Episode 185: Shock Collars

podcasting cuboid over July 1994 Episode 185 everybody we are back once again oh the saddle feels so good welcome to podcast. We are the official boardroom boy no family, everything is going on in podcasts and you want to know what the future is it starts right here we are the only

international blistering day.

Everybody blue screen

you never saw like as a as a corporation or organization or anything you never want to have like a date named after you like seven nights?

Yeah. Yeah, no, you don't like Jan

six? You just don't ever want well, do

you want me just call it J 19. Make it easy. That's it's easy to remember J 19. Day everybody. And the thing that bothers me and I do want because you are a systems administrator, amongst many other important jobs. The thing that bothers me so much is when I see reporting that says, You know what, what am I going to say?

Glitch?

Blame it on the glitch? Just working 10 minutes, it wasn't that hard to blame it

on the glitch. Yeah, well, reporters don't care. This kind of day. Here's a song I

was going to keep going with intro

to the song idea. Find this song. It's Michael Jackson, blame it on the boogie to blame it on the glitch. You can think that I think it can be done

it could be blamed on the button.

Now that sounds too similar. I can hear three rights alerts to get the rhymes right. I

can hear Chris popping the beer as we speak. Don't

blame it on the bass. Don't blame it on the blame around the glitch.

You call this a glitch. All right, I got my system

glitch glitch listings, where you're where your screen blinks and you're like, Wait,

what is going on? I know that is that

is a glitch, a a global a global event that brings down a banking system. And airlines. That

is not a good it's not a glitch. No. And you know, so I woke up this morning. I think well, I saw your message first. But then I looked at my daughter who works in healthcare in the Netherlands at Holland man Schiphol Airport KLM they are they part of Microsoft? I mean, are they an annex of Microsoft? Everything was she could make phone calls, you know, everything was completely hosed. And then of course, I see all the messages. And and at that point, I didn't know what

it was so like ag I started reading No, I was I was rotten, the toilet scroller this morning as one does about 615. And I start seeing these reports. And I'm like, Ha, what is this? I start looking at my oh, gosh, that sounds bad. And then there's like, it's related to crowd a bad CrowdStrike update. And I was like, Oh, crap. Yeah. So I flip over to my email and start trying to interpret, start trying to interpret what I'm seeing in corporate email to what is know

piece of crap. Sorry, that just slipped out. I didn't mean that.

Grandpa CrowdStrike is an in endpoint security platform. So you it's, it's what you used to call antivirus. But it's evolved anti viruses evolved in the corporate world to be way more comprehensive than this. So it's doing it's doing so many things that Steve is doing heuristics. It's doing traditional signature scans. It's looking for behaviors that

strike will go stop, stop, stop. That's not cool.

Yeah, right. So that is highly suspicious behavior. So it looks it has all these heuristics in in it, that, that looks for these sorts of things. And one of the so it is constantly getting just like antivirus is constantly getting fed these new signatures, signature files, to update its

So it has that permission as well to just uninstall stuff. Get

delete files quarantine entire machines. Oh, it's

Wow, that's,

that's very powerful.

Very powerful. Yeah.

So what like one thing you can do? There's, there's settings within a lot. So the two primary competitors are CrowdStrike and carbon black, right? Like, at the top level, when we're talking about, you know, enterprise, high value targets. Yeah, you're usually either gonna find CrowdStrike or carbon black CrowdStrike is by far the most dominant now, it used to be the other way around. So those are those are your two

it has to actually have been booted up. Yes. In order for that to take place.

Yes. Yeah. So that so what happened? Was they pushed out? Yeah, in this update. So CrowdStrike, that CrowdStrike? Agent?

Can I ask? Can I ask you a question? Because this is highly fascinating to me. First of all, don't blame DNS, everybody. For this one time. It wasn't DNS, sec. Is it typical for any company? And maybe specifically CrowdStrike to push an update on a Friday morning?

These guys push updates 12. Okay. But look, if they if they noticed something, they're constantly pushing updates, I mean, sometimes hourly, okay. So I don't know exactly what kind of update this was. I don't know if this was a like a virus signature update. I'm not sure yet. But what the CrowdStrike agent is, and this applies to, you know, carbon black and others as well, it is a kernel driver as a kernel driver. It's just like a video card driver or anything else

so this is why you can boot up in safe mode because it bypasses all those kinds of add ons. Right.

And it's I think, if I'm not mistaken, the part of it they dot that didn't cause the problem was the part of it. That's the, what they call a network filter driver. And that, because if you if you boot up in safe mode at work, if you boot up in Safe Mode with networking, it doesn't it will still cry,

I've lived in BitLocker encrypted for a couple of like a two weeks so I'm switching just hearing about it. Because

what happened If the if the C drive is BitLocker encrypted is that which most, if you're doing your job writing corporate it is, is you you boot up, go into the recovery part into the recovery tools, go to the command line. And as soon as it tries to drop into a command line to unlock the C drive, it's going to come up and ask for a recovery key, which you have to go get from Microsoft, which you have to either know, well, in a corporate invite, you're gonna have to get it out of Active

type it in a million times. You never stop typing. I know, like, 40883 I know some of those by heart now. Yeah,

it's it's eight groups of six numbers. Yes, it's 48 numbers. So you type all this stuff on a stuff out, and then you drop into command line, then you have to go and delete the file and reboot. You're gonna have to do this, like here. I heard this morning UAB, the University of

Birmingham, oh, they must have had hundreds of machines.

I mean, no, 10s of 1000s of machines is across their entire network across the entire college is down. Oh, no. They had they're the biggest employer in the state. They have, like 100,000 employees.

And so every single one of those individual machines that accesses through the domain controller got this update, is that how it works? Every

every agent of CrowdStrike is an independent entity. So all communicate,

here's so I so I posted some stuff. And the first thing I posted was be kind to your IT administrator today. How were the people in your organization? Kind? Go? Yeah, they

were okay. Very cool. Oh, yeah. They're great. Yeah,

it was what like, you walk around with like, you know, like holsters and any Bandito crossbelt of ammo and stuff. So people have been trained to be nice to you.

Leave me alone. When it get if they if they see me walking around with a cup of coffee, they know it's bad. Because that's like, you know, I need emotional support coffee.

