Episode 193: Helpful Little Wizards

Podcasting 2.0 for September 13. 2024, episode 193, helpful little wizards. Oh, it's Friday, but not just any Friday. It's Friday the 13th. What could possibly go wrong? Well, nothing, because you are here in the boardroom, the only boardroom in all of podcasting, as far as I know, we're so decentralized. And of course, we are the boardroom that doesn't

My dog is looking at me like, I mean, he's, he never does this, but he's staring at me through the glass door.

Let him in like he wants to come in. He's,

he's got a I'm gonna bark look on his face like I've never seen. Oh, Louis is a count countdown team on this question mark. Now, does

he just bark willy nilly, or does he bark at stuff, at people and trucks and cars and deer and stuff?

The the triggers for he barks at stuff, but the triggers to what makes him bark are completely inscrutable. Oh, we have no idea what it is, but what he will, he'll definitely. So here's a crazy thing. He will start barking from the amazing that he's asleep, like dead asleep in the middle of the house. Oh

yes, he'll

start barking go to the door, and there will be a guy walking a dog down the sidewalk, and it's like, how did

you know? Yeah, Phoebe does that too, and they're kind of the same breed, although we, we had her in the in the paws and claws pet resort while we were in Mexico.

And claws, this is like a mani pedi place. Oh, yeah. And

I always get her the executive suite because I feel so guilty about boarding her. Because, you know this, we can't really find anyone here who can. I mean, she's, she's under 100 pounds, but she's a big dog, and, you know, so happy.

Do they garnish? Do they garnish the dog food with, like, parsley?

No, no, they don't. Otherwise, it's pretty regular. And they say, I'm all excited to go get her, you know, hey, Phoebe. She's like, wagging her tail a little bit. Okay, whatever. And she was mad for a whole 48 hours, you'd tell she was so mad, like, you put me in that place. Yeah, you got the fu Oh yeah, for a while, that aloof look they can give you, like, yeah, okay, yeah. Like, I'm

over you. Ready?

She's back to normal. Though I hate it. I hate boarding the dog. I do not like doing that. Not my favorite thing. How's your week been, brother, pretty good. Is it busy time again for you? Is September, September 15? Another busy time? September

15? October 15? Are they extension filing? You know, extension deadlines for for filing. So, yeah, it's like a little mini, mini tax season, but we're, we're getting through it that. I mean, last night, I did myself no favors. Uh oh, by I've been fighting this I've been fighting this thing. I've been fighting this problem with what I thought was cores. So cores, for the uninitiated, is cross origin resource sharing.

How did images get the exception.

I, you know, I don't know there's, there's probably, there's probably some course board, of course, like from Tim Berners Lee, probably like as he was writing the first thing, he was probably like, you know what? We ought to just give images an exception. And that was the way it was. You know how it goes.

Does it have to be verified images, though, does it have to be a JPEG or gif or etc?

I really don't know how that's determined. I'm assuming it's my MIME type.

But you could spoof No, you could spoof it. Yeah,

you could spoof it. But the browser, but the inter the the interpreters in the browser, they know the DOM parsers are probably, yeah, they're gonna reject that Yeah, but so that the carve out for images has, has always been there, and yeah, you're you're right. Harf had, it's mostly JavaScript, but it is more than that, because other tags can

oh yeah, like mp three would also be exam, yeah,

right, yeah. So I believe, I believe that's the case. Somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. But the so for core, for cores, you can, you tip. You have to, it's a server side change you have to make. You have to say, I'm allowing my stuff to be loaded from this other domain. So my domain is, you know, davejones.com, and yours is Adam curry.com and you can't load script and things from, from Dave jones.com on your web pages, and allow you to,

oh, you have to allow me, yes. Oh, okay, yeah,

right. And so there's a bunch of headers that have to be exchanged, like pre flight headers and that kind of thing. And there's, there's specific headers for that? Well, I've been trying to load them this side project that mean you're working. I've been trying to load this. I was trying to load some images that were in object storage, and they just would not they would not load. And I'm comparing the buckets

Is this the forward back button?

No, no, no. This is for, like, loading a piece of, like, just an image. So like, loading an image and you have, so, like, if I look we we have some stuff that we host for podcast index that's like, the bucket is feeds, dot podcast index.org, that's where we put some sort of, like, sandbox stuff and that kind of thing. And all of those images were fine. Just stick an image tag in the page. It loads fine. This other bucket doesn't work, and it's giving me a 403, by 403403,

and you get up early too. So that's that was late trying

True, true of trying to figure this out. And it finally, it just, it finally hit me that in setting up the the C name to pass through Cloudflare to go to this bucket because you want your buckets to be accessible from like, you know, feeds. Dot podcast index, I

want everybody. I want everybody to be able to touch my buckets.

Your buckets are so big. Yeah, it's a shame to hide them. Yes, you but you don't want it to be what it normally would be, which would be like, feeds, dot podcast, index.org, dot s3 dot Leno, dot, you know, bucket one, dash southeast.com, so just,

does this story end with? It was DNS?

No, no, no. It ends with, it is with, I stupidly set up a Cloudflare setting that I did that I wasn't like. So CloudFlare, when you set up a new site to to pass through CloudFlare, it wants you to do it has these helpful little wizards that will turn on a bunch of features

for you. It's all always suspicious. Helpful little wizards. Helpful little wizards. That's the show title, right there.

Never trust a helpful little wizard. But if you So, there's a couple of these. And wizard also a great song by Black Sabbath, yeah. If you, if you just go through each one of those wizards, it will turn on, like a bunch of basic stuff that most people want to turn on, and most of it is for sure, like it's what you want, but this, but one of them was block hot linking, image hot linking and, and I was like, and it finally just out of the blue, it hit me. Oh, you know what? I

Me, were you on? Was it to overstack Now, what's it called?

Oh, Stack Overflow. Stack

Overflow.

Yeah, I was everywhere, dude. I was all over Google trying to figure out, What in the world is this thing. But yeah, that was just myself, shooting myself in the foot.

Well, I'm glad you figured it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're good. Yeah, we're good now. So yes, we have a project. We're working on people like side project. What are they doing? Yeah, we're working on something.

