Episode 192: Lunchroom Quickie

Podcasting 2.0 for September 6, 2024, episode 192, lunchroom. Quickie. Well, hello everybody. Hello boardroom. Welcome to podcasting 2.0 your weekly board meeting where all things podcasting are discussed. You want to know what's really going on. You want to tune into this one. If you're a nerd, you're in luck. We are the only boardroom that meets during

a fun that that cashews, this, this bowl of cashews here, if you can hear it,

yes, I hear your cashews, your cashews. Yes, your cashews.

It's, it's like a, it's like a quick trail mix to go along with the beef shake. And it's like cashews and raisins, you know, why

don't you fiber? Why don't you just mix it all into one so you can have the cashews ground right into your beef shake. No,

the cashews are soft so I can chew them. And, you know, mostly don't hear me, but

you might have a new product if you if you could do that, it might be something that could be marketable. Hey, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm always thinking,

it's like Bill, it's like Bill Maher said about like young people thinking that communism is great

socialism. I don't know if they think comedy is socialism. Probably some

do, some do comrade. But I mean, like that. He said, you know, just because an idea is new doesn't mean it's great. You can. What was this thing, he said you can cook in the bathroom and shit in the kitchen. It's a new idea, but

I haven't listened to a Bill Maher podcast in a while, to be honest. He

got, he got on a string of stuff I wasn't interested in, so I kind of he fell out of my rotation. Oh,

yeah, that happens if he's on the floor. I'm here in Mexico, in the hotel room. And I'm always Mexico, yes, I'm always, we're on vacation. Quotes, air quotes, vacation. I'm always amazed that it kind of works. And this is the new rig. This is, this is the new machine that you recommend that I get, which is, oh, it's the Lenovo ThinkPad, the Oh, yeah, Milka, yeah. It's great. Now here's what happened yesterday, though, I'm a little concerned.

Wait, by the way, I'm sorry I could not make it to your surprise party. I wasn't.

I know you were. I know I could

not make it because Melissa was out of town that that same weekend, buddy, stay with my daughter. It's

more than okay,

I tried. Man, I tried. I

know you did. Tina's like Dave, Dave, really tried. Dvorak didn't even answer the email invite. I said, Yeah, that makes sense. There's a difference in my podcast. Pardons, it was, I gotta tell you. Man, I was blown away. I was surprised. There were people from all over the country who came in for it on Labor Day weekend, no less, on Friday. My plan

was to do the My plan was to do the show and then hop on a plane and then hop on a plane immediately and try to get there. I couldn't find anything that was going to work, so I was trying to figure out how to do it halfway from a hotel room, because you would, because if it was on the same day as the show, so if I'd have missed the show, yeah, I

would have something. Yeah, it was for those who don't know, my wife threw me a surprise party for my 60th birthday, and literally invited 60 people from all over the country, and they came those

who I didn't know. She invited 60 people. Like, that was the magic. That's funny, yeah.

So it was, it was good. It was really good.

Anyway, what were you saying?

Yeah. So I set everything up here, and I had already tested out the rig at home, of course, you know, which always involves a an interesting combination of USB hubs and figuring out which port to put stuff in. There was a little moment of fear, as for some reason one of the rodecaster duo ports didn't come up, like, oh God. And then so I figured it out. Then I get here, and I set it all up again, and I noticed,

know, everybody wants, everybody's you. What's killing the planet is everybody's USB ports. Yeah, that's, that's wonderful, exactly.

And so I click those both off, and we do the show. It's fine. And then maybe 15 minutes later, after we're done with the show, the USB port had shut down again. So I'm like, oh, man, is there some time around? I mean, the thing that really changed, of course, is the rodecaster. So I don't know. And if you go search for USB problems with a rodecaster, that's an ugly search, because it's everywhere. It's just like, there's all kinds of and I think it's just a function of USB by

well, this you the so you're on the duo. Yeah, right now, yeah. I'll, you know, based on my experience and and the experience that I've heard through the grapevine of other people, the duo is kind of a fragile product. Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying it's bad or people shouldn't get it, but it's, it seems fragile. Well,

you know, these things are hard to make, and particularly if you're going to try, I tried it, you're going to try and make it work with all different kinds of USB devices. And of course, they have two USB devices which actually have three different, you know, there's one virtual device, which is the chat, which is what you know, is the built in mix, minus anyway, I decided before we started this show, I just reboot the rodecaster. Maybe that'll make a difference. And

I mean, I think, I think we get lulled into, based, based on how we grew up. We grew up with hardware that was the that where this had to say this. We grew up with with hardware that had its logic. Its logic was arranged as a series of tubes, tubes, tubes, or chips, or it was, it was do. The hardware itself was doing the logic. But yeah, now that

no, that's true. And also Linux and, and, yes. And then there's another problem, which we've run into, as we've been testing stuff, you know, been working together for 15 years, building all kinds of projects. You get used to as an old school computer user who comes from that world, you get used to workarounds, and then you just use that workaround. And you're so used to using the workaround that, you know, things are fixed or have been updated or improved, and like,

oh, man, one of my favorite episodes of John. G's called causality show. Podcast is where he taught he goes over this radiation machine that was, it was x ray it was x ray machine, some sort of imaging machine that ended up giving people horrible cancer, nice and the RE and the reason was because there was a specific, I mean, he gets all into the

Yeah, exactly. And we've even he had that with the freedom controller. If you're there was something I was doing, like, what? What are you doing? I was like, Well, I do it this way. You can just hit command. L, oh, really,

yeah, for, let's be honest, the freedom controller is mostly that, yeah,

yeah. So one

of these days I'm going to rewrite that thing from scratch, and it's going to end like with modern things, and it's going to be amazing, yeah, maybe

that'll be our retirement. I'm not too bullish. I'm not too bull. Hey, I use it every single day. It's a part of my life. So I love the freedom controller. And by the way, that's, that's some software, man. I mean, I didn't even have the login anymore. I don't think you have that running on a server somewhere. And from time to time, you know, you'll go in and look, and it's been up, you know, uptime 700 days or something. It's just, it's a it's a beast. I

have not read. I'm gonna, after the show, I'm gonna log in and see what the uptime is on on that machine of yours. I bet you it's years rock years rock

solid. My brother, that's the Dave Jones experience right there. It does not go down. So just before I started getting everything set up, you know, I saw this, and this just it made me sad, at the same time, made me very happy because of this project that you and I started for this very reason. Was it almost Is it four years? Now, I've been doing this for four years. Is it four years? Started in August of 2020, so more than four years? Wow.

There you go. You're in the heart of the pandemic. Man So Todd Cochran,

CEO of blueberry, blueberry says it has been the biggest week in a long time of show and episode takedowns at everyone's beloved podcast platform. I'm going to think he's talking about Spotify, maybe. And he says everything we could review has us asking why we cannot see everything they've pulled. But one thing is for sure, the political content is the focus. So there they are, de platforming episodes and shows and again, I'm just, I'm going to presume, not assume, but

I think, I think I mean it. I think it's clearly Spotify that I want to feed of that so bad. I hope he does this. That's

what you proposed the the BlackBerry list. It's great

Blackberry, yeah, I need, I need this list because I want to see, like, an update in my podcast app, of all the weird things that they do platform and try to, it's like a game. You got to try to figure out why they did it.