That Has this ever happened with CrowdStrike?

No, not that I've not aware of any of this ever happening before. It happens. It happens with other vendors. Like Like I mentioned, Lee like 10 or 12 years ago. Yeah, Trend Micro uninstalled all of our remote assistance software,

you but it's still updated, still booted up, right?

It booted up. But there's been other ones like Kaspersky had a problem a long time ago, where they blue screened a bunch of computer Russians, it know it, it's unknown, whenever, whenever you have kernel level, whenever you have kernel level access, if you do something. So if you if you're a driver, and you do something that causes a page fault, that machine is going to crash, I

just thought of a song they call me CrowdStrike driver. Road and I'm gone. What's my controller? I wonder where your domain controllers go doo doo doo doo doo. Yeah, I'm

working. That's the other thing is that, you know, by design, things like CrowdStrike, carbon black, these these endpoint security tools. They're made to look for suspicious behavior on machines, right? So where where you want these things to live? is in your most critical servers first?

It's bad. So my, my general feeling about this, because this the timing of this is interesting. We had the, the end of the I don't like Christ. CrowdStrike is a company that had been involved in all kinds of political, even one of the founders, you know, think tanks and political based activity, I could go way into it way deep back to the DNC server hack. And there's a lot of stuff that they've been involved in that that I just don't like. Yeah. And of course, that's my other

Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't know that.

Now. They're not these machines are supposedly not supposed to be connected to anything. But it just seems like wow, what a what a fun trial run this was

this right? If it's if it's running the CrowdStrike agent, it would have to be connected to something. Well, I mean, make any sense? Oh,

I mean, please do let's let's not kill each other, let's not kill each other about the connectedness of these voting machines. Right? So I'm, I don't know, that concerns me a little bit, but at least we could get back from this. Okay. And although there will be a lot of lawsuits, and there's going to be all kinds of nonsense for CrowdStrike is not not a good day for those guys.

Well, there there should, there should be a way to win. That's always been a point of contention with within user license agreements. You can't just it's you can't just put anything into a lender user license agreement and have it be legally enforceable. Right. So I mean, like, if I'm driving down the street, in a brand new Ford F 150. And the and the brakes, you know, fall off and I, you know, run off the road and get into a horrible accident. Ford can't just say, Don't look at

Well, like just the fact you're on the road, didn't you see the EULA at the beginning of the road, and you click the box automatically as you drove by.

But somehow the software companies think they can just put, they can put into their EULA? Hey, if anything happens to you, because of our software, we're not responding on our problem. That is, just because you write it into an end user license agreement doesn't mean that that that's true. I mean, it has still has to be legal. Yeah. You know, and I think, no, I think all the software companies they claim

now did you have to speak to your CrowdStrike representative, your team member

now, we're small potatoes to them, they, they're too busy. Now, I did talk to a vendor this morning. That we that we use to for like procurement and that kind of thing. Yeah. And he said, this, this is a big outfit with you know, I don't know, this guy to have 40,000 employees about 50% or work from home. And he said every single one of them is affected

by my workstation. So they can't even log

how do you how do you send your IT people out to somebody's house? I mean, it this is a disaster. Now do you have to complete this in

general so this is you know, obviously a very centralized issue. You know, it shows you how vulnerable everything really is. Are you going to make any other decisions in your infrastructure there based upon what happened here? Days like I've been here 20 years screw it, they can pounce and whatever.

Honestly, no, I think those I think make like changing things. A lot of times after events like this, Charlie buys he's just much yeah, this is just my general take on things usually is that that's never it's always it's kind of awake and less. So so if you're if you're a company that uses CrowdStrike and and you find out that what caused this was a deliberate

we'll find that agents Yeah. Yeah,

if it was negligence, like pure negligence, like, and that's the question I have is. So if you're CrowdStrike? Don't you have testings machine? Yeah, that's you have 1000 virtual machines that spin up and test every day before it goes out. Do you think this possibly happen? Yeah. I

So of course, the Linux boys are all smiling. Huh?

The other all smug.

Mac boys. Think different.

Yeah, it's amazing. Like, it's amazing that that, that Linux has not had more instances like this. We've come close with like Heartbleed and ShellShock. And some of these some of these issues, but with in with the one was it like a month or two ago? Where they almost got that xe library? Where they would backdoor everybody's Yeah,

yeah,

that's that was

the estimate that was that the SSH thing? This

was? Yeah, this was going to put a backdoor in everybody's SSH server. Right. Yeah. So it's amazing to me that, that Linux has not had more issues that this hasn't happened. Yeah. Yeah. You

know, my buddy, the oil baron he had he had to have people up in the middle of the night because all of his SCADA controllers are on Windows. And that controls you know, like oil flow, minor things, minor things.

I mean, imagine if you're in an organization that has that has 25 or 30,000 workstations. Yeah, spread out across the big geographic canvas or region. You're gonna have to deputize you know, temporary IT people and teach them how to cool

does that come with a badge?

It will store

deputy IT manager here. I'm here to help ma'am. Now the CEO call you the CEO. Yeah, no. Oh, really? He doesn't call I'm just checking with you.

Oh, you mean a vargr? Yeah, we talked Yeah, we talked. Yeah.

How does that conversation go?

No, that's fine. It's fine. I mean, because, you know, we like a thing that I've always had. And this has been everywhere. I've worked a thing that sort of a principle I've always had is every bit every employee turn their computer off at night. Right. That's always been my because for a lot of different reasons. Number one is If you have power glitches or like glitch outs, you know, you have power surges or brownouts

so you just had to tell people don't boot up this morning. Was that basically that don't start your computer?

No, no, if you had your computer off last night, you were fine. You never you could boot right out and go to work. You never had an issue. Because Because when CrowdStrike pushed that update out, started seeing

the hat and then returning to retract that, yeah, roll it back.

Got it gotta go. If you turn your computer off at five o'clock in the afternoon and left the office yesterday, thing came in at eight o'clock this morning and booted it up. You hadn't you never had any?

Because I'm a guy who always leaves his computer on always, bright day night. And so you know, should I also adhere to the sage advice?