Yeah. Speaking of, speaking of side projects, and you got anything you want to jump right into? No, no, I don't. There's, there's a bunch much happening this week. But one thing that I'm pretty pumped about is, let me refresh my page. Where did this go? Okay, there it is. But one thing I'm pretty pumped about is Alex Gates has been building, by my request, he has been building a, what is he building? He's been building a tool, a two. What

is he building in there? It's, it's a,

it's a pod, ping, utility, okay, so what this thing does? Well, let me, let me step back. Pod ping is under you. Is an underutilized resource. There are hundreds of 1000s of feeds being sent through pod ping every second it seems. Yes, yeah. So if you want to find out, if you want to find out what's going on in the world of pub, of podcasting? Yeah, you just, you just look at that. Tap into pod ping, and you're going

Oh yeah, it's yes. I wish we had many more. But the top 10, the big ones, are there cash. I mean, is lips in there. They're not pods. That would be so good if they, if they jumped in, that'd be so easy, even I could code that for him.

You can always please do. Please send him some code, yes. So if you, if you tap into you, you can imagine how pod paint is a what you know, obviously pod ping sends an update through the through the blockchain every time a feed gets updated. This is such useful information, but we don't even pull Buzzsprout or Spreaker. No, of course never touch. Don't have to never, yeah, we never send a request for a feed until the end comes through. We just there's no

it's you've got stats. You've got data. By the way, I just received a boost rss.com, loves pod. Ping, just letting you know.

Thank you. Every time I start listing people, I always listen. Leave somebody out. I should stop listing um. So what the only drawback to pod ping? And I'm sorry, Brian, but the only drawback to hi to pod ping is hive is is something that people just don't understand,

or they just hear blockchain, they go, Oh no,

right? And we've lot. We've largely for for the use case of pod ping, it's what hive is, is irrelevant to what, yeah, because

you don't need to know it. You just don't need to know what, what's doing. Yeah,

you just tap the fire hose and you're good and you're good, or you send and so we and we, and we, we abstracted that with the with the pod ping dot cloud interface. So you just send your update to pod ping dot cloud, and it takes care. Of all the hive stuff and on the on the back end, and you don't, you never have to even understand Hive at all. But that's on the sending side. We needed a salute. We need a solution that's just as easy on the receiving side. So

yes, if app devs can do something with it, and

there is, there are tools that Brian and then Alex built called, like, the hive watcher,

yes, or my, my favorite tiles, dot pod, ping.org,

yeah, that, yeah, that's now, that's like, that would be more like an app.

It, oh, no, of course it is. It's totally an app. Yeah.

So the tool, the tool that I'm talking about, let's, let's say that you're building a a podcast app, or a podcast platform of some sort, and you want to watch pod, think pod ping for updates in a programmatic way that you can pipe into your system. The Hive watcher Python tool would get you there. There's also a version of it in JavaScript. They are, they work, but they're complicated in the sense that when they fail you, if you don't have expertise in Hive or Python

that's the one you're watching, then you can have a problem, yeah.

So you need to be, it's sort of like, I mean, bad example, but it's kind of like nostr in that way, if you're, if you're currently interacting with one nostr relay and that thing drops you, I mean, you have to be able to intelligently go somewhere else and figure, you know, you gotta be able to switch gears. So the same, same type of deal here. So anyway,

yeah, which is the way we actually like stuff like a JSON exactly,

because it's JSON in the block. So you just take that JSON out file. Yeah, got it. So he's been working on that for for a few months in in rust. He's building in a rust. So we've got memories, memory safety. We got the memory stability, and it is already the pod, ping, dot, cloud front end is written in rust. So we're, we're just kind of making this all match up well. So he, he got it he he gave me access to the

So are you by firing this up, are you actually connecting to the hive chain, or you just watching the hive chain? Well, I guess it's the same thing. You're not an active participant in the chain. You're just a lurker.

Yeah? I'm trying to figure out maybe an analogy there. So it's sort of like, you know how? You know how Spurlock built that blue sky fire hose watcher thing, like every post, yeah, yeah, that goes through it. He, you know, waterfalls down the page. That's this thing. It's really not, it's not participating. It's not posting anything. It's just really, it's because the the hot, the hive network has full nodes which participate in creating the

blockchain right, which has a whole bunch of stuff in each block you don't need, yeah, and so then

you and, but you also have API servers where if you just want to see what's there, you can just tap into those. And so he's monitoring multiple API servers and juggling all that stuff.

And does it write us? An individual file per block.

It writes per it writes it as transactions. So it creates a folder structure that is year, month, day, hour, minute, second, and within that second folder, it has potentially multiple files, each with block number, transaction number, and a couple of other bits of data inside that file

into it easy, yep, yep, with an API or just flat file access. Listen to me.

You're a pro. You sell a pro the I think. And I'm open to suggestions here, but I think the way that I'm going to do it is the way that we're doing the tracking, object storage stuff. So there'll be a thing that may be like tracking or or watch dot pod, ping, dot cloud. And then that will be just a bucket. And there will be one place, there will be a

that you've seen. I want an OPML version of it. Dave, you

are you? Do you? Do you like, do you like 12 gig OPML, because that's what, that's what it'll

be. Yeah. That's cool, you know, yeah. So

I've also got another idea.

Well, let me just stick on this for a second, because, you know, this project that we're working on is, I don't know how to describe it, but it has given just looking at the work you're doing. And by the way, Dave Jones doing interface work is mind blowing.

Mind blowing is one way to describe it. No,

I mean, you know, you're, you know. And I say this with love, your interfaces are, you know, like kind of a mauve background and text, you know, and some boxes and buttons, well, they're functional. They're 100% functional.

She's, she's got such a great personality, no?

Well, yeah, in a way. But whatever is this, that framework you're using, Laravel, yeah, whatever you're doing, it's, it's outputting stuff that is beautiful. Well,

now, I mean, the stuff you the stuff you're seeing is now that that's all me from scratch that, oh, okay, that's some the the stuff on the dashboard side, that's, that's some Laravel. But the the output that you get on the other end of it, that's

all well, okay, well, all right. So blown away, double blown away. But it's, it's given me so much. It really makes my brain creative. Like, look at all the things we can do. It's the same when I look at tiles, dot pod, ping.org, I'm like, all the things that can be done, because I look at it and say, Oh, look, think about the data behind it. I mean, this is, I guess, what I was getting to in the past episode or so about

Air peeps, he said, You guys are minimalist. Yes, thank

you. Yeah, minimalist interface.

There you go. Minimalist as far as effort goes, it's usually the way it goes. Is usually what that means. Yeah, no, I feel, I feel what you're saying. Because that's See, that's the way I feel with with pod, the pod, ping, um, Dan. Damon, is that, like one here? Like one thing I want to do is make this available over activity. Pub, yeah, baby, you can subscribe to put you can subscribe to feed at activity. Pub, dot pod, ping, dot cloud interact in an

Oh, wow. You'll need a separate, separate timeline for that. That'll be, that'll be, I mean, we're running about 311 pod ping every three seconds.