It's, it's so asinine and and again, it just proves that all these modern apps that that aren't, uh, on any Silicon Valley you know, owned index. They are, they are the literal freedom of speech platforms, or apps, or whatever you want to call systems, because your speech is not, is not shuttered. It's just, it's crazy. And I don't know, I You never really hear anything about it, except this. In this

I would, yeah, I mean, you would feel like a you would feel like that's your duty to tell them, because they've been just removed from a major platform, you know, and you're hosting their show. Because if they just come to you and say, Hey, this was where's my show, it's not showing up. Then you're like, well, it got taken down, and we knew about it, but we didn't tell you there's almost like, a more kind of, like a moral, you know, or an ethical thing, where you feel like you

must be happening to everybody. Yeah. And I remember when there was a time when there was a couple of people tried putting no agenda episodes up on YouTube and, you know, just the audio. And I think one guy at some point was actually doing chapter images, and, you know, making quite a production of it. And one by one, these people would finally email me and say, you know, I got three strikes now on your no agenda episode. So, so I have to stop, because it's ruining my account. Yeah,

is that like the innate in Eclipse guy? Remember that, um, where he would do, like, little short, like, no, he was, this

is full episodes, which I was fine with. You know, hey, if you want to maintain that, I don't care you. Go ahead, you as long as you don't enable monetization and and one by one, these would get taken down. And for what I mean, we're just two old dudes, what are we doing? And, you know, Tina got put in Instagram jail.

Instagram jail. Didn't even know there was an Instagram jail? Yeah,

she got put an Instagram comment jail. So she, she, of course, this is my wife, so she, she, you know, of course, posted stuff about the the party, and then she says, Oh, I can't comment even on my own posts. So what do you mean? Well, they're saying, you have a time out. You can't post comments for a week. I said, What did you do? Because I don't know, yeah, what district? They won't tell they'll never tell you. They'll never tell you. That's the crazy thing. It's

Yeah, I would, I would like to, I would like to hear from it that that shows you, okay, that right there, shows you the difference. It just kind of dawned on me that shows you the difference between podcasting and every other thing, yeah, is you're in, you're you got deeply, you know, you got muted on Instagram, and so you can't post there, and that's just it. You're done. So you, I mean, you're, you're toast, yeah, with podcasting, you got removed off Spotify. Did anybody even notice?

Yeah, right, that's a good point,

because you now, you still show up in 47 other podcasts, exactly, but eventually, and and on your own website,

you know, eventually people will figure it out. Like, you know, maybe I should be promoting, maybe I should be promoting, you know, different apps for people to listen to my show on, you know,

like, What do you mean?

Well, if, if you know, you don't want people getting used to listening to you on Spotify, and then all of a sudden, one day, you're gone, you know, or anywhere or anywhere. That's that's controlled by anyone else but you and your feed. I mean, that's that's the beauty of it. That's the beauty of what we've done here, which is good.

And Melissa sent me an episode of a podcast the other day of the she wanted me to listen to. And I was like, I was like, Yes, send it to me. And so she texted to me, and it was a Spotify link. And I was like, oh,

oh, I get those. What do you do? I don't even click on those anymore. If someone sends me a link to a podcast on Spotify, I'm like, I just don't answer. I'm like, I'm not clicking on that. And

like this. This hurts me. It hurts my heart. You know,

especially from your wife. Man, what's wrong with her? I

know I was personally offended. So she's using

Spotify to listen to podcasts, and she's married to the pod sage. I

know I had to go check her CO two monitor to make sure the room wasn't too hot.

You know, I've Tina's on on on fountain. She's been on fountain forever. She likes it so she she's good, yeah, but she was listening, I think probably on Apple previous to that. And

I got, I got work to do, man, while we're

on it, I want to remind everybody, if you're having an issue with an app, getting it into the App Store, because I got another one of these emails. There's been two this month so far, the two in the past two weeks where the App Store kicked the second, yeah, the App Store kicks it back. Indie hub, the App Store kicks it back and says, You need permission to access this content, which I do not

you'll just sail right through. Yeah, that. I think they have a little wheel when they do approval that they just spin it and they say, Okay, what? What are we going to ding you on? And it's because, because 10 podcast apps can submit that use the index. You know, four of them will get dinged in this way, and six of them will just have no issue. I don't understand it can be all of them, because we've only needed to do this for maybe three or

four. Yeah, it's like, All right, everybody, here's another submission. And oops, that's not the one. Oh, man, that's not what I wanted to do. Ah,

no, you screwed it. I did. I do monitor. Here we go, everybody, let's see. Do we want

to approve this app or not? Round around, it goes. Let's see. Oh, seems like they're accessing other people's content. No, I don't think we can do that. Computer says no. Bombshell, yeah,

I finally got there. You got there. It was worth it. Wait. What am I doing?

So we

my phone automatically bluetoothed over to the rodecaster.

Oh, cool. I had that. Oh, that's interesting. All sudden, some

sort of play. And I was like, What is this? Oh, by the way, I wonder if I can pull this up. Actually, this is kind of convenient, because

are you going to play something from your phone. This, this will go well, let

me see if, can you see? If you see, if you can, can you hear this? First of all,

no, because no, because you could, because you're not connecting with the with the chat to the chat interface, I can hear it softly in the background. Can you turn it up? Maybe it's just there you go.

Is it? Yeah, yeah.

That I had the pleasure of introducing these guys with their debut. This was lifetime. How they're doing it, either Todd

Howe car thinks they can. I wasn't prepared for it, but I was listening to sounds like me. It is you I was listening to. I know this is the old bootleg from the bootleg dance party episode. From

the days, not here dance party, the three hour episode, yeah,

from March of 2023, that just, I was testing the new overcast and and it just had, it was in my upload. So I'll listen to that and listen to it for a while. And it sounds like during the whole episode, it sounds like your your mouth is swollen, or some really, you're sure you're talking right, yes, and I never noticed that. I wonder if that was during your dinner. I was just about to say

probably was. It probably was during my dental, uh, my dental escapades.

Yeah, you're you're something was definitely not right with with you, with your voice, your

version. Well, thanks. I feel better now. Sorry about that, now that I have a bootleg out there that sucks.

That's a classic. That's the unlimited the bootleg from, you know, recording that nobody will ever have a copy of. So

this week, an episode of our favorite hate listen came out, which it was so now I'm gonna say something that may sound sound unkind, but it's not meant that way. Please. I listen. So there's a couple of podcasts. I listen to religion, religiously. Pod News Daily. Every single day I listen to it. I don't think I ever skip one. And I realize that it's kind of like and I also, I think every day I will take a look at CNBC.

exactly what I brought a PowerPoint, yeah,

but I think we should talk about this, because this seemed to me, there's a lot of interesting things in here, because it was only if was it 15 minute episode?

If that 11 minutes? Yeah, it

seemed like this was probably a fair representation of the state of the podcast, industrial complex as it is today.

There's a lot packed into 11 minutes of this, of this episode, and it was kind of like, as soon as I heard it, I was like, whoa. We're gonna have to go back and deconstruct a little bit of this. It's interesting from a lot of different perspectives, not just from the, you know, not just of the industry, but but on sort of the internal workings of a show like that itself too, yeah, and the state of public radio and

okay, here we go. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. What if comparing car insurance rates was as easy as putting on your favorite podcast with progressive it is. Well,

first of all, why am I hearing this

hiss? Yes, I'm

hearing hiss in that clip.

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. What if comparing car insurance rates was as easy as putting on your favorite podcast with progressive it is,

well, that almost sounds like room noise. It sounds like room noise.

It wasn't though I pulled it directly out of the mp three. I just chopped it up with Audacity,

then I'm going to say that's not AI that was. And I think I kind of recognized the voice. I don't think that was aI I would I don't think they can, they can do that. They would hate themselves so much. That's the only thing they have to do over there is talk. They're going to replace that with computers. I don't think so.

But supposedly, these, these are based on what they say during the show. These are, like, piped in,

really,

this is piped in, you know, copy so they don't, I don't think they read this in house with one of their peoples. They just got this from the advertiser, I guess. Let

me listen to it again. Let

me see this episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Now, that does sound kind of fake. What if comparing car insurance rates was as easy as putting on your favorite podcast? Yeah,

you know, if I was producing this, I'd say, you've got to reread that, because this is listen to how this reads. This

episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, I'd

be like, Please, let's do it again. This episode was brought to you by Progressive Insurance. That's what I would that's what I would suggest. And then I'll use the next piece. What

if comparing car insurance rates was as easy as putting on your favorite podcast? I'd

say, Let's do that again. What if? What if comparing insurance rates was as easy as putting on your favorite podcast, there's no inflection here with progressive

there's, it is, yeah. No, it is, yeah.