Well, that that advice is applies to people who have no who have no services running on their machine that they need to access, which is 99% of all corporate rise, right? The 1% of people like in in in system admin, or things like that, or home computers that this applies to it, you know that that doesn't apply. But you know, there's I leave a leave of generally about four different machines. I've bounced between at least two of them own because they have things I need.

that's always my fear. Yeah,

yeah, that's not that's a real thing that has happened. So just in general, in a corporate environment. I have seen so many issues of so many catastrophes averted by enforcing a corporate policy of powering off your machines. Yeah, well, did anyone did anyone give you any button anytime?

Did anyone give you any gifts or come in and say Hey, thanks, Dave.

No, I got a bunch of rough morning, huh?

And that's almost like, hey, jiggle the handle full. rough morning helps.

You also in you know where, when? Anytime. Something like this happens. You always get a few, like the stragglers that get in at like a you know, 10am Hey, what's going on, man? Yeah, they're like, hey, some seeds be wrong with my computer. Oh, yeah. Really? Hello,

Captain Obvious. Welcome to the party. Yeah, well, I'm glad glad it wasn't too bad. Because I was like, oh, man, if this is really bad day, it's gonna be working all weekend.

It's Friday. Yeah, they have a feel for my brothers and sisters and that T out there that are going to be working for days. Yeah, fix this. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, think about the and think about you like, like here at UAB Hospital in Birmingham. Think about the the MRI machines. Yeah. Oh, man. It's a nightmare. There's gonna be so much fallout. Yeah,

well change the news cycle. Good job, everybody. That's all we really needed. Just change the new cycle. That's how we roll corporate America stretch. Yes. Right of the week. That's right. And of course this coming to you from the company who we know very well here podcasting. 2.0 This is their, this their corporate sound. That was there. That was their cue map their pew pew map. That's

right. That was for a blue.

That was that was CrowdStrike.

Yeah, but what what would they were tracking something? No,

it was it was just like, look at the threat map. You know, this is every single thing you see is is an attack. Remember that stupid map.

But But yeah, but that map they made that map in to give real time tracking of some

of bullcrap

was going across the globe.

Let me see if I can find it. Let me see. It was like

it was like bullet bock. What was the name of that thing that hit Europe so hard a few years ago. Here's

a live cyber threat map I think they took out a pew pew though it took out the pew pew

it was it was poor man's worm. It was that worm that was going through those hidden Europe like crazy. Awesome, eternal blue. No, that's not right.

The threat map is pretty introverted. Too bad that took out the pews I got to provide my own here. There we go. I feel better no no looking.

They still have it they still run it.

Yeah threat map is it checkpoint? Was that checkpoint? Who had that? His checkpoint from CrowdStrike I can't remember now.

Anyway, I'm trying to it's killing me that I can't remember the name of that thing. Because there was like a whole bunch of okay, so you remember this it when it was like this worm named

Noah storm warm storm worm. I'm just reading from from the boardroom.

It was this worm that started going across primarily Europe. And then you somebody read this dude registered a domain that he found in this in the disassembled code of the worm. And registering that domain stopped its propagation. Like that's, that's how it knew to That's it was checking for that domain

and it was non existent. I can kind of recall this.

And then the guy who registered it ended up getting on like the morto

worm watch list. The morto worm, the flaccid worm funny now flat.

It shouldn't be ended up on the NSA watch

list. Oh, of course. Of course. Of course. Makes nothing but sense. Yeah, I can't. Anyway. Welcome back, everybody. Good to be back in the boardroom. We do have a number of pressing issues to take care of today. You want to start with wallets?

See if I can. I can pull myself away from wanna cry. That's it.

No wanna cry? Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah, it was. Yeah, the kill switch. Was a domain registration. Yeah, want to want to cry. That's, that was the first time I saw the PPU map was wondering. Cuz somebody built a tracker anyway. Yeah. So what are we doing?

What are we doing? Well, we've had a little, little issue with wallets recently. And we've, since the last boarding board meeting, you and I, and I guess everybody has kind of been banging their head, what are we going to do? The main issue being that custodial wallets with keys and our custodial wallets in general, are clearly going to be a problem for a

Yeah, I think so. And that's pretty much it. Yeah. And

so strike has an O off the implementation. And of course, they have liquidity and back end and everything, which would make it very easy for podcasters for, for listeners to just sign up to strike, it has some benefits, which I hadn't really ever played around with strike, but you can literally connect it to a bank card or to your bank account, and you just see fiat money in there. And you can say, this was the test that I did. I want to send $1 to Adam over at this node. And it just

Please don't say they need back channel.

Oh, no, that's not good either. And back channels. Now he, he probably contacted you initially for the same thing. He contacted me which was for, for his his chat integration with noster. Which I which I mean, he went through all this and said, you know, Oscar, this is really interesting. We have a bigger problem. And it's your problem, too. We have to figure out what to do with wallets and payments, because you can't be the only the only guy in town. It won't

Oh, yeah, me too. So let me, let me take everything that the, the Yeah, just

translate that into something.

So. So currently historically, when we first crank this thing out, we had this, you know, to the concept of two different ways to get paid. And it was streaming payments per minute. And boosts they're both essentially the same thing. Under the covers, they both are a lightning

what podcast what, what episode, timestamp

in the episode, all these things. So that's essentially what's happened, whether it's a per streaming payment or a boost, the payment, the payload, and they form the payment takes is exactly the same. They're both key send payments, but the reason we chose key send is because by default, lightning required what's called a bolt 11 invoice,

so glad you're simplifying this.

The Onion, the onion is like a series of of

all of a sudden, we're cooking with onions, what's happened to the story? I'm crying.

So if you have three, if you have three hops in the route from you to this other to the destination, from you to the to the payee, then you're going to have three layers in this in this encrypted onion that didn't get successively unwrapped until the payee itself can validate that preimage matches. And that's how this thing works, right. So you can see that they needed to be able, they needed to generate the invoice at the payee rather than the payer, so that they could do

it's very unintuitive in today's digital payment world.

It is if I have a PayPal address, you can just send me money if you know my email address. That's it, you don't have to ask my permission. So So key so we chose key sin because it avoided that process keys and uses the node the nodes public key as as the the preimage. I believe that's the way that works. And maybe I may be wrong, but I believe that's that's the way it works. So you have set the payment can just as long as you know this other person's lightning node public

when we need to go just talk to the dog? We can wait, I know how distracting that is.