No, like, this is not for, this is not for human consumption. For,

no, not at all. Yeah, definitely not, yeah. This

is totally for, like, architecture, so, but, but, I mean, we can, you know, we can do it, and that I can see how this, I can see how this moves the needle, or could potentially move the needle to get what I want to what I want to do is just get, get podcasting away from polling. You know what I mean for sure,

polling is for pussies. It's all right, yes, we definitely need that. Polling is for pussies.

Yeah? Work on that. Yes. No agenda shop. Yeah, please. But you know what I mean, like, there's, there's, so there's just no reason for it anymore. There really isn't. You know that? The reason, well, that's, let me, let me take that back. That's, that's too bold of a statement. The reason, the only reason to poll is if you have to, that's a better way to say it. If there's a, if there's something, if something happened where there was some sort of, you know, censorship, or

post polling world. I like it. PPW,

yeah. And this, I think this tool let is the building block for how, for how we start making, for how we start making pod ping like, ubiquitous and everywhere?

Yeah, you know what I have learned throughout the years is, if you have a fire hose or more data that updates regularly, it's like, like, honey for the fly developer, you know, I was like, and they just, they, when they see the data, they're like, oh, what can I do with this? There got to be something I could. And that's, that's how Bing it.io was built, you know, I just always published the knowledge in the

mean, like, like Google searches and stuff he

he actually let me see, hold on a second, because he posted an example, which was Rogan. Let me see,

is it a real time fact check? Well,

in a way, because he said, here we go. Yeah. Hyper catcher, can now take the chapter

data. The chapter drip stuff said, Hey, Jamie, is what it's

exactly what it's called. Yes, can take the chapter. Thanks for ruining the punchline. Dreb I was getting to it. Could take the chapter data from podcasts you've listened to and any research term, Hey, Jamie couldn't quote and compile it into a markdown file for sharing and note taking apps like obsidian.

Nice, yeah, that's really cool. Yeah. So

I love that. I love that there's different different ideas and different reasons, and this also gives people a reason to have multiple apps, you know? And I think we probably already use multiple apps for different reasons, which is nice when it all just kind of works, and it would be nice to sync that all over activity. Pub, no, I'm saying, just saying, wouldn't it be cool to have my all of my apps syncing with the subscriptions.

Yeah, and that's, well, you know, that kind of leads into that leads into episodes out FM, yes, now supporting, now supporting all feeds instead of just iTunes IDs. So like that makes that, makes that part easier. Oh,

because, first of all, episodes.fm so awesome, although this was a lesson in UI design. So I brought it up yesterday to tweet out the live no agenda Show episode and and I, and I go to episodes.fm, like, whoa, okay, different homepage. Hold on a second. Like, what? Okay, where's the search box? Fine. And then it keeps opening up podcast.apple.com, and I know that you can set it, so whatever

Oh, it used to, it used to be used, right? Yeah, you

toggle it to the right, and now it was to the left. Like, oh. And it took me a, you know, in the, in the, in the heat of the battle, getting ready to go live, like, Oh, what is going on here? I don't understand. I immediately got, immediately someone on mass, on guy. He said, Oh, okay, hey, Boomer. Like, thanks. Thanks. Didn't even respond to that.

I need to. I'm gonna actually try this out here. I'm gonna pick a show that I know does not have an iTunes ID, and that's gonna be, let's just do murder in the fourth dimension. Yeah, here we go. We're in the fourth dimension. Oh, there's no wait. Oh, I'm merged. So Steven crater did a pull request to bring to enable episodes.fm for pages that, for pages that didn't, didn't have iTunes IDs on the podcast index. It's not, you know, curry

and the keeper also doesn't come up yet. So maybe he hasn't implemented it all yet, because I'm looking for curry, and the keeper, which I know doesn't have an iTunes ID and it does not show up. Hmm,

maybe I screwed up the the push to production, hmm, uh, weren't, weren't, weren't. I'll have to figure that out, because that's supposed to be there on the pay on the podcast index side. Oh,

you have to pay. Oh, you have to paste in the feed URL,

yeah, but that should be taken care of in the yeah in the search, in the link, yeah. You know, it's also bothering me that there's no that there's no left padding on the podcast index avatar at the beginning, at the top of the website. There's no one that's super important. But when the when you shrink the site down, uh, width wise,

oh yeah,

the icon goes all the way up hard to the hard edge on the left. Oh, gotcha.

Gotcha. Let me see if I podcast feed. Well, that's good to know. Okay, so put the feed in.

Steve said it works for him. Maybe. What if I what am I doing wrong? Okay,

putting the feed, oh, here.

No, wait, wait, I had to hard refresh my browser to get it was a cash thing because I hard. I did a get it, a control shift R, and now I'm seeing the episodes.fm icon,

oh, on the podcast index. Oh, okay, no, I have that I have. Oh, okay, that's interesting. Let me try that. I. Isn't it fun? Everybody to listen to us do a hard R. A hard R. That was the title of episode, 100 of mofacs with Adam curry.

The hard R was, yeah. Do you got to do the hard R on the on the page and see if it shows up? Okay,

hard R, let's see Ben, yeah, it shows up. And I hit episodes.fm yep, there is, Oh, beautiful. Oh, well, that makes it easy. Thanks, Steven. Yeah, this is great, brother. That's beautiful. That is beautiful. Okay,

see now, because now I can take, um, now I can take the all those links off of the activity, pub postings, and just put one link, right, all the pills, or whatever you call it.

So fantastic. I'm telling you, it's one of the best developments in podcasting. 2.0 is how episodes.fm integrates with everything. It's just fantastic. Awesome. It really is.

Yeah, so that's, I think, like, I think we're, I think we're seeing a bunch of different things sort of coalescing right now where I think what we're in is a phase where things are becoming easier. Oh, totally, you know,

I mean, I had this thought, I'm not quite sure exactly how to explain it, but I had a thought, what if so like, for instance, episodes.fm is a good, good example. So let's say I send out the link, it's the episodes.fm and you click on podcast guru, because that's the app you're using. Now it knows

following, not following you, that the

the URL, whatever the trigger is to open up the app that it, it doesn't just show you this, you know, because you're still standard episode, okay, here's an episode here, you know, here's the here's the main podcast, and then all your other stuff. I mean, what if it took over the whole UI? What if it changed everything based upon the data in the feed, right down to the buttons for all I care, you know, just like, what if?

