second law of thermodynamics, all, all systems run down, you know, all

Okay? Yes.

So like you can, you can say, you know, if you leave, if you leave your car sitting on the road and never touch it, 1000 years from now, it's, it's going to be just a pile of rust. Yes, everything, everything runs, all systems is eventually run down. And so you can just see this. You can see this whole process at work with these generative AI tools, the only thing keeping them from just dying of their own entropy is the fact that they're being guard, railed and propped up by

yes, yeah, that's true. So

like the A good example that I heard a long time ago was, and this is, this is a, this is sort of an argument against against evolution, meaning an evolution that term being defined as ascent through modification, not not descent, ascent, so that you get progressively more and more complicated organisms that can do more and more things through a process of evolutionary ascent, right? But

it's, it's devolute, devolizing is devotee is going down,

yeah. And the the argument against that is, imagine you have an airplane, and stacked in that airplane, you have 50,000 index cards, yeah. And you push all those index cards out of the plane, and somehow between 20,000 feet and the ground, if they all organize themselves to spell out Adam curry on the on the interstate. Okay, that we all know instinctively, that that would never happen, you know. But the the evolutionary argument is, oh, well, you just

Yeah, yeah. You just put more more data centers in, more power, more chips, more nuke power, yeah. Or

you just do it more times. Instead of doing it once. You do, you know, you you do the plain index card thing 2 billion times. Well, it doesn't matter how many times you do it, you're never going to get you're never going to get a quote from Shakespeare out of index cards falling on the ground from 20,000 feet. It's just not because all systems run down. We just know that this is the case. And that's the way this works, with with with generative AI as well, like every time you hit

real art. You know. Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely, it's

been trained on other people's effort, you know. So you get something pretty good, but then you have these little buttons so you get like four, you get a quad matrix that has like four quadrants in it, 1234, and you say, Okay, I want this quadrant three. I like this image. So give me variations of this image so you can say very and it'll run it back through the model again and try to come up with variants of this. The more times you keep doing that, this thing gets worse and worse

right? Yeah, incestuously is the right term, but you get very weak children that can't walk,

right, right? And so this, this whole thing reminded me of a discussion I think I heard on ATP where in and I've I ended up finding it on Tom's Hardware, where they were taught, where Apple Apple intelligence, the forthcoming Apple intelligence, somebody leaked the prompts that they're using under the covers. Yeah. So for all, for each one of these use cases, like, they have one use case that says apple. It's in Apple photos where you can say, you know, Hey, Siri, tell

So, those are the those. Those are the pre prompts. That's the the setup where you set the model up for the input from the user.

Yes, exactly. And so basically, you're telling the model ahead of time you you're not allowed to do any, to do anything that is to write the story that is religious. What, if you, what, if you're a Muslim and you went to Mecca,

no mecca for you,

should I add a lug man? Like, sorry, I mean, what is he gonna say? Is it gonna say? Like, oh, the sand was beautiful on this trip. Like, what is it gonna say? You know, it's just also this is also this in this goes back to this, like you're, you're just trying to put guardrails, yeah, yeah, on this, on on a, on a process that is naturally tied intricately to, to an intro to an entropic process. And you're trying to keep it propped up by

doing that, so not letting it devolve by keeping the guardrails

in place. And there's another, there's another prompt that says, I

gotta find this article, by the way, you got to send that to me. Yeah, I'll

send it to you. There's another, another prompt. This says, um, was Oh. It says, that's what it is. It says, do not produce. It gives a whole bunch of parameters. Here's what, here's what I want you to do. And at the end of it, it says, Please give me valid please make the output valid JSON. Do not use bad JSON. What does that mean? This is the point we've come to, where we're, we're, you know, like we're saying we're having to tell the computer don't give me

Wow.

Um. Well, have you heard, have you heard dead internet theory? Do you know this? Yes, yes,

where we're only talking to bots at the end of the day, and there's no one real anymore.

I mean, I don't think that's very crazy.