Here's a bad joke. Shut up.

Go. The dog understands English. Yeah, yeah. I can stop.

Now it's fine. I'm just like, a mute myself and hollering at him is proving to be highly, very effective.

Yes,

yeah. Let's see. So. So that's where it so that's where we're at. So what we what we were talking about was, in order to stay to like fit better with, with the current lightning ecosystem, meaning custodial world, we need to read we need to emphasize Bolt 11 We need to sort of move away from a Kison centric right world and go and start going towards the bolt 11. Now that's. So here, here, let me lay another thing on top of this. Bolt 11 is supported primarily, now through what's

the proof for the for the for the payment invoice basically for

an invoice yet for an invoice, and then it'll give you one back dynamically, and then you can pay it. It tries to get around this idea of having to have the payee participate in the transaction, right? It's just automating it all. Yes. Automating the generation of the receivers, invoice, create

user, create an invoice for X amount of sites, and then send me the details. Right.

So Ellen URL is, is the sort of standardized way to do this thing. We, in talking to Oscar, what we have figured out is that we need a CIO and let me finish by saying Ellen URL is Bolt 11 centric. That's all it concerns itself with we need a way to support multiple payment types. So keys and bolt 11 and eventually Bolt 12 I know you're

with us stay with us. Drink Drink, everybody.

Don't CrowdStrike me bro. So we need a way to support both keys and both 11 and bold 12. Because key sins exists already in that should be a thing anything this should be backwards compatible. But we want to not also just flip from one thing to another and lock herself into Bolt 11 Because Bolt 12 is also coming in potentially other things. Cash you maybe down the line who fatty mints, oh, all these

option if at any point you feel dizzy on the podcasting, 2.0, right, just look at the floor and it will all go away.

Okay, so Eric peepee asked a question. He says does node does the type of node does the type equals node mean key sand? Originally, it did not mean that in and of itself, but now it will fall. So if you look at the if you look at the structure of a value blog, you can go and check one out on the podcast namespace documentation. In the there's a value if you go into the if you go into the namespace repo and go to the value folder, there's a document called Value dot end that's got

Let me just check. I don't think I don't think I have done in ours.

You got nothing in your code. Okay,

I'm gonna check. No, if you type type equals node is all I have.

Yeah, so if you in your podcast colon, if you public in your podcast colon value, blog, if you have method equals key sin is not going to hurt anything.

But if I don't know I do have method equals key send. Okay,

that's fine if you put that in there as a producer of a feed, but if you're consuming feeds I don't think anybody ever paid attention to that attribute because there was only one value it ever was always Easton I

feel like I did unnecessary work now.

You wasted that wasted bandwidth. You wait you wasted like 10 bytes of bandwidth

Yeah, type equals lightning method equals key send.

Yeah, so there was always only just one method that's all it ever was right? Key sin so I seriously doubt anybody has code that's going to break if value blocks start coming into existence that don't have the method attribute right. So that method attribute is going away because the method

So all I'll really have to add to my setup as a as a sovereign. Is this Ellen? Ellen address? The end And I could I guess I could set it [email protected] and slash. So the so the HTTP requests will come in as Get me the page out of mccurry.com.

Yeah. So,

I mean, it's confusing for people who are used to this as email only, you know, job. This is just a mind bender. That's all this.

This makes more sense. This makes more sense as you think about the other part of this, which is if I felt like a monologue in here, but it's kind of like almost necessary. The other the other side of, well, let me let me finish this up. Let's

call this a little Liqui.

This soliloquy, soliloquy. Let me see if I'm finished. Yeah, let me finish this take up. Okay. So the, so that's what the new thing is going to be it's going to be you're going to have a type of a type of node or you're going to have a type of Ellen address, Ellen address will resolve to the options file, which will then make available the the different options for receiving a payment,

which which could be two or three. Yeah, okay. It

could be multiple. Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. So

I can still keep my keys and for clients that are sending keys and payments to me and I can add my bolt 11 four bolt 11 apps.

Right, I'm going to feature bold 12 So the other part of this is the actual Nashville custodian API service that apps would use and here is where like it okay so you've always had to wallets to deal with the vault you're in this is this is kind of this is going to simplify that Oh, yeah. It's going to remove one Yeah, so what you've always had to do is I've had an you know, like okay, let's say I get a great I grabbed cast ematic download cast ematic cast, thematic says,

Unless you're true fans, because true fans is the best. It gives you 5000 SATs right off the bat.

Right? Yes. I stand corrected. And anybody that other than true fans. You will have no SATs. So now you gotta go get some SAT. So what do you gotta do? You gotta go get a cash app account. You gotta go get a strike account. Moon pay, you know, in it, some of the one of these other turns to

the right, turn to the left cough. Okay, yeah. And

you gotta go get some set somewhere through an exchange. And then you can send those sets over to your new shiny Alby wallet, this connected cast thematic. So you've got it, you've always had to have two wallets. Now, what what striker has done is they've got a very good OAuth API. So what can happen now is that you apps can integrate directly with

think. No, I know that podcast guru already does that they already batch every five minutes.

And so does fountain. Yeah. has always done that. Okay. Yeah, makes sense. So I think I mean, I think it doesn't sound like too big of a lift to me. You're gonna you know, you just, it's it's an emphasis on both 11 over key send. And then the lightning address just means you're, you're great. You're going to be doing here we get an Ellen URL addresses, excuse me, Ellen URL invoice. Okay,

a couple of questions. Good job, the T O V record data. So all of the payment information, is that able to be sent along with these bolts 11 invoice payments?

That is an unknown? I do not know. And I'll just be honest with you, I have no idea yet. Okay. And if I hope, I hope we can figure out, I hope we can figure out a proper way to do out of band confirmations. Because when

I when I sent my test I sent from strike I sent $1 to my breeze wallet knowing that both they both do this stuff. And I just send it to whatever Adam See 1999 breeze.io This is one of those. And I put a note in there and the note was received on the other side. So they're doing something they both know that hey, here's a note so that there's a note adding capability that is known.