It okay. Let me see if I can sort of mirror this back to you, my understanding of this like you're kind of saying that. You're saying that when you get a request for, let's say, an episode of a podcast, what you what you see, is almost like a custom web site that's built out of the parts that are exposed by that episode of that podcast. How about this?

And it doesn't have to be a website. This is why I'm interested. Well, obviously that's much easier, perhaps, but let's say I'm a publisher, and when I publish something, people have to have, it's if you just open the app, then you're just going to get whatever the app, however the app functions. But when you come to it from some other door, a link, which I

I feel like I understand what you're saying.

I was better when I was smoking weed, was much easier. No, it wasn't.

I feel like I understand what you're saying. It's almost, it's like,

like, take the thing we're working on. I. Right? So it has backgrounds. The whole the whole thing changes based upon where you're coming from,

right, right, yeah, you like, you get a unique, it's like, you get a unique experience based on how you get there.

How about this? Okay, so, and this all stems from Rachel Maddow, which is the is so frightening for me to think of, but

you are stuck on this. I am this, really, this, really got, uh, got your hackle up well,

and, you know, I Yeah, Gordon just said a custom skin. Yeah, that. That's a good way of looking at it. So Rachel Maddow her, her main complaint was, you know, I don't understand. What is the where's the recommendations? How come? You know, she's what she wants is a platform. She wants a platform like YouTube for people to be interacting with podcasts. But what she's really saying is, I want to, I want a platform. I want a platform because, of course, you we'd all love to

Okay, first, first of all, I think that you have always been

insane.

You have always been obsessed with, and I think this is a good obsession with getting away from the inbox view of podcasting and RSS in general.

Yeah, I don't know if obsession is fair, but I'll take it okay, because

that, and I'm with you on that, I feel like, you know, we did this in the freedom controller. We had this idea, you know, we took a news river approach, not an inbox reader approach. You didn't have unread items that you had to look at right and again then go through and mark as Mark as read. What you just had is you just had a stream of things coming a first in, first out view. And then there's certain things that you

role, right? But I, but I want that to all be in the Yes, yes, yes to that. But I that needs to be in in madow world.

What do you mean Maddow world? So

it has to be other Maddow people who came in. My Rachel Maddow, yes, we are, I know just, it just makes it I don't know if I'm hurting myself with that in the argument or not, okay, but I want, I want people to come to apps, because and the apps are just beautiful. They're such wonderful. There's so many core functional pieces that have been, you know, been worked on for decades at this point. And you know, people are winding up going to YouTube, or winding up, you know, going to

But we need to talk about true fans, by the way,

well, let's talk about it. Because I think this, I think this folds into it, that that so when I, if I send people to true fans for no agenda, that should be no agenda world, not just a true fans app that's playing no agenda. And yeah, and it's not just a skin, although not unimportant for branding, but since everyone you can identify that people are coming in to no agenda world. So now, what are those people doing?

And, like, I like this, yes, go ahead, keep going and,

you know, and then I look at the hyper catcher stuff. So I'm doing a Hey, Jamie, look up on Chapter data. What is it bringing in from me? Is it bringing stuff in from another world? And can I switch worlds? You know, I can just see such a rich just, I'm trying to break my head out of the inbox model. You're right. It's an obsession. I'll stop.

Yeah, well, well, I like, I like this because you, if you, if you take all of the stuff that's there in the feed, like, all like, so this is where all that stuff could live, like, social, like, all the social like activity, pub comments, nostra comments, pod rolls, person tags, like, you could bring all of this stuff into almost like you. Yeah, you like, you said, like, a world of this show that exists when people

the whole context of that, of that of the world that that, that publisher. Controls or influences.

And then, in order to make this happen, we need, we need, we need a little bit more. One thing we need is we need the banner, the ability to do banner. We need better art specifications outside of the iTunes namespace. We need, we need a large like we need to finalize the way to put the banners in there. I know Russell at pod two. He's already, he's already doing this. He just took the bull by the horns and started doing it and but we also maybe need some some color,

yes, that's the start of it, absolutely.

The thing that Apple podcast is missing is all that rich data to go on top of it.

Well, that's they'll never, they'll never get there where they will, you know, when we're dead and gone, because they'll just keep plugging away at their own pace. That's just the nature of a slow company. I guess. I'm trying to get away from, oh, great. Here's a pod roll. Click here to see recommendations by this podcast. I'm trying to get away from that, because that's not, you know, when you go to Youtube, it doesn't say, Click here to look at videos like this. It shows

there's, yeah, it's, it's taking, this is, it's not just simply showing the data is taking sort of, like the next step and and putting it in, like, arranging it in a way that that makes you feel like you're in that, that thing, yeah, in

that world just, I'm just Calling what it is Rachel Manos world, because if she, if she sees that, she has that capability, she'll promote it, you know, yeah,

it's Rachel's world. Yeah, I get it. Rachel's world, yeah, I like, I like the idea, I like this concept, yeah? And I think we can, I think we can bring some of that into what we're doing now, you know,

well, in a way, what we're doing with our project is some of that we're presenting a world, yeah, yeah. We're presenting a world that, you know,

it's not app centric, right? That's been about this other project is that the app is not the center of the universe. It's, it's creating, it's, it's pushing the center of the universe. It ends up being somewhere else. And you have, you have to live by the rules of that other thing, right? And it's actually kind of a mind bender, and it's a little bit hard to get used to. I think this makes, well, let's talk about true fans, okay? Because, because Sam, Sam said that he,

That's, that's tricky, which

is cool, but he, he posted and said that he's, he's kicking he's, he's giving up, and he's gonna put it, he's gonna build a native app. Oh,

really, yes, I missed that post. Really.

Let me see. Let me see if I can find it.

Sam, I'll bet you that, I bet you that investors kind of demand that investors can't wrap their head around a web app as as valuable think so, yeah, I know. So

let's see,

see things that's, that's, uh, it's a big. I mean, that's a big that is quite big, that he, that he's going that way, and that's on a. Perspective. Actually,

I can't find the original post here, but he bet he basically said, you know, I give up, in the sense that, you know what he said, specifically said, for whatever reason, people just don't like web apps. It's not, you know, it's like, it's just not getting it's just people are not, you know,

let me just, let me just jump right back in. Okay, I think if you approach it from the app perspective, so, I want a podcast app. Yes, I can see where people think, oh, I want an app. I don't want this thing. But if you're being pushed into a world from from the outside in and not you know, it's just wow, it's a major change.