It would be sounds. AI to me, yeah, I think you're right, but, but whatever's going on, there's, there's some kind of hiss or room noise in there that should not be in there,

huh? That's, that's interesting. Number one, so, like, the whole, this whole episode is about them. Supposedly, it's about them switching to How to Host red ads. That's what this is about. Well, there's

a there's a lot going on in that episode. Like, hey, you know, the part that I liked was advertisements, or what we call sponsorships. Oh, okay, so All right, there you go. It's advertising, yes,

and maybe, I mean, just based on that ad that pre roll, maybe it's not that you weren't doing host red ads. Maybe that's not. Maybe part of it is that your ads that you're piping in suck. Well,

I would reject if I was that bad, if I was the client or if I was the agency, I would have rejected that. I said, you need to reread that. That's not exciting. It's it's dull, it's boring. There's no inflection. So whether it's AI or not, I would have rejected it.

And the and pre roll number two on that episode was a house ad for radio lab. So that's not encouraging, right? Yeah? Like that. That would have been a better. They should clip that out of this show that would have been a better. Yes.

Him sorry, but,

like, okay, so, but clip two is, he's talking about, we're gonna, you know, they're gonna, they're gonna do host red ads. Now

we're gonna have a conversation, you and me about something that we're doing at the show that's kind of big. Yeah, it is big. And wow, Dave, I'm

hearing that same room noise in these clips.

It's not my stuff.

I'm inclined to believe you at all times well,

caster duo,

I don't think so. I'll listen through it. We're going

to have a conversation you and me about something that we're doing at the show that's kind of big. Yeah, it is big, and that decision is for us hosts to start reading some of the ads that listeners will hear on the podcast, not on terrestrial radio. Of course, that's got different rules now we haven't read the ads on the podcast until now, and there's a really good, if obvious reason why we're about to, okay,

hold on a second. This is bugging me, really. It really is.

I don't know what that could be. Let me listen to it on my side and see what it sounds like. Let me

just let me see if I can pull out that episode in pod verse that's really bugging me. I don't understand it.

Yeah, I get it on my copy too, of the clip, so it's not something coming from your side. Let me just let me get a podcast

on media. Hold on. Here it is. Latest Episode. Let me just play it from here.

Okay. Listeners support it. WNYC studios, I hear it already.

Welcome to the midweek on the media Podcast. I'm Rick glass, wow. And I'm what are they recording

that? Where are they recording this? That doesn't even sound like a like a studio. Hey, Brooke,

hi Micah for this week's podcast. Wow, they're

recording that their desk or

something. They got together in the lunchroom for a quickie.

I saw that, please.

I don't know. I don't know what that I mean, like, that's not their typical, no, that's not their PP said, maybe it's over zoom. Maybe they did a zoom call. Oh,

man, that's really bad. Well, anyway, let's listen to it again and we'll just try and forget the horrible, you know what? No wonder no one wants to advertise on that show. It sounds like crap. We're gonna

have the audio guy. The audio guys, the last round of layoffs.

All right, you guys, here's a pod Mike, everybody. You can do it. Good luck. It'll be great. Don't worry, you can do this. Podcasters all over the world do this. You guys can too.

We're gonna have a conversation you and me about something that we're doing at the show that's kind of big. Yeah, it is big, and that decision is for us hosts to start reading some of the ads that listeners will hear on the podcast, not on terrestrial radio. Of course, that's got different rules now. We haven't read the ads on the podcast until now, and there's a really good, if obvious reason why we're about to

wow. Okay, that's really surprising.

So the question is, why? Because a really good reason,

because advertisers aren't getting enough return on investment from dynamic ad insertions is my guess.

Yeah, the the the first this, the first part of the answer is sort of a hand wave. He says, you know, he's, he's like, you know where, you know, blah, blah, blah, D, Dai, and then this, but the second part is where, where all the action is, and that's, that's clip three.

Recently, some outlets like current and CNN have reported that this month, in mid September, our producing station, WNYC, plans to cut at least 8% of our workforce again, again, yes, and this is after a substantial round of cuts. This time last year. Last year, we lost a producer, so did some of our other shows, and we lost friends around the station too. They're gone now. They're

gone, vaporized.

Yeah, the audio gal was the first Yes, it's obvious.

I think, I think you're spot on with that. They fired the actual, they say producer, but it's really the guy who set him up and does the engineering. This is, this is very disappointing from NPR, somebody.

So now they just got, now they're just telling each other what Mike is telling Brooke. Hey, Brooke. Turn up your Yeti Blue, just turn it a

little bit hard. That's it. Yeah, you blue, yeah. Why did she laugh? That's a very good point. Cotton Gin. These are worth analyzing. I'm gonna pick apart every single breath and sentence in this recently,

some outlets like current and CNN have reported that this month, in mid September, our producing station, WNYC, plans to cut at least 8% of our workforce. Well,

this is okay, so this is interesting. Instead of saying, you know, here at NPR, we've made decisions, no, they're saying other news outlets are reporting that we are going to cut our staff.

Yeah, I noticed that that's an

interesting way of announcing this news. Let's listen to the next

Yeah. I don't know how to take that either, because it was they're as if it's as if they're not, as they're talking about themselves in the third person, as if they themselves are not part of this, of their own lives. Or, I think it's weird, or, how

about this? Maybe they didn't know about it. They heard it from CNN and current. Why? I don't know why they mentioned current, and they're pissed that they had to hear it from other sources.

Oh, and so maybe that's why they got it. Maybe that's why they did the lunchroom quickies, because they were, this is sort of a, you know, they're

going rogue. Yeah, that's why it was only an 11 minute episode. It's rogue. Let's go. Let's show these guys what this is. Horrible. The I can't believe they're doing that, and they and it's all over the place. Everyone's talking about it. Let's do an episode, and let's be critical of them. And

again, again, yes, and this is after again.

That's not very funny. Brooke, she's laughing

again, a lot of unexplained, unexplained chuckling in this that I don't understand. It's horrible

when, when you're when people get fired and you have to downsize. It's not a laughing matter, although she still has a job. Maybe that's why

she's laughing again, again, yes, and this is after a substantial round of cuts. This time last year. Last year, we lost a producer, so did some of our other shows, and we lost friends around the station too. They're gone now,

wow, so is it no Are they no longer friends when you don't work with them? Brooke, they're gone. Now I don't talk to them anymore. I've removed them from my speed dial,

so the chop and drop is in full effect, yeah, at NYC and NPR in general. I mean, in this, the the reason for the chop and drop, he's going to give he's he's going to go into a a brilliant economic analysis here. I'm

not going to pretend to be some

Sorry. No good.

No, I was, I was going to add to that, that we should probably mention that you know that a year ago, I mean, NPR over hired in their podcast division because of the incredible, hyped up market that existed on the, you know, the tail end of the pandemic. And of course, it was, it was a great time for podcasting. It was everyone was either listening to a podcast or making a podcast, and supposedly doing both. And they just over hired, thinking, This is it. You know, it's, it's

been saying that, I've been saying this for a while, is that the the bizarre thing about NPR and these public radio shows is that they still show up in the top of all the charts. Yet they've, they've, like, essentially fired most of their staff. They're not they're showing up in the top of the charts, but they're not making any money. Yeah, that's troubling.

I'm not going to pretend to be some ad expert, but the economy is funky, and for all kinds of reasons, companies are spending less money on advertising, and that is really hurt WNYC,

the economy is funky.