And we might just need to we might we might be able to like ENCODE encode the JSON into the note field somehow? I'm not not sure. Okay. I just don't know yet. We need I'm looking forward to Oscar's demo app, where we can all see how this is going to work in a clearer way. So that if we just, you know, then we can figure out okay, do we just need to put a JSON some JSON data in the memo field, which is kind of ugly, but I just don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's not. It would

Open up here I come. Exactly,

exactly. By casting 2.5 Yeah, this is what it feels like. Yeah. But I mean, what I'm really grateful that Oscar is willing to put into a demo app because I think that's really what people need to see. Because this is what way I described it on on the on the mastodon was, this is a subtle and not subtle change at the same time. Because it it's not that different than what we're already doing.

640 bytes is what I'm seeing 640 characters max for the Yes.

It's a little bit small. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. We're just gonna have to figure that part out.

Okay. So, well, this is good and the part that I really like about it, but we do have to admit, I think we've got all the people who understand Bitcoin, I think they're all pretty much in in the pocket. Now we need to start onboarding quote unquote, normies. I don't like that term. But what I like a lot about the strike experience is I didn't even put a card in I just had a strike account. And I just Send some sets to it. And it told me how much was in there in dollars.

Yeah, I think that's what that's, it's, we need to keep that in mind. What what's the goal here? The goal is that you that you save somebody says, How do I get? We can

also just not have to take people you don't have to orange pill someone? Yes, on both ends on both ends. Because for musicians, I really look at the musicians as with all respect, you know, dead like hmm, most of them are just, you know, they just want to put their music up somewhere and like, how do I get the money and said, Okay, here's my strike, here's my strike wallet, okay, I see money coming in, I got

I think so too. Yeah, yeah, that's it if you have yet I did would be to because because if you been supporting, supporting these custodial wallets in no way means you can be sovereign. You can still I mean, you can completely you can be sovereign. You want to have options you want to people a, do you want to run your own node? Be a go for it. Yes. That we that, that that's fully supported? Do you want to just have a strike account and have that or a cash

Exactly, yeah, just I mean, yes, we used to say jeans mom, but she passed away. So it's not appropriate anymore. To say jeans mom can understand it. But that is the idea. Yeah. Stacy, Stacy, Stacy's mom, Stacy's mom, Stacy's mom. So I'm very excited about this. I do want to add a couple things to this to remind everybody to look at value for value dot info, value number four value dot info, because there is creeping

Yeah, just need to put that out there in the streaming payment the like, per minute payments. And that'll say this, I think it's a good idea. So I guess it wouldn't, it wouldn't hurt, it wouldn't hurt me too bad if, if the streaming payments just didn't even exist, I'm in

agreement with you. Now, I'd like it personally, because I know that so for instance, I do, you know, 200 SATs for any, for any podcasts that I really enjoy, and listen to regularly, up to 200 sets per minute streaming. So I know at the end of that show, I've given them some real value. And along the way, if I, if there's something I like, or I want to provide some feedback, I'll boost with typically 10,000 sets

Eric, Eric said in the boardroom, he said, I think I think streaming stats are extremely important that I do to Eric, let me let me just be a little more clear. I realized that wasn't that wasn't clear enough. What a mean, is that I wouldn't, is that the concept of sending a payment every single minute. That's what I'm not as tied to is I used to like, going

out with my homie five, five minutes or whatever is what you're saying? Yeah,

I just want to know, like, my app could just periodically as I'm listening, even after I'm listening, after I'm finished, he could just say, Hey, you listened to Lou, he could do this, like three times a day, he could say, you listen to 20 minutes of that show here. I'm just gonna go and send those payments on your behalf. It's just the concept of the the like, per minute streaming. I don't know if that is what I'm at the point now, where if that's what's holding us up? It

and this, along the same lines, what I thought I think what true fans has done is interesting, where I can set my, my true fans app and I can say, whenever a new episode drops from these guys, I want to send them a payment even if I'm not listening. That's a perfectly valid value for value. Exchange.

I think I think we don't necessarily, we don't we don't think about the listener side of the V for V mindset as much as we do the podcaster side, correct. So the the pipe, the podcaster side has flipped been fleshed out so well by you over the years to say okay, here's here's the podcasters investment into V for V. Here's what that looks like. There is a mental thing that happens and the reason I'm bringing this up is because I saw the chat. So when he said was streaming I

along those lines, I mean, apps could do a lot with reminding people or saying hey, you know, you've listened to the show a couple of times you think about supporting it, or, you know, there's all kinds of things just from the listener perspective. Absolutely. But again, again, podcasters have to teach their audiences. I mean, I have taught audiences to do the craziest things. And they'll do it. And what I mean, is like, it's my audience, it's my producers, it's my people. I

Yeah, yeah. That mean, because so if you take,

like, what I mean, what I'm saying, but this comes back to I was saying earlier, it's not, we're not moving into a world where everyone pays for the content with micro payments, it's just not going to happen. For us, that's not how the world operates, people are not going to get that mindset, they're going to be reminded by the content producers, that they need to support them. And here's an easy way.

If and also, we I think we need to just focus on if we can, you know, the free is not that much is, it's really not different than what we already do. Like this. It's not like you have ed the entire world out here operating one way, and then you have V for v this operating some other some different way, correct. Like when you go to a restaurant, if you if nobody ever tipped at a restaurant, if nobody ever gave a tip, and everybody just paid what was on the on the on the

of which, it's been 45 minutes since anyone boosted anything. Just

Yeah. Your Europe they don't tip. Well. In the US though. If you don't if you don't tip you don't have any employees

that well. We don't say I don't like the tipping example. I just don't like it. Because it puts it into a tipping thing. Like you're already working for me. Somehow you getting paid. And here's something extra, no, it's the it's the pain. It's a value exchange. I'm just a heartless about that.

It is a value exchange. But the if you I'm taking the restaurant out of the equation, and say and you know the tip. If, if, if if there are no tips at the restaurant, there's not going to be anybody working there. Yeah,

I just devalues it. I don't work for tips. I work for value. Thank you. So

there's restaurants where the dish restaurants were the people were the people working for tips make six figures. I know.

But it's it's different. It's just the minute you'd call it tipping. People consider it tipping. It's a small amount. And I've had $10,000 tips on no agenda, if you want to call it that is that a tip? Was that someone who really valued something over over two years time and said, I need to give you some value back?