No, I think we're already there to a degree. I see it all the time on x. I'm like, Okay, that's a bot, that's a bot, that's a bot. Yeah, anything username with this whole string of numbers suspicious? You're probably a bot

in the I think, I think that the thing I didn't realize about that whole theory, or whatever you want to call it, is that supposedly they're like, part of the theory is that this all happened, like, cross the tipping point in like 2016 there was, like this date where, where it became. There was more bots online, yeah, interacting with each other than humans. And then when I'm like, Oh yeah, yeah, I can see that. I bet you that's

true. To take it to podcasting. So comics, your blogger through the transcript from the most recent no agenda episode into notebook LM and those two voices, the only voices they have apparently created a summary of that episode, which was actually quite interesting. It shows a three and a half hour episode, they created a eight minute summary, and there was some really funny mistakes in there.

Do you have that? Can you play it? Yeah? CSP,

I haven't heard this, yeah. CSB, posted it. Hold on a second, if

you played it yesterday on no agenda, no, no, no,

no, no. John actually said he wanted to hear more of those wacky podcasts. I said, Really, you want to hear more of that? Here we go. All right, everyone

buckle up, because today we're really diving deep into something pretty wild. I mean, this sounds like it could be straight out of a spy movie, but sadly, it's the real deal. Sounds intriguing. What's the topic today? We're talking asymmetrical warfare, but not the kind you typically expect. More along the lines of

this is pretty interesting, because you can hear breath.

Oh yeah, no, they've got UMS in there. No, the voices are well done. I'm impressed with the voices, although this back and forth. Now, it's like in a podcast, you have to have someone filling every single space with, yeah, okay, yeah, interesting. Oh yeah, two gadgets

and international intrigue, exploding gadgets. Now that's something you don't hear every day. You got that right? We're taking a deep dive into a recent episode of this. You

got that right? Bob, yeah. Listen,

listen for a second cast. Episode 1696, to be precise. Adam curry and John C Dvorak, by

the way, perfect pronunciation of Dvorak that I've not. Ever heard that in an AI so far,

you know those guys who can sniff out a media narrative from a mile away? Well,

yeah, I know them. Oh yeah, I know them. They could sniff out a media narrative from a mile away.

Now, where did they get that from? Well,

that's what's interesting, is how you know, is it, obviously, it's from words and phrases. That's why I said they're they're generally quite positive, got their fingers

on the pulse of what's really going on, even if it's a little out there. Sometimes. What did they unearth this time? Well, this episode aired on September 19, 2024 and let me tell you, it's been on my mind ever since. It all starts with some really strange

you need a life

that I could do with that. Okay, so have you ever used GarageBand? Yeah, sure. Okay, so you know how, in the in the drummer, the the virtual drummer, how you can dial it up from like a one to 10 of how much you want that guy to freak out and play? Phil, yes, between those, that's

exactly what it is. Is that? Algo Yes. Phillip,

we need this.

But you know, so it doesn't give you any of the nuance, any of the details, certainly none of the humor. Because I know that. I know that there's humor in our show, yeah, but I can see where we have a large segment of the population and they'll get bored of it, but who are just starve for info, feed me information. That's why people listen at 1.5 they want to get more information more. So we listen to another podcast, listen more and listen I need more. Need more and more, and

There we go. The reason, the reason I, you know, and you know what those are the same people. I think that, think along the lines of what caused me to originally bring this, bring this up about the entropy aspect, is because I think, and I think nerds fall victim to this. All all of us do in the

300 billion, it would be that much better. It did,

the search somehow would be better. Yeah, no, that's not true. It would be worse. Yeah. This same with podcasting. If, if you just had more podcasts, you would have better, like, be able to find we know this is not true. It makes everything harder, not better. Yeah,

so I want to talk about that because I have some thoughts about our previous conversation, and I'm just looking at the clock because everyone's all all jacked up and nervous about having to get you out on time. It's, it's very it's very unnerving. It really is. You know, people are posting only 30 minutes left. Oh my god. We got to hurry up. Got to move this along. Got to get this train. So I also want to play a song. It's a short song. It's a real short song. Only 247, go,

he was fighting for you make the first move, but It's different with you, around your waist don't cost it. I can chase. Show me what I need to. Show me you'll be inside. Take the ball right. Show me what I miss before I mess with you. With me slow and I'll take you where you want to go? Show me what you got, show me what you got. Girl, show me what you got. Show me what you got. Girl, show me what you got. You God, would you say? Hand.