Yes, this is the economic analysis. One economy is funky, Funky. It's and then, and also all sorts of reasons. Yeah, those are the those are your two

You mean, like companies aren't making money. People are having a hard time making ends meet. Prices are through the roof. And advertise. There's been a pullback in advertising, although you wouldn't know it.

Those are the reasons. These are reasons.

I'm not going to pretend to be some ad expert, but the economy is. Chunky and for all kinds of reasons, companies are spending less money on advertising, and that is really hurt WNYC. I know it's hurt all kinds of media, but it's really had an outsized effect on the podcast industry.

hmm, these, all these shows, he mentions, they all have too many people. They all have, yeah, they all have one thing in common. They're, they are way over staff, staffed and over, over produced for what they are, yeah, that they have too much overhead, and you it's not sustainable that the change let me, I'll cut to the I'll jump to the end real quick, just to say that I think the real change that's going on here harvested, at least they have a joy department. Yes, they do.

hey. But good news, you're fired. Good news your joys are

the the the change is not from is not host red. The real change they're talking about is not host red versus automatic insertion. Yeah,

it's, it's the real downsizing.

The real change here is pre roll versus mid roll. That's what they're going to be changing. That's what's coming they're gonna put, start putting the ads in the show. It like on the media, which is a, you know, on the media always has a pre roll and a post roll. They don't interrupt the show midway through, yes, because that goes against what's gonna happen. That

goes against our journalistic ethics.

Yeah, yeah, exactly which they were, which the they

no, it happened. The the USB crapped

out. No, let

me see if I reboot boot. No, I have to it. I can, I can bring the USB back up. Wow, this sucks, but then I have to essentially restart M airlist Again,

so maybe I can play it for a month. No, I'm

doing I got it. I'm already there.

I'm already good, yeah,

here we go. I'm

gonna eat some notes. Here it is, right?

But as a public radio show, we're not just relying on ad money. It's just an area where we have some potential for growth. We still have the membership model. That's when listeners, like you guys, support us, and that still is our most reliable source of funding.

I don't believe that. I think that's a lie. The most reliable source of funding from NP. I knew the the CEO before this one and the and LaFontaine, and that was ya Ramon, also known as Lee Masters, because he's the guy that hired me at MTV. And he was, he was Lee Masters, was his DJ name but wmmr,

it's a great name. It's almost as good as John Holden, but yeah, no, I

like Lee Masters. Lee Masters. Hey everybody, it's Lee Masters. Wmmr, hit radio. So he became the he became the CEO, and I met him at some conference a long time ago. I don't remember where it was. Was, and it was nice just to catch up with them, of course, because we hadn't seen each other for many, many years. And he said, You know, I'm probably going to retire. He actually had some health issues. I think he even had a heart attack after he left. And he says, but I'm

But this is WNYC, though she's talking about, not NPR, the mothership. So that may I believe, I believe that direct support is probably a big part of their stuff.

Nice. I still think that it's an NPR station, so I still think that they get a lot of their funding, particularly from these, from the NPR programming through the well, that's actually a good point, because NYC is a content producer as well as a station. So maybe it's just, we're really just talking out of our buttholes here. But maybe it's, maybe it's just the production budget that they just don't have the budgets anymore because, I mean fresh air. I mean that's,

right? But as a public radio show, we're not just relying on ad money. It's just an area where we have some potential for growth.

What a lie, Brooke,

we still have the membership model that's when listeners like you guys support us, and that still is our most reliable source of funding.

Well,

I disagree with you. No, I disagree with you. I believe her. I think she's because if we look at Spotify earnings, that clearly shows that they're that so much of their budget comes from their their actual revenue comes from Premium subscribers. It their the ad money cannot support it alone. Yeah, like they cannot. If I believe I believe her 100% that she's that she is saying that donation, without the donations, they would be completely toast. Well, she's

saying something else. She's saying reliable. So I would agree that people sign up for monthlies and that it's reliable, but people also, you know, when they when times get tough, they stop their sustaining donations. So I think it's reliable, because it's constant, but it has to be going down.

Yeah, that's, yeah, that's possible, yeah, and she's and they're trying to boost the advertising so that they can smooth, smooth it all out across the board. But the, you know, clip six is an interesting one, because it's obvious this conversation is it's meant to sound off the cuff, off the cuff, but it's very scripted. And to me, this is where we kind of get into the meat of things.

Our issue is that a show like on the media, a show about the news that's deeply edited, that features original reporting that isn't just like a couple people sitting around a table shooting the breeze like this is an expensive show to make. I think that's why it's really good, is that, is that we have really smart people, and we compensate them fairly for, oh,

hold on a second. We're not just a couple of morons with microphones sitting around a table. You know, we've got professionals doing this work. You know, we have editing, we have in depth reporting. Well, why don't you use some of that incredible talent to make your your sound good?

Our issue is that a show like on the media, a show about the news that's deeply edited, that features original reporting that isn't just what

does deeply edited mean? Sorry, I'm sorry for interrupting this and picking it apart to this degree. But what does that even mean? It's deeply edited?

Well, the you know, he's we aren't like the other personality driven show where it's just two people talking it's not who we are. I mean, he's saying that, like, that's exactly who they are. They that, if you listen to on the meat, that's so funny, because they're supposedly about the media. They hardly ever talk about the media. They just. You're they call up the show is they call up somebody from a university, yeah, and ask them a bunch of questions. And that's the show.

Yeah, you're right. And by the way, no agenda. In three and a half hours twice a week, we play between 70 and 90 clips, and we do it live, so we there's no deep editing, but there's real work that goes on there. Anyway, there we go. Our

they're essentially, they're essentially the same as these other two people talking shows, except their budget is 10 times higher, right?

Exactly, all right, and they like to compensate people fairly, yes, okay, our

issue is that a show like on the media, a show about the news that's deeply edited, that features original reporting that isn't just like a couple people sitting around a table

whoa, whoa, whoa, that's interesting. So first of all, they have really smart people, not just a couple of dummies, who sit around your personality driven and just talk and and because of that, they're making the money

shows and those I think, are having a bit of an easier time securing ad money, perhaps because they're not always talking about the news and because, and then I Just say it, Micah, it's because they're more commercial. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't want to speak too generally here. It's not a bad thing. It's just not what we are, yeah, okay, fair

enough. Well, whoa. This is, this is the best clip. So we're not commercial, and therefore we're surprised that we're not getting commercials. Hello, hello, hello, you said it. We're not commercial, not first of all, every single, every single podcast talks with two people and a microphone personalities is talking about the news. It may be sports news, it may be general news, it may be political news, they may be show business news. The world is news and and how this is tone deaf. Yeah,

they Yeah. They say. They say, Well, maybe those other shows are making more money because they just don't. They just avoid the news. Have you watched these shows? That's all they talk about. It's like that.

But she says, she says it. She says, Go ahead, Michael, say it. We're not commercial. There. We're not commercial. What does that mean? I listen to your podcast.

I really do that. Geico. That. Ai voice, Geico commercial at the very beginning. It sounds pretty commercial to me. Yeah,

bit of an easier time securing ad money, perhaps because they're not always talking about the news, and because I just say it, Micah, it's because they're more commercial. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't want to speak too generally. Here. Not a bad thing. It's just not what we are, yeah, okay, fair enough.

It's not, we're not commercial. I don't understand what, what

is who we are. What

does that mean? We're not commercial.