I guess I was thinking about like, Sam had said once before that, you know, the VA is fine, but we you know, if you're running a service, you have fixed costs and that kind of thing. And what I'm saying is it's not different. What

I'm what I'm saying is what I'm saying is I've experimented with this for 17 in yours, I know what works. Calling it tipping does not work as well as value as a value for value pitch. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah, I'm not arguing against that. I was talking about something different, like just the concept of trying to make the concept that trying to find an analogy, because because V four v is not different than then the rest of the economy, it's a different, it's, nobody's the same, the economics are the same, you're just doing it in a different way.

Well, here's, here's the difference when it comes to what we're doing. For the first time in a podcast app development history, the app developers are able to participate in the value flow, that's what's significantly different. It used to be you got a free app, and you're using it for you know, you're creating this app, because you like building apps, you could do remove the ads, and pay for it or support the app. And now you can be a part of the actual

Well, yep, busting my bag. That's a decent term. Gluskin

busking is yes, I agree, busing is fair.

It's our archaic term that nobody knows what it means anymore. Now,

but like, I mean, I've always supported musicians, I don't care how good or how bad. I mean, just because I come from a musical background. And I'm in the airport, you got some guy in the corner, I'm always gonna drop 20 bucks, always. That's just that, just always do that. It's not a tip. It's like, Thank you for the value you provide. Even if you suck, you came out here. You're playing. This is your thing. Someone loves us. Let's see how much chat F 7777 Mini stripe chatter chatter. So

I'm the same way if you're, if you're, if you're a, if you're a guy, or a girl playing guitar and singing at a little restaurant, even if you suck, I'm dropping, I'm dropping at least 10 bucks in your drawer.

Right. But let me let me just drop you some money and just put it this way. If we said, hey, podcasts index is here for tips. The machines would not be running at this moment.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. Yeah. But yes, I think I get your I get it, I get it. And the fact the fact that the podcast index servers do run when our expenses are almost $1,000 A month means that even if you run a platform or service value for value still works. Yeah. This like, you know, that's the thing, just because just because you have fixed costs doesn't mean that value value is not exactly, exactly.

Now, if you want to get if you want to get VC money and show a return on investment, I think it's going to be difficult.

Yeah, probably,

probably, you know, movies of its, you know, some people call it crowdfunding, you know, it's ongoing crowdfunding, you can call it that, or you can call it that to

the people, your business makes money, when the people that care that want your product, or want when the when the when your customer wants a product. And they see that they need to return value in order for them to get it. Yeah, that's universal. Yeah, it doesn't matter. That is just flat economics. And everybody understands that. You don't get something for free. But you know, value for value is not

me to add a few elements here. It is a programming format that does need certain elements. It needs an Ask and it needs the feedback loop. That's why booster grants became super important because somewhere you need to thank at least some some portion of the people who are sending you value back that feedback loop and is the thank you segment. That mean go look at At GoFundMe, you go to go fund, you're like, Oh, hey, I've got this thing going on, I need some, I need some

Yeah, yeah, it's not it's not a it's not a technology that you plug in. Exactly.

Should we take a little breather with some new music?

Oh yeah. I gotta go the bathroom so it's perfect time

so I'm I'm looking through the split kit and and I'm looking at all the new music that's coming out and lo and behold a brand new dorsals track everybody couldn't get any better on this Friday here's possible on 2.0 She's

back she I can see she said you're okay well you and you always knows just want to say she's the straight line and you just proved it she's She she's dead so I can fly the sky. She's as she always knows just one. When I was on my back out everyone have fans

love me some doorbells in the afternoon everybody.

That's a good that's a good team guys. So good. So good. Last thing they do is good. So

on that note, we have the big Bitcoin Conference. Oops, coming up on his next week I guess I will be there in Nashville. Yes. So this is what I wanted to discuss. Now the the days were already complicated for me because it's Thursday, Friday, Saturday. My, my stepdaughter is has been with us for two weeks waiting for an operation date for her torn meniscus and ACL, which is happening on the 23rd. And I kind of have to be here to help out. So I do have a great

No, so here's my schedule is I'm going to I'm going to head to Nashville. Right after work on Thursday. So that's the 25th. So I'm going to head I'm going to leave right at five o'clock. from Birmingham. It takes about two hours to get to Nashville from here. And so I'm staying, Karen, Karen down from mere mortals. He's coming. He's flying in from Brazil to

you want to do the board meeting Friday as regular? Yeah. Okay. And you'll just bring your gear and just plug it in? Yeah,

I'm bringing my gear plant board meeting as usual. I'll just do it from the Airbnb. Excellent.

And because I mean, that's pretty boring. I mean, I don't think we should be streaming that it's like, who wants to see these dudes. But, so I guess I'm looking for some help here.

So what what time, we'll see, I will do the board doomed. I'm not I'm not going to the conference. By the way. I don't have tickets. I don't care anything about going to the conferences. So I'm just basically there to meet up with people and hang out and just have fun. I'm glad you can make it. So the 28th So you got this thing you're doing with the live booster Grand Ball? Is that gonna be the 25th or the sixth?

It has to be on the 26th it could be on that side. It can do the Saturday too. So I'm looking forward looking to the Costello's to tell me what they need. And then of course my my number one question is and this is where blueberry or Spencer anybody can help me out what I mean I have stream yard. I just need to know where to point it. I mean, obviously I can output to YouTube. That's how I tested it that works fine.

Okay. Yeah, so if you're gonna do that oh, so there's the seed bands that Bitcoin is the 25th is every day right? 26 and 27? I think so. Yeah. Okay, so I hope you do if you don't on the 27th I'm not. If it's at night, I'm not going to be in I'll already be gone from Nashville.

What's the 27th is that Saturday? That's Saturday. No, I'd hope I can do it during the day, I mean, I don't know, but I'll leave it open to them. Because obviously, they they're gonna I know they're gonna have screens so it'll be on the screen and the whole point of me is promoting it promoting what's going on. I mean, I've done these and, and I've done stuff where there's a live audience and I'm just hitting a booth so I know how to how to interact and how to make that happen.