Let me. Let me read to you what he posted. Okay? He said, we give in people don't un don't understand or like progressive web apps. We're going to build native iOS Android versions of true fans. By the end of October, we will have native apps with support for CarPlay, Android Auto, Apple Watch and Alexa integration. Huh?

Well, in that case, no goodbye, progressive web apps,

the PWA, they had a good run. No, I think that I've got, I've got some thoughts on this, but

let me put it this way. All right, back to Rachel. If Rachel said, Go to podcast.rachelmano.com, and you're sent to a a Rachel world that is based on true fans. So it has all the true fans functionality, but it's just, but everything is is built around Rachel's world with stuff that she can, quote, unquote, control by what she puts in her feed, which would, you know, require a 2.0 feed. And from there, people also see, oh, wait, I can listen to all my

Is that? Is that what curry and the keeper.com is? Yes, yeah, yeah.

That's pod page, you know. So what if, instead of you have to set up your pod page? What if the app is pod page, and you send people there, and based upon the feed it shows you that page? Does that make sense? What I'm saying? So instead

of yes, yeah, yeah, you're, you're, you're almost white labeling a full, a full podcast app, yes,

but just by sending people there from from a link, yeah, right. So instead of you have to go to curry inthekeeper.com but I spent hours setting it up. That thing is a full blown app which can also do other things for, you know, for other podcasts, which would be, you know, and then the whole idea is, people say, tell their other podcast friends, the podcasters, hey, if, if you point at this thing, then it changes. It becomes your world,

right? Well, that's really what, you know. Okay, well, I

just ruined pod. Page's entire business model. But you know what I'm saying? It's like, No,

I think you I think they could, I think they could easily do become, you know, them and true fans and these I think they could become this thing you're talking about without too like, they could just become this, like, because pod page is essentially a podcast app, yes, just with different but you just don't scroll. You just don't scroll through a timeline.

So instead of acting like a web page for a podcast, act like a podcast app. That's what I'm saying, like and you can send anybody there. Now it'll be pretty standard if you don't have 2.0 tags, but if you got 2.0 tags, oh, man. Imagine all that. Imagine what a cool app that would be. And I'm a little enamored by, you know, some of the gesture stuff that I've seen you working on. It's like, oh, I can just swipe back and forth. It's like, it's rock solid. This actually feels more

Well, this is something that I've been thinking about because of that as well. Is when I saw what, when I saw what Sam had written, I get it and I think he's I think he's right. People don't like a lot of people don't like PWAs, and I think that, I think there's a lot of reasons for that. I think it's because there's sort of an inherent rubber banding that kind of happens with web with websites Nate, native apps. Native apps feel solid because they don't

stop trying to be an app that people are supposed to treat like an app, because they're not fooled. It's not an app. I got it. I didn't go to the App Store. It's not an app, whatever, whatever, the whatever you're trying to pull on me. It's not an app. So instead of that, just pull them into a world.

Yeah, apps don't have sort of real native apps, whether it's on the on the phone or on the desktop, a real, actual native app, don't have any they don't have a notion of a viewport, right? You know, you're there's no viewport that you're peering into, and you can move all around in there. So they that once you eliminate that sort of visual wonkiness, if you take if it wasn't for that, I can tell you, based on the last few weeks of development that I've been

off. Yes, no kidding, you hit

play on a on a piece of content, yeah, just work. And that thing just, it just

works unless it's YouTube and you're not a subscriber, but that's a different issue. Exactly

in that way, it's so much better than the native app of YouTube, and so I think, like, I understand, I fully understand why he's doing it, and it's probably the right thing to do. Well,

is it though? Is it though? Because he has all the elements of what I'm talking about. He has it all. Sam, don't give up yet. He has all the elements. But like all apps, he's trying to be, use me. Use me for all your podcasts. I'm just saying. Why? Right? Why not just let the publishers tell people, hey, use this or click, click on, you know, this C name that I have, or type this into your browser, Adam Curry's world.com then it automatically shuttles you to this place. And

It's See, he's, he's almost there already, really, yes,

he has, particularly with activity streams, he's got all these things that he can start to correlate that people are already doing interacting with the same content. Now you're talking about something that is really different, and make the whole so don't promote other pods. Don't promote your forget about your trying to be a podcast that try to be a world for that one show that someone just went to

like. If I Okay, so if I go to true fans, I just went to truefans.fm and I'm going to click on buzzcast. What I come up with is this page that looks almost like pod page with Buzz cat with the big buzzcast logo. It's got the hosts of the show. They're, they're, it's there,

I have to sign in again. I'm getting tired. I don't understand why I always have to sign in. Is that,

is that I'm on the brow, I'm on the desktop browser,

but I'm on the desktop browser too. That always makes me sign in again. I don't understand. And of course, I use the password manager, so it's not something I can easily remember. It

wanted me to, but I just clicked away from it, oh, just so I could get in and see the page, and then see, now, as you see all, I see all the I see all the stuff on the page. If this, this feels like I'm on the buzzcast website, because there's this nice art, and there's all these things there. There's the pod role, there's activity. I mean, this could be white labeled into just buzzworld. Yes, like you're talking about,

yeah, and I'm not sure how I can control it as as as the buzzworld as the buzzword publisher, but it's right now you're seeing become a fan. So I should already be a fan. You know? It's like, I'm in, I'm already in, and they should be showing me a whole bunch of things. And this still has the, oh, now you're seeing all the old episodes, right? Turn this into a world and and make it instead of true fans at the top. Make it buzz fans and buzzworld. What? This just all that's,

but everything's in the feed, you know, like, like, I think, I think what you're saying just a few tweaks, I think would make this become that thing. Yes, because all the stuff is there. It's just arranged in sort of, like a, like a, like a file, folder. Yes, okay, here's episodes, yeah, pod roll, here's activity, here's comments. Instead, just munge all that stuff onto the page in a big and, you know, and maybe if make it all there.