Commercial. I mean, in that

take, they, take advertising. They, they're, are they a non profit? No

commercial definition. Uh, occupied with or engaged in commerce or work intended for for commerce, suitable, adequate or prepared for commerce. They have commerce all over the place. It's called, sponsored by but there's all kinds of companies who want to be associated with their I would say Commercial Content, and they've been the podcasts of it advertising from, I think, almost day one. Well, not, no, that's not true. But once podcast advertising kind of

Yeah, the real issue is they've isolated themselves. They've isolated themselves into, like an into an ideological corner. There it is. And your content is scripted and not very and not exciting. It so, I mean, that's, that's the issue. It doesn't have to do with commercial versus non commercial, or whether you talk about the news or don't continue to talk about the news. It's just, it's just sort of a boring, ideological corner, even people who are hard, partisan

maybe, but at the same time, everyone's going through this, they're not unique. I think if anything, I just spilled my coke all over everything. If anything, yeah, don't worry. It'll just be sticky. If anything, they are. It is ideological. They they just, they hate advertising. They hate being the whole concept of being commercial. It just, you know, oh, we're better. It's a better than

Well, they, you said they have listeners, they have downloads. Well, that's, we don't that's, we don't know how many listeners. That's part of

the download metrics problem. We have a metrics problem. Well,

you know, because these, a lot of these NPR shows, go way, way back in podcasting. And it could be that, that they just are sort of still, they still have a wave of auto downloads that are historical in nature. And if, if there was sort of a great podcast reset that happened, and everybody had, everybody's playlist got wiped, and they had to start over today and resubscribe without a

good point, you know. And they have shows that are daily, and have a lot of, you know, really regular to maybe on the media. Think, is three times a week. And maybe the ad pocalypse hit them much harder than anybody else. It's it's Yeah, yeah. The download pocalypse, the download pocalypse, download

pocalypse, yeah. In clip seven, they talk about year of Jubilee, yeah, that's right. Nathan the the parasocial relationship. Now, this is a term. I have no idea what it means, and I have not looked it up, but they they talk about it in clips of

it, and there we go. I'm having a tough day today.

Man. USB, down,

yeah, hold on a second.

I don't know what.

I don't know what to do about this. I mean, this is, if this happens on Sundays, no agenda, it's going to be, it's going to be an issue. There's, there's some time out that is just, it's messing with me, all right. Clip seven, hold on a second. Yeah, maybe don't spill coke on it. Hey, thanks. Yeah. I'll jiggle the hand. Here we go.

I think what advertisers like about hoster Ed ads, what they like less about the kind of sponsorship ad where you have the like voice actor whose name we don't know, who reads the ad, is that advertisers they want to piggyback on the trust that audiences feel with their favorite personalities. You know what's often called the parasocial relationship, and so the fact that we have not read

do you think they mean by. Parasocial relationship.

I'm gonna have to look, I'm gonna have to look up the definition of that. See, parasocial. A parasocial means relating to a connection between a person and someone they don't know personally. Oh, okay, okay. That means, aren't the you never heard that, sir,

aren't it? Okay? I'm just gonna call bullcrap on this, isn't it? Purely because host red ads have a much higher CPM than inserted ads. And as you pointed typically, yeah, and as you pointed out, they're, they're gonna be in the show itself. They're not going to be, you know, just just pre rolls, it's going to be in the middle of the show, so in the middle of the content. That's always going to be a higher CPM. So what this, what this sounds like is, well, we want the advertiser

or for the AI, I mean that that AI voice in pre roll can't be paying that much. No.

I mean the pre rolls. Just don't, if I can, you know, from what I've heard from Todd, I think it's between, you know, maybe one and five bucks or something. It's it's not, it's not, it's not big. So,

you know what? Why do advertisers like host red ads, and why are they willing to pay so much more, so much higher of a rate for them, it's, you know, on they, they like to, they're, they criticized earlier these, quote, other conversation shows that are, you know, those shows, let's think about Rogan, uh, throw call her daddy in there. Um, Lex Friedman show. I

Yeah, Joe, I was gonna say, believe me, they're pissed about this because they're not going to get more money, and they have to do the worst thing, which is give up their journalistic integrity.

Yes, and that that's the thing, is you, you can't when you're listening to an edited show that's clearly edited and clearly scripted, there is no sense of connection there. You're not gonna, you're not gonna be able to get the same type of, sort of return on a host red from that type of show, because the there's a sort of, like, there's a distance there between the audience, and that distance has always been

it's the lunchroom where they're recording, so I guess I am allowed in there the commissary.

This is I feel, I feel like, I feel like the NPR hosts typically are going to shrimp cocktail parties in Washington, DC.

Shrimp deals with the chocolate fountain,

yeah, yeah, the fondue or whatever. But they get into the ethics of it, the, you know, the Chinese firewall, yeah, here we go.

Which is not to say that this has been some, like, super straightforward decision. We are thinking through the ethics of this, and we're trying to internally figure out what our boundaries are, which I'd like to ask you about. I mean, what do you think should be like, the basic rules for how we choose ads and how we read them?

Okay, stop, stop. Here's another. See, this is scripted. He is not winging this and saying, Hey, Brooke, I know I'm throwing this to you for the first time, and we've never discussed this before.

Let's go back to the beginning of our analysis here. This is an emergency episode. They decided to do themselves because they're not happy with what's going on here, and they've and this is what it comes down to. This is really what it's about. This piece here.

Well, I think we need to steer away from our coverage areas so that we don't raise eyebrows or. Questions about conflicts of interest. So that's pretty obvious. So no political ads, obviously, or ads from entities we're likely to cover, for instance, big media companies or the oil and tobacco industries, because we've covered their misinformation campaigns, and we may still, obviously, if you start reading ads, it could raise eyebrows and questions about conflicts of

Well, you're going to be pretty limited. Are they going to do pharma ads?

I just okay, you stole you stole it. You knew exactly where I was going, that the within, I guarantee that is the one thing they did not mention was Pharma. Yeah, I

yeah, which is pretty much the, okay, that's the modus operandi of television. Is what you're not advertising. Oh, well, ozempic seems to be killing people, but zepbound, oh, that's doing pretty good this.

They have not had a pharma ad. Within three months, there will be a there will be some ad about ozempic leading to more suicides, so, or something like that. So the

problem that NPR, or maybe they've recognized it, maybe not podcasting in general, you cannot create artificial scarcity because you're not on a 24 hour clock. They had it really good for, you know, 35 years, however, long NPR has been around, and the minute you get to podcast, advertising, there's no scarce scarcity. It's like we have unlimited inventory for as many people as download or listen to the show. It's

grants? Two different stories. Underwriting is, underwriting is, is down. It's down for everybody. I mean, this is, this is that. This is the area that is most down for us, is in, is in sponsorship, underwriting advertising. Call it whatever you want, yeah, call

it whatever you want. Yeah, it, that's what happens. 2017 is what I have on this clip. That may not be the original team. I think it's 2017 but I think it's, I think it's older than that. I'm not sure how long ago we played that, but yeah, that's what happens in a recession. It just happens. But, and if you have too many people, then people have to go. And if you think that you can make the same amount of money on podcasts just because there's some bogus release about then, of course,

oh, it's the Kelsey thing is, it's even worse. It's not even nerds, it's jocks. Yeah, that's even worse, jocks

and Swifties. So Well, welcome to the Welcome to podcasting NPR, where you take a vow of poverty to to make your programming. That's what it is. That's what it is. Try value for value. Try asking people say, hey, you know what? We put a lot of effort into this. Why don't you send this back, whatever it was worth to you. Man, would it be great if they just tried it? I think they would do great at it. They really, would. They really, really, would.

I think Nathan, I think Nathan gad in the in the boardroom is, I think he's spot on. It's a repeat of the fall of newspaper. And he says it's a repeat of the fall of newspapers playing out again. The firewall between the newsroom and the necessities of the business model isn't sustainable, correct? Yeah, I agree. And that firewall is not a firewall. It's just an impediment. And

all newspaper, almost all newspapers, are losing money, except one that I know of is the New York Times, because people are buying a game. They're buying a subscription to Wordle. And I think they're also in that package, getting the sports outfit that they bought, which is very specialized content that you can't get anywhere else, which is super firewalled. And, you know, sorry, they just not buying it for news. So, yeah, take a look at newspapers. NPR.

building. It's a huge, beautiful, modern building in downtown Birmingham, and it was the previous headquarters of the Birmingham News. And the Birmingham News built this building. I don't exactly, I don't remember what year, but it was maybe 2010 and within they built it right before the demise.