Looks like it looks like you're getting some advice

And maybe, well, you can probably use podcasts index out social to coordinate stuff because everyone seems to have an account there. So we can just, you know, say hey, I'm over here. I'm doing this right now.

Eric said the vinyl lounge thing is the 25th I guess I'll go to that the first 25th and go to the bands of Bitcoin on the 26th Okay, cool.

Let's see. I don't I mean, do you have anything on your on your list for today?

I mean, I've got a I've got a big list. He's

got a big list and he's mad you know, I really missed our Fridays. You know, I know you had a good time. Can you integrate with your family?

Yeah. That's awesome. That that so so we got to Yosemite so we do getting out there the first few days were interesting. So we flew out on American American landed from Birmingham to Dallas Fort Worth. So we landed in Dallas with 20 minutes to make it to our next flight. And because of lightning they sat on the runway for 30 minutes so we missed our connecting flight. So they had to reschedule us for we had ended up five hour layover.

What did you do? Did you play games? You got something to eat? Of course, we all do that? Yeah. Vape in the bathroom? Oh, I'm sorry. You know, vaping allows I'd be in the 00 vaping where you you walk out and you inhale and then you just let it sit in your lungs for like a minute and then nothing comes out as great. I

did not do that. The so most of the time, and most of the time spent was trying to figure out okay, this this because what we did was we flew into Fresno and we stayed one night in Mariposa, which is real near to Yosemite. We stayed where we had one night, like stay at an inn in Mariposa. So I'm caught with vibrating

beds and shaped

my heart and the big, big hot tubs.

It smells kind of weird.

Don't don't bring the black light. Okay. So we I was I called them I'm like, Hey, we're gonna be late late check in and they were like, oh, have you not been reading the news? I'm like, what? They're like there's a big wildfire here. I was like, Oh crap. So the half of Mariposa was evacuated. Oh, wow. Oh no. The entrance to Yosemite from this from the west side was closed because of the wildfire and all this I'm like, Oh crap. So it ended up we got in and they were able to get the

thank you people. Yes do okay. Well, thank you all for boosting very nice. We have anonymous podcast guru user. I see that person a lot with 2112 Consider broadcasting I know agenda tube supports live splits and generates the feed for you. Why yes, that I could do that. But I want to use the booster gram ball feed and I see there's already some some good advice coming through. 777 from Macintosh and Macintosh Macintosh actually boosted twice 2100 and 777 to get the heart

the Dallas who's the show? Yeah,

it's it's the Jesus series. You haven't watched the chosen? I don't think so. What kind of freak Are you?

Substandard whenever daily so the chosen

they're now on Season Four it started season one and and I think they actually the this the original script or you know was at a Hollywood studio in Hollywood didn't want to produce it like now we want to do on a Jesus stuff. And it's it's literally the story of Jesus but it's done in a very modern way. You know, with just it's not like a hokey you know, low budget thing because what they did it they

Oh, that's that's a great so a

lot of people like there's no there's you see those 5000 people getting love getting loaves of bread and fish. Well, look, there's me and my kids.

Yeah, that's great. And it's

been very successful. Very successful. Oh, I

need to watch that. Yeah. Oh,

you remember what you gave me for Christmas? Yeah, the visual Bible. So it's like that only it's it's only about Jesus and and it's the production values are very high. So

it's 16 by nine instead of four by three VHS.

Yeah, amongst other things. We got many striper booths from Sam Sethi true fans 7777 Next week we launched true fans ball with one click account setup with wallet we did this for one click wallet top up and we think we've done it again with wallets so there's Sam Sam is thinking like the thinking about the listener. Hard Hat 7777 Remember to boost Yes, thank you once told Kyle 777 Hey, David Adam, I'm still not sure how this V for V alchemy works. But it sure is fun to run

there's something Dave. Yeah. Or or in the past I've also set up things that will shock collars. The shock. Yes. thing oh, I've also set up automated notices where it says, you know, everybody if your machine is on at three o'clock in the morning, you get a pop up the next day that says, hey, you left your machine if you do it again. Shut down.

I like shock collars better. Meaty tone wrecker? 3333. Boosting Dave sage advice of shut off of the machines when leaving the office. Macintosh 777 Thank you. No boost no Dred Scott 7777. He sent us a test boost. Great. And he sent us a pre shot boost. Got the bad signal via pod verse 2345. And I think that is Wait, no, I have no, that's probably on your list. Blueberry came in 14 hours ago. So why don't you take it from there, Dave? Yeah, I

got Eva. I'm starting out with some papers and I got Buzzsprout for 1000 bucks. With

blades on him. Paul. Thank you, brothers. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. Yeah, keeping us rollin. There's a month right there.

Thank you both. I appreciate that. And right behind them Oscar marry $200.

I'm gonna hate him to hold on a second. Shot call out 20 blades on him, Paul. Very nice. Thank you.

Did you Eric said his boost from Alby hub didn't go through.

Eric VP?

I don't see I don't know if I saw them in the

in when did he send it recently boost by?

I don't know. Maybe during the show? No. Mercy. Very fun in a minute. Oh, we got a ROB policeman. No note they sent us 24 $25

This sounds like someone new. I haven't heard of yeah, I've never

heard that name before.

defragmented. Brother. Thank you. Good call.

Good call. See Brooklyn. 112 gave us $20 Cisco podcasting.

Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you see Brooklyn. Appreciate that. See, we got some booths. Mr. Graham's

people didn't really booths much while while we were gone. We didn't deserve it. There's no value. We're no valuate Oh, man, we were laid off. We are valueless. Yeah.

Let's see. Let me make sure that I've got Yes Okay, so I'm gonna have to do this a little differently because comments from Blogger boosted long time ago. Okay, here we go. Yeah, anonymous. Podcast guru user is all over the place. Oh, Christian is unstoppable. May is amazing song 20 to 22 sets. Thank you.

Thank you. See.

Resort. This isn't working right. Okay, newest first. There we go. Hey, I got 17 776 through party through boosts. CLI says it has been set into motion. Coming soon. A boost. A boost double Mall. It'd be working with a new site headed up by a consignment shop and help turn the area into live streaming venues for live music comedians and artists. Hmm, that sounds cool. Yeah.