So if you're, if you're coming to and from from an external source, and that external source can be recognized, take it over. Take it over. Make it. Make it buzzword, if you're just using it as an app, okay, fine. But make it. Make it the but, man, I would be telling people use this app or go to this, go to this URL, and it'll open it up. And

You abstract away the idea of the app. Yeah,

yeah, I guess that's what I'm doing. Todd. Todd boosts in. Welcome to level two. Hold the line. Hey, should we play a song just to clear the palette for a second here? Yeah, sure. Okay, pick this up from the from the value verse says. I was scrolling through the split kit this morning. Thank you very much. Steven B, love that work you're doing. Brad johnner, and this is free, and I watched

you leaving silhouette of all the time that we shared, and there's no reason for you to turn around and come back. You. I guess I knew that you grew up to be the woman that you are. No doubt that you're leaving. I never thought the day would come so soon. But you gotta be free walk down the path of uncertainty. You gotta be leading that junk a gotta be leading that you're gonna make it. You gotta be free to take the chances that you need to take. You gotta be leading that you're gonna make you.

I hope on, I guess that's fitting for today. You've got to be free to walk the path of uncertainty. Brad joner on podcasting, 2.0 if you like that song, go back a little bit. Boost. Boost, go back in your time. You can even pause it. Boost, let him know you heard it. On podcasting, 2.0 any song that has banjo and cello in the same track is good with me.

I'm a fan of those things being merged together into one thing. It's good.

All right. What else you got on your list? Just had to cleanse the palette of everything.

I like it. Oh, did

you do the you talk to the Zebedee folks? Can you talk about it yet?

I can't. I can't say a ton because they they just explicit me, explicitly asked me to hang loose about talking about it.

You're under NDA, you're under NDA, we're

under friend. We're under friend. EA, not NDA, you're under what

do you call? What's they call it when, when you can't release until a certain date? What's it called

this embargo, embargo,

embargo, thank you, embargo.

I think I mean the skit, the basic thumbnail sketch, is pretty, I mean, it's the same as what you laid out last week. There's that's pretty much it. He's as far as, like, pricing. And things like that, and how, how that whole thing is gonna sort of fit together. Oh, they're writing it up for us, right? Yeah, he already sent me sort of a so here's what I can say, that what they're doing is like a one pager where it's like, Here's how. And I've got that, I've got that page now. I'm just

embargo. You're under an embargo. You can't, you can't talk about it yet.

Yeah, so as, yes, I'm under an soft embargo. And the so I'm working, I'm like, going through the page to check, to check, like, kind of see how it works. And, you know, just kind of get a, get a feel for what they've put together.

Is there technical stuff in there? Implementation stuff? Yeah, oh, cool, yeah.

It's, like, it's, it's a really simple write up of, like, if you're an ad developer and you want to integrate, you do this, this, this and this, and it's nice,

so simple how to do MD, readme.md,

and so he said, he said, with the like, sometime this week, they'll, he said, they just want to clear the last stuff, to the last bits, to make sure that that it's all doable. Because it sounded like, it sounds like what they it's similar to what they were telling you about last week that they they kind of had all the pieces in place. They just needed to rearrange some things to sort of put together a

nice. Yeah, they're nice people, and they really believe in value for value. That's what I like about them. I

had a it was a very enjoyable call. Yeah, there they,

I guess Katie was on the call. They get it, yeah, for sure.

Yeah. It was, yeah. It wasn't all dudes, exactly.

It wasn't all dudes. Oh, that's, that's the elements of a good call. Breath of fresh air. Yes, yes, indeed, indeed.

No, no, but no, it's gonna be, it's gonna be, it's gonna be good. As soon as I get the thumbs up, we'll, you know, I'll go do it on the show.

Yeah, excellent. Um,

the, AG, see, the aggregator went down, I guess. So neither,

yeah, that was, uh, that was, so, here's the sequence of events. Um, so you had the Bitcoin and podcast that, turns out there's a lot of podcasts with the words Bitcoin and, and, and died, yeah, wasn't updating. And so, you know, I saw the Bat Signal go out on, on the mastodon, like, Okay, let me see what I can do. And I do a refresh, or I did a scan, didn't scan. I'm like, Okay, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna hit the refresh. Are you sure? Yes, and, and still wasn't up to him like

for sure, broke in, not in a fun way, because, like, I was, I was at the rock climbing gym when, when I saw this come through, I was just, I

was just, was hanging, you're hanging on a rock looking at your phone. Seriously? Dave Jones,

yeah, no, um, some, I'm between climbs, and I'm just kind of scrolling the mastodon to keep track of things and and I saw this, and so I went, of course, I go over to the API site, hit the hit the reset on that feed, and just like he was like, now there's no episodes, yeah, there's no scan. Oh, crap. So, oh man. So, you know, when I got home, wait, did

you know I'm disappointed you did an SSH from your phone. I mean, that's why

so many good SSH apps on the iPhone,

Mini termics. I

use termix. Can you imagine doing that on an iPhone mini No?

No, that would be awful.

And just it teaches me that I should, how dare I be at the gym without a laptop in my bag? You know? Seriously, you know. But, but I got in there and some German podcast had put a Unicode character in their URL. And what was crashing was the insert on the My seat was the MySQL insert. So the way the aggregator works is it, it runs. It collects all the, all of the. Uh, feed updates into one big batch, sequel batch insert, and then executes that to update, like, you know, potentially 2000

would, it would bring down the whole aggregator, when, when, when it, when it, when it

crashed. No, it just crashed the process. And so then it would start again. Oh, and try that one. It would try it was stuck on that same feed. I think, I

think we just need to cut Germany off.

I already did. I blocked him. Oh, no, yeah,

yeah. If equals, gr, D, E, yes, then block, yeah,

yeah. But one, one bad at Germany didn't bring enough for the whole classroom, so everybody gets punished, yeah, but it, but it's, I've got a worker, I've got a workaround in there now. And so we're, what character

was it and what and how does that wind up in the feed URL? Well, you know

how it is? I mean, you have no idea like this, you know how Unicode is? You look at and you're like, what is that? Right? Right? Because there's 8 million Unicode characters, and half of them are, like, not even visible, you know, like, they're like, control characters. You know, this one means this character. Like, this character means, like, go back three spaces and you're like, what? Huh, like, it's just not even like a real character. And so I couldn't even tell. So someone

probably typed in a URL manually and hit the backspace or something, and sounds like a manual input issue?

Yeah, I think, if I think, if I wonder what

the generator was for it,

the generator was pod love. I think I'm pretty sure I saved the feed, but I haven't gotten back to it yet. Pretty sure it was a pod love feed, interesting and which I did not think pod love supported funky characters in their URL. I mean, like, technically, I don't think there's any spec anywhere that exists that says you can't do that in a URL, in a URL, but you You're asking for trouble if you do it clearly,

the pod sage, stop it. Yeah,

it was a stupid oversight on my part. I should have, I mean, it's been running for four years. I

mean, never happened before,

millions and millions of feeds, and so I just it was, yeah, it was, sometimes you just don't know what you don't know to quote until we know it. Rumsfeld, yeah,

yeah. Well, thanks for fixing it. That's appreciated. I'm my nightmare is, Dave Jones is no longer on this planet.