What a great time to do that. Timing people, yeah,

they must have spent $50 million on this building, and within two years they were, they were completely out of it, and now it's owned

by an insurance company. Oh, is it empty? Is anyone in it, or is it empty?

It's been no, it's, it's owned by an insurance company. Now, wow, yeah, but that mean it was the this feels the same way. It feels like it feels like going, it feels like what happened at the end, you know, leading up to the pandemic, and then the pandemic just sort of polished everybody off, with this sort of mass all we're going all in all the chips into podcasting. And then, yeah, rug pull,

and it's okay, but let's just admit it and move on. And by the way, yes, I like her voice. I'm not a big fan of her, just as a person, she seems very mean. I've, you know, I just don't like her, but I, I don't mind. I'll listen to you with the crappy audio. That's okay, if that's all that you can do. Ultimately, it's about the content. And, yeah, you'd want it to sound good. But I and I listened to it for different

Do you support? Never heard it? No. I've never missed an episode of On the media, and I've not missed an episode in probably two years, and I don't remember ever being asked for

money. Also, I want to support that show, and I don't want to support NPR in general, so give me those give me those options. NPR. Want

any of my money going to radio lab or whatever?

No, I'm with you there. All right, should we take a break and play a song? Just ease in, just a weekend. Okay, this comes from the value verse that's out there. And I love this track. Nice and easy. DJ, yo, oh yes, baby. How young were you?

I remember my mother singing this song. You Oh, let me try and sing it for you. I can't understand, oh, yeah, why your love is so put to me, oh, yeah, I can't understand why your love is so true to me. Ah. Oh, why your love is so wide. I haven't been the very best I could, but you still are so good. You wrote my name. You owe my name in the book of life. It is your gift, the gift of Jesus Christ, who can comprehend I cannot I know what you done for me.

that's right. See Brooklyn, one, 112 a Jesus song, that's

right. I get like a Destiny's Child.

Whitney, Houston, Destiny's Child. Yeah, yeah. I really like that song.

That's a good track. Yeah, I like that. I

mean, it sounds like real musicians, you know, sound like someone really blowing the horn there at the end. It was nice that the value verse has something for everybody.

That's your industry. Let's see, that's your six cent what? What did you say that podcast listeners are worth six cents per hour?

Six cents per hour? Yes, I have not, unfortunately, because, you know, I have been trying to do a bit of vacationing with my wife. I have not listened to pod news, weekly review, but I do know that Russell from Australia is is on the show this week, and he has started the pod fund. Have you been following this?

I've vaguely understand what, what it is some sort of like, some sort of pot where apps can or podcast app developers can apply for some funding. Well, is that the way it works? Yeah, I

think so. It's okay. It's interesting. So, and I really love the sentiment behind it. Of course, it's like, well, without podcast apps, hosting companies have less of a future, I think is kind of what he's saying. And the idea is that they have some kind of key that they so he says he's taking 5% of his gross revenue, giving that to podcast apps that based upon how many downloads they're seeing from each app. That's the

Well, on the media would qualify for that because they're not corporate.

No, it doesn't go to on the media. It goes to the app developers. Oh, okay,

my man, yeah, that's. Think that's, I mean, it's pretty neat idea. I mean, you would, and it's, if you have a relationship, I think the application type thing is kind of cool, because you have a relationship with the person, with the the developer, and, you know, that's because it's going to be honor system, and you would need to have that sort of relationship, though, that there's some trust built in there. That's a that's a neat idea. I like it. I mean, I'm a

I have to say it's been the hosting companies that have supported us with the most value for podcast index. I would Yeah,

absolutely, yeah, for sure. Yeah, Marco supporters for a long time. But I mean, other than Him, the bulk of the funding, you know, like that, those, like big chunks that we need to pay the the hosting bill every month that that has been hosting companies. So, yeah, I mean, it makes sense. And I mean hosting is, if you do it right, if you do hosting correctly, you can make money. Um, yeah, it's a good margin. It's got a good margin business. But you know, as long as you don't,

don't have any popular shows or offer video downloads, that seems to be a tough one.

Now, video, let's talk about video for a second, because, oh

no, we become the new media show. Can I be robbed? Can I be Rob? Please?

Yes. You pitch, you pitch yard stream, or whatever that thing called yard

stream.

What's it called?

You stream, yard stream,

yard. That's good. The so the video stuff, because me and you are working on the side project. And video, you know, is a piece of things, is a piece of podcasting. But, and Todd was talking about, I think last week, he was saying that, you know, he's going to take a risk, and he's going to go all,

yeah, unless You have some signal there. This is video. This is alternate. This is how I want you to access it, HLS, or whatever it is.

HLS, yeah, we need the alternate closure with an HLS stream in order for video to really work in podcasting, because nobody The other thing, nobody wants to download 15 gigabytes worth of podcast videos to their phone. So everybody's going to keep that on streaming, which is what it should be, because that saves the hosting companies the bandwidth. So these should all be stream first, type, type, me,

yeah, I, you know, I just find the whole thing wasteful. If people want to, want to do video, do video on YouTube or rumble or those are platforms, they're understood. Yes, technically, we can do it. We can also do PDFs in podcasts. You can do all kinds of things. I don't think the the apps are conducive, which will bring me to another point in a minute. It's, you know, I don't think video is killing audio. So I think there's a, there's a, you know, it's clear the demand for

Oh yeah, for sure.

You know it's, it's expensive, it's a pain in the butt. There's okay if you want to call a YouTube show, a podcast, do whatever you want. I think there's something different that we need to consider now you're done with video. Because, I mean, we can talk about this for until the cows come home.

Yeah, yeah, I'm done. I just, that's just, that's just the point is the video. I don't think video can work without a streaming, without a streaming solution, which is art, which has already been built. It's there. It's already works. Peer tube, peer tube combined with POD verse, Go, look. Go check it out. It works perfect.

Oh yeah. I mean, podcast guru does all. I'm surprised at all these things that pop up with video that people just jam and video like David Icke, yeah, he just does video pod. I don't even know how it works, but it just shows up and it works, and I wind up listening to it. I, you know, I usually just close the screen and I'm I don't care too much to

I was talking to a person the other day, and they said his wife was a marketing person who's just joined a new company. And he said that she was telling him that her boss was, like, had done this video, put it up on YouTube, and was just saying, like, you know, I've got, like, I've got over 1000 views on this video. It's great. And so she went in and started checking the stats, and, like, almost every one of the views was some sort of bot. And it was, like, one or two seconds

yeah, oh, there's that, yeah, there's that, yeah. I was, I can't find the article. I think Spurlock posted it, and it was, it might have been one of those Hollywood Reporter articles about the top podcasters, the top celebrities. And in this case, the article was about what it was like. It was about the apps. Was that pod news, you know, the biggest complaints in podcasting and and the top complaint was the apps. Did you see that?

No, I don't. I must have missed this article. Maybe

someone in the boardroom can find it for me, but I think, but there were a number of comments, and I have to say it was Kara Swisher at the top, another one of my favorites.