Interesting. Boost.

Double boost double Mall. Okay.

Good.

Yeah, you're you're crazy.

Weary as always.

Yeah. Todd from Northern Virginia 22 to 22 nice boost. He says sets on sale go podcast. I must have bought the dip.

Yeah, definitely. It's been a roller

coaster. The last couple of months has been nuts. Andrew grommet Hey, Andrew 2222 He's boosting the tune. He says boost

No, I can do that for you. Almost I can't where's my

wherever at? There we go. Oh, he's got the reply address reply key. Yeah, he's got everything in here. As you would expect, oh, Karen from mere mortals. 1111. Sasha Richards he says yep, we have strike in Australia for at least a year. Yeah.

Why is that only for at least a year? What's going on? I'm gonna have

it but have never used it for anything. The amount of apps I have downloaded after hearing it on here and then never used is pretty high. It happens. So Andrew coming in again. 2222 says Greenlight is super cool, but yeah, it looks like the fee payout from individual noncustodial wallets does not justify the liquidity lockup. Yeah, I look forward to checking out cashew. Yeah, yeah, it's just I mean, everybody's everybody who knows. It's just saying don't do it. No. Wish pod

Excellent. I'm glad I'm glad more of that, please. Yes.

Oh Clarkie. And this is my buddy. From up the road. He says he's boosting through fountain 5000 Sassy synesthete mint. E cash be a solution for multiple funding source meant something to keep an eye on something to keep your eye on.

It can all be in the options file.

Fitty mint e cash. S T. Interesting. Yeah, I guess. I guess Fetty meant I don't understand the difference between 30 Min. And cashew? I mean, the

Fetty men I think the fatty man is a bunch of people who create a mint together. Okay, but I'm I'm a little unclear on it myself.

I think one thing that makes people nervous about the minutes is that you can easily fractional reserve that thing.

Yes. Yes, that is an issue. You

would I don't see it being trustworthy at all, unless you have some sort of an attestation to balance what it

brought us to strike into the O auth. And so I'm grateful for that.

And that's and I still think it's I think I still think it's a feature thing. I mean, the only thing about cashyou is us talking to Alex about this earlier. It feels a little immature. I just don't sure that it's ready for Oh yeah. Oh

no, I think it's very immature at this point. Yeah,

I think in the future I could see mince being a thing by

the way. Bitcoin 67,002 79.

Lord what did it why did it jump? Tron?

Baby Trump. Trump crops on risk on risk on That's right.

Oh, and we got the delimiter call Mr. Blogger 28,000 SATs Nice. Thank you. Through fountain he says, remembers this from two weeks ago. He says howdy David Adam. Instead of the podcast this week in guns by Texans Ben and Jean, aka two good old boys Podcast. Today I'd like to recommend a good podcast about podcasting industry title in and around podcasting by Mark Asquith, Danny Brown and friends. To find it, please go to www.in and around podcasting.com or search

Thank you CSB. always appreciated man always appreciate. Thank you. Bunk.

I wonder if the doubt Mark Asquith knows that CSB paid to advertise his pledge. He

did. This is a beautiful thing he does. I really like it. It's good. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Any monthlies Oh, yeah, we

do. Thank you. I was it was sitting right in front of my face. Trevor, the Satan's lawyer. Five $5 from Down Under. Thank you had Pharaoh $20.22 Thank you, Brother Chad. Cameron Rose $25 Martin lindskog. $1 Brendon. apod page $25. Nice smart gram $1 Randall black $5. Joseph maraca $5. Emilio canto Molina $4 Mitch and Kreon over a pod verse 50 bucks. Thank you. Ah, beautiful. Basil fill up. $25 Thank you, basil. Lauren ball. $24.22 Excuse me. $24.20 Thank you, Lauren. Christopher

thank you all very much for supporting us value for value and keeps everything running. Dave and Adam don't do not take any of this home, we leave it in the bank to keep all of this running when we're long gone. Of course, the Bitcoin stays on the node, we've been opening up channels with people looking for alternate solutions going as sovereign, if you need to, if you need some liquidity hit us up. It's, it's crazy, you know, it's like they just open a million sat channel to Pete to

some thought. Think

about that for a second. Yeah, maybe 500,000 SATs will be enough. But it doesn't matter. We don't mind locking it all up. It's, it's all part of the service part. And including podcasts index is social, you get it all. If you get any value out of what we do, particularly the index, of course, which is

Yeah, yeah, I agree. But if, if we if we start putting if if app start using strike a lot more, do should we chant? Should we open a Fat Channel to strike?

We can.

I just, I just don't know. Who to contact over there. I don't know that we have any connection there. Maybe I can figure that out? By asking around at the conference or something? I mean, it seems like it would make the the liquidity better. Well, yeah.

I mean, the it was, of course, we opened a pipe, it's inbound for them. But a lot, a lot of their stuff will just stay internal. Who knows how they even you know, if you send from strike while to strike, while they may have their own ledger, for all I know, just

feels like if somebody's if somebody's listener, app listener wallet is in strike, and they're boosting to some somewhere else. Like, yeah, yeah. Or somebody's node?

I think it's, I think it's the courteous thing to do regardless.

Yeah, you would think so. Find out some more at the conference, we

can probably we can just find on one, one mL, whatever. Or M boss. Just find out what their nodes are and just open it up. I mean, I'm sure they have a minimum requirement, but we could open 10 million sets to them.

And no cash app at least at one time. When they first started doing lightning. They were really restrictive. Yeah, well of course couldn't you couldn't open a channel to them without basically without them knowing about it. Yeah. Well, I'm

happy I'm happy to do it. But we like being good neighbors.

We do good neighbor has really good no neighbors. All right. Beautiful.

Ha almost two hours on the nose. Brother Dave, thank you so much. Glad to have you black back and black. Glad to have Vanua Glad to have you here safely. And back in the boardroom. I really miss talking to you.

Yeah, me too. It was it was weird being like, it just becomes part of your life and you're like, Wait a second. I'm supposed to be doing something you are

now officially a podcaster. That's alright, everybody out there in the boardroom. Thank you very much for tuning in. We'll be back next Friday live here on podcasts and I know.

You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast in this Dicor. For more information, go podcast. Bring a snack