Show me it darfels, disco, swag, and that's what I thought first, as well. Boardroom, I thought, wow, that's like a Bruno Mars song.

Is that TJ singing?

No, I don't think so. Whoa. What happened? No, that's sir Spencer is boosting. He boosted 33,333

No, well, you hit the magic number. Yeah.

They had another less busy mix, which I thought sounded too much like Bruno Mars, but I would recommend Bruno Mars record this song. Oh yeah, that's great. Get the, yeah, that's what. That would put some coin in their pocket,

but you had, but he has to only accept Bitcoin, yeah? Well, obviously,

okay, we don't have a lot of time.

This is, this sucks. No, I hate this. What's okay, never pre announce this again.

Well, but it would be in the back of my mind anyway. You know, you blew your wad on on images.

Well, I mean, how could you not

Whoa, hello. This penny dropped on that one because I was listening to PWR pod news weekly review, power, and so you haven't heard it yet? No, no. But so they were talking about podcast portals, and which is kind of what we were talking about, you know, on the last show. And it was based upon a quote from Rachel Maddow, and I like that. It's based on a quote from Rachel Maddow, because I'm not a fan, really not a fan, but that kind of pushes me to think about, okay, how can we make

none of us actually want that. We all, none of us want meritocracy. We want we want our stuff exactly, exactly.

And, you know, all the big apps, you know, I'm sure Spotify tries to do this. You know, YouTube obviously has their recommendation engine. No one within the sound of my voice will ever be able to create a per user algo that's running non stop and be able to afford it. And, you know, and somehow magically put things in the right place. But as I was saying about podcast apps, maybe it's time for some apps. Maybe you keep your existing app, maybe you make a second version, which

same with true fans that they've chosen specific to focus on, on pay, micro payments, which has alienated some people, but delighted others.

Wavelake, they have an app which is, for all intents and purposes, a podcast app, but they really feature music. Ellen beats is a podcast app that features music and podcasts that play music you see where I'm going, so if your interest is in sports, why not have an app that highlights sports? Podcasts, you know, make some bold decisions. Recommend it has to be something you're interested in that's a developer. Everyone has an

Yeah. So you're, you could, I'm trying to think about this in like a on the ground term, like, if somebody makes a podcast app, they could then make instead of having one app, let's say they did something crazy and made five apps, each with a specific focus.

Well, why make five? Why make one that, you know something about everybody has that. That's the mistake, you know, I think, okay, if there was a, let's keep it very small and very simple. If there was a podcast app that only that you can get anything you want in it. Okay, you can search and you can subscribe to anything you want. But when I open that up, it's saying, Wow, the latest upbeats just dropped. Here's a special

I remember back. I remember back a long time ago. I don't even remember what year this would have been, maybe, I don't know it was. It had to been very early in podcasting. You had, you had radio personalities like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, these kind, these types. And what they did was they had their each had their own app, and you would,

well, without disclosing because it's too early yet, the project we're working on, we're doing exactly that. We're doing exactly what I described on a local basis. Would you agree? Oh, for sure. Okay, it's delighting me. It's delighting me. I'm like, This is so cool. You know, there's, this is an area that I have interest in, and I'm looking at all these

to that's Go ahead. That's like, I. Uh, it, it's like that idea we talked about a few minutes ago, where it the idea that you put more, you make more available, you put more in, you get better results out. Sometimes that's in like, that's just not the case. Like an app and like so true, true fans. When true fans launched, he, he made a decision to launch, I think, with, like, Was it like 5000 podcasts or something like that? Was a very small number initially, at the very at the

I can see, I can see true fans being fans. Okay, so I want to be a fan, and in this case of artists, because Sam's got concert tickets and merch and all this stuff, focus on that. Focus only on that. Be, be excel in that area. And people can always, you can always, I also want to subscribe to, you know, to Tucker Carlson, okay, fine. You can do that. But getting getting something that excites people to use it, I

Oh, yeah, for sure, that's yeah. I mean, like medium, medium centric podcast apps, like we only get, we only do music,

yeah. How about audio books? I mean, there's nothing that says you can't just have an audio book podcast app. Why not? What do you got to lose?