That's kind of my nightmare too. Well, there's

that. But think of the podcasts.

Well, somebody, please, think of the podcast.

We need a we need a succession plan.

I see key man insurance is that what? No, not the insurance

we need, like a, you know, a dead man's switch if you don't hit it after X amount of time, like a, you know, like a multi SIG wallet. You know, it has to release passwords, at least to Alex gates or something,

a dead man switch goes to Alex,

somebody. Why not? You could send it to me, but All right, here you go. What am I gonna do with it?

No, the dead man switch goes to Alex, and he goes to three people. Goes to Alex, Eric PP and Archie over at pod friend. I mean, pod verse, okay, yeah, those, those guys will handle it, okay. And Spurlock and goes to all four of those guys, just saying, if Dave doesn't SSC in once a week, and just, yeah, the Dave's dead credentials, or

we just need a way to do wellness check so we can see if you know he's alive. Okay,

sorry. James needed a wellness check. His feed went that was

a wall. That was, do we ever figure out what happened? His

server was crashing, is what he said.

That sucks. I've never had that where you wake up one morning like, wait a minute, there's no there's no pod news. What am I going to do? Wait, there's no pod. There's no pod news anywhere. It's not, how does this what? Yeah,

it's not just an episode missing. The whole thing's gone. It's like, James doesn't even exist anymore. It felt like, and I thought he just decided

to quit, yeah, rage quit. Like, I'm getting out of the business. I'm gonna go fishing.

Spotify. Send him one too many. Press Release. He says that, Danny's like, I screw it, yeah, let's see what else I got. Actually, I kind of need to be conscious of time. I've got kind of a soft out, okay, around 215 so we might want to go ahead and, oh yeah,

we can do that. Sure. Oh, short board meeting. Boy, All right, everybody, yeah, less options for you this week. No warrants. Yeah, this the, you know, nature, the nature, the nature of the IRS Code, yes, I hear you. Yeah, no problem. Well, let me read the boost that came in while we were yapping away. Br, 1000 SATs pod stage podcasting, salty crayon, 404. There's an unholy amount of bitcoin podcast saying the exact

do that in your sleep? I got we got the pod verse as a PayPal for 50 bucks.

Thank you very much. That is highly appreciated. Yes, waiting,

highly anticipating pod verse next gen. That's right,

by the way, by the way, yep, you know, though, this is a thought I just had, you know, Mitch was saying, hey, it's going to be a while for us to get the app done. But, you know, he was looking at, you know, serving up an API, like a backup or an alternative source. Why, you know, consider the ideas we were talking about earlier. Maybe that's something you guys can do.

Yeah, and, and I, and I encourage, you know, I encourage anybody wants to run, you know, some sort of API. I encourage you. I mean, if you could, I would say, like, if

right? Yeah, the same,

yeah. That would be a that would be hard. Um, anyway, it sounds like what I mean, they're spending a lot of time on their database schema. It sounds like it's going to be really cool. I can't wait to see it. We got some boosts. Oh, I see we got McDermott six. I don't know McDermott, that's a new one. And McDermott 64444, through true fans says listing on a 1.0 app because I lose signal in the woods when I run. But had to pull over to give you a standing zero for this spot on

Standing zero. Standing O, a standing zero. Hey, I got a standing zero at that conference. Awesome. Standing

O for the spot on commentary about on the media and that that's always, always a fun Hey, listen. Mike Dale, 1701, Star Trek boost through fountain. He says, yes, it's Spotify. Okay. Be Dinty. BB, dint see 1701, oh, there's a Star Trek boost.

Do we? Do we know? Be dinsey. Do.

I don't know. Be dense. I'm gonna defragmented.

Welcome to the club. Be densey through

true fans. Another true fans boost. Glad Do you have the comment? Federation working? Sam, very nice. Cool, cool, cool. See what else we got. Gene bean, 2222 also three. True fans, Dave, I'm sure you have been through this before, but can you tell me the requirements of the podcast index database, not how it's implemented today, but what it needs to accomplish, asking, because I'd like to run it by some co workers who have some pretty crazy experience with

patience,

patience is a requirement.

I would say so.

I mean, you know, that's a hard thing to guess. I would need somebody like, probably, like Macintosh to kind of tell me, or Archie to tell me what that would be. But, I mean, I would have to boil it down to, I'll give you a better answer on the next show. I would have to boil it down to, like, transactions per second, a number of no not just for all transactions. But I would have to say the biggest bottleneck is inserts, right

as we discuss even I know that now, whenever I'm out with my buddies talking database stuff like, how about those inserts? I know the table locks are nuts.

Rachel maddows entry point

number for Rachel maddows entry point, which by itself, is just very odd term, not a show title. But no, no, not a show title.

Yeah, I can get you like, I would have to say, I'll have to come up with a number of like, updates and inserts per second, and I'll get that for you in the next show. We got McDermott six again, 4444 listening on one. Oh, that's, that's a double. He can give us a double boost. Oh,

thank you. Kyron,

through satchel. Richards, 1111, through fountain. He says, wow, there's some really amazing music making its way into V for V feels like the quality and, dare I say, diversity.

Oh no, oh no, oh no, not the D word. Heard

it on podcasting 2.0 very nice. See you got gene Everett, 5000 stats through fountain. Anyone else hate that? Fountain went full nostr. Now I'm not following half my old peeps, plus new version keeps glitching like it's two years ago. Just me, ooh, I don't know. Well, I know Oscar did a big update. Yeah, no, it's a lot of stuff, yeah.

I mean this, it's always hard. I applaud what, what Oscar is doing. You know, he took a real bold move. Said, Okay, I'm going to serve this community and make it available to others if they want to come in, it's and so, you know, I'm sure he knew that he was going to alienate some people in some ways, that just happened. So I applaud that kind of, that kind of risk taking.

Is it doing? Am I misunderstanding or is it doesn't this eventually resolve itself when, when everybody's like, switches to just get an it's not like, if you're in Fountain, it's not like you have to be on nostr No fountain is just, they've just switched their internal messaging format to be that. But that does, that shouldn't affect you. No. It

affects what you see in your home feed. Okay, so when you open the app now, you're seeing a lot of nostr messages, which is heavy Bitcoin.