So this wasn't just average listeners. This was people in podcasting. People

in podcasting, yeah, and, and what they were kind of saying was, the apps are confusing. There's no way to find what's trending. There's, you know, there's no recommendations, a whole bunch of things that, you know, we have semi solutions for, and I just want, and it was, it was, it was enlightening, because they see a podcast app as a platform. So, you know, YouTube is a platform, and YouTube will

you mean, I think maybe what you're saying is that we, most of the independent, most of most of indie app developers in the podcast world, are fans of open source and free and open software, and you're saying that sometimes that goes so far that it limits their their ability, that limits their desire to do things that would maybe conflict with that. Here

it is. A Hollywood reporter. I found it okay. None of the apps are great. Colon top podcasters reveal biggest challenges. So these are the top podcasters say of it, what you will, with more people tuning in than ever. Theo Vaughn, Bill Simmons, Rachel Maddow, there you go and more. Explain what's still holding the medium back. Rachel Maddow, it was actually mad Oh, not Swisher, interchangeable. As far as I'm concerned. None of the apps are great. We don't just need

like a meritocracy, yes,

but how do you say meritocratic? Is it meritocratic? You said it meritocrat? Yeah. Meredith, we need a meritocratic way for the best and most relevant shows and episodes to circulate efficiently. It's hard for me to understand why we're still saddled with such uniformly clunky, unintuitive user interfaces at this point. This is a very good point. And even though it's coming from Rachel

Yeah. I mean, you can start with, I think, I think the problem might be, well, first of all, it's easy to criticism is easy. Solutions are hard, of course, and you know, and so I understand it's a valid criticism that she says that, you know, these, these interfaces are clunky, and that kind of thing that you're right that is valid at the same time trying to fit relevant information of that type onto a small device and present it in a way that makes sense, that

some other examples, some other examples. Fountain is hands down. The value for value when it comes to streaming, SATs and lightning payments is hands down. The app that everybody who understands what that is uses, they have differentiated themselves even further by integrating nostr. So they're going after a very particular audience that they believe will grow. Of course, it's also alienated people. A lot of people like, I'm not interested in that. So which is good and

Yeah? Yeah. I think, well, the smaller you get, the more rationale there is for being supported by that niche you serve. Right? Yes,

yeah, you should. Thank you. That's exactly right. It is the paradox. And so I think both pod verse and fountain started the development teams initially wanted to make clipping and sharing of podcasts easier, and I think both of them moved away from that, although pod verse has and I just evaluate, but what people send me, so if someone shares a clip with me from a podcast. It's almost always pod verse. It used to be overcast. That has changed now. Now it's pod verse for

But I think you're gonna see it with true fans too, where because Sam is going all in on activity pub, similar to the way that Fountain has done with noster. And I think what's going to happen is you're going to see you're going to see true fans links and true fans based postings. You're going to see them start to pop up all over the fetaverse. And when that happens. Yeah, it's the app itself is going to gain more action. Yes, I completely agree, touching a a specific audience. I

completely agree, you know, which?

No, I think not. I think you're right. I mean, I never really thought about it that way, but it makes sense. Yeah,

well, it was that article, you know. Let me see what else there was, because there were some other things that were said, like, okay, you know, the biggest challenge is marketing, particularly in the news sphere, says Ben Shapiro, so maybe, you know, there, maybe that's just a different view. Look at the top news apps. I mean, everyone has categories, but try not to do all categories. Try to focus on something

well. I mean, maybe we can help in this way, like, maybe we can publish more data that helps this even more. Like, like, you know, we have about 4600 podcasts being followed through the pod, through the podcast, a activity, pub bridge. Maybe I can publish the list of all those shows, and so that

and, and I don't want to put this under the general category of discoverability, because that's different. This is personality. This is personality of an app that draws people to this app. And other people recommend that. Oh, you know, it's like, I only like new shows. And so, you know, this app recommends that to me, and it does this, and it has these highlighted and whatever it is. And as I said, you know, like, I think your example of the of activity, pub

Well, it fit it, aside from the technology, I mean, the technology itself, argument that's different. But like from a perspective, from from fountains perspective, they are a they're heavily Bitcoin focused on that. They know that they have a strong Bitcoin focused audience. So why would they not do the nostr thing? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, that's where a lot of their audience is. So it makes sense.

That's what I'm saying that. And what they did is they took the risk of pissing off people, which they did. And I know that they did, and they know it at the for the upside of well, we're going to give this core audience who already understand Bitcoin and already understand value for value and boosting, because they are by far the biggest with the most transactions, not always the highest amount, but certainly

I and I think he knows that over time, he'll just smooth out those initial rough edges and make it where, I mean, like, I don't think anything's really on a longer time scale, gonna hurt? Well,

it's okay. The future of media is small focus on an audience that you can reach and completely satisfy you can't be I mean, why do people buy different radios? Why do people buy different television sets? You know, there's all kinds of, well, I'd like this because it has Netflix built into it. I like this because it does that. It this has 3d I can put my 3d goggles on. It switches automatically. You

Yeah, yeah, that's not your dog.

I can, I can hear your dog. Yeah, your dog is not

happy, yeah, no, I'm but I'm okay with that. I'm totally okay with, like, sponsored, you know, placement, because if somebody cares enough to spend some money to put that in, you know that to promote that into in an app that I that I respect, I'm okay with that. I'm fine with it. This is all right.

You know, when about the end of the world, there was such an opportunity. I know we talked about it when Joe Rogan came back on onto open RSS, podcasting, as far as I know, not a single podcast app went, Hey, we've got Joe Rogan back. Click here. Obvious one, you know, it's like, Hey, you can get Joe Rogan here. No, you don't need Spotify come to us.

I mean, such a good point. And

you can do that from a you know, for all of these things, there's so much you can there's so much that can be done with this content and and the podcasters would endear you. Oh, wait a minute, you're promoting my show. I mean, what? What is one of the top things? How do I game apple? How do I get, you know? How do I get to Yo, you got to have this many new subscribers and this many five star reviews make it to just something you do. Doesn't have to be a democracy.

I've seen this for a long I've said this for a long time that, you know, writing a podcast app is incredibly difficult. No kidding, when you the first, the first, the star, all these, uh, sort of, writing an RSS feed reader is considered sort of like a bootstrap starter app, and then you and then, and that's so not true, because to do it well, and to do a podcast

you have your basic interface design and all podcast apps are like email, here's your, here's your here's your list, and here's your inbox, and here's the new stuff, and you can organize it kind of like an email that's RSS readers the same way, but people choose different email clients for different reasons. Why is there so many people using proton mail? Because they provide reasonably simple to use encryption, and there's a feeling there of, okay, my email

even what you're saying is that, is that app developers should not be afraid of having an opinion

precisely. And it's, it's a it's a very, it's all. You know what it is, it's it's the same hurdle as asking for money in value for value. If it's a hurdle you got to get over. And most people don't really want to do it because it feels dirty. Doesn't feel right for some reason. But we're going to do it right now by asking people to support us with some money. Let's do it. So I hope, I hope that came across as what I

you get it working?

I guess so. Listen, stats and more to all activity pub clients. So there you go. Nice, Sam is Sam is finding his niche, niche. You want to say something? I

need to I need to I need to check and make sure that it's working. Because he was said he was having trouble the other day getting it to federate out. Uh, wonder if he's posted. I don't see him posting anything else about it. Here's the fir, oh, okay, wait, let's check this out. Is it working? Here's the first ever comment from true fans in the podcast, 2.0 show published by activity. Pub, Oh, yep, I see it. Nice, nice, excellent, very, nice,

excellent. So, yeah, that's that should definitely be on the list for your ever growing list is getting some of those activity. Pub, stats out. That's cool. I like that. I like that idea.