I agree, backslay. I think I think

backslash.

So I agree. I like, I like, yeah, no, I think this is I think this is good. We every something has to break the mold, I think, because we've just got so many apps that look the same and, and I think, I think it's, you know, Oscar did something different, you know, by going all in on on the Bitcoin and Oscar side of Things, true fans did something different with the PWA and activity pub and all these kinds

yes, yes, yes. And so when you So, Rachel Maddow is very liberal, left political talk. So you don't just want to do an MSNBC app. You want to do all kinds of liberal left political talk and run your own algo on what or put your own personality into it, whatever you want to bubble to the top, you know, and have your users be able to create playlists and of episodes and all kinds of things that they and you will get a big audience, I think, much bigger than I'm here, everything for everybody. App,

if somebody created the, if somebody created today, a podcast app that was called Pro prog, prog casts, you know, there was all a bunch of progressive liberal shows, and that's all it was. And they released that on the App Store.

sports gambling. I mean, you name it.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, like, the no agenda community is the same way. I mean, that's, that's a community that is carved out, sort of like, you know that not or like, a borders for itself, where you just like, here's, here's where you know you can, you can list off a dozen shows that are no agenda related shows, and it's just like, is, yep, that could be the same thing.

I'm gonna thank some people so I can get you out kind of on time. Okay, by the way, very bad idea for everyone to keep posting. How many minutes left?

I'm so stressed right now.

Y'all gotta stop. I'm stressed too. 3000 SATs from a Chris, you know, he says on the topic of getting away from mailbox zero podcast apps, I'd give anything for a podcasting 2.0 app that was exactly like an inbox. Move through the queue with swipe actions, quickly assigned episodes to folders, ie playlists, mail rules based on sender text in the title or show

I don't want any of that. I want a big I want a big stream of things coming by. And if something catches my eye, I click it and I listen to it. If I happen to miss something that I would have liked, I'm going to depend on my on a on somebody in my community to send it to me later. 33,333

from Sir Spencer, love that disco swag. He says the dorfels have been at the forefront of the DIY d mu scene, and we love it. D mu for decentralized music.

Jen, stop it. Boober booberry with 3333

does anyone else ever get that itch in the back of their throat that only inevitable heat death of the universe could scratch? Yes, every day. 333. From salty crayon. Keep helipad. Eric. PP, yes, of course, he will. 17,776 from blueberry big freedom. Boost. MP, for his artwork would be amazing. The resolution of the art would be amazing. Clear your schedule, by the way, for Sunday, September 22 tune in after no agenda to catch the satellite skirmish. Autumn rust

I don't know what that means yet. My new flip, flown Lou, yeah, 3000

from Chris. You know, has anyone considered coin os.io as a podcaster. Wallet sign up is just choosing a username, no email needed. Even open source so someone could add in key send or use the lightning address. They give you an A nostr wallet connects like Albi, uses custodial but super easy, slick PWA. Can also send someone a pre funded wallet link that just works, or have to take a look at that and no idea what that is. 6341, from chimp. Life is serious. Life is depressing.

jeez.

And then we got a couple of test boosts, 1000 from Chad F, who was boosting the depressing song, Nate Jonathan, don't worry. 1234, from Dr Scott. Boosts are failing to the boost bot figured, yeah, we fixed that during the show. We opened up a channel. You just run out of liquidity. So the boost bot is back. 1234, from Dr Scott boosty mctess, boost, and I think Did you get the pastor combs, boost, you might not have that one. I'll read it because that's just before the

Yeah, Oscar sent us a message saying that, I mean, it was basically a perfect storm for him. They did a big update. That update had some bugs, and so they went and they fixed the bugs. But then, in the meantime, they deprecated one of the libraries, one of the, like, audio libraries that he was using and they wouldn't. And so he has, he's like, having to, if I understood him correctly, he's having to, in a mad dash, recode part of his audio engine from scratch. Oh, yeah, that's

Mike Dell, Mike Dell clarifies, uh, LLP, live long and prosper. Uh, flip phone is a course s 22 Oh yes, that's a very robust flip phone. We've

got some PayPals. We've got starting off. We've got the guys at bus sprout and the girls there too. They all pitched in and they sent us $1,000

shot caller. 20 is Blaze only, Impala

keeping the 2.0 chimney smoking. Thank you. Thank you both sprouts. Thank you very much.