Okay, so you're seeing nostr messages come into your fountain fee from outside of the fountain universe.

I don't know where it's coming from. Well, let me just see. Let me just check right now, because I subscribe to all kinds of stuff in Fountain. And let me see what I see when I go to the home screen. I'm just taking a moment to load. Okay, so I see guys roundtable Bitcoin and, uh, uh, well, homesteading, oh, maybe it's changed. None of your business. The the soul

chat said it shows anything with a fountain or wave or wave like link from nostr.

It's actually it's gotten less noisy, but you know so what I did, and this is probably my fault, I use my existing nostr credentials, so whatever I was following on, nostr is now. Going to start showing up. So I yeah, what? I don't know. I don't know what it looks like if you come in with a, if with a fresh, uh, noster ID, so which is just, I just realized that now it's like, Oh, I know all these people. Why do I know these people? Oh, okay,

I haven't done so here's where I'm at when I when I saw the change, I stopped, and I haven't done anything yet. And and so when I just fired it back up, I when I just, when I just fired it up, and now what I get is a message at the top saying, connecting, connect noster for cross app Activity. Activity on fountain is now powered by noster. Create a nostr account or connect an existing account to interact with other users, right? And I get and I get two options. I get connect nostr

Yeah. So if you click on your profile, find your followers, find people you followed previously on fountain before connecting, Nasser to continue seeing their activity. So I that's that may be new. I hadn't seen that either. So you can do, find my followers, and then you can find, find my followers, or find my follows.

Find your fault, find people who that's like all listening fountain before connecting. It's definitely

a lot less noisy than it was, because I was seeing all of the the the reposts and everything and so that that seems to be less noisy now. So, like, it's actually pretty good. Now, let's see it,

if I would, if I would have, if, if they had, if Oscar had auto created my profile and then said as a nostr profile, and then said, Hey, if you want to connect your existing nostra profile, you can do it this way. Yeah, right. I think right now I'm kind of forced to make a choice that I'm not sure afraid to make,

yes, and I made it. And initially was difficult, but I don't know, no, but now it's settling down. Yeah, it does seem to be settling

down. I feel, I feel like that'll like once as all of the fountain user maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I feel like as as all the fountain users do this process, then eventually it kind of goes back, similar to the way it was before, right? But with just some extra stuff in the feed.

Also you can select people you're following or global. I hadn't done global yet, so, yeah. Anyway, there's definitely stuff working. Gene,

never. 3333 through fountain. He says, I hate this. Nostr comment format, like, I hate it.

Okay, thanks for the positive feedback.

Gene, not. Gene, not a fan of the new nostra stuff, and found gene Everett again, 50,000 Sasser found and he says, so now we can't boost comments, man, I wish I had never updated to the legs to have version. I really had fun on fountain, and it seems like it was finally working well after early years being buggy. But now I can't boost comments. Nostra sucks. So maybe

I know, maybe you should have a friendly conversation with a developer. And although we love, we love the boost. It's, it's kind of harsh, you know, when you're working on an app and people are, you know, bitching and moaning on other shows about it, and just saying,

yes. I mean, shoot, shoot. Oscar an email, maybe he can explain what's going on,

yeah, and try not to use the word hate or sucks. Try to be positive. You know,

we got the commentary blogger delimiter, 26,000 SATs through fountain. He says, howdy, Dave and Adam howdy. Some podcasts about podcasting are made by Grifters from mainstream media who are just pretentious pricks. Some other are genuinely useful for all podcasters. Example, School of podcasting podcast that you can [email protected] a useful podcast by Dave Jackson, cousin of Michael Jackson.

Boost of the week.

Please subscribe to it, to polish your pod, to polish your podcasts. Oh, he I see what you did there to polish your podcast. Bros, yo. CSB, PS No. Ai, no. AI was used to compose this Bitcoin. Gram, not even yesterday, released high IQ, chat, GPT, 010, okay.

You know, comic strip bloggers never going to die. The AI will just take over, and it'll just continue boosting us. And just, you know, for. The rest in perpetuity. That's

what he's been building for. That's his life. That's like his magnum opus. Yes,

he'll reproduce himself,

so that when he dies nobody will know. Yeah, maybe he's already dead. Who knows? He may have died during the pandemic. We still know it.

Careful now, because he's gonna get all huffy about it. I am not dead. What are you talking about? That is not nice to talk that way about me. See

it now. CSB is current. See it. What constitutes the the physical manifestation of CSB currently is, is a tower PC with about 5g with like five NVIDIA GPUs. That is basically what CSB is. No, this is corporeal self. Now

I can already, I can already see him composing the toot. No, I use, I use Azure,

whatever, AMD, whatever, whatever. We got some. See, we got some monthly. See, here we got basil. Phillip, $25 Thank you basil. Saying, maybe it's basil, it's probably, probably Yeah, basil, yeah, basil. Phillip, $25 Hey, I'm from Alabama. Lauren ball, $24.20 Thank you, Lauren. Thank you. Lauren Mitch Downey, $10 Thank you Mitch. Christopher harabarik, $10 Terry Keller, $5 silicone florist, $10 Chris Cowan $5 Yaron Rosenstein, $1 Paul Saltzman, $22.22 Thank you.

thank you all very much. That's great. Good group. Value for value. The whole project here. Go to podcastindex.org read all about it right there on the homepage. And we get the bottom you see a red donate button that is for your Fiat fund coupons. Or if you're listening to this in a modern podcast app, you can boost us at any time. We

that the one Chad ethling today? Yes, yes.

They start off with, tell me what value for value is, and they nail it. All of them. They get it completely. Especially DJ Valerie B love I think is that her name, she's pretty cool. Yeah, very cool. And thank you. Thank you everybody. We really appreciate it. This is a public service. Is a public boardroom. Everybody is welcome. We do every single Friday, except around tax time. We make things a little shorter. It's about two hours all right, brother, get back to work. Get

I just realized something I wanted that that I had forgotten to put on my notes to talk about. And Dang it, we'll have to talk about next week. You

want to give a

teaser? No, no, it's, it's no, it's too much to get into. Well, yeah, it's too much to get Okay, yeah,

something really complicated is coming up next week. All right, brother, have yourself a great weekend. Dave, all right, Timmy and the same. To the boardroom. Thanks for being here on podcasting 2.0

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visit podcast index.org for more information. Go podcasting. Polling is for pussies. You.