I'll do that. Yeah, I'll do that. I'm actually, actually was coding in the, in the I spent, actually spent quite a bit of time coding, uh, yesterday, last night in the podcast, podcast, index, activity, pub, bridge, trying to do some troubleshooting, putting in some some new stuff, trying to make that thing more stable. So I'm in that code base right now. Awesome. 3333

from Chad F he says, I like Russell's pod fund idea. I've been wanting something like this for a while. Well, your request has been granted. Dr Scott, 4567, don't you know? Video Killed the Radio Star, kidding. Lol. Side note, I'm currently publishing my wife's podcast in two separate feeds. One is for audio with an alternate enclosure for video and the other for video with altered enclosure for audio. Well, that's interesting. I guess that's necessary still to do it that way. You know,

you know, what I would love is, I would love if Apple podcasts app would support HLS through an alternate, alternate enclosure tag, and then they could and then they streamed the Apple Keynote, the Apple live events.

Yeah, their own podcast app, yes,

yes. They publish it. They published a video over HMS. They do.

They do and

and they have, they currently have no way to watch their own live events, own their own devices, without just going into Safari and web page. They should do it within their podcast app. And everybody has a feed, silent, feed of just the of the apple live event feed or something like that. Yeah, it pops up in the podcast app, and there you go.

So that's a helipad being triggered by Darren O'Neill with 33,333 sets that has, you know, you got to hit the big number for that. And Darren says it's all rock and roll to me. Thanks for all you do. 1111. From Randall black and John's Creek studios. Good job thinking about saving the bandwidth for listener slash user and server demand for the hosting providers go podcasting. 1234, from dreb Scott, he says,

says, If you reply to a true fans dot social posting. It doesn't go anywhere currently, but they're going to make that visible in true fans itself. If you somebody replies from the fever, just an, just an on a live update, okay?

Thank you, Sam.

We got, yeah, we got some, I guess, some PayPals. We got the blueberry team. $300

Whoa, hello, blueberry team. Shot Caller, 20 inch blades on the Impala. Thank you very much. There it is. Proof is in the pudding, keeping us alive.

Says, Go podcasting from the blueberry team, hold the line. Yes, we

will hold the line. Holding the line.

We got another, see, we got another. PayPal from Oscar Mary, $200 bam.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Check your CO two. CO two might be too high. I don't even start the show until CO two hits 1000 I'm telling you, when

I was telling divorce, get fun, I was telling Dvorak about that story about what's that guy, Bartlett, the die of a CEO, and that when the CO two monitor hits 1000 then he stops the interview. And your Dvorak's response was, dude, open a window. So good one, yeah, makes total sense.

Yeah, Occam's razor. Do the simple thing. We got some booster grams. We got, oh, wait, wait, wait, you know what? We had a last minute,

last minute donation,

a one off $10 from see Brooklyn. 112, go podcasting. All right, brother,

thank you very much.

I almost missed it. Man, that was a close one mere mortals. Chiron Sasha Richards, 111, through fountain. He says, Enjoy Mexico Adam, some of the most beautiful and diverse landscapes all jumbled into one country for the police,

though it is indeed, it is indeed, it is. It is beautiful here. Too bad about all the cars

that's I heard Karen's Police Story. If you've never heard it,

he has a Mexican police story.

Oh yeah, yes. It involved prison time. Yes. Uh, Chris. Oh. Chris lass from Jupiter, broadcasting, net worth 20,000 SAS through fountain. He says, killer value to the community this week and taking time to talk patiently with Robert Lipson, good work. Really been enjoying the board meetings recently. Happy belated birthday. Podfather.

Oh, thank you very much, brother. Appreciate it.

See we got gene bean, 2222 row of ducks there, cast O Matic, he says, for location. I hope it utilizes latitude and longitude so that it can be easily correlated to any mapping tool. Well,

it's an option, isn't it? Hasn't that always been an option? Long and last,

straight up. Yep, straight up. Sir Brown of London, 11. 948, through cast O Matic, he says, I have to boost. I have to boost at the mention of tiles. Dot pod, ping.org, it does link to episodes.fm. Already for most, and it will link for all when it is upgraded to handle encoded URLs instead of iTunes IDs. Yes, we are all

waiting, waiting with bated breath. We can't wait. We can't wait to use episodes.fm for everything, yeah, tiles, dot pod, ping.org, is pretty, pretty cool to look at.

Gene bean, 2222 coming in again. He says, preach it. Brother Dave, general comment, not about a specific thing, just in general. Just

in general. Good work. Yeah.

Preach in new in Newy in new AB in new way this e, n, e, u, b, y, in way, B, and we be, I don't know, 20,000 SATs through fountain. He says, Can you make a suggestion of a good podcast hosting company, homepod, Libsyn blueberry, who appears to be supporting the most 2.0 features, who has best value split set up in terms of ease, love the show. Keep blazing new trails. Well,

if you go to podcastapps.com, I believe you can set filters there, so you can say, I want to have hosting companies and what they support, and that's a good way to really see who provides what.

Yep, choose the filters of the tags you want supported and yeah. Have have have a shot. Yep. Let's see we got Mike Dell Oh, I know Mike. I've heard it 1701 Yeah, 1701 that's the star. Star Trek boost through fountain. He says, finally got my wallet refilled. Well, good for you, Mike.

What? What is this? How is 1701 A Star Trek boost. I'm not familiar with the numerology of Star Trek

because the the designation number of the enterprise is NCC, 1701

D, Oh, of course, of course, I should have not got it, got it. Got it. Got

it saturated. Blogger, the delimiter, 27,000 SATs. He says, Yeah, through Fountas, through fountain he says, howdy, biz bros, Dave and Adam. We're approaching an era of total unemployment for humans,

it sounds like another AI boost.

We're already two years into the Gen AI with LLM revolution, and in just two more years, the humanoid robot revolution will begin, soon to be followed by AGI. The only job that might remain for us humans will be content creation. With that in mind, I recommend checking out the mp three podcast in 4k YouTube videos of bandrew says podcast equals BSP, podcast, it covers topics relevant to content creators. Yo, CSB,

well, that means we're good to go, Dave. We have employment for the rest of our lives, for as long as we may be here. We got

some monthlies. We got Chad Farrow, $20.22 Thank you. Jeff. Kevin Bay, $5 uh, thank you. Kevin Cameron rose, $25 pod page is Brendan over there in the gang, so he's $25

we've been they've been advertising on pod news all week. Podpage, have you heard that scene? Yeah, that's good.

Mark Graham, $1 new media, $1 thank you guys. Randall black $5 just Morocco $5 and Emilio Keno, Molina, $4

well, thank you all very much for returning value, for the value that we provide with podcastindex.org the work that goes into that the board meeting, we are tickled pink, and would ask everybody to consider supporting us. You can go to podcastindex.org down at the bottom of that page, past all the funky stuff and the tiles and the carousel, there's

Yeah? Now, okay, yes, I got him confused with who's the guy that does all the AI stuff? That's the we figured out later. His music was, oh,

Richard grease. Richard grease, that's

it. Richard

grease is, let me see, where's his let me. See, I'll give you a little preview of some of his musical stylings, if you recall. This still cracks me up. This is his mosquito mystery track. Oh, that's

right, yeah, he's Dutch, right? No, he's

well, I think he lives in Holland, but I believe he's Danish. I think Danish. Okay, I think so. So make sure you listen for that. I'm definitely as as I'm wrapping up and getting ready for to head down to the pool. I'm definitely going to be listening to that. He's interesting fellow, interesting fellow. All right, brother, Dave, thank you so much. Another another week in the can. What are you doing this weekend?

We got my daughter has a she's got a concert tonight, and so we're gonna go watch her play. She's playing playing guitar in her band. Oh, nice. And, yeah, you

want to mention the venue where people can go and check her out

at the firehouse in downtown Birmingham. All right, excellent. Well, yeah, cool.

And is she streaming that live like she should be

negative. No streaming live,

no live stream.

All right, board day, one day we will get that word. Yeah, you

bet boardroom. Thank you very much for being here as always. We will return next week, on the Friday, bringing everything that's happening in podcasting, right here in The Weekly board meeting for podcasting, 2.0

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast index.org for more information. Go podcasting. Yeah, it is big. You.