We need working here. That's right. It's all white smoke.

That's right. Thank you. Thank you very much, very much.

Gene Liverman sent us five bucks and he he is a new subscriber. He did automatic payment. All right, welcome. Is your Defragmenter fully charged? Because we I think you need to

use it again. Yeah, hold on. It's plugged in. Go for

it. Okay? It's uh, OYSTEIN bear, $5 a month, automatic payment.

Thank you. OYSTEIN, appreciate that.

Did I say that name? Right? Was that?

Yeah, oyster lost

my place. Where are we at? Where are we at with booster grams, I got a resort. This is all this is the boardroom

stress. You're stressed. You're stressed. Man, I know you're stressed.

Gene bean, 2222 through cast O Matic, the sad truth is that we've been conditioned to use apps on mobile devices. PWA is just do cut it when trying to onboard so many people today, maybe one day they will, but that day doesn't seem to be today. I'm really glad true fans is going to offer ABS so as to make it accessible to the masses. All right. Yep, yep. True. True. Uh. G anonymous, 6969 through fountain. Says, just saying,

Thank you, Sir

Brian of London, 11 948, through caste O Matic, he says, boosting from hive Fest in Split Croatia,

ooh. Boost, high fest. Hive fest,

a Croatian. Boost, I can't believe you made me think about coming in through. Rachel Maddow, entrance, hole, Brian, sorry, stop. Come on. I'm gonna, we're gonna have to censor, yeah, really? Randall, black, 56 sets out of 1111, a satchel. Richards, he says. Brad joner, joining the value verse. Brad johnner,

oh, oh yes, that was the song we played. Yeah, joining the value

verse is huge. Great, award winning Canadian artist now just gets CD, baby. Did not flag songs in V, for V on YouTube for copyright strikes. Go podcast. Go

podcasting indeed.

And Gene bean, 2222 again, through castematic, he says, Dave, it's okay not to be on call. 24/7 365, we will all survive if you take time off for self help. This, I've never felt less, less healthy than our day right now. Really, that said, I mean, that was hyperbole, but oh, the distress I've completely I'm holding my hand in front of the boardroom. IRC, yes, that's hard. Thanks for looking into the aggregator issue, rapidly,

back the chocolate beef milkshakes. That's the only way to fix that problem. Yeah.

So I can have more power. That's the answer. Good. Power. Good one power comic strip blogger, the delimiter, 24,000 SATs nice through fountain says, howdy, Dave and Adam. Today, I would like to recommend hyper catcher, a podcast player, app for iPhone and iPad. Search in App Store for hyper. Catcher written together in the middle, or visit www.hypercatcher.com this app can generate transcripts for

it should just, it should just have in your podcast app a podcast daily that just summarizes all the podcasts you're not going to listen to anymore. It's perfect.

If I could have a podcast app that after I haven't listened to a podcast in maybe three days, if it would just remove you on my list.

Give me a catch up and remove all old episodes. Well, there you go. A digest, you know, digest the die, cast, digest, cast, Yeah,

cuz you know, you have those things where it's like on this mailing list, do you want to get every message in your inbox?

Yeah, you go, tried and true. Tried and True.

Got some, got some monthlies. We got new media productions. That's Rob and Todd. $30 thank you. Timothy voice, $10 uh. Michael Hall, $5.50 Thank you. Michael Jeremy gerds, $5 and Satan's lawyer, $5

the advocate is always in the house. We have our eye on you. We got our eye on you. All right, brother, get out. Go back. Go back to the to the mill, back to the grind.

Okay, I'm out. Yeah, I

got you in last seven minutes. Not too bad. Have a great weekend, brother. Yeah, you too All right. Thank you very much. Boardroom. We'll be back next week with more podcasting. 2.0 you

podcasts are cool. You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast index.org for more information. Go podcasting Nerdfighters, nerdfight. You.